View Full Version : Trump, Great President Or The Greatest President?
We need a new thread for four years of what is bound to be one of the most divisive presidencies of all time. Here it is. Let the discussion begin.
I actually don't know how divisive it'll be. If he goes back on a lot of the things he said during the campaign (a near certainty), he might end up being pretty anodyne in practice. Not that this'll stop less thoughtful people from reacting to the rhetoric as if it were policy.
That, of course, was the whole problem: either he's serious about that stuff, in which case he's dangerous, or he's not, in which case he's purely symbolic and won't necessarily do the things his supporters are ostensibly supporting him for. The upside of that for critics is that, well, he won't necessarily do the things his supporters are ostensibly supporting him for.
Chypmunk
11-09-16, 11:47 AM
Nice unbiased thread title :D
Daniel M
11-09-16, 11:48 AM
His speech sounded slightly Keynesian when he talked about investment, I'm interested in hearing how he goes about that. He's always seemed slightly more middle ground on issues like that, healthcare too. But yeah, I think there's been an overreaction as to how much damage he could potentially do, people act as if he is free to do what he wants and that he will start WW3 tomorrow.
His speech sounded slightly Keynesian when he talked about investment, I'm interested in hearing how he goes about that.
Yeah, this is the worst thing for any real conservative: which party is the free market party now? Most Republicans still are, but the fact that they have to fight their own nominee on this is maddening, and since he's the most visible, this really muddies the intellectual waters for less informed voters. Same thing happened when Hoover ran as a free market type, didn't govern like one, and then the wrong side got the blame when the Depression hit simply because his rhetoric didn't match his policies.
Democracy works, in the long run, if and when people can clearly evaluate which ideas are working, or not, and why. A Republican with Keynesian economic policies really messes up that process.
But yeah, I think there's been an overreaction as to how much damage he could potentially do, people act as if he is free to do what he wants and that he will start WW3 tomorrow.People were also acting like Bernie Sanders could change Americas infrastructure too just by being elected. :rolleyes: Alot of fear & hate was used in this campaign, Trump just used it best.
Nothing left to do now but just wait and see.
So, let's talk some people off the ledge. There are silver linings here for Never Trump conservatives, and maybe even a few for liberals (though fewer for them, I admit).
So, for Never Trump conservatives, here are some good things to take away from the election:
1. No more Clintons. No more Hillary, no more Bill, and no Chelsea Clinton in 2032. Total repudiation of her, and, I think, an implied repudiation of their general style of politics.
2. The Supreme Court. Because this is what likely convinced many people who dislike Trump to vote for him anyway, it's one of the few things he gave people in writing, by submitting a list of judges he would consider appointing. This could be bad in the long run, because I think we may be in need of judicial reform, and this certainly slows that movement, but we'll get genuine textualists on the bench now (not that they always stay that way once appointed).
3. The Evolution of Media. The media is more decentralized, and this result suggests that the remaining centralized heights of it matter less and less. That's good, if a little tumultuous during the transition. Many of these outlets have been in slow decline for decades, and frankly, they deserve to be supplanted. And individual personalities, writing editorials and columns and the like, are going to have to take a good look in the mirror. And it's going to be very hard for even the remotely thoughtful ones to see this result and not conclude that they really are out of touch. Some will rationalize, but others will self-reflect and learn, and that's good.
4. Anti-Dynasty Sentiment. It's entirely possible that a lot of this was fueled by anti-dynastic sentiment at the thought of another Clinton in the White House. We'll never know, but it's possible the same thing would've happened in reverse if Jeb Bush were the nominee. Trump's a pretty awful vehicle for this sentiment, because he's at the "outsider" extreme, but it's something.
5. Progressives Rediscovering Checks and Balances. Republicans have been saying for eight years that Presidential power (and Federal power in general) needs to be reigned in. It'll be pretty gratifying watching Democrats come around to that line of thinking now that they've lost the Presidency. It's pretty depressing that it took someone unhinged to get them to come around on this, but I'll take what I can get.
For actual liberals, the list is shorter and less compelling, but there's a lot of overlap: you guys really are better off being done with the Clintons. You really are better off with executive power being checked, even if the change hurts your policy goals in the short term. And in the long-run a demand-side-friendly Republican might do more for their economic ideals than any success a Democrat might have with them (I cringed as I wrote that).
The media decentralization is more complicated. Moderate Democrats are probably better off in the long run, but it could be an unequivocally bad thing for those further left, because I think a lot of their current ideological movements have survived not on genuine consensus or strength of argument, but on what's essentially a media shame apparatus.
Daniel M
11-09-16, 12:31 PM
1 and 4 will appeal to the left. It's a win for those against globalisation and corporate interests, for people who are opposed to deals like NAFTA and TPP. For a lot of the left, the embrace of people like Bill Clinton and Tony Blair was a step backwards as it did more to benefit special interests rather than the electorate.
Citizen Rules
11-09-16, 12:37 PM
Nice unbiased thread title :D I think Sean just got himself a Trump tattoo.;)
rauldc14
11-09-16, 12:38 PM
Well, good thing everything has to be passed through the house. I think a lot of Trump's own party would disagree with his ways.
I think Sean just got himself a Trump tattoo.;)
I'm all trumped up. Get it?
Well, good thing everything has to be passed through the house. I think a lot of Trump's own party would disagree with his ways.
I genuinely have no idea what his economic plans are going to look like after he works with Congress. Paul Ryan's a lot more capable, I think, and I think exit polling suggests there is way less support for most of Trump's signature policies than he's going to believe after this result, so I'd like to think Ryan mostly pulls him back on the trade front. But who knows.
This is assuming Ryan remains Speaker, of course. But again, I think Trump has less clout than his supporters imagine.
I'm all trumped up. Get it?
Hillary Clinton thinks this is a great joke. "Trumped up trickle-down economics." I can't believe that zinger didn't work!
Captain Steel
11-09-16, 02:27 PM
Nice unbiased thread title :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RlbYMVlq3k
We’ve now elected a president with absolutely no experience and no qualifications. But I’m sure it’ll all work out. What could possibly go wrong? :rolleyes:
I'm sure he'll run our country better than he did his airline or his casinos, right?
You know that video of Hillary getting dizzy and the Secret Service having to prop her up? That's what Congressional Republicans are going to have to do with Trump.
Sexy Celebrity
11-09-16, 06:08 PM
I wonder if Hillary was dizzy again last night.
honeykid
11-09-16, 06:15 PM
Hillary Clinton thinks this is a great joke. "Trumped up trickle-down economics." I can't believe that zinger didn't work!
I still find it funny that you've voted for President Fart. Sorry, but that just isn't going to get old for me. :D
I still find it funny that you've voted for President Fart. Sorry, but that just isn't going to get old for me. :D
I'm probably being dense, but I have no idea what this is in reference to.
Sexy Celebrity
11-09-16, 06:22 PM
President Bush?
Captain Steel
11-09-16, 06:24 PM
I'm probably being dense, but I have no idea what this is in reference to.
You mean you didn't write in "President Fart"?
Oh, that's right... you already said you wrote in McMullen.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/49/ba/f3/49baf320453dd3ce2cee3921d6aa4664.jpg
https://media.makeameme.org/created/sit-down-sit-3qklra.jpg
http://www.dailystormer.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Trumpwalls.png
https://cdn.meme.am/instances/59795573.jpg
honeykid
11-09-16, 06:29 PM
I'm probably being dense, but I have no idea what this is in reference to.
You're not being dense. Over here "trump" is slang for farting. Therefore, to trump is to fart. Hence, President Fart. It's all I hear everytime someone says his name. Always has been. It was funny enough when he wrote on everything he owned or promoted, but putting President before it is just wonderful.
Sexy Celebrity
11-09-16, 06:31 PM
Yoda didn't vote for Trump.
I voted for Trump, though.
Captain Steel
11-09-16, 06:32 PM
You're not being dense. Over here "trump" is slang for farting. Therefore, to trump is to fart. Hence, President Fart. It's all I hear everytime someone says his name. Always has been. It was funny enough when he wrote on everything he owned or promoted, but putting President before it is just wonderful.
You Belgians and your weird sayings! ;)
urkillinmesmalls
11-09-16, 06:38 PM
I voted third party, but I knew it wouldn't work, so I still rooted for Trump during the voting.
matt72582
11-09-16, 07:05 PM
His speech sounded slightly Keynesian when he talked about investment, I'm interested in hearing how he goes about that. He's always seemed slightly more middle ground on issues like that, healthcare too. But yeah, I think there's been an overreaction as to how much damage he could potentially do, people act as if he is free to do what he wants and that he will start WW3 tomorrow.
It keeps people tuned into the commercials.. Media has only one bias - financial.
In the beginning when he ran, there was talk of a new reality show if he won the White House.
:yup:
murica'
Citizen Rules
11-09-16, 07:13 PM
It keeps people tuned into the commercials.. Media has only one bias - financial.
Lust for money and power is the root of all evil.
So , I think there are a few of us pro-conservative anti-Trump types on the board. I told Yoda earlier today my take away from the election is that I hope to see a cabinet full of faces I would have voted for. I hold out hope Trump will tone it down and take some advice through these four years. Does anyone have a cabinet wish list?
So , I think there are a few of us pro-conservative anti-Trump types on the board. I told Yoda earlier today my take away from the election is that I hope to see a cabinet full of faces I would have voted for. I hold out hope Trump will tone it down and take some advice through these four years. Does anyone have a cabinet wish list?
Not trying to be repetitive or glib, but sound wise people not like him. I think Yoda is right where suddenly the Republicans went from a sure loser to now are fully in office, in control of it all...................except theres this one little problem! :laugh: Hopefully he will listen to them and not go full-Sarah Palin
Trumps made himself a very wealthy man surrounding himself with great talent to do it for him. I hope he chooses wisely. He is able to do that, I think.
Citizen Rules
11-09-16, 09:12 PM
So , I think there are a few of us pro-conservative anti-Trump types on the board. I told Yoda earlier today my take away from the election is that I hope to see a cabinet full of faces I would have voted for. I hold out hope Trump will tone it down and take some advice through these four years. Does anyone have a cabinet wish list?
It's a good question, Sean...I wish I was more astute about politics to answer, but I'm not. If the conversation comes around to: what issues do we want Trump to take on (and which ones do we hope he will leave alone), then I can add my two cents.
Cobpyth
11-09-16, 09:27 PM
Just noticed this thread. I'm going to quote what I said in the election thread, because it fits better in here:
This is going to sound extremely odd to some people and it's perhaps not entirely believable coming from a young white male (who undoubtedly lives inside his own bubble of perception), but I sincerely believe that Trump has a better chance of unifying America and perhaps even the world than Hillary.
The right and the far left would've never stood behind her. It was basically impossible for her from the beginning to become a unifying president because of people's firm perceptions of her.
I don't really have any proof for this, but my feeling is that people will be more willing to give Trump a chance to unify them if he actually starts acting as a sensible and inclusive president. He's said a lot of horrible stuff in the past of course and his reputation may very well already be beyond saving, but something tells me that he still has that small opportunity to surprise everyone in that regard.
Citizen Rules
11-09-16, 09:36 PM
Originally Posted by Cobpyth (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=1605134#post1605134)
This is going to sound extremely odd to some people and it's perhaps not entirely believable coming from a young white male (who undoubtedly lives inside his own bubble of perception), but I sincerely believe that Trump has a better chance of unifying America and perhaps even the world than Hillary.Unifying the world? No disrespect intended but that sounds more like your own desire, than anything else. A lot of young people seem to think that way...one people, one planet, open borders. I'm not knocking that, but that is so opposite of the direction America is heading, especially with Trump at the helm.
The right and the far left would've never stood behind her. It was basically impossible for her from the beginning to become a unifying president because of people's firm perceptions of her. I agree with this.
I don't really have any proof for this, but my feeling is that people will be more willing to give Trump a chance to unify them if he actually starts acting as a sensible and inclusive president. He's said a lot of horrible stuff in the past of course and his reputation may very well already be beyond saving, but something tells me that he still has that small opportunity to surprise everyone in that regard. That's wishful thinking. I'm old enough to know people don't change their core behavior. Trump's personality and the way he handles himself will not be changing.
Guaporense
11-09-16, 10:18 PM
Trump is going to be for US what Hugo Chaves was for Venezuela.
Although I doubt he will go that far. The US has stronger democratic institutions that block his dictatorial aspirations. In greater probability will be pretty much like a populist Latin American Banana Republic President. Although I wonder how far he would go for the wall, which would be tremendously unpopular worldwide.
And no, don't expect a free market conservative a la Romney. Trump is a fascist style populist in line with people like Franco, Mussolini and Getulio Vargas. His policy objectives also sound very much like LA I import substitution industrialisation policies of the 1960's. He will not have a free market conservative cabinet, in fact the economic advisers working for him will be the worst kind of crackpots. There is potential for severe economic damage in his proposals although I doubt Trump is stupid enough to go through his most moronic policies.
Tyler Cowen did some analysis of Trump's possible policies:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-11-09/deciphering-trumponomics-chapter-one
Although I think he is very optimistic there.
Ange1e4e5
11-09-16, 10:49 PM
We don't know yet.
Sexy Celebrity
11-09-16, 10:59 PM
http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=27759&stc=1&d=1478746740
I'm having a hard time telling when those stop being paintings and start being photographs.
Guaporense
11-10-16, 01:26 AM
Kennedy looks like a painting
rambond
11-10-16, 01:28 AM
i know him from the amount of jokes they say about him in movies...
donniedarko
11-10-16, 02:24 AM
So , I think there are a few of us pro-conservative anti-Trump types on the board. I told Yoda earlier today my take away from the election is that I hope to see a cabinet full of faces I would have voted for. I hold out hope Trump will tone it down and take some advice through these four years. Does anyone have a cabinet wish list?
Sessions will hopefully have a big seat.
As little of Christie as possible
I'm having a hard time telling when those stop being paintings and start being photographs.
One seems photo shopped in, but I can't be sure.
earlsmoviepicks
11-10-16, 07:38 AM
This will be entertaining to say the least
great presidents are made when wars foisted upon the nation are won --like first iraq war or both world wars etc .
NextScorsese
11-10-16, 09:07 AM
https://bokhuset.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/going_to_die_indiana_jones.gif
First sign we're gonna get about what kind of administration Trump might have will be his cabinet choices.
There's a rumor floating around that he might tap Bobby Jindal for Health and Human Services Secretary. If he does, that'd be a great sign. I was literally saying to my brother a few weeks ago that that's exactly where he should be, though I was thinking it would happen in some later Republican administration.
Don't know if it'll happen, but it would be pretty reassuring if it did.
I've been hearing Palin for Secratary of the Interior and either Guilliani or Gingrich for Sec of State. No idea where these rumours are coming from though, just peoples guesses i suppose. When does the Administration start getting announced, usually December i guess?
I'm not sure what the normal timetable is, but whatever it is I wouldn't assume Trump would necessarily mirror it. But sooner rather than later, for sure.
Of the three you mentioned, Gingrich is the only one I wouldn't cringe at. But I don't think as much of him these days, either. I'd really like to see Trump tap other Jindal types: that is, Republicans who maybe aren't gifted politicians, but still rose through sheer competence, and have probably hit their ceiling (which means mostly former Governors, who figure to be better administrators than Senators, in general, too).
But yeah, Jindal at HHS is pretty much the best fit I can possibly imagine, so here's hoping.
FromBeyond
11-10-16, 01:31 PM
I actually don't know how divisive it'll be. If he goes back on a lot of the things he said during the campaign (a near certainty), he might end up being pretty anodyne in practice. Not that this'll stop less thoughtful people from reacting to the rhetoric as if it were policy.
That, of course, was the whole problem: either he's serious about that stuff, in which case he's dangerous, or he's not, in which case he's purely symbolic and won't necessarily do the things his supporters are ostensibly supporting him for. The upside of that for critics is that, well, he won't necessarily do the things his supporters are ostensibly supporting him for.
This is pretty much what I have been thinking, I mean Hilary has already gone from being a criminal who belongs in prison to one we owe a debt of gratitude! is this a new moderate Trump, will he follow through with his pledges now the fight is over. Who on earth will pay for that wall. Either way, a lot of people are going to be disappointed and the joke is over.
Yeah, that was hysterical. She's totally corrupt and we need to "lock her up," but we also owe her a debt of gratitude. What the what?
The cognitive dissonance floating around this dude is something to behold.
Sexy Celebrity
11-10-16, 06:51 PM
I still can't believe all of this is really happening. In a great way, of course. I can't believe Donald Trump, who only a couple of years ago was fighting over Barack Obama's birth certificate and the whole thing.... just met with Barack Obama because he's going to be THE NEXT PRESIDENT LIVING IN THE WHITE HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!
I feel like I'm watching that final season of Roseanne where they won the lottery and became rich. Which turned out to basically all be a dream.
Daniel M
11-10-16, 06:53 PM
https://i.gyazo.com/a87abad0a00b69752b911b2dfe95c1b4.png
Captain Steel
11-10-16, 10:34 PM
Yeah, that was hysterical. She's totally corrupt and we need to "lock her up," but we also owe her a debt of gratitude. What the what?
The cognitive dissonance floating around this dude is something to behold.
Cognitive dissonance maybe, but it's par for the course in politics.
They all go for the throats during the debates and then are all congratulatory afterwards - it's kind of a tradition, just like former Presidents are supposed to keep quiet about criticisms of current Presidents. Our even the tradition Obama recently spoke about: having to do with the peaceful transition of power.
We saw this even earlier where some of Trump's opponents pretty much called him a monster, then once he became the nominee, endorsed him (some more reluctantly than others).
It's kind of like sports events where teams practically try to kill their opponents, but then they all line up at the end and shake hands. Or boxers who literally try to smash their opponent's brain into concussion, then hug each other afterwards and tell everyone how "great" the other guy is.
https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/797077649193574400
I'm going to have to avoid saying "I told you so" too often over the next four years, because if I don't those particular keys are going to wear out.
Hopefully theyre the right people for the job.
See! I just supported my President. :yup:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/420450-schiff-trump-may-face-real-prospect-of-jail-time%3famp
LOL! Yeah right! Only in a perfect world.
My hint as to who I hope our next president will be.....
"Help us Obi Wan Joe Biden, you're our only hope!"
Didn't realize this was still open after closing the other one. Same deal here.
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