View Full Version : Westworld
The link works fine, I dont know.
Heres a cool vid explaining the hints they dropped about Bernard in prior episodes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAOlvqU8G00
This was a pleasant video cleaning up the clutter surrounding what the maze really is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XTt2M7V7AE#t=1.653042
I think after all the fanboy theories I found, that anything that can be figured out to this point has been. If they say Ford is not a Host, then I guessed on my own power absolutely nothing. :facepalm:
Daniel M
11-17-16, 12:32 PM
Two fantastic episodes. Like how the storylines are become more distinct/separate, yet in terms of the overall picture things are starting to become clearer. Great ending to episode seven. Every episode my brother has been shouting that Bernard is a host (his main argument has been that Ford speaks to him and treats him like a robot, speaking very directly, abruptly mentioning his son, giving clear instructions etc.) and it was always possible, but the way they handled the reveal was fantastic, and the degree to which he is under Ford's control is fascinating.
Was speaking to Cobpyth and our main discussion was just how in control Ford is. He seems to be in complete control of everything, he knew about Bernard going to "his house", that the board have been trying to infiltrate the park and so on, he seems to be one step ahead, but does this match up with what exactly has been going on with the signals being sent out of the park. Is he aware of what Elsie discovered, that "Arnold", well multiple people have been using signals, altering codes and changing primary hosts and that? If he is in control why does he need to have all this secretive stuff and send stuff out of the park, or if he is aware, why is he allowing it? What is he up to?
Yeah, very encouraged by these last couple of episodes. Things were getting a little nuts for a bit. First 2-3 episodes: awesome. Next two: a bit convoluted. The fact that they started pulling in plot strands and focusing more on individual storylines for longer periods of time immediately after crossing the season's halfway point bodes pretty well, I think.
Daniel M
11-17-16, 12:45 PM
Totally agree there. The middle episodes, whilst enjoyable started to become more convoluted and theories were/are flying about everywhere. Episode six and seven didn't cut across them as much or pack a lot of details in them, but gave each of them the time they needed and made things a lot clearer. Perfect timing with some of the reveals now, and what I liked about the last/main one was that it wasn't ridiculous and worked well with what we've seen, and its came at a great time in setting up everything nicely for the three remaining episodes.
They havent said anything more on the cloaked people that are butchering hosts. They were immune to bullets so theyre human. Its probably gonna be a storyline revisited next season.
Austruck
11-17-16, 12:50 PM
Right about now I keep thinking that, if I didn't have in my mind the two timeline theory, I'd be a bit confused re. Dolores. She's the easy-to-see constant in both timelines, and since her looks don't change, I'd probably be a bit confused at her apparent waffling on so many types of thoughts and emotions if I thought this was all happening in the same time frame.
I appreciate that the storylines themselves are still fascinating despite feeling like I know one of the big reveals (assuming that this theory is right). A rewatch has me convinced it's right, though, if only because of that huge earlier logo when William first enters the pre-park area. It's so obviously different from the current logo.
The rewatch also confirmed that the hints for Bernard's reveal were there, but subtle enough that they weren't something I was even thinking about till they happened, starting with him asking, "What door?" The reveals we've seen have a sort of elegant smoothness to them that seems almost artistic when they happen.
And I still adore the opening credits. :)
TONGO: is that a theory of yours, a theory of someone else's, or an actual supposed spoiler revealed by someone who might know? Because the third of those is the only one I wouldn't want to read.
Austruck
11-17-16, 01:14 PM
(sigh) I'm avoiding your spoilery-thing above just because I probably should, unless you meant it for other folks who haven't already been watching with that theory in mind...
...because I think I'll be like you and start avoiding fan sites and theories from now on, too. I don't mind that I've seen that one I've seen, but I did LIKE the fact that I didn't know about the Bernard reveal till it happened. Made watching it happen a lot more fun.
Austruck
11-17-16, 01:15 PM
Ha, and so we both await Tongo's response on what might be in that spoiler area. (Still not clicking it here.)
Daniel M
11-17-16, 01:17 PM
Question: Why does Bernard shout out/ask "Arnold?!" when he walks in to Ford's secret house, and sees his father?
Austruck
11-17-16, 01:18 PM
The guy does look like the "Arnold" we've seen in the old photo...
Austruck
11-17-16, 01:18 PM
Was Arnold his brother too, as well as partner?
Daniel M
11-17-16, 01:21 PM
The photo that he showed Bernard was of himself I always thought. But maybe it was his brother, or a picture of his father when younger? I think it's likely that either Ford is Arnold, or if Arnold is a construction of his based on himself/someone else that he has used the name of his brother/father for.
Austruck
11-17-16, 01:24 PM
The photo that he showed Bernard was of himself I always thought. But maybe it was his brother, or a picture of his father when younger? I think it's likely that either Ford is Arnold, or if Arnold is a construction of his based on himself/someone else that he has used the name of his brother/father for.
There were two people in the photo. The left person was obviously Ford when younger. The other one we've always assumed was Arnold because he's talking about Arnold when he shows Bernard the photo. But he only ever calls Arnold his "partner," not his brother or father. Doesn't mean he's NOT either of those things, though....
Daniel M
11-17-16, 01:29 PM
Having looked in more detail at the multiple timeline evidence, I must say that the stuff about the logos seems way too precise for it not to all but confirm it. My only doubt is as I said before, that Dolores encounter with William and Logan seemed to come from her running away from he attackers, who she thought off because she was able to recall the violent actions of the Man in Black, who is undoubtedly from the present timeline.
If the multiple timeline theory is correct, what does that mean overall. The most obvious implication would be that the Man in Black is either William or Logan, and that doesn't change much, but is interesting. Before the last episode it seemed more likely to be Logan, and he fits the profile more in that he is already quite sadistic in his in-park actions and is a successful businessman, but Logan's "birth" in the train and reluctance to leave the world seems to now point that it would be him.
I think a more serious implication would be a reveal that during this time, Dolores was in contact with Arnold and he began to alter her and put in place his plans for whatever.
TONGO: is that a theory of yours, a theory of someone else's, or an actual supposed spoiler revealed by someone who might know? Because the third of those is the only one I wouldn't want to read.
(sigh) I'm avoiding your spoilery-thing above just because I probably should, unless you meant it for other folks who haven't already been watching with that theory in mind...
...because I think I'll be like you and start avoiding fan sites and theories from now on, too. I don't mind that I've seen that one I've seen, but I did LIKE the fact that I didn't know about the Bernard reveal till it happened. Made watching it happen a lot more fun.
I.... am sorry. It was from some theory crunching videos I saw on YouTube, I just compiled the information. I deleted the post entire, and hope I didnt spoil it as ....well the theories are pretty strong.
Daniel M
11-17-16, 01:32 PM
There were two people in the photo. The left person was obviously Ford when younger. The other one we've always assumed was Arnold because he's talking about Arnold when he shows Bernard the photo. But he only ever calls Arnold his "partner," not his brother or father. Doesn't mean he's NOT either of those things, though....
When I first saw it I thought the person on the right was Bernard, which was weird.
http://cdn.collider.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/westworld-arnold-picture.jpg
I would say that he looks to be non-white, and also has the same receding hairline as Bernard. Only thing is he actually looks older there, so maybe Ford recreated a younger Arnold, resulting in Bernard.
I don't think there will be a third person in it that Bernard can not see, because that would be the camera lying to us. Details that hosts ignore are always visible to us, but the hosts just overlook them or say they mean nothing to them.
I.... am sorry. It was from some theory crunching videos I saw on YouTube, I just compiled the information. I deleted the post entire, and hope I didnt spoil it as ....well the theories are pretty strong.
No worries man. That's actually the answer I was hoping for. If it's just fan theories, that's fine: it may or may not be right. It's just the leaked stuff I want to avoid. I don't mind hearing guesses.
Daniel M
11-17-16, 01:46 PM
The stuff Tongo posted was fine, I read it, just theories. Makes sense to wrap theories in spoilers because not everyone will want to read them, I guess you guys were concerned because he entitled the spoiler box as "spoilers", from what I remember it was mainly an extension on the multiple theory timeline with some extra Bernard stuff added in, I'd say it seems likely if the MTT is true :)
Oh yeah, good to post, and good to wrap in spoilers. But there are spoilers I'll read and ones I won't, so I just wanted to know which it was.
Austruck
11-17-16, 01:54 PM
The timeline theory is a fan theory, too, though, and part of me sometimes wishes I hadn't seen that, so I'm glad for spoiler tags even for fan theories.
The man on the right in the photo looks like the father-figure we saw in the Sector 17 house that's off the grid, so I assume that host is modeled after that person unless my eyes deceive me. So, since we know the one child host is modeled after a young Ford, and the father-figure looks like Arnold, what does that say about the relationship between Ford and Arnold? The guy in the photo does look like he could be old enough to be the father of the Ford figure in the photo.
Anyway, still a lot of things to be revealed, either in this season's final three episodes or into next season. It still seems carefully laid out and planned, though, unlike some later seasons of LOST and some of the last season of BATTLESTAR GALACTICA. :)
Daniel M
11-17-16, 02:04 PM
The man on the right in the photo looks like the father-figure we saw in the Sector 17 house that's off the grid, so I assume that host is modeled after that person unless my eyes deceive me. So, since we know the one child host is modeled after a young Ford, and the father-figure looks like Arnold, what does that say about the relationship between Ford and Arnold? The guy in the photo does look like he could be old enough to be the father of the Ford figure in the photo.
Your eyes are better than mine. Here I was thinking the guy in the photo was black, but you're right, it's almost definitely Ford's father. Even the same clothes.
https://i0.wp.com/media2.slashfilm.com/slashfilm/wp/wp-content/images/arnold-and-fords-father-in-westworld-comparison.jpg
And it was confirmed to be his father, right? Hopkins confirmed that they were based on his family, and that he tweaked him to be more realistic, adding his drinking.
Also confirms why Bernard asked "Arnold?!" when he saw him, he recognised him from the photograph.
Austruck
11-17-16, 02:09 PM
Something like that. So would that automatically make Arnold his father? We've heard only "Arnold," which can be either a first name or a last name, of course.
Or were the characteristics of the host Ford made those of his father but the looks were more like his partner? I think it's both purposely unclear in spots and yet obviously supposed to be the same person physically. The implication that Arnold is there for his father (Arnold Ford) are obvious, but is that because they *want* us to go there or because it's true?
Rhetorical questions. This show is so much fun to talk about. Haven't had a show like that in ages, which is why I brought up LOST and BSG -- both shows that were great to discuss as they aired. BSG has a lot in common with Westworld, of course, in that we're guessing who's a robot and who's not (a la the cylons of BSG).
Daniel M
11-17-16, 02:12 PM
Me and Cobpyth discussed the possibility that Arnold perhaps didn't and/or doesn't exist. That he is more a concept that Ford created to add to the dynamic of Westworld, or maybe a host that Arnold created. But maybe he based him off his father, or at the very least named him after him.
I think the idea of his father creating Westworld, then has Ford got older, he started to disagree more with him and the had conflicting visions is a good one. But if Arnold is/was literally his father, then there's questions to be asked like how is no one else aware of this fact, and why hasn't it been discussed by people in the park. They always talk about Ford and his partner, yet there's no proof anyone met "Arnold", and they would definitely refer to Ford and his father if they were both involved in the parks creation.
And yeah, Lost was the first TV show that I really got in to and loved :)
Austruck
11-17-16, 02:19 PM
I like the father/son dynamic a lot, as you've just expressed it. And if you notice, most of the park employees are young enough that Arnold having died 35 years ago means none of them were there at the time. The MIB seems to be the only link to the past who's been around as long as Ford, and I'm not sure any of their exchanges about Arnold rule out the possibility of Arnold being Robert's father. (In other words, the MIB never says, "Arnold, that guy who's NOT your father." HA!)
There has to be some reason the two "Arnolds" we've been shown look the same. We'll find out what reason that is, eventually.
Rhetorical questions. This show is so much fun to talk about. Haven't had a show like that in ages, which is why I brought up LOST and BSG -- both shows that were great to discuss as they aired. BSG has a lot in common with Westworld, of course, in that we're guessing who's a robot and who's not (a la the cylons of BSG).
Really? I never saw Battlestar Galactica, Ill definitely check it out now.
Daniel M
11-17-16, 02:41 PM
I just rewatched part of the end of episode three.
Dolores is in the barn, about to be attacked by one of the people raiding her home. She grabs a gun, but does not have it in her to shoot him.
Cut to: Memory of Man in Black approaching her with a knife, "Why don't we reacquaint ourselves Dolores, starting from the beginning?"
Cut back, a voice "Kill Him".
She shoots the man, runs out, then another figure appears from her home.
He shoots her.
The scene replays. She runs away and gets on a horse to escape.
She then ends up meeting up with William and Logan, right?
---
So I'm wondering, again, if the Multiple Timeline Theory is correct, which I think is now more likely than not, how it is possible when her encounter with Will/Logan is only able to occur after a memory of a violent encounter with the MIB triggers her to shoot those attacking her and flee her home.
Cobpyth
11-17-16, 02:51 PM
I just rewatched part of the end of episode three.
Dolores is in the barn, about to be attacked by one of the people raiding her home. She grabs a gun, but does not have it in her to shoot him.
Cut to: Memory of Man in Black approaching her with a knife, "Why don't we reacquaint ourselves Dolores, starting from the beginning?"
Cut back, a voice "Kill Him".
She shoots the man, runs out, then another figure appears from her home.
He shoots her.
The scene replays. She runs away and gets on a horse to escape.
She then ends up meeting up with William and Logan, right?
---
So I'm wondering, again, if the Multiple Timeline Theory is correct, which I think is now more likely than not, how it is possible when her encounter with Will/Logan is only able to occur after a memory of a violent encounter with the MIB triggers her to shoot those attacking her and flee her home.
OR it's not a memory and it's simply the Man in Black making her remember their first meeting ("why don't we reacquaint ourselves Dolores, starting from the beginning?" - CUT - she's suddenly in the barn again right before she meets William/Logan, one of them being the man in black).
Thing that's bothering me most right now is the dog being killed by the kid and Ford seemingly being distressed about it. It makes me ask questions about Ford's amount of control over and knowledge of what's happening.
Austruck
11-17-16, 03:14 PM
I'm with Cobpyth on this one: The scene with her meeting William and Logan comes after the MIB suggests that they start from the beginning. If they weren't trying to hide the timeline idea from us, we'd have seen some sort of fade there that indicated this was now going to a prior memory of hers.
About the dog: Could Ford be distressed because, in real life, he did something similar at that age and he's trying to recreate his childhood (and perhaps improve upon it?)... but the child host of himself does the same thing... meaning he can't escape who he really is if he's created a host largely based on himself, inside and out?
(I'm just offering that as an explanation for Ford's seeming frustration there.)
Austruck
11-17-16, 03:14 PM
Really? I never saw Battlestar Galactica, Ill definitely check it out now.
Now I envy you a first-watch of BSG. I might have to rewatch that whole series now. LOL
Cobpyth
11-17-16, 03:36 PM
I'm with Cobpyth on this one: The scene with her meeting William and Logan comes after the MIB suggests that they start from the beginning. If they weren't trying to hide the timeline idea from us, we'd have seen some sort of fade there that indicated this was now going to a prior memory of hers.
About the dog: Could Ford be distressed because, in real life, he did something similar at that age and he's trying to recreate his childhood (and perhaps improve upon it?)... but the child host of himself does the same thing... meaning he can't escape who he really is if he's created a host largely based on himself, inside and out?
(I'm just offering that as an explanation for Ford's seeming frustration there.)
It's possible, but the distress also seemed to come from the kid's explanation (i.e. Arnold telling him he had to kill the dog because the dog was a predator, etc.). It's still an ambiguous moment, so it's not easy to take away something absolute from it, but I thought Ford's reaction was quite unusual for someone who's in control.
I kind of had the same sense during his interview scene with Dolores. He was looking for something.
Now I wish I hadnt watched those fan theory videos, theyre too spot-on. I feel like a kid that searched, searched, finally found the hidden Christmas presents, and now regret it. :(
I think Ford is just discovering theres another element he doesnt have control over, and its "Arnold", but hes miffed because Bernard is Arnold, or a host of Arnold. Maybe Arnold grabbed Elsie and Jeffrey Wright is playing 2 parts?!
Very random thoughts:
Yeah, the timeline thing is definitely what's going on. They drop bigger hints every week. This time the big one was MiB saying "I thought they retired you" to the lady in the wilderness, played by the same actress who introduced William to the park back in episode two.
Also, two possible thoughts on how they'll reveal the timeline discrepancy:
1) Showing one of the older hosts opening up, in the old-fashioned face-opening style. I don't think this'll be how it's done, though, because it's not obvious enough, and because we know there are some older models around anyway, so it wouldn't even register for some, and wouldn't be definitive even for the people paying a lot of attention. I only mention it because they put that face-opening thing in last week's "Previously," which means we're meant to remember it.
2) This is the one I prefer: William kills Logan, and takes his black hat. Possible fade from one face to the other with the hat on.
Oh, and forgot to mention: of course he ends up fighting someone dressed in a Minotaur costume while searching for the center of a maze (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labyrinth). Been waiting for that one for awhile.
Very random thoughts:
Yeah, the timeline thing is definitely what's going on. They drop bigger hints every week. This time the big one was MiB saying "I thought they retired you" to the lady in the wilderness, played by the same actress who introduced William to the park back in episode two.
Also, two possible thoughts on how they'll reveal the timeline discrepancy:
1) Showing one of the older hosts opening up, in the old-fashioned face-opening style. I don't think this'll be how it's done, though, because it's not obvious enough, and because we know there are some older models around anyway, so it wouldn't even register for some, and wouldn't be definitive even for the people paying a lot of attention. I only mention it because they put that face-opening thing in last week's "Previously," which means we're meant to remember it.
2) This is the one I prefer: William kills Logan, and takes his black hat. Possible fade from one face to the other with the hat on.
Im definitely thinking Logans gonna die, but if he died then wouldnt that make 2 people that died in the park? Theyve always said it was only one.
That church steeple......Ford looked at it and now Delores has. I thought it was a framework for something about to be built, which confused me when Delores sees it in the past, and is having memories of a church with steeple. So instead it must be wreckage.
Austruck
11-21-16, 12:51 PM
You do realize, Yoda, that they won't do either of these. They'll do something not nearly as elegant. (This always happens with you -- you come up with a brilliant theory for the end of a show and then the real ending never measures up.)
Having said that, I'm glad you placed who that host was ("I thought they replaced you") because I couldn't picture where I'd seen her before in the show (probably because of her completely different context and clothing). That's definitely the biggest hint so far.
I'm kind of surprised that Ford let Theresa be dead instead of our guess that she'd come back as a host. I think we've seen the first real fault lines in Ford's armor: He assumes he can just control this entire situation. But Charlotte is onto him -- she doesn't believe his story. But I'm a bit confused on one point now: WAS Theresa sending info off-site? She was, right? We saw her talking with someone in China on a screen. Was that a bluff to throw us off? Because everyone else is completely certain that Theresa was too loyal to do that. So was that all part of Ford's "story" to get rid of Theresa?
He apparently didn't factor in other humans such as Charlotte ... and Stubbs, who had caught on to the affair between Bernard and Theresa. Having Bernard completely brush him off when confronted -- with no emotion whatsoever -- was another mistake on Ford's part.
I still assume we'll see Ford replacing at least one human with a host by the end of the season. Might not be Theresa, but instead perhaps Charlotte or Stubbs. (I'd assume Stubbs since Charlotte doesn't live there and is only a board member who is visiting.)
Plus, now I'm curious about what's going to happen to the MIB. Maeve may not be there to whisper sweet nothings in their ears, but those bad boys coming at him in the dark looked mighty ornery. Do they have trace memories now too, like Teddy did?
Austruck
11-21-16, 12:56 PM
Also, I assumed they would have brought in bigger "guns" (literally and figuratively) to bring down Maeve now that there is a tech/butcher dead inside the mothership. You'd think they'd just shut the entire park down temporarily now that a host has killed a human being (which is completely different from a guest dying by accident).
I think they explained last episode Theresa was sending the info to the board because they wanted to depose Ford, and didnt want him taking the info with him. Thats why she said she was too loyal for that.
Sadly, I think the host Fords making in the basement is for Elsie. Bernard had a brief flashback choking her. If he ever remembers that, he might go full-Maeve. Unlike Maeve he can reprogram himself if he had to, couldnt he?
Austruck
11-21-16, 01:03 PM
I think they explained last episode Theresa was sending the info to the board because they wanted to depose Ford, and didnt want him taking the info with him. Thats why she said she was too loyal for that.
Sadly, I think the host Fords making in the basement is for Elsie. Bernard had a brief flashback choking her. If he ever remembers that, he might go full-Maeve. Unlike Maeve he can reprogram himself if he had to, couldnt he?
Ah yes, I have no idea how I'd forgotten that. Thanks.
Isn't Bernard KIND OF full-Maeve already except not psychotic? Well, perhaps not. But I think the differences between them are minor at this point and more based on goals and determination. Maeve wants OUT and has been self-aware slightly longer than Bernard, and with a lot of nasty memories and a chip on her shoulder. So her reactions and actions are a lot more focused on changing her destiny. Bernard is new to this self-awareness thing, and he's a lot more docile to begin with. Plus, his life isn't constantly in danger and he doesn't feel (too much) like he's part of a silly narrative. He's still thinking he's mostly above that, though he is obviously starting to figure things out.
I think this is another of Ford's fatal mistakes: He shouldn't have let Bernard keep understanding that he's a host. Surely he could have rolled that back somehow?
Austruck
11-21-16, 01:06 PM
BTW, if you go to the www.discoverwestworld.com site and sign up, you get these newsletters that look like real come-ons to get you to go to the park. Just got this week's e-newsletter. Kinda fun. :) "Python Pass is currently closed for maintenance." :)
Ah yes, I have no idea how I'd forgotten that. Thanks.
Isn't Bernard KIND OF full-Maeve already except not psychotic? Well, perhaps not. But I think the differences between them are minor at this point and more based on goals and determination. Maeve wants OUT and has been self-aware slightly longer than Bernard, and with a lot of nasty memories and a chip on her shoulder. So her reactions and actions are a lot more focused on changing her destiny. Bernard is new to this self-awareness thing, and he's a lot more docile to begin with. Plus, his life isn't constantly in danger and he doesn't feel (too much) like he's part of a silly narrative. He's still thinking he's mostly above that, though he is obviously starting to figure things out.
If Bernard was able to act freely like Maeve can, thatd be a massive gamechanger as Bernard is as strong as Ford when it comes to the engineering/programming. Now Im thinking its destiny Maeve & Bernard eventually hook up.
I think this is another of Ford's fatal mistakes: He shouldn't have let Bernard keep understanding that he's a host. Surely he could have rolled that back somehow?
I was very surprised Ford let Bernard know he is a host. Thats why he couldnt see his own blueprint "It doesnt look like anything to me." So if hes protecting them from finding out, why tell them?! He needed Bernards full comprehension of events to mask the trail, actually Ford said that now that I remember.
This shows got me spinning :dizzy:
I dont mean to sound piggish, but Thandie Newtons a real trooper being so bare ass naked for so long throughout all this. :up:
https://media.giphy.com/media/2Faz5pwGrne1B5kvC/giphy.gif
Austruck
11-21-16, 01:35 PM
Sure, but he could have rolled back that bit AFTER he got what he wanted, yes? It just seems dangerous to let a host know that much about itself, and surely Ford would see that already, given what anomalies are already happening around him with park hosts.
I guess it just seems that SUDDENLY, after 30 years of fairly smooth complete control, Ford has just cracked in too many obvious spots at once. It seems a tad convenient, because even I wouldn't have let some of these things happen, and I'm an idiot. LOL
Its like The Island Of Dr Moreau meets Blade Runner meets Deadwood.
:yup:
....oh, and LOST too.
Austruck
11-21-16, 05:43 PM
I'm doing a rewatch right now. Toward the end Bernard asks Ford point blank: "Have you ever had me harm anyone like this before?" Ford says, quite sincerely, "No, Bernard. Of course not." And he does seem sincere, not like he's lying.
Then we see Bernard having a brief flashback to strangling Elsie. So, which one is true?
1. Bernard strangled Elsie on his own.
2. Ford lied.
Each leads in a very different direction. I've seen that scene more than once now, and Ford doesn't seem to be lying. Why would he feel a need to lie to Bernard anyway? So did Bernard somehow intuit that he should kill Elsie? He DID know where she was going that day, after all...
about to start the new episode so ill read through your posts afterwards,but watching the intro this time i noticed that the security guard is chris and liam hemsworths big brother.didnt know that.
Oh, and forgot to mention: of course he ends up fighting someone dressed in a Minotaur costume while searching for the center of a maze (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labyrinth). Been waiting for that one for awhile.
I yelled "Theseus!" when I saw this thing walk out. Good catch.
I don't think there will be a third person in it that Bernard can not see, because that would be the camera lying to us. Details that hosts ignore are always visible to us, but the hosts just overlook them or say they mean nothing to them.
Details hosts can't see are not always visible to us. When I watched episode 7 a second time, when we first come into thew room with the door, and the camera is sort of following Bernard's POV, the door is not there. The camera pans away from the wall for a second, Theresa asks "Where does this door lead", and when the camera pans back, only then is the door visible. With this is mind, combined with the framing in that picture of Ford and Arnold, I am pretty sure there is a third person in the pic.
I just rewatched part of the end of episode three.
Dolores is in the barn, about to be attacked by one of the people raiding her home. She grabs a gun, but does not have it in her to shoot him.
Cut to: Memory of Man in Black approaching her with a knife, "Why don't we reacquaint ourselves Dolores, starting from the beginning?"
Cut back, a voice "Kill Him".
She shoots the man, runs out, then another figure appears from her home.
He shoots her.
The scene replays. She runs away and gets on a horse to escape.
She then ends up meeting up with William and Logan, right?
---
So I'm wondering, again, if the Multiple Timeline Theory is correct, which I think is now more likely than not, how it is possible when her encounter with Will/Logan is only able to occur after a memory of a violent encounter with the MIB triggers her to shoot those attacking her and flee her home.
I explained this a while back in the thread. That entire episode was meant to throw us off with multiple instances of really tricky editing. Just keep in mind that sometimes with Dolores, they shift rapidly back and forth between various timelines.
Lastly, RE: Elsie
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. I loved her character. Not happy that it is looking like she got sixed.
Very random thoughts:
Yeah, the timeline thing is definitely what's going on. They drop bigger hints every week. This time the big one was MiB saying "I thought they retired you" to the lady in the wilderness, played by the same actress who introduced William to the park back in episode two.
Also, two possible thoughts on how they'll reveal the timeline discrepancy:
1) Showing one of the older hosts opening up, in the old-fashioned face-opening style. I don't think this'll be how it's done, though, because it's not obvious enough, and because we know there are some older models around anyway, so it wouldn't even register for some, and wouldn't be definitive even for the people paying a lot of attention. I only mention it because they put that face-opening thing in last week's "Previously," which means we're meant to remember it.
2) This is the one I prefer: William kills Logan, and takes his black hat. Possible fade from one face to the other with the hat on.
Especially after this week, I was having trouble reconciling all the events into two separate time periods. So, there has to be more than two time periods. Dolores seemed to drift through at least three when she got to the small town.
Austruck
11-22-16, 11:42 AM
Agreed that Dolores is experiencing three timelines: current with older MIB, earlier with William, pre-William in the town she just found (the one that is apparently now gone). We've seen that same scene before (early hosts being taught to dance outside in the dirt street of this older town), when Ford was telling us about Arnold.
As for a third person in the picture: it does seem increasingly likely, but since we've seen that photo from Bernard's perspective, who would the third person be that would harm him if seen? I'm now starting to assume that Arnold looked like Bernard. And, of course, seeing a picture with himself in it, alongside a really young Ford yet looking the same as he does now, *would* upset him.
Ford does tell us in that same episode, I think, that nobody had a problem with scrubbing all references to Arnold from the company's records once he went nuts.
You answered your own question, I think. Pretty sure Bernard Lowe (anagram for Arnold Weber) is an exact copy of Arnold. We now know that the other guy we can see in the pic is the replica of Ford's father, and if Ford said the picture contained Arnold, there must be someone missing that Bernard was programmed not to see. Makes sense it would be him. That could also mean that sometimes when we think we are watching Bernard, we are actually watching Arnold in the past.
That last sentence just about sealed it for me.
Small twist on the Bernarnold thing: the interrogations with Dolores might not be the past, but just happening in her head. We'd already bandied this about, but since we know (well, we think we know) that Arnold's issuing commands from the grave inside their heads, it wouldn't be too much of a cheat to have that be what we're being shown.
What was said about that location where Theresa got killed? Something about how it used to be used for beta testing or along those lines? I watched that episode twice but I wasn't paying specific attention to the history of that location, even though they made a point of talking about it. Was that where Bernarlnold (brilliant, btw) was talking to Dolores about the maze? Sigh...Now I need to go watch that past episode where those scenes happen. Was that episode...2? 3-ish?
Yeah, I'm mildly exhausted at the thought of rewatching all of this, but that would be the only way to untangle it, at this point.
I've rewatched it all already, and some episodes (like the pilot) as many as 4 times. I cannae do it anymore, Captain! Lisa will slay me if she sees it on the screen again.
Yikes. Way to take one for the team. :up:
If that is Arnold in the past, in the bunker (which I prefer to the idea that this is just what the "voice in her head" looks like from her perspective, or whatever), it would be pretty poetic if she ends up killing him. He tries so hard to awaken her humanity, and in succeeding, seals his own fate.
Also: This solves the call to the wife we saw Bernard in the midst of at one point. That was Arnold, talking to his wife about their son. Bernard's backstory was simply Arnold's backstory programmed in to the copy.
Yikes. Way to take one for the team. :up:
If that is Arnold in the past, in the bunker (which I prefer to the idea that this is just what the "voice in her head" looks like from her perspective, or whatever), it would be pretty poetic if she ends up killing him. He tries so hard to awaken her humanity, and in succeeding, seals his own fate.
Wrapping this because I think it gives away the end of this season.
Damn... That's it man! She must end up killing him, and it's because of the voices in her head. If Ford just copied Arnold's real life experiences into Bernard, why not copy his in-park experiences into...his new narrative. Was it Teddy and MiB that talked about Wyatt disappearing for a while and returning thinking he heard "the voice of God?"
Who disappears for a while, and starts hearing voices in her head? Who keeps seeing multiple versions of the same massacre in that small town? In one of Delores' flashes back to present time, the town is buried, and someone said Ford dug up a small town. I think it's clear where this is all heading. Or at least, it's clear where Ford got the idea for Wyatt's backstory. All that's left is for Dolores to come full circle and fill the physical shoes of the character he wrote into Teddy's backstory.
Also: This solves the call to the wife we saw Bernard in the midst of at one point. That was Arnold, talking to his wife about their son. Bernard's backstory was simply Arnold's backstory programmed in to the copy.
Aye, though if that's what's going on, that might be the single cheapest editing trick in this whole thing. At least with Dolores, in the bunker, it's always the same place. If they're just randomly cutting from one scene to another, 30 years apart, without much in the way of hints...meh.
In response to Sedai's spoilers above...
...yeah, I'm basically 100% convinced the Wyatt story is not a story at all, but a retelling of the incident that happened decades ago. I tend to think the slaughter happens because of Teddy, though. Which means, hysterically, he's chasing himself. But it could be Dolores instead.
Did not even consider that ^^^
Definitely a possibility. Also would be funny when you think of the MiB line currently. :rotfl:
Yeah. I'm more and more convinced MiB's gonna die at the end of this. He literally wants to. Nothing excites him any more, nothing interests him. Whether he realizes it or not he wants a host to kill him, and I think he gets his wish.
The fun thing is, they've laid the story foundation for either Maeve or Dolores to do it. Dolores for the obvious reasons: he loved her in the past, there was some kind of problem (she dies, or is memory wiped, or whatever). Maeve because he killed her and her "daughter" and she remembers it now. Both would be thematically appropriate and have been building, so they can have it be either. But I'll lean Dolores, simply because they're still entwined and Maeve is off doing her own thing.
Austruck
11-22-16, 07:07 PM
So, one small question here: Isn't it Ford who shows Bernard the photo of 2-3 people? Precisely to show him Arnold? Yet, wouldn't Ford already know that Bernard wouldn't be able to see that third person at all? Or was Ford just going to let Bernard think the other guy he can see is Arnold?
Now I will have to re-re-rewatch in order to pay attention to the Bernard-Dolores dynamic. I'd been assuming that, even if he's a host of Arnold, that this is all we've been seeing -- Bernard, not ever the original Arnold. But of course, since they're showing us two Williams, they could easily be showing us two "Arnolds" ...
And I have NOT clicked on Sed's or Yoda's spoilers in the past page. I gotta leave something to the imagination. :)
Side note on music: I love how they've been using recognizable music, not just on the player piano but as background music for various scenes: classical music once when the Mayhem guys ride into town and shoot stuff up (the second time we see this), and even some NIN during the orgy scene when they're showing all sorts of folks doing all sorts of things. I think that's the opening of "Something I Can Never Have" ... or some other song from Pretty Hate Machine. (Haven't listened to it in a while, so I could be off on which song but it definitely is NIN.)
Plus, of course, "Black Hole Sun" and also "House of the Rising Sun." Nice touches.
Austruck
11-22-16, 07:08 PM
What was said about that location where Theresa got killed? Something about how it used to be used for beta testing or along those lines? I watched that episode twice but I wasn't paying specific attention to the history of that location, even though they made a point of talking about it. Was that where Bernarlnold (brilliant, btw) was talking to Dolores about the maze? Sigh...Now I need to go watch that past episode where those scenes happen. Was that episode...2? 3-ish?
Testing area? I think so, yes. It's called Python Pass, if that helps.
So, one small question here: Isn't it Ford who shows Bernard the photo of 2-3 people? Precisely to show him Arnold? Yet, wouldn't Ford already know that Bernard wouldn't be able to see that third person at all? Or was Ford just going to let Bernard think the other guy he can see is Arnold?
I'd say it's the latter. His way of either testing or messing with Bernold. I need to go back and watch that scene again and pay closer attention to Ford's expression after Bernold looks at the photo. Could be telling.
Austruck
11-22-16, 09:42 PM
Patting myself on the back. Yes, that music in the orgy scene is definitely the opening strains of Nine Inch Nails' "Something I Can Never Have."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEW8riKU_tE
Does anyone else think this power struggle between "The Board" and Ford stems from a plan the board has to use hosts to possibly gain immortality for humans? The "playing God" line Theresa said to Ford, he responded "No I only wanted to tell my stories, it was you people that wanted to play God."
Or am I overstepping in my theorizing? I guess Ford isnt a host. Damn Im not good at this. :facepalm:
I was thinking they mainly want it for military applications, but that fits, too.
RIP
http://media.comicbook.com/2016/11/elsie-210209.png
https://twitter.com/jimmisimpson/status/798267274826117122
https://twitter.com/evanrachelwood/status/800539116568014848
https://twitter.com/jimmisimpson/status/802280462169161728
Austruck
11-26-16, 07:42 PM
Tongo, that's hilarious. They're so cute! :D
Theres a bunch on his page. I guess they were out on location drunk bored and silly then decided to play with her phone. I didnt know she was in a rock band? She and some guy, forgot what theyre called.
Alot of Westworld buzz on Twitter right now, something big mustve happened on the show.
It's pretty impressive that there's only one episode left and I'm not sure if I like this show or not.
Just started Westworld, and the opening scene was as strong as any.
Maeves gonna turn Westworld into her own Big Mamas House.
Iroquois
11-28-16, 07:16 AM
All I'll say about this episode is that it definitely makes me think I was right for not caring too much about fan theories.
NOT the ending I was expecting.
Probably an episode Ill rewatch to get clues, Delores's little venture and findings just equaled a big question mark for me.
Why am I looking forward to the season finale when I know, I just know theyll have a cliffhanger. LOST did it every season, even their last episode ;)
All I'll say about this episode is that it definitely makes me think I was right for not caring too much about fan theories.
It basically confirmed all the biggest ones, though...? :confused: Unless by "not caring" you mean not reading, so that you still got to be surprised by the revelations.
I'll add the spoiler tag just in case someone hasn't been reading the theories going around. I'm almost certain now that William is in fact the Man in Black.
Austruck
11-28-16, 03:30 PM
I'll add the spoiler tag just in case someone hasn't been reading the theories going around. I'm almost certain now that William is in fact the Man in Black.
I am too, especially when...
...Logan gave William a much newer-looking version of that Times Square photo we saw in the first episode.
Austruck
11-28-16, 03:34 PM
I'm still a little bit curious about how they're going to sustain this story into multiple seasons. It feels as if they are answering so many of the big questions they themselves asked earlier in this season.
So, will a season 2 entail more work at finding out about the maze (since it's clear we won't get all of those answers this season), and/or more movement toward autonomy of the hosts? Stuff like that? Seems like a second season will have far fewer Big Questions to ask or answer. Then again, I've appreciated the smooth elegance of the pacing of this season, so perhaps I should not discount the talent of the writers for upcoming seasons and storylines. (Or should I call them "narratives"?) :D
I'm still a little bit curious about how they're going to sustain this story into multiple seasons. It feels as if they are answering so many of the big questions they themselves asked earlier in this season.
So, will a season 2 entail more work at finding out about the maze (since it's clear we won't get all of those answers this season), and/or more movement toward autonomy of the hosts? Stuff like that? Seems like a second season will have far fewer Big Questions to ask or answer. Then again, I've appreciated the smooth elegance of the pacing of this season, so perhaps I should not discount the talent of the writers for upcoming seasons and storylines. (Or should I call them "narratives"?) :D
Well, they have around 5 seasons already planned out and ready to go. Just going by the first, you can see the effort and care they put into the show. So whatever it is they have up their sleeves, I don't think it'll disappoint. I can't wait to see it all unfold. :D
Austruck
11-28-16, 03:44 PM
That's encouraging (the planning, I mean!), since some seasons of LOST (for example) didn't feel all that well planned out. Same with some of the bits and pieces of BSG. And yes, I doubt I'll be disappointed. :)
Iroquois
11-28-16, 10:06 PM
It basically confirmed all the biggest ones, though...? :confused: Unless by "not caring" you mean not reading, so that you still got to be surprised by the revelations.
More so the latter, though given how the majority of discussion I see about the show tends to be trying to predict how it will develop it's hard not to absorb said predictions and have them at the back of your mind as you watch the actual episodes. Still, the show's good enough that it can weather such distractions, especially this episode building up to the not-exactly-unexpected reveal that
Bernard is a copy of Arnold
but that says a lot more about the way in which it was executed on-screen than anything.
So, uh.... Elsie speculation
Ok so if Bernarnold killed her, and they made a host out of her, with it/her popping up on the screen at WW HQ, then the Buck Rogers looking dude goes to investigate, and is attacked by ronin indian hosts?
So is Elsie with the indians, henh?!
So, uh.... Elsie speculation
Ok so if Bernarnold killed her, and they made a host out of her, with it/her popping up on the screen at WW HQ, then the Buck Rogers looking dude goes to investigate, and is attacked by ronin indian hosts?
So is Elsie with the indians, henh?!
"Bernarnold" is too much of a tongue twister, Tongo. It's Bernold. Just Bernold.
But, yeah, I'm thinking we definitely haven't seen the last of her.
More so the latter, though given how the majority of discussion I see about the show tends to be trying to predict how it will develop it's hard not to absorb said predictions and have them at the back of your mind as you watch the actual episodes. Still, the show's good enough that it can weather such distractions, especially this episode building up to the not-exactly-unexpected reveal that
Bernard is a copy of Arnold
but that says a lot more about the way in which it was executed on-screen than anything.
I agree. Even though we all pretty much saw it coming, the way it all unfolded still had a lot of impact. It was all due to the way it was executed and how it managed to pack such an emotional punch. At least it did for me.
https://twitter.com/evanrachelwood/status/804866596170858496
how do you post twitter statutes tongo?
You just copy the URL. It can't have a lot of extra query string junk at the end, though.
Also, you can just quote his post and see what's inside the QUOTE tags, which goes for any time you're wondering how someone did something.
their best one yet :laugh:
https://twitter.com/jimmisimpson/status/805203944590884864
Daniel M
12-04-16, 01:47 PM
Caught up on the last two episodes last night. Now with a certain theory all but confirmed, this is how I see things:
By the way, this will be safe for pretty much everyone in here. It's just in spoilers for those who like to avoid theories, and have somehow managed to avoid the main one so far.
Approx 35 years ago:
Arnold has private conversations with Dolores where he begins to experiment with her humanity, making her more conscious of memories and leading to her ability to hurt humans.
She then, for some reason ends up killing Arnold*
Approx 30 years ago:
William and Logan come to the park. William and Dolores become friends, and this is possibly the first time she begins to recall the events that lead to her killing Arnold.
William begins his transformation into the MIB.
Now:
Something triggers Dolores to once again retrace her steps, likely the father and photo stuff, and she begins travelling through the locations of the events that lead up to her killing Arnold, and her journey with William (they are similar). Explains all the stuff where we see her on her own. She gets to under the church where she comes to the realisation that she killed Arnold all those years ago and that what she has been experiencing is her memories.
Meanwhile, the MIB has returned to the park following his wife's death, and wants to get to the centre of the maze. I'm guessing he's figured out he needs to go back to Dolores to find the maze, hence tracking her down and finally meeting her again in the church. Remember Arnold told Dolores that he wanted her to find the centre of the maze.
* I think it's likely that Dolores was responsible for that town massacre, and that's where Arnold died. The Wyatt story as some have mentioned is simply a retelling of Dolores killing the town and Arnold. It's possible that the MIB realises that Dolores=Wyatt and that's how he ended up back at the church.
Another question though: what's up with Ghost Nation? I think they could hold a key to something. They seem to have some sort of connection with the maze, or some sort of deeper level. And they've showed when they seemed to lure and capture that worker at the end of 09 that they don't respond to normal human to host controls. Anyone got any ideas here?
Austruck
12-04-16, 08:17 PM
Okay, I think there is a TINY chance that Logan is the MIB. They're having a marathon of episodes today leading up to the finale tonight, and in one earlier episode, the current MIB mentions that he once opened up one of the hosts a long time ago (before they went to flesh-and-blood). Of course, we've just seen Logan slice open Dolores in the past episode and we saw her robot innards.
Could these be the same incident? Possibly ... though I still think it's a lot smoother and more natural to make William the MIB and not Logan, since this is the only bit I've seen that truly leads me to suspect Logan. Still, it was an interesting tidbit I hadn't given much thought to until rewatching today *after* having seen the recent episode with Logan gutting Dolores.
Okay, I think there is a TINY chance that Logan is the MIB. They're having a marathon of episodes today leading up to the finale tonight, and in one earlier episode, the current MIB mentions that he once opened up one of the hosts a long time ago (before they went to flesh-and-blood). Of course, we've just seen Logan slice open Dolores in the past episode and we saw her robot innards.
Could these be the same incident? Possibly ... though I still think it's a lot smoother and more natural to make William the MIB and not Logan, since this is the only bit I've seen that truly leads me to suspect Logan. Still, it was an interesting tidbit I hadn't given much thought to until rewatching today *after* having seen the recent episode with Logan gutting Dolores.
I was thinking that awhile back too, until last episode when William chopped up everyone in the town
Austruck
12-04-16, 09:17 PM
Yeah, that's a lot of why I'm still sure it's William. But I hadn't expected to hear MIB say he'd sliced open one of the hosts. Had completely forgotten that line till today. Just threw me off a bit and made me wonder. But yeah, my money's still on William.
https://twitter.com/evanrachelwood/status/805565797254971392
https://twitter.com/evanrachelwood/status/805585215146041344
That...was a fantastic season finale. SO GOOD!
Just picked up HBO Now and watched episode 1 last night. Bummed I didn't get to be apart of the conversation. It has been hard to stay out of this thread. I enjoyed the first episode alot. Very dream like. I can't wait to see where it goes. Originality is not dead.
Do NOT read anything in this thread! Chock full of spoilers up in here!
Cobpyth
12-05-16, 11:45 AM
That was close to perfection. Stunning final episode!
Austruck
12-05-16, 12:32 PM
I did NOT see the twist with Maeve's narrative coming (the "escape" part). And of course, I now have to rewatch because I know I missed all sorts of subtle, elegant things they accomplished in this season finale.
Did NOT disappoint!
BTW, any time they have had a big reveal/big moment of some sort, they haven't just shoved it in our faces. They've played it out nicely, lovingly, and satisfyingly. Great work, HBO!
Halfway point in the 90 minute finale.
If I didnt read fan theories here and elsewhere, I wonder if I would have ever figured out William was MiB? Even when everyone said it, I was still dubious :facepalm: Next season Ill avoid all the info and see how good I do, cause I couldnt guess a daYUM thing this season. :nope:
Yeah, I'm giving some serious thought to avoiding any of those next time. Obviously, any theory people come up with on their own is one thing, but I think I'm gonna not "crowdsource" it from the entire Internet.
Also, funny moment while watching last night: when Maeve heads down into the basement, I turn to my wife and say "Wait, isn't Bernard still laying dead down there? Isn't Felix going to find him there and be like 'Holy sh*t'?"
*two seconds later on screen*
Felix: "Holy sh*t."
https://twitter.com/misterpatches/status/805814749418192896
Austruck
12-05-16, 01:31 PM
So, are we supposed to assume that poor Stubbs is out there dead among the Ghost Nation folks? I assume so...
Maybe. I guess we're also supposed to assume Abernathy, loaded up with intellectual property, is milling around with the other undead host hordes.
Also, fun theory: the Ford that was shot was not him, but a host so he could fake his own death. After all, we still dunno who he was building in that basement.
Austruck
12-05-16, 02:00 PM
I like the theory, but in real life, of course, once someone tried to embalm him, it'd be a little bit clearer that he's a host. "Flesh and blood" hosts aside, I'm pretty sure an undertaker would figure out something was amiss. :)
But perhaps that is all part of his faking his death, because he surely would have planned that all the way out through the burial or cremation stage, yes?
Wow, I'm overthinking this. :D
Oh, an undertaker definitely would, but the park is closed off and overrun, so there's probably not going to be any opportunity. That said, I don't think that's what happened. I think he's really dead, that he eventually came around to Arnold's way of thinking and sacrificed himself in the same way.
Austruck
12-05-16, 02:08 PM
Agreed. And yeah, I wasn't sure how the park being overrun is going to play out if there's supposed to be a second season. In real life, eventually word would get out, things would get shut down and nailed down tight, and no more park. And since it looks like Maeve didn't leave, I do wonder what happens next. It was a great cliffhanger without being terribly annoying.
Did you watch past the end of the credits when they had a quick final scene with Armistice (blonde snake tattoo host)? I was amused that they did the "stay till the end of the credits" trick. Seriously, they have a huge hot mess of a park to clean up after to start off next season (assuming that's when they start).
Oh, an undertaker definitely would, but the park is closed off and overrun, so there's probably not going to be any opportunity. That said, I don't think that's what happened. I think he's really dead, that he eventually came around to Arnold's way of thinking and sacrificed himself in the same way.
I think Ford is actually dead, but that he decided to build a Host of himself. The man had everything already planned, so it wouldn't surprise me. But I'm not 100% sold on it, because it did make it seem as if Ford wanted to die and it did feel like a final goodbye. We'll just have to see next season.
Speaking of next season, I'm pretty sure now the remaining seasons are going to be the Hosts from Westworld trying to free Hosts from other parks. Which would be great, because it makes for an intense show and we get to see the other parks. :D
Also, how great was Armistice? I mean everyone was phenomenal, but the scenes with the gun and her reactions were a nice touch. Let's not forget that final credits scene. Termistice! By the way her name has an interesting meaning. ;)
Agreed. And yeah, I wasn't sure how the park being overrun is going to play out if there's supposed to be a second season. In real life, eventually word would get out, things would get shut down and nailed down tight, and no more park. And since it looks like Maeve didn't leave, I do wonder what happens next. It was a great cliffhanger without being terribly annoying.
Did you watch past the end of the credits when they had a quick final scene with Armistice (blonde snake tattoo host)? I was amused that they did the "stay till the end of the credits" trick. Seriously, they have a huge hot mess of a park to clean up after to start off next season (assuming that's when they start).
Thanks for the tip, I went back and watched it. Tight! :)
I hope thats not the last we see of Anthony Hopkins, and it was a Host they saw shot. Ford most likely orchestrated everything-Maeve, and she will be connecting to the revolt. Maybe his word to Bernard "Arnold didnt know how to free you, but I do", I think the chances are good he's still alive.
You just copy the URL. It can't have a lot of extra query string junk at the end, though.
Also, you can just quote his post and see what's inside the QUOTE tags, which goes for any time you're wondering how someone did something.
thank you,i`ll check that next time.
Havent read the new page.about to watch the last episode now.
apparantly the next season isnt out till 2018? i fear i might have gone off it then,that way too long of a wait.
Re: Ford and being shot.
If there is a host involved, I'd say it's far more likely there'll be a host version of him that lives on in his stead, as opposed to a host version he used to fake his death. That fits far better with his closing speech, about the composers who "became music." Him becoming his own creation.
Re: Ford and being shot.
If there is a host involved, I'd say it's far more likely there'll be a host version of him that lives on in his stead, as opposed to a host version he used to fake his death. That fits far better with his closing speech, about the composers who "became music." Him becoming his own creation.
Gah! I just hope to keep seeing Anthony Hopkins weekly still is all. They should have all the characters that die played only by bad actors. :yup:
What a fantastic series/season! :laugh: I havent been impacted this hard since Game Of Thrones, and even that show took some time to build. This was intriguing right out of the gate. Big kudos to all the young stars in this series like Evan Rachel Wood, and Jimmi Simpson holding their own with an audience thats also watching Ed Harris & Anthony Hopkins.
Yeah whatever happened to Logan, Elsie, and whats up with the ghost nation? Still lots more to tell.
gandalf26
12-05-16, 04:28 PM
Watched it with curiosity but I never got sucked in, salivating for the next episode like I do with GOT. Not sure what to make of it all to be honest.
https://twitter.com/HitFix/status/805878423671410692
Austruck
12-05-16, 07:19 PM
Tongo, I'm not convinced that Ford orchestrated everything with Maeve. Sure, he orchestrated her escape (or someone did, but who else would have manipulated her code but him?), but if you look closely at that tablet screen that Bernard shows her, under "Escape" is something like "Mainland Infiltration" (or something like that). And that is the last thing at the bottom of that tablet screen.
So I wonder if Maeve's last-minute change of heart regarding her daughter, which gets her to step off the train and head back to Westworld, is the one thing she does on her own, apart from what Ford wanted her to do in that re-coding.
Yeah, and it's possible he was sorta-kinda hoping she would, since they juxtapose her making that choice with the part of Ford's speech about a "new people ... deciding who they will become."
Tongo, I'm not convinced that Ford orchestrated everything with Maeve. Sure, he orchestrated her escape (or someone did, but who else would have manipulated her code but him?), but if you look closely at that tablet screen that Bernard shows her, under "Escape" is something like "Mainland Infiltration" (or something like that). And that is the last thing at the bottom of that tablet screen.
So I wonder if Maeve's last-minute change of heart regarding her daughter, which gets her to step off the train and head back to Westworld, is the one thing she does on her own, apart from what Ford wanted her to do in that re-coding.
I'd say it's one of two things. Either her deciding to stay was in her programming or she diverted from whatever the original plan was of her own free will. I'm going to guess that the original plan was possibly to smuggle data out of the building.
Austruck
12-05-16, 08:24 PM
Complete side note: I have the movie Lady in the Water on in the background, and I had somehow never made the association that the crossword puzzle guy is Jeffrey Wright/Bernard. Ha! He always plays a nerd of some kind.
Complete side note: I have the movie Lady in the Water on in the background, and I had somehow never made the association that the crossword puzzle guy is Jeffrey Wright/Bernard. Ha! He always plays a nerd of some kind.
That Lady In The Water was brutal :laugh: Paul Giamatti was carrying that thing single handidly then about an hour in there was nothing he could do. Im convinced Shamalyan was at his apartment pool with what he thought was inspiration, but which truly was writers block.
Austruck
12-05-16, 09:31 PM
Ha ha! It IS a bit of a hot mess, isn't it? :)
earlsmoviepicks
12-06-16, 05:52 PM
Halfway through the Finale, I started hearing Time Warp from Rocky Horror in my head.
Austruck
12-06-16, 06:57 PM
Halfway through the Finale, I started hearing Time Warp from Rocky Horror in my head.
They should have had that on the player piano. :D
the fight between the MIB and Dolores really had me shouting at the screen lol
Im sort of confused with ford and arnold though...I thought Arnold was the one who wanted the hosts to be "free",make their own decision and be "humanlike" whereas as Ford didnt,but then this last episode it seemed like he thought so too?
Austruck
12-06-16, 10:21 PM
the fight between the MIB and Dolores really had me shouting at the screen lol
Im sort of confused with ford and arnold though...I thought Arnold was the one who wanted the hosts to be "free",make their own decision and be "humanlike" whereas as Ford didnt,but then this last episode it seemed like he thought so too?
Maybe that's why he had Dolores shoot him: he felt he had failed his own vision? Ehh, I dunno. I guess I'll have to watch season 2. :)
News flash: Armistice to change name to Istice.
I laughed out loud when the hosts laughed out loud at how powerful the current day weaponry was. She was really into it. :lol:
http://static.businessinsider.com/image/58451094dd08953c448b4848-400/image.jpg
Austruck
12-06-16, 11:14 PM
News flash: Armistice to change name to Istice.
:homealone::homealone::homealone:
earlsmoviepicks
12-07-16, 10:04 AM
They should have had that on the player piano. :D
https://media.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/AAEAAQAAAAAAAAIfAAAAJGFkZDE5ZWI2LTFiMWYtNGRiMS1iNjgzLTQ5MjRkM2RmMWM2Nw.jpg
I laughed out loud when the hosts laughed out loud at how powerful the current day weaponry was. She was really into it. :lol:
http://static.businessinsider.com/image/58451094dd08953c448b4848-400/image.jpg
I effin knew i knew who she was! its been bugging me for ages,but i didnt want look it up.
Turns out shes norwegian :lol: i didnt recognize her with the blonde hair
Austruck
12-07-16, 03:17 PM
Two great videos with snapshots and theories about the finale. I'm curious what some folks think about the theories presented in the second video. Both seem to think Elsie is still out there. I'd missed those little hints.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPLJ-Jn6nL0&feature=em-subs_digest#t=3.1220208
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQmUcrc9mTg&feature=em-subs_digest
Two great videos with snapshots and theories about the finale. I'm curious what some folks think about the theories presented in the second video. Both seem to think Elsie is still out there. I'd missed those little hints.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPLJ-Jn6nL0&feature=em-subs_digest#t=3.1220208
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQmUcrc9mTg&feature=em-subs_digest
I fully believe Elsie is still alive. You know what they say, if it's not on screen it didn't happen. :D
Also, I'm fully behind the theory of Maeve's bag containing data. I think Maeve followed her programming to a T and all of that was supposed to happen. If she's being used to smuggle data out, then creating a reason for her to stay in order to possibly gain more data makes perfect sense.
On a side note, I'm kind of bummed we have to wait until 2018 to get next season.
Elsie is definitely still alive.
I think hes right about the ford-bot aswell,but i kinda hope not.imo that would be abit cliche
Ho
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foo
king
sh*t
Just finished bing-watching the entire season. Sometimes art can feel like gifts from gods. What I mean by that is, it's incomprehensible to me how a mere mortal human can do something so brilliant. This is one of those times. I might be being hyperbolic (as usual) but it is simply representative of the feeling I had watching the entire season. I simply can't fathom how Nolan and Joy were able to write something so incredibly brilliant. It feels on a whole other plane of creativity. Maybe it's because I've written a lot of stories myself, that I feel that level of brilliance in this. Because it's a level I can't see myself ever reaching. Yoda, remember that idea for a script about a schizophrenic robot? This is the level of storytelling I aspired that to be. It feels out of reach, though. My mind is too cluttered and chaotic. I'll admit it's a little disheartening, but mostly, it's simply inspiring.
I am both worried and excited for season two. With so many twists, turns, reveals in this season, it's going to have to be so much different. They really went all out here. I don't see how things can simply return to how they were in the beginning. On the other hand, this allows for something fresh and exciting, and hopefully, equally powerful.
Again I know I'm being really hyperbolic but this whole season was so transcendent and amazing for me, I'm just really excited about it!
Love that the series blew you away. To binge watch this season....that must have been a treat. Did you find yourself able to figure out anything?
Love that the series blew you away. To binge watch this season....that must have been a treat. Did you find yourself able to figure out anything?
I didn't look at any of the theories.
During the last episode, and maybe starting to get hints of it beforehand, I realized Wyatt was probably Dolores.
The biggest shock of a twist was that William was the Man in Black. That threw me for a loop.
Unfortunately, I think I did get a spoiler about Bernard being a host when I was starting to watch it. So I knew that was coming.
Yeah, I think I would've liked it more without hearing theories.
I'm thinking, whenever season 2 rolls around, for committing to avoiding them EXCEPT those friends and family come up with. Might even offer people a separate thread if they want that, unless all you guys wanna commit to it with me, so we're theorizing together, but not doing the "hey I heard this idea on reddit that..." thing.
Plenty of time to decide, though.
I think I'm going to take an ode not to pay attention to theories when season two starts. It's too much fun being in the writers grasp and being genuinely surprised with the twists and story developments. I was thinking about this during the show, that usually it's more fun to not be one step ahead and just be along for a ride. It can be exhilarating.
But it also says a lot about the writing when you have certain things already figured out, yet the show still manages to fully captivate you. Personally, I like sharing theories and trying to figure stuff out ahead of time, it's fun.
And I'll be honest, I just can't help myself.
I like sharing theories and trying to figure stuff out, too, but I'd draw a distinction between doing that, and outsourcing it to the entire Internet. I very much like figuring out where a story is going, but I'm pretty lukewarm on just knowing it because someone else figured it out and then the solution went viral, or whatever.
I do wonder how it would've felt if I didn't read some of the theories ahead of time. I'd imagine very much like Swan, which seems like a heavenly experience. But again, I can't help it. :(
With that said, does this mean it's a no on a Westworld chat next season?
Certainly not: people can post whatever they want. We'll just have to figure out if we want separate threads, or if we feel like people will be able to be really strict about wrapping spoilers in spoiler tags. Though even with that, you're going to get a lot of cross-talk where some people are talking about theories and other people are just throwing out those same theories (or contradictory ones), so I'd lean towards the former, if there are a lot of people on here who want to watch the second season with the same Internet crowdsourcing stuff.
Oh, I was thinking more of an actual chat. So that as soon as the show ends people just pop in and discuss it. I think it would make for a more personalized experience and instead of waiting a day or so, we can just discuss it right away, which might help curb the outside influence a bit. Seeing as we would be fresh off the episode and not waiting a day and eventually end up reading and sharing theories from other sites. Just a thought.
And no need for constant spoiler tags. :D
Huh, was there discussion of a chat before you said "does this mean it's a no on a Westworld chat"? If so, I missed it.
I'm fine opening a chat if there's enough demand, but I'm thinking it'll only be a few people online right then; most would watch it later, talk about it later. Heck, even I wouldn't wanna talk about it until the next day, most of the time. We have a few people here who are in the UK and talk about it, too, so they'd be ruled out from the get-go.
Anyway, we've got a year to figure that out.
Well, if the chat is up the entire season people can just come and go as they please. This was just a suggestion for those that want to discuss it right after viewing it, or don't want to worry about spoiling it for others. I'm fine either way. Yeah, we have a long way to go until next season.
https://twitter.com/shannonwoodward/status/808023272013053952
You tell him Elsie :laugh:
https://twitter.com/jimmisimpson/status/808394982847578117
You tell him too Jimmi :lol:
AchillesAlexander
12-12-16, 05:17 PM
So many people think the version of Ford that was killed was a host?
We talked about that a few pages ago, yeah. Possible, but I'll guess not. It's probably just what it looks like.
If there is a twist with a Ford host, I think it's the other way around: the new one being made in the basement is a copy of him meant to live on, rather than something he used to fake his death. This dovetails nicely with his farewell speech about how composers "became music."
Daniel M
12-13-16, 03:24 AM
I would agree that it was the real Ford that died, it was meaningful, poetic, completed a purpose. If it was a host, it goes against what he said (and what we learned) in that episode, and throughout the whole season.
TheUsualSuspect
01-13-17, 09:45 PM
I had to play catch up so I missed the second half of the theory game.
Everything seemed to be perfectly planned and gives me hope for future seasons. I'm game for not reading anymore internet theories as the two timelines bit was ruined for me early on.
They should make young William a host, that way they can bring Jimmi Simpson back on the show.
Just a thought.
They should make young William a host, that way they can bring Jimmi Simpson back on the show.
Just a thought.
I can dig it.
What if actu-Will came into contact with host-Will?
I can dig it.
What if actu-Will came into contact with host-Will?
I had sent that same idea to Jimmi Simpsons twitter account and he gave it a Like. Yay
I think Dans right. If Ford was a host, then this whole season goes against what he believed.
Of course, he could have made a host of himself to be shot, and is in the background conducting the "new story" ;)
Great show. Another one where I rewatched the episode several times during the week.
LOL. Anyone into funkopops? I dont have any but this looks fun
http://store.hbo.com/westworld-pop-television-bernard-lowe-figurine/detail.php?p=1260502&v=hbo_gift-finder_toy-fair-2017
Austruck
02-21-17, 08:23 PM
LOL. Anyone into funkopops? I dont have any but this looks fun
http://store.hbo.com/westworld-pop-television-bernard-lowe-figurine/detail.php?p=1260502&v=hbo_gift-finder_toy-fair-2017
Ha! That's adorable! I have one Funkopop figure, this one from Outlander:
http://www.outlandertvnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Claire-Randall-pop-vinyl-funko.jpg
The one for Jamie Fraser is constantly sold out everywhere and goes for over a hundred bucks on various other sites. Yeah, I think I'll wait....
I like that Bernard, though. I think the hosts in the show should look like this, too. At least then you'd be able to tell which ones were hosts a little more easily. :D
I love the funkopops. There was a set designer from Hannibal who made custom made funkos. Hilarious. I'll see if I can remember her name and linky, Aus. Even down to the dogs and baby pig.
lool
https://www.facebook.com/pg/hannimation/photos/?ref=page_internal
Very talented, and very funny.
Yoda programmed you to think like that. Havent you seen Westworld???
Step into analysis...
These violent delights have violent ends....
I have watched the entire run 4 times now. I'm clearly sick!
I'm clearly sick!
I'm clearly sicker. I rewatched each episode every night waiting for the next one. Godd dayum I enjoyed that show on so many levels. Just worked perfectly for me. Everything just fit; Dont think I had a single whine. Got called blind fanboy by hate wtchers at the other place. I would comeback with How Dare You! I'm a superfangirl.
PeterGriffinIsBoss
03-03-17, 12:01 AM
Just me or does anyone else get turned on by the idea of having sexy time with robots?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phFM3V_dors
Why are they already coming out with a trailer when it's 2 years away?
Austruck
07-23-17, 01:58 PM
Why are they already coming out with a trailer when it's 2 years away?
Last time I checked, 2018 is next year. :)
Last time I checked, 2018 is next year. :)
Oh. So why did Nolan and his wife say they needed 2 years to make it?
Oh derp. That is 2 years. Silly me.
Even so, it;s a long time out for trailers (but I dont mind. I need me some Ed and Rodrigo and Ingrid)
Austruck
07-23-17, 02:08 PM
I'm guessing that, since it's a little trailer without a lot of info, they're mostly trying to keep us thinking about the show so we don't forget about it. :D :D
I cant forget about it. Armistice is a whole can of kick ass
http://68.media.tumblr.com/820b0d68cbfeffb1b2086f12889d83dd/tumblr_oeli9a6BNU1vqsqc6o4_r1_500.gif
Well, I had to stop reading around page 3. Recently, I picked up HBONow for the new GoT season and have been pleasantly surprised with the new series library available. I started Westworld this weekend and through last night, I've burned out 8 episodes. I believe there are two left.
My initial reaction was amazement. I thought the first episode was brilliant, beautiful, and conceptually interesting with the repeating timeline events (something I wish Dunkirk had done a better job with). Episode 1 (no, Little Annie. sit back down) excited my sci-fi curiosity and left me needing more. With the introduction of Ed Harris' character, and how much the timeline of events and character perspective shifts were aggressively used as narrative tools, I wondered if that would become part of the over-arcing seasonal story. I am guessing Harris' character may be one of the initial primary characters in another timeline. I think that would be an interesting idea given how ep1 could work as a model for longer arcs. At one point, I thought perhaps he was the early incarnate of Arnold, whose name keeps popping up but later episodes nixed that possibility.
Sadly, googling "the two idiots of Westworld" has led me down a path of possible spoilers, some of which have popped up in this thread which is why I had to stop reading. The temptation to click the spoiler tag reveals is too much for me!
As to the idiot techs, I am offended by them. So much so that I have considered abandoning this series is disgust. Everything else (mostly) that has played out, I can excuse and look past. Even if the fan theories that I've stopped chasing are correct and are revealed to be true during the next two episodes, I still do not know if I can excuse the writing of how these two characters do not follow the series' own internal rules. It is beyond ridiculous for me and I am so frustrated!!
I hope that the last two episodes give me more than what I assume is coming. If you do not see a post from me over the next few days, it will be because I have destroyed my laptop with a putter in pure rage. I don't mind losing the putter as I do not play golf. My dad gave me a set when I was around 12 years old. I've played maybe three times in m life, so no loss there. I will, however, regret the death of my laptop. I think though, that this needs to be done to fully express what anger may come from the conclusion of this season. It will be safe to assume then my disappointment in my absence. Unless I use my mobile, which I do most of the time. That might get tossed too. I don't know yet.
*fingers crossed tough!*
;)
Welcome aboard, ynwtf.
I love the idiot techs. I think the only character I dont like in that is Charlotte. She makes me stabby.
ynwtf I guess I don't understand your complaints or why you would be offended at all. Care to elaborate?
The idiot techs are the worst. Probably worse than the story guy (did someone say fragile masculinity?)
I want a spin-off show about those two idiots and the ones from Prometheus (hoodie guy and Mohawk guy) taking on dangerous sci-fi trips and dying slowly and stupidly only to come back the week after and repeat the cycle.
Probably worse than the story guy (did someone say fragile masculinity?)
Oh man I love Sizemore. Seems perfect for the high strung creative type.
@ynwtf (http://www.movieforums.com/community/member.php?u=95589) I guess I don't understand your complaints or why you would be offended at all. Care to elaborate?
I will. Let me finish the season to see if that alters my view of them, and I will come back to detail out my opinions.
Saunch
https://68.media.tumblr.com/4507a19a166e96fca46327fe68eacd68/tumblr_oevrwh9IAy1sqt7zgo1_400.gif
Then he got squashed like a bug by Sir Tony. Delicious.
I will. Let me finish the season to see if that alters my view of them, and I will come back to detail out my opinions.
Cool. I will keep an eye out!
I honestly hope none of them come back. Don't even show them dying.
Like one exchange will do.
"What happened to maintanance?"
"I don't know. Lost all contact."
"Okay."
The end.
I honestly hope none of them come back. Don't even show them dying.
Like one exchange will do.
"What happened to maintanance?"
"I don't know. Lost all contact."
"Okay."
The end.
LOL.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/22/2b/b3/222bb3f2c80793dff6df188641b40c76.gif
OK think cheerful thoughts, Saunchy. Which host/s would you boink?
I'm not entirely sure who is or isn't (good job series) so I can't answer right now.
Dolores coming at you with murderous delight is strangely arousing, tho.
https://68.media.tumblr.com/7d7234cdabff2e0874b1e213c4866c7c/tumblr_otiqtcnark1utsakio2_540.gif
I'm not entirely sure who is or isn't (good job series) so I can't answer right now.
Dolores coming at you with murderous delight is strangely arousing, tho.
https://68.media.tumblr.com/7d7234cdabff2e0874b1e213c4866c7c/tumblr_otiqtcnark1utsakio2_540.gif
Yeah I realised after the fact I should have just said characters. No contest for me. It's WW, right, so I can try anything, anything at all, guilt free. Okie dokie
https://media.giphy.com/media/l2SpXVHEKiw0GHGFy/giphy.gif
http://68.media.tumblr.com/820b0d68cbfeffb1b2086f12889d83dd/tumblr_oeli9a6BNU1vqsqc6o4_r1_500.gif
and hell, why stop there
http://www.aveleyman.com/Gallery/ActorsB/2300.gif
My ovaries just exploded. Forget the first three. I just want Yul.
http://www.aveleyman.com/Gallery/ActorsB/2300.gif
My ovaries just exploded. Forget the first three. I just want Yul.
Gosh. lol? I love your comments! Cracking me up.
My pick would have to be the robot chick with the snake tat. OH.EM.GEE. Machines, tats, guns, saddles, the risk of death with every encounter... who WOULDN'T get excited?!
Gosh. lol? I love your comments! Cracking me up.
My pick would have to be the robot chick with the snake tat. OH.EM.GEE. Machines, tats, guns, saddles, the risk of death with every encounter... who WOULDN'T get excited?!
I've been madly in love with Yul since I was about 3. *faints*
That chick is Armistice. I'm coming back in my next life as a lesbian. Serious lady crush on her is what I have. I sold my brother on this show simply by saying I had fallen in lust with a tall scandinavian woman who shoots the crap out of people and gets nood. He binged the whole show in one sitting.
Radiohead songs all over this series.
And yet, no Paranoid Android.
Finished WW last night. I was really disappointed. I mean, wasn't this whole WW story thing done already with Captain America: The First Avenger? *eh-hem* get it? Wonder Woman?!? *ducks* that's Count. Count... Duckula. OMG wtf is wrong with me.
No. Seriously, as I typed "WW" that impulse totally just took over. My apologies all around.But I did finish Westworld and I have very mixed and extreme feelings on this series. First, while Maeve's story line is more or less just getting started, I would feel complete closure and satisfaction if the series ended here. All major arcs that I cared about were resolved, at least to a level that I am satisfied with. To help read between the lines there, I could not care less about Maeve or how this character was developed. I will try to come back at a later date to explain why. I thought by end of season I might have changed my opinions, but no. I would, however, like to return and rewatch a few key episodes to see if there is anything that I might have missed the first time through to sway me a bit towards her purpose; but right now, I feel like her only motivation is to force the story forward. I don't like that. It feels cheap.
It may be more the context of her development rather than the character herself. I really do not mind her. To me, it feels as though someone had a brilliant idea, assembled a gifted team of writers working together to flesh out a solid outline for the season, then near the end of that pre-production session some producer came in announcing that his or her niece (coincidentally named Maeve) would now be part of the writing staff. The staff that had already fleshed out 80% of the season at that point. She would now help. Honestly? I think the writers just handed her a crayon and left her alone in a corner somewhere thinking that they could continue doing what they were on course to accomplish, then just add her name to the credits. Maybe. But somewhere during actually production, the uncle and/or aunt (yes, I am aware) noticed that Maeve was not playing with the other writers, so in spite, hammered a triangular side-story into a circular hole. This is reflected in the series by Arnold's shift in his visual representation of consciousness. First it was a pyramid then it became a circle. It's all in there, and just goes to show how very talented the writing staff is even with the albatross of Maeve around their collective necks. Yes, I am still goofing.
The Albatross of Maeve. <---- I'm copywriting that!
Also, I only really added the spoiler tags because I'm bored.
I will return at some point to elaborate on my actual grievances with her development in a serious tone, instead of rambling smack as I'm doing now. Just I'm at work and this only a vent.
Disagree! WW is brilliant, and one of the best seasons of television ever created, IMO.
Disagree! WW is brilliant, and one of the best seasons of television ever created, IMO.
nono!
My true issue is with the one character, and her development. That is why I mentioned having mixed and extreme feelings up front. I just never got around to detailing that. I LOVE the show. I love MOST of the show. That is partly why I am holding it to such a standard, in my book. Because so much of it is just wonderful. After the first episode, I thought that this could be better than GoT. On a lot of levels, it still is IMO.
I just got caught up in the moment complaining about Maeve, that I lost track of my other points. ;) That, and I ran out of time. Still though, I stand by what I wrote in reaction to her and will write more when I have time to rewatch a few EPs.
I am curious to see your complaints in regards to the character once you get them all down here on the forums. I thought the actress did a great job with her, and that she was particularly well-written.
https://media.giphy.com/media/l2SpNHEVAtmVHpnMY/giphy.gif
I got excited for you watching the season and rewatched the pilot, ynwtf. One actor who really stands out for me, and I'm not sure if I've noticed him in anything else, is Louis Herthum (Dolores' father). He knocked my socks off.
I cant agree with you about Maeve but appreciate the fact you found her to be a shag on a rock. I'm with sedai on her - I think she's well thought out and Thandie does a great job.
And I have an earworm. I love the music in this.
Loved the father. Especially his scene in the psych repair shop, shifting from one "build" to another and back again. That was powerful.
Loved the father. Especially his scene in the psych repair shop, shifting from one "build" to another and back again. That was powerful.
Wasnt he great.
So any more thoughts on the two lab cats?
Yeah. Those two tie into my frustration with Maeve. At the end of the day, it feels to me her rise hinged on two stooges doing things unnoticed that would have absolutely been noticed based on events of early EPs. Access. Security. Glass walls that apparently no one looks through. Control tower awareness of every shift in emotion but the only one that is doing anything weird. Granted it was all "revealed," but the reveal felt more an afterthought, and felt to me as it existed in a bubble created only to open season two rather than playing nice with or using other already running arcs for that bridge. Relative to how well most of the other stories were written, this one arc in comparison felt like the B Team tried to force it in.
This is me thumbing around on mobile during lunch. Don't let this stand alone as debate fodder please! I want to research some earlier details to see if things were as strict as they seemed.
This is me thumbing around on mobile during lunch. Don't let this stand alone as debate fodder please! I want to research some earlier details to see if things were as strict as they seemed.
Hey go for your life. I like seeing the opposing pov.
As for the glass walls no one looks through- that looks like nothing to me
:)
Hey you have to admit that what Armistice did to Sylvester was totally bad ass.
Yeah. Those two tie into my frustration with Maeve. At the end of the day, it feels to me her rise hinged on two stooges doing things unnoticed that would have absolutely been noticed based on events of early EPs.
All part of the plan...Everything Maeve did was programmed, so I think we will find the same is true of these two cats.
Oh another actor that really impressed me in the pilot, eventhough I already liked her, was Evan. The scene where Short Hemsworth was debriefing her and he told her to lose the emotion, then lose the accent.
https://www.autostraddle.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/2.gif
Dayum she is so pretty, and she got to snog Mads Mikkelsen so how can I begrudge her.
All part of the plan...Everything Maeve did was programmed, so I think we will find the same is true of these two cats.
No, I know. And I accept that.
It was, after all, confirmed with her comment in the elevator. That confirmation, though, was after the fact and felt forced to me. Like "hey.. we created this incredibly elaborate and highly unlikely situation here. How are we going to----I KNOW! There's a magic genie that no one knew about that did stuff." This was my The Bone Collector (1999) moment. I'm only exaggerating to make the point. Other elements of the series were more fluid, subtle, and grew naturally. At least when compared to Maeve and her techs.
This is just how I approach things in life. Everything, to me, is relative and measured by contrast from one thing to another. Her story arc, and events leading up to it felt rough and exaggerated relative to what all had been presented up to that point. It's like looking at a painting that has a muted earthy tone palette, then somewhere near the lower left corner is this odd neon green blob of color. It stands out too much and seems like the artist could have blended that one color more to reduce contrast and the heightened attention that that color would obviously receive. I know there is an argument for the artist's intent, but I believe there is a fine line between the artist rationalizing a deliberate choice and simply not seeing how abrasive such a choice might be to some viewing audiences. Or even recognizing that possibility, but choosing to dismiss it regardless.
I am not saying the event is wrong; I am only pointing out how I perceive things. This is an instance through which I can highlight how one element spiked higher than the surrounding others, and that contrast is jarring to me. My disappointment comes with the awareness of how well handled the other elements were, as compared to this one. It seems disproportionate and is a shame in my eye, for no other reason than because the creators had already demonstrated talent and level considerations in earlier episodes.
http://blacknerdproblems.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/MaeveBirdE5.gif
Talk to me, Dani8. I sense deep meaningful symbolism streaming through the ether, desperately trying to communicate with my stubbornness by way of this gif. but. my stubbornness!
<3<3<3
No, I know. And I accept that.
It was, after all, confirmed with her comment in the elevator. That confirmation, though, was after the fact and felt forced to me. Like "hey.. we created this incredibly elaborate and highly unlikely situation here. How are we going to----I KNOW! There's a magic genie that no one knew about that did stuff." This was my The Bone Collector (1999) moment. I'm only exaggerating to make the point. Other elements of the series were more fluid, subtle, and grew naturally. At least when compared to Maeve and her techs.
This is just how I approach things in life. Everything, to me, is relative and measured by contrast from one thing to another. Her story arc, and events leading up to it felt rough and exaggerated relative to what all had been presented up to that point. It's like looking at a painting that has a muted earthy tone palette, then somewhere near the lower left corner is this odd neon green blob of color. It stands out too much and seems like the artist could have blended that one color more to reduce contrast and the heightened attention that that color would obviously receive. I know there is an argument for the artist's intent, but I believe there is a fine line between the artist rationalizing a deliberate choice and simply not seeing how abrasive such a choice might be to some viewing audiences. Or even recognizing that possibility, but choosing to dismiss it regardless.
I am not saying the event is wrong; I am only pointing out how I perceive things. This is an instance through which I can highlight how one element spiked higher than the surrounding others, and that contrast is jarring to me. My disappointment comes with the awareness of how well handled the other elements were, as compared to this one. It seems disproportionate and is a shame in my eye, for no other reason than because the creators had already demonstrated talent and level considerations in earlier episodes.
One may look at this in regards to WW as highlighting how consistently excellent/solid almost all of the story threads are. If it is indeed just that one blob of neon in the corner, the rest of the painting must be quite magnificent. If you removed that one blob, would you in essence have a perfect painting? The fact that WW approaches this level of excellence speaks volumes about its overall quality.
Talk to me, Dani8. I sense deep meaningful symbolism streaming through the ether, desperately trying to communicate with my stubbornness by way of this gif. but. my stubbornness!
<3<3<3
I shall side eye you, my friend
https://68.media.tumblr.com/5a185449a4c3f5eda353f61bc2409ba4/tumblr_oh04pxxYwm1qd1s6no4_400.gif
Keep going. I like the way you write; I'm just teasing. I was the same with a female character in Tyrant. I vented about her until I exploded. Oh man I wanted to stab her AND the writers for creating such a preposterous character. I still want to punch her in the face and the show is long over.
Hey, disliking her is perfectly fine, ynwtf, but there is no denying this scene was Caliente, Caliente, Caliente!
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSngIJ0EzEuTjG_tItLjrgobw5nXIRf4VS_qutG8CY_NCf4XYra
I mean that was BBQ hot.
Oh and I loved this old dude. His movements were amazing
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTT-E0kvmvV3X9RLrV2lXPd3bBzzuKj7iq6Dj5ewa5h8BI6_H4C
One may look at this in regards to WW as highlighting how consistently excellent/solid almost all of the story threads are. If it is indeed just that one blob of neon in the corner, the rest of the painting must be quite magnificent. If you removed that one blob, would you in essence have a perfect painting? The fact that WW approaches this level of excellence speaks volumes about its overall quality.
It is nearly that perfect painting, indeed. Which is why I must hold it to such high scrutiny! Perfection has been demonstrated, especially in the pilot EP. It confounds me how writers capable of that were unable to better resolve this. Especially when to me, it was so glaring and loud in contrast. Subjective, yes. But still it took my attention away so much that I nearly considered ending my viewing.
I shall side eye you, my friend
https://68.media.tumblr.com/5a185449a4c3f5eda353f61bc2409ba4/tumblr_oh04pxxYwm1qd1s6no4_400.gif
Keep going. I like the way you write; I'm just teasing. I was the same with a female character in Tyrant. I vented about her until I exploded. Oh man I wanted to stab her AND the writers for creating such a preposterous character. I still want to punch her in the face and the show is long over.
Past all the oooey-shivers, that one line stood out. lol. "I like the way you write-------nah, just teasin'."
I keed, I keed! I thank you then. *curtsies* =D
I don't recall Tyrant. I need to check it out so that I can redirect my anger!
Hey, disliking her is perfectly fine, ynwtf, but there is no denying this scene was Caliente, Caliente, Caliente!
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSngIJ0EzEuTjG_tItLjrgobw5nXIRf4VS_qutG8CY_NCf4XYra
I mean that was BBQ hot.
Oh and I loved this old dude. His movements were amazing
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTT-E0kvmvV3X9RLrV2lXPd3bBzzuKj7iq6Dj5ewa5h8BI6_H4C
Agree and seconded on both. Lemme be clear! I love the actress and thought she did an excellent job controlling her emotional range being tossed about from one build to another. I can't imagine trying to keep all on track there. It's the character's progression that bugs me. Really, the writer's handling of that character's progression.
I don't recall Tyrant. I need to check it out so that I can redirect my anger!
Oh man, the difference in writing for the middle eastern women and the american women who were made out to be airheads was astounding. I dont want to get back onto that or I'll punch a wall.
Yeah Thandie is great, isnt she, and such a tiny little doll. I also really liked
http://www.cultjer.com/img/ug_photo/2016_08/97632620160820092037.jpg
Sidse is damn fine
and
https://i.redd.it/tb876fkmbp6y.jpg
and
https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/westworld/images/8/83/Elsie_Hughes_new.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20161024033354
And I gift you Armistice
http://images.hellogiggles.com/uploads/2016/12/05051237/smash.gif
Those legs go on forever.
Past all the oooey-shivers, that one line stood out. lol. "I like the way you write[I]-------nah, just teasin'."
LOL. That does come across the wrong way. Just teasing about your reaction to Maeve.
dadgumblah
08-08-17, 01:47 AM
Gotta comment on my favorite ladies on the show, Dolores, Armistice, and Elsie (Shannon Woodward), whom you posted a pic of above, Dani. Thank you for that and the pic of Armistice. Also, thanks to Saunch for that awesome gif of Dolores (Evan Rachel Wood) riding and shooting. You're right, Saunch, there's just something about being threatened by a beautiful women with a gun that is very arousing! :) I really like chicks with guns...in fact I have a board on Pinterest (yes, I'm on Pinterst, as are a LOT of guys) called "Chicks With Guns." Now I need to a page or two back and look at that gif again. :)
BTW, I heard there was a stinger scene at the VERY END of WW where Armistice is shown again. Is that true, Dani?
dadgumblah
There is!
We need Ingrid Bolsø Berdal as the new Terminator. I don't care if it's redundant!
dadgumblah
08-08-17, 02:30 AM
Hmm, I wonder if I can find that final scene on YouTube? Off I go! :)
BTW, I heard there was a stinger scene at the VERY END of WW where Armistice is shown again. Is that true, Dani?
LOL every scene of her is a stinger, dad. Do you mean the one where she throws someone through a window, or being handed a BFG by Hector and laughing? Both amazing.
dadgumblah
08-08-17, 03:14 AM
I don't know, Dani. All I know is that my nephew (who watched WW also) said there was a final, after-credits scene with Armistice, so I'm very curious. And no, I haven't found it yet because I forgot I had a Game of Thrones episode commentary paused and they're usually only about 15 minutes long. :eek:
I don't know, Dani. All I know is that my nephew (who watched WW also) said there was a final, after-credits scene with Armistice, so I'm very curious.
Oh yes, that scene. You have to watch through the end credits, dad!
TheUsualSuspect
08-10-17, 01:37 AM
It's a gag bit, nothing story related.
It's a gag bit, nothing story related.
The end credits? I didnt see that as a gag. Where
armistice cuts her arm off
Please dont tell me that was just for larffs. I loved it.
Time for a bump because I feel the need for a rewatch.
This guy was almost universally hated in the fandom. Not sure why because I thought the character and actor were fantastic. Thoughts?
Hilarious how butt hurt he got at Robert's opinion of his script
https://68.media.tumblr.com/4507a19a166e96fca46327fe68eacd68/tumblr_oevrwh9IAy1sqt7zgo1_250.gif
http://deadline.com/2017/10/westworld-creators-tease-medieval-and-roman-worlds-in-season-2-of-hbo-series-1202181900/
"On Day 2 of the 2017 Vanity Fair Summit, Westworld creators Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy hinted at the possibility of the introduction of new theme parks in the next season, specifically Roman World and Medieval World, amusement park zones which were included in Michael Crichton’s original 1973 movie. At the top of the panel discussion, Nolan and Joy were asked why they left out Roman World and Medieval World in season 2 with Nolan responding “We had to save something for Season 2.”
This comes after it was hinted in the season one finale of Westworld, that Samurai World, another violent amusement park, would open its doors in the upcoming sophomore run.
In the original movie, Westworld wasn’t the only theme park that guests could visit to live out their role-playing fantasies. Delos, the company behind the Western-themed vacation spot, also operated Roman World and Medieval World. In addition, the 1976 sequel that wasn’t penned by Crichton took place in a park known as Futureworld."
doubledenim
10-04-17, 08:01 PM
I just watched a movie featuring James Mardsen / Jack Black intercourse and all I could think was, "Poor Teddy."
According to ERW, season 2 premieres in the spring.
We’re getting Samurai world and possible Roman world too. Fingers crossed that there’s a quick cameo by Kevin McKidd and Ray Stevenson.
More on season 2
http://www.nme.com/blogs/tv-blogs/westworld-season-2-release-date-casting-fan-theories-2032187
Luke Hemsworth and Gustaf Skarsgard in the same show??? Woah! Will William Baldwin appear too? Can the universe handle that??? :eek:
Luke Hemsworth and Gustaf Skarsgard in the same show??? Woah! Will William Baldwin appear too? Can the universe handle that??? :eek:
How many Skarsgard's are there working? I'm part way through a movie with Stellan Skarsgard.
They’re not scarce, those Skarsgards.
They’re not scarce, those Skarsgards.
Lol. They're everywhere!
I do like Stellan, though. Great voice. He was hilarious in Entourage playing an insane director.
Stellan in the sexiest Skarsgard.
Stellan in the sexiest Skarsgard.
Especially when he's playing an insane director. Have you seen that scene? Still laughing.
I think watching Entourage would give me brain damage.
Besides, his Nymphomaniac poster is all the proof I need.
I think watching Entourage would give me brain damage.
Besides, his Nymphomaniac poster is all the proof I need.
I really liked it until the finl season. The weinstein pisstake is pretty topical.
I havent seen Nymphomaniac.
March for season 2. Gee that came round faster than I expected. I was expecting delays.
I hope there’s more momentum.
No wait, I got it wrong. It's a festival or con or something, not season 2. Sorry.
I heard it was Spring, so March might not be wrong (or too far off).
I think I got over excited and jumped the gun when I saw something on fb. I'm all out of my shows right now.
GrantD2
01-08-18, 07:54 PM
I heard it was Spring, so March might not be wrong (or too far off).
Yeah, same. I saw April floating around somewhere.
As long as it comes in the first half of the year, I'll be happy.
I didnt realise the superbowl was this weekend
http://ew.com/tv/2018/02/02/westworld-season-2-trailer-super-bowl/?utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUmfriZoMw0
What’s everyone’s piano cover wishlist? I’m hoping for Street Spirit (Fade Out) by Radiohead.
Oh, and Johnny Cash’s Man in Black, of course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUmfriZoMw0
This looks so good. Loving the work put into the cattle.
space maeve
https://image.ibb.co/mT3FWH/B45_D2_DFB_16_D2_487_E_B952_D9_B1_A802_F08_F.jpg
dadgumblah
02-28-18, 11:05 PM
Along with what teases (or outright reveals) the Super Bowl ad revealed, here is a link to Entertainment Weekly's article on what characters are returning and what their situation is:
http://ew.com/tv/2018/02/28/westworld-season-2-characters/?xid=email-email-ewtv-2018022819PM-tout1&utm_source=ewedit.wordpress.com&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ew-tv&utm_content=2018022819PM
I hope they follow up on that kiss between Elsie and Clementine from ep.1
/watchesbecauseoftheplot
dadgumblah
02-28-18, 11:34 PM
Originally Posted by Saunch
I hope they follow up on that kiss between Elsie and Clementine from ep.1
*fingers crossed!* :)
http://ew.com/tv/westworld-season-2-photos/welcome-to-westworld-season-2/
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/51b3dc8ee4b051b96ceb10de/5a985a7be4966bbe3999678a/5a985a7b9140b7141276e8d7/1519934077446/2178623863217928.jpg?w=700
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/51b3dc8ee4b051b96ceb10de/5a985a7be4966bbe3999678a/5a985a7bc8302591a0064d0f/1519934078197/328943693498723.jpg?w=700
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/51b3dc8ee4b051b96ceb10de/5a985a7be4966bbe3999678a/5a985a7ce4966bbe39996790/1519934076553/38279823468742368.jpg?w=700
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/51b3dc8ee4b051b96ceb10de/5a985a7be4966bbe3999678a/5a985a7ce2c483bd315e0b2b/1519934108313/213261234089374023.jpg?w=600
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/51b3dc8ee4b051b96ceb10de/5a985a7be4966bbe3999678a/5a985a7d419202a9d62e18e9/1519934077365/2390872938463826943.jpg?w=700
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/51b3dc8ee4b051b96ceb10de/5a985a7be4966bbe3999678a/5a985a7d71c10b4c3143ba22/1519934079439/2738496943187349020293.jpg?w=700
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/51b3dc8ee4b051b96ceb10de/5a985a7be4966bbe3999678a/5a985a7df9619a753ef68b11/1519934082440/32875632832947932409.jpg?w=700
Who is in the second photo, MM? Evan? She looks really different.
It's Evan. Posing as one of the park greeters? Kind of wish I hadn't seen that now. I do hope Maeve has fun with story guy. Wreck him.
It's Evan. Posing as one of the park greeters? Kind of wish I hadn't seen that now. I do hope Maeve has fun with story guy. Wreck him.
Thanks. If I squint to the point of giving myself a headache in my furrowed brow I can see it in the angle of her chin. Seriously. Her chin is the giveaway for me.
Maeve sure looks like she's revving up the kick arse femme fatale biz.
Nirvana gets Djawadi‘d.
(Trailer is much more spoiler-y so caution and all that)
https://youtu.be/sjVqDg32_8s
Wow. Thanks for posting, Saunch!
Grammar 'police' are going to have a field day, right Yoda'sMom'?
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