View Full Version : 6th HOF-Sonatine
Nominated By: Gatsby
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x369/seancriswell/sonatine.jpg
rauldc14
02-08-15, 12:14 AM
I just watched this tonight. Being a pretty big crime and gangster film guy I thought it was something that could potentially appeal to me. But it really didn't. It's more to do with my taste certainly as I know there are a lot of mofos who really like this film. The characters felt hollow to me and there seemed to be a cultural barrier between the film and my viewing. The film was shot really well, but that's the only positive I could get out of it. The story bored me and the ending that a lot of people probably really like just didn't quite resonate with me. 1 down, 16 to go.
Sorry to hear you didn't care for it, raul. I for one, think it's a kickass film, but it's been some time so I can't really elaborate. I guess a rewatch is due.
cricket
02-08-15, 09:31 AM
Yea that's too bad Raul. I've had this on my watchlist since it showed up on the 90's list so I'm glad it was nominated.
Thursday Next
02-08-15, 03:10 PM
I love this film! Pleased to see it nominated.
christine
02-08-15, 03:25 PM
I love most Kitano films, it's ages since I had a re watch. Look forward to it.
Just finished Sonatine. A whole lot of style, and very little substance. I can see fans of 80's action flicks really going for this. That is not me. Its nice to look at, I give it that. Having a bit of a dry run here. Brokeback should be here Wednesday, so hopefully that will break the streak.
Just finished Sonatine. A whole lot of style, and very little substance. I can see fans of 80's action flicks really going for this. That is not me. Its nice to look at, I give it that. Having a bit of a dry run here. Brokeback should be here Wednesday, so hopefully that will break the streak.
I almost feel like you didn't watch the right film after reading that ;)
IMO there is an incredible amount of substance in Sonatine, as there is in all of Kitano's serious movies. They are also very personal which gives them an extra layer of depth. This is a character study of, to put it simply, a man suffering from depression and wondering why he should bother going on. His story also exists within a gangster movie that is very critical of the violence driven Japanese gangster lifestyle - shown by the moments of violence that seem to mean little to any of the people involved.
Kitano was dealing with depression himself when this was made - he almost died after making it ... in a motorbike crash while he was drunk and not wearing a helmet. He himself calls it an unconscious suicide attempt.
The picture above shows him smiling whilst playing Russian roulette which is one of the few times in the movie he shows any emotion - also pointing towards his emotional state.
Anyway, I think it's a near masterpiece and I think fans of 80s action movies would hate it because there is almost no action. It is much more like French gangster movies in that it is about depression & loneliness rather than being "entertaining".
IMO it's a really good nomination ... although I like Fireworks more :)
I get what your saying about the violence Sane. It does come in short bursts. The style was very reminiscent of 80's action flicks though. The dress, comedic aspects, and dialogue all screamed 80's action. I got that he was a depressed man looking for something different. I definitely don't feel like this was explored very much though. I need more than blank stares.
Yeah this isn't the enjoyable gangster film you would expect from someone, for example, Martin Scorcese. Instead of having lots of entertaining talk between the characters, having lots of pop songs, being fast paced etc its the exact opposite, and why I really enjoy this film.
One comment about the Kitano blank expressions, from my thoughts, can be explained with Japanese culture. I'm not trying to stereotype ot anything, but Japanese people tend to conceal their emotions, especially facial ones. It has to do with the main philosophy that has ruled Japan for years that I can't recall. Anyways, this makes the film interesting as you need to guess what the characters are going through without being explained directly, and can relate to you, sort of like Hello Kitty dolls that are proven to be popular because of an expressionless face that feels sad when you are sad, and happy when you are happy. It may sound strange to use this kind of analogy, but that's what I felt. Also as others above me mentioned, Kitano's character is a study of a depressed man trying to find the reason to live.
Overall, this film becomes more and more a masterpiece once you get to realize it from thinking and rewatching. If it stays the same, then its simply not a film for you. :)
cricket
02-15-15, 12:02 PM
I just finished Sonatine, and it's about what I expected. In recent times, I've become a big fan of Japanese cinema, but mostly much older movies. A lot of the Japaness movies I've watched from the last 20 years, I just don't like the style. Thankfully, this didn't have a lot of that style that I don't like. It could've been a little more consistent in it's grittiness, but overall, this wasn't a problem for me. I thought the violence was just right, not too much or too little. As others have said, it comes in quick, sudden bursts, and I like that. I did think the movie had a few short lulls that took away from my consistent enjoyment. Kitano was terrific, but I looked at him more as a cool character, rather then a man with inner conflict. That inner conflict was definitely present, but I only connected with that aspect of his character in a small way. If I had gotten more involved with his character, as opposed to just enjoying it, I probably would've liked the movie a bit more. As it was, I thought it was a solid crime film with an excellent lead performance. 3
Thursday Next
02-15-15, 12:10 PM
The "lulls" were what I liked about it!
cricket
02-15-15, 12:14 PM
And by lulls, I don't mean scenes in between the action, but rather just some scenes that I didn't care for. The scene with the circle at the beach for example, and other scenes when Kitano wasn't on screen.
Jidaigeki97
02-15-15, 01:23 PM
I just finished Sonatine, and it's about what I expected. In recent times, I've become a big fan of Japanese cinema, but mostly much older movies. A lot of the Japaness movies I've watched from the last 20 years, I just don't like the style. Thankfully, this didn't have a lot of that style that I don't like. It could've been a little more consistent in it's grittiness, but overall, this wasn't a problem for me. I thought the violence was just right, not too much or too little. As others have said, it comes in quick, sudden bursts, and I like that. I did think the movie had a few short lulls that took away from my consistent enjoyment. Kitano was terrific, but I looked at him more as a cool character, rather then a man with inner conflict. That inner conflict was definitely present, but I only connected with that aspect of his character in a small way. If I had gotten more involved with his character, as opposed to just enjoying it, I probably would've liked the movie a bit more. As it was, I thought it was a solid crime film with an excellent lead performance. 3
I'm sorry to hear that you didn't like it more. Sonatine is one of my favorites of Kitano, who has for a long time been my favorite director. I adore the distinctiveness in his style. I love the mix of serenity, humor, and hardcore violence.
I haven't watched it in a while, but I really respect Sonatine for the unique way it tells a Yakuza story. I like how it is unique, but also at the same time pays homage to the older Japanese films, especially those of Ozu.
The "lulls" were what I liked about it!
I too love the lulls! I love all the beach scenes where they're just screwing around.
The beach scene was my favorite scene. :shrug:
Miss Vicky
02-15-15, 03:24 PM
I'll probably be watching this one today. Looks interesting.
Miss Vicky
02-16-15, 12:52 AM
So I'm not quite sure what to make of this.
Visually it was really beautiful (though I kept thinking of Miami Vice for some reason) and there were quite a few scenes that I really enjoyed, especially those of the guys just killing time at the house, but I really didn't feel anything for any of its characters.Overall I wasn't bored by it and I think it's a solid film, but I wasn't overly impressed.
3.5
Guaporense
02-16-15, 02:18 AM
I included Sonatine in my top 25 of the 1990's.
Captain Spaulding
02-19-15, 05:38 AM
Of the nominees I haven't seen, this one looks/sounds the coolest. Too bad the reception has been lukewarm at best. Hopefully Gatsby doesn't slap any of you around like he does the kids he tutors. :p
christine
02-19-15, 04:02 PM
I've seen pretty much all Kitano's films ever since I discovered him in the late 90s. I rate Sonatine up there with only Hana Bi better . Sane sums it up well in his post above about Kitano and his depression which I think is a key reason why this film is as it is. I see it as a deliberate nihilistic film coming as it does after his first two violent Yakuza films. The self destructive mindset in Sonatine seems directly to reflect his real life . See at the end where he could've easily disappeared with the pretty girl who was waiting for him, instead halfway down the road, almost within sight of her, he shoots himself in the head.
You probably know he's a comedian as well as an actor and director , but he's always had a particularly childish sense of humour as anyone who has seen Takeshis Castle will know. The silly, and I think funny, games in Sonatine aren't out of character as I think he plays most of his roles from out of facets of his own personality.
The yakuza aspects of the film are traditional ones out of lots of yakuza films - the trainees, the Don, the sudden bursts of temper, the double crossing, the violence with no emotion - those aren't original to Kitano but they're done very well. Kitano's taciturn persona and the seemingly bizarre juxtaposition of humour and extreme violence are unsettling. Attempts to read emotion in their blank faces is fruitless and adds to your bewilderment as a minute before you were probably laughing . This is the way of the Kitano ;)
gbgoodies
02-25-15, 02:50 PM
This is what I wrote about Sonatine in my logbook thread, but with a little bit extra here about the ending of the movie.
http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=1261420#post1261420
I kind of have mixed feelings about this movie. It's supposed to be a gangster movie, but while the beginning and the end of the movie make it a gangster movie, the whole middle of the movie doesn't feel like a gangster movie. And the parts of the movie that I liked best were in the middle of the movie.
The middle of the movie is really the heart of the movie. That's where we really meet the characters. We get to know them as real people, not as killers in a gang. It's a bit slow, but that's the part of the movie that's worth watching. The rest of the movie is just about who's killing who, and who's going to make it out of each gunfight alive.
The ending is interesting. It seems like Murakawa finally has his life going in the right direction, but he chooses to end his life instead. He won the last fight so his gang is on top, and he has a girl waiting for him, so why would he choose to kill himself? It actually makes sense if you've been paying attention to the character throughout the movie. He doesn't seem to be a very happy person. He talks about how he's afraid all the time, and how death might be better than the way he lives his life. He seems happiest during his time at the beach when he's away from all the gang activity, so it makes sense that he doesn't want to go back to that kind of life.
3
Just finished watching this.
Amazing!!! I was hoping for a regular gangster movie but it ended being so much more than that!
I must admit the strange editing options distracted me a bit on the beggining but gradually everything started to be more clear... It's a cold, heart-wreatching masterpiece with an incredible powerful message about human degeneration!
The cold look of Tikanawa and his complete insensibility towards everything that happens (good or bad) make the final scene as dramatic as inevitable. It's visually astonishing and one can see that every shot is carefully planned whit the idea of creating a cold, hopeless atmosphere! Also, the soundrack is incredible!
It's one of those movies that don't try to explain everything, and that's what makes it so special!
Amazing nomination Gatsby! ;)
4.5 -
cricket
02-28-15, 07:45 PM
It sounds like you got pretty much everything that movie has to offer, Neiba. Pretty cool.
rauldc14
02-28-15, 07:46 PM
Did you watch the same film that I did Neiba?:p
Just finished watching this.
Amazing!!! I was hoping for a regular gangster movie but it ended being so much more than that!
I must admit the strange editing options distracted me a bit on the beggining but gradually everything started to be more clear... It's a cold, heart-wreatching masterpiece with an incredible powerful message about human degeneration!
The cold look of Tikanawa and his complete insensibility towards everything that happens (good or bad) make the final scene as dramatic as inevitable. It's visually astonishing and one can see that every shot is carefully planned whit the idea of creating a cold, hopeless atmosphere! Also, the soundrack is incredible!
It's one of those movies that don't try to explain everything, and that's what makes it so special!
Amazing nomination Gatsby! ;)
4.5 -
Glad you liked it so much Neiba. Good job on spotting the greatness of the film hidden behind the somewhat meaningless strangeness that can be seen as a cultural barrier, but actually a message and theme anyone can understand.
Did you watch the same film that I did Neiba?:p
I really think you need a rewatch, Raul. I've only given 1 to very few films and most of them have Adam Sandler in it. :p
I really think you need a rewatch, Raul. I've only given rating_1 to very few films and most of them have Adam Sandler in it. :p
I think raul rates movies he didn't like REALLY LOW if they're popular. Because, well, I don't know how any rational person can give Sonatine or Cries and Whispers only one star. :p
It's just raul being a contrarian. :D
rauldc14
02-28-15, 08:58 PM
If I recall I gave Cries and Whispers half a star. So at least Sonatine has that beat.
All I know is Naked is definitely a 0
Y'all have a bad taste. :D
All I know is Naked is definitely a rating_0
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I kid because I love
Thursday Next
03-09-15, 06:48 PM
Just finished rewatching Sonatine. I think it's great. I'd forgotten how much I really like the music, and how funny it is at times. So laconic. I love all the shots of people standing around blankly not reacting to things. It's both funny and disturbing at the same time. You know from the start that their strange idyll at the beach can't last forever, the violence of their past lives doom them all to violent ends. I like the way they don't quite know how to relax and have down time without shooting things and blowing things up, like fish out of water. Kitano's great, but I like the supporting characters too, especially the two younger guys who seem to make friends. The film looks great, I like the brightness of the beach and how that contrasts with the grey offices at the start.
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