Happy Halloween! SJW's are whining about 'cultural appropriation'...

[DAnconiaLead]

Apparently, it is now a 'Halloween/October Tradition' for SJW's to whine about something they call 'Cultural Appropriation' every October (I've posted two articles below and there are many, many more such articles).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/parenting/wp/2016/10/10/cultural-misappropriation-and-my-daughters-halloween-costume/#comments

https://www.bustle.com/articles/160328-how-cultural-appropriation-hurts-us-all

However, before examining their arguments (which are universally stupid and nonsensical), it is necessary to ask; 'Is it possible to "appropriate" a culture'???

(The short answer is; NO)

When used as a verb (which it appears to be in this case), the term 'appropriate' means to; "verb əˈprōprēˌāt/ take (something) for one's own use, without the owner's permission." Since it is impossible to "take" a person's culture by using elements (such as traditions, food, art, manner-of-dress, etc.) from that culture, it is therefore impossible to "appropriate" a culture.

For example;

If a commercial-driver of Mexican ethnicity (and possibly nationality) and myself, who is mostly of Scotch-Irish descent, both receive loads going from Ontario, California to Ontario, Canada, both realize that we don't have enough cold weather clothing, and he purchases a Scotch-Irish sweater, while I purchase a wool poncho (I actually own several), neither of us has "taken" the other's culture since he is still free to purchase as many traditional Mexican ponchos as he desires and I am still free to purchase as many traditional Scotch-Irish sweaters as I desire. In short, the ability of neither party to enjoy a culture, in whole or in part, has been diminished by the fact that others use elements of that culture. The same holds true for art, language, culinary traditions, etc. If a person of Mexican descent makes corned-beef and a person of Scotch-Irish descent makes a burrito, neither the Mexican nor the Scotch-Irishman has been prevented from making their ethnicities "traditional/cultural dish" then, or in the future...

As a matter of fact, the more people use the physical elements of a culture, the less-expensive it should be for the ethnic members of that culture (and everyone else) to purchase the same items due to economy of scale. If only true 'native-Americans' were permitted to purchase buck-skin jackets, the small market would make it inefficient to produce these on an industrial-scale and they would be very expensive. Instead, myself and many other non-Natives own buck-skin jackets, expanding the market for these items, making it worthwhile to produce them on an industrial-scale, and therefore, making them less-expensive for true Native-Americans to purchase as well.

Also, cultural "borrowing" usually (as in "almost-always") goes both ways, illustrated by the fact that the same Native American who sold me the jacket was wearing jeans, which were invented by Jacob W. Davis and Levi Strauss, a pair of (very) White men...

It doesn't make any difference if the Mexican driver wears his sweater, the Native American merchant wears his jeans, or I wear my poncho on October 31, or any other day....

[Yoda]

Unless/until you demonstrate thoughtfulness and responsiveness on the topics you preach about, nobody's going to give a crap about these rants. Even people like myself who might be inclined to agree with them.

[DAnconiaLead]

Unless/until you demonstrate thoughtfulness and responsiveness on the topics you preach about, nobody's going to give a crap about these rants. Even people like myself who might be inclined to agree with them.

How do my multiple examples NOT "demonstrate thoughtfulness and responsiveness on the topics (I) (philosophize) about"???


Did you actually read what I wrote?


I mean; 'Read what I wrote, did you???'

[TONGO]

Apparently, it is now a 'Halloween/October Tradition' for SJW's to whine about something they call 'Cultural Appropriation' every October (I've posted two articles below and there are many, many more such articles).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/parenting/wp/2016/10/10/cultural-misappropriation-and-my-daughters-halloween-costume/#comments

https://www.bustle.com/articles/160328-how-cultural-appropriation-hurts-us-all

However, before examining their arguments (which are universally stupid and nonsensical), it is necessary to ask; 'Is it possible to "appropriate" a culture'???

(The short answer is; NO)

When used as a verb (which it appears to be in this case), the term 'appropriate' means to; "verb əˈprōprēˌāt/ take (something) for one's own use, without the owner's permission." Since it is impossible to "take" a person's culture by using elements (such as traditions, food, art, manner-of-dress, etc.) from that culture, it is therefore impossible to "appropriate" a culture.

For example;

If a commercial-driver of Mexican ethnicity (and possibly nationality) and myself, who is mostly of Scotch-Irish descent, both receive loads going from Ontario, California to Ontario, Canada, both realize that we don't have enough cold weather clothing, and he purchases a Scotch-Irish sweater, while I purchase a wool poncho (I actually own several), neither of us has "taken" the other's culture since he is still free to purchase as many traditional Mexican ponchos as he desires and I am still free to purchase as many traditional Scotch-Irish sweaters as I desire. In short, the ability of neither party to enjoy a culture, in whole or in part, has been diminished by the fact that others use elements of that culture. The same holds true for art, language, culinary traditions, etc. If a person of Mexican descent makes corned-beef and a person of Scotch-Irish descent makes a burrito, neither the Mexican nor the Scotch-Irishman has been prevented from making their ethnicities "traditional/cultural dish" then, or in the future...

As a matter of fact, the more people use the physical elements of a culture, the less-expensive it should be for the ethnic members of that culture (and everyone else) to purchase the same items due to economy of scale. If only true 'native-Americans' were permitted to purchase buck-skin jackets, the small market would make it inefficient to produce these on an industrial-scale and they would be very expensive. Instead, myself and many other non-Natives own buck-skin jackets, expanding the market for these items, making it worthwhile to produce them on an industrial-scale, and therefore, making them less-expensive for true Native-Americans to purchase as well.

Also, cultural "borrowing" usually (as in "almost-always") goes both ways, illustrated by the fact that the same Native American who sold me the jacket was wearing jeans, which were invented by Jacob W. Davis and Levi Strauss, a pair of (very) White men...

It doesn't make any difference if the Mexican driver wears his sweater, the Native American merchant wears his jeans, or I wear my poncho on October 31, or any other day....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXU3VexbRs0

[Yoda]

How do my multiple examples NOT "demonstrate thoughtfulness and responsiveness on the topics (I) (philosophize) about"???
Well, first, "responsiveness" cannot, by definition, be demonstrated in the initial post. It's demonstrated (or not) based on how you acknowledge or engage with replies and/or criticism. And in the past, you've basically completely refused to do so. You also have a history of posting lots of incendiary, easily-refuted nonsense.

So while I don't have much in the way of criticism about this particular thread (though the "whining" in the title is unnecessary), I'm not holding out a lot of hope that this'll be much different than anything else you've posted if anyone replies to it seriously.

[DAnconiaLead]

So while I don't have much in the way of criticism about this particular thread (though the "whining" in the title is unnecessary),



Nearly every 'argument' put forth by SJW's centers around the fact that they are "offended" by something.


Stephen Fry has assessed 'arguments' that are built upon personal offense and has correctly concluded that they are "nothing more then a whine"...


“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.'"
Therefore, I would have to say that "whining" is an accurate description of every 'argument' spewed forth by the SJW movement since all their 'arguments' are based on claims of 'personal offense' by very "sensitive" (thin-skinned) individuals...

https://grrrgraphics.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/crybullies_ben_garrison.jpg

[TONGO]

:babbling::babbling::babbling::babbling::babbling::babbling::babbling::babbling::babbling::babbling:

[mark f]

Isn't this thread just a whine?

[Yoda]

See? I answered your question directly, and you chose to respond only to a largely meaningless aside about whether the word "whining" was called for, ignoring the actual point. Thanks for providing a perfect demonstration of what I was talking about.

[Omnizoa]

Well, first, "responsiveness" cannot, by definition, be demonstrated in the initial post. It's demonstrated (or not) based on how you acknowledge or engage with replies and/or criticism. And in the past, you've basically completely refused to do so.Nearly every 'argument' put forth by SJW's centers around the fact that they are "offended" by something.
Case in point.

Stephen Fry
Leave Stephen Fry out of this.

[Tacitus]

Using the term 'SJW' in 2016 without a hint of irony and expecting meaningful discourse?

[TONGO]

All I have to say is, my Damon Wayans video was spot-on and should have gotten some reps. Now thats the real travesty going on here! :yup:

[matt72582]

I had to look up "SJW" - I'm guessing others didn't know but wouldn't ask. It means "Social Justice Warrior".

It's not a good sign when "justice" isn't considered a positive thing. I'm sure the image or person in your head isn't a good one, but no one is perfect, but if someone does good, let them wear their dreadlocks, even if what they do is pretentious. It's better than being pretentious and being a fan of injustice.

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

I think Yoda hangs out with some very trendy and liberal people. He tends to dismiss right-wing views too quickly, and spouts his analytical bile to deflect the issue. I wouldn't class him as an SJW (he's not stupid), but he meets the description of a hipster, could be transgender or bisexual as well.

[Frightened Inmate No. 2]

https://media.giphy.com/media/fDO2Nk0ImzvvW/giphy.gif

[The Gunslinger45]

But Yoda is a conservative and has been in many an endless debate debating and promoting conservative views in said debates. I think he is more upset about the delivery of this message.

[Captain Steel]

If trick-or-treaters come onto my porch, is it then considered a "safe space"?

If a child wears an ISIS costume and I see it, should I say something?

I know no one hands out apples anymore, but was a single razor blade EVER found inside one that was given out on Halloween?

[Friendly Mushroom!]

If trick-or-treaters come onto my porch, is it then considered a "safe space"?

If a child wears an ISIS costume and I see it, should I say something?

I know no one hands out apples anymore, but was a single razor blade EVER found inside one that was given out on Halloween?

I remember a local story from years ago when arsenic or something similar was found in a Halloween bag. The kids didn't die fortunately, but still it happened at least once in the Cleveland area once in my life.

[The Gunslinger45]

But as to the OP's post, yes the article I read is ridiculous. Cultural appropriation is a silly idea, and there are people in this world that just can't lighten up and see something at face value. Not everything is some sort of slight to a social minority. People who try and find imaginary racism, sexism, homophobia, species-ism, or whatever in every word, phrase, work of art, etc need to get a life. Halloween costumes are just that. Costumes. You don't like the costume don't buy it. But don't try and spoil the fun for other people.

There i summarized the op's post. Sweet and simple.

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

But Yoda is a conservative.:laugh:

[Yoda]

But Yoda is a conservative and has been in many an endless debate debating and promoting conservative views in said debates. I think he is more upset about the delivery of this message.
He's talking in code. When he says "conservative" he means "hates Jews."

[The Gunslinger45]

He's talking in code. When he says "conservative" he means "hates Jews."

Gotcha.

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

But Yoda is a conservative and has been in many an endless debate debating and promoting conservative views in said debates. I think he is more upset about the delivery of this message.
He's talking in code. When he says "conservative" he means "hates Jews."
And the mud-slinging Hillary supporter shows his true colours.

[Captain Steel]

Off-topic, but one thing I've learned: never hold the bowl of candy out to a group of kids. You have to distribute the candy, but to hold the bowl out to a group of 4 or 5 leaves you with a nearly empty bowl. There is little political correctness among a horde or trick-or-treaters.

[The Gunslinger45]

Off-topic, but one thing I've learned never hold the bowl of candy out to a group of kids. You have to distribute the candy, but to hold the bowl out to a group of 4 or 5 leaves you with a nearly empty bowl. There is little political correctness among a horde or trick-or-treaters.

And don't even think of leaving a bowl and go by the honor system. Unless you are in the bushes with a paintball gun. :D There is no honor among trick or treaters either.

[Captain Steel]

On topic...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rIM9fPCTAs

[Yoda]

And the mud-slinging Hillary supporter shows his true colours.
It's not mudslinging if it's true. And get out of here with that weak false dichotomy.

[DAnconiaLead]

It's not a good sign when "justice" isn't considered a positive thing.



Merely because an organization or group has the word 'justice' in their name does not mean that they are actually working towards "justice" or that they are 'good' in any way. Taken out of context, even things like the 'Final Solution' sounds like a great thing because, after all, who wants a 'temporary solution'???


Continuing along those lines, there's actually an online game entitled 'StormFront or SJW' in which one player strips away all direct references to race/sex/gender in statements made on SJW boards, which received high ratings from other members (aka. other SJW's), and statements made on The StormFront Neo-Nazi message board that received high-ratings from the other board-members (aka. fellow Nazis), and the other players attempt to guess which statements were made on 'StormFront', and which were made on an SJW board.


Since a sizable percentage of SJW's express just as much hatred and bigotry towards 'Cisgender White Males' as Neo-Nazis do towards Jews, etc. and propose many of the same 'solutions' (including 'ovens'), this is a very difficult game;


Here's a video of someone playing 'StormFront or SJW' below...


If you choose to play along, please post your score;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-ZX5V4Qft4

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

You just posted a swastika! After Yoda wipes the spit off his bottom, I predict a week ban for you.

[The Gunslinger45]

On topic...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rIM9fPCTAs

Remember when MTV was cool? It had to have been over a decade ago. The Gunslinger remembers. Remember when MTV played music videos? Gunslinger remembers.

Remember when some of their biggest shows included Bevis and Butthead and Celebrity Deathmatch?

The Gunslinger remembers. RIP MTV. You suck now.

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

https://youtu.be/VuXNMkBJbNg

Saves me typing.

[Yoda]

Aaaaand we're done here.

[Captain Steel]

Captain Steel likes when other posters refer to themselves in the 3rd person!

[The Gunslinger45]

Oh and Daria! That was a great show. WTF happened MTV?

[Omnizoa]

On topic...
That guy's increasingly annoying to listen to.

[DAnconiaLead]

Oh and Daria! That was a great show. WTF happened MTV?

Two Words; Laci Green

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h19ruIfrWjM
(Above is Laci Green's SJW attack on Halloween; featured on MTV)

[The Gunslinger45]

Two Words; Laci Green


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h19ruIfrWjM
(Above is Laci Green's attack on Halloween; featured on MTV)

I would have gone with reality TV, but yeah that works too.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Oh no. My Sci-Fi Slob is banned.

[earlsmoviepicks]

Off-topic, but one thing I've learned: never hold the bowl of candy out to a group of kids. You have to distribute the candy, but to hold the bowl out to a group of 4 or 5 leaves you with a nearly empty bowl. There is little political correctness among a horde or trick-or-treaters.

if you really want to have fun, hold up the entire bag of candy and tell them to fight each other for it--kid left standing gets the entire bag. not really ethical, safe or politically correct, but your Halloween night will be more entertaining

[DAnconiaLead]

if you really want to have fun, hold up the entire bag of candy and tell them to fight each other for it--kid left standing gets the entire bag. not really ethical, safe or politically correct, but your Halloween night will be more entertaining



In an aside; I used to freeze paintballs prior to 'Mischief Night' (the day after Halloween) and then lay in a hide in or around my parents property, wearing a ghillie suit to 'snipe' the egg throwers....


There are few things more fun then watching a frozen paintball shatter an egg-throwers entire carton...except for when I hit one of them in the chest with a slightly de-frosted red paint-ball and he moaned/screamed as though he thought he was dying :D


Great childhood memories!!!

[Captain Steel]

Isn't "Mischief Night" the day before Halloween? (basically Halloween Eve?)

[Iroquois]

However, before examining their arguments (which are universally stupid and nonsensical), it is necessary to ask; 'Is it possible to "appropriate" a culture'???

(The short answer is; NO)

See, when you start off by saying that any arguments that run counter to your perspective are "universally stupid and nonsensical", how on Earth do you expect there to be any kind of reasonable discussion or anything of that sort?

Nearly every 'argument' put forth by SJW's centers around the fact that they are "offended" by something.


Stephen Fry has assessed 'arguments' that are built upon personal offense and has correctly concluded that they are "nothing more then a whine"...


“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.'"
Therefore, I would have to say that "whining" is an accurate description of every 'argument' spewed forth by the SJW movement since all their 'arguments' are based on claims of 'personal offense' by very "sensitive" (thin-skinned) individuals...

If I had a dollar for every time an anti-SJW type quoted the words of an openly gay man with mental illness in order to justify being offensive...

But as to the OP's post, yes the article I read is ridiculous. Cultural appropriation is a silly idea, and there are people in this world that just can't lighten up and see something at face value. Not everything is some sort of slight to a social minority. People who try and find imaginary racism, sexism, homophobia, species-ism, or whatever in every word, phrase, work of art, etc need to get a life. Halloween costumes are just that. Costumes. You don't like the costume don't buy it. But don't try and spoil the fun for other people.

There i summarized the op's post. Sweet and simple.

Just because "not everything" is some sort of slight doesn't mean that this particular thing isn't. I'm also not sure how the "if you don't like it, don't do it" thing applies when it's quite obvious that the only people doing it are the ones who do like it, don't understand the problem, or just don't care. I can understand the complaints - looking up "sexist halloween costumes" on Google does yield some especially absurd results as the female versions of character costumes are mangled in order to make the wearers look "sexy", and that's without going into those that would count as racist. There were even people who would dress up as Trayvon Martin complete with blackface and blood-soaked hoodies. That's without counting the ways in which the sexism and racism overlap - a "sexy Indian" costume really doesn't look good considering America's history of rape and genocide against Native Americans. At this point, it stops being "just a costume" and actually does start being a cog in an oppressive machine - you may be able to afford to shrug it off, but you cannot presume that everyone can do the same.

On topic...

What a headache, especially one that skims over how the Confederate flag does have racist connotations that would make dressing up your kid as a Confederate officer very questionable.

Remember when MTV was cool? It had to have been over a decade ago. The Gunslinger remembers. Remember when MTV played music videos? Gunslinger remembers.

Remember when some of their biggest shows included Bevis and Butthead and Celebrity Deathmatch?

The Gunslinger remembers. RIP MTV. You suck now.

This is the worst Cormac McCarthy impression I've ever seen.

Oh and Daria! That was a great show. WTF happened MTV?

Odd pick considering how Daria has a strong liberal bent.

That guy's increasingly annoying to listen to.

He's like a Bizarro John Oliver.

In an aside; I used to freeze paintballs prior to 'Mischief Night' (the day after Halloween) and then lay in a hide in or around my parents property, wearing a ghillie suit to 'snipe' the egg throwers....


There are few things more fun then watching a frozen paintball shatter an egg-throwers entire carton...except for when I hit one of them in the chest with a slightly de-frosted red paint-ball and he moaned/screamed as though he thought he was dying :D


Great childhood memories!!!

Jesus.

[The Gunslinger45]

Odd pick considering how Daria has a strong liberal bent.

It was a good show. An engaging lead, good characters, good writing, and I really enjoyed the musical episode. Not seeing what is so odd with me liking the show, but whatever bro. :shrug:

[Iroquois]

It seems a little at odds with the views you've expressed in this thread.

[Camo]

Do people only watch shows that line up with their views?

[The Gunslinger45]

I think someone complaining about Halloween costumes is silly and how MTV sucks now a days and that means I can't enjoy a cartoon about a uber cynical teenager and the life she inhabits?

[TONGO]

It seems a little at odds with the views you've expressed in this thread.
Oh let him like Daria if he likes Daria! What the hell man? :laugh: I can see calling the show bad if you dont like it, but dont waste your time trying to deprogram him from it. :nope:

[The Gunslinger45]

Hey I ain't PC, but good TV is good TV.

[TONGO]

Hey I ain't PC, but good TV is good TV.

This thread.........

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/dc/dcedf16fc31ba0c7d65eca8f87102df1960a6403c8f8a1a11f6c1010c898f622.jpg

[Omnizoa]

He's like a Bizarro John Oliver.
I stumbled upon his videos one day and began watching them since I had entered them through one of these sorts of topics where he was making long overdue and agreeable points.

Then I realized he's just got this permanent exasperated tone all the time and it gave me the distinct impression that he's not the sort of person who's open to having his views challenged.

[The Gunslinger45]

This thread.........

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/dc/dcedf16fc31ba0c7d65eca8f87102df1960a6403c8f8a1a11f6c1010c898f622.jpg

Oppression my ass. :lol:

EDIT: Dammit Tongo you edited your post before I could quote it!

[Captain Steel]

It seems a little at odds with the views you've expressed in this thread.

I'm not attacking you, but there's this idea that people fit into categories or boxes and cannot (or should not) go beyond the borders of the label that others assign them.

The reason I'm "independent" in every respect is I've always had a problem with this concept. I'm so diverse in my own mind that I sometimes confuse myself - my inner monologue is like eight different people arguing as I try to consider, analyze and process multiple perspectives.

Most people are very complicated and their personalities & characters are made up of a whole bunch of lifetime influences, interests & perspectives (sometimes conflicting ones).

I remember studying this psychology program that was supposed to help you in business by figuring out how to classify people (and thus how to respond to or treat them). It had codes outlined that you'd create based on other's personality traits. You could examine yourself (a somewhat subjective process) to come up with your own code.
What it came down to was that there were only about 10 or so different types of people as everyone had to fit into one of the codes. I read the whole book and tried to do the exercises, but after a while I realized this was all B.S.
People don't easily fit into types or codes - and if they do, the codes are probably about as expansive as those that DNA helices come up with. People are often as dualistic as they are cohesive.

[TONGO]

Oppression my ass. :lol:

EDIT: Dammit Tongo you edited your post before I could quote it!
The Daria oppresion comment wasnt what I was worried about, it was the reference to someone getting the boot in this devil thread.

[The Gunslinger45]

The Daria oppresion comment wasnt what I was worried about, it was the reference to someone getting the boot in this devil thread.

Fair enough. ;)

[Iroquois]

Do people only watch shows that line up with their views?

It wouldn't surprise me, but it appears that that isn't the case.

I think someone complaining about Halloween costumes is silly and how MTV sucks now a days and that means I can't enjoy a cartoon about a uber cynical teenager and the life she inhabits?

So you think real-life people criticising a flawed institution is silly but like a cartoon about a teen whose mission statement is criticising flawed institutions?

As for the MTV thing, for your consideration...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ysyZF-DZFY

Oh let him like Daria if he likes Daria! What the hell man? :laugh: I can see calling the show bad if you dont like it, but dont waste your time trying to deprogram him from it. :nope:

Who said anything about deprogramming? I was merely curious as to why it is so.

Hey I ain't PC, but good TV is good TV.

Hmm.

I'm not attacking you, but there's this idea that people fit into categories or boxes and cannot (or should not) go beyond the borders of the label that others assign them.

The reason I'm "independent" in every respect is I've always had a problem with this concept. I'm so diverse in my own mind that I sometimes confuse myself - my inner monologue is like eight different people arguing as I try to consider, analyze and process multiple perspectives.

Most people are very complicated and their personalities & characters are made up of a whole bunch of lifetime influences, interests & perspectives (sometimes conflicting ones).

I remember studying this psychology program that was supposed to help you in business by figuring out how to classify people (and thus how to respond to or treat them). It had codes outlined that you'd create based on other's personality traits. You could examine yourself (a somewhat subjective process) to come up with your own code.
What it came down to was that there were only about 10 or so different types of people as everyone had to fit into one of the codes. I read the whole book and tried to do the exercises, but after a while I realized this was all B.S.
People don't easily fit into types or codes - and if they do, the codes are probably about as expansive as those that DNA helices come up with. People are often as dualistic as they are cohesive.

Yeah, we all contain multitudes and all that. Doesn't mean I can't (or shouldn't) question the dissonance when it becomes pertinent.

[Omnizoa]

I'm not attacking you, but there's this idea that people fit into categories or boxes and cannot (or should not) go beyond the borders of the label that others assign them.

The reason I'm "independent" in every respect is I've always had a problem with this concept. I'm so diverse in my own mind that I sometimes confuse myself - my inner monologue is like eight different people arguing as I try to consider, analyze and process multiple perspectives.

Most people are very complicated and their personalities & characters are made up of a whole bunch of lifetime influences, interests & perspectives (sometimes conflicting ones).

I remember studying this psychology program that was supposed to help you in business by figuring out how to classify people (and thus how to respond to or treat them). It had codes outlined that you'd create based on other's personality traits. You could examine yourself (a somewhat subjective process) to come up with your own code.
What it came down to was that there were only about 10 or so different types of people as everyone had to fit into one of the codes. I read the whole book and tried to do the exercises, but after a while I realized this was all B.S.
People don't easily fit into types or codes - and if they do, the codes are probably about as expansive as those that DNA helices come up with. People are often as dualistic as they are cohesive.
Ideally, the majority of people are one-dimensional pawns in a game of identity politics.

The US election has a lot of people saying this is the best opportunity independents have ever had, but it's still a big mob of people jostling against each other to stand behind one of two repellant flags and asserting the superiority of their position.

These peope don't think like you, Captain, they're maniacs.

[Captain Steel]

Yeah, we all contain multitudes and all that. Doesn't mean I can't (or shouldn't) question the dissonance when it becomes pertinent.

By all means. I wouldn't try to admonish or influence anyone for asking questions or voicing opinions, especially on forums designed for that purpose.

Now, I'm going to go debate my last post as I made a lot of points that I can view from a counter perspective and which I can easily cast as dubious, uninformed or that I can outright refute! ;)

[The Gunslinger45]

So you think real-life people criticising a flawed institution is silly but like a cartoon about a teen whose mission statement is criticising flawed institutions?



Someone complaining about Halloween costumes is not criticizing a flawed institution. That is their hang ups on costumes. If they don't like them, don't buy them. If they don't want their kids dressing up in said costumes, that is their right as an American. If someone dresses up in an offensive costume (Hitler, Bin Laden, etc) then the issue is not with the costume and the holiday, but the people wearing it.

As for me liking Daria, if I had to like only movies and shows that align with my political views, I would have a narrower selection of movies. I have this strange super power that allows me to watch a work and analyze it based on it's merit even if it expresses views counter to my own. Hence why I can enjoy Paths of Glory despite being in the military and hawkish, I can enjoy movies that explore views I do not share. If the work does it well and is not trying to ram an overt political message down my throat, I can accept me and the creator will not be voting the same come election day, but I can still enjoy the work.

To not do so would just be closed minded,

[Captain Steel]

Ideally, the majority of people are one-dimensional pawns in a game of identity politics.

The US election has a lot of people saying this is the best opportunity independents have ever had, but it's still a big mob of people jostling against each other to stand behind one of two repellant flags and asserting the superiority of their position.

These peope don't think like you, Captain, they're maniacs.

Yes. I certainly realize there are people who are not "complicated" in the same respects as some others are. Some people are "concrete" thinkers and do not contemplate expanding beyond their own self-defined borders. Some people are not deep. Some people have never developed the capacity to view things from other perspectives.

But most people are complicated in the respect that they are a conglomeration of diverse ideas, values, emotions & experiences which they can apply to the practice of considering multiple perspectives of others or experiencing life with a variety of inclinations, explorations & preferences themselves.

[Omnizoa]

But most people are complicated in the respect that they are a conglomeration of diverse ideas, values, emotions & experiences which they can apply to the practice of considering multiple perspectives of others or experiencing life with a variety of inclinations, explorations & preferences themselves.
That just tells me most people DO have capacity, they just don't use it.

[Iroquois]

Someone complaining about Halloween costumes is not criticizing a flawed institution. That is their hang ups on costumes. If they don't like them, don't buy them. If they don't want their kids dressing up in said costumes, that is their right as an American. If someone dresses up in an offensive costume (Hitler, Bin Laden, etc) then the issue is not with the costume and the holiday, but the people wearing it.

Considering how there's a whole industry dedicated to producing and selling these costumes, I'd say that it does qualify as an institution that deserves to be criticised. I realise that this isn't necessarily going to stop people from making their own screwed-up costumes (I don't think anyone was selling Trayvon Martin costumes), but that doesn't mean that costume companies should be allowed to get away with upholding such a bad status quo in the name of something as simple as commercial gain. You can say "if you don't like it, don't buy it" all you want, but as I noted in my original post:

I'm also not sure how the "if you don't like it, don't do it" thing applies when it's quite obvious that the only people doing it are the ones who do like it, don't understand the problem, or just don't care.

I don't necessarily think that the people who would buy such costumes are inherently terrible, but I do think that they need to understand the significance of what they are doing. After all, if "if you don't like it, don't buy it" is your argument, then it stands to reason that I should at least be able to argue why it shouldn't be liked or bought to those who have the capacity to comprehend the reason (which discounts OP, obviously). It's not just about the people who wear the costumes, it's about the people who create and sell them too.

[Omnizoa]

I forget who said it, but we should be able to distinguish and articulate not jyst the short answers, but the long answers to questions.

Should abortion be legal?

Should marijuana be legal?

Should we have a death penalty?

Should we have more gun control?

Should we have more border control?


On the campaign trail these questions invariably come down to Yes or No, however all of these topics demand a significant degree of nuance, to the point that an answer in either direction shouldn't pass with some kind of caveats, conditions, or contingencies.

People need to be able to have that conversation and their opinion on one shouldn't inform of their opinion on another.

[Captain Steel]

Another off-topic thing about Halloween - when I was a kid I hated the costumes that were sold.
If it was Batman they'd have the mask, but then on the front of the costume they'd have the word "Batman" and a picture of the character! And I was like, "Wait a minute! Where's the bat emblem? Batman doesn't have his name on his chest and an illustration of himself, he's got a bat emblem!" What character has their own picture on their clothes?

And this went for superhero costumes, cartoon characters, etc. (I never saw Popeye or Mighty Mouse have their name and a picture of themselves on their shirts in any depictions of them... except on Halloween costumes!)

As a kid I always hated the way things were marketed to kids and their parents. And the weird thing is as a kid I could identify this stuff.
(Like, why did the TV cartoon Super Friends need Marvin, Wendy and the half-speaking Wonder Dog? I couldn't "relate" to superheroes without non-powered kids and a talking dog? I watched the show because I wanted to see the superheroes from the comics, not non-powered kids that were somehow supposed to help me "relate". The whole idea made no sense to me.)

[TONGO]

Another off-topic thing about Halloween - when I was a kid I hated the costumes that were sold.
If it was Batman they'd have the mask, but then on the front of the costume they'd have the word "Batman" and a picture of the character! And I was like, "Wait a minute! Where's the bat emblem? Batman doesn't have his name on his chest and an illustration of himself, he's got a bat emblem!" What character has their own picture on their clothes?

And this went for superhero costumes, cartoon characters, etc. (I never saw Popeye or Mighty Mouse have their name and a picture of themselves on their shirts!)

As a kid I always hated the way things were marketed to kids and their parents. And the weird thing is as a kid I could identify this stuff.
(Like, why did the TV cartoon Super Friends need Marvin, Wendy and the half-speaking Wonder Dog? I couldn't "relate" to superheroes without non-powered kids and a talking dog? I watched the show because I wanted to see the superheroes from the comics, not non-powered kids that were somehow supposed to help me "relate". The whole idea made no sense to me.)

Oh, I remember those pathetic rinky dink come in a $5 plastic package halloween costumes. I had one that was "The Spider" which was a broken assed attempt at Spider-Man, just sad. :tsk: Like in the Eddie Murphy Delirious concert and the burger his Mom made him was supposed to be as good as McDonalds. THATs what those costumes were. :laugh:

[earlsmoviepicks]

In an aside; I used to freeze paintballs prior to 'Mischief Night' (the day after Halloween) and then lay in a hide in or around my parents property, wearing a ghillie suit to 'snipe' the egg throwers....


There are few things more fun then watching a frozen paintball shatter an egg-throwers entire carton...except for when I hit one of them in the chest with a slightly de-frosted red paint-ball and he moaned/screamed as though he thought he was dying :D


Great childhood memories!!!

Note, Use Draxxus brand, they freeze harder

[seanc]

Considering how there's a whole industry dedicated to producing and selling these costumes, I'd say that it does qualify as an institution that deserves to be criticised. I realise that this isn't necessarily going to stop people from making their own screwed-up costumes (I don't think anyone was selling Trayvon Martin costumes), but that doesn't mean that costume companies should be allowed to get away with upholding such a bad status quo in the name of something as simple as commercial gain. You can say "if you don't like it, don't buy it" all you want, but as I noted in my original post:



I don't necessarily think that the people who would buy such costumes are inherently terrible, but I do think that they need to understand the significance of what they are doing. After all, if "if you don't like it, don't buy it" is your argument, then it stands to reason that I should at least be able to argue why it shouldn't be liked or bought to those who have the capacity to comprehend the reason (which discounts OP, obviously). It's not just about the people who wear the costumes, it's about the people who create and sell them too.


So how do you feel about people dressing up as serial killers and the like?

[Iroquois]

So how do you feel about people dressing up as serial killers and the like?

Fictional serial killers should be okay within reason, but real-life ones would be pushing it a bit too far.

[Citizen Rules]

Yea! I say ban all non PC Halloween costumes. Wait a minute....Halloween itself offends some, let's ban it....Wait another minute, the miniature candy makers would be offended if it was banned.... We better keep Halloween, as profits are all American!

[seanc]

Fictional serial killers should be okay within reason, but real-life ones would be pushing it a bit too far.

So you would be ok with a fictional native American costume?

[TONGO]

So you would be ok with a fictional native American costume?

What, like The Manitou with Tony Curtis? ;) Good movie

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/17/The_Manitou_-_1978_-_Poster.png

[Iroquois]

So you would be ok with a fictional native American costume?

Not if it's going to get worn by a non-Native. What does this have to do with serial killers?

[Frightened Inmate No. 2]

yeah the only way sean's question makes sense would be if the reason you wouldn't wear a costume based on a real serial killer was because you didn't want to offend other serial killers, which i don't believe is the case.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Not if it's going to get worn by a non-Native.

You're against people wearing Native American Halloween costumes if they're not Native American themselves?

[seanc]

Not if it's going to get worn by a non-Native. What does this have to do with serial killers?

My point is don't you think people would be offended by glorifying violence, especially if they have violence in their history. Maybe the question would work better if I asked about a kid dressing as a soldier. Should soldiers be offended? I'm just confused by how any of this is offensive. This is someone this little girl wanted to emulate. If it is because it is a group that was marginalized, would it be ok for an African-American girl to dress as a native American. How about cowboys, police officers. If we are telling little white girls they shouldn't emulate native Americans aren't we sending them a message opposite of acceptance of all races?

[Iroquois]

yeah the only way sean's question makes sense would be if the reason you wouldn't wear a costume based on a real serial killer was because you didn't want to offend other serial killers, which i don't believe is the case.

That is correct. In the case of real serial killers it would be more likely to offend victims/survivors and their loved ones than other serial killers, plus it plays into the whole cult of personality that can build up around them and that's just not good for society.

You're against people wearing Native American Halloween costumes if they're not Native American themselves?

Yes.

[Sexy Celebrity]

You're against people wearing Native American Halloween costumes if they're not Native American themselves?

Yes.

This is why I'm voting Trump.

This.

[Sexy Celebrity]

These people think they're being shocking. In the past, people tried to open all possible doors to do something shocking and outrageous. Now all the doors are open, so they're trying to CLOSE all the doors to be shocking.

[Citizen Rules]

Not if it's going to get worn by a non-Native. What a shameful little kid in the pic, apparently he didn't eat his PC cereal, arrest him!
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/25/62/2d/25622d9759140dc8b16e28800edd0155.jpg

[TONGO]

This is why I'm voting Trump.

This.
LOL! What the hell does Trump of all people, have to do with people that "get it" or dont? Ohmygosh! :laugh:

[Captain Steel]

He's celebrating white Europeans wiping out entire nations with small pox!

[Sexy Celebrity]

Next thing you know, they'll be saying it's racist for a white person to date/marry/have sex with a black person. How dare white people think they're privileged enough to be touching black skin, they'll say.

[Captain Steel]

Yea! I say ban all non PC Halloween costumes. Wait a minute....Halloween itself offends some, let's ban it....Wait another minute, the miniature candy makers would be offended if it was banned.... We better keep Halloween, as profits are all American!

This is true. You may remember that I helped edit & proofread a couple books that were published... (I won't say the titles as I wouldn't want to offend the author who paid me for my work) ...which were written by born-again converts from Wicca to Christianity. They find Halloween very offensive (and dangerous as it opens innocent little children up to demonic influences and possession).
I think that's just all the sugar, but whatever.

[Iroquois]

My point is don't you think people would be offended by glorifying violence, especially if they have violence in their history. Maybe the question would work better if I asked about a kid dressing as a soldier. Should soldiers be offended? I'm just confused by how any of this is offensive. This is someone this little girl wanted to emulate. If it is because it is a group that was marginalized, would it be ok for an African-American girl to dress as a native American. How about cowboys, police officers. If we are telling little white girls they shouldn't emulate native Americans aren't we sending them a message opposite of acceptance of all races?

I think it's one of those cases where a line gets drawn between acceptance of another culture and appropriating of another culture - at least it provides a valuable lesson that there's more to appreciating a different culture than just imitating it on a superficial level. I don't think that it would be any more acceptable for non-white races to do the same thing either - they may not be white but they're still not Native American either. I'd say a major difference with a soldier costume is that it has no racial connotations whatsoever, though I imagine you could make arguments against the military as a tool of American nationalism or whatever that would make wearing a soldier costume at least a little questionable.

[Iroquois]

This is why I'm voting Trump.

This.

Yeah, that's as good a reason as any to vote for the guy whose running mate supports conversion therapy.

These people think they're being shocking. In the past, people tried to open all possible doors to do something shocking and outrageous. Now all the doors are open, so they're trying to CLOSE all the doors to be shocking.

Uh-huh.

What a shameful little kid in the pic, apparently he didn't eat his PC cereal, arrest him!
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/25/62/2d/25622d9759140dc8b16e28800edd0155.jpg

Don't be absurd.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Iroquois, how DARE you post on this forum when you haven't even been here as long as I have. How DARE you think you have the PRIVILEGE to be posting in the same space as me! You may have been here a long time, but still, NOT AS LONG AS I HAVE! GET OUT! GET OUT OF HERE! I am offended! I am deeply offended!

Also, how dare you come around me when your username is only one word. What - you think you're better than me because your username is only one word and mine is two words? You think you're better than me because you joined the forum sometime after I did? This is disgusting! HELP! HELP ME! Iroquois is offending me! HELP!

[Iroquois]

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/heathersfilm/images/e/ec/Cry_bebeh.jpg

[seanc]

I think it's one of those cases where a line gets drawn between acceptance of another culture and appropriating of another culture - at least it provides a valuable lesson that there's more to appreciating a different culture than just imitating it on a superficial level. I don't think that it would be any more acceptable for non-white races to do the same thing either - they may not be white but they're still not Native American either. I'd say a major difference with a soldier costume is that it has no racial connotations whatsoever, though I imagine you could make arguments against the military as a tool of American nationalism or whatever that would make wearing a soldier costume at least a little questionable.


I think like with all things the line should be drawn at bad intentions. I don't see how a child dressing as a character they have read about and have a doll of is offensive in the least. If my kids wanted to dress as a minority character they like I would definitely let them. My philosophy as a dad has been to talk about people's actions only and not involve race unless they bring it up. I don't do everything right as a father but my kids come to me with genujne shock when they hear someone talk about someone's skin color or ethnicity in a derogatory manor. I consider that a win. Maybe I'm not treating this stuff with enough care but I'm proud of how my kids treat others so I will live with it and they will get to dress as Finn if they ever want to.

[TONGO]

I think it's one of those cases where a line gets drawn between acceptance of another culture and appropriating of another culture - at least it provides a valuable lesson that there's more to appreciating a different culture than just imitating it on a superficial level. I don't think that it would be any more acceptable for non-white races to do the same thing either - they may not be white but they're still not Native American either. I'd say a major difference with a soldier costume is that it has no racial connotations whatsoever, though I imagine you could make arguments against the military as a tool of American nationalism or whatever that would make wearing a soldier costume at least a little questionable.
I know what you need :yup:

Loosen up Iro, little kids dressing up as indians is kind of a compliment in a way. Its making natives into fictional heroes of wonder in a childs mind. That sure as hell will promote them better than a p.c. history book.

[Sexy Celebrity]

HELP!

SOMEBODY! HELP!

[Captain Steel]

Now that Captain America: Civil War is out... should anyone be allowed to dress as the Black Panther?
(He's got a whole bunch of potential "triggers" going on - the nationality, the ethnicity, species issues, the NAME!)

Just for those who don't know: the character was created before the organization was developed. Once the organization was established, Stan Lee & co. changed the comic character's name briefly to the "Black Leopard" but soon reverted back to his original code name as no one cared for the new name.

https://costumesupercenter-weblinc.netdna-ssl.com/product_images/marvels-captain-america-civil-war-boys-black-panther-costume/573d46a069702d70de00123f/large_thumb.jpg?c=1464110590

Photo chose for the fact that the kid in the costume is clearly Caucasoid! *Gasp!* Is this like dressing up in black face?

[Iroquois]

I think like with all things the line should be drawn at bad intentions. I don't see how a child dressing as a character they have read about and have a doll of is offensive in the least. If my kids wanted to dress as a minority character they like I would definitely let them. My philosophy as a dad has been to talk about people's actions only and not involve race unless they bring it up. I don't do everything right as a father but my kids come to me with genujne shock when they hear someone talk about someone's skin color or ethnicity in a derogatory manor. I consider that a win. Maybe I'm not treating this stuff with enough care but I'm proud of how my kids treat others so I will live with it and they will get to dress as Finn if they ever want to.

Of course bad intentions deserve to be criticised and rejected, but does that automatically make good intentions acceptable (especially if they may not be coming from a place of awareness)? The Washington Post article referenced in the OP illustrates the issue even with good intentions - the author's daughter does want to wear a Native American costume out of genuine fondness for the character, but by the end of the article she does learn that the outfit in question is too special to be worn as a mere Halloween costume. This change isn't achieved through any cartoonish displays of PC outrage but through a demonstration of the culture's importance that speaks to why it shouldn't be treated lightly, creating a greater appreciation of the culture in the process.

I know what you need :yup:

Loosen up Iro, little kids dressing up as indians is kind of a compliment in a way. Its making natives into fictional heroes of wonder in a childs mind. That sure as hell will promote them better than a p.c. history book.

What a patronising post.

[Captain Steel]

Black Panther discusses his name change:

http://zak-site.com/Great-American-Novel/images/103-149/ff119-leopard.jpg

[Citizen Rules]

The day we forget about people's skin color and stop being offended by the smallest things, is the day we will all just be...people.


Peace out:) and when it comes to Halloween remember all candy is made equal!

[seanc]

Of course bad intentions deserve to be criticised and rejected, but does that automatically make good intentions acceptable (especially if they may not be coming from a place of awareness)? The Washington Post article referenced in the OP illustrates the issue even with good intentions - the author's daughter does want to wear a Native American costume out of genuine fondness for the character, but by the end of the article she does learn that the outfit in question is too special to be worn as a mere Halloween costume. This change isn't achieved through any cartoonish displays of PC outrage but through a demonstration of the culture's importance that speaks to why it shouldn't be treated lightly, creating a greater appreciation of the culture in the process.

I guess. At the end of the day your view and the view of the women who wrote this piece have nothing to do with me so I won't lose any sleep. All the outrage over such things is just starting to get to me more than a little bit. It comes from a good place but feels so misguided and irrational to me. Nothing is more important to me than my faith and I could care less about kids that dress as angels or priests. It wouldn't bother me if my kids wanted to dress as Jesus despite us not being even a little Israeli.

[Sexy Celebrity]

I thought the point of Halloween was you're supposed to dress as something you're not?

[TONGO]

Sorry I came off as patronizing Iro. You have to agree though that little kids dressing up as Indians, or whatever isnt like some white guy putting on blackface.

[Sexy Celebrity]

I could care less about kids that dress as angels

Isn't that offensive to supernatural beings?

[ManOf1000Faces]

So if one SJW is bad, we should generalize all the SJW's to be radical about this halloween costume thing. So fighting for equal rights now has gotten dumbed down. like the word triggered is a meme now. it loses its effect. SJW's were always around, and kids have had native american costumes since the 50's. when you were a kid, i bet you didn't mind, but now you do. hypocrisy.

[Captain Steel]

If I had kids I'd dress them up as "SJW's"! ;)

[Iroquois]

I guess. At the end of the day your view and the view of the women who wrote this piece have nothing to do with me so I won't lose any sleep. All the outrage over such things is just starting to get to me more than a little bit. It comes from a good place but feels so misguided and irrational to me. Nothing is more important to me than my faith and I could care less about kids that dress as angels or priests. It wouldn't bother me if my kids wanted to dress as Jesus despite us not being even a little Israeli.

How convenient for your sleep cycle. In any case, I'm not sure what's so rational about the alternative.

I thought the point of Halloween was you're supposed to dress as something you're not?

Consider the countless racially neutral alternatives first.

Sorry I came off as patronizing Iro. You have to agree though that little kids dressing up as Indians, or whatever isnt like some white guy putting on blackface.

There is a bit of an overlap if both instances are due to actual ignorance, and at least in the case of kids the responsibility falls to the parents or guardians who would determine their choice of costume.

So if one SJW is bad, we should generalize all the SJW's to be radical about this halloween costume thing. So fighting for equal rights now has gotten dumbed down. like the word triggered is a meme now. it loses its effect. SJW's were always around, and kids have had native american costumes since the 50's. when you were a kid, i bet you didn't mind, but now you do. hypocrisy.

This started off agreeable, but after those last couple of lines I'm not so sure what point you're trying to make.

If I had kids I'd dress them up as "SJW's"! ;)

I would not be surprised if this had actually happened at one point.

[Camo]

I'm not sure why everybody are so up in arms over the fact that Native Americans might not like White people dressing up in their cultural attire. Should be a thing everyone should respect, it may not be offensive in the way black face is maliciously offensive but i think people should respect how they feel about it. Saying that i also don't think white people should be going around telling everyone what is and isn't offensive, especially when it's an issue they entirely create themselves on behalf of another ethnicity/culture which wasn't asked for, not saying that's the case here but still.

[Omnizoa]

So if one SJW is bad, we should generalize all the SJW's
"Social Justice Warrior" is a pejorative term, why are you defending them like they're a diverse group of people when it's explicitly an insult directed at a shared behavior?

[seanc]

I'm not sure why everybody are so up in arms over the fact that Native Americans might not like White people dressing up in their cultural attire. Should be a thing everyone should respect, it may not be offensive in the way black face is maliciously offensive but i think people should respect how they feel about it. Saying that i also don't think white people should be going around telling everyone what is and isn't offensive, especially when it's an issue they entirely create themselves on behalf of another ethnicity/culture which wasn't asked for, not saying that's the case here but still.

That's not the case here. It is a white women deciding what native Americans should get in a tizzy about actually.

[seanc]

How convenient for your sleep cycle. In any case, I'm not sure what's so rational about the alternative.

The rationale is Halloween is all about dressing up as something your not, that's it. If you are trying to convince me Halloween is a stupid holiday that we should just go ahead and stop celebrating me and you are going to come to an agreement a lot quicker.

[Camo]

That's not the case here. It is a white women deciding what native Americans should get in a tizzy about actually.

Yeah? I said that that shouldn't happen. Just as much as i think some 'pc gone mad' (no one here as far as i'm aware, well since Slob was banned :D) people are ridiculous for thinking they can be the judge of what other people are and aren't allowed to find offensive, i think the other side (particularly white people) are ridiculous in thinking that they have a say in what other cultures/ethnicities are to find offensive. I said that.

Plenty of Native Americans do find this sort of thing offensive though i've not heard anything to do with halloween but i know i've read stuff about them finding people wearing headdresses or whatever for other occasions offensive. And call me a SJW if you want (not necessarily talking to you Sean) but i think they have a right to object to it and non-natives should respect their wishes.

[Iroquois]

The rationale is Halloween is all about dressing up as something your not, that's it. If you are trying to convince me Halloween is a stupid holiday that we should just go ahead and stop celebrating me and you are going to come to an agreement a lot quicker.

Cancelling Halloween is a bit extreme, I'm just saying that dressing as something you're not shouldn't mean that you get permission to do whatever you want without regard for others.

[TONGO]

There is a bit of an overlap if both instances are due to actual ignorance, and at least in the case of kids the responsibility falls to the parents or guardians who would determine their choice of costume.

Just to clarify, you're saying kids dressing up as Indians for Halloween is like white people wearing black face. That much political correctness comes off as idiocy. Seriously, if you cant dress up for Halloween as an Indian due to fear of offending a race of people then youve simply got too much time to think and not enough real life experience. Thats not patronizing, thats just fact.

[Iroquois]

It's more out of trying to demonstrate basic respect for others than being afraid of personal reprisal.

[Camo]

Just to clarify, you're saying kids dressing up as Indians for Halloween is like white people wearing black face. That much political correctness comes off as idiocy. Seriously, if you cant dress up for Halloween as an Indian due to fear of offending a race of people then youve simply got too much time to think and not enough real life experience. Thats not patronizing, thats just fact.

Obviously not speaking for Iro, just giving my own opinion on this.

Of course black face isn't comparable to kids dressing up as Indians, one is out of malicious intent (mostly or terrible comedy sometimes) the other isn't. Doesn't mean it is not offensive to Native Americans though. If they don't find it offensive (they do in similar instances at least) then non-natives shouldn't try to make an issue out of it since they have zero say in what is offensive to Natives.

At the same time though non natives can't tell them what they are allowed to find offensive, sorry but they just can't. If they do have a problem then non natives really should respect what they are saying. It'd be like me from Scotland telling an American they can't find a 9/11 joke offensive or even better me telling an American they can't find those two morons who dressed up as the burning twin towers for Halloween a few years back offensive - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2488232/Fury-British-girls-Twin-Towers-fancy-dress-costumes--daughter-pilot-flying-US-time-terror-attacks.html

I'm not saying they are directly comparable either but it's the same situation with an outsider thinking they have a say in what an other culture/ethnicity/nationality,etc can find offensive.

[seanc]

Yeah? I said that that shouldn't happen. Just as much as i think some 'pc gone mad' (no one here as far as i'm aware, well since Slob was banned :D) people are ridiculous for thinking they can be the judge of what other people are and aren't allowed to find offensive, i think the other side (particularly white people) are ridiculous in thinking that they have a say in what other cultures/ethnicities are to find offensive. I said that.

Plenty of Native Americans do find this sort of thing offensive though i've not heard anything to do with halloween but i know i've read stuff about them finding people wearing headdresses or whatever for other occasions offensive. And call me a SJW if you want (not necessarily talking to you Sean) but i think they have a right to object to it and non-natives should respect their wishes.

If that line of thinking stretched to everyone I wouldn't have nearly the problem with it that I do. It would be nice if we could come to a point of mutual respect. Instead it feels like we have swung too far the other way and we are now telling the majority shut up and take your medicine like a man. It is the exact same thinking that divided us in the first place. Either everyone has the right to be offended or no one does. We are just exasperating the problem we are trying to solve.

The Halloween thing is just mind boggling to me because the entire point of the holiday is to be something your not. Why is this conversation not happening around nurses, doctors. cops, firefighters. I could go forever. This little girl has a doll she plays with and loves so wants to emulate that. How is the doll not offensive? It's going to be sold for a quarter next year at a garage sale and that girl is going to want to dress like Beyonce. Kids have played make believe forever. I'm exhausted.

[TONGO]

It's more out of trying to demonstrate basic respect for others than being afraid of personal reprisal.

No, this is not an example of basic respect for others. Putting kids that dress up as Indians in the same category as white people wearing black face goes far beyond basic respect. Its more like an opinion out of touch with reality.

[Yoda]

It's more out of trying to demonstrate basic respect for others than being afraid of personal reprisal.
I think the disagreement comes from (what seems like) the continued insistence that "basic respect for others" actually means "avoiding anything that upsets anyone." There is, to be sure, a lot of overlap between the two, but it often feels like progressives have essentially granted veto power to whoever feels sufficiently offended.

[Camo]

If that line of thinking stretched to everyone I wouldn't have nearly the problem with it that I do. It would be nice if we could come to a point of mutual respect. Instead it feels like we have swung too far the other way and we are now telling the majority shut up and take your medicine like a man. It is the exact same thinking that divided us in the first place. Either everyone has the right to be offended or no one does. We are just exasperating the problem we are trying to solve.

The Halloween thing is just mind boggling to me because the entire point of the holiday is to be something your not. Why is this conversation not happening around nurses, doctors. cops, firefighters. I could go forever. This little girl has a doll she plays with and loves so wants to emulate that. How is the doll not offensive? It's going to be sold for a quarter next year at a garage sale and that girl is going to want to dress like Beyonce. Kids have played make believe forever. I'm exhausted.

I mostly agree with your first paragraph.

C'mon Sean though that's absolutely not the same thing, those are occupations Native Americans are a race (or a large collection of different ethnic groups, just using the catch all term rather than name specific ones). Some of their attire is sacred to their culture, and the fact is their ancestors were slaughtered by many of our ancestors. I'm not someone who thinks white people of today should go around feeling guilty for something they had no involvement in, that thinking is absurd to me and i heavily disagree with people of that mind. At the same time though i don't think it is too much to ask to have some basic respect for them and understand that they may have a problem with it. No matter how innocent the intentions are it can still be offensive.

[Iroquois]

No, this is not an example of basic respect for others. Putting kids that dress up as Indians in the same category as white people wearing black face goes far beyond basic respect. Its more like an opinion out of touch with reality.

Some reality.

I think the disagreement comes from (what seems like) the continued insistence that "basic respect for others" actually means "avoiding anything that upsets anyone." There is, to be sure, a lot of overlap between the two, but it often feels like progressives have essentially granted veto power to whoever feels sufficiently offended.

Something like that.

[TONGO]

Im tellin ya.........

http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q565/theTONGO/1cc3ys_zpssu5kuq1c.jpg

[Gatsby]

Bashing SJWs has become a cliche of its own.

[Topsy]

for those saying SJW are white women that shouldnt be telling others when to be offended,is that what they`re doing or are they listening to the native americans who say they are offended by it?
interesting discussion though!
and i think both sides make great points.I do agree on not going as real serial killers though.

[seanc]

I mostly agree with your first paragraph.

C'mon Sean though that's absolutely not the same thing, those are occupations Native Americans are a race (or a large collection of different ethnic groups, just using the catch all term rather than name specific ones). Some of their attire is sacred to their culture, and the fact is their ancestors were slaughtered by many of our ancestors. I'm not someone who thinks white people of today should go around feeling guilty for something they had no involvement in, that thinking is absurd to me and i heavily disagree with people of that mind. At the same time though i don't think it is too much to ask to have some basic respect for them and understand that they may have a problem with it. No matter how innocent the intentions are it can still be offensive.


Ironically you and me are probably a lot closer to thinking alike then most others in the thread. I think sports teams should have got rid of the Indian monikers years ago. I can't figure out for the life of me why they are haniging on to those. Anyway, I do think talking about kids dressing up as cops or soldiers is closer to the proper argument than black face. The argument seemed to be more centered on the clothes being sacred than anything else. If I in anyway saw this giving this girl more of a perspective on race or culture I would be for it. It doesn't, it is just another way of seperating us and them. Something progressives purport to be against.

[Swan]

Bashing SJWs has become a cliche of its own.

Agreed. Wanted to say something similar.

Also, intentions might be innocent and pure but as a reflection of our country/society and their influence on people who might not know better (kids, for example), it might not be so much.

[TONGO]

Im not trying to bash Social Justice Warriors, just show theyre not always right, and they should pick their fights where theres real harm being done. Im not articulating it effectively though.

[Camo]

I agree Sean i think we are pretty close on this. Don't agree the dressing up as a cop or nurse or whatever occupation is closer to dressing up as a Native as blackface is. For the record i wish blackface wasn't brought up because it's an entirely different situation. Fact is though they are both things of very different severity that can be offensive to a culture/ethnicity, etc. Don't understand at all how you can say those are less similar than one compared to an occupation, sorrry.

Anyway not got much else to say on this. I've given my opinion and i have mostly been repeating myself for the past few posts.

[Camo]

for those saying SJW are white women that shouldnt be telling others when to be offended,is that what they`re doing or are they listening to the native americans who say they are offended by it?
interesting discussion though!
and i think both sides make great points.I do agree on not going as real serial killers though.

It entirely depends on the situation. Here i'd say the latter since native american groups have voiced their objections to non natives wearing their attire before. There's other situations were normally white people think they have a say in what is offensive to natives, blacks, asians, whatever, and that's absurd.

[Omnizoa]

I think the disagreement comes from (what seems like) the continued insistence that "basic respect for others" actually means "avoiding anything that upsets anyone." There is, to be sure, a lot of overlap between the two, but it often feels like progressives have essentially granted veto power to whoever feels sufficiently offended.
That's the key in the lock that needs to be turned.

[TONGO]

Screw this drama!! We need emergency Haunted House footage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozVRGho-cZQ

[Omnizoa]

Screw this drama!! We need emergency Haunted House footage.
Umm... no (http://www.inquisitr.com/1531608/extreme-haunted-house-or-legal-torture-mckamey-manor-allows-you-to-live-a-horror-movie-video/).

[Camo]

Jesus. Wonder how long it will take for someone to die there.

[TONGO]

Umm... no (http://www.inquisitr.com/1531608/extreme-haunted-house-or-legal-torture-mckamey-manor-allows-you-to-live-a-horror-movie-video/).

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Well......maybe Kevin Hart and Jimmy Fallon will go thru that :yup:

[Citizen Rules]

There's 5.4 million Native Americans and Native Alaskans, I'm sure Iros or the women in the news article, do not speak for all of them. I think this is a non-issue. I never heard of it before and I hadn't even considered a kid dressing as an Indian chief or Indian princess a potential problem until I seen this thread. In fact I'm convinced it's not a real problem (just news media hype), and that the majority of native Americans aren't concerned about this issue.

[Omnizoa]

There's 5.4 million Native Americans and Native Alaskans, I'm sure Iros or the women in the news article, do not speak for all of them. I think this is a non-issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyEMZB3UOWg

[Camo]

There's 5.4 million Native Americans and Native Alaskans, I'm sure Iros or the women in the news article, do not speak for all of them. I think this is a non-issue. I never heard of it before and I hadn't even considered a kid dressing as an Indian chief or Indian princess a potential problem until I seen this thread. In fact I'm convinced it's not a real problem (just news media hype), and that the majority of native Americans aren't concerned about this issue.

Not all Natives need to be bothered by it for it to be offensive. Some black people will find black face funny (just using this since it was the example brought up earlier not comparing them) that doesn't give you the right to dismiss it as a non issue. You can convince yourself of whatever you like but the fact is it does bother some Natives and they are the only ones who get a say in the matter.

From a Native American:

HEADDRESSES IN NATIVE CULTURES

For the most part, headdresses are restricted items. In particular, the headdress worn by most non-natives imitate those worn by various Plains nations. These headdresses are further restricted within the cultures to men who have done certain things to earn them. It is very rare for women in Plains cultures to wear these headdresses, and their ability to do so is again quite restricted.

So unless you are a native male from a Plains nation who has earned a headdress, or you have been given permission to wear one (sort of like being presented with an honorary degree), then you will have a very difficult time making a case for how wearing one is anything other than disrespectful, now that you know these things. If you choose to be disrespectful, please do not be surprised when people are offended… regardless of why you think you are entitled to do this.

Even if you have ‘native friends’ or are part native yourself, individual choices to “not be offended” do not trump our collective rights as peoples to define our symbols.

Couldn't agree more with that.

http://apihtawikosisan.com/hall-of-shame/an-open-letter-to-non-natives-in-headdresses/

[Friendly Mushroom!]

There's 5.4 million Native Americans and Native Alaskans, I'm sure Iros or the women in the news article, do not speak for all of them. I think this is a non-issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyEMZB3UOWg


This link is better for your point as it gives more info.

https://youtu.be/6lKG1r1Gslg

:)

[NextScorsese]

Social Justice Warriors complaining about something stupid.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6ZsY2Bb1a0eA7gPu/giphy.gif

[Citizen Rules]

Not all Natives need to be bothered by it for it to be offensive. Likewise if only a smaller fractional percentage of NA (Native Americas) are bothered then that doesn't trump the majority of NA who aren't bothered by Halloween costumes. Seeing how NA, like all people are individuals, it's bother some for one person to speak for all of them. We are ALL equal in America so we ALL get a voice. Including me;)

Some black people will find black face funny Really:eek: Well I wouldn't wear black face Trick or Treating in Detroit.

that doesn't give you the right to dismiss it as a non issue. Sure it does, watch...it's a non issue;)


You can convince yourself of whatever you like We ALL convince ourselves of our own truths.

but the fact is it does bother some Natives and they are the only ones who get a say in the matter.So if a minority of NA are offended but the majority aren't then the minority of NA get to dictate to the majority of NA how all of them should act? I don't think so.

[Omnizoa]

This link is better for your point as it gives more info.
I think I inflicted enough pain with that video.

[NextScorsese]

I think I inflicted enough pain with that video.

Sometimes I really wonder what the hell was going through Rob Reiner's head when he was shooting this scene.

[Citizen Rules]

I think I inflicted enough pain with that video.
What was the video? I didn't watch it, and now I'm afraid too.:eek:

[Omnizoa]

What was the video? I didn't watch it, and now I'm afraid too.:eek:
Career suicide.

[Camo]

This is the important part that answers what you are saying, Citizen in bold.

Even if you have ‘native friends’ or are part native yourself, individual choices to “not be offended” do not trump our collective rights as peoples to define our symbols.

Even if this weren't the case you are making an assumption to justify your view that nobody should be bothered by this. My guess is a wrong one but i don't have any numbers to back me up, still we do know for a fact that some Natives find this offensive which should be enough for people but i guess it's not.

[Omnizoa]

we do know for a fact that some Natives find this offensive
http://static.fancydress.com/resources/ecommerce/images/products/436/496/4/img4496436/product_main.jpg

[Citizen Rules]

Things have a way of balancing out in this world. If a number of people are offended by kids dressed as Indian princess/chiefs, they will make their voices heard and the manufactures of those costumes will decide there's no money in it and the trend of little kids dressing as Indian princesses will end. Just like in my state, smoking is on the way out as enough people complained about second hand smoke and a few years ago smoking was banned in all public places including restaurants, bars, buildings, movie lines and parks near groups of people. As a result smoking has dropped in my state. So things change based on what the majority want. If the majority or even a vocal minority of NA dislike Halloween Indian costumes all they have to do is raise a stink and no more costumes.

[Camo]

Handsome guy.

[Camo]

If the majority or even a vocal minority of NA dislike Halloween costumes all they have to do is raise a stink and no more costumes.

They shouldn't have to though. People should learn to respect their IMO justified problems with people wearing them instead of stubbornly deciding to keep on doing it. Anyway this time i am actually done here, as i think i've laid out all my thoughts and i'll respectfully disagree with you and the others views on this. This i think is relevant to people having a problem with people having a problem:

If you choose to be disrespectful, please do not be surprised when people are offended… regardless of why you think you are entitled to do this.

[Citizen Rules]

For what it is worth, I don't think it's cool for anyone in society to deliberately try and offend another group (ethic,religion, gender, sexual, etc). And I have to agree with Sean on the sports team logos. I find some of the Indian theme ones in poor taste.

In my state there was a high school who's sports team name was Native American related and they talked about it in the school and the kids decided to contact the local Indian tribe and ask them their opinions. And I wish I could say what the outcome was but I never heard. I think the tribe might have voted to ask the school to change their mascot logo. But at any rate it was all done politely.

[Omnizoa]

I agree with .

[TONGO]

I agree with TONGO.

http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=27446&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1476467165

:laugh: Yknow, I actually do have some scots in me.....and Im cool with it. ;)

[The Gunslinger45]

I agree with The Gunslinger45.

I see what ya did there. ;)

[Citizen Rules]

Gee, and I thought Omni liked me, but it was just that code:(

[TONGO]

Aw! I shoulda known.....Tongo cry :(

[Vokzul]

excuse me

[Omnizoa]

Gee, and I thought Omni liked me, but it was just that code:(Aw! I shoulda known.....Tongo cry :(
I'm sorry guys, I didn't mean to offend you, here...

http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=27447&stc=1&d=1476468229 http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=27448&stc=1&d=1476468248

[TONGO]

TONGO dress as Scotsman for Halloween :)

[The Gunslinger45]

TONGO dress as Scotsman for Halloween :)

With all the talks of Scotsmen, this had to be posted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxDJMn-534Y


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es0t50H44IE

[seanc]

Not all Natives need to be bothered by it for it to be offensive. Some black people will find black face funny (just using this since it was the example brought up earlier not comparing them) that doesn't give you the right to dismiss it as a non issue. You can convince yourself of whatever you like but the fact is it does bother some Natives and they are the only ones who get a say in the matter.

From a Native American:



Couldn't agree more with that.

http://apihtawikosisan.com/hall-of-shame/an-open-letter-to-non-natives-in-headdresses/


So would you be okay with a kid dressing as a priest? Because again we have flipped from this being about race to it being about sacred dress.

[Camo]

So would you be okay with a kid dressing as a priest? Because again we have flipped from this being about race to it being about sacred dress.

It's not about what i think as i've tried to make clear. I'm not personally offended by people wearing headdresses and i don't pretend to be, the main point i've been arguing is that natives have every right to be and non natives don't have any say in how they should feel.

There's a difference again but yeah if Catholics find that offensive then they have the right too. I'm Catholic although i'm not religious for the record. It's not just about it being sacred either there's a whole other issues with the treatment native americans went through and the people who subjected them to this' descendants disrespecting them further by wearing their sacred clothing. Of course that's rarely the intent but it is a point that should make people think twice IMO.

[Camo]

Someones got to ban me from this thread or i'll just keep rambling on :laugh:

[seanc]

It's not about what i think as i've tried to make clear. I'm not personally offended by people wearing headdresses and i don't pretend to be, the main point i've been arguing is that natives have every right to be and non natives don't have any say in how they should feel.

There's a difference again but yeah if Catholics find that offensive then they have the right too. I'm Catholic although i'm not religious for the record. It's not just about it being sacred either there's a whole other issues with the treatment native americans went through and the people who subjected them to this' descendants disrespecting them further by wearing their sacred clothing. Of course that's rarely the intent but it is a point that should make people think twice IMO.

Maybe part of my problem is that I view history as history. I think we should learn from it and to me part of that is not fighting the same fights over and over. I respect history but I don't have any real reverence for it. People ask where I'm from, I'm from Buffalo. Don't you care where your ancestors came from? Not even a little bit. I care about who is in my life right now that I can influence day to day. I care about the people that influence me and my children. I really kind of rebel against looking behind.

I'm not trying to tell people how to feel but I do think people are looking for ways to be marginalized, makes them feel more important. I also find that people who love a lot of pop culture (movies, tv, comedy, music) come off as hypocrites in this area. There is so much being put out there to offend so many different people. We don't care until we do though. We have no problem telling most groups to suck it up and ignore it.

I especially find this whole thing upsetting because it is about an innocent child who is trying to emulate someone. If you have a problem with her dressing this way you should have a problem with her playing with the doll. I can see no difference.

Ok, I'll be done too.

[Camo]

That's a fair comment Sean, even though i don't agree with some of it. I've said my piece though and i'll join you outside this thread :highfive:

[TONGO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-LyFMCIpok

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY4RAtFftR0

:yup:

[Captain Spaulding]

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s451/captainspaulding87/culture%20not%20costume_zpsvvtpmjuh.jpg

[Camo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-LyFMCIpok

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY4RAtFftR0

:yup:

Well he's not from Glasgow. No self respecting Glaswegian loses a swordfight.

[TONGO]

Well he's not from Glasgow. No self respecting Glaswegian loses a swordfight.

They didnt show off his machine gun leg as much as Id like.

[Camo]

I've never actually seen Samurai Jack, it came on Cartoon Network just as i stopped watching it i think. Would've been 10 or something. All i know is there is a theory that it takes place in the post-apocalyptic world the Powerpuff Girls inhabited :laugh:

[TONGO]

I've never actually seen Samurai Jack, it came on Cartoon Network just as i stopped watching it i think. Would've been 10 or something. All i know is there is a theory that it takes place in the post-apocalyptic world the Powerpuff Girls inhabited :laugh:

I had some friends show me some episodes. They watched the Cartoon Network alot.

[Camo]

Cartoon Network was the best when i was a kid. Can't watch them anymore unless i'm with my nephews or nieces but Ed, Edd N Eddy, Dexters Lab, Powerpuff Girls and Courage The Cowardly Dog will always mean alot to me. The animation in most of them are great especially in Ed and Courage; only came to notice this when i tried to watch them as an adult and of course i'd outgrew them, ended up watching more of Ed, Edd and Eddy than i should've because the animation was so fantastic for my tastes at least.

[TONGO]

Cartoon Network was the best when i was a kid. Can't watch them anymore unless i'm with my nephews or nieces but Ed, Edd N Eddy, Dexters Lab, Powerpuff Girls and Courage The Cowardly Dog will always mean alot to me. The animation in most of them are great especially in Ed and Courage; only came to notice this when i tried to watch them as an adult and of course i'd outgrew them, ended up watching more of Ed, Edd and Eddy than i should've because the animation was so fantastic for my tastes at least.

It seems to be like your generations MTV. When I was growing up the "music video channel" was quite the thing, but I think CNs durability will serve it better in the long haul with viewers. I remember MTVs format was just like a radio station, but instead of DJs they had VJs ;) Now they got nothing. You cant even catch a normal music video on anymore.

Im surprised CN didnt try and latch onto a seriously popular comic book series or novels to develop for themselves, like The Waking Dead or Game Of Thrones. If the only stipulation is it must be animated, theyve only scratched the surface on what they can put out. Do they have any dramas or longterm storyline shows on CN?

[Sexy Celebrity]

Plenty of Native Americans do find this sort of thing offensive though i've not heard anything to do with halloween but i know i've read stuff about them finding people wearing headdresses or whatever for other occasions offensive. And call me a SJW if you want (not necessarily talking to you Sean) but i think they have a right to object to it and non-natives should respect their wishes.

While it may be nice to respect "their" wishes, why should everyone just bow down to whatever people are saying? Also, I highly doubt that every Native American gets offended by non-natives dressing up in their attire. So what about those people - the ones not offended? You make it seem like every single member of a group believes in the same ideas. They don't. And that's something that I think people ought to follow more -- their own ideas. 'Cause just because a group of certain people don't like something, that doesn't mean they're right. That doesn't mean everybody ought to follow their logic.

[Topsy]

even i have heard about complaints from the NA about the costumes :lol: not only halloween but certain (english?) festivals where stuff is used as fashion.

[TONGO]

even i have heard about complaints from the NA about the costumes :lol: not only halloween but certain (english?) festivals where stuff is used as fashion.
I dont see the offense if no mockery is intended. I certainly cant even respect the subject talking about it with a bunch of white folks. This injustice comes off contrived because nobody is offended. Because nobody was. Should an Indian be offended? No. Theres no insult or mockery intended dressing up as one.

Consider people think it foul to dress up as real serial killers. You dont want to glorify them, right? Then how is dressing up as an Indian NOT glorifying Indians? Ah ha! ;) Sometimes people just think too much.

[Topsy]

im only stating the fact that ive heard of NAs being offended by it (all the way over here),not saying i agree/nor disagree with them.

and white people should speak up if they think other groups are being disrespected,or listen to them when they say they are being so-which is what im assuming has happened here.which is why i said what i said above about even me hearing about it.
as for your last line,i dont think those are the same though. its not necessarily just glorifying the killer but also making a mockery and joke out of someones murder,so one could argue that it would make a mockery out of their clothing/heritage. where you will prob mention the nurse,police etc etc costume to which i would reply with a bit of what camo mentioned earlier about there being different history to how they were treated to those said costumes.
anywho,i dont really have a set opinion on it-i could see people thinking it being (unintentionally) disrespectful
so then theres the obvious question of wether it is disrepectful or wether people are putting too much into it.

[Citizen Rules]

I personally find the use of the F*** to be offensive when used in mixed company, including the internet. Now...how many of you are willing to change your ways just because I find F*** offensive? None of you! that's what I thought! See how feels when it's on the other foot, you don't want to give up something you do just because a few people are offended. And don't tell me it's not the same thing, it's similar enough to make a comparison.

[donniedarko]

F^ck

[BraedenG33]

I'm so glad I found this thread now rather than when it started, this is not an argument I want any part of (I have a very strong opinion on the matter, but I'm not gonna share it because I gain nothing from having an frustrating pointless argument on the internet when no one's opinion is going to change, frankly).

BUT, I do have something to add to the Cartoon Network discussion.

Im surprised CN didnt try and latch onto a seriously popular comic book series or novels to develop for themselves, like The Waking Dead or Game Of Thrones. If the only stipulation is it must be animated, theyve only scratched the surface on what they can put out. Do they have any dramas or longterm storyline shows on CN?

They did do that! It was called Teen Titans, and then it got cancelled before it's time after 5 fantastic seasons. And then again with Green Lantern: The Animated Series, and Beware the Batman, and the best of the bunch IMO, Young Justice, each after two or fewer seasons. Why, you might ask? THe answer, has to do with an idea called market segregation and it basically comes down to: the shows were too popular with girls and girls don't buy action figures (where the real revenue came from with superhero shows), so even though the shows were among the most popular in their timeslots, it didn't matter, because parents think superheroes are 'boy toys' so hey, little Sally who loves Teen Titans can't have a Robin doll (let alone a Starfire doll, which they didn't even make, because why make female action figures if girls won't buy them? -_-). This isn't even speculation either, Bruce Timm, the showrunner for a few of these shows (YJ, GLTAS, and Titans I believe), came out and said pretty straight up that this was the case (though I can't find the link to the quote I used to have it ages ago).

God it makes me so mad too, I loved those shows.

Also for those that think that sexism has nothing to do with it and it's just a money thing, that's not the case, because if a girl show is popular with guys, instead of cancelling it because parents don't buy boys girl focused toys, they just refocus the marketing to cater to guys. So in a way even their sexism is sexist. :)

[TONGO]

I personally find the use of the F*** to be offensive when used in mixed company, including the internet. Now...how many of you are willing to change your ways just because I find F*** offensive? None of you! that's what I thought! See how feels when it's on the other foot, you don't want to give up something you do just because a few people are offended. And don't tell me it's not the same thing, it's similar enough to make a comparison.

To be offended in life is in-evi-table!! There is no avoiding it, it will occur. Political correctness is an unnatural act but its the best thing we got. Other than that we should have thicker skin, not be so sensitive, but not insensitive either.

I think if an Indian is angered by kid dressing up as one for Halloween, then theyre just being a tool. :shrug: Should white people start acting offended by being called names or imitated, or whatever? Hell no, everyone picks on white folks, even white folks.

Should black folks, and are black folks angered by white kids dressing and talking like them? No. Why? Because theyre not trying to be insulting.

Its. A . Little. Kids. Costume. Its not anything to get bent about. We need to be respectful, but not out of touch too.

[Citizen Rules]

...we should have thicker skin, not be so sensitive, but not insensitive either... I like that thought.

And I hope everyone who reads my last post understands I'm trying to make a point that even though I find some things offensive I don't try to force other people to change. (not directed at you Tongo:) or anyone in particular, I'm just trying to show how silly PC stuff can get.)

[Camo]

While it may be nice to respect "their" wishes, why should everyone just bow down to whatever people are saying? Also, I highly doubt that every Native American gets offended by non-natives dressing up in their attire. So what about those people - the ones not offended? You make it seem like every single member of a group believes in the same ideas. They don't. And that's something that I think people ought to follow more -- their own ideas. 'Cause just because a group of certain people don't like something, that doesn't mean they're right. That doesn't mean everybody ought to follow their logic.

Uh.. what? As entertaining and funny your comment is and i know the general reception here i'll get laughed at including by you but whatever.

Also, I highly doubt that every Native American gets offended by

Who the hell are you to try to decide how many Native Americans are needed for their disputes to have relevance? You don't have any say in that, sorry i know you think you should be involved in everything but no. The idea that non natives can say not every native is offended by it so it isn't offensive, is aggressively stupid. It's saying "i didn't mean bad, so you have no right to feel bad".

Sorry, i know most including you probably don't want me to post here anyway.

i won't

[Captain Steel]

Who the hell are you to try to decide how many Native Americans are needed for their disputes to have relevance? You don't have any say in that, sorry i know you think you should be involved in everything but no. The idea that non natives can say not every native is offended by it so it isn't offensive, is aggressively stupid. It's saying "i didn't mean bad, so you have no right to feel bad".

Sorry, i know most including you probably don't want me to post here anyway.

i won't

Yeah, well they're OUR natives, Camo, and we'll do with them what we like - we don't need any stinking foreigners telling us how to treat our natives!

(just kidding... in the most offensive way I could think of... plus it IS Friday night!) ;)
2 + weeks till Halloween!

[Camo]

Yeah, well they're OUR natives, Camo, and we'll do with them what we like - we don't need any stinking foreigners telling us how to treat our natives!

(just kidding... in the most offensive way I could think of... plus it IS Friday night!) ;)
2 + weeks till Halloween!

Don't worry you're white, you are corol and people from other cultures, whatever aren't allowed to be offended because you've decided it is silly if they do.

Not a bit of hyperbole here, i'm sure you stick by everything you've said?

Sure you've got a few friends that don't find stuff you don't want to find offensive;: offensive, up to you-oh wait it isn't up to you, or is it?

What are people allowed to find offesive?

[Camo]

White People:

What is and isn't offensive it is up to you.

[Captain Steel]

Don't worry you're white, you are corol and people from other cultures, whatever aren't allowed to be offended because you've decided it is silly if they do.

Not a bit of hyperbole here, i'm sure you stick by everything you've said?

Sure you've got a few friends that don't find stuff you don't want to find offensive;: offensive, up to you-oh wait it isn't up to you, or is it?

What are people allowed to find offesive?

How do you know I'm white? Does my typing sound white? There are people of color, you know, who type white.

White people are offended by this minority view that we all get along with each other and do each other special favors and don't try to screw each other. In actuality white people have no respect for the skin color of other white people - they're perfectly willing to treat their fellow whites as crappy as they treat everyone else.

[Camo]

Does my typing sound white?

Yes. Aggressively White. To the point that you could've wore blackface on the radio and that guy barely listening to the radio would've picked you out as the white guy.

[TONGO]

Aggressively White.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SNw3fCC6Qog/Uo11iyATmCI/AAAAAAAAIUg/szkdowTg6Hg/s320/crazy+man+dance.gif

:)

[Camo]

Great contribution TONGO, what happened to those not-moronic Samurai Jack clips?

[Camo]

Those were moronic.

[Captain Steel]

Great contribution TONGO, what happened to those not-moronic Samurai Jack clips?

I loved Samurai Jack!
(Did anyone ever notice that he was the twin brother of the Professor from the Power Puff Girls?)

[Camo]

I loved Samurai Jack!
(Did anyone ever notice that he was the twin brother of the Professor from the Power Puff Girls?)

I mentioned the powerpuff connection on the last page :laugh:

[Captain Steel]

I mentioned the powerpuff connection on the last page :laugh:

Sorry 'bout that. I started reading all the earlier posts from today, then got distracted and somehow jumped to the end. I need to go catch up on this excellent discussion tomorrow (which is now today.)

[Omnizoa]

I'm tempted to post pictures of furry men in Powerpuff Girls costumes, but I think this thread is already longer than it deserves.

[TONGO]

Great contribution TONGO, what happened to those not-moronic Samurai Jack clips?
Well Im not trying to act like I know what Im talking about with matters overseas. After all I would only serve as an irritant wanting to make talk on sensitive matters, like an election or racial issues, only for the sake of making talk. ;) If I were to upset someone, me saying I had no strong opinion one way or the other in response, after stating opinions, would just come off as a troublemaker to a noticing eye.

Like this topic when I said white kids talking and acting black doesnt seem offensive to black folks today. That is even further over the line than a kid dressing up as an Indian for Halloween. Indians had many injustices commited against them, this isnt that. Acting angered or offended that kids dress up as Indians when Im not even an Indian myself, well that sounds more like bitterness or wanting to stir it up.

Oh, and dont pick on my costume :D

[Topsy]

Like this topic when I said white kids talking and acting black doesnt seem offensive to black folks today.

well thats not true.
also about the overseas part with the internet and all that we get as much info as the rest of you ;)

Just saying! :D

[TONGO]

well thats not true.
also about the overseas part with the internet and all that we get as much info as the rest of you ;)

Just saying! :D

You got to be kidding me! :eek: No Topsy, to watch tv, movies, or internet is not the same as being an actual citizen growing up and actually living in a country. I wouldnt presume to know whats its like to be from England or Ireland to be preaching to a Englishman or Irishman.

wow, just wow

[Topsy]

and youre not a NA

the question here is not what its like to be an american living in america
its about wether they have the right to be offended or not and in that all the same info is available for all of us

[TONGO]

You costume is offensive to gorillas. You make Harambe cry.

Well... if Harambe could still cry, of course.

Im a Scotsman!!!! :D I still have money I earned as a child, and me beard grows red.


(It does actually, which is why I wont grow one.)

[TONGO]

and youre not a NA

the question here is not what its like to be an american living in america.

Well no kidding Im not a Native American. Im a white man whose country bled them completely dry. I live in Florida where the Seminole nation, the only native tribe which never surrendered to the US Govt. exist, and I know Indians - you dont. Now kids dress up as Indians to celebrate them. There should be some common sense in political correctness, shouldnt there? Should we be angered if Indians dress like us? This "injustice" is too petty and broken to get truly bent about. There are other things which are inarguably insulting that deserve this attention.

[Topsy]

like i said,i dont really have an opinion on that matter i think both sides make good arguments
im just responding to you thinking you have more right to have an opinion on NA being offended because your american,which doesnt make sense.

[Citizen Rules]

So called, social justice warriors 'steal' a large block of Land O Lakes butter in protest over the companies Native American logo. The man in the beret is a supposed Marxist. The other man just wanted to fit in.

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Business/GTY_land_o_lakes_mar_140408_16x9_608.jpg

[Topsy]

Social Justice warriors is a bit of a weird name though

[TONGO]

Well Im not trying to act like I know what Im talking about with matters overseas. After all I would only serve as an irritant wanting to make talk on sensitive matters, like an election or racial issues, only for the sake of making talk. ;) If I were to upset someone, me saying I had no strong opinion one way or the other in response, after stating opinions, would just come off as a troublemaker to a noticing eye.

like i said,i dont really have an opinion on that matter i think both sides make good arguments
im just responding to you thinking you have more right to have an opinion on NA being offended because your american,which doesnt make sense.

:)

[Topsy]

i can still respond to things i dont think is correct even though i dont have a set opinion on the matter. ;)

[Captain Steel]

Social Justice warriors is a bit of a weird name though

It's become a "meme".

Hopefully "Aggressively White" will become one too! ;)

[TONGO]

i can still respond to things i dont think is correct even though i dont have a set opinion on the matter. ;)

Then you have an opinion on the matter, a book read or tv fed opinion, but an opinion. In regards to racial strife, moreso than the election, real life experience and living in the said vicinity holds more weight. Do you disagree?

[Omnizoa]

It's become a "meme".
I hate memes. But even more I hate that the word "meme" has become a "meme".

Because it hardly applies here.

[Sexy Celebrity]

What's wrong with memes?

[Friendly Mushroom!]

What's wrong with memes?

Nothing. They're among the best things the internet has given birth to.

[Captain Steel]

And this is the second best thing the Internet has given birth to!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SNw3fCC6Qog/Uo11iyATmCI/AAAAAAAAIUg/szkdowTg6Hg/s320/crazy+man+dance.gif

:)

Aggressively White

[Topsy]

Then you have an opinion on the matter, a book read or tv fed opinion, but an opinion. In regards to racial strife, moreso than the election, real life experience and living in the said vicinity holds more weight. Do you disagree?

no,i had opinion on the things i disagreed with which are the ones i replied to,those are not the matter we were discussing but examples of same behaviour according to you that i dont think are correct.
by book reading,do you mean history books?they dont count? articles dont count? news dont count? sorry since youve met some must mean you mean know everything then,just like i know the opinion of every christian person because i know some.

[Omnizoa]

What's wrong with memes?
What isn't?

They are things that are repeated for the sake of repeating.
They're parroted by virtue of being parroted before.
They're references divorced of context.

They're intellectually worthless garbage proliferated by people with nothing of substance to say otherwise.


People don't even understand what "memes" are and it's misattributed everywhere to the point of making the word "meme", itself, memetic and therefor entirely meaningless.

They're among the best things the internet has given birth to.
That's extraordinarily depressing.

[TONGO]

https://scontent.ftpa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14470553_10154611835762082_2875590237758535870_n.jpg?oh=2a57abfa614c24bad43d1dc5e1a98598&oe=585F8D65

[TONGO]

https://images.iskysoft.com/topic-cms/halloween-pumpkin01.jpg

https://www.funnypica.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Halloween-Funny-Pumpkins-36.jpg

https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/best-funny-kids-childrens-halloween-costumes-5.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=780

http://www.pbh2.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/walter-white-funny-halloween-costumes.jpg

http://www.minimalisti.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/funny-toddler-halloween-costumes-granny-costume.jpg

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/enhanced/webdr06/2013/9/19/14/enhanced-buzz-26704-1379614740-4.jpg

https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/halloween-2014-best-funny-memes-9.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=780

http://i2.wp.com/www.homemadehalloweencostumesideas.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Funny-Halloween-costumes-ideas-2016-10.jpg?fit=620%2C529

http://www.halloweenimagesfree.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Best-Funny-Halloween-Costume-Ideas-For-The-Office-2016-3.jpg

[Citizen Rules]

http://www.minimalisti.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/funny-toddler-halloween-costumes-granny-costume.jpg
Love those! especially this one, it's so not-PC:eek:, that I'm sure grannies everywhere are upset:mad::p

[Captain Steel]

What isn't?

They are things that are repeated for the sake of repeating.
They're parroted by virtue of being parroted before.
They're references divorced of context.

They're intellectually worthless garbage proliferated by people with nothing of substance to say otherwise.


People don't even understand what "memes" are and it's misattributed everywhere to the point of making the word "meme", itself, memetic and therefor entirely meaningless.


That's extraordinarily depressing.

They're really nothing new, they've been around a long long time.
Before they were "memes" they were called commercial jingles.

But, you've come a long way, baby... so have it your way. I try to be all that I can be and the best a man can get, so I'm going to try to reach out and touch someone before I take the pause that refreshes and go plop plop fizz fizz oh what a relief it is! I'm luvin' it since a little dab'll do ya, it's good to the last drop and finger lickin' good! I can't believe it's not butter and I never have a second cup at home! You're probably sick of this rant by now, but what're ya gonna do... when it rains it pours! So for now I'll say "just do it!" because it's not nice to fool Mother Nature... and it's Miller Time!

I'm so glad we had this time together. May tomorrow be a perfect day, may you find love and laughter along the way. Good night Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are!

[Captain Steel]

https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/halloween-2014-best-funny-memes-9.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=780





:rotfl:

[TONGO]

https://twistedsifter.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/optimus-prime-beer-cases-funny-halloween-costume.jpg?w=535&h=713

https://media1.popsugar-assets.com/files/thumbor/1zlAuxU61fVX37CjSqB54miapKY/fit-in/1024x1024/filters:format_auto-!!-:strip_icc-!!-/2014/10/23/846/n/3019466/00818e3176b8bad6_Censored/i/Censored.jpg

https://twistedsifter.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/plast-green-army-man-halloween-costume.jpg?w=598&h=800

http://cdn.kickvick.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/horribly-cute-pet-halloween-costumes-061-a.jpg

http://thekill.raghunter.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2014/10/0608-tiger.jpg

http://www.formyhour.com/img/funny/awesome_halloween_costumes/halloween_costumes_1.jpg

[donniedarko]

http://www.minimalisti.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/funny-toddler-halloween-costumes-granny-costume.jpg
Love those! especially this one, it's so not-PC:eek:, that I'm sure grannies everywhere are upset:mad::p

Age appropriation

[DAnconiaLead]

Paul Joseph Watson;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2ySty3ONkY

[Movie Max]

I'm not attacking you, but there's this idea that people fit into categories or boxes and cannot (or should not) go beyond the borders of the label that others assign them.

The reason I'm "independent" in every respect is I've always had a problem with this concept. I'm so diverse in my own mind that I sometimes confuse myself - my inner monologue is like eight different people arguing as I try to consider, analyze and process multiple perspectives.

Most people are very complicated and their personalities & characters are made up of a whole bunch of lifetime influences, interests & perspectives (sometimes conflicting ones).

I remember studying this psychology program that was supposed to help you in business by figuring out how to classify people (and thus how to respond to or treat them). It had codes outlined that you'd create based on other's personality traits. You could examine yourself (a somewhat subjective process) to come up with your own code.
What it came down to was that there were only about 10 or so different types of people as everyone had to fit into one of the codes. I read the whole book and tried to do the exercises, but after a while I realized this was all B.S.
People don't easily fit into types or codes - and if they do, the codes are probably about as expansive as those that DNA helices come up with. People are often as dualistic as they are cohesive.

I like this post, thanks. I was just getting analyzed and boxed in...:D
http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1599182#post1599182

[Movie Max]

Peace out:) and when it comes to Halloween remember all candy is made equal!

No it's not. Quality manufacturers still use turmeric as a colorant, the others just try to poison you with Tartrazine.:sick:

http://www.livestrong.com/article/370945-health-effects-of-yellow-5-food-coloring/

[Movie Max]

Snoop Dogg mocks whites with "Todd" character?:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1wfUmZ3kU4

[Movie Max]

How do you know I'm white? Does my typing sound white? There are people of color, you know, who type white.

If you're not, please choose your avatar more carefully.

https://images.moviepilot.com/images/c_limit,q_auto,w_710/img_0013-e1401892648873-is-a-black-superman-a-good-idea-jpeg-92870/meet-val-zod-the-black-superman-of-earth-2.jpg

[Movie Max]

Ok, I got through the entire thread. I started off by seeing TONGO's Halloween costume images near the end, and thought this would be a light and easy topic. Now, I'm seeing the benefits of being Metis in a discussion such as this. Glad it's almost over.

[TONGO]

Yall dont wanna be bumping this thread, it really is the devil. :yup:

[Movie Max]

Oh no. My Sci-Fi Slob is banned.

Ouch, he really is. It's probably my fault. I remember that I set him off with my Downfall rating and commentary.:blush:

[Iroquois]

Yall dont wanna be bumping this thread, it really is the devil. :yup:

Please note who was responsible for the original bump and what they thought was important enough to warrant said bump.

(hint: it's DAnconia and they put up another video by that British guy that is apparently different yet still says the same things. Hardly seems worth it.)

[Yoda]

This thread has generated basically no meaningful discussion, so I'm gonna close it.