The 2014 NFL Playoffs Thread

[Yoda]

Do it.

[Erasmus Folly]

Arizona Cardinals vs. Carolina Panthers
Baltimore Ravens vs. Pittsburg Steelers
Cincinnati Bengals vs. Indianapolis Colts
Detroit Tigers vs. Dallas Cowboys

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608006943908169696&pid=1.7

[seanc]

I'll go Cardinals, Steelers, Colts, Cowboys.

[teeter_g]

Cardinals, Ravens, Bengals, Cowboys
A girl can wish... (I absolutely detest the Steelers and NEVER want them to win anything)


EDIT: I meant to go with the Panthers. I screwed up. LOL! Oh well.

[cricket]

It doesn't matter; it's the Patriots year.:highfive:

[Yoda]

Why, did they dust off the old cameras? ;)

[cricket]

Nah, that was the silliest NFL story I've ever heard. They have a toughness on defense and at wide receiver that they've been missing for years.

[Yoda]

Everyone I know who thinks it was silly lives in Boston. :p

Anyway, they've got a shot this year, if only because Denver looks weirdly vulnerable the last few weeks. I'd still take The Field, though.

[cricket]

They should take care of Denver at home. The only team that I think is a big problem is Seattle.

After the camera story broke out, they promptly went out and had the best season in NFL history, before losing in the Super Bowl. The story was blown out of proportion by many of the talking heads in the media, but if anyone listened then to what guys like Mike Ditka and Jimmy Johnson said, they'd know how ridiculous it was. But people are naturally jealous, and like scandal.

[Yoda]

But people are naturally jealous, and like scandal.
They're also naturally inclined to dismiss criticisms of their team as jealousy. ;)

I don't think it, ya' know, caused their success, but it seems unlikely it was worth nothing, given that they thought it was worth doing despite the obvious risk. And given that all three of their Super Bowl victories were by a field goal, you don't have to think it was a huge factor to see how it could've dramatically changed their level of success. Right now, 4 points is the difference between "perennial contender" and "dynasty," and 9 points is the difference between "dynasty" and "the Buffalo Bills of the 21st century."

All that said, duh, you're gonna get your chops busted if you pick your own team to win. :p

[Camo]

I really want the Broncos to win it this year as i think a player of Mannings calibre should have more than one Superbowl, but i can't see past The Packers or Seahawks winning it. I'll guess Cardinals, Ravens, Cowboys and Colts. Also it's the Detroit Lions EF, the Tigers are baseball ;) .

[Yoda]

Ditto on the Manning thing. And man, what a capper that'd be for his career, even more than this ridiculous run with Denver he's had.

I don't love any one team as a huge favorite right now, though. I'd take 2-1 on The Field against any one team.

[teeter_g]

I would like to see someone who hasn't been to the Super Bowl in a while go. The Lions and The Bengals would be cool. LOL! Won't happen, but I would like it.

[cricket]

They're also naturally inclined to dismiss criticisms of their team as jealousy. ;)

Not me, I was a gambler, and that ruins you as a fan. It's about who you trust for information. If you listened to ex-coaches and ex-players, people who really know the game, they will tell you this type of thing has gone on forever with every team. Even the Broncos got caught doing it in 2010, but nobody seemed to care about them. The Patriots never got accused of cheating; they got accused of breaking a rule. Bill Belichick wasn't even suspended, and then Jets coach Eric Mangini has publicly stated that he regrets trying to get them in trouble. Every team tries to find an edge in every way they can; it's called gamesmanship, but games are won on the field. This is also the first year in quite a while that I believed the Pats were true contenders. It's amazing how far they made it the last few years with the lack of talent they had. It's a different story this year.

[Erasmus Folly]

Also it's the Detroit Lions EF, the Tigers are baseball ;) .
Sorry, temporary brain fart. :facepalm:

[jiraffejustin]

It seems really unfair (in that #FirstWorldProblems type of way) that the Cowboys have to play the Lions in the Wildcard after the season they just had. Add to it that if they want to go to the Super Bowl they probably have to go through Lambeau and CenturyLink.

[rauldc14]

The lions aren't that good anyways. Cowboys roll.

[Erasmus Folly]

I really want the Broncos to win it this year as i think a player of Mannings calibre should have more than one Superbowl, but i can't see past The Packers or Seahawks winning it.
And I would like to see Denver play the Seahawks again with the same result.(I used to live in Denver for 25 years and the Broncos were my team until Elway retired. Now I have lived in Seattle for 25 years and changed my allegiances. :shrug:

[jiraffejustin]

The lions aren't that good anyways. Cowboys roll.

I'd rather the Cowboys play the Panthers or Cardinals, I still think the Cowboys win. Sadly, I don't see them beating Rodgers and Co.

[rauldc14]

And I don't see my Packers beating Seattle. Sounds sad to say but I don't care just somebody beat Seattle!!

Seattle going to beat Carolina 38-3 probably.

[jiraffejustin]

Regardless of what happens, the Cowboys have already surpassed my expectations for this season by winning more than 6 games. If I complain about what happens now, I'd be being an unrealistic, selfish, butthead of a fan.

[Erasmus Folly]

And I don't see my Packers beating Seattle. Sounds sad to say but I don't care just somebody beat Seattle!!


Boo! :down:

[Erasmus Folly]

Congrats to the Ravens and to Gary Kubiak their offensive coordinator. Back in the day he was the backup QB to John Elway, thus did not play very often but when he did it was called the Kubiak attack. Looks like the Kubiak attack still works. Watch out New England!

[cricket]

The Ravens have given the Pats trouble in recent years. Not this year.

[doubledenim]

Panthers beating Cardinals is fool's gold. Local media would have you believe we beat a team that didn't have a "guy off the street" at quarterback.

[Yoda]

Not me, I was a gambler, and that ruins you as a fan. It's about who you trust for information. If you listened to ex-coaches and ex-players, people who really know the game, they will tell you this type of thing has gone on forever with every team. Even the Broncos got caught doing it in 2010, but nobody seemed to care about them.
That's because the Broncos weren't "caught," they reported the incident themselves (and the NFL found no evidence anyone beyond the responsible employee--who took responsibility--even saw the tape). The Patriots, on the other hand, did it until someone accused them of it and were forced to stop.

The Patriots never got accused of cheating; they got accused of breaking a rule.
There's no distinction here unless you believe the rule is meaningless and confers no competitive advantage--in which case, why do it all those years?

This also isn't literally true, anyway: they were accused of cheating a number of times. Hines Ward, for example, said he saw the Patriots lining up to cover offensive players who hadn't even reached their audibled position yet.

Jets coach Eric Mangini has publicly stated that he regrets trying to get them in trouble
Sort of. He stated that he didn't like the "what it's translated into." IE: that it causes people to question some of their victories. Probably because he shared in the credit for them. Not that the severity of the cheating changes based on how enthusiastic the accuser is. He could regret it completely and it wouldn't make any difference.

Every team tries to find an edge in every way they can; it's called gamesmanship, but games are won on the field.
It's gamesmanship when it's within the rules. Outside of the rules, it's cheating. And games are won by preparation as well as execution.

[Yoda]

Re: last night's game. Oh well. Not too upset; the last few years, anything the Steelers have done has felt like gravy. We sure did miss Bell, though. I think the Ravens are a lot less likely to make noise in the later rounds than we would have been.

Decent season overall, with some reason to be optimistic the next few years. These offensive weapons are legitimately scary, and if we can raise the defense to the level of mediocre the team could be very formidable. It was gratifying to see how explosive the offense was when the offensive line finally stayed healthy (it's been utterly destroyed by injury the last two years despite featuring several high draft picks).

All that said, I can't tell if the Pats-Ravens game is win-win or lose-lose for us.

[Yoda]

Also, a big :laugh: to everyone making any kind of confident prediction about anything. It's the NFL, silly people. It is fickle. You all know this.

[cricket]

You make a confident prediction with the realization that anything can happen on any given day, but it's based on the fact that if the team plays to it's potential, it will come out on top. None of the other AFC teams will come to Foxborough and win if the Pats are on their game. That's not a bold prediction, and that's not something I've thought in the last few years. It's the same with Seattle in the NFC.

[teeter_g]

Panthers got through because the other team played horribly, not because they played well.

[Yoda]

Saying a team will win if they play to their potential seems like a pretty big caveat, since there's no way to falsify it and there's always something a team could have theoretically done better.

Even so, the certainty then would be based on how likely they are to play to their potential. And since there's no way to be confident about that, there's no way to be confident about the outcome.

Happens every year, though. even as most of them don't come true. Football fans love to talk trash. :D

[Yoda]

Speaking of which:

Lions up 14-0. :eek:

[cricket]

I didn't see that game but I do see that Panther's defense limited Arizona to 78 total yards. Arizona may not have played well, but Carolina's defense was dominant.

I don't talk trash in favor of the Patriots or disparage other teams, and this is the first time I've been confident in the Patriots doing well in years. It has nothing to do with being a fan; I've bet against them way more than I've bet on them, foolishly. And remember, there's a reason there's a pointspread, and it's because all teams are not equal.

[Erasmus Folly]

Also, a big :laugh: to everyone making any kind of confident prediction about anything. It's the NFL, silly people. It is fickle. You all know this.
You make a confident prediction with the realization that anything can happen on any given day, but it's based on the fact that if the team plays to it's potential, it will come out on top. None of the other AFC teams will come to Foxborough and win if the Pats are on their game. That's not a bold prediction, and that's not something I've thought in the last few years. It's the same with Seattle in the NFC.
I live in Seattle and of course I want them to win. They probably have the best at home record under QB Russell Wilson of any team in the NFL. But what the game looks like on paper means nothing. That's why they play the game on the field.

Anybody who has played the game knows the truth of this and saying they play only one game at a time is not just a cliché, but the truth. Play with confidence for sure, but don't be overconfident. May the best team win.

[cricket]

Agree with everything you say, E Folly, but no matter how anyone looks at it, all teams are not equal, and the better teams win more often than they lose. I believe the Pats are the best team in the AFC, and with home field advantage, they're the favorite to get to the Super Bowl in that conference. That doesn't mean they will, but anybody knows that.

[Yoda]

Point spreads, far from justifying confident predictions, usually undermine them. The Pats are 7 point favorites next week, for example; significant, but not huge. The same as Dallas was favored most of this week, in fact (though it dipped just below before game time).

Also, there's an important distinction between being the favorite and being favored. Sticking with the betting theme, the Pats aren't actually considered likely to win, I don't think--they're just more likely than any other one team. The favorites every year going into the playoffs are almost always underdogs against Everyone Else, even if they'd be favored in each specific matchup, because of the inherent uncertainty and randomness of the game.

Anyway, the main point is that the best team loses all the time, and all this nuance is usually missing from the confident declarations. ;)

[Yoda]

All that said, make your case, Pats fans. :D Why should I hate you guys less than the Ravens? Not that I need a lot of convincing.

[Erasmus Folly]

For the record:

January 20, 2013: Ravens 28, Patriots 13

January 22, 2012: Patriots 23, Ravens 20

January 10, 2010: Ravens 33, Patriots 14
:highfive:

[cricket]

The Pats are currently 5/7 favorites to make it to the Super Bowl; that's rather significant. All I want to get across to you is that I'm not speaking from a fan's perspective, but rather what I objectively see. If I was still betting, I'd go against the Pats in a heartbeat if I thought it was the right play.

[cricket]

For the record:

January 20, 2013: Ravens 28, Patriots 13

January 22, 2012: Patriots 23, Ravens 20

January 10, 2010: Ravens 33, Patriots 14
:highfive:

Completely different teams and I had zero confidence in the Patriots in those games.

[Erasmus Folly]

Completely different teams and I had zero confidence in the Patriots in those games.
True, but the QB's were the same and the QB is the General on the field. IMO.

[Yoda]

5/7 is definitely big for playoff odds, but just taken as a yes/no proposition, it translates into (I believe) a 58% chance of them making the big game. That's kinda the point: being a huge favorite compared to other teams still only makes a team a slight favorite in terms of pure probability, against all other outcomes combined.

[Yoda]

Meanwhile, Detroit's slowed down (not surprising), but Dallas hasn't sped up (pretty surprising). 20-7 Lions, a little over a third of the game left. It won't shock me if they pull this one out, but yikes...

[cricket]

Sure, that's correct, but you must have some thought on what you think will happen? I believe it'll be the Pats who will represent the AFC, and I felt that way before I looked up the odds, and I've felt that way since about week 8. What I'm saying is that my feelings have nothing to do with being a fan; I even told Teeter a couple weeks ago that the crap Jets would probably give the Pats a tougher game than most people think. I wouldn't be shocked if the Pats lost any specific game, as I've seen too much happen in sports over the years, but surely everyone must think that somebody is going to win? I think it's the Pats, at least to come out of the AFC.

And as far as the quarterbacks being the same, it only means something if the supporting cast is the same.

[Erasmus Folly]

Dallas scores. But Whew!

[Erasmus Folly]

And, IMO, great QB.s like great Generals, inspire their supporting cast to play beyond themselves.

[cricket]

Surely you don't think Flacco is as good a QB as Brady?

[Yoda]

Oh, sure, they're the most likely team to come out of the AFC. On a neutral site I'd probably just flip a coin between them and Denver, but at home they're the favorites. I wouldn't feel at all comfortable betting on such a game, though.

But if nothing else, I gotta say, it's really amazing that we're even talking about this, given how disordered they look through the first month of the season. It's quite a turnaround. Ditto Seattle, in fact, starting 6-4 and letting bad teams hang around. Now both are the favorites in their conference. What kinda odds could you have gotten on that going into week 5?

[Yoda]

Surely you don't think Flacco is as good a QB as Brady?
Harbaugh: Flacco 'Best QB In Football' (http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2014/story/_/id/12118096/joe-flacco-best-quarterback-football-baltimore-ravens-coach-john-harbaugh-says)

As a Pittsburgh guy, I couldn't be happier that they think this, and paid him accordingly.

[Erasmus Folly]

And, IMO, great QB's like great Generals, inspire their supporting cast to play beyond themselves.

[Erasmus Folly]

Surely you don't think Flacco is as good a QB as Brady?
He beat him two out of three times in the playoffs. Nuff said.

[cricket]

I saw that about what the coach said about Flacco. I guess he's just supporting his guys, which is fine. I like the Steelers QB better, but it seems that he's been a bit of a one man show lately.

The Pats didn't have it at all after 4 games; they looked bad. Some players emerged on both sides of the ball and the whole team changed.

[cricket]

He beat him two out of three times in the playoffs. Nuff said.

It's not a one on one game in any way, shape, or form. Not to be insulting, but that's a ludicrous statement. It didn't matter who the Pats QB was for those games; if it was someone else, they would've been 0-3.

[Erasmus Folly]

Having said all I've said, I won't mind Seattle meeting the Pats in the Super Bowl. Wilson vs. Brady. Bring it on.

[rauldc14]

Drives me but in itself that Suh gets to play in this game, much less that he's making plays that are critical in it.

Doesn't deserve to be playing in this one, at all.

[cricket]

That's what I'm rooting for, although Seattle is very scary. I don't know if the Pats would win, but they'd certainly put up a way better showing than the Broncos last year.

[teeter_g]

COME ON LIONS!!!!

[teeter_g]

Stop screwing this up, Lions!

[Erasmus Folly]

Dallas scores!, with the help of some yellow flags.

[Erasmus Folly]

Stop screwing this up, Lions!
It was the refs screwing up - picking up that yellow flag on what was clearly pass interference.

[Camo]

Glad to see the Cowboys progress, even if noone else is :p . It's a great story of Romo's season, from broken back to 12-4 season and 2nd round of the playoffs, still I can't see them getting past Seattle.

[VFN]

Glad to see the Cowboys progress, even if noone else is :p . It's a great story of Romo's season, from broken back to 12-4 season and 2nd round of the playoffs, still I can't see them getting past Seattle.

I like Romo. Glad to see him move on.

[Yoda]

Ditto. I think the desire to turn careers into narratives has given him a bum rap, so I'm happy to see him move on.

I kinda like the Packers, too (they're kinda hard to hate if you're not a fan of one of their division rivals), so I'll be pretty happy either way next week, I guess.

[Yoda]

I like the Steelers QB better, but it seems that he's been a bit of a one man show lately.
I hate that I'm seemingly disagreeing with everything (sorry!), but this is probably less true than it's been at any point in his career. Brown led all receivers in receptions and receiving yardage (the reception total was the second highest in league history), and Bell had over 2,000 yards from scrimmage.

Thank goodness, too, because the defense was terrible this year. But the offense is positively stacked with weapons (there are two young deep threat receivers who made a lot of noise down the stretch), so they could be pretty formidable if they can patch together even a league-average defense, I think.

[VFN]

I kinda like the Packers, too (they're kinda hard to hate if you're not a fan of one of their division rivals), so I'll be pretty happy either way next week, I guess.

Rodgers is a likable guy and throws the ball with more accuracy and zip while on the run then any QB I can remember.

[rauldc14]

I'm the biggest Packer fan there is but damn I don't think anyone is taking down Seattle.

[cricket]

I hate that I'm seemingly disagreeing with everything (sorry!), but this is probably less true than it's been at any point in his career. Brown led all receivers in receptions and receiving yardage (the reception total was the second highest in league history), and Bell had over 2,000 yards from scrimmage.

Thank goodness, too, because the defense was terrible this year. But the offense is positively stacked with weapons (there are two young deep threat receivers who made a lot of noise down the stretch), so they could be pretty formidable if they can patch together even a league-average defense, I think.

You know, I hadn't actually seen any of their games this year. I just noticed he had some monster games.

[Yoda]

Aye; because of those guys. Brown's got 239 receptions and about 3,200 yards the last two years, which is insane. Bell's breakout is more recent; he was so-so last year (rookie season), but exploded this year.

In other words, this year they had the NFL leader in passing yards (tied with Brees), the NFL leader in receiving yards, and the runner-up in rushing yards.

[Yoda]

Meanwhile, all the lines for the next round are high, by normal playoff standards:

Patriots -7 against Ravens.
Seahawks -11 against Panthers.
Packers -6 against Cowboys.
Broncos -7 against Colts.

[VFN]

I think all the favorites will win but hope for upsets outside the Packer game which I don't have a rooting interest in, at least at the moment.

Don't follow the league as close as I did but I think the Patriots will keep Flacco in some sort of check with Revis Island out there, the Hawks will shut down Newton, Colts are susceptible to the run and Luck can be careless, and the Boys could beat the Pack with their running game especially if Rodgers doesn't have a great day.

[Erasmus Folly]

Patriots vs. Ravens.
Seahawks vs. Panthers.
Packers vs. Cowboys.
Broncos vs. Colts

[teeter_g]

What E Folly said. I don't really care about two of the games but I really want to see the Pats and the Cowboys lose.

[Yoda]

For some weird reason I dreamt the Colts won 51-44 over Denver.

[cricket]

Ravens at The Patriots

Some people will say that Baltimore isn't that good because they backed into the playoffs. It doesn't matter. They've been in this situation before and have excelled. They are tough, proud, experienced, and are going into this game confident.

This Patriot team is underestimated because of their recent playoff history. Their division has been on the weaker side the last few years, so they didn't have to be great to make the playoffs. The fact is that the last few Patriot teams were not all that good, even the last Patriot team to make the Super Bowl. This is a different Patriot team.

Baltimore keys to victory

Pressure Brady up the middle with the front four.*

This is a must. The Ravens are subpar as it is in the secondary. If they have to bring linebackers or safeties to put heat on Brady, they're in trouble. Any pressure is good pressure, but if it doesn't come up the middle, Brady can step up and deliver the ball.

Jim Harbough must outcoach Bill Belichick.

**The Patriots have the talent advantage in this game. The Pats can be unpredictable in how they gameplan, but the Ravens need to be ready. If they're not, they need to adjust quickly. If they are down early, they cannot wait until halftime to make adjustments or else it could be too late. I don't think anyone would say that Harbough is a better coach than Belicheck, but for one game, he can be. In this particular game, he must be.

Keep your composure.

The Ravens are known as a chippy team that can sometimes cross the line. If they get down early, they must not get frustrated. If they start drawing personal foul penalties, it's lights out.

New England keys to victory

Match Baltimore's physical play.

This is a must for them. Patriot teams of the past did not have the personnel to physically match up with Baltimore. They do now, but they have to go out and do it.

Don't settle for field goals.

The Patriots need to capitalize on their scoring opportunities. Settling for field goals keeps a lesser team in the game, essentially closing the talent gap.

Key players must stay healthy.

This has been a problem for the Patriot's in recent years. If they get a key player or two injured early in the game, this matchup becomes a lot more even. This is something that is somewhat of a concern against Baltimore, which is a hard hitting team.

I think it's fairly obvious what Baltimore will try to do; rush the passer, establish the running game, and take shots down the field. It's harder to predict with the Patriots. I feel that *the Pats will come out in the shotgun with the no huddle, and throw the ball 45-50 times. They should have a hard time running on Baltimore, so I expect the short passing game to be their running game, neutralizing the devastating pass rush of the Ravens, and controlling the ball. If they succeed with this, it will open up the play action and allow them to take advantage of a vulnerable Baltimore secondary.

All week long, the already confident Ravens have been hearing how they own the Patriots. The Patriots have been hearing this too, and how the Ravens are the last team they wanted to play. When the Patriots are doubted is when they play their best, and I believe that this was actually the best draw for New England. The Patriots are talented, healthy, focused, and at home. If they get the chance, they will lay the hammer down on the Ravens. I think the Pats win this game comfortably, and I think it could get ugly. If they lose, it's a devastating loss, and Baltimore deserves all the credit in the world.

Carolina at Seattle

Carolina would seem to be one of those teams that nobody wants to play against. They're a powerful team that plays a lot of ugly games. Seattle can be sucked into a game like that, but they have far superior talent, and should come out victorious. Carolina could keep it close but I think Seattle pulls away. I think a Seattle victory is highly likely.

Dallas at Green Bay

I'm pretty interested in how this game plays out. The Cowboys would appear to have a good chance with their running game and Rodgers injury, but I just don't trust the Cowboys. I've looked at them as a talented, but flaky team over the last few years. This has got to be the first time that an 8-0 road team has played at an 8-0 home team. This pretty much shows me that the Cowboys are much the same team that they have been. I wouldn't even try to guess what happens in this game.

Indianapolis at Denver

Denver certainly has the edge here but I don't totally discount Indy. It's just a matter of if they're quite ready for primetime. Denver most likely wins this game but nothing would be a big surprise here.

[Erasmus Folly]

For some weird reason I dreamt the Colts won 51-44 over Denver.
Dreams are to key to predictions! Forget the intangibles! :highfive:

[Erasmus Folly]

Patriots vs. Ravens Wow! What a game! 35 to 31!

[cricket]

That was such an awesome game to watch. It was pretty much played in the style I thought it would be, but I didn't expect Baltimore to play so great. Hat's off to them.

[Erasmus Folly]

That maybe Tom Brady's greatest game. To come back 3 times, twice from 14 point deficits and then to go ahead in the 4th quarter to take the lead! Awesome!

[seanc]

:sick: Isn't it time for Brady to go away yet. Sure doesn't feel like I got to enjoy Kelly and Thomas for this many years. Spoiled NE fans.:D

[Yoda]

Well, if Denver takes care of business this afternoon, then we'll have what are pretty much the consensus top two in both conferences playing next week.

[Powdered Water]

Can't say I'm sad to see Dallas go away. If the national media would just let the whole "America's team" thing die, then it wouldn't bug me. But man, they have been feeding us that crap for decades now. Anyway, I did like the revenge angle of playing the Cowboys again. But a hobbled Aaron Rodgers is just as good.

[Kaplan]

There's something wrong with the rules when a guy catches the ball in the vertical positions, tucks the ball, and then goes down to the ground, and it winds up as not a catch. If tucking the ball is not a "football move" then the rule is defeating whatever purpose it was intended for. That's all I'm saying about it.

[Yoda]

Can't say I'm sad to see Dallas go away. If the national media would just let the whole "America's team" thing die, then it wouldn't bug me. But man, they have been feeding us that crap for decades now. Anyway, I did like the revenge angle of playing the Cowboys again. But a hobbled Aaron Rodgers is just as good.
Yeah, Vegas must think that hobble is gonna be significant, too, because they've got you guys favored by about a touchdown.

As a Steeler fan you'd think I'd really hate the Cowboys, but the biggest part of that rivalry was well before my team, so I don't mind them much.

Romo had a good game. Watch that not even make a dent in his playoff reputation, somehow.

[cricket]

I kind of feel bad for Dallas; they've been a talented team, but just can't turn the corner. I think they should bring in a few veterans who are of high character and have championship experience. They don't have to be great players, but rather players who can infuse the team with a different attitude. They just don't seem like they know how to win.

[jiraffejustin]

Man, if Romo just would have caught that ball or sacked Aaron Rodgers on any of those several plays where he just let him slip out of his grasp.

[cricket]

Interesting scenario next week with Seattle a 7.5 favorite and the Pats 7. The books are very vulnerable as at least 80% of the tease money will likely be on both favorites.

[Powdered Water]

If there's a way you can put money on Marshawn Lynch next week. I'd do that.

[rauldc14]

Oh hooray we get to play the Cheathawks again.

I'm not expecting to win, but I'm still bitter about that Fail Mary game. Hopefully we can get back at them for that.

[jiraffejustin]

For the first time in a long time, I am actually proud of a Cowboys' season. So, that's good.

[VFN]

Don't think the Packers could win in Seattle even with a healthy Rodgers so I see doom for them next Sunday. Pats are basically unbeatable at home and they're better than the Colts anyway. Colts only have a shot I think if they play out of their heads. Never seen Manning so ineffective so I have to think he's hurt. Would like to see Colts-Packers but I'm not hopeful.

[Powdered Water]

Oh hooray we get to play the Cheathawks again.

I'm not expecting to win, but I'm still bitter about that Fail Mary game. Hopefully we can get back at them for that.

C'mon man.

[doubledenim]

The NFC championship game will be the earliest game ever played in Seattle. That opening line seems crazy, but I guess a lot depends on the golden calf.

[cricket]

I like The Patriots and Green Bay this week, although as a Pats fan, I'm rooting for Seattle.

[seanc]

Here is something sports fans can get ticked off about with me. Directv decided to not renew their Fox contract in the middle of the playoffs. I missed two games last week and will miss the game I am most looking forward to tomorrow. Three years ago this Sean would have been flippin out. The new Sean is pretty annoyed but no flippin.

[rauldc14]

C'mon man.

The only game I've ever seen where one call DID change the entire outcome of a game.


Over the week I've grown confident that that game is still not sitting well with everyone. We shall seek vengeance.

[cricket]

And by the way, anyone who still thinks spygate meant anything, should read these articles, and there's plenty more out there.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=pittsburgh-steelers&id=4294&src=desktop

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/8347748/8348419

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/597236-new-england-patriots-dick-vermeil-on-spygate

http://www.examiner.com/article/memo-to-new-england-patriots-haters-it-s-time-to-drop-the-whole-spygate-thing

[Yoda]

The defenses included roughly shake down into these categories:

1) "Everyone did it." Conveniently unfalsifiable, and no more compelling than when people say the same thing about steroids in baseball. Also seems to (deliberately?) muddy the distinction between scouting signals and videotaping them.

2) "I've seen worse" (from Vermeil). Okay, there are worst offenses. Who said otherwise? The existence of something worse does not mean something else isn't bad.

3) "We didn't lose because of it" (from Cowher). Yeah, because you lost by 14 points. There were other much closer victories from the same time period, and we really don't have any way to know if those outcomes would've been different. Also, NFL coaches are expected to take responsibility for all losses regardless of circumstance, because excuse-making is considered to be a loser's mentality, whether warranted or not.
There's also a big distinction between "this doesn't invalidate their success in general," which is probably true, and "this means nothing," which is a pretty extreme claim that doesn't seem supported by the evidence.

[cricket]

It was all just about a camera angle. I think I trust the opinions of guys like Jimmy Johnson, Mike Ditka, Bill Parcells, and countless others who actually have been there, more than I trust the opinions of jealous fans.

[Yoda]

Except that isn't the comparison. The people who have "actually been there" (where? Just on any NFL sideline at any point?) aren't actually saying things that contradict the accusations.

Chalking this dissent up to jealousy is kinda cheap, too. I could just as easily chalk your opinions up to sheer homerism, but I'd rather engage the arguments themselves.

[cricket]

But don't you think the people I'm referring to know what they're talking about? Who are you listening to, Hines Ward? Hines Ward hated the Patriots; that's like listening to Ray Lewis lol. And another thing, they got in trouble for videotaping a Jets practice; that didn't have anything to do with any other games. Bringing up spygate at this point is nothing more than sour grapes and taking shots.

[Yoda]

I'm not "listening to" Ward, I mentioned him because you said the Pats weren't even accused of cheating. They were.

Second, if you want to invalidate anything a potential rival says (which would seem to invalidate all criticism, more or less), then you obviously can't cite Belichik's mentor and former assistant coach as evidence, either.

Third, the practice got them in trouble, but it wasn't the extent of the taping. It went back to 2000. I feel like you must know this, so I'm confused as to what point you're trying to make there.

[cricket]

The NFL never used the word cheating; that's a strong word that's not always appropriate. I mean is offsides cheating? How about taunting? Why not, they're against the rules.

Belichick and Parcells were not close after they parted ways.

They did not get into trouble for any kind of practice that went back to anytime. They got in trouble for a specific incident.

[Yoda]

That's simply not true: Goodell specifically said that the punishment was for the totality of the team's videotaping actions (http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2008/05/08/walsh_has_tapes_but_not_of_walkthrough/), and said the tapes dating back to 2000 were "consistent with what the Patriots had admitted they had been doing."

[cricket]

A quote from that article you provided a link for-

" The penalty came after the 2007 season opener in which the Patriots were caught filming the signals of Jets coaches."

That's what they were punished for, nothing else, which came right after a change in the rules.

[Yoda]

That says when the penalty was issued, not what it was for. Goodell specifically says it wasn't just for that one practice:

Goodell explained that the league's penalty against the Patriots early last season was for the totality of the team's videotaping actions, and that coach Bill Belichick acknowledged he had videotaped opposing signals since the start of his Patriots head coaching career.

[Yoda]

Also, it was not "right after a change in the rules." The memo in question was sent out a year earlier, and it was a reminder (http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/09/21/patriots_wont_be_hit_harder/) to teams about the rules.

It's kinda hard not to notice how many of the basic facts are getting tweaked around the margins to make the Pats look better.

[cricket]

Totality would seem to be vague to me.

[Yoda]

Vague? It's explicit.

Even ignoring that it wouldn't make sense to say "totality" about a single event, Goodell said Belichik "acknowledged he had videotaped opposing signals since the start of his Patriots head coaching career," and when he received the tapes dating back to 2000 he said they were "consistent with what the Patriots had admitted they had been doing." The NFL's spokesman was just as clear, saying the tapes were "consistent with what we already knew." And if they knew about other videotaping actions, then by definition those would be part of the totality of them.

This is totally unambiguous, man.

[VFN]

How do you spell Belicheat's genius? B R A D Y and T A Y L O R.

[cricket]

The rule changed right before the Jets game, and it was all just about a camera angle. The whole thing is debatable, but to call them cheaters and discredit what they have accomplished on the field is unreasonable. Stealing signals has been part of the game since forever.

Cowher, who coached the Steelers from 1992-2006, said what the Patriots did happened regularly in the NFL before the league allowed coordinators to relay plays to their quarterback and defensive signal-caller via a helmet radio.

“Stealing someone’s signals was a part of the game and everybody attempted to do that. We had people that always tried to steal signals,” said Cowher, whose 2004 team won 16 consecutive games before losing to the Patriots in the AFC title game. “What happened when we lost that game is they outplayed us. It had nothing to do with stealing signals or cheating or anything else.”

That's just one guy's take who has been around the league for a long time, and there's plenty more. Here's another-

It's merely where you spy from. If the Patriots had taped signals from the press box, a fine would have never been imposed. As Jimmy Johnson said though "it's not possible to tape signals from the press box when the team is on the wrong side." In other words, you can't tape their signals but they can tape yours, and it's 100% legal.

The Patriots are as classy an organization as there is in professional sports. They do an awful lot for a lot of people, and from the top to the bottom, they never disparage their opponents. Spygate is something that was blown way out of proportion and it's unbelievable to me that people still bring it up.

[Camo]

Just started to get into the NFL myself, so my opinion is both irrelevant and uninformed no doubt. Still unless i've missed an earlier part of this conversation Yoda never called the Pats cheaters or said they were undeserving champions, what i think he did say was that Spygate gets swept under the rug just as much as it gets enhanced by haters.

Anyway continue..... :D

[cricket]

It should be swept under the rug, it's yesterday's news and it wasn't a big deal when it was news, except for the talking heads. Teams used to have people with binoculars in the stands trying to get the play call while the game was in progress. That's why the quarterbacks would cover their mouths in the huddle. This kind of thing has gone on forever, it's still going on, and it always will go on. Anybody who thinks their team hasn't been guilty of something like this is kidding themselves. The commissioner wanted to be known as a strict disciplinarian. There was a new rule, and he made an example out of the Patriots. Anything I've ever read or heard from anyone that can offer an unbiased and informed opinion just laughs off the whole thing. The only reasons to bring it up now are sour grapes or to take a cheap shot.

[Erasmus Folly]

SEAHAWKS vs. PACKERS
PATRIOTS vs. COLTS
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/originals/9c/13/86/9c13863428d738a8d0abb5f6fb1d1a36.jpg

[teeter_g]

Good grief I hope the Patsies don't win.

[Kaplan]

Good grief I hope the Patsies don't win.

You and me both.

[Yoda]

The rule changed right before the Jets game, and it was all just about a camera angle.
Are we talking about the same thing? Because as I mentioned earlier, the NFL sent out a league-wide memo a full year before the punishment, and it was a reminder, not a change.

Anything I've ever read or heard from anyone that can offer an unbiased and informed opinion just laughs off the whole thing.
Not true. None of the examples you've provided have "laughed it off."

Johnson, who you quote in support of the Patriots, said that even if other teams have done it, that "doesn't make it right."

Cowher, as you quoted, said everyone tried to steal signals. But you started quoting before the part where he says "They got caught doing it with a camera," making it clear that he wasn't talking about video.

Ditka, who you also cited, simply mentioned another coach who did it, but didn't actually defend the practice (at least, not at the link provided). And he said the coach in question also bugged locker rooms, so it wasn't a flattering comparison.

Vermeil, also cited, said he'd "seen worse." Which also isn't a defense of the practice.

And then there are the people who haven't been mentioned at all, like Don Shula. Shula said Spygate "diminished what they've accomplished." Shula is presumably one of those who has an informed opinion.

[cricket]

Shula has an informed opinion, but he also has a longstanding reputation for extreme bias. A lot of these guys have to be careful about what they say, but there's enough out there to suggest that the Patriots shouldn't be singled out and ridiculed. Every team has been guilty of something, whether it's stealing signals, steroids, tampering, salary cap manipulation or numerous other things. The Patriots won their championships on the field, and they're a classy organization all the way around.

[cricket]

This is a pretty good interview with Belichick that should clear up some misconceptions-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyg9BhqESxU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[rauldc14]

GO PACK GO!!!!

[Erasmus Folly]

Don't worry rauldc, we'll send them packn'!


http://www.barstoolsandchairs.com/images/products/detail/imperial_27-6024.jpg

[Yoda]

Shula has an informed opinion, but he also has a longstanding reputation for extreme bias. A lot of these guys have to be careful about what they say, but there's enough out there to suggest that the Patriots shouldn't be singled out and ridiculed. Every team has been guilty of something, whether it's stealing signals, steroids, tampering, salary cap manipulation or numerous other things. The Patriots won their championships on the field, and they're a classy organization all the way around.
You can choose to believe this, but how could you possibly know? Even the defense you're offering here--that other people have cheated in various ways--doesn't lead to that conclusion. At best, it would lead to "everyone cheats so we don't know if anyone has an advantage," which isn't really the same as winning "on the field."

Take a look at the types of arguments being advanced. There's ad hominem attacks ("sour grapes"/"jealous"), appeals to authority ("here are some coaches that don't think it's a big deal"), selectivity (citing coaches that agree, leaving out ones that don't), or even misrepresenting the facts. This is the kind of stuff you see when people work backwards from a desired conclusion.

Doesn't meant you're wrong, of course! :) It just means we don't know, and you've decided to believe the thing that reflects well on your favorite team. That's okay. But there is ample evidence to at least wonder whether or not the Patriots added to their success by breaking the rules. This sucks for everyone, Pats fans especially, but them's the facts. You can decide not to doubt anything they've achieved, but I don't think you can tell other people they have no cause to.

[Powdered Water]

Yoder will never. Ever. Give the Pats props. And I support that. I think its so funny how you try to be all objective about it though.

[Yoda]

I give them tons of props. They've been an excellent team for a very long time and no sane person would pretend their success is solely attributable to Spygate. But there's a lot of daylight between "Spygate invalidates all they did" and "it meant absolutely nothing."

I do like calling them the Pars, though. Maybe the next time they go 8-8 I can bust that one out.

[cricket]

But you're still using the word "cheating". The NFL never used that word. The Patriots were not sneaky in what they did in any way, and anybody can take the signals. They just used a camera out of convenience. Using a camera was never even a violation until 2006. Saying what they did gave them an advantage over other teams in games is false, and calling it cheating is false. The whole thing was akin to audiotaping notes rather than writing them down. The commissioner didn't handle it well, just like he didn't handle the Ray Rice situation well.

[Powdered Water]

It's so weird being the early game today. I honestly can't remember ever seeing the west coast game going first on championship Sunday. I wonder how that happened.

[cricket]

They probably gave Indianapolis the late time slot due to when they played last weekend.

[rauldc14]

If I remember correctly, it alternates between AFC and NFC every year. I don't think it has anything to do with time zones, since the first game is at 12 PT

[cricket]

If I remember correctly, it alternates between AFC and NFC every year. I don't think it has anything to do with time zones, since the first game is at 12 PT

You are correct, so the networks can alternate getting a prime time game.

[Yoda]

But you're still using the word "cheating". The NFL never used that word.
You kinda don't have to when you punish someone for breaking the rules. And they also didn't say it was "nothing." So if you're suggesting that we treat the NFL's words as inviolable truth, that cuts both ways.

Using a camera was never even a violation until 2006.
Again, this is false. As I've pointed out a few times, the 2006 memo was a reminder, not a rule change.

Saying what they did gave them an advantage over other teams in games is false, and calling it cheating is false.
Again, how could you possibly know this? You have no idea. Neither do I. But I'm not pretending to.

[Yoda]

What do you guys think the Seattle -8 line tells us about Rodgers' health? I'm sure the Superseahawks would be favored either way, being at home and all, but I feel like that'd be 4 or 5 if he weren't so banged up.

[cricket]

You kinda don't have to when you punish someone for breaking the rules. And they also didn't say it was "nothing." So if you're suggesting that we treat the NFL's words as inviolable truth, that cuts both ways.

That's not true, getting penalized or fined for a violation is not the same thing as cheating.


Again, this is false. As I've pointed out a few times, the 2006 memo was a reminder, not a rule change.

Wrong

Again, how could you possibly know this? You have no idea. Neither do I. But I'm not pretending to.

They would have the same information to use whether they wrote it down or videotaped it.

[cricket]

Boy I wish I knew how to use the quote function properly but you can understand the above post, Yoda.

That line move in the Seahawks game would normally be very telling. With over 60% of the action being on the Packers, the reverse line movement would suggest that the sharp players are on Seattle. Because of this, the books would normally be rooting for a Seattle cover and expecting it. However, because of what the lines are in both games, the vast majority of tease action is on the Seahawks and Patriots.

[Yoda]

That's not true, getting penalized or fined for a violation is not the same thing as cheating.
What word would you use, then? And how can you use the NFL's lack of a word to try to absolve the team, while simultaneously disagreeing with the rest of their judgment? It's only true when it helps the Pats, but the rest can be ignored?

Wrong
Er...care to elaborate? :)

They would have the same information to use whether they wrote it down or videotaped it.
Video allows you to go back and catch everything at any time. Writing things down doesn't. It will never as complete, as useful, or as thorough a record as the actual images of what's happening.

My main point, though, is that neither of us has any idea what was on those tapes. They weren't released; they were destroyed. If they were doing more than you're saying, you'd literally have no way to know. But neither the Pats nor the NFL went into specifics about what they saw or what the punishment was for. To be fair, this means that people making accusations can't be too sure of themselves, either. But it also precludes Pats fans from definitively saying otherwise.

[Yoda]

Boy I wish I knew how to use the quote function properly but you can understand the above post, Yoda.
Took me a second, but no worries. :) You can copy the first part (IE: [QUOTE=cricket;1240577]) each time to start a new quote box, and then use [*/quote] (without the asterisk) to end it. Some people just put the replies in bold and keep it all in the one box, though. No big deal either way.

That line move in the Seahawks game would normally be very telling. With over 60% of the action being on the Packers, the reverse line movement would suggest that the sharp players are on Seattle. Because of this, the books would normally be rooting for a Seattle cover and expecting it. However, because of what the lines are in both games, the vast majority of tease action is on the Seahawks and Patriots.
Speaking of which, you said earlier that "as a Pats fan" you were rooting for Seattle. Why's that? I would think they'd be a bigger threat; do you think they matchup worse than Green Bay, or something?

[cricket]

Stealing signals is not rocket science, whether you write them down or videotape them, you still have them, and anybody can steal signals and anybody does and always has.

Cheating draws serious consequences, including suspensions and/or banishment. By your thought process, holding is cheating.

And elaborate on the rule changing in 2006? Elaborate how? You think it didn't, so you should look that up.

[cricket]

I'm rooting for Seattle because I think they're a bigger threat. Just as a general football fan, I like to watch the best. Seattle is a unique team, and I'd be very curious to see how the Pats attack them.

[Yoda]

Stealing signals is not rocket science, whether you write them down or videotape them, you still have them, and anybody can steal signals and anybody does and always has.
...without videotape. Being sharp enough to figure out another team's signals while playing is, indeed, part of the game, because that actually does happen "on the field." Videotape is an advantage because it frees up an assistant coach to do something else. NFL sidelines are hectic and busy, so this is clearly helpful. How helpful, I dunno, but it's not nothing. If it were nothing they wouldn't do it.

Cheating draws serious consequences, including suspensions and/or banishment.
Goodell specifically said that he considered suspension but thought the alternative punishments were more damaging. And I'm pretty sure losing a first round pick is "serious consequences."

And again, you can't just pick and choose which NFL actions are to be treated as immutable and which ones can just be ignored. If you think them not using a word is so significant, then why isn't it significant that they saw the act as a violation? They can't be a trustworthy source when it makes the Pats look good but totally dismissed when they don't.

And elaborate on the rule changing in 2006? Elaborate how? You think it didn't, so you should look that up.
I did; I found nothing, and I obviously can't prove a negative. And I've already provided multiple sources describing the memo as a "reminder."

[Erasmus Folly]

I'm rooting for Seattle because I think they're a bigger threat. Just as a general football fan, I like to watch the best. Seattle is a unique team, and I'd be very curious to see how the Pats attack them.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves Cricket, we both have one more game to play before we meet in what should be an exceptional game. And someone in this forum, who shall remain nameless, referred to my team as the Cheathawks. Untruths do not offend me. Sticks and Stones. :D

[cricket]

Before 2006, using a video camera was not completely prohibited.

As far as videotaping signals or using another method to learn them, you're not talking about something that's difficult, especially with a lot of sharp people involved. It's such a simple thing, videotaping is done simply out of convenience, and it's not something that they ever tried to hide.

You could go on all day about your interpretation of the word cheating. The NFL didn't use the word cheating, and that's all that matters. Again, by the logic you're using, any penalty could be interpreted as cheating. I consider that to be extremely unfair to people who put in an awful lot of honest, hard work.

[cricket]

Let's not get ahead of ourselves Cricket, we both have one more game to play before we meet in what should be an exceptional game. And someone in this forum, who shall remain nameless, referred to my team as the Cheathawks. Untruths do not offend me. Sticks and Stones. :D

You're right, but I'm not gambling or playing, just enjoying.

[Yoda]

Before 2006, using a video camera was not completely prohibited.
Can you provide any evidence to this effect?

As far as videotaping signals or using another method to learn them, you're not talking about something that's difficult, especially with a lot of sharp people involved. It's such a simple thing, videotaping is done simply out of convenience, and it's not something that they ever tried to hide.
I'm not sure how something can be "convenient" during a game without simultaneously being advantageous. Convenient why? Because you don't have to keep track of it. Because you have a complete, perfect record with no effort, compared to an imperfect record that requires effort. All the more if the opposing team's behavior is any way a reflection of this expectation, too.

I'm agnostic on whether or not they were flaunting the rules or actually didn't think what they were doing was wrong. But the fact that they kept doing it after being explicitly warned in that memo is bizarre no matter what side of the debate you're on. There's no angle from which their actions really make sense. unless they literally didn't read the thing.

You could go on all day about your interpretation of the word cheating. The NFL didn't use the word cheating, and that's all that matters.
Why is what the NFL says "all that matters" in this context, but it can be completely brushed off when they disagree with you about the scandal meaning "nothing"? Which is it?

Again, by the logic you're using, any penalty could be interpreted as cheating.
Not at all; the NFL has a specific term for those, and a specific way of punishing them. They didn't penalize Belichik 15 yards, they issued him a maximum fine and revoked a draft pick--which is a huge punishment.

But, as I said, I don't much care if the word "cheating" is applied here or not, and there's really no way to argue about it, since it doesn't have a technical definition in this context.

I consider that to be extremely unfair to people who put in an awful lot of honest, hard work.
I don't see why. It'd be unfair to them to suggest that everything the team accomplished is invalid, but I'm not suggesting that.

[cricket]

One important thing to remember is that the Patriots were never accused of using the signals during the game.

A lot of what we're arguing about is the NFL's fault for being so unclear on the rules. Taping is allowed here but not here, allowed at this time but not at this time, etc. Much of it is technical bs that's hard to make sense from.

[Powdered Water]

Kind of an interesting read on the before and after the supposed spygate. (http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/the-patriots-opponents-wont-let-spygate-die-but-did-it-really-matter/)

[Erasmus Folly]

It has just been reported on Fox that Aaron Rodgers calf will not be fully healed until after the season ends and that Randall Cobb spent last night in a Seattle Hospital with what he thought was an appendicitis attack but will be available to play today.

[Yoda]

Field goals of 18 and 19 yards. That's painful to watch.

[rauldc14]

Damn field goals. It really should be 14-0

[rauldc14]

I got faith still though! Go Pack!

[rauldc14]

Paging PW....paging PW.....

[rauldc14]

I know its early but I'm pumped!!!!!! Go Pack!!!!!!!

[Yoda]

Anecdotally, it seems like Seattle plays a game of attrition that gives them an advantage as the game goes on, so the Pack might need a lead like this going into the second half.

[Yoda]

Another field goal. Four scoring drives and it's still a two possession game.

[rauldc14]

Yes, but we haven't exactly played FANTASTIC either. Still up 16-0

[rauldc14]

If you told me we would be up 16-0 halfway through second, I'd say that'd be best case scenario going in.

[seanc]

You gotta give that last FG back because of that call Raul.;)

[rauldc14]

I get it back for the pick! Whoohooooooooooooo!!!!!!!

[Yoda]

It'll be hillarisad if they have to kick again. Big drive here.

[Yoda]

Never mind, picked off. As early as it is, that could still be game saving.

[rauldc14]

Oy.

[rauldc14]

Take that Seabitches!

[cricket]

I like Russell Wilson; he has a lot of great qualities, but I don't think he is an elite quarterback, and so far he is being exposed. If Seattle continues to be in passing situations, they are in trouble. Wilson is best on first down, and second and third and short.

[doubledenim]

So far the highlight of Seattle's day is Alice in Chains.

[rauldc14]

30 minutes boys! Go Pack!!!

[seanc]

30 minutes boys! Go Pack!!!

I'm rooting for you. Pack-Colts would make me a very happy boy.

[rauldc14]

3 and out!!!!! Now let's have a nice long drive.

[Erasmus Folly]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rauldc14]

Wow.....really?

[VFN]

How do you not play for the fake when the chance of blocking a field goal from that distance is near zero?

[cricket]

Bad play to let that happen in that situation.

[rauldc14]

How do you not play for the fake when the chance of blocking a field goal from that distance is near zero?

I agree, but oh well.

Our defense needs to continue to do well. They haven't given up a point (technically)

[VFN]

Could be a game changer. And I'm getting the feeling it will be. We'll see.

[rauldc14]

Great job defense!

[rauldc14]

Starks! Great run

[VFN]

Big points for the Pack.

[VFN]

Prevent Russell Wilson from running/scrambling and you have an average QB?

[rauldc14]

There's a new legion of boom. Its the Pack D!

[rauldc14]

Cmon Defense! Let's do it again!

[VFN]

Game over.

[Erasmus Folly]

:facepalm:

[rauldc14]

Best defensive performance I've seen all year

[rauldc14]

It was but not anymore. Way too conservative play calling for Packers.

[Erasmus Folly]

:up:

[VFN]

What an absolute joke. This isn't how you win games. I hate this kind of stuff.

[Erasmus Folly]

:up::up::up:

[rauldc14]

Dumb. We gave it away.

[VFN]

I just find using trickery to win lame.

[rauldc14]

5 fricken turnovers we forced too.

[Erasmus Folly]

:highfive: DESTINY!!!!

[VFN]

Up to Rodgers now. May be a blessing they scored so quickly.

[rauldc14]

I'm not sure football is real. This feels scripted.

[Erasmus Folly]

:D:D:D:D:D

[rauldc14]

I'm speechless. I feel like a poor sport but Seattle had no business winning.

[seanc]

What a nightmare. I am sorry Raul.

[rauldc14]

Never been so upset in my life.

[cricket]

I've missed a good chunk of the second half, but from what I did see, it looked like Green Bay became conservative on offense.

[seanc]

Never been so upset in my life.

As someone who had to watch the music city miracle, I feel your pain.:sick:

[cricket]

It was but not anymore. Way too conservative play calling for Packers.

Just saw this

[seanc]

Alright. Get that mojo back in OT.

[VFN]

Well, the Mo is still with Seattle and I'll be surprised if they don't win.

[rauldc14]

I'm having a panic attack.

[cricket]

Glad the Pack hit that FG; the players have played their hearts out but the coaching staff has let them down.

[Erasmus Folly]

???!!!???:shrug:

[Yoda]

I feel pretty bad for Packer fans right now. Here we go...

[rauldc14]

Glad the Pack hit that FG; the players have played their hearts out but the coaching staff has let them down.

I'm just praying for a huge defensive play.

[doubledenim]

Pick 6 incoming

[VFN]

If Seattle plays the Pats in the SB I'll look for a ping pong match to watch instead.

[VFN]

Take away Russel Wilson's speed and you have Andy Dalton. To me it's like he throws a spitter because his stuff isn't good enough on its own.

[cricket]

On a side note, the over/under in this game was 45.

[VFN]

And what an awful nonsensical OT rule.

[cricket]

Sorry Raul, that was a tough one.

Congrats to the Seahawks and their supporters.

[Erasmus Folly]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[doubledenim]

Guess Russell Wilson is awesome again

[VFN]

Well, I'm out. My sympathies to the Pack fans. To me this game was a joke with a fake FG and muffed onsides kick.

[Yoda]

Congrats to the Hawks. Super sorry for the Pack. Pretty sure they played better today, but they lost both literal and metaphoric coin flips at key points.

Field goals from the 1 and 2 yard lines early. That's your game.

[seanc]

I don't know what to say. Something never feels right on a comeback like that. However Green Bay's defense had three chances to come up big and Seattle just cruised down the field. Very tough for Packer fans.

[rauldc14]

It just hurts to know youve played better than your opposition, you know? Man I'm devastated.

[rauldc14]

Once we didn't recover the onside I already knew we lost. Most devastating sports game I've seen.

[Erasmus Folly]

THERE ARE 8 MILLION AMAZING STORIES IN NFL FOOTBALL! THIS HAS BEEN ONE OF THEM!

[Powdered Water]

I almost have no words to describe how I feel right now. I've been a football fan for so long and have seen so many crazy games. Suffered through too many mediocre Seahawks seasons to even mention. To see them yet again do something not only that no other Seahawk team has done but also no team in NFL history just seems perfect to me. I literally can not wait to see what they do next.

[rauldc14]

Well, at least the Packers have a higher draft pick now :shrug:

[jiraffejustin]

I feel pretty bad for Packer fans right now. Here we go...

What about Cowboy fans? :sick:

Our team didn't blow it, but we still have nothing to cheer for.

What in the world was Morgan Burnett thinking when he slid down instead of taking the open field he had?

[rauldc14]

What about Cowboy fans? :sick:

Our team didn't blow it, but we still have nothing to cheer for.

What in the world was Morgan Burnett thinking when he slid down instead of taking the open field he had?

Because, realistically. The game should have basically been over. How much further was he really going? 10 yards?

[jiraffejustin]

Because, realistically. The game should have basically been over. How much further was he really going? 10 yards?

He had room. I don't know how far he could have made it, but he could have given them a better chance to kick a field goal. And there was still five minutes left in the game, which is way too much time to just slide down when you have room to run. It's not like that's the only play that was bad for Green Bay, but it was memorable to me at the time.

[Yoda]

I thought his decision was fine. The odds of him fumbling it right back are way higher than the odds of them losing if he doesn't go down. Defensive players do that all the time, probably because they have little practice protecting the ball.

[rauldc14]

Too be honest with you, I didn't pay much attention to his run after the catch because frankly, I thought that was game over. I was obviously overconfident. I was hungry too.

[jiraffejustin]

Just to be clear, I don't think that's like the game-defining moment or anything like that. It just seemed odd to me at that point in the game.

[rauldc14]

Oh the real game changer was the onside kick obviously. That's recovered and we are having a different conversation now. I won't blame the game on one play, but that's clearly the breaker.

[cricket]

What about Cowboy fans? :sick:

Our team didn't blow it, but we still have nothing to cheer for.

Not true; you can cheer for the Patriots.

[jiraffejustin]

A couple things I thought killed the Packers:

1. The obvious one: Being forced to kick field goals earlier. If those are TDs, they are up 28-0

2. That two-point conversion where Clinton-Dix seemingly didn't even try to break it up.

3. Yeah, that onside-kick

[seanc]

Going into win mode half way through the 4th quarter. It was the offensive equivalent of prevent. I am all for running the clock, but your best player is the QB. Put a team away.

[rauldc14]

I don't know why we thought that was our best way of winning. I don't believe in playing the clock to win anymore.

[rauldc14]

I think our defense took some steps today. I know we blew the last 3 minutes and OT, but Clinton Dix and Hyde looked good.

[seanc]

I know Rodgers wasn't himself but still. It seems whenever teams go away from what they do the best, bad things happen. It was never more than a two score game. You start worrying more about the clock running than the game itself.

[Powdered Water]

Its hard to quantify what this Seattle team is. They are a special group that works so hard. I feel honored to get to watch this in my home town. Hats off to the packers. My goodness... I've never seen anything like that before.

[seanc]

I like Wilson PW but Lynch is making it very hard for me not to dislike your team. I wish Matthews would have taken his head off after that last TD.

[rauldc14]

Seattle had a great season, but I can't help but think of how the Carson Palmer injury got them to where they are. Because Arizona was rolling.

[rauldc14]

I like Wilson, because he was a Badger. The rest of the team not so much.

[Yoda]

Yeah I wanted to see that Arizona showdown, with Palmer. Between that and Manning getting hurt we were deprived of a couple of great matchups.

[rauldc14]

Well, I think Seattle was still a better team then Arizona, but I think Arizona would have kept home field were it not for the injury, which would have drastically changed the playoff landscape.

[cricket]

Patriots seemingly in control going into halftime, but not playing particularly well.

[seanc]

I'm always comfortable if I'm a Patriot but Luck is a second half QB.

[VFN]

Pack made mistakes so it's not like they didn't contribute to their loss, but Seattle got lucky with the onsides (which is cheap football anyway) and the fake field goal was huge. I'm not sure if Seattle out coached the Pack on that play or a defender/s made a mistake but that changed the texture of the game.

[rauldc14]

Seahawks-New England? Yeah I'll gladly work during the Super Bowl.

[Derek Vinyard]

Seattle completely Rock! Go SEAHAWKS

[VFN]

Seahawks-New England? Yeah I'll gladly work during the Super Bowl.

I already said I'll be watching Ping Pong. And if that's not on, maybe a cooking show.

[VFN]

Someone just took a great pic of Russell Wilson after the game.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1940520/crying-asian-man-o.gif

[cricket]

True football fans;)

[Yoda]

Well, there are fans of teams and fans of the game itself, I suppose.

[VFN]

Well, there are fans of teams and fans of the game itself, I suppose.

I think a very small percentage of viewers watch a sporting event for love of the sport. Most have a rooting interest (betting and Fantasy Football inflate football's viewership) or want to see a spectacle such as the Super Bowl, World Cup Finals, etc.

[VFN]

The Colts' luck has run out. Yeah, I just said that. :cool:

[Yoda]

There were only a few AFC teams I wouldn't have rooted for over Seattle in the Super Bowl, and the Pats were one of them. Yay, PW and I get to be allies in two weeks time.