Meaning of life and happiness revealed by science

[90sAce]

This is interesting, because it affirms my view that the most essential element of happiness and meaning in life is simply living for a purpose, and is an individual choice, not something dictated by external factors.

Apparently simply "having" a purpose is more important in the long run, than the specific purpose itself

I'm also glad that science doesn't endorse the notion the nihilistic that "life is meaningless"; I see this promoted a lot of the internet by atheists as the immediately logical conclusion of atheism, but science is showing this just to be opinion and rhetoric.

If anything it seems that living meaninglessly has more to do with unhappiness than anything else (this is why you can find miserable millionaires like Ebenezer Scrooge, but find happy working class people).

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Meaning_of_life

Researchers in positive psychology study empirical factors that lead to life satisfaction,[15] full engagement in activities,[16] making a fuller contribution by utilizing one's personal strengths,[17] and meaning based on investing in something larger than the self.[18] Large-data studies of flow experiences have consistently suggested that humans experience meaning and fulfillment when mastering challenging tasks, and that the experience comes from the way tasks are approached and performed rather than the particular choice of task. For example, flow experiences can be obtained by prisoners in concentration camps with minimal facilities, and occur only slightly more often in billionaires. A classic example[16] is of two workers on an apparently boring production line in a factory. One treats the work as a tedious chore while the other turns it into a game to see how fast she can make each unit, and achieves flow in the process.

[Sexy Celebrity]

We're here. Everything is here. It could not be. It's not meaningless because we are here. Life's purpose is being here, doing whatever we do. It's as simple as that.

[90sAce]

We're here. Everything is here. It could not be. It's not meaningless because we are here.

Life's purpose is being here, doing whatever we do. It's as simple as that.
Nope sorry that's hasty generalization, science shows that "whatever you want" isn't always created equal.

A person who wants to just sit and collect welfare and use drugs all day has an 'inferior' purpose than someone who say starts a charity to feed the homeless, or raises a family, or aspires run a business, etc - or do something for a purpose in general, instead of just doing something completely meaningless

Sounds like you're not understanding what's being said here - this is why again I dislike humanism - since it leads to reactionary claims about "everyone is different" even when the point's being missed. Everyone isn't 100% different on the most fundamental level - people are all members of the same species and have similar biologies.

I agree with you that there's no 1 "right or wrong career, hobby, interest, etc" people can have - but that doesn't mean people can just do whatever they want.

That sounds either too nihilistic, or too humanistic (as in based on the idea that happiness is completely relative to the individual, even though science shows it's based on chemical reactions in the brain, and not all lifestyles produce this on the same level as others).

[Sexy Celebrity]

Nope sorry that's hasty generalization, science shows that "whatever you want" isn't always created equal.

A person who wants to just sit and collect welfare and use drugs all day has an 'inferior' purpose than someone who say starts a charity to feed the homeless, or raises a family, or aspires run a business, etc - or do something for a purpose in general, instead of just doing something completely meaningless

Sounds like you're not understanding what's being said here - this is why again I dislike humanism - since it leads to reactionary claims about "everyone is different" even when the point's being missed.

There's no 1 "right or wrong career, hobby, interest, etc" people can have - but that doesn't mean people can just do whatever they want. That sounds either too nihilistic, or too humanistic (ex. "There's no such thing as right/wrong because everyone is different").

I'm not being nihilistic.

Someone's role in life might be inferior to the role someone else plays. But if someone winds up on welfare and doing drugs, science should be able to prove why that happened. Just as science can explain the behaviors and actions of other animals.

I'm not trying to say that life is meaningless -- but some people may believe their lives are meaningless. I think there's a purpose for that. Like... it happened, so it was gonna happen. That was that thing's purpose. In my view, nihilists are here and have a purpose for being here. Everything's here and has a purpose for being here. Doesn't matter if the purpose is significant or not -- it was meant to be. It was gonna happen. I don't look at that through the lens of meaninglessness. I look at it through the lens of purpose. That even the worst atrocities and nightmares of life have a purpose in this universe.

[90sAce]

I'm not being nihilistic.

Someone's role in life might be inferior to the role someone else plays. But if someone winds up on welfare and doing drugs, science should be able to prove why that happened. Just as science can explain the behaviors and actions of other animals.

Sounds like you're coming from a view that "there is no free will", so that if a person becomes a drug addict, they were "destined to do so".


I'm not trying to say that life is meaningless -- but some people may believe their lives are meaningless. I think there's a purpose for that. Like... it happened, so it was gonna happen. That was that thing's purpose. In my view, nihilists are here and have a purpose for being here. Everything's here and has a purpose for being here. Doesn't matter if the purpose is significant or not -- it was meant to be. It was gonna happen. I don't look at that through the lens of meaninglessness. I look at it through the lens of purpose. That even the worst atrocities and nightmares of life have a purpose in this universe.
Why do you believe in pre-destination or fatalism, or whatever the proper term is? It's not a view which is unilaterally supported by science.

There are theories that human consciousness exists on a quantum level, so if your view is that all human actions are only the result of external stimuli in their environment (and therefore unavoidable), that's not necessarily true.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Sounds like you're coming from a view that "there is no free will", so that if a person becomes a drug addict, they were "destined to do so".

Yes, I am.

Why do you believe in pre-destination or fatalism, or whatever the proper term is? It's not a view which is unilaterally supported by science.

There are theories that human consciousness exists on a quantum level, so if your view is that all human actions are only the result of external stimuli in their environment (and therefore unavoidable), that's not necessarily true.

If human consciousness exists on a quantum level, or whatever, we're not aware of it consciously. I believe we do have a quantum level or whatever -- I think of it as the subconscious. But we're not aware of it. We're aware of whatever we're conscious of.

I wouldn't necessarily call it "predestination." That sounds like ... I dunno... that it was all thought up ahead of time. Maybe it was, but I think that's ... delving into theories of God, maybe, or whatever.

I believe in fate. But fate is just a way of explaining how people's lives turned out. Since I think people's lives aren't something they can really control ('cause there's no free will -- everything is predetermined on that subconscious/unconscious/quantum level before it hits consciousness) -- what happens to you is "fated." You can't create the outcome. It just happens to you. Even if you make a billion "choices" that feel like you designed the whole thing -- you're not really in control because there's no free will.

We've created and developed so much in life, as a species. I believe that every little small thing -- every little life -- has helped in some way to get us to where we are. And where we're going. Every life has influenced the world in some way. Outer space and everything out there helped this planet form and get us here. Everything's connected. We are one. It sounds silly, but I do believe in it. Things and lives affect us and change the world. Things affect people who make great changes in the world. I don't even really worry about the future of our planet and our species. Everything will take care of itself. Everything's that gonna happen will happen. That doesn't mean you just sit around and do nothing but wait. But everything will play out as it's supposed to play out. If that means bad things will happen or human beings will destroy themselves -- that's meant to happen. If the dinosaurs weren't dead, we wouldn't have the glorious lives we have now, probably. Unless maybe they could all be contained. But -- they're not here. Oh, well.

[Pussy Galore]

That is a very interesting subject, some defend that happiness is a purely biological process, the secretion of dopamine, etc.

My personnal position is the same as Aristotle, that happiness comes after leading a virtuous and fruitfull life, I think it's a result from the way you lead life other then something you should consciously want to reach for. Having a purpose as itself might be more important then the purpose itself yeah I'd agree.

[Sexy Celebrity]

When you're happy, you're happy. When you're sad, you're sad. When you like your life, you like your life. When you don't like your life, you don't like your life.

[90sAce]

Yes, I am.

If human consciousness exists on a quantum level, or whatever, we're not aware of it consciously. I believe we do have a quantum level or whatever -- I think of it as the subconscious. But we're not aware of it. We're aware of whatever we're conscious of.

I wouldn't necessarily call it "predestination." That sounds like ... I dunno... that it was all thought up ahead of time. Maybe it was, but I think that's ... delving into theories of God, maybe, or whatever.

If we're actually part of a "higher consciousness" then we could essentially be beings from another plane of existence, simply controlling our physical form at our will.


I believe in fate. But fate is just a way of explaining how people's lives turned out. Since I think people's lives aren't something they can really control ('cause there's no free will -- everything is predetermined on that subconscious/unconscious/quantum level before it hits consciousness) -- what happens to you is "fated." You can't create the outcome. It just happens to you. Even if you make a billion "choices" that feel like you designed the whole thing -- you're not really in control because there's no free will.

We've created and developed so much in life, as a species. I believe that every little small thing -- every little life -- has helped in some way to get us to where we are. And where we're going. Every life has influenced the world in some way. Outer space and everything out there helped this planet form and get us here. Everything's connected. We are one. It sounds silly, but I do believe in it. Things and lives affect us and change the world. Things affect people who make great changes in the world. I don't even really worry about the future of our planet and our species. Everything will take care of itself. Everything's that gonna happen will happen. That doesn't mean you just sit around and do nothing but wait. But everything will play out as it's supposed to play out. If that means bad things will happen or human beings will destroy themselves -- that's meant to happen. If the dinosaurs weren't dead, we wouldn't have the glorious lives we have now, probably. Unless maybe they could all be contained. But -- they're not here. Oh, well.
Who "meant" it to happen? And if everything that happened was "meant" to better the human species, then why do thinks happen which detract from that.

For example the fall of the Roman Empire set Europe back culturally for hundreds of years - why would whatever god or force which "fated" everything to happen not do a better job at achieving the end goal?

[90sAce]

My personnal position is the same as Aristotle, that happiness comes after leading a virtuous and fruitfull life, I think it's a result from the way you lead life other then something you should consciously want to reach for. Having a purpose as itself might be more important then the purpose itself yeah I'd agree.
I agree with this, but I think that the science behind why it works is important, and it helps to debunk a lot of common notions that society and the media promote about what causes happiness, or a lack thereof.

[Sexy Celebrity]

If we're actually part of a "higher consciousness" then we could essentially be beings from another plane of existence, simply controlling our physical form at our will.

It's possible. I'm interested in evidence -- or at least the idea -- that there's something greater than our lives on this planet, in these bodies with no free will. What you say doesn't confirm it and I could probably think of reasons why, if I wanted to right now... but my mind is open to the idea of a "higher consciousness." Or whatever.


Who "meant" it to happen? And if everything that happened was "meant" to better the human species, then why do thinks happen which detract from that.

I'm not saying everything that happens is meant to better the human species. But look at all we have -- cars, airplanes, computers, etc. etc. Skyscrapers. Movies. You name it. Life unfolded for all us in ways that led to these things. Your favorite movie -- it came into this world because life played out in certain ways that made it exist. Life isn't meaningless if you can appreciate how the randomness of life brought forth so much that you love about life. If you're gonna sit around and cry about how life is unfair and sucks and there's no point to it... whatever. But you can always talk yourself out of it. Just think differently. Think appreciatively.

For example the fall of the Roman Empire set Europe back culturally for hundreds of years - why would whatever god or force which "fated" everything to happen not do a better job at achieving the end goal?

I'm not saying God or a force made that happen.

But if it did, that's the master plan. There's a lot of horrors in the world. I watched a video recently of a slaughterhouse and it made me never want to eat meat again. Such horrible animal cruelty. But guess what? I had some chicken and it really brightened up my day. Thank you, chicken, for being murdered so I could be happier.

[-KhaN-]

People look at science too much, science won't tell you when to be happy and when to be sad, if it is, then something is wrong with you (not you personally). Different stuff makes different people happy. I mean literally EVERYTHING you do has a meaning, so meaningless life is nonsense...I'm simple, little stuff makes me very happy. Science has nothing to do with the subject, it can say this and that, but in the end its bs. For example, science can prove how thunder works and that means there is nothing behind them? Why? Knowing the process dose not mean there is nothing behind it. Not that I believe God creates thunder :D I just used that as example.

[90sAce]

People look at science too much, science won't tell you when to be happy and when to be sad, if it is, then something is wrong with you (not you personally). Different stuff makes different people happy. I mean literally EVERYTHING you do has a meaning, so meaningless life is nonsense...I'm simple, little stuff makes me very happy.

Science shows that the "thing itself" isn't the key to happiness, as much as the method in which it's being done.


Science has nothing to do with the subject, it can say this and that, but in the end its bs.

It does, it's based on the neurological chemicals in the brain, and the specific types of behavior which produce these chemicals

That just sounds anti-intellectual - like the religious person who decides evolution is false just because "monkeys turning into man seems ridiculous to me".


For example, science can prove how thunder works and that means there is nothing behind them? Why? Knowing the process dose not mean there is nothing behind it. Not that I believe God creates thunder :D I just used that as example.
Don't understand that one - since explains "how things work", not "why they're here".

[-KhaN-]

Good luck with brain chemicals and definitions, that will make you happy for sure...

Oh its anti-intellectual? Insulting now are we? I guess I can't argue with someone who has combined knowledge of this universe. You can't be happy by any definition, same as love... Whats next? Formula for being happy? Are they going to sell it in a bottle? Or after math class i go to "Meaning of Life" to learn formula and solve X and Y in order to learn it? In that term its bs and a nonsense... Anyone that has different opinion on a subject is religious nut? Very "intellectual".

There is nothing not to understand, science is basis for "There is no God" and you know it, you proves it with post above... Now, I'm not saying all of science is bad, false or anything like that, very very far from it, I just think you can't putt science into things like life, being happy and love...

[Pussy Galore]

René Descartes (a famous 17th century french philosopher) defended that the body and the mind were two different things that are separated so that the ''soul'', consciousness all those issues were not related to the body, but to some sort of entity we do not know about (for him it was god). What I think 90sAce is saying is that happiness and even consciousness is something natural and it results from a reaction from the body (the brain) and not from a supernatural entity called the soul or god. And that therefore it can be understood by neuroscience. I personally share this naturalist point of view because evidence tend to go toward that direction, but there is no consensus.

We have the capacity to reason, to make choice, but the feeling that would make us happy would be a certain chemical reaction in the brain and not what our consciousness decides that makes us happy.

[90sAce]

Good luck with brain chemicals and definitions, that will make you happy for sure...

Oh its anti-intellectual? Insulting now are we?

That's not insulting, that's descriptor - having an attitude that "science is bunk, just go with what sounds right to you" is basically anti-intellectualism.


I guess I can't argue with someone who has combined knowledge of this universe. You can't be happy by any definition, same as love... Whats next? Formula for being happy? Are they going to sell it in a bottle? Or after math class i go to "Meaning of Life" to learn formula and solve X and Y in order to learn it? In that term its bs and a nonsense...

That's the problem right here - people "assume" you "can't be taught it" simply because most schools don't teach it - even though a lot of philosophy is essentially an attempt to do just that - though often in practical instead of scientific terms.


Anyone that has different opinion on a subject is religious nut? Very "intellectual".

What do you believe it is then? If you don't believe it's science, then the only alternative is supernatural - which is the same as religion and theism.

And if your answer is "it just can't be explained" - that's the same as saying it's "supernatural".


There is nothing not to understand, science is basis for "There is no God" and you know it, you proves it with post above...

Non sequiter - plenty of people (like the American founders) believed in God but didn't believe that it conflicted with science.

Science doesn't explain "why" the universe exists at all - so it's totally possible to believe in a God without believing


Now, I'm not saying all of science is bad, false or anything like that, very very far from it, I just think you can't putt science into things like life, being happy and love...
That's a religious/theist view by definition.

What do you think causes happiness and love then, magic?

This is what I dislike about humanism and it's influence on society - basically it promotes the idea that just because "humans are different" than other animals, or have individual personalities, that human nature and behavior "can't be analyzed or understood" - so it isn't a far cry from theism or religion.

[90sAce]

René Descartes (a famous 17th century french philosopher) defended that the body and the mind were two different things that are separated so that the ''soul'', consciousness all those issues were not related to the body, but to some sort of entity we do not know about (for him it was god). What I think 90sAce is saying is that happiness and even consciousness is something natural and it results from a reaction from the body (the brain) and not from a supernatural entity called the soul or god. And that therefore it can be understood by neuroscience. I personally share this naturalist point of view because evidence tend to go toward that direction, but there is no consensus.

We have the capacity to reason, to make choice, but the feeling that would make us happy would be a certain chemical reaction in the brain and not what our consciousness decides that makes us happy.
That's mostly true, thanks - in the terms of consciousness though, I don't believe it's strictly neurochemical - evidence shows that human consciousness exists on a quantum level, so I believe consciousness is part of a greater physical phenomena than the brain itself

[-KhaN-]

That's not insulting, that's descriptor - having an attitude that "science is bunk, just go with what sounds right to you" is basically anti-intellectualism.

But I didn't say that, did I? Quite the opposite, not believing science can give you a formula how to be happy or in love, not believing science should tell you "be happy because we say so" dose not mean I dislike science in general or think its false, just like disliking one movie genre dose not mean I dislike all movies...


That's the problem right here - people "assume" you "can't be taught it" simply because most schools don't teach it - even though a lot of philosophy is essentially an attempt to do just that - though often in practical instead of scientific terms.

So you want formula on how to love and/or be happy? And you don't see nothing laughably wrong with that? You want someone else to tell you when/how to love? You want medicine for that? "Kids, today we learn how to be happy, just drink this, and you will see flowers and dragons..."


What do you believe it is then? If you don't believe it's science, then the only alternative is supernatural - which is the same as religion and theism.

I said there is no formula for it, I said it can't be thought, I said you can't make a pill to fall in love and have happy life and things like that, not that there is no process that happens to human beings. But human reaction also happens as aftereffect.

And if your answer is "it just can't be explained" - that's the same as saying it's "supernatural".

You ever thought how some things just shouldn't be explained?

Science doesn't explain "why" the universe exists at all - so it's totally possible to believe in a God without believing

But people take science as base for not believing in God, people assume because you can prove how process works that it means there is nothing behind it.

This is what I dislike about humanism and it's influence on society - basically it promotes the idea that just because "humans are different" than other animals, or have individual personalities, that human nature and behavior "can't be analyzed or understood" - so it isn't a far cry from theism or religion.

It can't. No two humans are same, animals have urges they follow more than humans, you saw humans as cats going out and humping when its "their month"? Sometimes you can't even predict what animal will do.