6th HOF-The Sweet Hereafter

[seanc]

Nominated By: Godoggo

The Sweet Hereafter (1997 Atom Egoyan)

http://i57.tinypic.com/xo08zp.jpg

After much deliberating I finally found exactly what I was looking for in a nomination. Every question I ask myself when debating on a nomination was answered with a yes when I got to The Sweet Hereafter It's technically well crafted; visually stunning; powerfully emotional but restrained and dignified.

I know it's cliche to call a movie haunting, but I don't know any other word for it. It's one of those movies that refuses to be over after the credits roll.

[jiraffejustin]

Never seen this one, but I have seen another film by Egoyan, Exotica. It was a damn good film, so I am excited for this one.

[Godoggo]

This one's better. :D I hope you think so at least. I was really excited when I thought of it. I have a list of future nominees, but I try to do something different every time. The one I had in my mind to nominate, I just feel needs to wait for some reason. Just a gut feeling.

[cricket]

My wife and I watched this about 15 years ago and thought highly of it. I don't remember it well, but I'm going to watch it alone this time so I can focus properly. This is a real good nomination.

[Thursday Next]

I watched this when it showed up on the 90s list. I didn't love it, but I'm going to give it a rewatch and see what I think now.

[christine]

Not seen it so looking forwards to :)

[gbgoodies]

This is what I wrote in my logbook thread about this movie:

http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=1254557#post1254557

Overall, this was a very good movie, but I didn't really like the ending. Without giving away spoilers, I thought the ending was very selfish, and it left me feeling empty after the credits rolled.

The acting was great, especially Ian Holm as the lawyer. At first, I thought he was just a heartless lawyer who was just in it for the money, but as the story progressed, I realized that this was a way for him to help other families who lost their children, because he couldn't reconnect with his own daughter.

It took me a while to understand how the scenes with the girl reading the Pied Piper story to the kids played into it, until I realized that those scenes were flashbacks, and it was the girl who was injured in the bus accident. Then those scenes made more sense, but I thought the flashbacks were a bit confusing at times.

This is a very sad movie that's kind of hard to watch because there are very few happy scenes, but it's definitely worth watching.

3.5


In addition, I want to add some spoilers here in this thread.

The reason that I thought the ending was selfish was because while she lied about the speed the bus was going at the time of the crash because she didn't want her father to get the money, it was unfair to the other people involved in the lawsuit who lost kids, as well as the bus driver who did nothing wrong.

It also shouldn't have been a reason to drop the case because the father who was driving behind the bus could testify that she was lying, plus I'm sure that they could have proven that she couldn't actually see the speedometer from where she was sitting, so she couldn't have been that accurate about the speed of the bus.

[Godoggo]

I like the fact that we don't have the whole story at once. It's much more effective to have it come to us as it does allows us to absorb it slowly.

I'm not that concerned with the mechanics of the story as in if Nicole could see the speedometer or not. I know that sort of stuff bothers some people but to be honest it never occurred to me until you mentioned it. It's just not important to me because this is a movie that isn't about plot or story, it's concern is exploring it's themes.

As far as Nicole lying, she's angry. It might not be fair to the other people, but she's a child being molested by her father and now her dreams are dashed as well. It's not a situation where a character in her situation would be thinking of what's fair or just or even being able to fully comprehend the reasons behind her own actions. Nor would I expect a child in her situation to be able to. It's a very complex situation.

This is an analysis I found that gets across what I feel about the movie better than I can explain it. It talks about the book some, but you can just ignore that part.

http://www.academia.edu/2561703/Analysis_of_The_Sweet_Hereafter

[gbgoodies]

I wouldn't mind the story being out of order (using flashbacks) if it were a little bit easier to tell when they switched to the flashbacks, but some of the flashbacks were so seamless from the scene before it that it was partway into the flashback scene before I realized that it switched. (It doesn't help that I'm so bad at recognizing faces that everyone really does look the same to me.)

I understand why she lied, but it just didn't work for me. There were ways to prove that she was lying, so she shouldn't have been able to get away with it.

It's just one of those plot holes that nags at me after the movie is over.

[Swan]

Incredible film. I loved the cinematography and the score, especially. This is a film where everything feels precise but not in a contrived way – it still feels natural. Every shot is beautifully composed and doesn’t cut too early or linger too long. Maybe I’m crazy but during a few of the quieter moments I was reminded of Tarkovsky. Going to have to buy it now so I can revisit it from time to time. Curious to see more of Egoyan’s work. Like the film, I was completely unfamiliar with him before the 6th Hall of Fame. Really glad to have been introduced.

rating_4_5-

As for the ending, I don’t think it counts as a plot hole. Like Godoggo said, there are very real and very complex emotions and motivations at play here. Whether or not she’s doing the right thing is irrelevant, what is relevant is that it feels real, for reasons already stated. I don’t think a 15-year-old recently paralyzed girl who was molested by her father would be thinking about other people. Fantastic performance by Polley, by the way.

[christine]

Excellent film, and a complex one that I'm still thinking about.
My first thoughts are that I can't help being disgusted by the lawyer. His back story provokes some sympathy but using his own parental problems in the way he does when he tries to persuade Billy at the wrecked bus is horrible. The one big sadness amongst all the sadnesses and the sacrifice the little town makes is poor Dolores who had an accident like thousands of people do every day. The lie Nicole utters saves the town from ripping itself apart , but does she do that for that reason, no I suspect not. The use of The Pied Piper of Hamelin is inspired, the lame boy who is left behind is Nicole. Left behind but freed from the sexual attentions of her father, and possibly able to protect her younger sister?

There's a lot to unpack in this film. Thanks Go for nominating it:)

[Godoggo]

I'm really over the moon that at least a couple of people are really liking it. Even if it doesn't place well that makes me happy.

I really didn't have this on my list of future nominations but when I remembered it I thought about how it has everything I look for in a nomination and was really excited. I'm pleased at the reception it's gotten so far.

Christine, I want to watch it again before I discuss that scene with the lawyer. The film is pretty clear in my head except for that one scene for some reason. I remember it but not well enough for well thought out reply.

I remember my first viewing of this. You know a movie's good when your slightly obsessed with it afterwords. It also was the beginning of my love of Sarah Polley. Too bad she's not made a lot of films I really like, but at least she's always good.

[Swan]

Ha, she was actually in another film that had Ian Holm in it as well - eXistenz, directed by David Cronenberg.

[Godoggo]

I've seen that as well. Didn't love it and not sure I even liked it.

I really like Go a lot. It's just a sort of junior Pulp Fiction but it's really entertaining with a lot of eye candy for both the boys and girls. :D

[Thursday Next]

Go is great fun.

[Miss Vicky]

Well this was... unexpected.

I knew absolutely nothing about this film going in. I thought the performances were excellent, but I must say that I was rather confused about the situation between Nicole and her father at first. That's not to say that I didn't understand that he was molesting her, but rather that first scene of them together at the fair - their body language read to me more like that of a romantic couple than a father and child. It took me some time to realize what the true nature of their relationship was because Nicole didn't seem to display any real fear of him or any hatred until the final scenes. Or maybe I just missed it. (I caught the hesitation in the barn scene, but initially chalked that up to inexperience or to not wanting to go into some dark, creepy old building.)

Anyway, all in all it was a solid, thought provoking film, and I can't find any real fault with it. However, I can't say that I loved it like I was expecting to. Somehow I felt a little distant from everything going on so I'll dock the rating a bit for that.

3.5+

[Godoggo]

The risk I felt nominating it was that I do feel it's a movie that really takes a second viewing to let it all sink in. I loved it the first viewing, but I think I really picked up some of the nuances of the relationships the second time around.

[rauldc14]

The Sweet Hereafter

I had my doubts when I looked at the overall roster of the 6th Hall of Fame that this could reach the level of the 3rd or the 4th Hall of Fame, but then after watching a film like this it certainly gives this group a chance. This was really well made. I know GBG wasn't a big fan of the flashbacks but I feel that they are an integral part of the story telling by Egoyan. This was a splendidly shot, and well structured film. It looks like it is a film that wasn't responded to all that positively upon release in the US, but I think it was great, the story telling is certainly it's strongest point, and the fact that it really makes you think about the characters and oozes us into getting to know the feelings of each of these characters. I'll be honest and say I didn't think I would enjoy it as much as I did. I agree that I think a lot can be had upon a second watch as there are certain scenes that I already would like to rewatch to get a better feeling as to how it applies to the overall story. The biggest question I'd like to delve into is as to why Nicole felt lying was her best way of going at the end of the film. I understand she is broken about the situation but I would just like to analyze her answer a bit more. A really good nomination, Godoggo. I really hope this one does well too.

4+

[gbgoodies]

The Sweet Hereafter

I had my doubts when I looked at the overall roster of the 6th Hall of Fame that this could reach the level of the 3rd or the 4th Hall of Fame, but then after watching a film like this it certainly gives this group a chance. This was really well made. I know GBG wasn't a big fan of the flashbacks but I feel that they are an integral part of the story telling by Egoyan. This was a splendidly shot, and well structured film. It looks like it is a film that wasn't responded to all that positively upon release in the US, but I think it was great, the story telling is certainly it's strongest point, and the fact that it really makes you think about the characters and oozes us into getting to know the feelings of each of these characters. I'll be honest and say I didn't think I would enjoy it as much as I did. I agree that I think a lot can be had upon a second watch as there are certain scenes that I already would like to rewatch to get a better feeling as to how it applies to the overall story. The biggest question I'd like to delve into is as to why Nicole felt lying was her best way of going at the end of the film. I understand she is broken about the situation but I would just like to analyze her answer a bit more. A really good nomination, Godoggo. I really hope this one does well too.

4+


It wasn't that I didn't like the flashbacks themselves. I just didn't like the way the flashbacks were presented because it wasn't clear which scenes were flashbacks until it was too late. The characters didn't look any different, and there was no way to recognize the scenes as flashbacks, so I was trying to piece them into the current story, until something would finally trigger that it was a flashback and I realized what was happening. I just thought there should have been a way to tell that the flashbacks were flashbacks before it was too late.

But I agree that this movie would probably benefit from a re-watch more than the other movies because of the flashbacks issue.

[Godoggo]

Glad you liked it so much, Rauld. That makes me very happy.

I'm going to watch it again before a I speak about Nicole. I've seen it many times but I'd like to have it fresh in my memory.

[Miss Vicky]

My take on the lie was that she simply didn't want her father to profit from the accident and the lie would destroy his chances of winning the lawsuit. But also she'd seen the damage the suit had already done to the people of the town, who were suffering enough from the tragedy itself.

[Godoggo]

That's a good answer.

[rauldc14]

I like the answer, but I wonder if winning the suit would have helped her at all in the long run. I like that we see the bus driver two years later down the road though, that was a really good idea to have that be a piece of the puzzle.

[Miss Vicky]

Maybe it would have helped her, maybe it wouldn't have. I don't think she considered that or cared. Her goal was to get back at her dad. Her dreams had been destroyed anyway, so she probably felt like she had nothing to lose by screwing him over.

[Guaporense]

It's a pretty fun ride 4. The lawyer dude is really cool in the way he tries to manipulate the townspeople with the lawsuit. I was fully convinced by nicole's testimony as well.

Though I had a certain felling of deja vu regarding this film. I think I have probably watched it before like 10 years ago and I had forgotten it.

[christine]

Maybe it would have helped her, maybe it wouldn't have. I don't think she considered that or cared. Her goal was to get back at her dad. Her dreams had been destroyed anyway, so she probably felt like she had nothing to lose by screwing him over.

I think that too. I'm not convinced she would appreciate that what she did would also have saved the integrity of the community, but that's what it did. The parents were all compensated in the same way by the state and did not have to rely on whether they agreed or not morally with an ambulance chasing lawyer, so they were all left equal.

It was good to see the bus driver getting on with her life, but she was so great with the kids it's a shame. She was being so nice to all the bus customers at the end, it was a loss to the children of the town that she had to lose her job. I wonder though if she would be been actually found guilty of anything in a court of law? You have to wonder if the testimony of one child would be enough for that. Maybe showing us her working at the end means she wasn't .

[rauldc14]

We don't know exactly what happened, but I like to think the bus driver moved on with the whole school traveling thing and decides to drive bus for a different company. Whether that was forced upon her or not I do not know.

[christine]

Actually thinking it through she wouldn't have been found guilty of any misdemeanour otherwise she would never have been allowed to carry on driving a bus. Unless those last scenes are her just being a host not an actual driver.

[rauldc14]

Like I said, I've a feeling that she wasn't forced out, rather left because of the pain that she endured from the experience. And then she realized that bus driver is what she does, hence her working for a new company,

[Guaporense]

It was left ambiguous like an asian movie.

[Miss Vicky]

It was left ambiguous like an asian movie.

Yes, because usually only Asian movies have ambiguous endings. :rolleyes:

[gbgoodies]

Like I said, I've a feeling that she wasn't forced out, rather left because of the pain that she endured from the experience. And then she realized that bus driver is what she does, hence her working for a new company,


I agree with this. I don't think she was forced out either. I think she chose to leave, possibly because the memory of what happened may have been too painful for her to stay.

[seanc]

Really surprised I have never heard of this before as it came out in the middle of my Blockbuster days. Simple drama with complex characters so right up my alley. Its saying a lot when there is a scene of a bus crashing through the ice and that's not the scene that made me want to vomit. You guys have said a lot so I don't have a whole lot to add. I will say I thought there was a real spiritual vibe throughout the movie that I haven't seen mentioned. I especially felt it during the scene between the lawyer and one of the dads by the bus. When the lawyer looks to the sky and asks what is happening to the children. The score throughout gave me that feeling as well.

Great choice Godog. Glad to discover this one.

[cricket]

I saw this about 15 years ago, but this may have well been my first viewing because I hardly remembered it.

It would seem that I feel pretty much the same way as most. Goodie's points about Nicole's lie are certainly valid, but it didn't bother me at all in the big picture of the film. I think it's obvious Nicole did it because she was sick of her father taking from her, and I think she respected Billy, and made up her mind for certain when he came to visit. *I liked the character of Billy a lot. The lawyer is in a tough position because there will always be people for him and against him; it's just the nature of the business. I thought the story about his own daughter worked good as an aside, but I didn't feel strongly about it's connection to the main story. My take on the very end when he sees the driver working again is a little different. I thought he looked disgusted, and thought he was wondering how she could move on, especially in the same line of work.*

I thought this had a little bit of a made for TV feel-more of an observation rather than a complaint. The only thing I didn't like was the song they played when Nicole and her father were driving to give her testimony; I thought it was cheesy. I think this subject matter is inherently strong, and with good talent involved, it's hard to go wrong. Slow paced but never boring, it's a very well done, strong movie in which the power comes naturally. 4

[Swan]

I have a feeling this is going to win. Everyone has been positive about it.

That is, of course, a good thing.

[rauldc14]

I'm not sure where it will end up on my final tally but it winning wouldn't bother me at all.

[cricket]

Yea, I think it's definitely in the running.

[Godoggo]

That would make me the first two time HoF winner.

I just jinxed myself.

[rauldc14]

It's biggest hurdle being K-On at this point.

[Godoggo]

I'd say Brokeback Mountain had a good shot.

[mark f]

I'll make you feel better - I think The Sweet Hereafter is totally blah. Jinx removed. :)

[Swan]

Oh, who asked you! :p

[neiba]

What a fascinating film! Loved the photography, editing and soundtrack (that medieval song is beautiful) and the acting was great most of the time.

It's a really sad and depressing story but told in a very light way, so it's not overly dramatic! The relation with the Pied Piper of Hamelin (one of my favourite stories) is mesmerizing and it's one of those movies where the non-linear story really adds something to it! The final 30 minutes are amazing, and the way that weird daughter-father relationship changes the ending of the story is brilliant! It made me feel that the movie was mainly about that and not about an accident!
I feel this is one of the strongest contenders to win this HoF but I still need to watch some more pics! Great nomination Godoggo!!!

4.5-

[rauldc14]

Glad you liked it Neiba! How many left for you?

[neiba]

5.

Till May 17th I'll be terribly busy so it's a little hard for me to watch things faster but I'm on schedule!

[Sane]

Does this movie get removed if Godoggo doesn't come back? I hope not - I think it's got a very good chance of winning and it would definitely be deserving.

[seanc]

Everybody just keep watching and make your lists. I will make a decision about drop outs later. We only have one official so far.

[Gatsby]

The Sweet Hereafter (1997)

I already saw this movie long ago so I knew what to expect, and I think this rewatch has made the experience even better.

IMO the film could have been nearly plotless, but it would still be great. It's a study of characters through layers of cinematography and stunning, electric performances shown out of order. It does use the help of plot, but a minimum, with an accident and the outcomes from it.

For this reason I don't care about the ending, because there is no "ending" to this film. Every moment is a strong beginning and every moment is a strong ending.

Edit: I watched this film last in honor of Godggo. You will be missed.

4.5-

[Guaporense]

Everybody just keep watching and make your lists. I will make a decision about drop outs later. We only have one official so far.

One? Mine and Miss Vicky is already two.

[rauldc14]

He meant dropouts. He has a lot of lists, mine too.

[Guaporense]

Oh I see. I think Godogoo died or something because she really liked this forum.

[rauldc14]

My theory is her boyfriend didn't want her on here. I could be wrong.

[seanc]

Yeah I have nine. I know Gatsby and Mushroom are working through it. Inmate always finishes. So we are doing okay.

[Swan]

My theory is her boyfriend didn't want her on here. I could be wrong.

That's always been my suspicion as well. Starting to think Guap might be right, however. Just wish we knew.

[cricket]

She did disappear for a time and also kept talking about taking a break. That's at least a good sign that nothing drastic suddenly happened.

[Gatsby]

Yeah I have nine. I know Gatsby and Mushroom are working through it. Inmate always finishes. So we are doing okay.
I'm finished! :facepalm:

You didn't read my write-up at all did ya? :p

[Swan]

I kind of feel like we should just make this the winner in honor of G-Dawg. :(

[seanc]

Yeah I have nine. I know Gatsby and Mushroom are working through it. Inmate always finishes. So we are doing okay.
I'm finished! :facepalm:

You didn't read my write-up at all did ya? :p

Yeah I did actually. I realized what I said after I posted it.