Hombre The Gorilla Killed AT Cincy Zoo.

[NedStark09]

I have researched this topic a good while and I welcome all opinions on this. All these so called zoo experts say it was the right call too protect the Boy. It was said the boys injuries were created by the fall into the Gorilla enclosure and he was drowning and The Gorilla Pulled him from the water.

It was said the Gorilla handled him like a small baby or rather a mother would. People forget that Gorillas and primates are social animals and more often then not the child was fortunate too fall in that inclosure for most other animals would have done killed the boy.

It was more then clear that the Gorilla meant no harm and should have been drugged. You can shoot bullets how about fast working drugs and you save two lives.
But no kill the Gorilla because he might do. Killing is what men is good at to solve animal problems.
I myself like Zoos cause its a chance too see animals you never would see. But today I just am thinking no one cares about the animal and In my view they should shoot the parents with dart guns and put them in a cage because this should not have happened.

[TONGO]

If the gorilla pulled the boy from the water, and was cradling him, they should have tried to get the boy first without shooting anything. You cant blame the parents as they had to have been hysterical. This has happened more than it should have.

[NedStark09]

Actually the dad was upset and screamed and thats what alerted the Gorilla there was a boy. People have said the mother was very calm and was never as upset as the people of the zoo were.

[Sexy Celebrity]

I have no idea because I wasn't there. The video of the gorilla running away with the kid through the water looks a bit scary/troubling. I'm not sure what that gorilla was doing. I wish the gorilla hadn't been killed. That's the first time I've heard the gorilla was saving the kid from drowning.

Some eyewitnesses said the kid was definitely in danger. He might have been. The zoo seems to think he was. They don't regret their decision.

They shouldn't make it easy for people to enter the gorillas' habitat if killing the gorilla to save somebody is the only option.

[Miss Vicky]

If the gorilla pulled the boy from the water, and was cradling him, they should have tried to get the boy first without shooting anything. You cant blame the parents as they had to have been hysterical. This has happened more than it should have.
Well you can blame the parents for not keeping an eye on their kid. I sincerely hope that some charges are brought against them.

[Yoda]

If there's a dart gun with a tranquilizer right there, and you know for a fact it's full-proof and instantaneous, sure, use that. Otherwise, you play it safe and give absolute priority to the child's life no matter what kind of behavior the animal is exhibiting.

As for the parents, it depends on context, but I will say that if you prosecute any parent who lets their child get away from them occasionally, you'd have to charge literally every parent.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Also, the gorilla's name was Harambe.

Not Hombre.

[NedStark09]

I have no idea because I wasn't there. The video of the gorilla running away with the kid through the water looks a bit scary/troubling. I'm not sure what that gorilla was doing. I wish the gorilla hadn't been killed. That's the first time I've heard the gorilla was saving the kid from drowning.

Some eyewitnesses said the kid was definitely in danger. He might have been. The zoo seems to think he was. They don't regret their decision.

They shouldn't make it easy for people to enter the gorillas' habitat if killing the gorilla to save somebody is the only option.
The boy had already Been inside enclosure and was in the water face down in the video. The gorilla carried it around it looked like so it wouldnt wander to dangerous areas. And people who were screaming and commenting just probably mistook hombre movements as dangerous because people panic around animals when likely the people were scaring the gorilla.

[honeykid]

If there's a dart gun with a tranquilizer right there, and you know for a fact it's full-proof and instantaneous, sure, use that. Otherwise, you play it safe and give absolute priority to the child's life no matter what kind of behavior the animal is exhibiting.

As for the parents, it depends on context, but I will say that if you prosecute any parent who lets their child get away from them occasionally, you'd have to charge literally every parent.
^^Basically this^^

How did the child get into the enclosure? Was that any fault of the zoo?

[TONGO]

Heres an appropriate meme, but I cant post it

https://scontent.ftpa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/s480x480/13339726_10154353701874781_3296725456149265598_n.jpg?oh=ac4ccaec8635f55ee1b1312f14cd200a&oe=57C2CE44

[NedStark09]

If there's a dart gun with a tranquilizer right there, and you know for a fact it's full-proof and instantaneous, sure, use that. Otherwise, you play it safe and give absolute priority to the child's life no matter what kind of behavior the animal is exhibiting.

As for the parents, it depends on context, but I will say that if you prosecute any parent who lets their child get away from them occasionally, you'd have to charge literally every parent.
Priority one in all zoo security is to have non lethal dart rounds in case you need too move animals or animals get out. I checked this out the zoo rule book for USA clarifies dart guns on hand.real guns are suposse to be last option.

[Topsy]

(havent seen the video)
why wasnt the gorilla shot with a tranquilizer?????!!!!!!
there should be,and i assume there are,rules and procedures to follow when something like this happens,i cant believe that just shooting it is what they`re teaching. i dont care what animal it is.tranquilizer.
Also,yes the parents..mistakes happen but just how do you loose your child into a gorilla era of a zoo?? like really?


anywho,zoos dont care about animals,just the money they make from keeping them locked up and miserable. if you care about animals dont visit zoos.

[Sexy Celebrity]

They said the tranquilizer gun doesn't act fast enough. It takes a few minutes for the gorilla to pass out. They couldn't wait that long.

[Topsy]

^^Basically this^^

How did the child get into the enclosure? Was that any fault of the zoo?

if the child was able to get in there then im guessing they can argue that its the zoos fault (even though he should have been under his parents supervision.) im guessing thats part of why they shot it,they were scared of a lawsuit.

[Yoda]

SC answered before I could, but that was going to be my guess. And that's assuming getting shot with a dart doesn't cause the gorilla to act violently or unpredictably before it's subdued, anyway.

You just don't take chances with this. It's a child. You simply cannot increase the odds of a child being killed in front of their own parents, even if the odds are just going from 5% to 10%, to save an animal's life.

[The Rodent]

There's been a lot of people comment on this over the web...


The Gorilla was getting agitated at the kid's presence. Injured or not, the kid didn't belong there, and the Alpha Male was getting annoyed at a strange presence around his family.
The Zoo staff were reading his body language, and realised that at any moment he could simply rip the kid apart.


What made it worse, was the crowd. They were all screaming and crying out.
From a Gorilla's point of view, there is an Ape in his territory, surrounded by the same type of Ape that are all screaming and hooting and hollering.
From the Gorilla's point of view, the boy, surrounded by his Kin, all hooting and hollering, the boy was a threat.


Also, the problem with tranquilizers is they aren't instant. Shooting the Gorilla with a dart would have pissed him off even more for 15-20 minutes before it took any effect and would have endangered the boy even more.


The Zoo staff had to kill him. They had no choice.


My own point of view on this after reviewing the evidence:
The only outcome from this, is a lawsuit against the parents. A kid so young, unwatched and unchecked in a public place, surrounded by potential dangers... the parents are to blame for the death of a member of an endangered species.
That Gorilla group has been left without an Alpha Male, which will cause unrest and stress to the group, and maybe even destroy their family dynamic.


You see, when an Alpha Male dies or is replaced, it is always down to another Male. The group is never without leadership.
Having the Alpha just ripped away with no natural replacement, means they are in limbo, and it will cause huge unrest within the group.


The survival of an entire group of endangered animals is now hanging in the balance, all because two dipsh*ts can't keep an eye on their own child.

[Topsy]

They said the tranquilizer gun doesn't act fast enough. It takes a few minutes for the gorilla to pass out. They couldn't wait that long.


i find that very odd,they should have something strong enough in case of emergencies. obviously the reason why thats not used regulary is that is potentially dangerous for the animals but if shoting it is the only other way,then i dont see the problem.

[Miss Vicky]

If there's a dart gun with a tranquilizer right there, and you know for a fact it's full-proof and instantaneous, sure, use that. Otherwise, you play it safe and give absolute priority to the child's life no matter what kind of behavior the animal is exhibiting.

As for the parents, it depends on context, but I will say that if you prosecute any parent who lets their child get away from them occasionally, you'd have to charge literally every parent.
Priority one in all zoo security is to have non lethal dart rounds in case you need too move animals or animals get out. I checked this out the zoo rule book for USA clarifies dart guns on hand.real guns are suposse to be last option.
This was an emergency situation with a child in danger. A decision had to be made and fast. Tranquilizers take several minutes to take effect, especially since they would be shot into a muscle, which has a much slower absorption rate than, say an IV injection.

I don't blame the zookeepers for what happened. I blame the parents who failed to keep their child safe in a public place. A child that young should never have been allowed to leave his parents' sight. It's too easy for a kid to run off, get hurt, get lost, or worse.

[Yoda]

i find that very odd,they should have something strong enough in case of emergencies. obviously the reason why thats not used regulary is that is potentially dangerous for the animals but if shoting it is the only other way,then i dont see the problem.
I'd be surprised if there was even such a thing as a perfectly reliably, instantaneous tranquilizer that didn't also irreparably harm the animal.

[Topsy]

ive seen it on zoo documentaries before,when theres a fight between tribe members,they were shot and instantly fell.
however im guessing it could be dangerous for their hearts as its pretty powerful-so its a very much last last way out.

but that wasnt gorillas though. anyway im not gonna claim to be an expert i have no idea. the whole situation is just so unnecessary

[TONGO]

Hypothetically say they used a tranq dart, and they have on video a gorilla handling a child and then slowly fall asleep, all the while the child was being manhandled. People would be fipping out about this worse. This was a no win situation.

[Miss Vicky]

i find that very odd,they should have something strong enough in case of emergencies. obviously the reason why thats not used regulary is that is potentially dangerous for the animals but if shoting it is the only other way,then i dont see the problem.
I'd be surprised if there was even such a thing as a perfectly reliably, instantaneous tranquilizer that didn't also irreparably harm the animal.
Nothing's instantaneous. Again, it's not a question of the strength of the drug, but rather the rate at which it is absorbed. You can't just walk up and give an injection into the vein where the drug would take effect right away, you have to shoot from a distance into a muscle and then wait several minutes for the drug to be absorbed.

[Sexy Celebrity]

The parents did not cause that gorilla to die.

If you have neighbors, and they have a kid, and the kid runs into your yard, and you have Cujo (a killer dog) coming after it, and you shoot your Cujo and kill it to save that kid, the parents are not responsible for your dead Cujo. It's your Cujo and you killed it. You shoulda kept Cujo inside the house or on a tight leash.

I agree with Yoda -- kids can do stupid things. Accidents happen. Parents don't always keep their eye on them every second.

The zoo shouldn't have made it easy for kids to get inside that gorilla pit. Or whatever you call it.

I actually kinda sympathize a little with PETA here when they say, "This is why we should not have zoos......" But I wouldn't go that far. Zoos are fun. But maybe we should rethink zoos and redesign them so that this kind of thing won't happen again.

[Topsy]

zoos are fun for who though?not the animals ;)

im sure they`re already in a meeting changing things so it never happenes again. this is very bad pr for them

[Sexy Celebrity]

zoos are fun for who though?not the animals ;)

Are you sure? Do you really think every animal in a zoo is unhappy and wants to be free?

[The Rodent]

Ever seen Chimps throw poop at the visitors?


I have at Drayton Manor.


It was nice to see the animals show their true feelings.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Ever seen Chimps throw poop at the visitors?

Maybe that's just how they say hello.

When I came over to your house to visit you that one time, you threw a Young Guns DVD at me.

[Topsy]

Are you sure? Do you really think every animal in a zoo is unhappy and wants to be free?

yes 100%.
but each to their own i guess,i love animals but id rather to see them on safaris and stuff.

[TONGO]

Are you sure? Do you really think every animal in a zoo is unhappy and wants to be free?

Hell yeah they want to be free! 99% of zoos do not have adequate space necessary for a gorilla to not go stir crazy. Like a fish tank.

[Sexy Celebrity]

yes 100%.
but each to their own i guess,i love animals but id rather to see them on safaris and stuff.

Well, you know, my natural habitat is a mansion on a tropical island, but I can't be there. I'm doing okay without it.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Movie Forums is a zoo. You don't see me leaving.

[Topsy]

Well, you know, my natural habitat is a mansion on a tropical island, but I can't be there. I'm doing okay without it.

are you though? are you really?

[Yoda]

The timing of this question is interesting, because I saw something that reminds me of this very recently:

Just a couple of days ago I was walking my dog and a neighbor was out strolling with their kid (maybe 2-3 years old). He was on a sidewalk on a normal domestic street, walking just a little ahead of his dad. I noticed he was getting just a little far away, but I often think something like that and nothing happens. In this case, he sprinted ahead a bit more and turned out into the road just as a car was coming (and driving slightly too fast, I'd say). The father yelled his name and put his hand out to indicate that the car should stop. Everything was fine, and I wouldn't say the kid was close to getting hit, but he also wasn't perfectly safe or totally outside of the possibility of getting hit.

I don't think the father did anything wrong. You can't walk immediately in front of the kid all the time, and if you let him get just to the edge of your arm's reach, they can just randomly decide to sprint in any direction. I have a sister who used to do this all the time: for some weird reason she'd just see the road and decide to sprint across it. Even knowing this it could be very difficult to guard against it completely.

This isn't to say the parents weren't reckless: maybe they were. But I've seen firsthand that kids can behave in totally inexplicable ways, and short of locking them up or never letting them do anything to establish any self-sufficiency it's virtually impossible to prevent them from occasionally putting themselves in danger.

[Thursday Next]

Yeah, I don't see how it is the parents' fault - unless they were allowing the child to climb somewhere they shouldn't have been. Zoo enclosures ought to be secure to keep both the visitors and the animals safe.

[Miss Vicky]

But there are simple ways to keep that from happening: hold the kid's hand or put a leash on him (yes, they make those for kids), especially if it's one of those kids that has a tendency to run off and not listen.

[The Rodent]

The timing of this question is interesting, because I saw something that reminds me of this very recently:

Just a couple of days ago I was walking my dog and a neighbor was out strolling with their kid (maybe 2-3 years old). He was on a sidewalk on a normal domestic street, walking just a little ahead of his dad. I noticed he was getting just a little far away, but I often think something like that and nothing happens. In this case, he sprinted ahead a bit more and turned out into the road just as a car was coming (and driving slightly too fast, I'd say). The father yelled his name and put his hand out to indicate that the car should stop. Everything was fine, and I wouldn't say the kid was close to getting hit, but he also wasn't perfectly safe or totally outside of the possibility of getting hit.

I don't think the father did anything wrong. You can't walk immediately in front of the kid all the time, and if you let him get just to the edge of your arm's reach, they can just randomly decide to sprint in any direction. I have a sister who used to do this all the time: for some weird reason she'd just see the road and decide to sprint across it. Even knowing this it could be very difficult to guard against it completely.

This isn't to say the parents weren't reckless: maybe they were. But I've seen firsthand that kids can behave in totally inexplicable ways, and short of locking them up or never letting them do anything to establish any self-sufficiency it's virtually impossible to prevent them from occasionally putting themselves in danger.


When I have my kids with me, I never let them leave my sight, and I'm always aware of my surroundings, even if they're not.


Sure they're older now and a bit more streetwise, but when they were small, I watched them like a hawk at all times.


We were walking in a carpark, my eldest was only 2 and a half at the time, and she got a few steps ahead and I called her back and told her to hold my hand...


... at that very instant she took off like a rocket just as a car appeared.


First thing I did was 2 huge bounds and grabbed her hood and pulled her back, and as she dropped backwards I caught her in my arms.


Put my hand up to the driver to apologise as they had slammed their brakes on... and I gave Keira a right good shouting at and made her cry.
She's never gone out of reach when around cars ever since, and she's 11 now.

[Sexy Celebrity]

But there are simple ways to keep that from happening: hold the kid's hand or put a leash on him (yes, they make those for kids), especially if it's one of those kids that has a tendency to run off and not listen.

What if that doesn't even solve the problem? What if, somehow, the leashed child somehow drags the parent into the gorilla pit with them? Child falls in, parent goes along to protect it and falls in, too. Then there's two humans in the gorilla pit. Or the leash breaks or something.

[The Rodent]

My point with that, is if Keira had been hit, I would have NOT blamed the driver, and NOT blamed Keira.


It would have been MY fault for allowing her to get out of my reach, and I would expect the full punishment, if any, for not keeping an eye on my own child.

[Topsy]

But there are simple ways to keep that from happening: hold the kid's hand or put a leash on him (yes, they make those for kids), especially if it's one of those kids that has a tendency to run off and not listen.

actually i saw alot of parents using this in england at malls and stuff. its actually not that bad of an idea,the kid gets to practice its independence and the parents can relax abit (alot) more.
but i dont think we`re anywhere near having it publicly acceptable,atleast over here..someone would prob call social services on you.

[christine]

It was a sad end for a magnificent creature that's for sure, but I agree that the safety of the child had to be paramount.

The hysterical backlash against the parents on social media is astonishing. Which one of us who have children can put their hands on their hearts and say they've never had a near disaster? A kid running out in the road? taking your eyes off them and losing them at the shops? Your mind runs riot at what might've been.
We were on holiday once in rural France and my seven year old son got in a strop and when no one was watching he crossed across the path and hid in the long grass in a field. We looked for him panicking for nearly an hour searching the forest before he got fed up of lying in the sun daydreaming and came home. Imagine if something had actually happened to him during that time? I would've been all over Facebook as a disgraceful mother.
People are so judgemental of others and social media serves as a weird medium that encourages strangers to join in castigating others when they know little of what really happened.

[The Rodent]

Leashes for kids have been in the UK since the 1960s. I was born in 82, and my Mum had one for me.

[Sexy Celebrity]

When I have my kids with me, I never let them leave my sight, and I'm always aware of my surroundings, even if they're not.

But you might have a moment where you're distracted. You might see a shop with a window display showing Young Guns t-shirts for sale or something. Who knows? It's always possible you could forget what you're doing for a moment. That's how child abductions/purse snatches/carjacking can happen -- you lose your attention on something for a second, BOOM, disaster strikes before you know it.

First thing I did was 2 huge bounds and grabbed her hood and pulled her back, and as she dropped backwards I caught her in my arms.

Put my hand up to the driver to apologise as they had slammed their brakes on... and I gave Keira a right good shouting at and made her cry.

She's never gone out of reach when around cars ever since, and she's 11 now.Well, you were lucky. Pray you stay that way.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Leashes for kids have been in the UK since the 1960s. I was born in 82, and my Mum had one for me.

My mom has one for you, too.

[Topsy]

It was a sad end for a magnificent creature that's for sure, but I agree that the safety of the child had to be paramount.

The hysterical backlash against the parents on social media is astonishing. Which one of us who have children can put their hands on their hearts and say they've never had a near disaster? A kid running out in the road? taking your eyes off them and losing them at the shops? Your mind runs riot at what might've been.
We were on holiday once in rural France and my seven year old son got in a strop and when no one was watching he crossed across the path and hid in the long grass in a field. We looked for him panicking for nearly an hour searching the forest before he got fed up of lying in the sun daydreaming and came home. Imagine if something had actually happened to him during that time? I would've been all over Facebook as a disgraceful mother.
People are so judgemental of others and social media serves as a weird medium that encourages strangers to join in castigating others when they know little of what really happened.

theres a huge difference between a four year old and a seven year old though. i get your point-but there was only a fence up here by the looks of the video so a child most definitly be watched at all times.

do we know HOW the child got in though? did it climb over and fall in?

[Sexy Celebrity]

theres a huge difference between a four year old and a seven year old though.
There is?

[Topsy]

yes

[Daniel M]

But you might have a moment where you're distracted. You might see a shop with a window display showing Young Guns t-shirts for sale or something. Who knows?

I spat my drink out laughing at this, honestly :D

[Miss Vicky]

What if that doesn't even solve the problem? What if, somehow, the leashed child somehow drags the parent into the gorilla pit with them? Child falls in, parent goes along to protect it and falls in, too. Then there's two humans in the gorilla pit. Or the leash breaks or something.

A four year old kid isn't going to physically drag an adult anywhere. Get real.

Now, obviously I don't know the exact circumstances, but there are simple things that the parents could have done to prevent this.

Furthermore, I have seen time and time again instances where parents have been grossly negligent about supervising their children. I've seen plenty of times when they've allowed kids to run up to strangers' dogs or when parents weren't paying attention while their kids stuck their hands and faces into the ball return at the bowling alley.

[Sexy Celebrity]

A four year old kid isn't going to physically drag an adult anywhere. Get real.

Depends on what the parent has been feeding their kid.

But then again, there's yet another case of bad parenting there for ya.

[ursaguy]

I'm not sure how to say this without potentially offending someone, so I'm going to not care and just say what I'm thinking. The kid didn't deserve to die, but the parents probably deserved to have their kid killed. There's negligence and then there's letting your unattended 4 year old walk into a gorilla pen. You are surrounded by dangerous animals. Watch your kids.

[foster]

This thread reminds of me of the SNL skit
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/should-you-chime-in-on-this/2941773

[Sexy Celebrity]

I'm not sure how to say this without potentially offending someone, so I'm going to not care and just say what I'm thinking. The kid didn't deserve to die, but the parents probably deserved to have their kid killed. There's negligence and then there's letting your unattended 4 year old walk into a gorilla pen. You are surrounded by dangerous animals. Watch your kids.

DAMN there is some serious parent hate around here.

You all need to see a therapist. You guys who hate and blame the parents so much -- you need to see a therapist. You've got issues with your own parents, I think. How could you not? Imagine if these people were your parents. You want them going to jail because you got loose and wound up in a gorilla pit? I'm telling ya, you've got issues with your own parents. Go work them out instead of being so disgusting towards people.

[foster]

There is?

absolutely a difference between 4 and 7.

mohammed never married a 4 year old. that's just gross.

[Captain Steel]

I thought about making a thread for this topic yesterday (especially every time I saw Tongo's avatar)!

[Cobpyth]

The kid didn't deserve to die, but the parents probably deserved to have their kid killed.

Not a smart statement.

[Captain Steel]

Haven't read all the posts, so sorry if this has been covered...

I've read reports that say tranquilizer darts could take up to 20 minutes to fully put an excited bull gorilla to sleep.
The pain from the darts or even the drugs from the tranquilizers could scare, threaten, agitate or confuse the gorilla and he could respond to those feelings by taking them out on the child just as a reflex.
If he was successfully incapacitated, he could pass out on top of the child, crushing him to death (the gorilla weighed 400 lbs.)
If the gorilla had the boy near the water and passed out, he could drown the child.

Just some things they considered.

[TONGO]

I'm not sure how to say this without potentially offending someone, so I'm going to not care and just say what I'm thinking. The kid didn't deserve to die, but the parents probably deserved to have their kid killed. There's negligence and then there's letting your unattended 4 year old walk into a gorilla pen. You are surrounded by dangerous animals. Watch your kids.

wince! Sometimes its not always best to say what you think.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Now if the parent THREW the kid into the gorilla enclosure -- "Bye! Have fun down there!" -- lock them up!

[NedStark09]

The comment was the tranquilizer would take too long but if the Gorilla was not aggitated which means you could have maybe idk use the handler he was comfortable with to come around distract him and take the kid our.

Jake Hannah said it would take the drugs near 12 minutes too take effect and by that time the Gorilla could have been enraged. Jake Hannah just then stated the Gorilla was calm then if darting it would make it mad. If the Gorilla was calm then he was not trying to hurt the kid or anyone .

I think that people panic who were just average people and not professional animal people and Zoo thought well just shoot it too make the other people here feel safe. I think all these Zoo People and Jake Hannah miss the point on what endangered species is. And Hannah Claims he knew what would happen the kid would have been dead. Which maybe true but how often does Gorillas kill Baby Gorillas. Chimps is another thing.

It is a known fact is anyone who has read Jane Goodalls book on Gorillas that Gorillas and Orangatang s are the safer primate and its the Chimps known too be ruthless.

My point is I guess is maybe they could have saved the boy without any guns. Unless the Zoo and Handlers have been abusive too some of there animals. And The Gorilla would have been enraged by people. I just dont think this should have happened. I get it if was a Grizzly or Lions pin but i just am not convienced death was nessasary with a non meat eating animal.

[The Rodent]

The comment was the tranquilizer would take too long but if the Gorilla was not aggitated which means you could have maybe idk use the handler he was comfortable with to come around distract him and take the kid our. Jake Hannah said it would take the drugs near 12 minutes too take effect and by that time the Gorilla could have been enraged. Jake Hannah just then stated the Gorilla was calm then if darting it would make it mad. If the Gorilla was calm then he was trying to hurt the kid. I think that people panic who were just average people and not professional animal people and Zoo thought well just shoot it too make the other people here feel safe. I think all these Zoo People and Jake Hannah miss the point on what endangered species. And Hannah Claims he knew what would happen the kid would have been dead. Which maybe true but how often does Gorillas kill Baby Gorillas. Chimps is another thing. It is a known fact is anyone who has read Jane Goodalls book on Gorillas that Gorillas and Orangatang s are the safer primate and its the Chimps known too be ruthless.
My point is I guess is maybe they could have saved the boy without any guns. Unless the Zoo and Handlers have been abusive too some of there animals. And The Gorilla would have been enraged by people. I just dont think this should have happened. I get it if was a Grizzly or Lions pin but i just am not convienced death was nessasary with a non meat eating animal.


The way Zoos work with Gorillas, is they do not allow the staff to mingle with them.
The animals are kept separated from humans at all times.
The closest they come into contact is through several sets of reinforced cages.


There's no such thing as a Gorilla Handler.

[The Rodent]

Oh, and Gorillas do eat meat.
All apes do.

[Captain Steel]

To NedStark:

But the gorilla was agitated - that's why he started dragging the boy through the water - this was a display, this is what they do when they feel threatened.

And, as others have stated, a combination of a foreign creature in its territory and the reaction of the crowd made the gorilla agitated. Perhaps if the crowd had remained perfectly calm and quiet, the gorilla may have simply stood guard over the boy until help arrived, but they didn't. A gorilla doesn't have to want to kill a child to do so accidentally based on their relative sizes & the gorilla's natural strength.

It shouldn't have happened, but it did.
The big question now is, how did the boy get inside?

[The Rodent]

The comment was the tranquilizer would take too long but if the Gorilla was not aggitated which means you could have maybe idk use the handler he was comfortable with to come around distract him and take the kid our.

Jake Hannah said it would take the drugs near 12 minutes too take effect and by that time the Gorilla could have been enraged. Jake Hannah just then stated the Gorilla was calm then if darting it would make it mad. If the Gorilla was calm then he was not trying to hurt the kid or anyone .

I think that people panic who were just average people and not professional animal people and Zoo thought well just shoot it too make the other people here feel safe. I think all these Zoo People and Jake Hannah miss the point on what endangered species is. And Hannah Claims he knew what would happen the kid would have been dead. Which maybe true but how often does Gorillas kill Baby Gorillas. Chimps is another thing.

It is a known fact is anyone who has read Jane Goodalls book on Gorillas that Gorillas and Orangatang s are the safer primate and its the Chimps known too be ruthless.

My point is I guess is maybe they could have saved the boy without any guns. Unless the Zoo and Handlers have been abusive too some of there animals. And The Gorilla would have been enraged by people. I just dont think this should have happened. I get it if was a Grizzly or Lions pin but i just am not convienced death was nessasary with a non meat eating animal.



Quoting this again, I spotted something I missed (have highlighted it).


Males will kill the babies when they take over as Alpha.
They either kill of seriously injure the current Alpha Male, take over the group, kill all the babies, and then mate with the Females to ensure it's his bloodline that continues.


Lions do the same thing.

[NedStark09]

Well then maybe thats a bad idea not for animals to bond with zoo people. I understand all things had to be done to save a boys life and that seems too be paramount. I however look at it as This innocent Gorilla was minding its own buisness and the kid came into his pin. All these humans start screaming and scaring the animal and bang the gorilla is shot and its dead.

The biggest problem is this what if he was the last Gorilla Male of the species. Do you kill him still because its the human way to put humans over animals. Even so called animal rights people. The humans will always kill the animal.

[Gatsby]

The big question now is, how did the boy get inside?
Yeah I'm wondering about that too. The parents are indeed partially responsible, but people are forgetting the fact that the fundamental problem is a small child being able to get into a gorilla enclosure.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Males will kill the babies when they take over as Alpha.
They either kill or seriously injure the current Alpha Male, take over the group, kill all the babies, and then mate with the Females to ensure it's his bloodline that continues.

It sounds so Predator.

[The Rodent]

Well then maybe thats a bad idea not for animals to bond with zoo people. I understand all things had to be done to save a boys life and that seems too be paramount. I however look at it as This innocent Gorilla was minding its own buisness and the kid came into his pin. All these humans start screaming and scaring the animal and bang the gorilla is shot and its dead.

The biggest problem is this what if he was the last Gorilla Male of the species. Do you kill him still because its the human way to put humans over animals. Even so called animal rights people. The humans will always kill the animal.



Some animals bond with staff, sometimes it's required.


But animals like Lions, Tigers, Chimps and especially Gorillas do not work like that.


Gorillas are a group animal, and stick to their own. It's immorally wrong to upset the balance of a Gorilla Troop by throwing humans in amongst them.
It's happened a handful of times in the wild, but captive Gorillas are notoriously different in terms of behaviour, and the way Troops work as a family unit and as a hierarchy, it's simply wrong to allow human interaction with them.

[NedStark09]

To NedStark:

But the gorilla was agitated - that's why he started dragging the boy through the water - this was a display, this is what they do when they feel threatened.

And, as others have stated, a combination of a foreign creature in its territory and the reaction of the crowd made the gorilla agitated. Perhaps if the crowd had remained perfectly calm and quiet, the gorilla may have simply stood guard over the boy until help arrived, but they didn't. A gorilla doesn't have to want to kill a child to do so accidentally based on their relative sizes & the gorilla's natural strength.

It shouldn't have happened, but it did.
The big question now is, how did the boy get inside?
Um more then likely he was playing and well he is a gorilla. I mean we have see kids carry around kittens and puppies in bad ways. Anyways I was stating that Hannah Said Tranquilizer would make it aggitated. And how bad was he hurting the boy if it was released the same day. I can only go by the video and it more or less did not dipict too me an animal with malace intent but a Gorilla who wondered what this thing was. It realized it was somewhat like a baby gorilla by it not being angry at first.

Im willing too bet if it was aggitated it was because the human reponses made it scared

[Captain Steel]

Well then maybe thats a bad idea not for animals to bond with zoo people. I understand all things had to be done to save a boys life and that seems too be paramount. I however look at it as This innocent Gorilla was minding its own buisness and the kid came into his pin. All these humans start screaming and scaring the animal and bang the gorilla is shot and its dead.

The biggest problem is this what if he was the last Gorilla Male of the species. Do you kill him still because its the human way to put humans over animals. Even so called animal rights people. The humans will always kill the animal.

On this your'e perfectly correct. The gorilla did nothing wrong. The child was not supposed to be in the enclosure. The gorilla is an unfortunate victim.
But the zookeepers did the only thing they could do to try to ensure the child's safety (as other options had too much risk involved).
There may be no one to blame here. (Although full details haven't been revealed as to how or why the child was in the enclosure - someone may yet be accountable for issues of safety and preventing anything similar from happening again.)

[Sexy Celebrity]

http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=25740&stc=1&d=1464824458

RODENT!

Stop staring
at the screen
and
PAY ATTENTION
TO YOUR KID!

[The Rodent]

**** off SC. I've had enough of your ****.

[Sexy Celebrity]

**** off SC. I've had enough of your ****.

https://media.giphy.com/media/Tp23gJOuDRHq0/giphy.gif

[Captain Steel]

Um more then likely he was playing and well he is a gorilla. I mean we have see kids carry around kittens and puppies in bad ways. Anyways I was stating that Hannah Said Tranquilizer would make it aggitated. And how bad was he hurting the boy if it was released the same day. I can only go by the video and it more or less did not dipict too me an animal with malace intent but a Gorilla who wondered what this thing was. It realized it was somewhat like a baby gorilla by it not being angry at first.

Im willing too bet if it was aggitated it was because the human reponses made it scared

Also, there are a couple videos floating around - some are edited, some are not. The edited ones don't show the gorilla pulling the child by the leg.
On at least 2 occasions the gorilla grabs the boy by the ankle and pulls him forcefully through the water. He may have just been playing, but experts say that dragging things or throwing things is a display behavior gorillas make when feeling threatened.
Either way, the boy was small and being dragged this way could have easily injured him, if his head had hit something hard while being pulled this way he could have easily been killed or drowned.

[Citizen Rules]

How easy was it for a small kid to get into the gorilla enclosure? I bet it took more than just 3 steps and 5 seconds for the kid to end up with the gorillas. So what were the parents doing during this time? Checking their text messages?

Any parent worth their salt would know that they had brought their child into a potentially dangerous area...and so would pay closer attention than normally would be the case.

Every time I go on vacation I see good parents, and I see a lot of selfish Millennium Parents who are more engrossed in themselves then in their offspring.

[Omnizoa]

You just don't take chances with this. It's a child. You simply cannot increase the odds of a child being killed in front of their own parents, even if the odds are just going from 5% to 10%, to save an animal's life.
Humans are animals.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/42/f3/c2/42f3c297041f68df59c1a3643da43f85.jpg

[Sexy Celebrity]

Humans are animals.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/42/f3/c2/42f3c297041f68df59c1a3643da43f85.jpg



There's also billions of human beings on the planet, but, how many of these gorillas are left? 4 or 5? Think about that.

[TONGO]

https://media.giphy.com/media/Tp23gJOuDRHq0/giphy.gif

oy, dont be reusing my precious TONGO gorilla material! Thats all stamped and copyrighted in Washington :yup:

[Sexy Celebrity]

Sorry, TONGO. It was perfect for this thread.

[TONGO]

Hey guys, if my kid fell in the gorilla pen, and it started running around with him/her in its arms.....if I had a rifle Id put it down. I think its been properly established they had to kill it. Its equally established that it was not the gorillas fault.

You damn well know Zoos are open to civil suits in court in these circumstances, make the parents liable too. Sometimes though a tragedy is truly an unpreventable one.

[matt72582]

"cellphones these days...."

[Omnizoa]

Sometimes though a tragedy is truly an unpreventable one.
http://images.turkcedublajfilmindir.net/images/22449438689.png

[Sexy Celebrity]

If they're close to being extinct, keep them away from humans. Just keep them away. Don't even exhibit them. ESPECIALLY not in a way where kids can fall into their enclosures.

If they are so VALUABLE... keep them hidden away. Just like you would with your own valuables. You don't keep important stuff you keep in a safe just lying around, do you? Banks don't leave money just lying around on the tables out front, do they? You don't open a magazine at a bank and find $100 bills just carelessly popping out of them. You don't hang all your expensive jewelry outside from the trees, do you? You don't give it away to kids on Halloween instead of candy.

Keep those things away from people, I say. You wanna see creatures that aren't human? Buy an ant farm. There's plenty of ants.

Leave some food out, open a door and let flies come inside. We won't run out of flies. Instant Zoo, right where you live. A safer zoo.

[Captain Steel]

If they're close to being extinct, keep them away from humans. Just keep them away. Don't even exhibit them. ESPECIALLY not in a way where kids can fall into their enclosures.

If they are so VALUABLE... keep them hidden away. Just like you would with your own valuables. You don't keep important stuff you keep in a safe just lying around, do you? Banks don't leave money just lying around on the tables out front, do they? You don't open a magazine at a bank and find $100 bills just carelessly popping out of them. You don't hang all your expensive jewelry outside from the trees, do you? You don't give it away to kids on Halloween instead of candy.

Keep those things away from people, I say. You wanna see creatures that aren't human? Buy an ant farm. There's plenty of ants.

Leave some food out, open a door and let flies come inside. We won't run out of flies. Instant Zoo, right where you live. A safer zoo.

Ants should be free! Free... to frolic and play!

[TONGO]

http://images.turkcedublajfilmindir.net/images/22449438689.png


What's your point with that?

[Sexy Celebrity]

He believes tragedies can be preventable.

And that life is like a box of chocolates.

[TONGO]

Oh, well if they didnt have gorillas on public display, yeah thatd prevent it. I meant once the kid fell in the pen.

[Citizen Rules]

What were all the other people who were there doing?...Just standing around and watching this kid cross the safety area? Didn't anybody think to say something? or to help? before the kid fell into the gorilla pit!

Apparently, it doesn't 'take a village' to raise a child...It just takes a parent who can be responsible and put their child's safety as top priority.

[mark f]

Again?

[foster]

My #1 pet peeve of internet posting.

People make a thread dedicated to talk about something, but don't post a LINK or attach the damn thing they're talking about

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zfuz7cTDNeI

[Sexy Celebrity]

You know, AT LEAST they were allowed to shoot and kill the gorilla.

Imagine if they couldn't... and that thing actually did kill the child.

Feel glad that they were allowed to do that. I think I'd be more scared if that right was taken away.

[TONGO]

Tough watching that video. You could tell the gorilla was actually trying to protect the child, but was handling like it would a gorilla the childs size, which couldve unintentionally injured/killed the kid. You could even see the gorilla trying to stand the boy up. This sucks.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Tough watching that video. You could tell the gorilla was actually trying to protect the child, but was handling like it would a gorilla the childs size, which couldve unintentionally injured/killed the kid. You could even see the gorilla trying to stand the boy up. This sucks.
But is that really what the gorilla is thinking in its own mind? Or are we just projecting our own human feelings and attitude onto that gorilla?

[NedStark09]

Well how would you feel if say we were allowed too kill the last male Gorilla. I dont think death should be the only obvious solution on endangered animals. Remember we killed Gorillas and there babies we humans cut off there hands and all many or things. We humans again killed but its because humans being a man cub and its parents were not paying attention. A Gorilla was gun down because of human carelessness.

[TONGO]

But is that really what the gorilla is thinking in its own mind? Or are we just projecting our own human feelings and attitude onto that gorilla?

Oh come on Sexy if the gorilla was wanting to toy with the child before killing him the child would be constantly screaming and then surely dead. It was obvious it didnt know what to do, but it was not wanting to harm the child.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Well how would you feel if say we were allowed too kill the last male Gorilla. I dont think death should be the only obvious solution on endangered animals. Remember we killed Gorillas and there babies we humans cut off there hands and all many or things. We humans again killed but its because humans being a man cub and its parents were not paying attention. A Gorilla was gun down because of human carelessness.

Well, it was gonna die someday anyway.

[Citizen Rules]

Well, it was gonna die someday anyway.
The kid or the gorilla?

[Sexy Celebrity]

Oh come on Sexy if the gorilla was wanting to toy with the child before killing him the child would be constantly screaming and then surely dead. It was obvious it didnt know what to do, but it was not wanting to harm the child.

It may not have wanted to harm the child just yet -- but would it have eventually? I am not sure.

I don't know. That's what I said in my first post in this thread -- I don't know. I'm not that gorilla. I don't know what it was thinking. I wasn't at the zoo. I'm not trained in gorillas.

[foster]

Hell yeah kill the gorilla !!

That kid could grow up one day and cure cancer.
What is the gorilla ever going to do?

[Sexy Celebrity]

I'm not trained in gorillas.

Although I did become pregnant with TONGO's baby when I was Peg Bundy in Survivor 5.

[NedStark09]

What is wrong with you this is not a joke. If there was another female their could be hope for another gorilla. How would you like it if we put you in a pin and let a child fall in and say oh your too dangerous lets shoot the rare animal known and Sexy Chief.

[Sexy Celebrity]

The kid or the gorilla?

Well, unless we discover the secret to immortality tomorrow, both, but I meant the gorilla.

[Citizen Rules]

Well, then in a 100 years it won't matter:eek:....so back to real life... when's the next Sheep round, I didn't hear?

[Sexy Celebrity]

Seriously - I'm getting out of here. I feel like I've fallen into a gorilla pit myself.

[NedStark09]

Q uestion most of all are we so sure that the Gorilla or animals dont understand things. Im wondering if maybe Gorillas or animals do know what they are doing.

[Citizen Rules]

Q uestion most of all are we so sure that the Gorilla or animals dont understand things. Im wondering if maybe Gorillas or animals do know what they are doing.Gorillas are intelligent creatures and they do understand many things, well not the stock market, but they understand what people are, what little kids are, what cries of pain are, stuff like that. If the gorilla would have wanted to hurt the kid it would have jumped on his head like a grape. But it didn't do that, did it?

My question still stands, as I didn't see anyone address it, what were the other onlookers doing as the kid was climbing towards the gorilla pit? Surely some people seen the kid and knew it was a dangerous thing for him to do. Has anybody heard any reports about that?

[TheUsualSuspect]

The zoo's main priority was the safety of the child, regardless of the stupidity of the parent. There was no guarantee that a tranq dart would take the gorilla out without harming the child. So the sad answer was the one they chose.

[NedStark09]

Came across this Video not sure what zoo it is.

https://youtu.be/89aTLqinBCo

[Citizen Rules]

I didn't watch the video, but wasn't there a similar case a few years ago where a child fell into the gorilla pit, broke it's arm and the gorilla gently cared for the child until a zoo worker entered the area and removed the child.

[Swan]

Gotta be careful going to zoos now. If they're shooting gorillas, I might be next.

[NedStark09]

I didn't watch the video, but wasn't there a similar case a few years ago where a child fell into the gorilla pit, broke it's arm and the gorilla gently cared for the child until a zoo worker entered the area and removed the child.
You mean this the date on video is 2014.
https://youtu.be/N05CItceEdg

[Naisy]

I watched video where the gorilla drag the kid through the water. At that point I'm not weighing up between tranqs or bullets. At that point wait and see isn't an option.

Yes the parents didn't supervise the kid well enough (but i'm sympathetic that kids are impossible to police 24/7), yes the zoo should not have an enclosure that any human easily crawl into and 100% yes this was avoidable BUT at the point where a kid does get away from their parents, does crawl into the enclosure and the gorilla grabs him (whether meaning to hurt them or not) The knowledge is that a tranq dart will not work fast enough and likely agitate the gorilla further, the decision has to be made to choose which life to protect and as heartless as it sounds the shooting the gorilla dead was the right call and almost certainly prevented the further harm to the child or anyone attempting to recover him. Gorillas aren't all lovey dovey some will just aggressively rip you apart.

[TONGO]

I didn't watch the video, but wasn't there a similar case a few years ago where a child fell into the gorilla pit, broke it's arm and the gorilla gently cared for the child until a zoo worker entered the area and removed the child.

I remember that. Thats why I said earlier they should have tried getting the child without shooting it at all at first, but kill it if that attempt failed. The gorilla that protected the injured child that fell and hurt itself years ago didnt look like an alpha male like this one though, I may be mistaken.

I say put a wall of pexiglass on all zoo exhibits since we cant handle the responsibility of a fence.

[TONGO]

In neither instance did the gorillas want to hurt the child. This is really depressing.

[Naisy]

But today I just am thinking no one cares about the animal and In my view they should shoot the parents with dart guns and put them in a cage because this should not have happened.

That is such BS. These were not abusive parents or evil people. They took kids to the zoo to see animals and have fun as a family not see how Gorillas act with kids. While I get the disappointment at the parents who could of prevented this, the constant stuff I read about calling for them to be punished or shot disgusts me. They made a mistake and it was accident but calling for them to be shot for that mistake at the zoo is sick (which isn't typically considered a dangerous place). How about we punish all mistakes and accidents? Spill a drink, get water boarded because that should not have happened.

[Citizen Rules]

That is such BS. These were not abusive parents or evil people. Who said they were? I didn't...I suggested they might have been irresponsible.

While I get the disappointment at the parents who could of prevented this, the constant stuff I read about calling for them to be punished or shot disgusts me.Oh come now, who said they should be shot? Donald Trump maybe.

They made a mistake and it was accident but calling for them to be shot for that mistake at the zoo is sick (which isn't typically considered a dangerous place).Seriously now, did someone say that in this thread? If so I didn't read it.

How about we punish all mistakes and accidents? Spill a drink, get water boarded because that should not have happened.That's silly...but I'm reminded of a very horrific news story that has stayed with me. A group of people were visiting Yosemite and were at the top of the big Vernal falls, over 300 feet high. They went beyond the safe viewing area an onto a rock in the river for photos, then the woman fell in and the man who was with her fell in as he tried to save her.

"Everyone was screaming," witness Jake Bibee told AP. "People were praying. What I will take away with me forever is the look on that grown man's face as he was floating down that river knowing he was going to die and nobody could help them."


http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Hiker-Swept-Over-Vernal-Falls-Report-125848553.html

That all happened because of stupidity. I do a lot of hiking and see people doing the same dangerous stunts all the time. Gorillas are smart, people are stupid.

[NedStark09]

Well last I heard the cops were launching and investigation onto the events because most certainly some parent was careless and as bad as this sounds. Last I checked their is a law about parent negligence so that family is not done with this event. Yes kids run aways but this has global news event where an animal had too be gun down for said endangerment. How far away could a parent be from a 4 year old at the zoo. Far enough away for the drop in for it appears Gorilla areas are down.

[NedStark09]

Who said they were? I didn't...I suggested they might have been irresponsible.

Oh come now, who said they should be shot? Donald Trump maybe.

Seriously now, did someone say that in this thread? If so I didn't read it.

That's silly...but I'm reminded of a very horrific news story that has staid with me. A couple were visiting Yosemite and were at the top of the big Vernal falls. They wanted a close look at the falls so went beyond the viewing area to where they weren't suppose to be. They went onto a rock in the river for photos, then the woman fell in and the man who was with her fell in as he tried to save her.

"Everyone was screaming," witness Jake Bibee told AP. "People were praying. What I will take away with me forever is the look on that grown man's face as he was floating down that river knowing he was going to die and nobody could help them."


http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Hiker-Swept-Over-Vernal-Falls-Report-125848553.html

That all happened because of stupidity. I do a lot of hiking and see people doing the same dangerous stunts all the time. Gorillas are smart, people are stupid.
I said they should be shot with a dart gun and put in a cage. Not live rounds people. I said they should be put in a cage for bad parenting.

[foster]

Q uestion most of all are we so sure that the Gorilla or animals dont understand things. Im wondering if maybe Gorillas or animals do know what they are doing.

Last time I was at a zoo the gorilla knew sign language.

You can go and ask him yourself if he understands things.

[banality]

We should be shooting more gorillas, you all saw Planet of the Apes.

[Naisy]

Who said they were? I didn't...I suggested they might have been irresponsible.


If you read the quote in that post saying this is complete BS is a reference for that thing straight above it. Saying the parents aren't evil was me giving as a reason why I think calling for the parents to be put in a cage and shot with a dart gun is BS.


Oh come now, who said they should be shot? Donald Trump maybe.


On the internet there are three or four sites that aren't movieforums.com that are reporting on this story and having people comment. Which is why I said I have read quite a few in which people are saying the parents should be shot or like the quote above my post punished in a horrible way. While I acknowledge shooting dead and shooting with a dart gun is not the same thing I consider both to be a ridiculous suggestion as punishments that fit the crime of poor supervision. Kinda like there is a difference between kicking someone in the balls and shooting someones balls off, both are examples of bad things but not the same thing.


That's silly...
That all happened because of stupidity. I do a lot of hiking and see people doing the same dangerous stunts all the time.

Yes, of course it was silly to suggest waterboarding is an appropriate punishment for spilling a drink. That was the point of it, I was being sarcastic. Suggesting an unreasonable punishment for an accident. Just like caging parents and shooting them with a gun (of any sort).

Gorillas are smart, people are stupid.

I don't know how to respond to that. The Gorillas IQ I think is between 70-90 and a humans I think average at 100 but hey I'm sure they would win in an arm wrestle. I'm sure at least one Gorilla is stupid.

[Naisy]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cj4LVSIW0AAt66q.jpg:large

That's the barrier.

[TONGO]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cj4LVSIW0AAt66q.jpg:large

That's the barrier.

If thats the fence then the Zoo is responsible, thats ridiculous!

[gbgoodies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cj4LVSIW0AAt66q.jpg:large

That's the barrier.

If thats the fence then the Zoo is responsible, thats ridiculous!


According to several articles I read, the child climbed over a 3-foot high fence, through some thick shrubbery, and fell down a 15-foot embankment.

Several witnesses have come forward to say that the child told his mother "several times" that he wanted to go "play with the animal", but she just kept telling him "No".

[Sexy Celebrity]

The zoo was asking for something to happen with that kind of setup.

[Captain Steel]

My question still stands, as I didn't see anyone address it, what were the other onlookers doing as the kid was climbing towards the gorilla pit? Surely some people seen the kid and knew it was a dangerous thing for him to do. Has anybody heard any reports about that?

These are good questions - hopefully a full investigation will take place (but I used to work in the Safety industry and sometimes investigations start out full bore until people start to forget about the incident and / or the discoveries about the details start to point in uncomfortable directions... like some of the accountability starts to point back to the guy who was banging his fist on the desk a week earlier demanding a full investigation.)

Also, look at the height in the video between the level where the guy is filming and where the gorilla is. In addition to how did the kid get IN there, how did he get DOWN there?
Are there different levels that the kid could access? Did he climb down? Did he repel? Did he fall? (If he fell, it's amazing he wasn't seriously injured from such a fall.)

[TONGO]

http://sharing.wcpo.com/sharewcpo/photo/2015/04/14/WCPO_Harambe_Cincinnati_Zoo_silverback_gorilla_1429037871541_16763037_ver1.0_640_480.jpg

Harambe

Ive seen a bunch of pictures already of this gorilla, and didnt know this was the one that this happened to. I used alot of his photos in the Survivor game.

Straight up, they need to shut this zoo down. That lowassed fence, and them not even acknowledging that. They need to be shut down.

[Captain Steel]

I don't buy the "lowassed" fence photo.
The photo may be authentic and it may be part of the area at that zoo, but how is that supposed to keep gorillas in?
And if the answer is, "the gorillas are at the bottom of a 15 foot deep embankment" ... gorillas can climb. Climbing is one of their main abilities. And "shrubbery?" - gorillas eat shrubbery for breakfast (literally).
So I'm not buying that the only thing between gorillas and the public is a ravine, some shrubs and a rail the height of a guy's groin. If that was the case, there'd be gorillas running around all over the zoo everyday.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Ive seen a bunch of pictures already of this gorilla, and didnt know this was the one that this happened to. I used alot of his photos in the Survivor game.

Seriously? Then I might have made love to Harambe as Peg Bundy.

[Sexy Celebrity]

TONGO, do you have some sort of affinity for gorillas? Like, are they your spirit animal or something?

[banality]

You know people have been hunting gorillas for a century, plus, I mean, this is just one gorilla that was shot, I'd do that on a dare. People are only upset because it's news.

[Sexy Celebrity]

You know people have been hunting gorillas for a century, plus, I mean, this is just one gorilla that was shot, I'd do that on a dare. People are only upset because it's news.

People might as well put up their Christmas decorations when there's bad news. It's a celebration of the ugly kind.

[Captain Steel]

You know people have been hunting gorillas for a century, plus, I mean, this is just one gorilla that was shot, I'd do that on a dare. People are only upset because it's news.

That probably has something to do with why they're endangered.

I understand your point about media, but I think most people who hear about it find it a bit upsetting on principle - that the animal (which in this case is an endangered species primate - a great ape - a cousin to man and thought to be one of the most intelligent creatures on earth) was killed because he was a victim of circumstance (or possibly negligence). The gorilla wasn't doing anything "wrong," he was just reacting to a unique situation he had no idea how to deal with (in human terms). He didn't deserve to die. That's the upsetting part.

[banality]

That probably has something to do with why they're endangered.

I understand your point about media, but I think most people who hear about it find it a bit upsetting on principle - that the animal (which in this case is an endangered species primate - a great ape - a cousin to man and thought to be one of the most intelligent creatures on earth) was killed because he was a victim of circumstance (or possibly negligence). The gorilla wasn't doing anything "wrong," he was just reacting to a unique situation he had no idea how to deal with (in human terms). He didn't deserve to die. That's the upsetting part.

People die everyday, Superman.

[Captain Steel]

People die everyday, Superman.

Yes. And?

[TONGO]

You know people have been hunting gorillas for a century, plus, I mean, this is just one gorilla that was shot, I'd do that on a dare. People are only upset because it's news.

People die everyday, Superman.

Were upset because we have a deeper understanding than some that think this typical and boring. If thats the extent of your insight, wow gee thanks. :rolleyes:

[banality]

Just putting things into perspective, folks.

[TONGO]

TONGO, do you have some sort of affinity for gorillas? Like, are they your spirit animal or something?

You definitely are in indian mode. Here -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U65_iqFMjvA

[Naisy]

I don't buy the "lowassed" fence photo.
The photo may be authentic and it may be part of the area at that zoo, but how is that supposed to keep gorillas in?
And if the answer is, "the gorillas are at the bottom of a 15 foot deep embankment" ... gorillas can climb. Climbing is one of their main abilities. And "shrubbery?" - gorillas eat shrubbery for breakfast (literally).
So I'm not buying that the only thing between gorillas and the public is a ravine, some shrubs and a rail the height of a guy's groin. If that was the case, there'd be gorillas running around all over the zoo everyday.

I can climb too but climbing is hard if there are no footholds or surfaces to grab onto.

Maybe this photo is more believable?

http://imageresizer.static9.net.au/TijWYZ264PjI2-ju2i1Zjiv4O8A=/718x0/http%3a%2f%2fprod.static9.net.au%2f_%2fmedia%2f2016%2f06%2f02%2f09%2f44%2f0206_barrier_sp.ashx

or this one? http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article8085943.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Cincinnati-Zoo-Gorilla-enclosure-graphic.jpg

The child fell down and was injured but nothing serious, which can only be put down to luck... or aliens.

[TONGO]

Just putting things into perspective, folks.

No youre showing the dimmest perspective and seem to be proud of it. So the perfect response isnt to be infurated by things and it continue on like it has because...people die everyday? Give me a break.

[Citizen Rules]

You know what I just realized...the boy is going to be called Gorilla Killer for the rest of his life....I'm sure some could make a funny joke about that....but me, I feel sorry for the boy as he's the other victim...the other being the Gorilla.

[banality]

No youre showing the dimmest perspective and seem to be proud of it. So the perfect response isnt to be infurated by things and it continue on like it has because...people die everyday? Give me a break.

There's a reaction and then there's an overreaction.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Hey -- at least it wasn't another school shooting.

[banality]

You know what I just realized...the boy is going to be called Gorilla Killer for the rest of his life....I'm sure some could make a funny about that, but me....I feel sorry for the boy as he's the other victim...the other being the Gorilla.

This'll all be forgotten about by next month.
What gorilla? Have you heard about The Emoji Movie!?

[Citizen Rules]

Was there a school shooting? I blame the parents;)

[gbgoodies]

That gorilla exhibit has been there since 1978 with no other incidents, so obviously the enclosure was good enough for almost 40 years.

Witnesses said the child told his mother SEVERAL TIMES that he was going to try to go into the exhibit and play with the gorilla, so at what point is it the mother's fault? Shouldn't she have been holding the child's hand if he was trying to climb into the exhibit?

[Sexy Celebrity]

Was there a school shooting? I blame the parents;)
Seriously -- parents of school shooters don't go to jail, do they? But some of you want Gorilla Kid's parents to die from lethal injection.

[Captain Steel]

Just putting things into perspective, folks.

Perspective is always a matter of... um... perspective.

You can always claim that people should not focus on a particular point of interest when there are so much more important, wide-spread or all encompassing things going on.
The problem is you can provide that kind of perspective to almost anything (and therefore, it could be claimed that no one should ever focus on or discuss anything except the most important, all encompassing things, but they shouldn't discuss those because there will always be something MORE important or all encompassing). ;)

[Sexy Celebrity]

Shoot, even that Aurora movie theater killer - from back in 2012, the Dark Knight Rises shooter - he didn't get the death penalty.

But the Gorilla Kid and his parents deserve to die?

[banality]

Perspective is always a matter of... um... perspective.

You can always claim that people should not focus on a particular point of interest when there are so much more important, wide-spread or all encompassing things going on.
The problem is you can provide that kind of perspective to almost anything (and therefore, it could be claimed that no one should ever focus on or discuss anything except the most important, all encompassing things, but they shouldn't discuss those because there will always be something MORE important or all encompassing). ;)

What can we do to remedy this? The universe is huge, there is no real truth, let's watch some movies.

[Captain Steel]

To push the subject into bordering territories - has anyone seen the stories of how the Black Lives Matter movement is saying that shooting the gorilla was an example of "white privilege"?
Seriously, someone in the group said that if the child had been black, they would not have shot the gorilla; the zookeepers would have only tried tranquilizers because a black child's life wouldn't have been worth as much (... only problem is... the child was black)!

Look it up! ;)

[Captain Steel]

What can we do to remedy this? The universe is huge, there is no real truth, let's watch some movies.

People are dying everyday, Banality... and you want to go watch some movies?
(See what I mean?) ;)

[gbgoodies]

Shoot, even that Aurora movie theater killer - from back in 2012, the Dark Knight Rises shooter - he didn't get the death penalty.

But the Gorilla Kid and his parents deserve to die?


James Holmes (the Aurora movie theater killer) deserved the death penalty, but Colorado doesn't use it anymore. He was sentenced to 12 consecutive life sentences plus 3,318 years without parole.

The mother of the child should be held responsible for what happened, but death is a bit of an extreme penalty. (As far as I know, the father was not at the zoo when it happened.)

[Naisy]

That gorilla exhibit has been there since 1978 with no other incidents, so obviously the enclosure was good enough for almost 40 years.

So if this happened in 1979 it would be different? What's your point?

[banality]

People are dying everyday, Banality... and you want to go watch some movies?
(See what I mean?) ;)

Yep. (https://youtu.be/E_qvy82U4RE?t=52s)

[Sexy Celebrity]

That gorilla exhibit has been there since 1978 with no other incidents, so obviously the enclosure was good enough for almost 40 years.
I KNOW you would not be praising that zoo if you happened to be the mother of that Gorilla Kid.

You call the cops on a restaurant if your hamburger comes with onions on it. If your kid fell into a gorilla enclosure... Jesus himself could return to Earth to solve the mess, and you still would not be satisfied. Of course, you are Jewish.

Scott Bakula could Quantum Leap into that gorilla and walk up and hand your child back to you... you'd still be so mad you'd call North Korea and ask for their intimidation against that zoo.

[Captain Steel]

So if this happened in 1979 it would be different? What's your point?

Sounds like the point is there are some details we don't know about yet.
Was something left open? Was that 4-year-old able to find some never before discovered weak-link? Seems odd that after 40 years of no one getting in, a toddler is the first to breach the security.

[gbgoodies]

So if this happened in 1979 it would be different? What's your point?


If this happened in 1979, then the enclosure could be considered inadequate, but since there have been no incidents in almost 40 years, and the zoo followed all the regulations, it obviously did it's job all these years and kept the animals in, and the people out.

Maybe the child's mother should have been paying more attention to a young child who obviously didn't understand the danger AND expressed a desire to go into the enclosure where the dangerous animals were.

My point is to put the blame where it belongs. The zoo workers had no choice but to kill the gorilla to save the child. The child didn't know any better, but the mother should have.

[Captain Steel]

I KNOW you would not be praising that zoo if you happened to be the mother of that Gorilla Kid.

You call the cops on a restaurant if your hamburger comes with onions on it. If your kid fell into a gorilla enclosure... Jesus himself could return to Earth to solve the mess, and you still would not be satisfied. Of course, you are Jewish.

Scott Bakula could Quantum Leap into that gorilla and walk up and hand your child back to you... you'd still be so mad you'd call North Korea and ask for their intimidation against that zoo.

:eek:
Man! I am not up on the past relationship inside jokes on this board!

[gbgoodies]

I KNOW you would not be praising that zoo if you happened to be the mother of that Gorilla Kid.

You call the cops on a restaurant if your hamburger comes with onions on it. If your kid fell into a gorilla enclosure... Jesus himself could return to Earth to solve the mess, and you still would not be satisfied. Of course, you are Jewish.

Scott Bakula could Quantum Leap into that gorilla and walk up and hand your child back to you... you'd still be so mad you'd call North Korea and ask for their intimidation against that zoo.


I'm not praising the zoo. I'm just saying that the mother is more responsible than the zoo.

I don't have any kids, but if I did, I'm sure that I would pay more attention to them if they were trying to get into the gorilla exhibit at the zoo.

[Sexy Celebrity]

James Holmes (the Aurora movie theater killer) deserved the death penalty, but Colorado doesn't use it anymore. He was sentenced to 12 consecutive life sentences plus 3,318 years without parole.
James Holmes could have had the death penalty.

What happened was one STUPID juror was firmly against the death penalty and would not budge. So they had to sentence him to life in prison instead of death.

[gbgoodies]

:eek:
Man! I am not up on the past relationship inside jokes on this board!


You can start by reading this thread:

http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=41448

[gbgoodies]

James Holmes could have had the death penalty.

What happened was one STUPID juror was firmly against the death penalty and would not budge. So they had to sentence him to life in prison instead of death.


That's strange. Usually they won't seat someone on the jury of a death penalty case if they are so set against the death penalty that they won't even consider it.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Well, I dunno. That's the story I heard and saw. It's on the internet.

[gbgoodies]

Well, I dunno. That's the story I heard and saw. It's on the internet.

I'm not saying that it's wrong. I'm just surprised that they would even allow that person on the jury of a death penalty case.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Being against the death penalty is trendy and that was a huge case. They let him go to say to the world, "Let's all be against the death penalty! It's wrong for killers to die!"

[Naisy]

I don't have any kids, but if I did, I'm sure that I would pay more attention to them if they were trying to get into the gorilla exhibit at the zoo.

:rotfl: Now I understand your opinion more. Get a four year old kid and take them to an exciting place like the zoo and see how perfect you are.

[Camo]

Yep. (https://youtu.be/E_qvy82U4RE?t=52s)

You left out the best part of that - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNa4NKFE6wE

[gbgoodies]

:rotfl: Now I understand your opinion more. Get a four year old kid and take them to an exciting place like the zoo and see how perfect you are.

I babysat for kids for many years when I was younger, and I have two nieces, and I've taken all of the kids to a lot of fun and exciting places. I've always made it their day, not mine, and I paid full attention to the kids at all times.

This mother wasn't just distracted for a few seconds. According to witnesses, she was distracted for several minutes, while the child told her that he wanted to go in and play with the gorilla. That should have been her first clue to keep a better watch on him than normal.

[TONGO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4KrNrFeXh8

[TONGO]

Zookeeper Who Raised Harambe from Birth: 'He Was Never Aggressive or Mean to People'

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/zookeeper-who-raised-harambe-from-birth-he-was-never-aggressive-or-mean-to-people/ar-BBtLn0e?li=BBnbfcL

The Texas zookeeper who raised Harambe, the 17-year-old western lowland gorilla who was shot dead at the Cincinnati Zoo on Saturday is mourning the loss of the animal he remembers as "never aggressive or mean."

Jerry Stones, the facilities director for the Gladys Porter Zoo in Brownsville, Texas, raised Harambe from the time he was three weeks old.

"When he was little his mama gave up on him at 21 days old," Stones tells PEOPLE. "I ended up taking him home that night and many nights after that. I'd feed him and change his diapers just like you would a human baby."

From his birth, Stones says Harambe was a "character" and "just a neat little guy to be around."

"He was very playful and always running around with the others," he says of Harambe's time with the other gorillas in his enclosure. When it came to interacting with humans, Stones says "He was never aggressive or mean to people."

While Harambe didn’t appear aggressive, Stones says he stopped venturing into his enclosure when the gorilla was about 7 years old. By the time a gorilla reaches that age, he explains, their size and weight can make them unsafe to engage with.

"The deal is they play rough. Once they get to over 100 pounds, if they smack your legs out from underneath you or grab you by the leg and drag you around they're just playing but you will get hurt," he says. "So you stop going in their enclosures because if they play rough and you get hurt, that would be your fault."

Stones says he can't comment on the zoo's decision to shoot Harambe after he grabbed a 4-year-old boy who had slipped into the gorilla enclosure, but admits that he was "devastated" to learn the news.

"It's hard to believe he's gone," he says. "I know its crazy to think somebody would be that touched by these animals but they're so so special."

Stones believes gorillas to be highly intelligent, but he disagrees with some experts' suggestions that the gorillas remaining at the Cincinnati Zoo could face depression following their loss.

"They'll handle it just fine," he says. "I've been around gorillas that have had losses in their troupe and they stay quiet for a few days but they're okay."

Stones cautions against ascribing too many human characteristics or feelings to the animals. "They do some things that are human-like but they aren't human," he explains. "They're very intelligent but we need to let them be gorillas."

Harambe was sent to the Cincinnati Zoo in September 2014 in the hopes that he would eventually breed with the female gorillas there. Western lowland gorillas are critically endangered in the wild and there are just 765 gorillas like Harambe living in zoos worldwide.

After Harambe was shot and killed, reproductive biologists extracted viable sperm from the mammal for use in programs like artificial insemination and genetic research. "There's a future," zoo director Thane Maynard said during a press conference Monday. "It's not the end of his gene pool."

The staff of the Gladys Porter Zoo is also doing its part to ensure that the beloved gorilla's legacy carries on. The zoo set up the Harambe Fund to support gorilla research and conservation efforts in Africa.

"Harambe means 'pull together' in Swahili and this is the chance for everyone to pull together and help these animals," Stones says. "All we can do is try to take his terrible, terrible death and turn it around by giving his family a chance at a future."

[Omnizoa]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cj4LVSIW0AAt66q.jpg:large

That's the barrier.
http://www.goodonnetflix.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/tom-hanks-as-forrest-gump-in-forrest-gump.jpg

[rauldc14]

I'm going to the zoo tomorrow. This will no doubt cross my mind.

[Swan]

Just read through the thread. My take-away is: I'm not surprised Rodent was put on a leash as a kid.

[seanc]

I blame Obama...and society...and evolution...and of course the Sexy curse.

[NedStark09]

Zookeeper Who Raised Harambe from Birth: 'He Was Never Aggressive or Mean to People'

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/zookeeper-who-raised-harambe-from-birth-he-was-never-aggressive-or-mean-to-people/ar-BBtLn0e?li=BBnbfcL

The Texas zookeeper who raised Harambe, the 17-year-old western lowland gorilla who was shot dead at the Cincinnati Zoo on Saturday is mourning the loss of the animal he remembers as "never aggressive or mean."

Jerry Stones, the facilities director for the Gladys Porter Zoo in Brownsville, Texas, raised Harambe from the time he was three weeks old.

"When he was little his mama gave up on him at 21 days old," Stones tells PEOPLE. "I ended up taking him home that night and many nights after that. I'd feed him and change his diapers just like you would a human baby."

From his birth, Stones says Harambe was a "character" and "just a neat little guy to be around."

"He was very playful and always running around with the others," he says of Harambe's time with the other gorillas in his enclosure. When it came to interacting with humans, Stones says "He was never aggressive or mean to people."

While Harambe didn’t appear aggressive, Stones says he stopped venturing into his enclosure when the gorilla was about 7 years old. By the time a gorilla reaches that age, he explains, their size and weight can make them unsafe to engage with.

"The deal is they play rough. Once they get to over 100 pounds, if they smack your legs out from underneath you or grab you by the leg and drag you around they're just playing but you will get hurt," he says. "So you stop going in their enclosures because if they play rough and you get hurt, that would be your fault."

Stones says he can't comment on the zoo's decision to shoot Harambe after he grabbed a 4-year-old boy who had slipped into the gorilla enclosure, but admits that he was "devastated" to learn the news.

"It's hard to believe he's gone," he says. "I know its crazy to think somebody would be that touched by these animals but they're so so special."

Stones believes gorillas to be highly intelligent, but he disagrees with some experts' suggestions that the gorillas remaining at the Cincinnati Zoo could face depression following their loss.

"They'll handle it just fine," he says. "I've been around gorillas that have had losses in their troupe and they stay quiet for a few days but they're okay."

Stones cautions against ascribing too many human characteristics or feelings to the animals. "They do some things that are human-like but they aren't human," he explains. "They're very intelligent but we need to let them be gorillas."

Harambe was sent to the Cincinnati Zoo in September 2014 in the hopes that he would eventually breed with the female gorillas there. Western lowland gorillas are critically endangered in the wild and there are just 765 gorillas like Harambe living in zoos worldwide.

After Harambe was shot and killed, reproductive biologists extracted viable sperm from the mammal for use in programs like artificial insemination and genetic research. "There's a future," zoo director Thane Maynard said during a press conference Monday. "It's not the end of his gene pool."

The staff of the Gladys Porter Zoo is also doing its part to ensure that the beloved gorilla's legacy carries on. The zoo set up the Harambe Fund to support gorilla research and conservation efforts in Africa.

"Harambe means 'pull together' in Swahili and this is the chance for everyone to pull together and help these animals," Stones says. "All we can do is try to take his terrible, terrible death and turn it around by giving his family a chance at a future."
That was an amazing article. This is what I was meaning by handler. Its just that his handler was from Texas and he was in Cincy. No wonder the Gorilla was likely bored and saw the kid as a new buddy or maybe even a toy.
BTW i think its disgusting taking the sperm from a dead gorilla. I obviously dont want the species to die off but really let the poor animal alone.

[donniedarko]

The parents may have had some fault, I don't know. Not the issue though, if the experts said (and have agreed) that the gorilla needed to be shot then that's that. I'm frankly surprised that this is as big of news as it is, seems pretty clear that a child's life is more important than a primates

[TONGO]

The parents may have had some fault, I don't know. Not the issue though, if the experts said (and have agreed) that the gorilla needed to be shot then that's that. I'm frankly surprised that this is as big of news as it is, seems pretty clear that a child's life is more important than a primates

I agree the childs safety was paramount. I just feel after the kid fell in they should have tried to just go get the kid from him rather than just shoot him. If they did, and he responded aggresively, then they did what they had to.

[Topsy]

also the people who stood around screaming should have been removed

[Miss Vicky]

BTW i think its disgusting taking the sperm from a dead gorilla. I obviously dont want the species to die off but really let the poor animal alone.

It's a critically endangered species with a slow reproductive rate. They need to keep the gene pool as varied as they can. I'm glad they decided to salvage what they could.

[Sexy Celebrity]

BTW i think its disgusting taking the sperm from a dead gorilla. I obviously dont want the species to die off but really let the poor animal alone.

I saw that earlier. They killed him and then raped him.

[Omnizoa]

They need to keep the gene pool
http://screenprism.com/assets/img/article/tom-hanks-forrest-gump-and-mykelti-williamson.jpg

[Sexy Celebrity]

I blame Obama...and society...and evolution...and of course the Sexy curse.

Too true. I didn't think of that.

[Sexy Celebrity]

I want a Forrest Gump face. Omni, look at me with one of your Forrest Gump faces.

[Citizen Rules]

I don't have much hope that humans are wise enough to save the large endangered animals. I really fear that in a few generations from now, Gorillas and Elephants, Rhinos, etc will all be gone. It doesn't have to be that way either, they could be saved.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Then aliens from other planets will come down here and we'll be the animals in the zoos.

[TONGO]

http://screenprism.com/assets/img/article/tom-hanks-forrest-gump-and-mykelti-williamson.jpg


Honestly Omniz, Ill probably kick myself later for saying this, but you would rock in a Survivor game here. You have the roleplaying aspect down cold, even better than me. Thats just coloring for the game though as its not a RPG, but youd fit in and flourish :yup:

[Sexy Celebrity]

I was thinking Omnizoa should join Survivor 6 if you run it, TONGO.

[Omnizoa]

I want a Forrest Gump face. Omni, look at me with one of your Forrest Gump faces.
http://hkstrategies.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Forrest-Gump-jpg.jpg

[Sexy Celebrity]

http://hkstrategies.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Forrest-Gump-jpg.jpg



Thank you.

http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=25751&stc=1&d=1464893956

Seriously -- this could be its own thread.

[foster]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b3/b5/87/b3b587d10ec635f8fa6614c2b918adeb.jpg

[Topsy]

Then aliens from other planets will come down here and we'll be the animals in the zoos.


this is probably gonna happen :lol: :lol:

[TONGO]

I was thinking Omnizoa should join Survivor 6 if you run it, TONGO.

Dans gonna run one next. Might be soon, I dont know.

[Sexy Celebrity]

this is probably gonna happen :lol: :lol:

Some think it's already happened.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Dans gonna run one next. Might be soon, I dont know.

Ugh. I was more in the mood for drama and chaos. Dan's game will be another boring one like Nope's.

[TONGO]

Ugh. I was more in the mood for drama and chaos. Dan's game will be another boring one like Nope's.

?!?!?! TONGO sense tingling You said my Latveria was the single worst experience you ever had on this forum.

I have a framework for a Deadwood themed Survivor "ish" game, its involved compared to a normal Survivor game. Dan called dibs though, his quarter was on the machine first. ;)

[Sexy Celebrity]

Ugh. I was more in the mood for drama and chaos. Dan's game will be another boring one like Nope's.

?!?!?! TONGO sense tingling You said my Latveria was the single worst experience you ever had on this forum.

I have a framework for a Deadwood themed Survivor "ish" game, its involved compared to a normal Survivor game. Dan called dibs though, his quarter was on the machine first. ;)
Yeah but Daniel M has been busy and there's been no movement. Raul just keeps talking about a winter game.

I say - go ahead and do Survivor 6 if you want. I would rather it be Survivor. You could incorporate Deadwood into it... I guess. I'm not playing a character from whatever that is.

[Citizen Rules]

Yeah but Daniel M has been busy and there's been no movement. Raul just keeps talking about a winter game.

I say - go ahead and do Survivor 6 if you want. I would rather it be Survivor. You could incorporate Deadwood into it... I guess. I'm not playing a character from whatever that is.Someone PM DanielM and ask him if he's ready to start it.

[TONGO]

Yeah I talked with Daniel a few weeks ago and he definitely wants to do one, but he said itd be a month or two. I think itll be strong. :up:

[Sexy Celebrity]

I don't think I'll join that, then.

[Citizen Rules]

Can't you guys do a quickie short game, before Daniel starts his?

[Sexy Celebrity]

Can't you guys do a quickie short game, before Daniel starts his?
Why are you so interested? You want to join TONGO's game?

[ashdoc]

(havent seen the video)



anywho,zoos dont care about animals,just the money they make from keeping them locked up and miserable. if you care about animals dont visit zoos.

are zoos in US privately owned ? in my country ( india ) they are government owned .

i was asking because the money making aspect is more important to private institutions .

[NedStark09]

To honor fallen Gorilla Friend here is a few moments of primates stealing stuff. To honor primates with a more humor upbeat feeling.

https://youtu.be/tPxcFm_S1qc