Philosophical Pursuit of the Nature and Meaning of Hardcore/Punk/Metal [Archive]

Zotis

07-29-15, 04:25 AM

Ever since I was a 12 years old I had feelings of anger, depression, anxiety, exasperation, and loneliness towards the people I felt should love me the most, my family. A large part of my teenage years felt more like coping than anything else. My parents had already been through two separations, and when I was fourteen they split up for good. They're divorced now. I have often reflected on a very specific memory of mine. Up until I was 14 I had virtually no interest in music whatsoever. One day I was sitting in the back seat of the car. I think I was 12 or 13 years old at the time. It was summer. I had gelled my hair, but my brother who was sitting in front of me didn't care. He had the window rolled down which ruined my hair style. I complained to my dad, but he made some lame joke about it and basically took my brother's side. During the car ride they (my dad and brother) listened and sang along to The Backstreet Boys which was playing on the radio. How upset was I allowed to be about my hairstyle? Who cares right? I thought to myself, don't be so lame as to feel sorry for yourself about something like that. But what really bothered me was just the way that they didn't care. They just laughed with no thoughts towards my feelings. So I was pretty miserable for the whole car ride to wherever we were going. And I remember thinking to myself, as I reflected on how awful The Backstreet Boys were, there has to be the perfect music out there somewhere for me. Music that reflects on things like not feeling loved by the people you have the strongest human bonds with, instead of music that is about sex, partying, and feeling good for no particular reason. And I'm not sure where it came from, but "Screamo" popped into my head.

Well the first type of music I got interested in when I was 14 was Pop Punk, and from there I eventually moved on to Post-Hardcore. After High-school I was eventually introduced to some Metalcore, and I think I was 23 when I first started listening to real Metal. When I was 24 it dawned on me that I had never actually dug around to find this dubiously obscure "Screamo" that I thought must exist. Up until that point I had only heard the vaguest rumors. Well, I finally looked it up on the internet and after some searching this is what my first discovery was:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrEr8sPw2J0

I pulled an all-nighter researching Screamo and talking about it on some internet message board. I fell in love. Screamo soon became 80% of my music library. The bands that hit me the hardest are still among my favorites, and I listen to them regularly. Here are a few.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q801yAFdBPA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5xXBh_HzGs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07gfvZLaEqc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QrsZgZWs_4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbRa3lfG30g

Screamo has been the most influential genre of music in my life. While Post-Hardcore bands Alexisonfire and Thrice were the two bands I listened to the most as a teen and have stuck with me thus far, Screamo opened the biggest door into music for me. Within three weeks after that one all-nighter I listened to more bands than in my entire life up to that point, and the research I did discovering that music opened the door to researching many more interesting sub genres of Punk and Metal.

I'll use this thread from time to time to talk about music and post various bands that I'm listening to. That's all for now folks.

Mr Minio

07-31-15, 12:31 PM

I don't love it, but there are some bands in the genre I enjoy. Judging from your tastes, you should like Crust Punk (if you don't already). Fall of Efrafa, Ekkaia, Dishammer and Alpinist are bands you should check out!

Sample:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb1Bam2rDY0

Zotis

07-31-15, 08:31 PM

Indeed those are all good bands. I think Ekkaia's first few songs they put out are absolutely golden. I guess it was because of how intense their singer's screaming was, but the crispness of his voice diminished in their next release and was completely gone by their third release. Their other material is still good, but doesn't hold a candle.

I'll talk more about Crust, Powerviolence, and other genres in the future.

Mr Minio

07-31-15, 08:52 PM

Wow. Powerviolence. Are you into Noise Rock & Noise & Harsh Noise as well?

False Writer

07-31-15, 08:53 PM

That's a pretty powerful story Zotis, I had no idea that that was what lead you to the heavy music we often discuss. Also, apologies for not responding sooner, this thread seemed to have been avoiding me until now.

Orchid is an awesome Screamo band. Pg.99 is the only other one that I had heard of prior to you mentioning the other ones. I've already told you about how one of my favorite Screamo bands is The Saddest Landscape, mainly their older material though. It's not a genre that I listen to a ton, but there is stuff I can get into for sure.

Also, wow Mr. Minio! I would have never guessed that there would be another person on here that knew about Fall of Efrafa.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to future entries Zotis!

Mr Minio

07-31-15, 09:07 PM

Also, wow Mr. Minio! I would have never guessed that there would be another person on here that knew about Fall of Efrafa. Never underestimate MoFos!

Swan

07-31-15, 09:25 PM

Good thread Zotis. My buddy is into screaming metal type stuff like this, so lately I've been around it a bit. I've never cared much for the screaming, really. I'm certainly open to it, especially more now than ever, but it still doesn't do a lot for me. I notice though, I tend to really dig the music aside from that. Maybe they aren't the same as this kind of stuff but one of my favorite bands is Animals as Leaders, which is more or less screaming metal without the screaming (or maybe not, but that's how I thought of them when I first found them out). And today, I was introduced by Sedai to Polyphia, who I have spent the day listening to. Their music reminds me a little bit of the "post-hardcore" stuff, but maybe I'm being crazy. These genres I've never delved into and am pretty clueless about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNYfM0ovwug

Despite my cluelessness, there was a time when I was surrounded with post-hardcore, because one of my friends in 8th grade was really into it. So at that time I was listening to Circa Survive (who I still like), Chiodos (not so much), and The Sound of Animals Fighting. For that reason there is a certain nostalgia to emo and post-hardcore that still appeals to me a bit, with the right music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUocKxV9ySI

My friend and I have been making our own music and I'm finding it's really metal-inspired, and that's something I brought to the table, not my friend, surprisingly. I guess I'm still influenced by Metallica, like they were ingrained into my subconscious back when I was around 12 and obsessed with them. I have recently rediscovered my love for Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets, and am starting to discover some more metal stuff.

While I don't know if the screaming will ever appeal to me, I'm certainly open to it, and will listen to your recs. :)

donniedarko

07-31-15, 09:32 PM

Only punk song I like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MkRuV0aCcI

Zotis

08-01-15, 09:36 AM

Awe, thanks guys. Your responses mean a lot to me. To answer your question Mr Minio, yes I do like some Noise, although it's mostly other stuff infused with noise. I can't say I'm a fan of straight up Noise. At least the stuff I've heard wasn't that appealing. A really good band that combines Screamo with Noisr is Combat Wounded Veteran, and a band I recently discovered that combines Noise with (I think) Metalcore and Metal is Melt Banana. They've actually been around for a long time and are quite well respected. Noise is definitely a genre I want to learn more about.

False Writer, we've talked privately a bit, and I'm glad there is another person here who likes this stuff. The Saddest Landscape is a band that by reputation is a pillar in the genre of Screamo and very well regarded. I admit I haven't particularly listened to them a ton. There are so many good bands that they kind of fell into the midst of the pile. So I listen to them now and then, but I do wish I could give so many of these great bands more attention.

Thanks for posting Donniedarko. I can't say I'm a fan of Dead Kennedys, but that song was not bad. I've never really been a fan of straight up Punk, but I have a lot of respect for it as the foundation for much of the music I love.

Zotis

08-01-15, 07:48 PM

I enjoyed your story Swan. Yesterday I was at a friend's place, and we were showing each other music. He likes rap, which I don't, but I can appreciate stuff like Tupac and Wu Tang Clan. He played one track that was this chick rapping about her life story and how she was sexually abused as a child. It was actually pretty cool, even though I didn't care for the music or style I enjoyed her oldschool technique and the story was quite potent. The way she told her story was enthralling. It made me think about the nature of music beyond taste. It's hard to understand and appreciate tastes we haven't acquired, but I can see the potential benefit of acquiring a taste for virtually anything and everything.

I actually have a Circa Survive album, the one with the hot air balloons. They're a pretty decen't band. That Sound of Animals Fighting track was interesting. Whenever I hear bands with "animal" in their title I automatically think of the intense band Animals on Coke. But don't listen to them unless you want your ears to bleed. Personally I love it when my ears bleed from intense music.

Mr Minio

08-01-15, 08:36 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnlBgRpT7oo

You can't even pretend this is not the greatest band ever.

90sAce

08-04-15, 12:29 AM

.
Well everyone's going to have their own tastes and nostalgia.

Thing though is I don't think it's totally fair to compare the Backstreet Boys to the bands you listened, as though those are the only two options. The Backstreet Boys' music was made for 13 year old girls to swoon over, it wasn't even trying to be profound to begin with.

Throughout the decades there have been plenty of talented artists who dealt with deep and profound themes, and plenty of albums which much more fleshed out content than what you hear on the radio. Even popular radio songs which come to mind are "Janie's Got a Gun" by Aerosmith (dealt with themes of rape and patricide) and "Gypsies Tramps and Theves" by Cher (dealt with underage prostitution).

Hell even 80s rockers like Pat Benatar had very deep and quality stuff on their albums (she's only known to most for hits like "Love is a Battlefield", but she has songs dealing with themes like infanticide, domestic abuse, unemployment, and school shootings on her albums) and gangster rappers deal with real-world issues facing a lot of young people in today's inner cities.

That's why I totally recommend that no matter what a person's favorite type of music is, that they listen to a lot of different stuff from different decades and broaden their horizons instead of listening to just 1 thing 90% of the time. (Way back int the day I used to think rap was crap because of medicore tracks I heard on the radio - then I started actually listening to entire albums, especially those of the early 90s and the type of darker issues it dealt with and my opinion changed 180 degrees).

Zotis

08-04-15, 02:48 AM

The first song I memorised was Blink 182 - The Party Song, but I don't care for it, or Blink 182, at all any more. Although that was the first song I listened to enough to memorise, the first song I really fell in love with was No Use for a Name - Life Size Mirror.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xToD0cEeFP8

I still do like it, but I don't listen to them or Pop Punk any more. I saw No Use for a Name live and the lead singer refused to give us an autograph after the show. He even went so far as to lie to us and tell us he was just a roadie. Other bands I was really into when I was 16-17 were Sum 41, Goldfinger, Reset (who's members later formed Simple Plan, which I hated), Rufio, Mest, Yellowcard, Pulley, Choke, and other similar bands. Of those bands the one that I probably enjoyed the most, and still admire, is Rufio. I don't mind listening to some Pop Punk, but I rarely do anymore. It might be more nostalgia than anything else.

Yellowcard's album, Ocean Avenue, was fairly solid. It's considerably more refined then their older albums, but after it they also had a turning point which I felt was for the worse. The main problem was that one of their guitarists quit the band, and they hired a replacement. I think his name was Alex, anyway he worked really hard and was a pretty decent guitarist. But the problem was that at that point they actually started getting successful and becoming quite popular. That was the album that made everyone hear about them and start checking them out. I think they even placed on pop charts. When that happened the guitarist who left the band came crawling back, and they decided to give the position back to him and said goodbye to the replacement guitarist. Most fans felt it was very unfair, because that guy had really worked hard and passionately to earn that spot, where as the other guy had basically abandoned the band because they weren't that successful and only crawled back when it turned out they were becoming successful. Anyway, nothing they made after that drew my attention again. I have listened to a few of their songs since out of curiosity, but all I remember is they didn't appeal to me at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Umx5pEbm5ks

A kind of weird band that I was into was Choke. Their singer had a weird, but interesting voice and style of singing. I still have a couple of their albums, and I still find them interesting. Listening to them just now, I like it, but I haven't actually listened to them in years. I kind of lumped them in with Pop Punk, but I'm not really sure how to classify them. I remember at the time I knew nothing about genres, to me it was all just Punk. Anyway, I think this album is sick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVVNayH_J3Y

My friends and I used to often ridicule Simple Plan. They were in the same scene, and sometimes they'd be at shows with bands we did like, but we always hated on them. They were one of the most widely ridiculed Pop Punk bands at the time. It was the kind of thing that really lame 14 year-old girls, who thought they were Emo because they wore black, dyed their hair black, painted their nails black, and wore Converse shoes, listened to. Someone found out about this band, Reset. I think it had all the same members as Simple Plan, and it was before they changed their style and their name to Simple Plan. When I heard it at the time my reaction was, "And it has the same guitarist? Why did he go from being good to sucking?" Who knows, but it was a pretty half decent band. I don't really care for it anymore though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJa86x_0Nj0

A band that I soon became a huge fan of, and still am fond of, is Rufio. Rufio was my tag in online games and forums, and I still use it frequently. Their fast guitar playing was, and still is, amazing. Probably their weak point for me though was their vocals. I also started getting interested gradually in heavier music. I started moving away from Pop Punk and into Post-Hardcore. But as other bands like Yellowcard, Blink 182, Sum 41, Goldfinger, and Pulley started dropping off my playlists, Rufio remained for years to come.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnHMxGNc4p8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpq7u6uVBko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEzjhxYK1-M

Around this time, I was 17 or 18, I reached a very critical turning point in my experience with music. Back then the internet still felt very new, and I wasn't particularly versed with it. I chatted with friends on MSN, posted on Lucasforums (I was a huge Star Wars fan), and played Counter Strike addictively. Back then I would mostly learn about new bands from friends. I didn't really know how to find new music, or explore genres. I didn't even know how to identify the music I liked other than by comparing it with other similar bands. Well, one of my friends showed me this band called Thrice. I remember not really liking them at first and saying, "Every song sounds the same." But sometime later, maybe a month or two, I listened to them again and fell in love. I couldn't believe I accused their songs of all sounding the same, because they actually had a lot of individual character. In retrospective I've learned that when the album The Illusion of Safety came out there were line ups around the block at record stores and it was selling out like crazy. It was their third album, but their first two albums were actually pretty obscure. Their next album, The Artist in the Ambulance, held 16th place on the US top charts with the title track.

When I was 18 I got really depressed. I was living with my Mom and my two younger brothers, and it was like a storm of chaos in the house all the time with everyone fighting. At times I remember hating my brother, Stephen, who was a year and a half younger than me. We got into a few fist fights. Now, I was born and raised Christian. Both of my parents graduated from Seminary, and my Dad was even the pastor of several churches over the years. We went to church every Sunday. I went to Christian private schools, and most of my friends were Christians. Well my brother Stephen ended up moving in with my Dad. I started getting really depressed with school because due to missing school for 6 months when I was 16, and neglecting homework and studies, I had fallen back a year. I also started in a new school that year which was a very small private school. There was only one other person my age (one of my best friends for a couple years prior), and the next two oldest kids in my school were my two younger brothers. Well, my friend left the School to be home schooled, and I was all alone with no friends going to school with a bunch of little kids. Things at home were just aweful with all the fighting. I was working part-time at a grocery store, and because I was 18 and my Mom wasn't getting money from the government for me (or my other brother since he had moved in with my Dad) things were really tough for my Mom financially. So I was actually paying my own school tuition which was $200 a month because it was a private school. I got suspended from school for not doing my homework. I got really depressed from being behind and thinking about when I would graduate at the rate I was going. I eventually just stopped going to school. I just wouldn't even get out of bed in the morning. My Mom wasn't strong enough to physically make me, and she eventually would have to leave to go to work. I remember just sitting in bed crying, alone in the house, having skipped school. I didn't know what to do. Then one day, after about three days of that, my Dad came over. My Mom must have asked him to help. He came and comforted me and talked to me about my options and my future. I started spending more time with my Dad. Since I was 14 I hadn't really seen that much of him. My brothers and I would visit him occasionally, but it just felt like it wasn't that often or for very long. With all the fighting that had been going on at home with my Mom, she would occasionally say to me, "Well then go live with your Dad if you don't like it." Or she'd say something along those lines. When I really started connecting with my Dad I said to myself, "the next time my Mom says that, I'm going to say, 'okay I will move in with Dad.'" When I said that to myself it happened the very next day. So I ended up moving in with my Dad. I dropped out of school with the intention of working for several years and then going to college or university as a "mature student." I still felt depressed on a fairly regular basis, but things had at least stabilized.

Thrice was a band that had an interesting blend of singing and screaming. They were the band that really got me interested in screaming. Instrumentally they were awesome, with fast creative guitar riffs and well structured songs. Lyrically they were poetic and philisophical singing about the meaning of life and the state of ignorance of most people in the world. I really started thinking about the meaning of life, and "truth." I used to listen to their two albums, The Illusion of Safety, and The Artist in the Ambulance daily. And gradually I started liking their heavier songs more and their softer songs less.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zZ-FOjelms

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnJZi_N2vFk

I started moving into the world of Post-Hardcore. My friends were gradually listening to heavier music, and so was I. It matched my emotional state more too when I started going through serious depression. I don't really associate this type of music, or heavy music in general, or screaming, with anger and depression. This kind of music actually soothes me. Hearing Britney Spears or The Spice Girls or other really lame superficial shallow pop music makes me feel angry. Anyway, I started listening to bands like Finch, Funeral for a Friend, Thursday, and Atreyu.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBPT2ZgdNyk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAD6lJiHBdA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQXzT3RtMSQ

After I turned 19 I went to more shows in local bars. I saw quite a few of these bands live in their heyday. It was a pretty awesome music scene. The most inspiring concert I have ever been to in my entire life was Alexisonfire in 2003. At that time I was still on the fence with them. They were a lot heavier than anything I was really used to at the time. When I saw them live, as much as I liked the sound, my biggest hesitation was just not being able to understand their lyrics. As soon as they ended, before the crowd dispersed, I held up a sharpie and yelled out for an autograph. The lead singer took the sharpie and signed my shirt. Then people started shoving hats and things towards him for him to sign. He signed things for a while and the crowd gradually started dispersing. He came down into the small crowd that remained, after he finished signing everything that was handed to him, and just started talking to the fans. They were saying things like, "You cut your hair," and he replied, "Yeah, I'm impulsive." The whole concert, and the humility of the lead singer just captivated me. I started listening to their album a lot more. This is to this day my #1 favorite album of all time. I still listen to it frequently. I love it to death. I don't care for anything they've made since (except one demo, Math Sheets). The singer wore out his voice with the intensity of his screaming by their second album. But I think it was worth it. It embodied everything I felt. Their lyrics are among the most profound poetry I've ever heard in music. Their instrumentals (while not having quite as much character as Thrice) were incredibly skilful and the melodies so interesting. I love the balance between melody and raw heaviness. It's one of the purest forms of Hardcore music that I have ever heard. I will always cherish this album. I've listened to it so much, I've found errors in the lyric sheet. But some lines can't even be deciphered. I enjoy the mystery too.

"Jennifer, they lied to you when they said you couldn't breathe under water. I lied too when I said I was hard because I'm softer than a thrift store sweater, and twice as worn thin. I was cast away, but I will be found again. This I promise you, for sure."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFWMZBlmNSI

Guaporense

08-04-15, 03:32 AM

I was around 14-15 when I began listening to music seriously. Before that I had never understood the point of listening to music. In fact when I was around 13 my father asked me if I didn't like music at all. I don't remember what I answered at the time. Problem was that all the music I knew was just, well, boring and didn't resonate with me and indeed all the mainstream music doesn't resonate strongly with me, if compared to other people who get all emotional about some really silly music (I it still find it puzzling how people can love so hard stuff like Ramones, Beatles, Pink Floyd, among other Anglo-Saxon musicians, but anyway...), then it all changed when I got an Iron Maiden DVD documentary as a gift.

There was real music in there. Music that truly resonated within me, that took itself seriously enough for me to take it seriously and not as some silly nonsense as typical mainstream music sounds like. I don't believe metal has in principle anything to do with the feeling of being disliked by other people, though it's common lyrical theme. To me metal is just music that intelligent sensitive people who know what is good listen to.

In the first couple of years after I discovered Iron Maiden I could only listen to Iron Maiden. If I listened to something else I felt like: this is bad, it doesn't sound just like Iron Maiden, hence, it's not good! Oh, I was so close minded back then. I am really open minded, I listen to many bands in all genres: from speed metal, to traditional heavy metal, to NWBHM, to thrash metal, to European power metal, to North American power metal (exp. Jag Panzer, Ample Destruction, typical North American power metal very different from European power metal), to European death metal, to black metal and folk/viking metal. Though I like some North American death metal I disliked most of what I have listened to in terms of the genre. I also started listening to other genres of music besides metal, I listened to some progressive rock (Yes, Dream Theater, Rush, the good ones, not that Pink Floyd nonsense) and classical as well (Beethoven, Schubert, Vivaldi, Tchaikovsky are among my favorites) Still I think there is so much great music to discover.

What changed my opinion of other bands were Judas Priest and Helloween, bands that in the beginning I regarded as weaker than Iron Maiden but now I listen to them more than Iron Maiden. Iron Maiden is a good entry band for heavy metal but it is not as extremely good as other bands can be with it's more aggressive approach, pushing the artistic limits of music further in the directions Iron Maiden helped to develop in the "distant" past. Iron Maiden is to metal what Miyazaki is to animation: a good entry drug, accessible to newcomers and still loved by veterans with highly experienced ears/eyes. And the fact that Judas Priest was already more extreme and heavier than Maiden was and they were doing so a couple of years before Maiden, though Judas Priest lacked the good production in their early albums so the guitars sound really thin, also attracted me to Judas Priest.

Judas Priest (1974):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EVpdv4Zb-0

Same song played with modern guitar production and amplification technology:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJMmF1h-RHo

Same effects happened with Black Sabbath's early albums though they were still better produced than Priest's.

Eventually Judas Priest displaced Iron Maiden as my top favorite band, though Iron Maiden is still my official number 2, though I am more excited about releases from Helloween than either Judas Priest or Maiden these days (these old guys are just to old now). Helloween can be understood as a more extreme version of classical heavy metal. They themselves consider their band as a more extreme version of Accept. Though after a few years the mellow influences of Michael Kiske lead the band to become super light for a while, after he quit the band (because real metal is too evil and aggressive for him), Helloween returned to their core sound but with a more Weikath flavor instead of the dominant artistic influence of Kai Hansen. Who is Kai Hansen? He is a god, one of the greatest musicians of all time. Helloween with Weikath, Hansen and Kiske was godly but that lasted for only 2 albums, such combination of overwhelming musical talent was epic.

Now I am exploring more into folk metal bands, specially those with a lot of viking imagery in the cover of their albums and music that is a mixture of melodic death metal with more classical heavy metal influences. A very nice mixture indeed. I love how epic and serious they manage to sound:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtCZxF_tm3k

Their first and best album and the best album of the decade. Really powerful and inspiring music, with artistic flair and display genuine serious emotion, not weak silly mainstream music emotion.

Besides metal, progressive and classical I also experimented with some J-pop lately as well as classic bands like Legiao Urbana and Queen. As many anime contains a lot ofJ-pop styled music I decided to try listening to some of it for a while, it's very superficial music and I couldn't digest more than 15 minutes, I also felt the same way about bands like Beatles and Led Zeppelin.

90sAce

08-04-15, 03:44 AM

Guaporense

08-04-15, 03:58 AM

Good thread Zotis. My buddy is into screaming metal type stuff like this, so lately I've been around it a bit. I've never cared much for the screaming, really.

Most metal doesn't contain screaming vocals though. Some have very feminine delicate sounding vocals in fact, almost like Celine Dion :D:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T2-Gdza6rY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mrrylcds9U

Some made the joke that if you have a power metal band then you either need a female vocalist or a vocalist who sings like a girl. Though these two bands are not power metal but symphonic metal, perhaps the lightest genre of metal.

I'm certainly open to it, especially more now than ever, but it still doesn't do a lot for me. I notice though, I tend to really dig the music aside from that. Maybe they aren't the same as this kind of stuff but one of my favorite bands is Animals as Leaders, which is more or less screaming metal without the screaming (or maybe not, but that's how I thought of them when I first found them out). And today, I was introduced by Sedai to Polyphia, who I have spent the day listening to. Their music reminds me a little bit of the "post-hardcore" stuff, but maybe I'm being crazy.

I think these bands sound like more progressive rock than anything. Remind me a little about Dream Theater when it became progressive rock. Also, one thing that bothers me is people saying that bands with a lot of distorted guitar sound is metal, well, even J-pop songs these days have a lot of distorted guitars playing in the background. What defines metal is that the guitar is centerpiece, the most important element of the song, not the vocals, and that the song is characterized by a focused aggression/strong sense of theatricality. Anyway, metalheads know when metal is metal and when it is not. Most bands Americans call metal are not metal (true metal has not been popular in the US since 1990, while in Brazil most Brazilians have a better sense of what metal is). Neither of these bands are on listen on the database of Metal Archives, a database that contains over 100,000 metal bands, including punk/hardrock bands that are borderline metal.

Guaporense

08-04-15, 04:14 AM

Also I'm not sure why the OP is putting "metal" in the same group as punk and "hardcore" - I mean songs like this are pretty much the polar opposite of an "Offspring" or "Rise Against" track:

Indeed. Metal is completely different.

This thread needs some real ***** metal!

Proper New Wave of British Heavy Metal, one of the greatest NWBHM songs of all time:

(Saxon, Crusader)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhhDbaah9DQ

Proper Viking metal:

(Bathory, Hammerheart)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zfxo4i_gBC0

That's proper American power metal (from the 1980's when the US had many great metal bands):

(Sanctuary, Refuge Denied)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCkKpb2B4SA
(Jag Panzer, Hard as Steel)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjfiHbf_POs

Proper German power metal:

(Iron Savior, Warrior)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHgumow29OQ
(Powerwolf, Lupus Dei)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRueTKM_EDk

Some proper thrash metal:

(Vio-lence, Eternal Nightmare)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59-noFUUT2w
(Sodom, Nuclear Winter)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLp-JgswVb4

Some heavy ******** stuff!

Some proper pirate metal:

(Running Wild, Under Jolly Roger)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZUN6-JwwMA

Some proper progressive metal:

(Artillery, Khomaniac)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SewlhBM2PSE

Zotis

08-04-15, 09:20 AM

My story will enter the realm of Metal soon enough. :devil:

Mr Minio

08-04-15, 10:25 AM

Cool story, bro!

No Use For a Name and YellowCard sound too polished, too radio-friendly. Choke sounds cool, but I'm not a fan of the vocals. Reset sounds alright, I guess it would be a good music to listen to while playing GTA: San Andreas. :P Rufio's alright, too.

I used to love Thrice back when I was listening to this kind of music. I especially liked this song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xI_-tpPCXnE

Finch, Funeral for a Friend, Thursday, and Atreyu and all that stuff sucks! Huehuehue.

I will listen to alexisonfire album in its entirety pretty soon. I hope you're not gonna hate me if I bash it. :P

PS: I base these 'opinions' on the clips you posted, of course I listened only a minute of every one of them, so don't take these too seriously.

Plus rep for Guap, too, but there are some things in his post I don't like:
"To me metal is just music that intelligent sensitive people who know what is good listen to."

Mr Minio

08-04-15, 09:02 PM

Albums you recommended:

Alexisonfire - Alexisonfire (2002) - rating_2_5
Combatwoundedveteran - I Know a Girl Who Develops Crime Scene Photos (1999) - rating_3

Zotis

08-04-15, 10:21 PM

My taste in Metal is very differen't from yours Guap, but I'll get talking about Metal soon enough. 90'sAce, you make me laugh.

Mr Minio, why you little... Na but it's okay if you don't like those bands. I hope you'll like Alexisonfire, at least that album. I don't care if you end up bashing them though. When Viessu came out I bought it right away just because it was Thrice, but I was pretty disappointed because they changed their sound so much. I really tried to like it, but I soon grew bored of it. Most fans of that album didn't like any of Thrice's old stuff.

Guaporense

08-05-15, 01:16 AM

Zotis, well, my taste in metal is what I think it is the "metalhead" taste in metal. Basically the type of metal people who like metal more than anything else usually like, stuff like Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Bathory, Artillery, Vio-Lence, Sodom, Kreator, Destruction, Dark Angel, Sarcofago, Celtic Frost, Helloween, Blind Guardian and others. While there are groups who are more into melodic metal, while others more into thrash or death or black, some just into classical heavy metal as well, with bands like Mercyful Fate, Virgin Steele, Diamond Head among others besides the big famous ones (Accept, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath), I think even my taste is metal is perhaps average among these different groups.

My story will enter the realm of Metal soon enough. :devil:

I felt like posting that because of 90's ace comments. :D Anyway I think I got "overboard".

False Writer

08-05-15, 01:39 AM

Well before this thread gets too "metal'ed up" I'll put these 2 Saddest Landscape songs here that are pretty much my 2 favorite Screamo songs. These songs put me in such a mellow mood, and are some of the few songs where I feel compelled to listen to the whole thing rather than just the first minute or so. Kinda weird because the mood seems depressing but it's really not, it actually makes me feel good in a way. Music can do some extraordinary things, huh?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UI1_V5xgDY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE7yK1-QbW4

Zotis

08-05-15, 02:24 AM

Don't worry Guap, I don't mind if you go overboard. The only person that makes me worry is 90'sAce. I intend to ignore him for the most part. I just hope people don't start arguing with him. Anyway, you definitely have the characteristics of a metalhead. I don't consider myself one though I'm more of a skramz. There is quite a lot of Metal that I don't like. And a lot of the Metal I do like is fused with elements of Hardcore. If anything Punk is the least represented genre in this thread, because Pop Punk is about the only Punk I ever really listened to, and now it's less than 1% of what I listen to. But I include Punk because Hardcore started out as a sub-genre of Punk.

The Saddest Landscape are definitely what I would consider a fundamental Screamo band. One of the greats. And for some reason I always associate them with Kite Flying Society. I think it's because I discovered both bands at around the same time, and they have similar reputation in the skramz community. They also give me very similar vibes musically.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvdsKyaxxU4

Zotis

08-11-15, 02:08 AM

I started reviewing this album for the thread Swan made, but I ended up talking quite a bit about my philosophy of music, and the history of Emo, so I decided to put it here instead and continue talking more about the music rather then just "reviewing."

http://www.spirit-of-metal.com/les%20goupes/C/Cap'N%20Jazz/Boys%2016-18%20Years...%20Age%20of%20Action/Boys%2016-18%20Years...%20Age%20of%20Action.jpg http://cdn.discogs.com/micQ9ziE8YXBnthbL0r-tqjU4ho=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb()/discogs-images/R-1231368-1202522673.jpeg.jpg

Cap'n Jazz

These guys were an influential Emo band of the early 90's. They formed in 1989. Their first productions came out in 1993; two EP's: Boys 16 to 18 Years... Age of Action, and Sometimes If You Stand Further Away from Something, It Does Not Seem As Big. Sometimes You Can Stand So Close to Something You Can Not Tell What You Are Looking At. I had never heard of them until I started delving further into Emo over the last two or three weeks, and now I've been seeing their name pop up left right and center. It seems that pretty much everyone who listens to Emo has heard of these guys. I think their newer albums head more in the general direction of current 4th wave Emo, which in my opinion is pretty lame. I listened to Nothing Dies with Blue Skies (1994) and sampled a few songs off their 1998 compilation album Analphabetapolothology, and aside from just being a little boring, it felt like a vital piece from their older music was missing. I don't like the new direction that a lot of Emo bands went in after big budget music studios started screwing up the genre in the late 90's. 4th wave Emo is just so boring. It's like this less creative socially acceptable version of Emo that is more normalised for the general public. But back in the glory days Emo was really just Hardcore that they started giving a new name to. Cap'n Jazz was one of the bands that helped to shape the genre. They were creative with a unique sound and considerably more musical range then most bands. They had their heart and soul in Hardcore with a very Punk attitude, and they had a good balance between melody and aggression. I never used to like this kind of music because the softer parts didn't interest me as much as what I was listening to, and the heavier parts just weren't heavy enough. The subtle aggression of this kind of music is really starting to grow on me, as are the melodies. For me it's like exploring every vein of the passionate music that I love, I mean extreme music I guess. Or maybe it's just about screaming and yelling. If you take bands with very similar instrumental musical properties and compare one band that screams or yells with another band that doesn't, I will take the former and leave the latter. I have a tremendous affinity for screaming, but recently I've been exploring yelling more. That's what these guys have. Mostly they sing, and they do that in a very interesting way too, but then when their aggression comes out it's in the form of a slightly raspy yelling. There is Jazz influence in these guys too which I don't see often. Sometimes unusual instruments not normally seen in Emo music come out. I detest Ska, but I really love and appreciate the way that Cap'n Jazz uses the "odd" instruments with subtlety and in a way that goes really well with their music and their energy. They are a band that have a very strong personality in their music. I can tell their other albums are decent, but I feel like their first two albums had something just a little bit more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nHWgr94U38

Zotis

08-11-15, 02:58 AM

Alright, back to my story. Post-Hardcore was my first music love. For some strange reason, and I'm not sure why, I took a really long time to getting around to listening to the band Underoath. They were a band that many of my friends were into, and a lot of people in the Post-Hardcore scene also liked. I went on a couple of dates with a girl who showed them to me the first time. They were really good, so I went out and bought one of their albums. It was a pretty glorious experience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d27f8rZg938

I got bored of this album pretty quickly, but I still like their first three albums. For me the first time listening to this, and not really being that exposed to intense screaming, was really mesmerising. They're Only Chasing Safety was their newest album at the time, and their only other album that I knew of was The Changing of Times which I ended up liking a lot more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSLuvONav60&list=PL4D4852E62D675DEE

It wasn't until my Screamo phase that I discovered Underoath's first two albums, which had been out of print. Their first two albums are infinitely superior music-wise. I mean they are so pure, heavy, and awesome! I think it's common knowledge that Underoath are a Christian band, but reading their lyrics you wouldn't be able to tell. Dallas Taylor, their first singer, was actually singing about God, the devil, and very "Christian" themes. The first song on their album Act of Depression is called Heart of Stone and it's about false Christians giving Christians a bad name, and giving God a bad name, because of how they condemn other people hypocritically and don't show love. All of the songs on their first two albums are over 5 minutes long. There is so much passion in these albums that listening to it now it still gives me goosebumps. At the end of the album Act of Depression the last track is actually just their singer talking, sharing the Gospel, and telling people there's more to live for, there's hope in life, and not to give up. Downloads and uploads usually cut it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPET28XBH9k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA-Nm3qG93Y

After I discovered Metalcore I still didn't really go that far out of my way to find new bands. I particularly liked Killswitch Engage and Poison the Well, but I still listened mostly to Post-Hardcore. I got my first introduction to Metal when my brother and I became friends with a co-worker of ours named James. He was the first true metalhead that I became friends with. I used to mostly avoid Metal because I didn't like bands like Iron Maiden, Slayer, and Metallica. When James introduced me to Death and Opeth a significant door opened to me. I still took my time and didn't really delve in right away. It wasn't until I delved into Screamo that I really started researching music genres and finding bands more pro-actively.

I have this CD and I'm quite fond of it, Poison the Well - The Opposite of December.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRZ_Uvzmwo4&list=PLjJZVeY4I-MpwBnX2QG2dwXIyjRHdl99T

I actually have Death - Symbolic on vinyl and the record itself is transparent white.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbp60IX_jFQ&list=PL95CCC7F79B84FB7A

This is the only Opeth album I have, and the only one that I really listened significantly to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a267gFmAxTw

False Writer

08-11-15, 11:48 AM

Great entries Zotis! I did try to listen to Cap'n Jazz before but just couldn't get into them really. Though I think it was their later stuff I was listening to. I'll check out their earlier stuff.

Underoath is awesome! They were a band I listened to quite a bit growing up. Songs like "Reinventing Your Exit" and "It's Dangerous Business Walking Out Your Front Door" I must've heard over 100 times. I've only heard some of their first two albums, but they do sound good!

Poison the Well - The Opposite of December is, in my opinion, one of the greatest metalcore albums ever. It was very influential in how bands would sound going into the 2000s. A few years ago I did manage to find the original CD in a store, needless to say I bought it right when I saw it!

Guaporense

08-11-15, 07:03 PM

I used to mostly avoid Metal because I didn't like bands like Iron Maiden, Slayer, and Metallica. When James introduced me to Death and Opeth a significant door opened to me. I still took my time and didn't really delve in right away. It wasn't until I delved into Screamo that I really started researching music genres and finding bands more pro-actively.

Hum, while metal is a highly varied genre there are core elements of it that, well, make it a genre. Bands like Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, Slayer, Metallica and Judas Priest, exemplify the core elements of heavy metal. Now, one that dislikes bands like those but likes other metal bands, is one who I guess doesn't like the core elements of metal while appreciating bands that incorporate other elements into their music besides the core metal elements.

Zotis

08-11-15, 07:38 PM

Hum, while metal is a highly varied genre there are core elements of it that, well, make it a genre. Bands like Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, Slayer, Metallica and Judas Priest, exemplify the core elements of heavy metal. Now, one that dislikes bands like those but likes other metal bands, is one who I guess doesn't like the core elements of metal while appreciating bands that incorporate other elements into their music besides the core metal elements.

I think when Death Metal, Hardcore, and Black Metal began is when the music starts getting interesting to me. Nothing from before that interests me, except for some classical music. I don't like Rock, and I don't like a lot of Rock elements in Metal and Punk. So the founding bands are just too Rocky for me. Death Metal was the point where Metal began to interest me. A lot of the Thrash I like has Death elements. I feel like Metal developed it's core elements more when it separated itself further from it's Rock roots.

Swan

08-11-15, 07:53 PM

Zotis, have you heard of Arsonists Get All the Girls?

Zotis

08-11-15, 07:57 PM

Yeah, they were one of the first Deathcore bands that got me into Deathcore. I haven't listened to them in ages.

False Writer

08-11-15, 10:00 PM

Yeah Arsonist Get All the Girls were pretty big during the Myspace era.

Guaporense

08-12-15, 06:20 PM

I think when Death Metal, Hardcore, and Black Metal began is when the music starts getting interesting to me. Nothing from before that interests me, except for some classical music. I don't like Rock, and I don't like a lot of Rock elements in Metal and Punk. So the founding bands are just too Rocky for me. Death Metal was the point where Metal began to interest me. A lot of the Thrash I like has Death elements. I feel like Metal developed it's core elements more when it separated itself further from it's Rock roots.

I understand what you are saying. It's true that Black Sabbath's 1970's albums are much closer to rock than black and death metal are. I like rock, thought and I consider metal to be a genre of rock.

For instance, in this Helloween interview at multishow:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY5X9V2ixIU

They said: "Slayer, Iron Maiden, it's all rock." and that they took heavy influence from Rainbow which is a hard rock band. They took heavy influence from many rock bands and are essentially a heavier/faster/more extreme version of melodic rock like Rainbow. So yeah, Helloween is pretty much extreme rock music.

While I guess that stuff like Burzum is so distant from it's rock influences that it's hard to notice them. But it is still, technically, a subgenre of black metal which is a subgenre of metal which is a subgenre of hard rock which is a subgenre of rock.

Zotis

08-12-15, 07:04 PM

While Metal had it's roots in Rock and the early Metal bands started as Rock, I don't think Heavy Metal was ever considered a sub-genre of Rock, at least not technnically. I don't think of a genre as a sub-genre once it starts developing it's own sub-genres. Sometimes even before that, once a style of music distances itself from it's roots and is clearly identifiable, then I don't consider it a sub-genre anymore. But this is something I have only recently started thinking as I have been reflecting on the nature of genres and the difference between a genre and a sub-genre.

Zotis

08-12-15, 10:45 PM

I don't think of Death Metal as a sub-genre of Metal. It had a clearly defined movement when it was established. It wasn't Metal bands that started getting labelled "Death Metal." It was a sudden arrival of a new sound and style that had never been done before. It was clearly identified as Death Metal from conception.

Genres like Emo started out as a bunch of hardcore bands that were getting labelled by magazines, and when they saw that people were calling them "Emo" they said to themselves, "What is Emo, we're just Hardcore." That to me is a sub-genre, at least it was during it's early days. Gradually it became consistently identifiable as different from Hardcore, and now that it has had several waves and it has sub-genres of it's own, like "Twinkly Emo," I don't think Emo can be considered a sub-genre of Hardcore anymore. Another example of a sub-genre is Mathcore. When people talk about Metalcore, Mathcore bands are often included and no one ever says, "That's not Metalcore, it's Mathcore." But I wouldn't consider Metalcore a sub-genre of Hardcore anymore since it's now had more than one wave and it has at least one sub-genre within itself. Eventually Mathcore will develop to having it's own sub-genres and there will be a new wave of Mathcore that builds upon the earlier style. I think that music genres are constantly developing and growing like this.

All of this isn't to invalidate what you, Guap, or anyone else says about a genre being a sub-genre of another genre. I understand what you mean when you say that Metal is a sub-genre of Rock, and I'm not trying to negate that. But I definitely look at a sub-genre differently once it grows into a full fledged genre.

When I like and get interested in a genre, like Death Metal, it's a completely separate entity in my mind from other related genres, and/or it's roots. I love certain elements of Death Metal, and other elements I strongly dislike. The vast majority of Death Metal bands have 0 appeal for me. And older "Heavy Metal" has even less appeal. The core elements of Metal, as a concept, are interesting, but they didn't appeal to my personal taste until they reached a certain point in their development. Gradually I'm getting interested in older music, but for me right now that means the early 90's and the 80's.

I like Black Metal more than Death Metal, but I would still say over 50% of Black Metal bands don't interest me at all. And the largest cluster of Black Metal bands that I do like are bands that have a lot of Hardcore infused into their music. I like the sound of Burzum as a purely "Metal" Black Metal band, but I usually stop listening to a band if I find out they're murderers and arsonists, or if their lyrics are "hail Satan." I can respect their musical talent, but I don't need to listen to evil satanic music just because they're talented. There's a few bands that I have stopped listening to for that reason. I won't necessarily totally abstain from their music, but I will at least tend to listen to it less.

Guaporense

08-14-15, 12:32 AM

I guess that this genre/subgenre distinction is a matter of nomenclature/taxonomy.

Many metal heads regard metal as a separate world from rock, others regard it as a genre of rock. Though nobody in metal regards death metal as separate from metal. I view death metal as a type of heavy metal, it's very similar to the rest of heavy metal in fact and many death metal bands make thrash metal albums as well, since the two genres are very close together.

Interesting to know that you are a hardcore christian who likes extreme music. Though there are lots of people like that:

http://api.ning.com/files/Mjs7omktWo3rc2p8AbqQpmAmxiobEe3jBq4sfX1qfEs4rG4toX8DN0z3jIkIUHznE4zyEyjeBFMPLRhSc17L3BUnIZpqe074/MetalChurch.jpg

:D

Zotis

08-14-15, 01:09 AM

I separate every genre of Metal from each other. I separate Death Metal from Heavy Metal. But I don't separate Death Metal from Metal.

Guaporense

08-14-15, 01:12 AM

Hah, I see.

Zotis

01-11-16, 05:49 AM

I have kind of lost track to some extent, having not updated the thread for a while, but I basically reached the point where I was introduced to Metal. Now the single most pivotal point in my life, in terms of music, came a few years after my introduction to Metal. For a few years I just sort of coasted listening to the handful of bands that I liked, occasionally going to shows and concerts, and occasionally picking up a new band here and there mostly from friends. I already mentioned that it was when I was 24 that I decided to find out what Screamo really was and looked it up online. That night I pulled an all nighter listening to music and posting in the music boards on gaiaonline. I thought Screamo was so obscure because after all those years I'd never heard of it until I looked it up myself. Well apparently a lot of people knew quite a lot about it, and while there are a lot of ignorant twats who think anything with screaming is Screamo, thanks to the internet awareness of real Screamo was spreading. In a two week period I listened to more bands and types of music than in the rest of my life combined. One of my favorite albums from that time which I still thoroughly enjoy is the Metalcore band Iwrestledabearonce's S/T.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdtDI4LmXu8

At the time it was so brutally heavy and yet so intriguing. Kind of like how wasabi is so hot yet tasty. Iwrestledabearonce isn't really heavy compared to Goregrind/Deathgrind/Pornogrind or raw Black Metal, but at the time that was the heaviest thing I was into. And I loved that their vocalist was a woman.

Edit: Orchid was the first Screamo band to seriously capture my attention. I remember checking out a bunch of Grindcore and being interested in exploring it, but nothing appealed to me initially. The first Grindcore band that interested me was Pig Destroyer, and I found them through a split they had with Orchid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G53Lan0o_fs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRxVTWO0EOc

AboveTheClouds

01-11-16, 12:54 PM

Also I'm not sure why the OP is putting "metal" in the same group as punk and "hardcore" - I mean songs like this are pretty much the polar opposite of an "Offspring" or "Rise Against" track:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO6giM9UAv0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgK2Gv18fbc

You could not be more wrong, lol. If you think either of those bands is a good representation of either Punk or Hardcore, you're sadly mistaken friend, and we shall leave it at that.

AboveTheClouds

01-11-16, 12:59 PM

AboveTheClouds

01-11-16, 01:16 PM

I understand what you are saying. It's true that Black Sabbath's 1970's albums are much closer to rock than black and death metal are. I like rock, thought and I consider metal to be a genre of rock.

For instance, in this Helloween interview at multishow:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY5X9V2ixIU

They said: "Slayer, Iron Maiden, it's all rock." and that they took heavy influence from Rainbow which is a hard rock band. They took heavy influence from many rock bands and are essentially a heavier/faster/more extreme version of melodic rock like Rainbow. So yeah, Helloween is pretty much extreme rock music.

While I guess that stuff like Burzum is so distant from it's rock influences that it's hard to notice them. But it is still, technically, a subgenre of black metal which is a subgenre of metal which is a subgenre of hard rock which is a subgenre of rock.

Black Metal and Thrash both have more in common with punk in my eyes, but if we argue semantics, it's all rock and roll. But again that's just blues, jazz and folk. And I mean Guns and Roses/Broken Bones/Profanatica is a far cry from Robert Johnson/Muddy Waters/John Lee Hooker.. I love how music and genre classifications can have so many variations. To be honest I see Blues/Jazz and Folk more closely identifiable with disco,funk and motown than rock, metal or punk. And see Punk being a bigger influence on extreme genre's of metal than Rock.

Zotis

01-12-16, 12:10 AM

Can I ask why you guys call it screamo? is it in the ideology or is it basically the same thing as Emotional Hardcore? Because I've only heard of Orchid be referred to as an Emo band, even like Hot Crossed, Rites of Spring, Moss Icon and stuff I've only heard referred to as Emo. That's why I used to get mad when people say "Emo kids" Emo is music damnit, not fashion sense.

And on a side note, anyone a fan of Scandi Hardcore?
Screamo is a genre that stemmed from Emotive Hardcore. Emotional Hardcore is a common misconception that began when Emo started getting mainstream attention in the mid-late 90's. Moss Icon and Rites of Spring are classic examples of first and second wave Emo. Third and fourth wave Emo are softer and more melodic, like Dashboard Confessional and American Football. Hot Cross (not Hot Crossed) is one of those bands that blurrs the lines between Emo and Screamo, and there are a lot of bands that do so. Orchid is not a band that I have ever seen anyone confuse as Emo before though. They are one of the staple entry level Screamo bands.

There is an ideology that surrounding Emo as Emotional Music, assosiated with black clothing, hair, nail polish, and cutting your wrists, or just being depressed for no reason. But I think that ideology is based purely on a misconception about the genre in the first place. Because Emo was an underground genre that started gaining mainstream attention, and record labels began marketing it a certain way. And they would often market bands as Emo that weren't Emo at all, like My Chemical Romance. So that's where I think it comes from. I remember when I was a teenager and I was into Post-Hardcore, I had no idea it was even called Post-Hardcore and neither did any of my friends. We didn't know what Emo was, we didn't know what Screamo was, we barely knew what Punk was, and we confused everything. So I can understand why so many people got (and still get) it wrong.

But Screamo is a real genre that is distinctly different from Emo. Screamo is heavier instrumentally and has harsher screaming. Every Screamo band screams, but a lot of Emo bands don't. Some Emo bands have coarse vocals, and some don't even have that. Most Screamo bands don't have any singing at all, just screaming. There are some Emo bands that have intense screaming, but they usually balance it off with softer singing too. Generally Emo is more melodic. The first two waves of Emo had more screaming and heavier instrumentals closer to Hardcore, but third and fourth wave Emo bands often have no screaming at all and much softer instrumentals.

Rites of Spring are considered the first Emo band, but Emo wasn't a thing back then so they considered themselves Hardcore. I find it fascinating how genres blend together and are born out of other genres. The debates between artists and experts, and the misconceptions from the public and media create a very interesting mystery. I really enjoy digging through it and discovering the various perspectives and what really happened. Emo is something I've been researching a fair amount in the last couple years and exploring more. But I've still barely scratched the surface.

I think Rites of Spring were briefly mentioned in the documentary American Hardcore, because they emerged around the time the first wave of Hardcore ended.

Captain Steel

01-12-16, 12:48 AM

Swan

01-12-16, 12:50 AM

Zotis will spend a month listening to that if you spend a month listening to grindcore and screamo. :D

AboveTheClouds

01-12-16, 12:53 AM

Captain Steel

01-12-16, 12:54 AM

Zotis will spend a month listening to that if you spend a month listening to grindcore and screamo. :D

Touche'!!!

AboveTheClouds

01-12-16, 12:55 AM

Zotis will spend a month listening to that if you spend a month listening to grindcore and screamo. :D

Starting with Nasum - Inhale/Exhale because it's a classic:cool:

AboveTheClouds

01-12-16, 01:01 AM

Because I feel like this is an appropriate thread, I found my vest with my records. Yes it's mostly Black Metal.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/grimfist/VestFront_1.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/grimfist/VestBack.jpg

Zotis

01-12-16, 01:03 AM

I never really listened too it man, just knew enough that scene kids and emo did not correlate in the way people thought. I'm more of a D-Beat/Crust/UK82/PV type of guy. But I never understood how Dashboard a band that I thought was just awful could be placed into the same genre as bands that seemingly play hardcore(because until this point my main exposure was Moss Icon and Hot Crossed;) from a dude who was in my social class), so hearing them be called emo as well, it just didn't compute for me and still doesn't, oh well I guess it don't have too. So can I ask you then Zotis, would you consider Alexisonfire to be more Screamo or Post-Hardcore, and which do you prefer the S/T or Watch Out!?

I think I saw American Hardcore years ago, but didn't play much attention I just rememeber Ian Mackaye yelling and some live footage of Decontrol.
I think Dashboard Confessional are considered second wave Emo. They were one of those commercial attempts at making Emo marketable. The first two waves of Emo are so different from the second two waves. Fortunately bands that play in the style of the first two waves are still around, and new bands of that style are still emerging. It's still alive in the underground scene.

Scene kids are the lamest bunch of idiots in the music world. They make me sick. I went to a house party with a co-worker once, and when I got there I realised she was a scene kid and so were all her friends. It was the worst party I've ever been to in my life. I ditched them all and went back home.

Moss Icon and Rites of Spring ARE the definition of Emo. It's the crap like Dashboard Confessional that you should dissasosiate with Emo if anything. Think of them more like New Wave, Contemporary, or something generic and boring like that. They basically invaded Emo, changed it, and ruined it. I just like to pretend that crap doesn't even exist. :D

Alexisonfire are technically Post-Hardcore, but they are the closest thing to Screamo in the Post-Hardcore realm. I prefer their S/T, but Watch Out is decent. There is one other song of theirs I love, it's the only unique song on their Math Sheets Demos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lITrruEapEc

AboveTheClouds

01-12-16, 01:11 AM

Zotis

01-12-16, 01:25 AM

Zotis, I think you should take a short break from your past for a while or completely "disassociate" from it (because even the music that may have helped you escape your pain may well be perceived as your emotional salve of those times, but it will still be forever associated with your past).
As an experiment, spend one month listening to only bubble-gum music of the 60's & 70's.

Try this one on for starters. Sure, it's a song about a failed relationship, but the lyrics can be applied to leaving your past & your pain behind and moving on into the future!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gd-DJJfdyLg

Well, I'll listen to it, I just won't spend a month listening to it exclusively. But there's only so much effort I'm willing to put into trying to find something I like in a genre I haven't found anything I like yet before I just move on. Still, I'm always willing to acquire new taste and expand myself as a person.

I do really like this one Twee Pop band called All Girl Summer Fun Band:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M37EkcmlVAA

Because I feel like this is an appropriate thread, I found my vest with my records. Yes it's mostly Black Metal.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/grimfist/VestFront_1.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/grimfist/VestBack.jpg

I'm going to steal that vest.

I have a backpack with 30+ pins. Mostly comic book and video game stuff, a couple movie pins. And I just bought three badges to sow on, Akira, A Clockwork Orange, and Death. I used to have some more band pins years ago, but they got lost somewhere. The trouble with pins is they occasionally fall off.

Also... I really dig that bullet chain belt. I wanted to get one myself years back, but they are like $80 at a military surplus store.

Zotis

01-12-16, 01:45 AM

We used to have scene girls show up at shows and try to get in with the boys and stuff, and usually they'ed get Ye Olde Fu*k and Chuck or just plain ignored. But it was always about their credibility and being cool and dark, that chick I told you about in PM's was kind of like that and even told me that she liked having me as a friend because people wouldn't mess with her and think twice before saying anything rude, which is in all reality pretty damn pathetic.

I don't think I've heard the math sheet demo's, so I will check that out. I agree that the S/T is better, I remember when I saw the music video for 44. Caliber Love Letter like 13 years ago I was very much hooked on that song and the riff. But A dagger through the heart of St Angeles is my favorite song by them.

A Dagger Through the Heart of St. Angeles used to be my favorite song of theirs too. "Any notion of self-government was left bleeding on the pitcher's mound." But I just love every song on that album equally now. They're all so amazing. When I get introduced to new bands I always look at their earliest material first. I have found so many bands that put out a couple spectacular albums and then develop a more mainstream sound. People just don't stay true to their self when they enter into the industry, it's such a shame. I don't know why people let those industry corporate suits tell them how to sound when their original music is what got them there in the first place. But I don't know, I'm sure there are many factors to a band changing their sound over time.

Your story reminds me of when I went over to a friend's place to chill, and she had a couple of other friends over too. They looked like they were into extreme music so I asked them what kind of music they liked. They said Death Metal. And I asked if they liked Death. They said no, they weren't into that kind of Death Metal. They liked White Chapel. That was the end of that conversation, lol.

AboveTheClouds

01-12-16, 01:53 AM

I've lost so many damn pins over the years from moshpits to drunken f*ckery, some of my really cool ones are gone, my Toxic Holocaust(It was a big yellow square pin, soooo nice)/Black Witchery/Tsjuder/Havohej/Boston Red Sox/Wu Tang(Yes I rocked a Wu Tang pin on my vest) I actually have an Evil Dead pin on my favorite Red Sox hat, and I have a Black Sabbath pin on the one side of the collar, but I lifted it up for better pic. Also the back around the Sarcofago is supposed to be studs as well, I even have the bag of studs to do it, just never got around too it. Might do it for a project, gotta love DIY ethic, sewed/studded that whole thing myself.

Those bullets cost me $150, and are one of the nicest belts I've ever seen. I've seen people with pure silver ones and gun metal ones and all this garbage, they don't compete with the real rounds(I think mine is either M16 or .308 but I don't know much about guns) Mine be the real deal. :)

Also, with this talk of Death, which was your favorite album? I gotta say Leprosy or Individual Thought Patterns

Zotis

01-12-16, 02:08 AM

I don't think I could pick a favorite Death album. Humanity is the one I've listened to the most because it's the only one I actually have a physical copy of. The Sound of Perseverance was the one I listened to the most initially, but I actually like the less polished sound of their other albums a bit more. Only their first two albums wouldn't contend, not that they're bad or anything. It's just that once he got really philosophical he got a lot more interesting.

I'm listening to Nasum - Inhale Exhale right now. :p I haven't really given Nasum a lot of attention before. I definitely like the higher pitched screaming that keeps jumping in over the deeper screams that make up the majority of the vocals.

Man, I need to go to some shows. In the last five years I've only been to one show. It was this three piece Grindcore/Powerviolence band called Goat Faced Killa. The lead singer worked at an internet cafe that I went to, and I hit it off with him so he invited me to the show. They were pretty good except that after a couple songs the guitarist maxed out his amp to compete with the drums and it drowned out the vocals. So the lead singer was going pretty intense and it was like he wasn't screaming anything at all. Still a pretty fun experience. Oh and it was in a tiny art gallery. Half the people there had to stand on the sidewalk, and the next two bands completely sucked.

AboveTheClouds

01-12-16, 02:35 AM

House shows are the wildest dude, big house party with bands playing downstairs, kegs, bottles, joints etc. People moshing in a living room/den/kitchen is interesting/hilarious/fun as hell. Smallest venue I've been in was a basement of a building but above it was a butcher shop so it smelled like meat, held maybe 40-50people, it was a local show, not a very good bands, not worth going. Best venue ever here was called the underground, it was so cramped and tiny that gang vocals were always a thing and the pits were so much fun that everyone basically had to get involved.

Nasum is really good, their vocalist died in the 2004 Asian Tsunami :( so after that they disbanded. Last Grindcore album I listened too was Pig Destroyer - Prowler In The Yard, which is probably my favorite by them if only for two songs called Murder Blossom "Dyed red hair, a forest green dress and a pair of kitchen knives. It was the last time I ever saw a rose." 18 seconds of awesome. And Trojan Whore "Half in darkness she stands in a dress of shrapnel, smoke and torn flags. Dragging off cigarettes of human skin. Eyes like cracked eggshells empty as life. Her index fingers drip mothers milk like hypodermic needles. She stumbles though my veins high on ash and dry semen fiending for love." J.R Hayes writes beautifully.

Also Goat Faced Killa is totally the best play on Ghostface Killah ever.

Zotis

01-12-16, 03:08 AM

Also Goat Faced Killa is totally the best play on Ghostface Killah ever.

It is, except that I think the Scream series is not worth referencing because it sucks. Still, at the end of the day their name doesn't matter, only their music does. But yeah, it's a good play on words.

House shows are awesome. I went to a show in the basement of a house for the band Alaskan, in Ottawa. The web site said the show was an hour earlier than it actually was, so I showed up early and hung out with the band. They were pretty cool guys, and we talked about movies. They let me in for free without paying the venue fee, and even gave me a cassette for free which I still have in a box somewhere. I hung out with a band member's cousins, and they told me crazy stories like how they broke a chair over someone at a show. In the mosh pit I hit my head on a low hanging pipe, so I chilled off to the side for the rest of it. It was like 80's first wave Hardcore again, it was so crazy and awesome.

Zotis

01-12-16, 03:15 AM

Nasum is really good, their vocalist died in the 2004 Asian Tsunami :( so after that they disbanded. Last Grindcore album I listened too was Pig Destroyer - Prowler In The Yard, which is probably my favorite by them if only for two songs called Murder Blossom "Dyed red hair, a forest green dress and a pair of kitchen knives. It was the last time I ever saw a rose." 18 seconds of awesome. And Trojan Whore "Half in darkness she stands in a dress of shrapnel, smoke and torn flags. Dragging off cigarettes of human skin. Eyes like cracked eggshells empty as life. Her index fingers drip mothers milk like hypodermic needles. She stumbles though my veins high on ash and dry semen fiending for love." J.R Hayes writes beautifully.

My favorite Pig Destroyer album is Painter of Dead Girls. Prowler in the Yard is really good too. I have Phantom Limb on CD, and I bought Book Burner on vinyl for a friend of mine.

AboveTheClouds

01-12-16, 03:24 AM

It is, except that I think the Scream series is not worth referencing because it sucks. Still, at the end of the day their name doesn't matter, only their music does. But yeah, it's a good play on words.

House shows are awesome. I went to a show in the basement of a house for the band Alaskan, in Ottawa. The web site said the show was an hour earlier than it actually was, so I showed up early and hung out with the band. They were pretty cool guys, and we talked about movies. They let me in for free without paying the venue fee, and even gave me a cassette for free which I still have in a box somewhere. I hung out with a band member's cousins, and they told me crazy stories like how they broke a chair over someone at a show. In the mosh pit I hit my head on a low hanging pipe, so I chilled off to the side for the rest of it. It was like 80's first wave Hardcore again, it was so crazy and awesome.

Lol dude.
https://acknowledgektl.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/20140608-115019-42619212.jpg

This is Ghostface Killah, he is a member of the Wu Tang Clan. I thought this is what they were referring too. haha

I've been to some hardcore shows (Hardcore like Guns Up!, STAY GOLD, Verse, Daggermouth) and they'ed put folding tables in the middle of the circle pit, and someone would always end up being put through it. Craziest circle pit I've been in was The Exploited, it was HUGE like 100+ people running in a circle thrashing, and the few times I've seen Dropkick Murphys there were like 5 or 6 little pits all over the crowd, people going banana's. Honestly I prefer Circle Pits to regular mosh pits, their way more fun.

I used to know some local bands and was in contact with some from other places. I've met Marco Banco from Blasphemy, Joel Grind from Toxic Holocaust(he signed stuff for me, and we chatted before he took the stage) Dagon from Inquisition and Chuck Keller from Order From Chaos/Ares Kingdom. Those are the memorable ones for me.

AboveTheClouds

01-12-16, 03:27 AM

My favorite Pig Destroyer album is Painter of Dead Girls. Prowler in the Yard is really good too. I have Phantom Limb on CD, and I bought Book Burner on vinyl for a friend of mine.

Was actually so dissapointed in Phantom Limb, I preordered it and got a shirt and everything, and I did not like it anywhere NEAR Prowler/PODG/Terrifyer. Still haven't listened to Book Burner yet, kind of apprehensive.

Zotis

01-12-16, 03:59 AM

Oh man, I know so little about the Wu Tang Clan. Haha, I totally thought it was the antagonist from Scream they were referencing. Well, that's much better then.

I must admit that Phantom Limb was one of the Pig Destroyer albums that I really liked initially. But I bought the CD having not listened to it in years, and yeah I was actually a bit disappointed. I mean it's still good, but it's no Painter of Dead Girls or Prowler in the Yard.

I've been to three Underoath concerts. I remember one in particular: I was in the mosh pit doing my own thing having fun. More or less bumping into people, but not trying to hurt anyone, and embracing the bruises I was getting. But this one dick head who was standing on the edge of the mosh pit, not moshing himself, shoved me back in when I paused to take a bit of a breather. The first time I was like, what a dick, but the second time it really ticked me off. So I went out the other side of the mosh pit, pushed my way through the crowd until I was behind him and shoved him into the mosh pit as hard as I could. It felt sooooo good. I can't stand dick heads like that. I mean if you want to push people into the mosh pit that's one thing, but not if you stand on the sideline the whole time and don't even go in yourself.

Norma Jean were pretty good live, and so was Rufio. Professional bands don't really have the same energy as local bands though. Fancy lights, pyrotechnics, and outstanding sound equipment do not compensate for passion.

The best concert that I ever went to was definitely Alexisonfire in 2003. I talked about it back on the first page of the thread. I did make a mistake about how old I was though, I was 18 at the time. It was around one of the most depressing times of my life, and they just perfectly captured how I felt. I can't believe how much energy they had live. I've never seen anyone perform like that since.

AboveTheClouds

01-12-16, 04:32 AM

Hahahahaha good **** dude, show the dumb f*ck that if you wanna stand near the pit and be a big bitch you get your just desserts. One time I had a smaller dude (I'm like 6'3 270lbs and he was maybe 5'8 150lbs?) and he just clocks me in the back of the head during the circle pit, because I sent him flying earlier. So I stop on a dime, wheel around and see this little fu*ker trying to come at me, so I reached down and pulled his shirt over his head hockey style and threw a couple to his head before I threw him in a head lock then security arrived and split us up. I was the one who got kicked out because I was bigger and had actually hurt the guy, but he was the salty prick that decided to try and sucker punch me.

One time my buddy Dan and his girlfriend Cass(she was a legit metal chick) and I were at this show with some friends and these idiots showed up trying to crash the show by throwing down in the pit, and the one dude cracked Cass so hard that she started crying. Well next thing I know I see Dan walk across the pit and punch this dudes lights out right there, his buddy tried to get into it with Dan, and I saw this as a perfect opportunity to bodycheck this dude into Dan, who pushes him back into me, then everyone we were with basically started pinballing his guy while he buddy was out cold, after he was sufficiently beaten up, he got his buddy and left without hassle.

My favourite was during Watain like 7 years back, my buddy Mike who was bigger than I had come into town to attend the show and hang out with me and Dan and crew. So we're going mad for Watain and all the sudden I feel this tree trunk strike me in the face, didn't think much of it because I realized it was Mike's shoulder and no harm no foul. Well after a song or two Dan's girlfriend came tugging at me asking if I was ok etc. Apparently it had cracked my nose open and I was pouring blood, I was covered in it, all in my hair(I have long blonde hair) and on my face and shirt.. So I decided to try and find a bathroom(This show was held in the University), and the only place around was a bathroom converted to a muslim foot bath, but I didn't know what it was until I was bleeding into the basin and trying to clean up with the tap. Two gentlemen walked in, indeed to use this facility for it's intended purpose only to find a dirty heathen like myself desecrating it. Sigh. Dan came in a few minutes later laughing his ass off at the faces the guys pulled while leaving in quite a hurry he said.

Zotis

01-12-16, 05:05 AM

Oh man, I can't believe someone would hurt a woman like that. I'm glad they got what they deserved. Pretty interesting stories. Makes me want to go to a show with you sometime. That Goatfaced Killa singer had blood dripping down his face during the show too because he cracked a coke can over his forehead and didn't realise it cut him. He just thought the blood was sweat. So, just out of curiosity, do you still go to shows? What's the Black Metal scene like? The Post-Hardcore scene was full of a lot of wimpy kids back when I was in my late teens, early twenties. There were some tough guys, but mostly wimps. The underground Hardcore scene was considerably tougher though. Those guys were reckless, but I didn't get to go to many of those.

I used to avoid listening to Pornogrind, Goregrind, and Deathgrind because it was too heavy and I didn't really want to acquire a taste for it. But I've reached the point in my life where I really don't care. I see it as pretty abstract, and I just look for interesting talented music no matter how heavy it is. I found this band called Aborted Hitler Cock yesterday that had interesting vocals. What a ridiculous name for a band though, lol. The one thing I still haven't really touched is that incredibly raw Black Metal with so much static that you can barely hear the music. It's a bit creepy and makes me think of something a murdering rapist would listen to while making a snuff film.

There is a lot of really good Christian Hardcore too. I don't know if you've ever looked into the stuff, but you're probably familiar with Zao. The thing about "Christian" music is that a lot of it, if not most, is "Christian" in name alone but has basically secular lyrics. Zao's first album is really awesome though, and the same for Underoath's first two albums. I already posted Underoath's stuff, but check out Zao:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtQOf6yy7O0

Swan

01-12-16, 05:23 AM

Zotis

01-12-16, 05:56 AM

Well, it's kind of like how you loved Korn, but then after being introduced to certain other types of music Korn started to loose it's edge. It was no longer all that impressive in comparison. For me initially Phantom Limb was amazing, but after five or six years I kind of feel like it doesn't quite have the same edge anymore. But Painter of Dead Girls does still have that edge. I don't know about the guitar technique. Maybe there's some really good guitar technique in Phantom Limb, but I think what I love about Painter of Dead Girls and Prowler in the Yard is that they are somehow fiercer. The two things that I immediately notice are that they are rawer and the vocals are crisper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of_lPipIsj4

It's kind of like how the more movies I watch the more great movies get bumped off my top 100, and the more good movies just don't even make the cut anymore and aren't even impressive.

Don't get me wrong, I still like Phantom Limb, but I don't really love it anymore.

Swan

01-12-16, 06:01 AM

How dare you remind me of that Korn debacle! :p

Anyway, yeah, I think I prefer Prowler and Terrifyer to Phantom, but I like all their work honestly. I haven't listened to Painter much yet, will have to soon.

I think Book Burner might be their worst, even though I still enjoy it.

Swan

01-12-16, 06:03 AM

I mean, to my naive eyes Prowler in the Yard is like... the magnum opus of all grindcore. I agree that it is much rawer and fiercer than some of their later work, and that is something I appreciate about it.

Zotis

01-12-16, 06:11 AM

There are so many bands that I like the earlier stuff of, but not so much their newer stuff, or at least their older stuff is better.

One of the reasons why I love Screamo so much is because it's probably the most consistent genre I've ever encountered. I have yet to hear a single Screamo band that I don't like. There is one band, I Would Set Myself on Fire for You, who's first album is a staple that everyone praises, but who's second album is completely weird. For their second album they made every song a different genre. You might appreciate it, but I didn't really like it. It's clearly talented music, it just didn't appeal to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHiVCl8Fo4E

AboveTheClouds

01-12-16, 01:06 PM

Not nearly as versed in extreme music as you guys, but will say Pig Destroyer is one of my faves. Zotis I'm sure you recall my recent venture into metal late last year. My then guitar teacher told me to listen to Phantom Limb. I did, and immediately fell in love with the band.

I think Hayes is a lyrical genius, and the added intellect he brings to the music with his lyrics - no, it's straight up poetry - really elevates them for me. He has a way with words and phrasing, he manages to be abstract and not "in your face" with obvious gore lyrics in the way a lot of lesser grindcore acts are, and to me that just makes his lyrics all the more disturbing and dark.

Been lonesome two years since she disappeared.
I'm at the park where she was last seen.
A vast green clearing wrapped up in maple trees,
spilling the morning rain from their leaves.
I used to walk here with a girl,
seventeen at the time,
mistress of seventeen smiles sublime.
With flaming locks of red in autumn
and burning locks of orange in the summertime,
we were solemn and awkward that last night together.
She laid by my side staring into starless skies,
black as fallen angel feathers.
I stared into the forest,
pretending not to see the hangmen she was hiding.
In her eyes of serpent green she said there was another.
I refused to believe her.
I'd thought we'd kiss till our tongues tied together.
All my loving memories became scenes of frenzied slaughter.
My hands became cruel talons as they moved to destroy her neck.
Broke like a toy in a careless child's grip,
my tears rained down into dead eyes and splashed upon her lifeless lips.
I put her in the ground like a flower.
Here I am standing in that same spot today,
where my angel's empty shell last laid.
And as my tears began to well up once more
I see a path into the tree line that I'd never seen before.
I follow it down into a ravine,
find a hole in the earth framed in the roots of a birch tree.
Subtle echoes of her voice speaking words I've never heard
but the way she hissed her S’s it just had to be her.
I smell honeysuckle then opium,
two of her signature scents.
I pull aside all the thistles and vines,
and mesmerized I make my descent.
As I crawl further inside the light slowly dies
and the dirt begins to feel like her skin.
I tremble as I drag my fingers down the walls,
caressing her sweet flesh again.
I'm sliding down trying so hard not to fall,
slipping on the blood that's seeping from the walls.
Then suddenly I'm surrounded by a thousand of her eyes,
bathing the tunnel in a strange green light.
The eyes show me pictures like ghostly television screens
all her thrashing final struggles and her ravaged corpse serene.
The tunnel is closing behind me,
pressing me further and further down.
I'm being swallowed by her earth and consumed by her ground.
The end is moving into sight.
I gasp and I scream as I see her lovely mouth five times the size of me,
her lips curl into a grin around her crooked gnashing teeth.
I'm pulverized and devoured in the jaws of a girl seventeen.

Pig Destroyer - Natasha

Yeah dude, those words don't read like lyrics they read like poetry. I can 110% agree with you on that.

AboveTheClouds

01-12-16, 01:24 PM

Zotis, I haven't gone to a show in 5 or 6 years, the line of work I was in kind of hindered me from being as active as I wanted, and that being said I have a very big problem with poseurs as well, which the scene was becoming full of. Me and a few friends were the first guys in town to really have the Black Metal look and mentality, and with the exception of a few guys older than us(these guys were brutal dude, fun as hell to hang out with), we were basically it for the BM scene.

Most of the city was full of Death Metal and Power Metal kids. Then as we started making friends with more people they started switching over to Bm, next thing you know half the scene are running around trying to be Black Metal, but they lacked the mentality. You can wear all black, bullets, vests, boots, have long hair, wear inverted crosses/Sigil of Baphomet etc but if you don't have the mentality to go along with it I would ridicule the hell out of you and basically curse you out as a lying PoS.

Black Metal is war against religion, humanity and basically life itself "Anti Human, Anti Life", and we had people that treated it like a damned fashion show, not to mention that when my friends started dating, their girlfriends would become "metal" as well, so not only did I have to put up with people I thought were total wads and fakers, but now I had to play nice with stupid ass girls who didn't care about music and only wanted to look hard and be associated as such because of their boyfriends.

In my entire life I have met 3 women who did the work themselves and actually deserved the title and respect bestowed upon them. Dudes would seriously chase "metal" chicks all day and it was a huge joke for me, because I refused to date any of those broads. In fact my one GF was about as non-metal as you can be, and they all hated her and thought she was lame and told me I needed a "metal" girl, but like I said I simply refused on grounds that the ideology meant more to me than some dumb chick who'd likely listen to my BM albums and tell me how she loves them sooo0o0o0o0o0o much without understanding context and meaning behind any of it.

So once this all started happening I couldn't deal with it (especially at shows when girls would hang off us and stuff and try to get in with us, I basically went Lone Wolf again, removed myself from the scene and haven't spoken to many of them in years. I realize I come across as harsh, but like I said before this was the first genre I really fell in love with and to see people who basically took it as serious as a joke try and flaunt their "abundance" of knowledge or their new back patch or whatever. In short it became about the fashion and the women instead of about music and ideology, and that is where any true fan will draw a line in the brimstone.

Also, FYI Punk/Hardcore pits are the best, metal ones are lame shoving and bumping. Circle pits are the ****.

https://45.media.tumblr.com/538004194f137024e01c076b9a3d93e3/tumblr_n0axc5Km7i1rcs3e5o1_500.gif

Zotis

01-12-16, 09:40 PM

I don't think that's harsh. For me personally all I care about is the music. I just want to see bands live. I don't care about ideologies. Posers are lame but hey, if their money supports bands that I like, then I say thank you to them. I probably look out of place at shows. I don't dress like I'm hardcore or anything, and I do what I want when I get into the music or when I jump into the mosh pit. I think it's lame how people just imitate everyone around them, but I try not to judge them either.

I've been thinking about going to shows again for a while now. I often used to go to shows alone. All this reminiscing makes me really want to go see some bands. I don't really want to do anything reckless anymore. I just want to have a few beers and enjoy the music.

Omnizoa

01-12-16, 10:45 PM

I don't care for what "Screamo"/"Death Metal" I've heard, mainly because I feel what might otherwise be an awesome song is ruined by someone with laryngitis yelling into the microphone.

I think Progenies of the Great Apocalypse by Dimmu Borgir is an awesome song... when the lead isn't ruining it.

I also think Lake Bodom by Children of Bodom is an awesome song... when the lead isn't ruining it. I can't find an instrumental of that one though.

The closest I get to songs with vocals like that is stuff like The Poison by Bullet For My Valentine, Voices by Crown The Empire, and A Nightmare to Remember by Dream Theater (although out of a whole 16 minute song only the last third of it really turns on the growl).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Wd7uXIuMQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyEO8wgsQBM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jas_RyIFl64

AboveTheClouds

01-12-16, 11:52 PM

I realized I enjoy being a lone wolf better than anything, because then I don't have to worry about other people and their problems. It's always been strange for me, because I always had friends but we never really shared the same interests. Once the internet was made available to me I started forging friendships with people who shared the same interests as me because I could find communities dedicated to the weird/different **** I liked, and I was immersed into worlds of music, movies, literature, gore, occultism and other things that poked my teenage brain( I think I was 14) which helped me grow into who I am today, I started posting here(11+ years ago with a 9 year hiatus lol) when my favorite movie was Full Metal Jacket, and I was into a lot of punk (UK82, '77) and doom/drone/noise. A few of those albums I posted in Swans Vinyl thread I have I've had since I started here/shortly after.

It wasn't until I started mid High School that I really started to listen to a lot of Black Metal, I liked and listened to Burzum, Emperor, Mayhem, Immortal, Darkthrone, Bathory etc all the basics, but after I found a particular metal forum on the old muchmusic(Canadian MTV) LOUD/PunkShow board, there were some good dudes who helped a young'un out with a lot of solid recs, and so I started my journey through the cold and desolate landscape of Black Metal. After a while one of the guys from the board created a site called Ubermetal which was an e-zine/forums kind of site and he recruited me to the staff when I believe I was 16 and I would send him reviews of metal/punk albums and rants about things that bothered me about my local and international scene(this site/ezine was based in ontario, the staff lived all over Canada). Then I ended up joining another site called Nexopia when Ubermetal started to fizzle out.

Nexopia had user created forums and stuff, so I joined their largest metal forum, MetaltotheMasses and within a week my extensive knowledge had landed me a spot on the moderator team, soon I became real life friends with the others and we'd have awesome discussions with people all across a couple provinces, and soon our group grew and bands were formed and next thing you know the scene really started to flourish with all this new blood, and having this forum as our meeting/planning/discussion place worked awesome for us. I actually met some of the coolest people I've ever met through meeting them online first. We had friends in other cities we'd see every month or so because we'd all be going back and forth between cities for shows and parties and stuff. Through this forum we met local promoters who in turn would add our bands to the shows and have us open for more established acts. We even got to choose who they would try and bring in for shows, and would try and raise funds to see some of our favorite bands (I've seen some really, really awesome ****ing bands).

But then the situation deteriorated to the state I described previously and all ended up in sour feelings and what I felt were forced friendships. And between the drugs/alcohol/women it really occurred to me that I didn't need to dress the part and put up with people I didn't care about to be Black Metal and listen too it, for instance right now I'm rocking a flat brim Celtics hat, Nike Basketball Shorts and a Stompdown Killaz Hoodie(Graffiti/Hip-Hop Crew) Because seriously dude

Nike Basketball shorts are comfier than Combat fatigues/black jeans
Baggy Hoodies are comfier than a 15 pound vest and bullets
Air Jordans are comfier than Canadian standard issue combat boots(Steel toe and shank in the foot)

Aesthetics don't mean much to me anymore, I needn't use a rough exterior to frighten and stir the pot. All one needs to do is attempt to engage me in conversation to find out whether I am agreeable to them or not, I try to be on that "Don't mess with me, I won't mess with you, lets just chill" stuff, but evidently it doesn't always work out to intended effect.

/Ramble

AboveTheClouds

01-12-16, 11:53 PM

I don't care for what "Screamo"/"Death Metal" I've heard, mainly because I feel what might otherwise be an awesome song is ruined by someone with laryngitis yelling into the microphone.

I think Progenies of the Great Apocalypse by Dimmu Borgir is an awesome song... when the lead isn't ruining it.

I also think Lake Bodom by Children of Bodom is an awesome song... when the lead isn't ruining it. I can't find an instrumental of that one though.

The closest I get to songs with vocals like that is stuff like The Poison by Bullet For My Valentine, Voices by Crown The Empire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Wd7uXIuMQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyEO8wgsQBM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jas_RyIFl64

Might not be the thread for you bud, just sayin'.

Omnizoa

01-13-16, 12:01 AM

Might not be the thread for you bud, just sayin'.
Not metal enough?

Zotis

01-13-16, 01:04 AM

I appreciate the sentiment of what you've shared with me AboveTheClouds. Thanks for that. Those experiences obviously taught you a lot.

You can wear all black, bullets, vests, boots, have long hair, wear inverted crosses/Sigil of Baphomet etc but if you don't have the mentality to go along with it I would ridicule the hell out of you and basically curse you out as a lying PoS.

Even when I was younger and I went to Post-Hardcore shows I never tried to be a part of the scene. Only a few of my friends listened to the same kind of music, but I mostly assosiated with people based on reasons other than music. And when I was in my mid-twenties and got more into music, I didn't have a single friend I could actually talk to in much depth about music. Even though all this reminiscing makes me want to go to some shows, I have no intention of getting into any particular music scene or identifying myself with any particular genre. I certainly wouldn't start trying to act Black Metal. I never really cared about that kind of thing when I was younger, and I certainly don't now. I have a feeling if I went to a Black Metal show a lot of people would look at me like I don't belong and wonder what I'm doing there. But I really wouldn't care. Anyway, I'm not saying, "Come to a show with me." I'm just saying this talk makes me feel that way.

AboveTheClouds

01-13-16, 01:24 AM

Not metal enough?

Dimmu, CoB and Dream Theater are metal, but pretty entry level stuff. The other stuff you mentioned is not metal, I will resurrect an old term here, these bands are "Mallcore". In my day you'd see all the kids who fancied themselves "hardcore" and "misunderstood" listening to this stuff, wearing their terrible band shirts, heavy makeup and horribad teased hair hanging out in the cafeteria at school or the mall food court. Aside from being super cookie-cutter in fashion sense and musical style, their just plain boring.

As you might have realized by now this thread has been mostly about extreme metal/punk/hardcore, not that type of stuff. Another reason I mentioned was because of your comments on the vocals, well most of the bands we've actually discussed would not be to your liking, but feel free to check some of them out and see if you like any of it, and if you want any recommendations, ask away this is the best thread for it.:)

Zotis, I'm gonna partially hi-hack this thread at times to post vids and links to awesome stuff our small community of extreme music enthusiasts would appreciate.

AboveTheClouds

01-13-16, 01:31 AM

I appreciate the sentiment of what you've shared with me AboveTheClouds. Thanks for that. Those experiences obviously taught you a lot.

Even when I was younger and I went to Post-Hardcore shows I never tried to be a part of the scene. Only a few of my friends listened to the same kind of music, but I mostly assosiated with people based on reasons other than music. And when I was in my mid-twenties and got more into music, I didn't have a single friend I could actually talk to in much depth about music. Even though all this reminiscing makes me want to go to some shows, I have no intention of getting into any particular music scene or identifying myself with any particular genre. I certainly wouldn't start trying to act Black Metal. I never really cared about that kind of thing when I was younger, and I certainly don't now. I have a feeling if I went to a Black Metal show a lot of people would look at me like I don't belong and wonder what I'm doing there. But I really wouldn't care. Anyway, I'm not saying, "Come to a show with me." I'm just saying this talk makes me feel that way.

Oh come on Zotis, we could have a few brews and mash some dumb bastard into the guard rail, it'd be lovely!

I refrain from labelling myself anymore, that's part of why I don't dress that way anymore. My listening habits these days are basically Black/Doom Metal, Grind/Porno/Gore, Crust/D-Beat/PV, Hip Hop, R&B(Gladys Knight all the way to Boys II Men) Hardcore Techno(Hixxy, Whizzkid, Sharkey) and a whack of celtic folk as well. It's all good man, this thread has made me mad nostalgic.

AboveTheClouds

01-13-16, 01:48 AM

One of my favourite bands of all time is Katatonia, they hail from Sweden and play some pretty depressing stuff. Their first few releases were in the genre of Death Doom (Death metal vocals with Doom Metal musical/lyrical sensibilities) At one point even having the vocalist of fellow Swedish Death Metal(At that point) band Opeth Mikael Akerfeldt take over vocal duties for their album Brave Murder Day. Afterwards their style started to drift towards a more melodic sound, incorporating a more finely tuned recording technique and their vocalist Jonas Renske to return on clean vocals. I'll post a few videos of different sounds the band had.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXsiOx0dg38
This is their more melodic stuff with Jonas Renske clean vocals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5tW9fekzJo
Mikael Akerfeldt from Opeth did vocals on this track/album called Brave Murder Day and the EP Sounds of Decay,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDUUgbZguWE
Original sound from the first EP and Full Length featuring the real vocalist Jonas Renske

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O-mkSGbbRQ
And this is kind of like a rarer more gothy inspired track only available on a split with Primordial until their first best of came out. This track is called Scarlet Heavens and has Jonas Renske on vocals.

Anything they released after Viva Emptiness is a little meh for me, but some of you guys might like it.

Zotis

01-13-16, 02:16 AM

Oh come on Zotis, we could have a few brews and mash some dumb bastard into the guard rail, it'd be lovely!

I refrain from labelling myself anymore, that's part of why I don't dress that way anymore. My listening habits these days are basically Black/Doom Metal, Grind/Porno/Gore, Crust/D-Beat/PV, Hip Hop, R&B(Gladys Knight all the way to Boys II Men) Hardcore Techno(Hixxy, Whizzkid, Sharkey) and a whack of celtic folk as well. It's all good man, this thread has made me mad nostalgic.

That does sound like fun. Well if you actually do want to go to a show with me sometime and have a few beers, I certainly won't say no. Someone would have to really tick me off for me to get violent though. I wouldn't just hurt someone for fun because they looked like a poser. I'm not the kind of person who likes to get into fights or cause mayhem. I certainly wouldn't mess with a big guy, but if someone was being a douche and really ticked me off, I just might do something rash, lol. I don't even know how I feel about mosh pits anymore. 5-6 years ago I was at the point where I would dance in my own style; sometimes in the mosh pit, or sometimes not. I did enjoy making people who avoided the mosh pit feel uncomfortable by bumping into them when I was dancing. And I had no problem pushing through the crowd. It just depends on how much I get into the music though really, and how I feel at the time. I noticed at least someone stare at me every time I danced because most of them would either just head bang or do this kind of thrash about punching the air thing you commonly see people do (at Hardcore shows anyway). You know how it is, people just immitate everyone around them, and anyone doing something different is "weird." But I don't care what anyone else thinks. In fact I kind of like it when other people feel uncomfortable around me, like those kids who's parents drop them off and they just stand in the crowd and get offended if someone pushes them. I really want to go to some shows now and see how I feel. I depserately want to go to a Screamo show, and that one Powerviolence/Grindcore band I went to makes me want to check out some more of those. There's a bunch of genres I'd like to experience live.

I went to an Iron Maiden concert several years ago because a friend of mine really wanted to go. I don't like Iron Maiden, but I was willing to go for my friend's sake. Dream Theater was there too, they were a bit boring, but okay I guess. Anyway, man there were so many show noobs at that concert. We pushed our way through the massive crowd to get closer where the crowd would be more interesting, and at one point a huge jock-type grabbed my backpack and dragged me 3 people back. He said, "You're not getting in front of us pal." So we just went around him, and a good 30-40 meters in front of him. The crowd was massive.

Oh, I just remembered another nostalgic moment. It was at an Underoath/Norma Jean concert in a small bar. I was hanging out with these two chicks I had just met and we were right at the front where everyone was crammed like a massive sandwhich. This short chick in all black with black hair was pretty aggressively trying to force her way in front of me and force me back. Well, I'd been at the front the entire time, so I wasn't taking any of that from a 5'4" teenager. So I lifted my foot up and wedged it in front of her, and when the crowd surged towards her I pushed back so that I had some leway. Then when the crowd surged the othe way that leway made a gap for me to slip in front of her and I just hoisted her completely behind me. She was really pissed and dug her elbow into my back a couple times, but there was nothing she could do at that point. The crowd was too thick for her to get back. Normally I wouldn't do that kind of thing, especially to a girl. But it was just the fact that she was so agressive and nasty, and trying to push me back when I was there before her. I wasn't going to let her get away with it just because she was a chick.

Good times. :p

Zotis

01-13-16, 02:58 AM

I don't listen to music as much as I used to either. Other things take up more of my time.

Of the four tracks you posted I liked Brave, and Without God more than the other two.

I'm pretty rusty these days, but here is what I've done in the past. I'm not very good, and it's just guitar and vocals that I did by myself. So don't expect anything too spectacular. There's four songs on my soundcloud, and one on my youtube.

https://soundcloud.com/psylis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4ssJkIDMuU

You were in bands right, AboveTheClouds? I'd love to hear your music.

AboveTheClouds

01-13-16, 03:49 AM

Dude I hate girls like that so much, you were right to do what you did, as soon as she started digging her elbows into me, I probably would have pushed backwards and sent her reeling. Have some damned respect, just because you're not going any farther doesn't mean others can't try.

If it was a band we really wanted to see, we'd camp out all day to be first in line, so we could get the front security fence for the show, it'd be like our whole crew of friends in the front row, and everyone else behind us trying to push in and sometimes we'd just start throwing donkey kicks at them and the occasional elbow. If you want to get anywhere in a pit you gotta be strong or crafty

The craziest thing I have ever dealt with was AFI at Warped Tour like 8 or 9 years ago. The crowd was sooooooooo big because it was outdoors, but the area for the standing audience wasn't very big, so this bitch was crammed to max capacity, and I told my friends to grab my belt and hold on, so we had a chain of like 5 people including me, and I am just strong arming our way to the front, we got like 90% of the way in and the crowd was so dense you couldn't move, everyone was packed together it was stupid, then all the sudden someone fell and then it dominoed and next thing you know the whole crowd is leaning to the one side and everyones falling and tipping and it's just super rough. People started trying to hold others up and as a whole we dealt with it. Then AFI came on stage and there was a ton of crowd surfing and mini pits, I was in one with 7 or 8 other people that was maybe like 5 feet in circumference. I kept seeing people get booted in the head by crowdsurfers and go down and people being trampled, it was really rough.

And one time at an Against Me! show(Back when their first album came out and they were like anarcho/folk punk) and my buddy was crowd surfing and someone somehow took his bullet belt off him while he was up there, long story short he was super pissed off so as soon as the show ended we went outside and waited by the door for whoever took this damn thing. See his belt was like mine, but he had a few silvers in it and a few black spray painted ones so it was easy to spot. Anyway, after like 90% of the people left we saw this mousy looking fu*ker come out looking sketchy as hell well low and behold around this guys waist is my buddies bullet belt, and we figured he had waited until now to come out hoping whoever he jacked had left. Well we hadn't, and my buddy books to this guy arm cocked to just cream him, I'm in hot pursuit with out other friend beside me. Buddy 1 gets to the guy and starts yelling at him, me and buddy 2 roll up and over hear the mousy fu*ker giving Buddy 1 some serious lip, as soon as he realizes that there is no way he's getting out of this with the bullets, there are 3 of us and we are in a dark alley behind the venue. Mousy ****er proceeds to take them off hands them to Buddy 1 and starts apologizing profusely, Buddy 2 tells him he has 3 seconds to make like a tree and get the fu*k out of here and I gave him a shove to start and he was off into the night. Rat bastard.

Show stories are awesome.

Zotis

01-13-16, 03:58 AM

Haha, good stuff. Stealing someone's belt... man that's low...

Yeah, that is one of the things that's so much fun about going to shows. You get some crazy awesome stories.

AboveTheClouds

01-13-16, 04:08 AM

You were in bands right, AboveTheClouds? I'd love to hear your music.

I had some recordings of a drone project in the vein of Sunn O))) during Black 1, I had vocals tracks but never tried to mix them with the music. Anything I did involving music was basically bands that would jam a few times maybe play a local or party and then fizzle out due to work and schedule conflicts. Me and my old best friend had a 2 man project called Werewolf Legion and we recorded 2(I believe?) tracks with his laptop and computer mic and made a myspace and I think he uploaded them but they were like really really primal because we didn't have bass and my drum kit consisted of a snare, bass, one tom, hi-hats and a crash/ride cymbal and my vocals are basically screamed shrieks directed towards the mic, 3 feet away. I don't know if I still have the mp3's but I can check my old PC if I can ever dig it out of storage. I used to write a lot of lyrics and stuff too, but I don't think I have any of those anymore. Some of my friends took it very seriously and now actually have touring bands and stuff, I took it as a hobby because I was just ok at the music, but I loved doing vokills, I still sometimes sing random songs like I would Black metal or Death Metal. In fact earlier today I was rapping along to Nas in death metal grunts lol. it's funny that it's still something that permeates my life regardless.

Zotis

01-13-16, 04:34 AM

Well, do let me know if you dig them up.

I use a really cheap $15 mic and just put it right up to the amp. It gives me that nice raw sound. It also kind of adds a bit of distortion to my screaming. I always made a point of not screaming too much though. After all these years I still have a really crisp scream.

I have over 80 tracks on a CD that I have recorded. Most of them are just improvised jams that didn't turn out particularly well, but some of them are really interesting. I'll have to upload the rest of the decent ones. I jammed a lot with a buddy of mine who was a DJ and was mostly into Drum and Bass, but he appreciated Hardcore and Metal too.

Music has kind of taken a back seat on my list of hobbies. I play Super Smash Bros. Melee competitively, and that is very time consuming because a tournament basically takes up an entire day, plus practicing every day. I was never as disciplined with any of my hobbies as I've managed to be with that, so we'll see. Hopefully it goes somewhere, but it certainly limits how much time I can put into other interests. Still, it's amazing how productive a person can be if you put time wasting distractions aside.

Omnizoa

01-13-16, 07:30 AM

>_>

<_<

*goes back to playing Devil May Cry*

False Writer

01-13-16, 12:12 PM

Mr Minio

01-13-16, 12:35 PM

Grindcore, Porngrind, Goregrind

These are music (sub)genres.

AboveTheClouds

01-13-16, 12:38 PM

Grindcore
Porngrind
Goregrind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5aeOCxUAk8
F*ck... I'm Dead (GRINDCORE)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31KL7i-apmQ
Regurgitate (GOREGRIND)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z07_oSkD9dk
Meatshits (PORNGRIND)

AboveTheClouds

01-13-16, 12:59 PM

And now because I feel like it. Here's Om, Khanate and Moss. All around the genres of sludge/drone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzA4Bk1ak6U
Moss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTobovkjkvg
Om

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agWDggjI0Pw
Khanate

Zotis

01-13-16, 01:10 PM

I'm surprised you don't know about this stuff False Writer.

You know I never thought I'd reach the point where I didn't find Pornogrind unbearable to listen to, but it actually doesn't phase me anymore. I'm still confused about how to identify the differences between Pornogrind, Goregrind, and Deathgrind. Well, whatever they are, Aborted Hitler Cock are kinda interesting.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=YH3W-Wt0Sg8

The article by sonic therapy is hilarious: http://www.metalunderground.com/bands/details.cfm?bandid=14445&tab=news

False Writer

01-13-16, 03:52 PM

Grindcore, Porngrind, Goregrind

These are music (sub)genres.

I know about grindcore and goregrind, but "porngrind" is something I'm not familiar with.

Grindcore
Porngrind
Goregrind

F*ck... I'm Dead (GRINDCORE)

Regurgitate (GOREGRIND)

Meatshits (PORNGRIND)

I do know about F*ck... I'm Dead and Regurgitate. Had a couple songs from them a while ago. Never heard of Meatshits though.

I'm surprised you don't know about this stuff False Writer.

You know I never thought I'd reach the point where I didn't find Pornogrind unbearable to listen to, but it actually doesn't phase me anymore. I'm still confused about how to identify the differences between Pornogrind, Goregrind, and Deathgrind. Well, whatever they are, Aborted Hitler Cock are kinda interesting.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=YH3W-Wt0Sg8

The article by sonic therapy is hilarious: http://www.metalunderground.com/bands/details.cfm?bandid=14445&tab=news

Like I said I know about grindcore, deathgrind, goregrind etc. Can't say I'm highly seasoned in it though. Bands that I like from those genres are Disfiguring the Goddess and Devourment.

Zotis

01-13-16, 05:47 PM

Well Deathgrind is like the next step up from Brutal Death Metal the way I understand it. It's some muddy water though. But those three genres blurr together for me.

I was listening to a bit of Lord Gore yesterday, and some random other suggestions on youtube. There's some pretty sadistic album art/lyrical content. I never could stomach the stuff before. But I could see myself getting into it if I found the right bands. Eventually I provably will. Some of it is quite humorous though. Like Aborted Hitler Cock. Apparently they were trying to come up with the worst band name ever.

For regular Grindcore I'd recommend Insect Warfare, Nasum, Napalm Death, and Hatred Surge.

I love this split:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=elnJEc7gq-Y

And this is my favorite Napalm Death album:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ljhlmi1flVE

AboveTheClouds

01-13-16, 07:42 PM

+1 Zotis because I prefer that Napalm Death album too.

False Writer

01-14-16, 01:29 PM

I was listening to a bit of Lord Gore yesterday, and some random other suggestions on youtube. There's some pretty sadistic album art/lyrical content. I never could stomach the stuff before. But I could see myself getting into it if I found the right bands. Eventually I provably will. Some of it is quite humorous though. Like Aborted Hitler Cock. Apparently they were trying to come up with the worst band name ever.

There was a band I used to listen to call Maggot Stuffed C*nt. I always thought that name was up there in regards to that. :p

They were actually pretty good though music-wise, problem is they only made like 4 songs ever...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0e-Dh8W9K0

Zotis

01-14-16, 02:39 PM

Yeah, FW, that's the spirit. :p

Zotis

01-18-16, 01:03 AM

So, I've been getting more interested in Black Metal lately.

I'm currently listening to Beherit's Messe Des Morts from 1993.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddc1-ie7C04

I want to learn more about the history of Black Metal too. I read the wikipedia articles for Black Metal, and for Beherit. On Beherit's article they mentioned something about rules.

"When we started the band about 4 years ago we knew this and so that's okay. Now there are more people against us ‘cause of these new rules and all these stupid rumours spread by our Norwegian enemies... but I don’t care so much. But that’s a bit sad that the black metal underground scene is totally split." -Marko Laiho

I'm really curious about this. I didn't know they had "rules."

Zotis

01-27-16, 02:17 AM

Listening to music for the Extreme Music Tournament and trying to figure out what I want to nominate next. I was going through some female fronted Hardcore, and some Emo, and one of the recommendations on the side was this song... It's an Indie/Emo band that I really like and have listened to a little before. I don't like all of their material, but just a few songs in particular that have a woman doing the vocals. She only did some of the songs on the album, not the whole album, and she's been in a few bands along the same vein. This is my favorite song of theirs/hers:

The Lapse - H'a Chi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsrUC2lQTbM

Zotis

03-09-16, 08:33 AM

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/58/Bad_Brains_debut.jpg

Bad Brains were more progressive than most, if not all other Hardcore of their time (79-86?). Their '81 s/t is incredibly progressive. Death may have been the most progressive Punk band before Bad Brains, but Bad Brains were the epitomy of first wave Hardcore. Even Black Flag would bow before them.

Both the vocals and the instrumentals were way ahead of the curve. The vocals are more melodic than any other Hardcore of their time, and more intense than anything else had ever been. The instrumentals were so skillful that most if not every other band was intimidated to open for them at a show. In an interview a member of another early Hardcore band said they were so nervous playing in front of Bad Brains that their hands were trembling and they couldn't play well. When they blamed the equipment one of the Bad Brains members (I think the lead singer) picked up their guitar and played flawlesly demonstrating it wasn't the equipment's fault.

Most first wave Hardcore had the mentality of playing three notes as fast as they could and yelling into the mic. They were passionate, but sloppy. Bad Brains however, had a technical mastery that put their peers to shame.

I really like the Reggae thrown in. I prefer Hardcore, but Reggae is a genre that does interest me. Their style of Reggae is one of the more interesting Reggae styles I've heard because of it's unique Hardcore influence. Likewise their style of hardcore is uniquely influenced by Reggae.

In the documentary American Hardcore one of Bad Brains' other members said that the lead singer couldn't make up his mind whether to be Hardcore or Reggae. Well, I'm glad, because their music is so unique as a result. I like that the record is mostly Hardcore with some Reggae. That balance suits my taste very well.

I got the album from HMV a few days ago. I had been looking for it for a while. They are my favorite first wave Hardcore band. I would attribute them as the single most influential Hardcore band of all time, even though many other bands were more popular. It's because of when they did what they did that Hardcore is what it is today.

Zotis

03-09-16, 09:27 AM

http://shop.season-of-mist.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/500x500/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/R/i/Ritual-Killer-Exterminance-44260-2.jpg

Ritual Killer are my kind of Hardcore influenced Black Metal. They're fast, aggressive, raw, sloppy, and intense. They have a nice blend of high and low pitched screaming, with plenty of diversity in the vocal techniques, leaning more towards high than low. Unfortunately the drums are a bit too quiet. I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to bass. So, I couldn't really even detect the bass in this. Some of the powet chord riffing is a bit generic and repetative.

Overall I thoroughly enjoyed it. Although it doesn't blow my mind, there is a decent amount of melody and fierceness to excite me.

Gatsby

03-09-16, 09:44 AM

I like Bad Brains, even though some of their songs are a bit too heavy for me. Really appreciate the reggae influence. It gives a groove no other hardcore band has.

Zotis

03-09-16, 09:56 AM

Thanks for popping in Gatsby. I'm glad you appreciate Bad Brains.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a3/Black_Flag_-_Everything_Went_Black_cover.jpg

Black Flag - Everything Went Black

I love the angst filled half-yelling vocals. The ideal of political first-wave Hardcore, they criticise things like the "slave for the weekend" mentality. Their music took a while to grow on me, but now that it has this early Black Flag material is among my favorite of Hardcore's first wave. I payed $17 for this 2 record package which has 24 tracks recorded from '78-'81. In addition to the 24 tracks, the fourth side is like some crazy bonus material that's pretty interesting.

Zotis

04-16-16, 04:40 PM

I bought three records today.

http://blog-imgs-37-origin.fc2.com/t/e/t/tetragramathon/201302110340237ed.jpg
Dropdead - 落とす死

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0254/9599/products/CWV_neon_COVER_1024x1024.jpg?v=1390589941
Combatwoundedveteran - This Is not an Erect, All-red Neon Body

http://cdn3.pitchfork.com/albums/19249/homepage_large.7e252f9a.jpg
Deafheaven - Sunbather

Dropdead are pretty old-school 90's Hardcore bordering on Powerviolence. It's an intense fast-paced album of heavy distortion and screaming. The vinyl itself is brown with a sort of marble rainbow pattern.

Combatwoundedveteran are even more intense and faster with crazy Noise/Grindcore/Screamo elements that make them a very unique band. I usually see them categorized as either Grindcore or Screamo, but I would lean towards Screamo. I love how they blend both genres though and incorporate a lot of Noise elements. A lot of music took influence from Screamo, like Post-Hardcore for example, but very few bands actually combine Screamo in such fullness with other genres. The vinyl is transparent neon pink.

Deafheaven are like a bastardisation of Black Metal. On reddit you aren't even allowed to talk about them in the Black Metal subreddit. They're very progressive with a lot of Hardcore elements. It's printed on two records, one is a soft creamy pink and the other is transparent neon yellow.

AboveTheClouds

04-17-16, 03:02 AM

Dropdead is awesome.

Deafheaven are what I have come to term hipster black metal, people talk about "Black Gaze" and "Post Black Metal" I think they're fancy names used to boost sales and give the music an air of faux rebelliousness. We've been through this before and you know my stance of BM, but I think Black Metal(reddit) "Black List" is pretty funny, but to be fair, people would spam the sub with crap, and they still kind of do. That sub is obsessed with depressive/suicidal and boring euro *****, which can make it tedious.

Zotis

04-17-16, 10:12 AM

Yeah, I mean just listening to Deafheaven, there is no way it's BM. It sounds more like Post-Rock than BM. But I am having a hard time placing it. It doesn't really feel like Metal. It feels like Post-Post-Hardcore or something...

Zotis

04-17-16, 10:15 AM

Dropdead are great. When I saw the record I almost couldn't believe it. I snatched it like a fat man snatching the last cup cake.

AboveTheClouds

04-17-16, 02:19 PM

Dropdead are great. When I saw the record I almost couldn't believe it. I snatched it like a fat man snatching the last cup cake.

I would have too, haven't they been broken up for a while?

Zotis

04-17-16, 06:11 PM

No idea, but they've been on splits as late as 2014 according to discogs.com.

Zotis

05-19-16, 05:34 PM

I just bought La Dispute - Somewhere at the Bottom of the River Between Vega and Altair.

https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a2352587376_16.jpg

This is a band that I haven't listened to very much, but that I often hear mentioned in Skramz (Screamo/Hardcore Emo) circles. I've heard them called Screamo and Emo. I guess if I had to say from what I have heard so far then I'd say they're Emo, but it's that kind of Hardcore Emo that blurs the line between the two genres. I've also seen them classified as Post-Hardcore, and I do see a lot of those elements. They get pretty screamy at times, but there's also a lot of half talking/half singing and a lot of coarse yelling as apposed to actual screaming. Their instrumentals range from melodic to fast and thrashy as is typical of Emo/Screamo, and also have some progressive riffs like what's common in Post-Hardcore. I really do like the coarse yelling and half singing vocals. The instrumentals and vocals go well together. I like the melodic and heavy aspects to the music style, and the song structure is interesting. The lyrics are very poetic too.

Zotis

05-31-16, 03:08 AM

In the early 90's coarse yelling in Hardcore had progressed to the glass shattering peak of the human voice. I wonder where Black Metal was vocally at this point because I know it embraces high pitched screaming that other Metal genres usually shun. Death Metal at the time certainly did shun this type of screaming, but it has since found it's way in to some extent. Screamo laid the vocal groundwork that Post-Hardcore would later take (and mostly bastardise). Since Screamo emerged out of Emo there wasn't always a lot of difference between the two. Mainly Screamo had more screaming than Emo and I think gradually Emo got softer while Screamo got heavier. Screamo and Emo intersect at a point where it can become very hard to tell which genre some bands should be considered. There's debate among veterans over some of these bands, but most of the debate comes from people who simply don't know enough to confirm their own opinions. At a certain point it does become pointless to label bands as necessarily one or the other, but that's also often used as a crutch for people who don't know how to identify the specific elements. After the commercialisation of Emo and Post-Hardcore a lot of passionless, talentless bands bastardised the music into soulless watered down versions which half the time have no idea what their own music is or what the music they're claiming to be is. When the internet was still young rumours were spreading like wildfire. Screamo was a term that a lot of people had heard of but were clueless towards. So when they heard the type of vocals that Screamo created seep into Post-Hardcore they started thinking, "Well this must be it." So you'd see these whiny clueless kids bashing their instruments and screaming into a microphone and being dressed up and instructed by corporate types and identified publicly in magazines and online by these corporations as "Screamo" or "Emo" or "Metal" or whatever they wanted to call it to catch people's attention and rake in the dough. Screamo wasn't targeted as early on as Emo because it wasn't accessible to enough people yet. Eventually it was though. At first there was mostly just Post-Hardcore bands being mislabelled as Screamo while the internet was still young and a lot of people had heard of Screamo but knew nothing about it. Shortly after that Metalcore started getting mislabelled as Screamo too as the second wave of Metalcore saw more commercial success. All the while Screamo was still progressing on it's own in the underground scene and adding influences from Post-Hardcore and Metalcore to it's pallet. I have listened to more Screamo bands than any other genre by far, and have spent more hours listening to Screamo than any other genre. It pains me to see the way that corporations have tried to exploit it, but it brings me great joy that the genre has not been invaded by retards the way that Post-Hardcore and Metalcore were. A lot of older fans of the genre who were in the scene back in the day reject the newer wave of Screamo that draws influence from Post-Hardcore and Metalcore. At the very least it's seen as a different wave of Screamo.

Zotis

05-31-16, 06:57 AM

Zotis' Screamo Band List
1905
Adonis Battlefield
Amanda Woodward
Andtheywillriot
Anomie
Antioch Arrow
Aussitiot Mort
Battle of Wolf 359
Belle Epoque
Circle Takes the Square
City of Caterpillar
Cobra Kai
Daitro
Envy
Eucalypt
Frail
Funeral Diner
Gameness
Gantz
Gauge Means Nothing
Guyver-One
Have Heart
Heaven in Her Arms
Her Breath on Glass
Hot Cross
I Create
I Have Dreams
I Would Set Myself on Fire for You
Iwrotehaikusaboutcannibalisminyouryearbook
Jeromes Dream
Joshua Fit for Battle
June Paik
Khayembii Comunique, The
Kobra Khan
Loma Preita
Louise Cypher
Love Lost but Not Forgotten
Native Nod
Noisy Sins of the Insects
Orchid
Pg. 99
Policy of 3
Portraits of Past
Rorshach
Saddest Landscape, The
Saetia
Sea, The Sea, The
Second Story Window
Sed non Satiata
Shroomunion
Suis la Lune
Three Studies of a Crucifixion
Totoro
Touche Amore
Tristan Tzara
You and I
Welcome the Plague Year

resopamenic

01-02-17, 12:17 PM

that quite a story mr zotis,
i'm not really fond screamo and stuff, but this thread could save my "google time" xD. even seen Les Rallizes Dénudés there somehow (great mr.mnio luv u) . never underestimates mofos xD , great

Zotis

03-30-17, 01:59 AM

In the early 2000's I began to take an interest primarily in Post-Hardcore. Although I had been aware for a while of Underoath and a few other Metalcore bands, for some reason I didn't explore them until around 2005. I also tended to dabble in Pop Punk and other Punk bands that had Hardcore, Post-Hardcore, and Post-Punk elements. I'm going to attempt to catalog these bands according to the influence they had on me at the time, and how much I still enjoy them. Thrice was the single most influential band in my life from 2002 until 2009. Although I rarely listen to these bands anymore, the two exceptions are Alexisonfire and Underoath. One of the most landmark experiences in my exposure to music was seeing Alexisonfire live in 2003. I had their CD, but I still had mixed feelings about the screaming. It was a little too intense. I hadn't fully acquired a taste for screaming yet. I had an impulse to go and see them live. I went by myself. I have never seen so much energy on stage in a live performance since. It was like being blasted with a massive wave of emotion and pure raw energy. It took a while to fully sink in though before I fully embrace their music. I also have this nostalgic memory of listening to their CD and reading the lyrics sheet and trying to figure out what they were saying. There was a moment when it clicked and I finally began hearing what they were actually saying and discovering mistakes in the lyrics sheet. It was like uncovering an incredible mystery to me. I'll never forget that euphoric sensation.

For some bands I will list only certain albums. This means that the rest of their discography is either unfamiliar to me or not something I have any interest in. A lot of bands change their sound, or some albums are just better than others. To each their own I suppose, but this is just for myself personally. As much as possible they are in descending order of prominence according to their influence on and appeal to me.

Pop Punk
Rufio (Ep., Perhaps, I Suppose..., MCMLXXXV)
Yellowcard (Way Away, Ocean Avenue)

Post-Hardcore
Alexisonfire (S/T, Math Sheets Demo)
Thrice (First Impressions, Identity Crisis, The Illusion of Safety, The Artist in the Ambulance, If We Could Only See Us Now)
Funeral for a Friend (Seven Ways to Scream Your Name, Casually Dressed & Deep in Conversation, Hours)
Thursday
Choke
Moneen
Avenged Sevenfold (Sounding the Seventh Trumpet)
Finch (What Is it to Burn, Say Hello to Sunshine)
Senses Fail (Let it Enfold You)

Mathcore
Norma Jean (Redeemer)
Protest the Hero (Kezia, A Calculated Use of Sound)
Poison the Well
The Devil Wears Prada (Dear Love: A Beautiful Discord)

Metalcore
Underoath (Act of Depression, Cries of the Past, The Changing of Times)
Killswitch Engage (Alive or Just Breathing, The End of Heartache)