MoFo Directors Cup: John Ford

[bluedeed]

John Ford

http://www.davekehr.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/thelonggrayline_1955_bts_28_1200.jpg

In the annals of American film, no name shines more brightly than that of John Ford. Director and filmmaker for more than half a century, he stands preeminent in his craft — not only as a creator of individual films of surpassing excellence, but as a master among those who transformed the early motion pictures into a compelling new art form that developed in America and swept the world. As an interpreter of the Nation’s heritage, he left his personal stamp indelibly printed on the consciousness of whole generations both here and abroad. In his life and in his work, John Ford represents the best in American films and the best in America. —Commendation on the presidential Medal of Freedom given John Ford in 1973

The Films

3 Bad Men (1926)
https://theseventhart.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/3-bad-men.jpg

Steamboat Round the Bend (1935)
https://anotherfilmblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/steam11.jpg

Wagon Master (1950)
http://www.lassothemovies.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Wagon-Master-1950-5.jpg

The Quiet Man (1952)
http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac139/bluedeed/vlcsnap-2015-04-29-11h38m59s181_zpsrms5nvji.png

7 Women (1966)
http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/7-women-bars-580.jpg

Participants
Bluedeed
Christine
Citizen Rules
Cobpyth
Daniel M
Friendly Mushroom!
Frightened Inmate No. 2
Jal90
JiraffeJustin
Neiba
Rauldc14
Sane
Seanc
The Sci-Fi Slob

Rules
1. Must watch all of the films chosen
2. Must write something about each film in this thread (let me know if you think subtreads would be worthwhile)
3. Anyone can join at any time so long as they comply with these rules
4. The voting deadline for the 5th film is May 8th
5. The deadline is August 1st (unless the group decides a better time)

[Daniel M]

I vote for How Green Was My Valley. I feel bad voting for the most well known (probably) but I really need to watch it, it's set in Wales and that's where I live too :)

[jal90]

Can I participate in this? I forgot to post in the original thread.

Out of these I'd vote for Wagon master. It seems it's quite well-received among various Ford fans I know.

[bluedeed]

Can I participate in this? I forgot to post in the original thread.

Out of these I'd vote for Wagon master. It seems it's quite well-received among various Ford fans I know.

Yeah, no problem, I'll add the few rules we have for this into the original post so people know it's easy to join

[rauldc14]

I'm definitely in Bluedeed. I need to see most of these, with the exception of How Green Was My Valley and The Quiet Man.

That's why I'm voting Wagon Master.

[jiraffejustin]

I voted for The Iron Horse, only reason being that I just want to see more silent films.

[bluedeed]

I voted for The Long Voyage Home because I think it would be very interesting as it's difficult to look at in an auteur context. We have at least 5 major auteurs working for and against one another. John Ford is of course directing and he's a very unique director, but the film is adapted from a play by Eugene O'Neill by Dudley Nichols and (I'm told, haven't seen the film yet) that has a significant impact on the way the characters feel. In addition to them, the cinematography is by Gregg Toland, most famous for doing the cinematography for Citizen Kane a year later, and appears very characteristically sharp and intricately designed. On top of that we have the ever distinct John Wayne (and Thomas Mitchell) as another personality providing another interpretation of the source material. It's a complex pool of authorship that seems ripe for discussion.

[seanc]

I voted for How Green Was My Valley for the same reasons as Daniel minus the being from Wales. Looking forward to it.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

Can I join?

Also I voted for Wagon Master .

[bluedeed]

Can I join?

Also I voted for Wagon Master .

Yup, I'll add you in a moment

[rauldc14]

I'm going to watch a Ford one of these next couple of days. :up:

[bluedeed]

The poll for the fifth film is now closed and I've edited the first post appropriately. The fifth film will be Wagon Master, one of Ford's best films about groups of outsiders coming together. It also features very few stars, the biggest names being Ward Bond and Ben Johnson, who was famous for his horse riding ability which makes him fit in very well in Ford's universe. Happy watching, everyone!

[Daniel M]

Nice one, I'll probably get to most of these after my exam period (ending 26th May).

[rauldc14]

3 Bad Men

When I first watched this film I figured it was one of Fords first films that he directed. But there were about 20-25 before it. For as old as this movie is, it is extremely impressive and I can see how Ford set the tone for American cinema and for the Western genre. His story making is brilliant and although I am much a rookie in the silent genre he proves that it can have just as impressive of a story without using any dialogue. Two things really impressed me with the film. The first was the score, as it was used in a way to tell us the story. The second would be the cinematography, which has shone so brightly in every Ford film that I have seen to date. And while I do prefer most of the other Ford films I've seen to date, I can't bypass the significance and the importance that this film seems to play on his future films. Surely I will have to watch more of Fords earlier works.

3+

[rauldc14]

I plan on rewatching The Quiet Man next. Should be able to get to it by Thursday.

[bluedeed]

3 Bad Men

When I first watched this film I figured it was one of Fords first films that he directed. But there were about 20-25 before it.

Try 50 or 60! Most of Ford's silents are lost, but he made a great deal of them.

[rauldc14]

I didn't realize it was that many Bluedeed! Even more exciting. Ford is already a top ten director for me and I've only seen like 8 of his films.

[seanc]

The Quiet Man:

I really enjoyed watching The Quiet Man. It is beautiful to look at with beautiful landscapes. I wish there had been no sound stage especially considering the scenes where it was used seemed like they could have easily been done on location. Those scenes were pretty sparse though so certainly easy to overlook. The story itself is quite simple but enjoyable. I especially enjoyed O'Hara as Mary Kate. This is the type of movie you can just let wash over you. There is nothing to put you on edge or offend. Not a perfect experience but a very nice one, and the first time I have enjoyed John Wayne that I can remember. A very solid start to my Ford viewing.

3.5

[rauldc14]

I saw it about 2 months ago Sean and really liked it. I'm even going to rewatch it this week.

[Sane]

I've had mixed feelings about Ford's films - although I'd only seen three before this. I thought The Grapes of Wrath was very good, The Searchers was good but very flawed and I didn't really enjoy The Man Who Shot Libert Valance. Something that perhaps concerns me about Ford was a major issue in TMWSLV - having a 54 year old playing a guy effectively just out of college. I'm not sure I can suspend that much disbelief and it bothered me that Ford went with that casting choice.

So, this week I watched Wagon Master & 7 Women and again my feelings were mixed. I haven't got too much to say about Wagon Master except that it was good. Nothing earth shatteringly brilliant but a good story with good characters and overall I enjoyed it. 7 Women I should have loved ... but I didn't. It was nice to see a movie with a focus on female characters but most of them were really underdeveloped and the acting of most of the cast was not great. It also concerned me that Ford went with another really odd casting choice - a big Austrian dude playing the Mongolian leader. I know this was made during a different time but regardless of that, bad casting is bad casting and the buck stops with the director.

Having said all that Anne Bancroft was great and it looked good. One question though - why was it called 7 Women?

[bluedeed]

A brief bit of Tag Gallagher on Wagon Master: "Said Ford: 'Wagon Master came closest to what I had hoped to achieve.' It is 'the purest and simplest western I have made.' Wagon Master’s magic is impossible to talk about on paper, yet easy to point to on the screen. It is in the sensuality of its black-and-white photography, the way light falling on landscapes and rivers and people makes love to them. And the magic is in the music. Wagon Master is a musical, a suite of movements, extended vignettes on western subjects: The poker game. The horse trade. The hold-up. The river fording. The thirsty dessert. The river bath. The bucking horse. The Indian dance. The whipping. The promised land. And populating the vignettes are western types: outlaws, pilgrim families, cowboys, townspeople, showfolk, Indians. Wagon Master is about these types, the people within the types, and their lines of motion on the screen."

I think Wagon Master is close to a masterpiece, it's about several groups of outsiders coming together to form a community. Basically, it's Ford's America. The biggest stars in the film are Ward Bond, a minor character actor in many of Ford's films, and Ben Johnson. Ford purposefully doesn't fill the film with stars. He wants to make a film about groups of people, not a few stars. He is sympathetic to all of these outsiders, including, unusual to this day, Mormons. Wagon Master is beautiful simplicity, and beautiful in its portrait of America

[Daniel M]

For those in the UK, Wagon Master is on movies4men at 12.15pm Saturday, I think.

[rauldc14]

The Quiet Man

This was my second watch of The Quiet Man and I must say I enjoyed it even more the second time around. This is a film that will undoubtedly need to make it into my DVD collection as well as a film that will be in high contention for my crowded 50s list. There is just so much for me to like about the movie, but in particular I really thought O Haras performance was great on second watch. Of course The Duke was a perfect match and the two had a lot of chemistry onscreen together. The story is simple but I particularly liked it's flashback boxing scene as I thought it added a lot of depth to John Wayne's character. Undoubtedly the best thing of the movie is indeed the stunning cinematography of Ireland. It is such a beautiful and colorful film. One of Fords best certainly.

4+

[rauldc14]

If anyone knows how to find Wagon Master, Steamboat Round the Bend, or 7 Women, let me know.

[Daniel M]

Film4 (or TCM, maybe it's a mixture) in the UK seem to be showing a load of Ford films recently. I recorded Wagon Master, The Searchers, The Long Gray Line and maybe some others. The Quiet Man is on in the next couple of days too, I've set it to record too :)

[Daniel M]

Got Donovan's Reef recorded, with Fort Apache and Drums Along The Mohawk also set to record. These are on a mixture of Film4, TCM, movies4men, sonymovies, for anyone in the UK. I just check every week all these channels in case they have something interesting on.

http://www.coffeecoffeeandmorecoffee.com/archives/wagon%20master%202.jpg

I just watched Wagon Master and I don't have much more to add that bluedeed hasn't said already. My favourite Ford film so far is Stagecoach, which is about different people of different cultures and professions coming together on a journey where they encounter different obstacles that test their relationships. I've read a bit about Ford himself, his Irish heritage, and this definitely reflects in his movies where the characters seem to be attempting to integrate into America, all trying to achieve their dreams, everyone is different, yet so similar.

As it's been said, this movie has a little sprinkle of everything. It's easy to see why this was one of Ford's favourite movies of his own, the plot seems simple on the surface but the combination of the different images and characters makes it much more fascinating and complex. A similar theme I also noticed seems to be the highlighting of hypocrisy of democracy and the justice system, in Stagecoach the army is criticised for leaving them, and a moral conflict is offered in how they allow the Ringo Kid, a fugitive, to join them, they befriend him and use him for their own gain. Here we have a group of religious travelers who have to take on board a band of criminals, and find themselves helpless to them, unable to act because of potential consequences and also an unwillingness to act violently perhaps for religious reasons, though they know their kindness and help will ultimately go unappreciated.

The act of violence and crime, and its place in society seems to be quite a frequent theme, characters are always conflicted when it comes to upholding the law, and it's often compared or contrasted with their own moral code. In a democracy how can these different people live together and expect to form a community when there are so many differences. Think of the constant use of Indians and their interactions with the white people, especially in The Searchers of course.

It's hard to put everything down in to words without it coming out like ramblings, but I feel like I'm really getting to understand Ford and what he wanted to achieve in his films. I think Stagecoach made me really notice a lot of things, and I really hope people give that a watch if they can.

4

[rauldc14]

Tough finding ways to access some of these Ford films :(

[Daniel M]

Here's what I wrote about The Quiet Man on my Mubi:

https://lambertsonclassicmovieclub.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/the-quiet-man.jpg

Slowly grows on you, you gut pulled in to the luscious Ireland Ford creates. A fascinatingly crafted "rom-com" for males. Once again Ford creates a great sense of community, painting every frame beautifully and filling each one with his love for the country.

4.5

[bluedeed]

Got Donovan's Reef recorded, with Fort Apache and Drums Along The Mohawk also set to record. These are on a mixture of Film4, TCM, movies4men, sonymovies, for anyone in the UK. I just check every week all these channels in case they have something interesting on.

http://www.coffeecoffeeandmorecoffee.com/archives/wagon%20master%202.jpg

I just watched Wagon Master and I don't have much more to add that bluedeed hasn't said already. My favourite Ford film so far is Stagecoach, which is about different people of different cultures and professions coming together on a journey where they encounter different obstacles that test their relationships. I've read a bit about Ford himself, his Irish heritage, and this definitely reflects in his movies where the characters seem to be attempting to integrate into America, all trying to achieve their dreams, everyone is different, yet so similar.

As it's been said, this movie has a little sprinkle of everything. It's easy to see why this was one of Ford's favourite movies of his own, the plot seems simple on the surface but the combination of the different images and characters makes it much more fascinating and complex. A similar theme I also noticed seems to be the highlighting of hypocrisy of democracy and the justice system, in Stagecoach the army is criticised for leaving them, and a moral conflict is offered in how they allow the Ringo Kid, a fugitive, to join them, they befriend him and use him for their own gain. Here we have a group of religious travelers who have to take on board a band of criminals, and find themselves helpless to them, unable to act because of potential consequences and also an unwillingness to act violently perhaps for religious reasons, though they know their kindness and help will ultimately go unappreciated.

The act of violence and crime, and its place in society seems to be quite a frequent theme, characters are always conflicted when it comes to upholding the law, and it's often compared or contrasted with their own moral code. In a democracy how can these different people live together and expect to form a community when there are so many differences. Think of the constant use of Indians and their interactions with the white people, especially in The Searchers of course.

It's hard to put everything down in to words without it coming out like ramblings, but I feel like I'm really getting to understand Ford and what he wanted to achieve in his films. I think Stagecoach made me really notice a lot of things, and I really hope people give that a watch if they can.

4

Good stuff Daniel, like me I think you're starting to get the hang of Ford. I've yet to see Donovan's Reef but I've seen Fort Apache which is great and Drums Along the Mohawk, which is Ford's weakest of 1939, but that's not really saying much because Stagecoach and Young Mr Lincoln (perhaps my favorite Ford) are masterpieces.

[Daniel M]

Good stuff Daniel, like me I think you're starting to get the hang of Ford. I've yet to see Donovan's Reef but I've seen Fort Apache which is great and Drums Along the Mohawk, which is Ford's weakest of 1939, but that's not really saying much because Stagecoach and Young Mr Lincoln (perhaps my favorite Ford) are masterpieces.

I was gonna write about Donovan's Reef in here soon. I know it's not on the list but I wanna include all my Ford viewings as I think they're all very interesting and worthy of discussion.

I think it's a film you'll like. Like The Quiet Man it's a non-Western in a different setting, and the cinematography is beautiful. It makes you want to live on a small pacific island with all these people. There's a great sense of community and fun to it all.

https://demonsresume.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/donavans-reef.jpg

What I like about it is how it mixes the past and present, there's a strong emphasis on cultures, traditions, how people should respect these, and how the mixture of cultures can great a lively community. The war's impact can be felt throughout, and the final act where we finally meet an elusive character turns out to be extremely powerful and heartfelt. A man explains why he has left America and why he loves where he lives now, and the monologue I thought was really effective and moving to me. It also seems to hint at exposing a hypocrisy in the US legal system and the way outsiders look at other communities without fully understanding them.

There's lots of light hearted fun moments like some of Ford's other films, as well as some more over the top screwball moments, a lot of them involving Lee Marvin, who's character is admittedly probably the weakest, unfortunately. But overall in terms of comedy I think there's more hit than miss. What I really like about these more personal, smaller scale Ford films are just how personal they feel, there's a warmth in every frame and he reinforces a sense of family (the female as the mother seems to be an important aspect), community, a country's past, cultures, traditions etc. it's a cliché saying but he really does manage to create films that are both simple and immensely complex at the same time.

[mark f]

I've seen all these Ford flicks a gazillion times, and I can recall the first times I "met" them, so it's really easy to put myself in your shoes (or for Donovon's Reef, bare feet) and read your enthusiastic reactions. Just remember, as always, you get out of a movie what you put into it, both as a filmmaker and as a filmwatcher. Many of Ford's movies of the late '40s through early '60s (10 in total) were written by Frank S. Nugent (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0637793/?ref_=fn_al_nm_5), so the more Ford movies you watch, the more Ford, as well as Nugent, details and consistencies you'll notice.

[Friendly Mushroom!]

i'm sorry but I think I'll have to drop out of this. I don't think I'll have the time to watch the films and I have no ways of obtaining Seven Women. I'll still watch Wagon Mater and Quiet Man but the others I don't think I'll be able to get to.

[bluedeed]

For New Yorkers or near enough to New Yorkers, a John Ford series beings today at Museum of the Moving Image with several of the films here http://www.movingimage.us/films/2015/07/03/detail/the-essential-john-ford/

[Daniel M]

For New Yorkers or near enough to New Yorkers, a John Ford series beings today at Museum of the Moving Image with several of the films here http://www.movingimage.us/films/2015/07/03/detail/the-essential-john-ford/

Wow, I am jealous. Are you planning on getting to any?

[Daniel M]

I watched a handful of Ford films recently, and it means I only have Steamboat 'Round The Bend to get to here. A few of these aren't included in this thread but I watched them anyway as I've been loving Ford recently, and they're still highly relevant to the discussion:

3 Bad Men (1926)

A masterpiece. The first silent John Ford film I have seen but one of his best overall. I haven't actually seen that many silent films, although I want to, and at the beginning I was wondering how the different style would effect Ford, not much it seems. He still manages to incorporate little things like accents and folk songs in to the film. We feel like we can still hear the characters talking. The visual imagery is fantastic, I loved one of the opening scenes where they were attempting to put the wheel back on the wagon, the sequences of shots seems fairly simplistic but also extremely clever, editing is really important in silent films and I noticed how well it was done here. I love the long shots and fantastic cinematic shots that I'm used to from Ford, he had a great eye for what makes a great shot even back then. What I loved most was how I connected with the story and the characters, "3 Bad Men" is a clever title, and had me fooled with what direction the story would take. I thought the film would be a more conventional thriller/action with the sheriff facing off against the gang, but instead it turned out to be an incredibly touching an emotional story of three good men, I loved their characters, and I also thought George O'Brien and Olive Borden were great for their roles. O'Brien had a bit of a masculine John Wayne feel about him, I'd like to see if he has any more leading roles. I thought the end was incredibly powerful and sad. Only an hour and a half, and it flew by, definitely an "epic" in my eyes. I'm really interested now to see what Ford's other silent films are like. If anyone has any recommendations that would be great, I'll probably end up buying Tag Gallagher's book(s?) soon too.

Drums Along The Mohawk (1939)

Probably the most disappointing Ford film that I've seen so far. I found out that it was his first colour film, and it's definitely one of his most beautiful. The colours are really rich and the images are really high quality, but apart from that I didn't care for much here. I like Henry Fonda, but apart from him the characters were extremely dull and so was the story. I know a lot of people have problems with how John Ford depicts the natives as villains, but my main issue here was their lack of motivation or development. There was a strange English character too with no consideration given too. In Ford's works like Fort Apache and Two Rode Together (both below) the villains may be similar, but they are given time on screen and dialogue with the "good guys" as well as motivations to their actions. Too many scenes in this film were just the villains attacking the Henry Fonda and his friends.

Fort Apache (1948)

I thought this one was excellent. I think it would make an excellent triple bill, with Stagecoach before it and The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance after it. From the latter it continues Ford's usual themes of the combination of different cultures and professions coming together to solve a common problem. We have Henry Fonda's character who is strict in his beliefs and follows the law by the book no matter what the consequences, and the likes of John Wayne who represents a more level headed character who assesses the situation from a more realistic perspective. As I've mentioned before, Ford always seems to look to expose the hypocrisies of the way democracy works, and how the enforcement of law often results in not helping those it is supposed to. In this case Henry Fonda is "the law", and turns the film into a fitting precursor to Liberty Valance, with his actions reminding us of one of Ford's most famous quotes from that film - "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend".

Two Rode Together (1961)

Similar to The Searchers in how it deals with the main characters seeking to "rescue" stolen family members from Comanches. One of Ford's most cynical works too, James Stewart's character is not very likable for a lot of the time. It deals with the question of responsibility, who's role is it in society to enforce the law, to help the families? I was disappointing by its ending though, up until then I thought it could have been a really great film, there's a great scene it should have ended on, which would have been a dark, horrific and fitting ending, but this is ruined by a "happy ending" scene, unfortunately. Still, a very good film.

7 Women (1966)

I was blown away by this one. I was really surprised by how different it is to a lot of Ford's work, even though it still has similar themes and carefully dissects others. There's a great subtlety to the whole film, the widescreen cinematography has a great Asian warmth to the whole thing, and the score is one of Ford's best for me. Anne Bancroft's character is fantastic, and the conflict between her and the women's religious institution is fascinating. Much like Ford normally tries to test the strict boundaries of the law and how it holds up in real human situations (see the ending of Fort Apache), this time he questions the code of religion as the film offers moral questions over what is acceptable and how these women should conduct themselves in the time of peril. There's an inevitable feeling of impending doom built up by the atmosphere and score, and whilst when the villains actually arrives there are some problems, it doesn't prevent the film from being a powerful masterpiece, with Anne Bancroft's actions in the third act providing an emotionally devastating ending. Ford really understands human themes: pride, sacrifice, honour etc. I watched this and 3 Bad Men back to back and thought it made for a fascinating look at Ford's career as a director.

[mark f]

I don't know Daniel. Those are very average Ford films in my opinion, although they can be analyzed and discussed and should be. But there are plenty of other Fords out there, as well as other directors to be discussed too. But I'm a curmudgeon since I don't think there are as many masterpieces out there as most people. There are plenty of interesting films though. :)

[Daniel M]

Well, I had seen a couple of Ford films ages ago and I wasn't blown away like some of these, I'm glad I watched them now as I think I appreciate them more than I perhaps would have. A couple of years ago I might have watched a film, thought it was okay in terms of enjoyment but really appreciate the craft behind it, but now I feel like I'm really enjoying these, I don't want to stop watching Ford films at the moment, I can't wait to get to the next one. They're bringing real powerful emotions of of me, I'll admit now that both the endings of 3 Bad Men and 7 Women had me close to tears. Some of the final scenes of Fort Apache and Two Rode Together moved me to goosebumps. I'm trying to discuss these honestly in terms of enjoyment as well as how interesting they are, I could appreciate someone giving Drums Along The Mohawk an extremely high rating, it has some incredible craft and imagery, but I just largely found it dull unfortunately.

The films I want to get to next are Steamboat 'Round The Bend, Young Mr. Lincoln, The Sun Shines Bright and How Green Was My Valley. And then after that there are many more films that look fascinating, to me at least.