Apologies to the forum's members [Archive]

Guaporense

12-14-14, 09:48 PM

After I decided to leave the forum I wrote that ton of offensive comments in order to force me to not post anymore because I would be scared of people's reactions. :D To put into more clearly, I decided to rant over and make everybody hate me so that I wouldn't desire to post anymore.

That left a bad feeling in my mouth and I reflecting on my past behavior I see that I was extremely immature and disrespectful to the other members over the past two years. As a result to feel better I decided to write this apology post to people here.

One thing about the fights I had with other forum members is that they all were about the same field: I was ranting that people were ignorant about anime, didn't watch it and didn't understand it. Well, of course, if I join a forum with this name obviously I shouldn't expect people here to have such niche interest thus I was an idiot in expecting that people here would be anime buffs like me. So I my apologies about it: I was really stupid in my past behavior.

Another thing I was mad with the forum, well, after being insulted for 18 months, it gets to you (even if initially it did not) and makes you angry. Anger takes over and you lose ability to reason and to be reasonable with people. (obligatory Miyazaki citation) Miyazaki said that the tentacles coming out from the skin of the demon god in Princess Mononoke symbolized that state when hatred takes over and you lose the ability to reason as something comes out of you and takes control. :D I was like that for the past few months. :D Sorry for offending Mark F who is a person that I actually respect by a good deal.

I have lost general interest in movies now. So I wouldn't post very regularly but I plan from time to time to check the forum out.

Frightened Inmate No. 2

12-14-14, 09:56 PM

i reluctantly accept your apology

90sAce

12-14-14, 10:05 PM

You know if you want to leave a forum, you can just change to a new email acct, scramble your password, then delete the email acct to prevent password reset, right?

mark f

12-14-14, 10:10 PM

As far as I'm concerned, it's OK Guap, but work on it, not only for those here but for your own sake. :)

Sexy Celebrity

12-14-14, 10:15 PM

OH, GOOD! As soon as I saw the title of this thread, I thought, I hope that's a new Guaporense thread.

IT IS!

Okay. I have to go read his post now. *waves goodbye*

Guaporense

12-14-14, 10:31 PM

As far as I'm concerned, it's OK Guap, but work on it, not only for those here but for your own sake. :)

I know. I was a completely ass.hole before. Don't worry, I will be nice from now on.

Swan

12-14-14, 10:32 PM

You're a weird dude Guap. But that's okay because I am too. Glad to have you back.

Guaporense

12-14-14, 10:51 PM

I don't really think I am weird. Though the side of my personality that I projected into the forum was my weirdest/angriest. I will be more serious and hence more the real "me" now.

Edit: Though this is the second time I say this.

Naisy

12-14-14, 10:56 PM

So I'm the only one that thinks this is ridiculous?
I chose to be a turd to stop myself from wanting to post because it was easier then not posting? Admittedly I haven't read the terms and conditions of the site but I am pretty sure you are not forced to partake in a particular number of log in's, posts and shouts daily or you forfeit your life. I guess I'm too old now to understand. I understand the apology thing and I respect that but the reasoning surely has to be considered at least a bit silly but then again I expect any "Nazi Pedophile" to be at least be trying someway to be mildly offensive.

Guaporense

12-14-14, 10:59 PM

That's just a comedic title I gave myself. Though I guess I should change that. :D

Changed to my first one: animation buff.

Citizen Rules

12-14-14, 11:00 PM

Sexy Celebrity

12-14-14, 11:05 PM

So I'm the only one that thinks this is ridiculous?

I chose to be a turd to stop myself from wanting to post because it was easier then not posting? Admittedly I haven't read the terms and conditions of the site but I am pretty sure you are not forced to partake in a particular number of log in's, posts and shouts daily or you forfeit your life.

I understand what Guap was trying to do. It's not always easy to stop yourself from doing something. You can't always be like, "I'm gonna STOP smoking cigarettes today!" "I'm gonna stop eating so much since I just became 3,000 lbs!" But if you do something to make it harder to do those things... it just might work and you might not do them anymore. That's why Guap was rude -- so he'd be too embarrassed to come back.

Didn't work, though. Now he's into apologies, it seems.

Guaporense

12-14-14, 11:08 PM

It didn't work indeed. Because I felt bad about it. Anyway, I haven't watched more than a 2 movies over the past 3.5 months so I will not post about movies because I am less interested in them now. But I am just trying to clean it up a little bit.

MovieGal

12-14-14, 11:29 PM

Guaporense,

Twice now I left the forum for a short time because I didnt want to post anymore... neither time did I say anything hateful to anyone here.. and you know, some noticed I was gone and said something... some didnt notice at all... If you want to leave .. just leave.... that way when you come back... no need to apologize.. I never reacted with you but I didnt agree with what I read... so next time.... just leave without posting... that way if you do decide to come back... its not a big deal..

mlaturno

12-14-14, 11:32 PM

This feels maybe a little melodramatic.

cricket

12-14-14, 11:52 PM

Glad you're back Guapo:)

Guaporense

12-15-14, 12:45 AM

This feels maybe a little melodramatic.

I am a melodramatic person.

For example, I believe someone here has said I was insecure about my taste in anime. Well, that's true: when I watched Madoka I felt horrible in a way: after watching it I felt like I was isolating myself from reality, that reality didn't feel real anymore and that those people (the people in my real life) were distant from me as if they were in another world. I wouldn't feel that way if I wasn't profoundly moved by it in a way that no mainstream film moved me: as if I were a different kind of people. When I forced people here to watch it for the Hall of Fame I was depressed by the fact people there did not feel the same about it as I did. I don't really understand why I felt bad about it: I didn't feel bad about loving bands that almost nobody listens too like Kreator.

Kaplan

12-15-14, 12:51 AM

Welcome back, Guap.

jiraffejustin

12-15-14, 12:56 AM

Welcome back, Guapo. I apologize for ever saying anything that upset you. That was never my intentions, it's just in my personality to tease people like that. I know that online and through text my tone is hard to measure, so I understand how what I have said to you could be taken the wrong way. I initially wanted to blame you on not being able to take a joke, which is something I do believe you can work on, but I should also do a better job of knowing how to interact with each person. So, basically what I am saying is that I am sorry for not doing a better job of building a comfort level with you before I decided to tease you.

Guaporense

12-15-14, 01:09 AM

I know you like me. I accept offensive jokes when they are from people I know for a long time. And in the internet is harder to know if you are serious or not so it's harder to know. Also, there is a thing called being fed up: if you joke at me a little about my love for Miyazaki's work, ok, if people joke about it 50 times for a year, it's not ok, it's offensive.

Sexy Celebrity

12-15-14, 01:17 AM

Also, there is a thing called being fed up: if you joke at me a little about my love for Miyazaki's work, ok, if people joke about it 50 times for a year, it's not ok, it's offensive.

Well, you better hope I don't get started on that -- I'll be doing it 50 times a week.

The Gunslinger45

12-15-14, 02:13 AM

Guap you pissed me off with you private message. That being said, you wrote two long messages back apologizing as well as as saying you are sorry in this thread. So I am will bury the hatchet and forgive you. Welcome back.

Mr Minio

12-15-14, 02:46 AM

Once you started you can't simply stop posting on MoFo, now, can you?

mlaturno

12-15-14, 04:26 AM

I am a melodramatic person.

For example, I believe someone here has said I was insecure about my taste in anime. Well, that's true: when I watched Madoka I felt horrible in a way: after watching it I felt like I was isolating myself from reality, that reality didn't feel real anymore and that those people (the people in my real life) were distant from me as if they were in another world. I wouldn't feel that way if I wasn't profoundly moved by it in a way that no mainstream film moved me: as if I were a different kind of people. When I forced people here to watch it for the Hall of Fame I was depressed by the fact people there did not feel the same about it as I did. I don't really understand why I felt bad about it: I didn't feel bad about loving bands that almost nobody listens too like Kreator.

Maybe you need meds.

Gatsby

12-15-14, 04:41 AM

One thing I don't understand... why did you make everyone pissed off when the decision to quit the forum was made by yourself? Sounds like a forceful quitting to me and it was an immature act tbh.

But I'm glad you decided to apologize. Welcome back.

mlaturno

12-15-14, 04:45 AM

I just don't understand why people get so emotional about this stuff. Deciding whether or not to post on an internet forum should not be one of your more trying decisions.

christine

12-15-14, 05:39 AM

Guaporense

12-16-14, 08:04 PM

I also read that you never make real relationships on the internet. Well, that's not actually true I would say because I actually cared about fights on the internet many times (I have fought in many forums over the past 12 years :D, I was banned in several forums as well). I even participated on the founding of a political party via my contacts on the internet.

Sexy Celebrity

12-16-14, 08:09 PM

I just don't understand why people get so emotional about this stuff. Deciding whether or not to post on an internet forum should not be one of your more trying decisions.

Because drama can be found and made everywhere. There's more drama to go around than there is air.

Guaporense

12-16-14, 08:22 PM

Specially this forum which is a very "homely" forum in the sense that it has few people who participate very actively on it. It's rather special in that sense.

rauldc14

12-16-14, 08:22 PM

jal90

12-16-14, 08:29 PM

Nice to see you back in here, Guap. I would ask you to try to normalize things as soon as possible. You made a bad move, you apologized, it's over. Just come in here and participate.

By the way, now that I see you here, sorry for not answering you in MAL. I'll try to fix that soon, but these last weeks I don't have much time and am turning a bit lazy to follow social sites and such.

90sAce

12-16-14, 08:55 PM

mlaturno

12-16-14, 09:14 PM

guap, how old are you?

Sexy Celebrity

12-16-14, 09:15 PM

He claims to be 25. It's in his profile.

Monkeypunch

12-16-14, 09:20 PM

I wasn't here for any of this, but you sound like I did before I got myself straightened out, psychologically. When i first joined, I was...to say i was a mess would be putting it lightly. I got angry a lot, took things personally, and would be the first person to snap in an argument. Thankfully, I wasn't banned. I learned that I suffered from depression, anxiety, and possible PTSD. Since then I've learned to control my temper, be civil and a billion times less dramatic, and I still post here 13 years later. So chin up, maybe see a therapist, and eventually all will be okay, I reckon.

Sexy Celebrity

12-16-14, 09:26 PM

Well this place may not always be so great for your psychological well-being, anyway. You can't think of this place as "perfect" and that everyone else is psychologically better than you. They may not be. This is just a truck stop on the big wide internet. You might need to get away from here for awhile. As you did.

TONGO

12-16-14, 11:01 PM

As if I could hold a tantrum against someone. Its cool man, and way to man up. :up:

Godoggo

12-16-14, 11:07 PM

TMI

No it's not. It drives me crazy when people do that. Some people want to share and others don't. Either is perfectly fine, but Guap is a member of this community and if he wants to share, I want to hear it.

90sAce

12-16-14, 11:09 PM

No it's not. It drives me crazy when people do that. Some people want to share and others don't. Either is perfectly fine, but Guap is a member of this community and if he wants to share, I want to hear it.
Posts like that should be saved for a close friend or a therapist - they're not really appropriate for blurting out in front of a bunch of internet strangers

Godoggo

12-16-14, 11:17 PM

Posts like that should be saved for a close friend or a therapist - they're not really appropriate for blurting out in front of a bunch of internet strangers

There was absolutely nothing inappropriate about that post you highlighted. It wasn't even that deeply personal.

I've gotten way more personal on this site and I'll be the one to decide if it's something appropriate for me to share or not. Well, Yoda could make that decision, but he's never had a problem with us sharing as if we were friends, because some of us are.

90sAce

12-16-14, 11:31 PM

There was absolutely nothing inappropriate about that post you highlighted. It wasn't even that deeply personal.

I've gotten way more personal on this site and I'll be the one to decide if it's something appropriate for me to share or not. Well, Yoda could make that decision, but he's never had a problem with us sharing as if we were friends, because some of us are.
Whether online or in real life it's not the best decision to just start spouting anything personal just so that other people will hear it - just like you wouldn't just walk into a bar or a coffee shop and start ranting about all your personal issues; things like that are better reserved for private conversations with people you actually know who're willing to listen, rather than just "imposed" on people (that just makes you seem like an emotionally needy vampire who just "wants people to hear you talk").

Rule of thumb is don't post anything publicly online that you wouldn't post on a billboard.

Citizen Rules

12-16-14, 11:40 PM

I give Guap credit for having the guts to try and explain how he feels That's what makes a board a community, interaction.

Guaporense

12-16-14, 11:44 PM

90's ace, well, if you are not interested don't read it. Also, I have been interacting with people here for about two years so many are not strangers anymore, like Godoggo, she is not really that stranger to me as you are so you don't understand.

I am explaining why I think I behave in the way I did. Some people might be interested in that, some might not. I have not interacted with you so you are obviously not interested, the same with that guy with the black dude avatar. You both don't understand the situation.

By the way, I lied about being 25. I am 27. Lived and worked in 2 countries, I am big fan of English speaking film and TV, and Japanese speaking film, animation and comics, besides a ton of other things.

Also add that I was depressed in january/february 2014 because I got seasonal depression due to living in a very cold place at a very cold winter after moving from a tropical climate. I am not depressed right now and I was talking about how I felt in the past.

I would finally add that I forced my highschool friends through metal by putting Slayer on the stereo and they didn't quite like it. Same way I forced people here to watch some anime through the hall of fame and some had a similar reaction to it that my highschool mates had relative to Slayer (though some liked it, nobody liked Slayer :bored:). To live is to learn: Slayer is not for everybody and neither is Utena.

mark f

12-17-14, 12:18 AM

I think Ace thinks we're like animated characters who have no depth compared to real actors. He's never been to a site like this where we don't tell others they're wrong for doing, typing or thinking something in front of "strangers". If you stick around long enough, you'll learn that we're a family and not strangers. Of course, it's up to each member to decide if they want to be part of our family. :)

Guaporense

12-17-14, 12:37 AM

90's ace, he/she certainly doesn't have much experience with forums: I was in a forum where one of the members was a transsexual who talked at length about her personal issues. The internet is vast and diverse and there are more personal and more impersonal places/forums.

90sAce

12-17-14, 12:37 AM

I think Ace thinks we're like animated characters who have no depth compared to real actors.

Not all of you guys, just you mark. :rolleyes: Sorry about your sore derriere.

He's never been to a site like this where we don't tell others they're wrong for doing, typing or thinking something in front of "strangers".

It's bad personal advice - posting things that are deep and personal looking for "sympathy" from strangers isn't a good idea for a variety of reasons, plus someone with a grudge might use it to spite a person later.

If you stick around long enough, you'll learn that we're a family and not strangers. Of course, it's up to each member to decide if they want to be part of our family. :)
We who? You and your multiple personalities? - this is about the 5th or 6th bait post you've directed at me completely out of thin air - you might need a therapist or some Zoloft for your stalker obsession, kid

90's ace, he/she certainly doesn't have much experience with forums: I was in a forum where one of the members was a transsexual who talked at length about her personal issues. The internet is vast and diverse and there are more personal and more impersonal places/forums.
I've been on forums before where members with a grudge used personal information posted there to track them down and send them threats of violence, over stuff as trivial as political disagreements.

Sexy Celebrity

12-17-14, 12:47 AM

Godoggo

12-17-14, 12:50 AM

Don't call Mark F. A kid, kid. We are a family and he's probably the most respected member.

You are so ridiculous. He didn't post personal information about where he lived, he posted about how he felt. Are you going to track me down at the corner of that made me angry and I feel sad about that?

Don't tell me how you feel about anything. I'll be able to track you down with my emotional gps. :rolleyes:

90sAce

12-17-14, 12:55 AM

Don't call Mark F. A kid, kid. We are a family and he's probably the most respected member.

what's he respected for? Trolling? Last 5 of his replies to me were drive-by snark - the post above even referenced a conversation which he didn't even participate in, in other words he just silently follows people's comments around the site looking for reasons to be angry and insecure.

You are so ridiculous. He didn't post personal information about where he lived, he posted about how he felt. Are you going to track me down at the corner of that made me angry and I feel sad about that?

Don't tell me how you feel about anything. I'll be able to track you down with my emotional gps. :rolleyes:
Point missed.

Miss Vicky

12-17-14, 12:57 AM

what's he respected for?

Dude's got a near encyclopedic knowledge of film. He's also funny, helpful and insightful.

90sAce

12-17-14, 01:06 AM

Dude's got a near encyclopedic knowledge of film
So apparently knowing a ton about movies gets you a free pass on troll comments? Yikes...

Guaporense

12-17-14, 01:10 AM

I've been on forums before where members with a grudge used personal information posted there to track them down and send them threats of violence, over stuff as trivial as political disagreements.

That's why I lied about my age and I didn't give my date of birth precisely. I haven't given enough personal information that allows someone to track me down. Well, unless it's a hacker who knows IP stuff and can track down location.

Anyway, I don't think I posted anything terribly personal. Just the effect a specific movie/TV series had on me. On a forum about films and TV series.

Guaporense

12-17-14, 01:11 AM

While I don't believe you should be going around parenting people on the internet whom you don't know, such as by telling Guaporense "TMI" .... I do think what you're saying is wise. That people should watch what they say on the internet, because they might not like the fact that they said such things years later.

Indeed. I feel bad about what I said here before. That's one of the reasons I am fixing it now. Just deleting the posts will not fix it.

Miss Vicky

12-17-14, 01:13 AM

So apparently knowing a ton about movies gets you a free pass on troll comments? Yikes...

I've yet to read a troll comment from mark F and I've been here five years.

Godoggo

12-17-14, 01:54 AM

No, I sure didn't miss your point.

I've been on forums before where members with a grudge used personal information posted there to track them down and send them threats of violence, over stuff as trivial as political disagreements.

That's your quote. You said that in response to Guap talking about how people on the internet share personal information in regards to feelings. So once again I will point out to you that I can tell you all about every emotion that I ever felt and you cannot find me with that information.

If I tell you that I live in New York City on the corner of Sesame and Elm in a trash can then you can track me down. We were not talking about that kind of personal information we were talking about personal feelings which you cannot be tracked down by.

Gatsby

12-17-14, 02:39 AM

Hey 90sAce, there is a challenge we would like you to do... go check that out.

christine

12-17-14, 03:42 AM

mlaturno

12-17-14, 04:27 AM

Dude's got a near encyclopedic knowledge of film. He's also funny, helpful and insightful.

And that ass, right?

Wait...

Cobpyth

12-17-14, 04:29 AM

Whether online or in real life it's not the best decision to just start spouting anything personal just so that other people will hear it - just like you wouldn't just walk into a bar or a coffee shop and start ranting about all your personal issues; things like that are better reserved for private conversations with people you actually know who're willing to listen, rather than just "imposed" on people (that just makes you seem like an emotionally needy vampire who just "wants people to hear you talk").

Guap has been a member here for two years and had a difficult period. He's had plenty of interaction with most of us, so he's not really a stranger here. If he felt like he had to explain why he said or did certain things, he should be able to do that.

The core of the MoFo community tends to be pretty close anyway and many people here share personal stories. Who are you to come here and tell people what to share and what not to share? This is a pretty friendly environment (usually) and if you'd have been here long enough, you'd have known that. People can talk to eachother here as acquaintances. There's absolutely nothing odd about that.

We who? You and your multiple personalities? - this is about the 5th or 6th bait post you've directed at me completely out of thin air - you might need a therapist or some Zoloft for your stalker obsession, kid

Why don't you show a little respect, punk? Mark was just stating, just as I am, that many MoFos here are much closer than you'd think. We are a community and after being a member for a while, you can't call certain people strangers anymore. People get to know eachother.

Your aggressive reaction to a simple, inoffensive given like this, shows that you might be the one who has issues.

what's he respected for? Trolling? Last 5 of his replies to me were drive-by snark - the post above even referenced a conversation which he didn't even participate in, in other words he just silently follows people's comments around the site looking for reasons to be angry and insecure.

Euhm, weren't you the one who just stated that everything you write on a public site can be used against you? Well, Mark just used a stupid post you wrote in another thread to cleverly reprove you here. Deal with it and don't be a cry baby about it.

90sAce

12-17-14, 04:37 AM

Guap has been a member here for two years and had a difficult period. He's had plenty of interaction with most of us, so he's not really a stranger here. If he felt like he had to explain why he said or did certain things, he should be able to do that.

The core of the MoFo community tends to be pretty close anyway and many people here share personal stories. Who are you to come here and tell people what to share and what not to share? This is a pretty friendly environment (usually) and if you'd have been here long enough, you'd have known that. People can talk to eachother here as acquaintances. There's absolutely nothing odd about that.

Why don't you show a little respect, punk? Mark was just stating, just as I am, that many MoFos here are much closer than you'd think. We are a community and after being a member for a while, you can't call certain people strangers anymore. People get to know eachother.

Your aggressive reaction to a simple, inoffensive given like this, shows that you might be the one who has issues.

Nope you're not familiar with Mark's posting history, and how when he gets offended he follows members around from thread-to-thread with indirect baiting attempts when he gets mad.

On it's own the post didn't seem that offensive, but as pointed out it's a little game he's been playing off-and-on since I've been here.

Euhm, weren't you the one who just stated that everything you write on a public site can be used against you? Well, Mark just used a stupid post you wrote in another thread to cleverly reprove you here. Deal with it and don't be a cry baby about it.
Except it wasn't a stupid post, it was a well articulated opinion piece . Mark's apparently insecure and offended by others' opinions easily, but doesn't have the balls to argue in the thread - so instead he just follows the members around in other threads with passive-aggressive comments. This wouldn't be the first time (and I'm not first member apparently) he's played this baiting game either.

The Gunslinger45

12-17-14, 04:39 AM

Oh for f**ks sake we are picking fights in a thread where a guy is trying to say he is sorry to people?

People can be such dicks.

Cobpyth

12-17-14, 04:45 AM

Nope you're not familiar with Mark's posting history, and how when he gets offended he follows members around from thread-to-thread with indirect baiting attempts when he gets mad.

On it's own the post didn't seem that offensive, but as pointed out it's a little game he's been playing off-and-on since I've been here.

I'm way more familiar with Mark's posting history than you are. I can't help that you're feeling paranoid or insecure about him correcting you sometimes.

Except it wasn't a stupid post, it was a well articulated opinion piece . Mark's apparently insecure and offended by others' opinions easily, but doesn't have the balls to argue in the thread - so instead he just follows the members around in other threads with passive-aggressive comments. This wouldn't be the first time (and I'm not first member apparently) he's played this baiting game either.

To be honest, I get why he won't argue with you. I've seen you being involved in certain discussions here and you're simply not very good at it. 90% of your arguments usually don't make sense and when someone says something that you can't revoke, you simply ignore him/her and decide to reply to other stuff or move the conversation in a completely different, irrelevant and irrational direction. That doesn't really make for an enrichening debate...

By the way, it was a stupid post (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?p=1220150#post1220150) (I laughed at the fact that you really believe it was a well articulated opinion) and the part Mark pointed out in his previous post here, is one of the most stupid sentences in that post.

Instead of always trying to attack people that point out your flaws, you should start learning from them.

Mr Minio

12-17-14, 04:56 AM

The Gunslinger45

12-17-14, 05:10 AM

I'm in! What about incest, tho?

Oh go watch Game of Thrones and finish yourself off you sick bastard. :p

Zotis

12-17-14, 05:55 AM

I'm confused as to why this is even being debated. I see this kind of thing on forums all the time.

Zotis

12-17-14, 06:22 AM

Well... I drag on pointless debates on the internet because I'm so stubbornly opinionated, egotistical, and arrogant. I just always have to be right and I can't let other people get the last word.

It's tough being human and having flaws...

earlsmoviepicks

12-17-14, 08:57 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU

Godoggo

12-17-14, 09:26 AM

. Mark's apparently insecure and offended by others' opinions easily, but doesn't have the balls to argue in the thread - so instead he just follows the members around in other threads with passive-aggressive comments. This wouldn't be the first time (and I'm not first member apparently) he's played this baiting game either.

You don't have the right to play this card. Especially in this thread. I called you out for your insensitive TMI post when you could have easily just ignored what he was saying and let the rest of us respond who do give a damn about what Guap had to say. Let's not forget why this all happened in the first place. You want to call someone out, call me out.

Go back and read Mark's post. The message in that post, that you are either choosing to ignore or missed entirely, is that we feel like a family and we are a close-knit community that you could become apart of if you chose that route instead of always having to debate and fight every little thing. That doesn't sound like an angry, insecure person to me. You're the one that read it with your ego firmly inflated.

Daniel M

12-17-14, 09:45 AM

http://replygif.net/i/187.gif

Zotis

12-17-14, 09:47 AM

Yeah this did start by you being a dick to Guap for no good reason. Right?

cricket

12-17-14, 10:09 AM

There were a few shots taken at Guapo in both threads, but we've all had times when we could've handled ourselves better. Kicking a person when they're down is cowardly. If anyone had something to say, it would've been Mark, but he's way to classy for that. Guapo just got frustrated; it doesn't mean he's crazy, or needs meds. It's just not a big deal. I'm just glad he's posting again.

The Gunslinger45

12-17-14, 04:52 PM

It is nice to have him back.

donniedarko

12-29-14, 02:51 PM

Welcome back Guap

We who? You and your multiple personalities? - this is about the 5th or 6th bait post you've directed at me completely out of thin air - you might need a therapist or some Zoloft for your stalker obsession, kid

kid
kid

:rotfl::rotfl:
:rolleyes:

Frightened Inmate No. 2

12-29-14, 02:59 PM

you might need a therapist or some Zoloft for your stalker obsession, kid.

actualty, if i recall correctly, mark gave Stalker a 2

The Sci-Fi Slob

12-29-14, 03:06 PM

I appreciate your apology, but I still think Anime is turd. :p

hello101

12-29-14, 03:13 PM

I appreciate your apology, but I still think Anime is turd. :p

I can agree with that. :up:

Tentacle rape, *shivers*.

neiba

12-29-14, 04:57 PM

actualty, if i recall correctly, mark gave Stalker a rating_2

I think I'll pick a fight with mark because of that! It's way more logic, anyway! :p

neiba

12-29-14, 04:58 PM

I'm in! What about incest, tho?

If you have a hot cousin, I don't mind! :D

(mine are all ugly, sorry :rolleyes:)

Guaporense

12-29-14, 07:45 PM

I appreciate your apology, but I still think Anime is turd. :p

Well, one can think French literature is turd. That tells more about that person than about French literature though.

I gave up being angry when someone insults foreign culture. I will also not waste my time trying to convert people here to anime, if you are not interested in the field you will not try to seriously grasp it's many great works.

Swan

12-29-14, 07:48 PM

90sAce is dissing mark f?

Lemme at 'im! I'll smack 'im!

neiba

12-29-14, 07:49 PM

Well, one can think French literature is turd. That tells more about that person than about French literature though.

I gave up being angry when someone insults foreign culture. I will also not waste my time trying to convert people here to anime, if you are not interested in the field you will not try to seriously grasp it's many great works.

Where are you from Guap? :)

The Gunslinger45

12-29-14, 07:51 PM

90sAce is dissing mark f?

Lemme at 'im! I'll smack 'im!

Calm down Scrappy.

Guaporense

12-29-14, 07:56 PM

Where are you from Guap? :)

Brazil.

I noticed that Americans tend to easily dismiss foreign stuff in general. For instance, someone like Sci Fi slob can easily dismiss all of Japanese animation, which is a field as large as American Live action (film and TV combined) as turd. Do you think someone can say that American live action is turd? Well, usually Brazilian communists who hate the US for ideological reasons say that.

Some Americans tend to just dismiss everything that is not American as turd (unconsciously most of the time). Anime is an easy targed because nobody teaches it on schools, it's not automatically well regarded unlike Russian literature, for instance. Most people haven't read anything but they won't say it is turd.

As a rational person, I like what is good and I do not care which medium or country it is from. Anime is an offshoot of manga, manga is the dominant form of fiction in Japan, which was the world's second largest economy for 45 of the last 50 years. It's an enormous medium.

Guaporense

12-29-14, 08:05 PM

neiba

12-29-14, 08:28 PM

Brazil.

I noticed that Americans tend to easily dismiss foreign stuff in general. For instance, someone like Sci Fi slob can easily dismiss all of Japanese animation, which is a field as large as American Live action (film and TV combined) as turd. Do you think someone can say that American live action is turd? Well, usually Brazilian communists who hate the US for ideological reasons say that.

Some Americans tend to just dismiss everything that is not American as turd (unconsciously most of the time). Anime is an easy targed because nobody teaches it on schools, it's not automatically well regarded unlike Russian literature, for instance. Most people haven't read anything but they won't say it is turd.

As a rational person, I like what is good and I do not care which medium or country it is from. Anime is an offshoot of manga, manga is the dominant form of fiction in Japan, which was the world's second largest economy for 45 of the last 50 years. It's an enormous medium.

Nice to have here someone who also speaks Portuguese!!! :D

Well, some of the things you say are actually true! I feel too much distinction between foreign and American cinema sometimes!

But you just need to take it easy and don't take it too much serious! It's only the Internet! :)

Cobpyth

12-29-14, 08:53 PM

Brazil.

I noticed that Americans tend to easily dismiss foreign stuff in general. For instance, someone like Sci Fi slob can easily dismiss all of Japanese animation, which is a field as large as American Live action (film and TV combined) as turd. Do you think someone can say that American live action is turd? Well, usually Brazilian communists who hate the US for ideological reasons say that.

Slob is not an American. He's British. :)

It all depends on the individual, I think. It's not an American, a British or a Brazilian issue. I think it's a global thing. People in general just don't really like to get out of their comfort zone when it comes to films.

There was only one of my (Belgian) friends who wanted to go and watch Tarkovsky's Solaris with me in the theater for instance, while we usually go with a company of six or more when I propose an American film. They don't even lie about the reason. They blandly admit that they're not interested in watching a Russian sci-fi film that tackles serious philosophical themes. It seems overly challenging to them and they're just looking for a short escape from reality for a while in the fashion they're comfortable with.

I don't agree with their perception of cinema at all, but I also don't blame them. They can do whatever they want. It won't ruin my enjoyment. ;)

Guaporense

12-29-14, 08:54 PM

I know but I am rather sensitive. People who are fat don't like when other people say fat people are inferior ugly people. Black people don't like to be discriminated as well.

I get angry when someone disregards a whole MEDIUM as turd and I don't get angry if someone says they disliked Whisper of the Heart. That's OK because it is a single movie, saying the whole medium is cr*p, usually without any knowledge of it, that's another thing.

People on the internet get angry too, and myself made other people angry here and in many other forums.

Guaporense

12-29-14, 08:55 PM

Slob is not an American. He's British. :)

It all depends on the individual, I think. It's not an American, a British or a Brazilian issue. I think it's a global thing. People in general just don't really like to get out of their comfort zone when it comes to films.

There was only one of my (Belgian) friends who wanted to go and watch Tarkovsky's Solaris with me in the theater for instance, while we usually go with a company of six or more when I propose an American film. They don't even lie about the reason. They blandly admit that they're not interested in watching a Russian sci-fi film that tackles serious philosophical themes. It seems overly challenging to them and they're just looking for a short escape from reality for a while in the fashion they're comfortable with.

I don't agree with their perception of cinema at all, but I also don't blame them. They can do whatever they want. It won't ruin my enjoyment. ;)

Well, but they didn't say:

"Wanna watch Solaris? No, I don't like ruskie horseshit."

And Solaris is a art house sci fi film. I never heard a person saying that they disliked whole mediums, like

"Harry Potter and War and Peace? Not interested, I don't like European literature."

European literature is too vast to be characterized. Anime is the same.

Cobpyth

12-29-14, 09:07 PM

mark f

12-29-14, 09:10 PM

You don't have to take it to heart and defend anime against every criticism though, especially one that only took five seconds to type, even if it was serious. :)

seanc

12-29-14, 09:38 PM

Guap you were responsible for me watching just about every Miyazaki movie last year and a handful of other Ghibli films. While some of my misgivings about the medium that you considered misconceptions still hold true, my appreciation for these films grew as I watched more and more. You still probably will not be seeing any of these movies on my favorites list any time soon, but I will be seeking out the more popular stuff that comes down the pipe line and more of the all time greats.

I don't really chime in on these conversations anymore because frankly they always seem to go to places that I don't enjoy or think are productive. However hopefully you can take some solace in the fact that while you may not have made a fan out of me, you did make a viewer out of me. Glad your back, try not to let the man get you down.

Captain Spaulding

12-29-14, 11:43 PM

As a rational person

http://static.tumblr.com/0zx49bw/hRYlxiw4f/brendan_fraser_laugh.gif

christine

12-30-14, 06:20 AM

I gave up being angry when someone insults foreign culture. I will also not waste my time trying to convert people here to anime, if you are not interested in the field you will not try to seriously grasp it's many great works.

Keep with it Guap :)

You've introduced some people here to more anime than they would previously have watched (look what Sean's just said) , so that's a good thing.
You have to accept that people just like different things. I'd love it if my husband would read some decent books and not just trashy crime novels. I think he's missing out but he just wants some mindless entertainment. Frustrates me sometimes but if he's happy what difference does it really make to me?

The Sci-Fi Slob

12-30-14, 10:41 AM

For instance, someone like Sci Fi slob can easily dismiss all of Japanese animationEasily but not entirely. ;)

Zotis

12-30-14, 06:05 PM

I probably wouldn't appreciate Puella Magi Madoka Magica if it weren't for Guaporense.

90sAce

12-30-14, 08:28 PM

90sAce is dissing mark f?

Lemme at 'im! I'll smack 'im!
Hey what's wrong with a guy reminding his inferiors of their place? Gotta keep them in line every now and then you know? :D

Citizen Rules

12-30-14, 08:42 PM

I heard plenty of people saying that they disliked entire mediums. I even heard people saying they simply don't like reading books.

The ignorants are lead by prejudices, wrong, uninformed perceptions or narrow-minded first impressions. You can try helping them overcome those things, but if they're stubborn, you should just leave them be. Maybe the joy of reading a great book or watching a wonderful anime film is just not meant to be for them. ;)
I have posted that I don't like to read books. I didn't say books were stupid. I just don't enjoy reading books these days. I use to read a lot and I even wrote a rough draft of a 300 page novel. Just because a person chooses not to participate in an activity, doesn't mean they have a dim view of that activity.

The Gunslinger45

12-30-14, 08:44 PM

Hey what's wrong with a guy reminding his inferiors of their place? Gotta keep them in line every now and then you know? :D

And then there is the delusional. ;)

90sAce

12-30-14, 08:45 PM

And then there is the delusional. ;)
Sarcasm sometimes goes over people's heads

The Gunslinger45

12-30-14, 08:47 PM

Sarcasm sometimes goes over people's heads

And sometime people miss the joke. :laugh:

Frightened Inmate No. 2

12-30-14, 08:54 PM

good thread 4

jrs

12-30-14, 08:56 PM

And sometime people miss the joke. :laugh:

Happens a lot on here. Although not many get everyone's sense of humor.

Citizen Rules

12-30-14, 08:58 PM

Happens a lot on here. Although not many get everyone's sense of humor.
Very true. Humor is the hardest emotion to insert into the written word. That's why these help;):):D

Cobpyth

12-30-14, 09:01 PM

I have posted that I don't like to read books. I didn't say books were stupid. I just don't enjoy reading books these days. I use to read a lot and I even wrote a rough draft of a 300 page novel. Just because a person chooses not to participate in an activity, doesn't mean they have a dim view of that activity.

You're right. My post lacked nuance. :)

jrs

12-30-14, 09:11 PM

Very true. Humor is the hardest emotion to insert into the written word. That's why these help;):):D

Sometimes that doesn't even help. People sometimes don't even get the emoticons and don't just have any humor period.

90sAce

12-30-14, 09:11 PM

Sometimes that doesn't even help. People sometimes don't even get the emoticons and don't just have any humor period.
Even emoticons are ambiguous at best

Frightened Inmate No. 2

12-30-14, 09:12 PM

let's just all agree to never make jokes on the internet ever again.

jrs

12-30-14, 09:13 PM

Even emoticons are ambiguous at best

Depends. Most emoticons are obvious at what they are trying to say.

The Gunslinger45

12-30-14, 09:14 PM

let's just all agree to never make jokes on the internet ever again.

http://0.tqn.com/d/webtrends/1/S/f/G/-/-/catss.jpeg

Swan

12-30-14, 09:14 PM

This one's not.

:facepalm:

90sAce

12-30-14, 09:19 PM

Well, one can think French literature is turd. That tells more about that person than about French literature though.

Have you ever read French literature?

I gave up being angry when someone insults foreign culture.

Wouldn't that be like saying not liking fast food is "insulting American culture"? When I think of Japanese culture I think of pagodas, and Samurais, and the Japanese empire - not some crappy Saturday morning show, or some smutty cartoon porn with tentacles and big-busted women with 11 year old girls' faces. lol ;)

I will also not waste my time trying to convert people here to anime,

That's good - because all you'll do by that is make people feel like you're getting them to join a cult - you even used the word "convert"

if you are not interested in the field you will not try to seriously grasp it's many great works.
Totally subjective

Godoggo

12-30-14, 09:31 PM

Even emoticons are ambiguous at best

:dizzy::dizzy::dizzy: :dizzy::nope:

90sAce

12-30-14, 09:34 PM

:dizzy::dizzy::dizzy: :dizzy::nope:
:cool:

Guaporense

12-30-14, 11:18 PM

Keep with it Guap :)

You've introduced some people here to more anime than they would previously have watched (look what Sean's just said) , so that's a good thing.
You have to accept that people just like different things. I'd love it if my husband would read some decent books and not just trashy crime novels. I think he's missing out but he just wants some mindless entertainment. Frustrates me sometimes but if he's happy what difference does it really make to me?

Thing is that anime covers the entire spectrum of different tastes. If you don't like anime means you don't like animation in general, same way as not liking European literature means you dislike books. Only if you watched several hundred anime series from all existing genres you would truly understand what I mean.

There is an enormous difference between close mindeness and preference. Thinking of anime as something is already a type of close mindeness. When you watch a Miyazaki film you should think of it as a film, not as an "anime" which is a word made up by americans that doesn't exist in japan.

Essentially, there is no such thing as disliking Japanese animation as there is no such thing as disliking American live action. There is such thing as not understanding the visual language of manga, the cultural differences and other types of prejudice. Being arrogant in dismissing a whole civilization's cultural spectrum, even if you are interested in animation and comics made in the west, that's not something that I can easily ignore.

Saying you are not interested in animation, now that's something that makes sense to me. Takeshi Kitano said he disliked animation and Miyazaki films, specifically. Though this statement was probably due to the fact that Miyazaki is way more famous than he is and is the product of envy from the animation industry which is larger than the film industry in Japan, not because he really is incapable of enjoying the medium.

I heard plenty of people saying that they disliked entire mediums. I even heard people saying they simply don't like reading books.

I don't have any problem if you say you dislike animation. I have a problem if you say you dislike animation made by Japanese people. That is prejudice, not preference. It's like saying that you like books but dislike books written by Europeans. :)

The ignorants are lead by prejudices, wrong, uninformed perceptions or narrow-minded first impressions. You can try helping them overcome those things, but if they're stubborn, you should just leave them be. Maybe the joy of reading a great book or watching a wonderful anime film is just not meant to be for them. ;)

Thing is that they are free to have different interests they are not free to launch insults on things they do not know and are not interested in knowing. If you say that black people are inferior, well, that's something that I have difficulty ignoring.

If you say you don't have interest in animation, dislikes Miyazaki films and is ignorant of anime, well, that's ok. Saying you dislike anime, that's just ignorant nonsense.

I have posted that I don't like to read books. I didn't say books were stupid. I just don't enjoy reading books these days. I use to read a lot and I even wrote a rough draft of a 300 page novel. Just because a person chooses not to participate in an activity, doesn't mean they have a dim view of that activity.

I am starting to lose interest in animation as well. Since I watched a ton over the past few years.

Another very different thing is saying that you like books, but dislike books written by Europeans. Saying you like animation, but dislike animation made by the Japanese. These are, well, "racist" staments in fact.

Guap you were responsible for me watching just about every Miyazaki movie last year and a handful of other Ghibli films. While some of my misgivings about the medium that you considered misconceptions still hold true

Well, if you are not used to asian faces they all look the same, if you are not used to hollywood films they all look the same, if you are not used to anime, it all looks the same.

Because Porco Rosso is a million miles away from Princess Mononoke which is a million miles away from Totoro, which is a million miles away from Perfect Blue, and these are only 4 movies from 2 directors, completely different and being in completely different genres.

my appreciation for these films grew as I watched more and more. You still probably will not be seeing any of these movies on my favorites list any time soon, but I will be seeking out the more popular stuff that comes down the pipe line and more of the all time greats.

I am glad to know that.

Sir Toose

12-31-14, 01:04 AM

I don't have any problem if you say you dislike animation. I have a problem if you say you dislike animation made by Japanese people. That is prejudice, not preference. It's like saying that you like books but dislike books written by Europeans. :)

As much as I hesitate to wade into this thread.... you're not accounting for style.

Animation made by Japanese people is, most often times, stylistically different than, say, something made in the west.

Someone saying "I dislike 'anime' " is akin to them professing a dislike for a certain style.

How you conflate that with racism is beyond me. I like the Japanese just fine (though they aren't a race in and of themselves). In fact, I love most of their art work, have studied both Shinto & Buddhism and have a great respect for their tradition and style and their focus on simplicity. I just don't care for the look of their cartoons. :)

Anyway, my 2 pennies.

Godoggo

12-31-14, 01:08 AM

;D :up:

Sexy Celebrity

12-31-14, 01:10 AM

Oh my God. Sir Toose. Someone from Movie Forums during the Stone Age.

Camo

12-31-14, 01:20 AM

Considering the way I am interacting with some people and the way people here just dismiss whole mediums as turd without knowing anything, I have been made very easily angry/depressed from interacting here.

I am a very sentitive person though, but nobody likes when you are insulted many times.

SFS comment was joke.. he said joke so robot like so Guap poster on Moving Picture forums would understand :p . SFS failed :( .

Sir Toose

12-31-14, 01:44 AM

Oh my God. Sir Toose. Someone from Movie Forums during the Stone Age.

This is one of my Hotel California s... I often check out but I never leave.

Zotis

12-31-14, 02:25 AM

There is an enormous difference between close mindeness and preference. Thinking of anime as something is already a type of close mindeness. When you watch a Miyazaki film you should think of it as a film, not as an "anime" which is a word made up by americans that doesn't exist in japan.

This is a really good point. Just to illustrate it further, Anime is simply Japanese animation. The only limitation on Anime is that it is from that country. Other than there are no stipulations on Anime. It could look like anything. Yes the Japanese have tendencies and trends just like any of us, and when people say they don't like Anime they are usually just thinking of the most obvious trends. But an open minded person will listen to you when you say there is Anime that doesn't follow those trends and may appeal to them. Then they would be willing to give it a shot, or they may even be willing to give the things they previously didn't like another chance in the hopes of eventually coming to appreciate it. A closed minded person just takes longer, and you have to do two things first usually. The first thing is you have to earn their respect so they'll listen to you more. Secondly you have to catch them at a time when their wall isn't up. As soon as they start arguing their wall goes up, and then they aren't even really listening to you. So it's pointless to argue with them at that point. The best thing you can do is hope to make your main point in a concise manner and hope they'll think about it later. But if you say too much then your main point won't get across. I've seen (and I'm guilty too) a few of these anime discussions become fruitless arguments.

I don't have any problem if you say you dislike animation. I have a problem if you say you dislike animation made by Japanese people. That is prejudice, not preference. It's like saying that you like books but dislike books written by Europeans.

I see your point here, and it's a valid one, but perhaps it's not worded the best. It's more like saying "I don't like old movies." The issue isn't really about a country or region, it's about not understanding a huge category and dismissing it based on only the most prevalent examples. Lots of people do it, and it's annoying. But I for one am trying to argue less. I've been doing it for years on forums and I never got anywhere productive with it. I think the best thing is to ignore ignorant people. Try to be helpful when you can, but there's no sense trying to cram things down other people's throats when they've closed their mind to the possibility of being wrong about something or acquiring a new taste.

Camo

12-31-14, 02:52 AM

Excellent post Zotis! Guap is one of my favourite posters, and i'm sure he'd be the first to admit that he takes the Anime talk a bit too far at times. The thing is Guap is clearly a regular poster on MyAnimeList judging by how much he brings it up, and coming from a genre (medium, whatever Guap) specific site expecting the same related feedback isn't just naive but clearly delusional. It's maybe not as extreme but similiar to me joining a Music Forum and only talking about British Grime Music, also jumping into any similar conversation with irrelevant stats as to why my opinion is superior to everyone elses; something Guap has a habit of doing.

Zotis

12-31-14, 03:11 AM

Chardee MacDennis

12-31-14, 03:41 AM

You know if you want to leave a forum, you can just change to a new email acct, scramble your password, then delete the email acct to prevent password reset, right?

I actually thought that's what Guap had done when you arrived on the scene and started rubbing up people the wrong way.

Camo

12-31-14, 03:43 AM

Well, I wouldn't say that Guaporense is perfect, but I don't think he has the superiority complex some people have suggested. At least I think his superiority in Anime is justified, and I haven't really seen him overstep that or make himself out to know more than he actually does. I think he tends to go all out with really lengthy and statistically supported arguments even when it's long past the time to hang up the phone so to speak. But I still get the sense he wants the other person to understand, not that he wants to feel superior. Honestly, I'm really glad he's here though. He is the only person here I think of as a peer when it comes to Anime. He's definitely one of my favorite posters.

Jal90 and one of the mods - Sedai are big Anime fans too. I honestly get what Guap is saying mainly because i'll look to posters like him,you and Jal for Anime recs.

Guap doesn't have a superiority complex he has a language barrier, i'll be the first to admit that Guap is a much better writer in his second language (english) than i am in my first (english). It's still a fact that Guaps natural tongue is Portugese, if me or you were to learn it we would miss the subtle nuances that a native speaker naturally inherits. Still he clearly has "fanned the flames" deliberately, more than once and i'm sure he'd be the first to admit it.

jal90

12-31-14, 05:23 AM

As much as I hesitate to wade into this thread.... you're not accounting for style.

Animation made by Japanese people is, most often times, stylistically different than, say, something made in the west.

Someone saying "I dislike 'anime' " is akin to them professing a dislike for a certain style.

How you conflate that with racism is beyond me. I like the Japanese just fine (though they aren't a race in and of themselves). In fact, I love most of their art work, have studied both Shinto & Buddhism and have a great respect for their tradition and style and their focus on simplicity. I just don't care for the look of their cartoons. :)

Anyway, my 2 pennies.
The problem is that people who say they "dislike anime" are, more often than not, not knowledgeable about the medium at all, and refer to tropes that are very often genre-specific; I guess 90sAce is only flaming as always =) but there are many who actually do believe that anime is all about tentacles, or girls that look like 11-year-olds, or robots, or bright-coloured hairstyles, or long running fights or... whatever. I am the first who wants to admit the existence of another, culturally grounded, meaning for anime that applies to a specific style or a set of tropes that is unique and idiosyncratic enough to be easily associated to Japanese animation. But how many people actually define this concept well enough to have a reasonable point in there, not clouded by genre-specific considerations or an exposition that is too limited?

90sAce

12-31-14, 05:28 AM

The problem is that people who say they "dislike anime" are, more often than not, not knowledgeable about the medium at all, and refer to tropes that are very often genre-specific; I guess 90sAce is only flaming as always =) but there are many who actually do believe that anime is all about tentacles, or girls that look like 11-year-olds, or robots, or bright-coloured hairstyles, or long running fights or... whatever. I am the first who wants to admit the existence of another, culturally grounded, meaning for anime that applies to a specific style or a set of tropes that is unique and idiosyncratic enough to be easily associated to Japanese animation. But how many people actually define this concept well enough to have a reasonable point in there, not clouded by genre-specific considerations or an exposition that is too limited?
I was just giving some hypothetical reasons why people might not like it, which have nothing to do with some 'secret racist conspiracy'. Plus Americans and non-Japanese can make "anime" as well - it refers to the style of animation, not the nationality of the artist.

For example, often adult female characters will have a face which more resembles a pre-teen girl, even when the character is a sex symbol in the show - which is creepy - that isn't just a 'stereotype' either, it's a trend.

90sAce

12-31-14, 05:31 AM

I actually thought that's what Guap had done when you arrived on the scene and started rubbing up people the wrong way.
I didn't even know who Guap is until this thread

Honestly I'm not worried about rubbing people the wrong way anymore if they're going to react hyper-sensitively, IMO this is an open forum for strangers to rant and blog and if people are so sensitive to the opinions of strangers that shows way to much emotional investment in their preferences.

Or if the forum is really more of just a club for a small 'clique' of friends (which is the vibe I've been getting lately), then it should probably just shut down public registration.

jal90

12-31-14, 05:53 AM

I was just giving some hypothetical reasons why people might not like it, which have nothing to do with some 'secret racist conspiracy'.

For example, often adult female characters will have a face which more resembles a pre-teen girl, even when the character is a sex symbol in the show - which is creepy - that isn't just a 'stereotype' either, it's a trend.
It is both. A commercial trend (with unclear origins though) and a stereotype of beauty that I assume has cultural grounds -not so much on pedophilic undertones but on the appreciation for innocent looks; it's not any different from the kind of beauty people appreciate in actresses like Ellen Page, Audrey Hepburn, Shirley MacLaine, Audrey Tautou or Léa Seydoux- and so is used often.

Not sure why you quoted my post with that allegation, but just in case, I didn't adscribe you to any "secret racist conspiracy", I only assumed that you weren't very serious in your post :), but your examples did hit the nail on common misjudgements and generalizations, and so, they served to the point I was trying to make.

Godoggo

12-31-14, 06:02 AM

No, it probably shouldn't. Every year we get an influx of new members that become such an integral part of the community that it's hard to imagine the site without them. They quickly make friends and become apart of things.

If that hasn't been your experience here I can definitely tell you it has nothing to do with this forum being unwelcoming to new members.

Gatsby

12-31-14, 06:16 AM

I didn't even know who Guap is until this thread

Honestly I'm not worried about rubbing people the wrong way anymore if they're going to react hyper-sensitively, IMO this is an open forum for strangers to rant and blog and if people are so sensitive to the opinions of strangers that shows way to much emotional investment in their preferences.

Or if the forum is really more of just a club for a small 'clique' of friends (which is the vibe I've been getting lately), then it should probably just shut down public registration.

When a forum receives a feeling of a small group a friends it means its a good one filled with good communtiy spirit and a freindly attitude. The reason why you feel like it's something wrong is because simply can't fit in.

This community of ours is open to various opinions and rants, and that's the main reason why the ban-saber hasn't struck you yet. Ironically, you're shouting out for a freedom of opinion when the person who was the strongest attitude of the exact opposite of that is you. It's obvious that the first person who lit the flames isn't someone else.

Cmon 90sAce, I can tell you're quite a smart guy judging from posts, why use those skills to fight a pointless battle? The way I see it, you're continuation of constant arguing with others is giving you less and less profit day by day.

Guap is actually very similar to you, he often has a different opinion for things and isn't afraid to shout it out loud combined with a talent for raging lol. Yet he is loved by various members of the community because he's a great guy overall even if he's the reason for a lot of wars.

I do hope you change for the better. :)

90sAce

12-31-14, 07:18 AM

It is both. A commercial trend (with unclear origins though) and a stereotype of beauty that I assume has cultural grounds -not so much on pedophilic undertones but on the appreciation for innocent looks; it's not any different from the kind of beauty people appreciate in actresses like Ellen Page, Audrey Hepburn, Shirley MacLaine, Audrey Tautou or Léa Seydoux- and so is used often.

Not sure why you quoted my post with that allegation, but just in case, I didn't adscribe you to any "secret racist conspiracy", I only assumed that you weren't very serious in your post :), but your examples did hit the nail on common misjudgements and generalizations, and so, they served to the point I was trying to make.
I wasn't being very serious overall, but that is a serious reason that some people might have for disliking it - and I'd say it's quite different than those actresses. An 'innocent look' is quite a different matter to me.

jal90

12-31-14, 07:35 AM

I wasn't being very serious overall, but that is a serious reason that some people might have for disliking it - and I'd say it's quite different than those actresses. An 'innocent look' is quite a different matter to me.
In what sense, would you say? The "cute" kind of beauty is based on this, no matter if it's animated or represented in a real person.

neiba

12-31-14, 07:51 AM

Have you ever read French literature?

I believe he was making a point, he was not actually saying French literature is turd.

Wouldn't that be like saying not liking fast food is "insulting American culture"? When I think of Japanese culture I think of pagodas, and Samurais, and the Japanese empire - not some crappy Saturday morning show, or some smutty cartoon porn with tentacles and big-busted women with 11 year old girls' faces. lol ;)

What??? oO Why would you mix anime with tentacle porn?
And Japanese culture is so much more than pagodas and samurais.
What I believe Guap is trying to say is that anime is inserted in their culture, like it or not, and it is a very important social practice which reflects a lot of their way of thinking and being as a civilization! That is beyond only style, it's also about content!
Now, I'm not an expert in anime. Except Dragon Ball (which was the most important TV Show of my childhood) I've only seen 3 Myazaki films. I wouldn't dream to say they're all the same and that I don't like anime just because of my experience.
I also didn't know how big was the dimension of anime so Guap's arguments have made me learn something, though I believe he shouldn't be so extreme about it, as I have already said to him. But those comparisons between anime and tentacle porn are exaclty what drive him mad, I think.

Zotis

12-31-14, 08:33 AM

The reason Anime characters have huge eyes is because Japan is obsessed with Western culture and it's an exageration of our bigger eyes. Have you ever noticed how most anime characters are caucasian even though their stories and backgrounds reveal them to be Japanese? Like Sailor Moon for example.

When I first got into Anime I all but shunned anything that was overly cutesy or had huge eyes. Gradually over time I started to enjoy some cutesy big eyes anime, but I still prefer more realistic portrayals over stylistic portrayals.

Cobpyth

12-31-14, 08:38 AM

http://media2.onsugar.com/files/2013/11/18/921/n/24155406/e0fe8e2d10b7cc39_7909ff5c1a73939e_main.xxxlarge/i/Cool-App-Alert-Frozen-Storybook-Deluxe.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Jb0RIpiNPY4/UsF_jnWjIxI/AAAAAAAADpQ/GsgGAwfs088/w426-h245/tangled.jpg

Modern american animation also often features big eyes. It's easier to transfer emotions through bigger eyes and that's why it's such a popular style, I think.

jal90

12-31-14, 08:41 AM

I admit I don't have much knowledge about that, but I have read that the big-eyed traits in anime are derived from the character designs of Osamu Tezuka, and that these are based on the drawing styles Disney had at the time.

Zotis

12-31-14, 09:26 AM

Manga back then was drawn in typical American styles. They didn't have the same kind of big eyes that anime does now. Their own style developed gradually, but the influence of Western culture on their anime and live-action film was very heavy. You can see in old 40's Japanese live action movies how 'Hollywood' most of them are in style. I don't know about all of the nuances over the years as various anime styles developed, but there were many different styles developing at the same time. On the one hand you had Tezuka's classic cartoon style which influenced a lot of other artists, but there was also a gradual divergence from the way it was done in the West. It's true that Disney did the big eyes first, but it's also because of their infatuation with the West that they chose to adopt that style. Tezuka wasn't the first manga artist, and other styles from that era are virtually identical to other Western comics.

Yoda

12-31-14, 09:40 AM

The problem is that people who say they "dislike anime" are, more often than not, not knowledgeable about the medium at all, and refer to tropes that are very often genre-specific
This is where things get tricky--people say that anime is not really a genre, because to others it's just "animation," but then they say that the things they dislike about anime are genre-specific. I think the important thing is that, when someone says "anime," that both you and they know what they're referring to in that context. And in the context of these discussions it pretty much always means those genre-specific things.

So if someone is upset when they say they like anime, isn't that just a fundamental misunderstanding of what they're saying? There's no reason to take offense because not all Japanese animation is like that, because you know the animation that is like that is what they're actually saying they don't like.

Zotis

12-31-14, 09:48 AM

A good point Yoda. I'll say this though in contrast, the genre-specific comment was referring to specific genres within Anime. Often people who say they dislike Anime have only been exposed to a few of the more popular genres that tend to have huge eyes and exaggerated cuteness. But the point is that there are many genres within Anime that don't have those trends that people are saying they dislike Anime for.

Other than that I completely agree with you. 9 times out of 10 arguments are the result of misunderstanding, and more misunderstanding ensues once people put up mental barriers and start nit picking at choice of words and semantics. It's never a good idea to reply right away to a heated post. We should always take time to reflect, and focus on the heart of issues rather than tangents. Straw Man arguments appear when someone stops listening to the other person, takes their words out of context, and interprets them literalistically.

seanc

12-31-14, 11:37 AM

Yoda

12-31-14, 11:44 AM

I think we can (hopefully) all agree that this is actually a really tricky problem in general. When someone doesn't watch a movie because they don't think it's the kind of thing they would like, that's not really right or wrong, inherently. It's only right or wrong if it happens too much or too little.

On one hand, if they had to watch everything before judging it, they'd watch a lot of stuff they hated and not enjoy themselves. They know their tastes and it's reasonable to want to watch things that suit those tastes. On the other hand, it's a certainty that they will miss out on things they would love if they don't sometimes watch things they don't expect to love--because nobody knows themselves (or the scope of the art out there) well enough to be able to say that and always be right. Right now, every single one of us has movies they would expect to hate but would actually love. The calculus is in deciding how often you need to be wrong to endure all the times you think you'll dislike something and you end up being right.

That's probably why this argument keeps going: because both sides have a real point. It's probably true that most people who dislike anime would like certain examples of it, or not dislike it as much if they explored it more, etc. It's also probably true that most of them would still dislike most of it.

Sir Toose

12-31-14, 11:55 AM

Or if the forum is really more of just a club for a small 'clique' of friends (which is the vibe I've been getting lately), then it should probably just shut down public registration.

I thought that once (now over a decade ago). I was wrong, so are you. :)

Actually, this is why, again many moons ago, I started the "Grill a MoFo" threads. People who take part in those seem to stick as we get to see them naked (metaphorically of course).

Seriously though, stick around, that feeling wears off.

Sedai

12-31-14, 12:28 PM

Or if the forum is really more of just a club for a small 'clique' of friends (which is the vibe I've been getting lately), then it should probably just shut down public registration.

I doubt the number ONE movie forum on Google's SEO is a private clique of friends. We just wouldn't get enough traffic, hits, and activity to be where we are today . I have seen literally thousands of members come and go, and various sets of active regulars come and go, as well - that's just the nature of a forum in general, or at least, that is my perception after working on one for 11 years. So no, we won't be shutting down public registration due to the occasional member that gets fired up over a difference of opinion. If your contention is that a group of people that come together as strangers with a common interest should remain strangers forever after, I am thinking you haven't been a big part of many social groups in your time on this here Earth. people will either adapt or move on, and we will still be here either way.

Captain Spaulding

12-31-14, 12:34 PM

I don't watch anime because I was once raped by a tentacle and it brings back too many bad memories.

90sAce

12-31-14, 01:57 PM

I doubt the number ONE movie forum on Google's SEO is a private clique of friends. We just wouldn't get enough traffic, hits, and activity to be where we are today . I have seen literally thousands of members come and go, and various sets of active regulars come and go, as well - that's just the nature of a forum in general, or at least, that is my perception after working on one for 11 years. So no, we won't be shutting down public registration due to the occasional member that gets fired up over a difference of opinion. If your contention is that a group of people that come together as strangers with a common interest should remain strangers forever after, I am thinking you haven't been a big part of many social groups in your time on this here Earth. people will either adapt or move on, and we will still be here either way.
Not at all - I just don't think of a forum as a social group. I think of it as an open venue to rant and argue controversial topics which people can chose to "tune into" or not - more like the equivalent of having your own radio show to talk and let people who are interested listen.

My impression since I've been here is that most of the active members have the same tastes and opinions, and that debating or discussing controversial topics at all is frowned upon and viewed as disruption - so that makes the active community on the forum seem more like a small group of friends getting together to chit-chat, than a typical forum (more like a private FB group).

I've got no problem with a forum having it's own "cliques" - but if the whole forum is more of a social club than a public venue then that turns me off - the end result is that anyone here to debate or post strong opinions against the 'consensus' will end up not being welcome even if not outright banned.

And despite being number one on Google, forums like IMDB are much more active and get hundreds of posts per day (whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is a matter of opinion; IMDB is full of much more trolling and stupidity for example).

Miss Vicky

12-31-14, 02:07 PM

90sAce

12-31-14, 02:40 PM

Internet forums are absolutely social groups. Any forum worth a damn is going to be made up of a core group of active people who've known each other for quite awhile and respect each other's tastes and opinions and then a group of others who are new or are casual members who read and post less frequently. All of the forums I've been a part of that have lasted any significant time have been this way. They're communities, not talk radio shows.

The most active forums on the internet (Youtube, IMDB, Bodybuilding.com) defintely lean way more toward being a large crowd of strangers who get together to share opinions and vent in a not-overly-personal way.

In fact that's what the original "Roman forum" was (which is where internet forums got their name from),

http://www.wikiwand.com/en/Roman_Forum

It was for centuries the center of Roman public life: the site of triumphal processions and elections; the venue for public speeches, criminal trials, and gladiatorial matches; and the nucleus of commercial affairs.

Again if forums have their own sub-groups of friends there's nothing wrong with that at all; but I always thought the main purpose of a forum was to post controversial subjects and have debates - and that the social networking beyond a 'strangers' level was just a benefit.

And you are very much welcome here as is anyone who isn't just here to spam. We like to have people with differing opinions, despite what you might think, as it keeps the place interesting. But you can't come in here with a combative attitude and then complain when people step up to fight you.
My problem is that I've seen too many defensive reactions simply to having contrary views, not just against me but others as well - even if it wasn't a personal attack at all (which is what my main beef with Mark was to begin with - and while Yoda thought my tone was condescending, I don't feel it was out of the ordinary enough to justify some of the defensive reactions I've seen; the immediate defensiveness seems a lot stronger when certain views on film, religion, politics, etc are brought up than on others.

Godoggo

12-31-14, 02:42 PM

Not at all - I just don't think of a forum as a social group. I think of it as an open venue to rant and argue controversial topics which people can chose to "tune into" or not - more like the equivalent of having your own radio show to talk and let people who are interested listen.

My impression since I've been here is that most of the active members have the same tastes and opinions, and that debating or discussing controversial topics at all is frowned upon and viewed as disruption - so that makes the active community on the forum seem more like a small group of friends getting together to chit-chat, than a typical forum (more like a private FB group).

I've got no problem with a forum having it's own "cliques" - but if the whole forum is more of a social club than a public venue then that turns me off - the end result is that anyone here to debate or post strong opinions against the 'consensus' will end up not being welcome even if not outright banned.

And despite being number one on Google, forums like IMDB are much more active and get hundreds of posts per day (whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is a matter of opinion; IMDB is full of much more trolling and stupidity for example).

The purpose of a forum is to bring people together to discuss certain topics. It's why I need to be on three different types of forums, because I have three very different types of subjects I want to learn more about and in one case both learn from and educate people on. If some of those forums allow controversial subjects to be discussed, that is secondary. The main topic is something else entirely. This isn't a personal viewpoint or debate forum.

There is disagreement and debate all the time here. There is a wide range of tastes and we are all very different people. Most of us have respect for each other and that is why we are able to interact with each other the way we do.

You are projecting your personal experience with the site as to how the site actually is and they are two very different things. Your experience is very a typical.

I don't have patience for the person that constantly argues "just because". For someone who needs to voice their viewpoint all the time and treat the forum like their own radio show, I have no idea what your views actually are. It starts to appear more like attention seeking behavior because I can't help but notice how many threads you've (not the topic) become the focus of.

There is a difference between having a strong voice and an opinionated nature and just being annoyingly argumentative for no reason and disrupting every thread. If you where making strong points about the topic at hand and inciting good conversation then it would be a different story, but that isn't the case.

Miss Vicky

12-31-14, 03:31 PM

The most active forums on the internet (Youtube, IMDB, Bodybuilding.com) defintely lean way more toward being a large crowd of strangers who get together to share opinions and vent in a not-overly-personal way.

Apparently you didn't read the "worth a damn" part of that sentence.

Sexy Celebrity

12-31-14, 06:50 PM

I don't watch anime because I was once raped by a tentacle and it brings back too many bad memories.

*SIGH*

How many times do I have to tell you I'm sorry before you'll get over it?!

Nostromo87

12-31-14, 07:54 PM

The most active forums on the internet defintely lean way more toward being a large crowd of strangers who get together to share opinions and vent in a not-overly-personal way.

This is what makes MovieForums appealing, i think. There are plenty of strangers to deal with in every day life. And even some good friends, family, etc, don't necessarily want to talk about movies a whole lot and communicate how we do on here. IMDb, YouTube, etc, are generally terrible when it comes to actually discussing anything.

MovieForums is one of the easiest and most fun places to get involved with, really. Still remember when i discovered this place and did a lot of reading around before joining and feeling like i'd discovered a goldmine that was everything i was looking for. Finding threads like the Millenium Countdown, Pike's Peak Picks, happening upon posts by an old user named The Mighty Celestial who i never got to interact with. Look him up, his stuff is great. Along with many other cool threads and creative activity, it is mindblowing and so very cool, to me

jal90

12-31-14, 10:42 PM

This is where things get tricky--people say that anime is not really a genre, because to others it's just "animation," but then they say that the things they dislike about anime are genre-specific. I think the important thing is that, when someone says "anime," that both you and they know what they're referring to in that context. And in the context of these discussions it pretty much always means those genre-specific things.

So if someone is upset when they say they like anime, isn't that just a fundamental misunderstanding of what they're saying? There's no reason to take offense because not all Japanese animation is like that, because you know the animation that is like that is what they're actually saying they don't like.
When I talk about genre-specific, I mean it as part of a thematic recurrence associated to a narrative purpose. Comedy has jokes, horror has creepy monsters, mecha (in case of anime) has robots... All these thematic recurrences are part of specific contexts which is what I would call genres.

Now, it's true that it's almost impossible to grasp the level of knowledge necessary to fully understand the variety of a specific medium; but to a point it's a matter of common sense, and if there are robots in the show it must be because it specifically includes them in its story and not as an intrinsic part of the Japanese animated format.

It's not about racism, but it is about denying a potentiality for no further reason than very limited experience. To a point it's more about attitude than it is about factual knowledge.

Captain Spaulding

01-01-15, 02:49 AM

It's why I need to be on three different types of forums

:eek::(:bawling:

You're cheating on us!?! I thought this was a monogamous forum!

Godoggo

01-01-15, 03:34 AM

:eek::(:bawling:

You're cheating on us!?! I thought this was a monogamous forum!

I've actually been cheating the whole time. I've been on the dog training one longer than this one. That one is really serious though. It's not a fun hangout place. I generally check in 20 minutes a day answer a question or two and leave it at that. The art forum is new, but it offers free classes and I'm not turning free down. :p

Sir Toose

01-03-15, 12:06 AM

The problem is ...

Fair points, all. The question perhaps becomes, then, whether random misunderstanding of the genre by many really should have any impact on whether or not those who enjoy it can continue to do so.

I'd say ignore those who dismiss it out of hand and continue enjoying it for yourself.

My own personal whipping boy is the horror genre. Many don't understand it or see the appeal in it. To me, much of it is high art. To each his/her own.

Blastphamy

01-03-15, 12:14 AM

I've only been on this forum for a few hours but there's certainly a tight-knit atmosphere going about but that's what keeps forums from falling victim to trolls, like IMDB recently have.

It's like an open organisation and as long as you behave yourself, you'll fit right in. By the way, I don't mean no arguing, debating is fine, but do it in constructive manner with no ad-hominem or jabs thrown in.

Miss Vicky

01-03-15, 12:15 AM

I've only been on this forum for a few hours.

Welcome to MoFo!

teeter_g

01-03-15, 12:20 AM

Welcome back Guap. Just for future reference, I am hardly ever serious.

Sir Toose

01-03-15, 12:22 AM

Or if the forum is really more of just a club for a small 'clique' of friends (which is the vibe I've been getting lately), then it should probably just shut down public registration.

Now that I've been back long enough to catch up on some threads etc. I can see why you're having trouble.

Perhaps a bit of introspection is in order.

Gatsby

01-03-15, 12:22 AM

Ad-hominems and jabs are where the fun comes from! :p

Just know that whenever we're doing stuff like that its usually a joke. But when its not we take care of it.

Blastphamy

01-03-15, 12:25 AM

Ad-hominem are bad, jokes are good. I was talking to a guy called honeykid earlier, I hope he caught that our conversation was in the latter type. If not, may God have mercy on my soul. :eek:

honeykid

01-03-15, 02:10 AM

Yeah, we're cool. :)

Guaporense

01-06-15, 12:51 PM

I would like to add that there seems to be this dominant thought around here that Anime comes with a stigma that doesn't apply to other aspects of film. Look at some of the conversations around here that center around Hollywood Blockbusters, Arthouse, 80's Action, or any number of specific directors. The list could go on and on. What people are saying is these films have fundamental characteristics that don't necessarily appeal to them. They are not being racist or unreasonable. Anime certainly has some fundamental characteristics that apply to this argument. Even the people here that love Anime, who tend to get upset with people when they dismiss Anime for general reasons, and then go on to talk about Anime in broad strokes.

The only thing Japanese animation has in general are Japanese cultural sensibilities. The only thing that American live action has in general are American cultural sensibilities.

Do you think American live action is a genre? If you don't you cannot use the word to describe anime.

When I say I don't like horror, I am generalizing. However my generalizations have proven to be true to my sensibilities. Have there been exceptions, certainly, but they are few and far between so I don't bother watching a dozen movies a year that don't appeal to me.

What do you think of horror is a genre of American live action (of course 99% of all horror films and TV you know are American live action films and TV).

There is a huge number of horror manga and substantial number of horror anime titles.

Now the anime fans will tell me that anime is not a genre. In a very real sense that is correct. However most everyone treats it that way

No they do not. In Brasil people have a bit different attitude regarding anime in comparison to the US. In Brasil anime is more well regarded by young people, unlike stuff such as Star Wars, which is regarded as something for nerdy effeminates.

Most Americans (who are 4.5% of the world's population, not 100% as some people appear to think) think of it as a genre because they are the ones who don't know anything about it. When you don't know much about something, like thinking Indian movies are all about dancing, it looks homogeneous, when you know it in greater depth, all the differences are apparent.

In Japan, Korea, China and other asian countries, manga is called comics, anime is called animation and are regarded as such.

and that is because there are certain aspects of the medium that can be applied to most of the movies made in this style.Google anime, look for anime on your streaming site. Everyone knows what your referring to.

No there are not. If you think they all look the same that`s because you don't notice the differences because you have watched to little of it. Like Indian movies look the same for Westerners.

To say Only Yesterday and DragonBall Z are the in same genre is to admit to be blind and deaf. It's like saying The Tree of Life and Friends are in the same genre, American live action, the genre.

There are even books call How To Draw Anime.

No, there are books called how to drawn manga. The drawing style you think as "anime style" is a modern variation of early Tezuka's manga drawing style, which is the most popular style but not the only one.

You might say this is because it is a medium instead of a genre. Fine, you will get no argument from me, but this is just splitting hairs. If your an anime fan it is because there are things about the medium that appeal to you.

Of course, I like ANIMATION as a means of telling stories or making experimental films. I am not restricted, however, to western animation, which is a very small part of world animation and 90% of all animation not made for children is made in Japan.

I envy the fans of live action film and TV who can watch movies and TV made all over the world. However, I am restricted to anime and a couple of American adult comedies like South Park. Most anime fans I know watch western animation as well.

The same holds true for people who are not fans of the medium. For that matter it holds true for people who are not a fan of any other medium or genre in film. It doesn't make any of us racist or closed minded. It means we have preferences. I have not come across one person on this site who does not have preferences when it comes to film.

People have preferences, some people love black people so they have a ton of black friends, people who are not fans of blacks do not have black friends because it's not the type of people that appeals to them. That doesn't mean they are racist or close minded, it's just that it's not the type of people they like and everybody has preferences regarding people. :D

If you don't know animation, that only means that, you don't know. If you haven't read a single manga, that only means you don't know manga. You can say you dislike action shounen anime, you can say you dislike science fiction psychological horror seinen anime, you can say you dislike josei melodrama anime, you can say you dislike animation, you can say you dislike Japanese culture, you cannot say you dislike animation made in Japan, without either disliking Japanese culture or disliking animation.

I also think that people who say they like films but dislike Hollywood films or European films or Chinese films are close minded and prejudiced. I don't think it's actually possible for a person to not being able to enjoy stuff made in another country because of cultural differences.

I never say I like or dislike stuff based on the country they were made. I don't like anime, because there are plenty that don't interest me, I don't like Hollywood movies, for the same reason. I like what is good.

Miss Vicky

01-06-15, 12:59 PM

No, there are books called how to drawn manga.

How To Draw Anime (http://www.amazon.com/How-Draw-Anime-Simplified-Beginners-ebook/dp/B00G19B9OU/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1420563504&sr=8-8&keywords=how+to+draw+anime)

How To Draw Anime for Beginners (http://www.amazon.com/How-Draw-Anime-Beginners-Drawing-ebook/dp/B00HD0E3VM/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1420563504&sr=8-9&keywords=how+to+draw+anime)

How To Draw Anime: The Essential Beginners Guide (http://www.amazon.com/How-Draw-Anime-Essential-Beginners-ebook/dp/B00J4AZ9Q2/ref=sr_1_21?ie=UTF8&qid=1420563700&sr=8-21&keywords=how+to+draw+anime)

Guaporense

01-06-15, 12:59 PM

When I talk about genre-specific, I mean it as part of a thematic recurrence associated to a narrative purpose. Comedy has jokes, horror has creepy monsters, mecha (in case of anime) has robots... All these thematic recurrences are part of specific contexts which is what I would call genres.

Now, it's true that it's almost impossible to grasp the level of knowledge necessary to fully understand the variety of a specific medium; but to a point it's a matter of common sense, and if there are robots in the show it must be because it specifically includes them in its story and not as an intrinsic part of the Japanese animated format.

It's not about racism, but it is about denying a potentiality for no further reason than very limited experience. To a point it's more about attitude than it is about factual knowledge.

You nail it in the head again. Though I might say prejudice is essentially the same: you meet one black person, you dislike him/her, you think you don't like black persons. You watch an animation made in Japan, you dislike it, you think you don't like animation made in Japan. You associate a thing that has very limited relationship with the actual content.

MovieGal

01-06-15, 01:16 PM

With most forms of visual art, there are genres. Anime is a type of visual art. I watch an anime called "Mushishi". It is of the genre of "drama". "Darker than Black", another one I watch, it is an "Action". My daughter watches "Bleach" and "Attack on Titan", both are action. She watches many more anime shows than I do. A friend of mine usually watches anime films that are "horror".

Personally, I think that most people would enjoy "Mushishi", if they want to start out watching anime. The story lines are very good and the art is one of the best out there visually. It has won many awards, both the manga and the anime.

mark f

01-06-15, 01:24 PM

So Guap, you admit Brazilians make broad generalizations too. "Star Wars is for nerdy effeminates." Do you get upset at them (or do they include you?) as much as you seem to be upset at "us"? :)

Sir Toose

01-06-15, 01:27 PM

You nail it in the head again. Though I might say prejudice is essentially the same: you meet one black person, you dislike him/her, you think you don't like black persons. You watch an animation made in Japan, you dislike it, you think you don't like animation made in Japan. You associate a thing that has very limited relationship with the actual content.

You're really projecting here.

Perhaps this is true for you but it certainly isn't for me and probably not for a great many people.

People aren't automatons and they like what they like (exactly as you do).

Imagine someone created a long thread dedicated to talking you into liking something you don't like and then suggests that because you don't like it you're incapable of discretion or that you're lacking some innate ability to think for yourself.

That's this thread.

neiba

01-06-15, 02:09 PM

So Guap, you admit Brazilians make broad generalizations too. "Star Wars is for nerdy effeminates." Do you get upset at them (or do they include you?) as much as you seem to be upset at "us"? :)

Isn't it? :p

Guaporense

01-06-15, 02:30 PM

So Guap, you admit Brazilians make broad generalizations too. "Star Wars is for nerdy effeminates."

That is not a broad generalization because Star Wars is just a single film franchise. If they said American live action is for nerdy effeminates, I would get upset.

Do you get upset at them (or do they include you?) as much as you seem to be upset at "us"? :)

No, because they are not making a broad generalization.

You got upset because Tokeza did not put any American live action in his top 10, your favorite "genre" since 9 of your top 10 are of this "genre". At least I don't get upset when someone doesn't put a Japanese animation, or American live action in their top 10.

People here get upset when someone says Hollywood films are garbage for people who don't like to think.

Guaporense

01-06-15, 02:37 PM

You're really projecting here.

Perhaps this is true for you but it certainly isn't for me and probably not for a great many people.

This what?

People aren't automatons and they like what they like (exactly as you do).

And they are often close minded and prejudiced. Yes, I should just let them be close minded and talk nonsense on the internet.

Imagine someone created a long thread dedicated to talking you into liking something you don't like and then suggests that because you don't like it you're incapable of discretion or that you're lacking some innate ability to think for yourself.

Something like American live action? American music? Western literature?

I like everything by your definition of liking some works of a medium made by a large country/civilization.

While I don't like every genre, for instance, I dislike in general children's films, mecha or gansgter films, but a like some elements of these genres like Totoro, RahXephon and The Godfather. They usually transcend the limitations of the genre.

mark f

01-06-15, 02:40 PM

I think your idea of upset and mine are different. You're also playing with that genre/medium classification which set you off before.

Guaporense

01-06-15, 02:42 PM

Guaporense

01-06-15, 02:44 PM

I think your idea of upset and mine are different. You're also playing with that genre/medium classification which set you off before.

I get upset very easily I think. Other people are more calm.

Would you get upset if they say they dislike American live action? That it is not the type of movie they like because different people have different tastes? Start comparing it with a genre of anime?

Like, I would say, I watched that Godfather movie the other day, but that genre of movie, American live action, is not my genre of film and I don't like every genre like everybody. For instance, I dislike slice of life anime, though I watch a few titles a year, like I watch a few American live actions once in a while.

That's ignorant nonsense. I don't like reading ignorant nonsense on the internet, and so I get upset all the time. :D

From now on I will call all American live action films a genre, and refer constantly to my love for that genre, given that I have 3 American live actions in my top 10.

seanc

01-06-15, 03:13 PM

The only thing Japanese animation has in general are Japanese cultural sensibilities. The only thing that American live action has in general are American cultural sensibilities.

Do you think American live action is a genre? If you don't you cannot use the word to describe anime.

What do you think of horror is a genre of American live action (of course 99% of all horror films and TV you know are American live action films and TV).

There is a huge number of horror manga and substantial number of horror anime titles.

No they do not. In Brasil people have a bit different attitude regarding anime in comparison to the US. In Brasil anime is more well regarded by young people, unlike stuff such as Star Wars, which is regarded as something for nerdy effeminates.

Most Americans (who are 4.5% of the world's population, not 100% as some people appear to think) think of it as a genre because they are the ones who don't know anything about it. When you don't know much about something, like thinking Indian movies are all about dancing, it looks homogeneous, when you know it in greater depth, all the differences are apparent.

In Japan, Korea, China and other asian countries, manga is called comics, anime is called animation and are regarded as such.

No there are not. If you think they all look the same that`s because you don't notice the differences because you have watched to little of it. Like Indian movies look the same for Westerners.

To say Only Yesterday and DragonBall Z are the in same genre is to admit to be blind and deaf. It's like saying The Tree of Life and Friends are in the same genre, American live action, the genre.

No, there are books called how to drawn manga. The drawing style you think as "anime style" is a modern variation of early Tezuka's manga drawing style, which is the most popular style but not the only one.

Of course, I like ANIMATION as a means of telling stories or making experimental films. I am not restricted, however, to western animation, which is a very small part of world animation and 90% of all animation not made for children is made in Japan.

I envy the fans of live action film and TV who can watch movies and TV made all over the world. However, I am restricted to anime and a couple of American adult comedies like South Park. Most anime fans I know watch western animation as well.

People have preferences, some people love black people so they have a ton of black friends, people who are not fans of blacks do not have black friends because it's not the type of people that appeals to them. That doesn't mean they are racist or close minded, it's just that it's not the type of people they like and everybody has preferences regarding people. :D

If you don't know animation, that only means that, you don't know. If you haven't read a single manga, that only means you don't know manga. You can say you dislike action shounen anime, you can say you dislike science fiction psychological horror seinen anime, you can say you dislike josei melodrama anime, you can say you dislike animation, you can say you dislike Japanese culture, you cannot say you dislike animation made in Japan, without either disliking Japanese culture or disliking animation.

I also think that people who say they like films but dislike Hollywood films or European films or Chinese films are close minded and prejudiced. I don't think it's actually possible for a person to not being able to enjoy stuff made in another country because of cultural differences.

I never say I like or dislike stuff based on the country they were made. I don't like anime, because there are plenty that don't interest me, I don't like Hollywood movies, for the same reason. I like what is good.

My fault then. Just goes to show nothing good comes of letting an effeminate think.

90sAce

01-06-15, 03:42 PM

I think a better question is, why is it so important that people like the same things as you (whatever it is)? There are plenty of things I like which others don't (ex. I think the Star Wars prequels are decent films; a lot of members on the forum trash them, but I don't take it personally or devote entire essays persuading them to "like" them).

We're probably all guilty of this a little - but in the long run it doesn't really matter if other people like everything that you do, regardless of what the reason is. If a person's strongly bothered by that then they're probably putting too much of their personal security into "what they like" - which in the long run isn't that important. (When you're on your deathbed you're not going to be remembered for "what type of movies or cartoons you like" - you're going to be remembered for what you've done, and who you've impacted in life).

If your personal security is dependent on everyone liking you or liking the same things as you, that's definitely not healthy, IMO.

Defore

01-06-15, 04:16 PM

The definition of genre is "a particular type or category of literature or art." So yes, anime is a genre. American live action films is a genre. Simply the fact that you can use a word to describe a subset of films means it's a genre. The more important thing here is, who cares?

I think all Marvel films these days have a tone and style that separates them from eachother, but if someone told me they don't like any Marvel movies, my reaction would be "That's cool, I like most of them though." If people want to dismiss a group of films, that's their right and doesn't mean they're ignorant or close-minded, it's just a preference. Be secure in what you like, but be respectful when others disagree with you.

neiba

01-06-15, 04:23 PM

Defore

01-06-15, 04:26 PM

Well, using that description "cinema" is a genre...

It is indeed. It's a genre of art. Further proof that this genre argument is absurd and pointless.

jal90

01-06-15, 05:20 PM

Well, it proves as well that the term "genre" has to be used in a specific context to be given meaning, and that you can't talk about the "horror genre" and "anime genre" in the same phrase because they belong to different uses and limits of the term. If this is made clear I don't have any issue with the use of the word. But most of the time, it isn't and keeps being mixed and (many times pre)judged through the same standards.

Sedai

01-06-15, 05:38 PM

Ad-hominem are bad, jokes are good. I was talking to a guy called honeykid earlier, I hope he caught that our conversation was in the latter type. If not, may God have mercy on my soul. :eek:

Oh, that's nothing,. I burn HK in effigy daily, launch drones strikes on DVD collection, and I write Drew Barrymore each and every day to make sure she knows just how terrible his taste is film is. Pretty sure that one day, she will even answer her phone and talk to me!

Well, my internet time is up - back to my cell I go.

BAN RESTRAINING ORDERS!

Gatsby

01-06-15, 07:27 PM

One heck of a zombie this thread is...

Guaporense

12-19-16, 11:31 PM

Well, I think I should do this.

I have an unhealthy relationship with this forum. This is a forum about american movies (and TV, and anglosaxon music as well, given the fact that people who are into murican movies tend to be into other fields of Anglo American culture), if your primary interest in movies is not Murican movies then this is not the right place for you. I am not strongly interested in murican movies since 2012 while my tastes evolved and now it feels like a complete waste of my time to go and watch a movie like Rogue One. Yet, I still log here every day. And its not like I don't have anything to do: the time I wasted here if used in my research would have been tremendously beneficial for my career. Some people might think that I log here because anime fans are all kids, that's completely wrong I am also registered on 4 different anime forums and have several friends in my real life who are also into Japanese culture, which is where I get my recomendations for stuff to watch and read. Yet I still continue to post here, day after day.

For instance, I just posted that the director whose work I have the biggest collection is Junichi Satou, why did I post that? Its not like anybody here will know who that person is much less would appreciate his work if they watched it. Same applies to my participations in HoF, it was already clear from the beginning (since the 1st HoF) that this is not a place where most regulars would appreciate anything related to Contemporary East Asian visual culture besides the most accessible stuff. Yet, I continued to do it even though it was obvious that people were being extremely hostile to me and to the stuff I appreciate. Yet, I continued, I only decided go give up participating in any HoF after Bashu when through completely unrecognised for the Iranian masterpiece it is, but that was obvious from the start that this is not the right audience for it.

And it's not like people didnt give any signals: I have been in this forum for 48 months, in the first 3 months people were already telling me to GTFOut. Yet, this only made me stay here. I guess since I am unable to move on, otherwise I would have left 40 months ago, I should try to control myself a little bit more. I shouldn't post about stuff nobody will care about and restrict myself to talk about murican stuff here only. Since I am not seriously into murican culture anymore I wouldn't post 1% of the time I post here. Yet, I still do.

Well, its not like leaving will improve things (its an artificial restriction on myself). I should just control myself and be more realistic about my expectations.

Camo

12-20-16, 01:53 AM

Gotta love how Guap posts about his petty vendetta against Americans and people who like American things in a thread where others are posting about their very real problems in their real life.

Bashu when through completely unrecognised for the Iranian masterpiece it is,

Can you please tell us how this is some supreme masterpiece? Lets look at your review of it in the thread:

There are good movies, there are great movies and there are movies that truly show the potential of the medium of film: a movie that truly displays the capacity of art to extend the dimension of the emotions that one can feel. Bashu is such a film.

Directed by Bahrām Beyzāi, one of Iran's greatest directors alongside names such as Masoud Kimiai and Asghar Farhadi, Bashu is among the most acclaimed movies in Iranian cinema although it's relatively obscure among westerners. Its a simple but very effective movie.

Iran is a large country, although not as large as Brazil or the USA, but still pretty large and diverse in itself. Bashu shows the diversity of Iran as a country and even the, surprising, racism that permeates Iranian society, revealed by the interactions between Bashu and his adopted family and village.

Its a profoundly human film that's incredibly honest and touching.

Okay that tells us absolutely nothing. Just a bunch of hyperbole, general facts about the film and the fact that you found it touching. Well maybe it didn't strike an emotional chord with the other members, i mean that's a completely subjective thing and other than that you've done nothing other than declare it a masterpiece and call us morons for not loving it as much as you. You completely refused to participate in any discussions including about Bashu and i still don't believe for a second you watched the other films. And it had zero to do with the fact it was Iranian. Yes the winner of the HOF was American: Her but second place was the Japanese film Samurai Rebellion, third was the German film Good Bye Lenin! and fourth was the Polish film Ida.

I thought it was a good film and had it seventh, i simply found the other six better films. A few clearly didn't take to it and had it bottom or near bottom but that happens to every film. It did finish second to last but the biggest point difference between two films in the HOF was last place The Dead Girl with 32 points and Bashu with 43. Pretty much everybody had The Dead Girl at the bottom while Bashu got a few decent placings and yet Topsy isn't here whining nearly a month after it finished and she would actually have a leg to stand on since she actually took part, watched the films and explained why she thought The Dead Girl was a good film.

MovieMeditation

12-20-16, 04:07 PM

Gotta love how Guap posts about his petty vendetta against Americans and people who like American things in a thread where others are posting about their very real problems in their real life.
I thought that too. :facepalm:

This is a forum about american movies. if your primary interest in movies is not Murican movies then this is not the right place for you.
What a load of horsesh*t. :facepalm:

Miss Vicky

12-20-16, 08:23 PM

Gotta love how Guap posts about his petty vendetta against Americans and people who like American things in a thread where others are posting about their very real problems in their real life.

It's pretty pathetic. Dude needs a serious reality check.

As to his precious Bashu, I thought it was a decent film and enjoyed it well enough, but found certain aspects really grating and didn't love it.

I had it at #7 which was near the middle.

Guaporense

12-21-16, 12:57 AM

Gotta love how Guap posts about his petty vendetta against Americans and people who like American things in a thread where others are posting about their very real problems in their real life.

Its indeed a real problem that I have in constantly posting and logging in this forum even though it is in an extremely ignorant and hostile environment. Its an unhealthy obsession that I have, I think the reason is that I actually do not understand this hostility. Well, there is no point in trying to understand you so I guess I should add you to my ignore list.

Also, I love American culture, the difference between me and the rest of the people here is that I understand that it's not the only thing that exists in the world. The level of cultural myopia here is extreme.

Can you please tell us how this is some supreme masterpiece?

No. Why should I waste my time talking to you now since you are obviously is not interested in understanding the film?

Guaporense

12-21-16, 01:04 AM

What a load of horsesh*t. :facepalm:

Isnt it obvious? Look at your review thread.

Edit: I am doing it again, wasting my time arguing in the forum for no reason since the other party is obviously hostile and hence there is no scope for rational discussion. I am just wasting my time, energy and emotional resistance. :(

Camo

12-21-16, 01:20 AM

Also, I love American culture, the difference between me and the rest of the people here is that I understand that it's not the only thing that exists in the world. The level of cultural myopia here is extreme.

This month alone i've watched films from America, Britain, France, Spain, Poland, Japan and Hong Kong. What about you? Oh right Anime, Anime, Anime and maybe an American film or two. :rotfl: You are exactly what you accuse everyone else of being and it is hilarious. I really don't care what you or anyone else watches but it is amazing that you think you are superior to everyone when you are absolutely one of the least diverse people here in terms of what you watch. Not that that makes anyone superior of course just going by your own words.

Anyway this isn't the thread for this either start a new thread or put me on ignore up to you.

MovieMeditation

12-21-16, 02:08 AM

Edit: I am doing it again, wasting my time arguing in the forum for no reason since the other party is obviously hostile and hence there is no scope for rational discussion. I am just wasting my time, energy and emotional resistance. :(with a post like this it just makes it even more obvious that you are just a troll and I should stop acting like you are actually being serious.

I will refer you to Camo's post above. That said pretty much what I wanted to say.

ash_is_the_gal

12-21-16, 11:28 AM

Edit: I am doing it again, wasting my time arguing in the forum for no reason since the other party is obviously hostile and hence there is no scope for rational discussion. I am just wasting my time, energy and emotional resistance. :(sorry, but i really don't know how else you expect others to respond not hostile, when your entire post was a bunch of back handed insults about how everyone here are a bunch of uncultured morons and you're too good for the forum. i mean, there are plenty of places on the internet you could probably find that you fit into, where people share more of your views and such, cause it's the feckin' internet. if you can't find a place where people treat you the way you want to be treated, sounds like you need to start looking inwards and wondering why that is

Yoda

12-21-16, 11:43 AM

As I've pointed out a number of times, it's your posture towards disagreement that actually causes (or at least, heavily exacerbates) the conflicts you're talking about. Most people aren't so easily upset by the existence of people with different tastes or interests, and most people don't assume highly sinister, insulting, or (on a good day) patronizing motives when people argue with them, either. Those are the things that turn relatively benign differences into openly hostile ones.

You say there is "no scope for rational discussion," but you may recall I've tried to engage you in such discussions several times, both publicly and privately. And you may recall that each time you've ignored most of what was said, and/or bowed out very quickly. So whatever you say you want, your behavior says otherwise. If you wanted a rational discussion, as opposed to a rationalizing one, we would've had it by now.

False Writer

12-21-16, 11:46 AM

Its indeed a real problem that I have in constantly posting and logging in this forum even though it is in an extremely ignorant and hostile environment. Its an unhealthy obsession that I have, I think the reason is that I actually do not understand this hostility. Well, there is no point in trying to understand you so I guess I should add you to my ignore list.

Also, I love American culture, the difference between me and the rest of the people here is that I understand that it's not the only thing that exists in the world. The level of cultural myopia here is extreme.

No. Why should I waste my time talking to you now since you are obviously is not interested in understanding the film?

The reason is actually in your post, you're trying to "talk down" to everybody and then you wonder why they aren't treating you like an elite art house aficionado. It's actually very similar to Zotis's weird threads he made a little while ago. Both of you insulted the entire site by saying that their tastes are "inferior 'Murican garbage" and then when they defend themselves you act offended and surprised.

I'm not trying to pick on you or Zotis but the answer to the question that has you so confused is pretty obvious.

This place is called Movie Forums, not Art Movie Forums or Anime Movie Forums, so you're gonna get a lot of people that may not watch a ton of art or anime films. The thing is though, there are quite a few people here who DO watch them. I've seen you post about your love for Miyazaki recently; I just scanned through the Top 100 Animation List on this site, and I count 9 Miyazaki films on there, 2 in the top 10 and even a couple more Ghibli films not directed by Miyazaki.

The point being that there is love for art films and anime on this site, it might not be in the volume that you want but that's just what happens when you're on a site with such a broad title as Movie Forums.

Just chillax mah man. :cool:

Yoda

12-21-16, 11:59 AM

The reason is actually in your post, you're trying to "talk down" to everybody and then you wonder why they aren't treating you like an elite art house aficionado.
This is exactly right, and something that was more obvious early on. Here's something I said over two years ago:

I'm always sorry to see people with atypical interests leave, since a mix of tastes makes the forum more interesting.

But let's be clear: very little of your frustration is due to having different opinions. It's due to your insistence on being deferred to. This is evidenced by both the shoehorning of barely-applicable data into subjective discussions, as well as the constant references to the breadth of your viewing experience. Both are appeals to authority meant to end, rather than encourage, discussion on a particular point.

Citizen Rules

12-21-16, 01:09 PM

....this is not a place where most regulars would appreciate anything related to Contemporary East Asian visual culture besides the most accessible stuff. Yet, I continued to do it even though it was obvious that people were being extremely hostile to me and to the stuff I appreciate.... BS!...Guap I've tried to be extra cool to you since I came to MoFo because I find you interesting, intelligent...and you know a lot about history.

I was willing to overlook your sometimes poor behavior, but in the last couple months I've had it with your constant trolling that Americans are ignorant.

And don't try to claim it has to do with the different movie taste of MoFos. You're an angry person with pent up hostiles towards Americans. I believe you have some deep ceded, unresolved issues from your past that you're unable to deal with and so you have mentally transferred that to blaming all Americas for your own personal issues. Whatever is making you this way, you need to fix it for your own well being. It's not healthy to live in anger and resentment all your life.

I believe you said the same Americans are ignorant crap at another web site, so I know this has nothing to do with movies, it's about you and your feelings towards America.

Why Americans are "idiots" by Guaporense
http://historum.com/blogs/guaporense/31672-why-americans-idiots.html

You need to talk to someone about what ever is causing these issues in you life. Seriously.

.

Sir Toose

12-21-16, 02:05 PM

I agree with Camo on his suggestion that this thread isn't the best place for this discussion (Guaporense's assertions).

A few things I'd contest are the suggestions that America is culturally bankrupt and that this forum is a hostile environment populated by ignorant folk.

If there is an interest in pursuing those topics maybe we should create threads to have those discussions?

Mr Minio

12-21-16, 02:32 PM

Stop slandering Americans, Guap! I love me some 'murica in the morning.

Seriously, though, there's that stereotype that Americans are stupid and fat and as far as some people in America are indeed really fat (I blame American fast-foods), I know a lot of intelligent and clever yankees (most from MoFo) and even though I met some real buffoons from the country of Uncle Sam back in my multiplayer games era, I still think that the smart overcome the idiots. Then again, it is said that we attract people same as ourselves, so there may be a reason why you find so many American idiots, Guap. Now you will probably think this was a personal attack directed to you, because, of course, you are the only person who can insult other people, but God forbid anybody criticising you. Obviously, it's other people being narrow-minded, since they don't think anime is the best thing ever, but you are inherently open-minded, even though you are so limited in your movie watching and, citing your own words: "I am not strongly interested in murican movies since 2012 while my tastes evolved and now it feels like a complete waste of my time to go and watch a movie like Rogue One.". Apparently, for you, evolvement of tastes means watching less and less different kinds of movies and being more and more narrow-minded. Well, I thought it's the opposite.

Captain Steel

12-21-16, 02:44 PM

Well, in Guap's defense I am an ignorant American and not proud of it!
I'm also fat and very lazy!
I think the most culturally stimulating thing on TV is the Kardashians, only because Honey Boo Boo isn't on anymore!

I don't watch a lot of foreign films and I think all anime is the same! I stopped liking Speed Racer when I was 7, so I haven't really looked at any "anime" since then (except for a short "Star Blazers" & "Battle of the Planets" phase in my early teens), thus I think it's all the same!

As far as diversity - I love Japanese stuff - well, actually I just like the hot Japanese girls, but only the really good looking ones - you know, that have fake implants, wear a lot of make up and dress in school girl uniforms... (or if they wear animal ears!!!)

"Nyan!"
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/64/0d/d4/640dd42757f7b5d025cc70b238b2c6aa.jpg

;)

Mr Minio

12-21-16, 05:11 PM

I love Japanese stuff - well, actually I just like the hot Japanese girls https://media.giphy.com/media/urVY61nyYSTJK/giphy.gif

ash_is_the_gal

12-21-16, 05:13 PM

lol, fetishizing half of an entire culture for their sex is so funny guyssss

Captain Steel

12-21-16, 05:19 PM

lol, fetishizing half of an entire culture for their sex is so funny guyssss

Isn't that along the same lines as the kind of thing that Guap has been accusing Americans of?

Just remember, stereotypes are usually stereotypes for a reason. ;)

Mr Minio

12-21-16, 05:21 PM

At least me and Captain Steel like actual human girls, while anime fans love drawn anime girls.

ash_is_the_gal

12-21-16, 05:39 PM

Isn't that along the same lines as the kind of thing that Guap has been accusing Americans of?

Just remember, stereotypes are usually stereotypes for a reason. ;)
yeah, it's gross. it's also gross when someone does it for the sake of a joke.

Captain Steel

12-21-16, 06:21 PM

yeah, it's gross. it's also gross when someone does it for the sake of a joke.

Uh oh. Have I crossed the line again?
(and I thought my joke about Jaden Smith was bad last night!)

Guaporense

12-21-16, 06:47 PM

BS!...Guap I've tried to be extra cool to you since I came to MoFo because I find you interesting, intelligent...and you know a lot about history.

I was willing to overlook your sometimes poor behavior, but in the last couple months I've had it with your constant trolling that Americans are ignorant.

I see. Well I do not plan to say anything anymore about the subject.

And don't try to claim it has to do with the different movie taste of MoFos.

Of course not. Ignorance and arrogance are not the same as taste.

You're an angry person with pent up hostiles towards Americans.

Pent up hostiles towards Americans? What?

I believe you have some deep ceded, unresolved issues from your past that you're unable to deal with and so you have mentally transferred that to blaming all Americas for your own personal issues. Whatever is making you this way, you need to fix it for your own well being. It's not healthy to live in anger and resentment all your life.

And you a Freudian psychiatrist indeed. The reason for my anger is simple: people are very imperfect and that makes me mad. I should learn to not have high expectations of people so that I don't become mad when they fail to deliver on those expectations.

Now I understand Americans and other Anglo Saxon people better so I will be able to deal with them better in the future.

I believe you said the same Americans are ignorant crap at another web site, so I know this has nothing to do with movies, it's about you and your feelings towards America.

Its not a feeling. Its a fact: Americans are in general extremely arrogant and dismissive of the rest of the world and ignorant about the world outside of their country's borders to a higher degree than persons of similar levels of education that are from other countries.

You need to talk to someone about what ever is causing these issues in you life. Seriously.

So if someone says something critical of the US that Americans might not like it must be because they have mental problems?

That's American arrogance for you: Murica is perfect and nobody who is sane would criticize it. You just have proven me right.

The fact is that not everybody in the world loves America to death like Americans do. Some people just happen to have a significantly distinct outlook of the country. There nothing you can do about it other than to accept it.

Having been inside the US for 4 years I now understand very well why Anti Americanism is so prevalent in Brazil: the fact is that many Americans just do not respect other cultures so it's natural for people of other cultures to develop a dislike for them. This applies to a smaller extent not only in regards to Americans but also in regards to other Anglo Saxon people as well as Europeans from the Euro Zone.

Guaporense

12-21-16, 06:53 PM

lol, fetishizing half of an entire culture for their sex is so funny guyssss

Well, its very normal among Americans to stereotype and insult the rest of the world. Its part of the country's psyche to feel as if the rest of the world were inherently inferior so that they can just thrown insults at them like that. Then they wonder why some people have "mental issues" and insult Murica. :D

Guaporense

12-21-16, 07:05 PM

The reason is actually in your post, you're trying to "talk down" to everybody and then you wonder why they aren't treating you like an elite art house aficionado. It's actually very similar to Zotis's weird threads he made a little while ago. Both of you insulted the entire site by saying that their tastes are "inferior 'Murican garbage" and then when they defend themselves you act offended and surprised.

Well, thing is that it's impossible to talk about this kind of stuff without offending anybody.

I'm not trying to pick on you or Zotis but the answer to the question that has you so confused is pretty obvious.

This place is called Movie Forums, not Art Movie Forums or Anime Movie Forums, so you're gonna get a lot of people that may not watch a ton of art or anime films. The thing is though, there are quite a few people here who DO watch them. I've seen you post about your love for Miyazaki recently; I just scanned through the Top 100 Animation List on this site, and I count 9 Miyazaki films on there, 2 in the top 10 and even a couple more Ghibli films not directed by Miyazaki.

The point being that there is love for art films and anime on this site, it might not be in the volume that you want but that's just what happens when you're on a site with such a broad title as Movie Forums.

Just chillax mah man. :cool:

Its not lack of "love". Its the ignorant and dismissive attitude regarding foreign culture that's so prevalent in the forum.

For example, when Miyazaki's Nausicaa showed up in the top 100 of the 80's someone called said "what's this piece of poorly written RPG is doing there", which is arrogant and dismissive specially given the fact that someone did not watch the movie in the first place. Its because it's Japanese so it must be bad, right? That's plain redneck style xenophobia. Its a barbaric and disgusting behavior and it has nothing to do with interest or taste: I don't care much for French movies but I don't feel like saying '"oh what is this French garbage doing here".

Anyway, I know now that I shouldn't expect people to behave in a civilized manner here. So I am also not constraining myself anymore.

Yoda

12-21-16, 07:06 PM

The reason for my anger is simple: people are very imperfect and that makes me mad.
That makes me mad, too. The difference is that I don't measure perfection based on how closely their tastes align with my own.

False Writer

12-21-16, 07:07 PM

Guaporense

12-21-16, 07:08 PM

Because being an ignorant and dismissive of foreign cultures is "taste" now.

False Writer

12-21-16, 07:13 PM

Well, thing is that it's impossible to talk about this kind of stuff without offending anybody.

Its not lack of "love". Its the ignorant and dismissive attitude regarding foreign culture that's so prevalent in the forum.

For example, when Miyazaki's Nausicaa showed up in the top 100 of the 80's someone called said "what's this piece of poorly written RPG is doing there", which is arrogant and dismissive specially given the fact that someone did not watch the movie in the first place. Its because it's Japanese so it must be bad, right? That's plain redneck style xenophobia. Its a barbaric and disgusting behavior and it has nothing to do with interest or taste: I don't care much for French movies but I don't feel like saying '"oh what is this French garbage doing here".

Anyway, I know now that I shouldn't expect people to behave in a civilized manner here. So I am also not constraining myself anymore.

So one guy said something about a movie you love and you blame all of America for it? Do you know if that member was even American or not?

Guaporense

12-21-16, 07:15 PM

Sometimes the reason people get so obsessed with other cultures and/or hate other ones with a passion (in Gaup's case obsessed with Japan and hating America) is because they have major issues with their own country/culture.

I also hope that Guap can work out his issues.

Oh I see. I am the "obsessed" one now.

Well, I don't actually "like" Japanese culture more than Western culture. To me it feels that everything is pretty much the same, I don't even understand the notion of "liking" a culture actually which is why I hate when people talk in terms of "love anime", no its ANIMATION.

Stuff like Tamako Market from Japan is part of modern contemporary globalized pop culture just like Einherjer from Sweden. I don't see the fundamental difference between Star Wars and Dragonball, after I joined this forum and after I lived in the US I began to understand that to Americans (or British or Canadians) there exists a difference between "our culture" and "foreign culture". I just wasn't brought up in the same type of environment that automatically excludes culture that is not made in the same language as the language my parents speak.

Guaporense

12-21-16, 07:23 PM

So one guy said something about a movie you love and you blame all of America for it? Do you know if that member was even American or not?

That was Seanc, after I forced him to watch some Miyazaki he now respects him a little bit more. Still he was talking as if that was "a matter of taste", no, insulting the popular works of other cultures is not taste, its called being a xenophobic idiot.

Well, thing is that this type of xenophobic behavior is common among Americans. You just now said something very xenophobic as well: "people who are interested in foreign culture have mental problems":

Sometimes the reason people get so obsessed with other cultures and/or hate other ones with a passion (in Gaup's case obsessed with Japan and hating America) is because they have major issues with their own country/culture.

I see so if I appreciate animation that's not Brazilian animation I must have mental issues now. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: That's a plain xenophobic attitude right there.

The reason why 95% of the animation I watch is Japanese is because 95% of the adult animation made in the world is Japanese. Other countries don't have well developed animation cultures. End of story.

That is not an "issue". That's called having sensibility for animation and not being scared of foreign stuff just because it's foreign.

My issue is that I obssess over people here being xenophobic but that's the past now since I understand now that's considered normal for Americans to only consume American culture and be oblivious to the rest of the world's culture while it's considered abnormal for an American to consume culture made by people who speak a different language at their homes.

False Writer

12-21-16, 07:25 PM

Oh I see. I am the "obsessed" one now.

Well, I don't actually "like" Japanese culture more than Western culture. To me it feels that everything is pretty much the same, I don't even understand the notion of "liking" a culture actually which is why I hate when people talk in terms of "love anime", no its ANIMATION.

Stuff like Tamako Market from Japan is part of modern contemporary globalized pop culture just like Einherjer from Sweden. I don't see the fundamental difference between Star Wars and Dragonball, after I joined this forum and after I lived in the US I began to understand that to Americans (or British or Canadians) there exists a difference between "our culture" and "foreign culture". I just wasn't brought up in the same type of environment that automatically excludes culture that is not made in the same language as the language my parents speak.

Uhhh those countries are DEFINITELY not the only cultures that do that. Just look at the middle east where they're literally killing people for not adapting to "their culture".

Yoda

12-21-16, 07:27 PM

Because being an ignorant and dismissive of foreign cultures is "taste" now.
Substitute the word "interests" for "tastes," and the point is the same: you're not disappointed in people for not being "perfect." You're disappointed in people for not having interests that align with your own.

False Writer

12-21-16, 07:36 PM

You just now said something very xenophobic as well: "people who are interested in foreign culture have mental problems":

I see so if I appreciate animation that's not Brazilian animation I must have mental issues now. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: That's a plain xenophobic attitude right there.

The reason why 95% of the animation I watch is Japanese is because 95% of the adult animation made in the world is Japanese. End of story.

The first word I said in that post was "sometimes" so I wasn't saying that everyone who does that has mental issues. Heck I like other cultures and... well I actually do have some mental issues but that's not the point! :p

The thing is that there are over 300 million Americans and thinking they're all the exact same is xenophobic in itself.

Yoda

12-21-16, 07:42 PM

You just now said something very xenophobic as well: "people who are interested in foreign culture have mental problems"
No he didn't. And he didn't say someone interested in it "must" have mental problems, as you suggested later. He said people "sometimes" do it for that reason.

You also routinely exaggerate what people say in order to express outrage at it. For example, just now:

You need to talk to someone about what ever is causing these issues in you life. Seriously.
So if someone says something critical of the US that Americans might not like it must be because they have mental problems?

That's American arrogance for you: Murica is perfect and nobody who is sane would criticize it. You just have proven me right.
This is nonsense. He criticized you, specifically. He didn't suggest anyone critical of the U.S. has mental problems, and he certainly didn't say America was perfect. You extrapolated the first accusation out of a comment of much narrower scope, and the second is completely made up.

People can think things about you, specifically, that in no way reflect on Brazilians, non-Americans, fans of anime, or any other group you happen to be part of.

Yoda

12-21-16, 07:45 PM

The thing is that there are over 300 million Americans and thinking they're all the exact same is xenophobic in itself.
I've been pointing out this contradiction for a long time. I'm not sure if he's ever addressed it. I think it's because his answer is literally just going to be that it's okay when he does it, because he's right.

And part of the reason he'll say he's right is that he's lived in America for several years. I've asked him at least twice before if this has involved living anywhere other than the rural Midwest, and he declined to answer both times. My suspicion is that the answer is "no," which makes the claim particularly dubious, even above and beyond the inherently fallacious appeal to authority it represents.

MonnoM

12-21-16, 07:46 PM

Come on, people, this is a support group. Group hug!

Guap, you're not fooling anyone with that Stone Cold Steve Austin avatar. Now stop this foolishness and answer me this...

What exactly is Steve Austin up to these days, anyway?

Yoda

12-21-16, 07:58 PM

Come on, people, this is a support group. Group hug!
I agree, but the thread is where it is because it was used passively-aggressively to complain, rather than to genuinely ask for support.

Sir Toose

12-21-16, 08:12 PM

... I understand now that's considered normal for Americans to only consume American culture and be oblivious to the rest of the world's culture while it's considered abnormal for an American to consume culture made by people who speak a different language at their homes.

For someone who claims to value intelligence you certainly have a maddening way of repeating ad hominems that have already been addressed. Your insistence that it's true is showing up your own myopic viewpoint.

MonnoM

12-21-16, 08:30 PM

I agree, but the thread is where it is because it was used passively-aggressively to complain, rather than to genuinely ask for support.

I'll say this, you're resolute. Whether Guap is an alt. account or someone who has some unresolved issues, it's pointless either way to engage him in a discussion when he's mostly a broken record. It's a shame, because I've seen a few posts from Guap here and there where he seems genuine and even has some interesting things to share. Oh well, this is how he chooses to spend his time. :D

Miss Vicky

12-21-16, 08:34 PM

Whether Guap is an alt. account

Guap's not an alt.

He's just an arrogant pain in the rear who's been at this same nonsense for years.

MonnoM

12-21-16, 08:44 PM

Guap's not an alt.

He's just an arrogant pain in the rear who's been at this same nonsense for years.

Well, we know commitment is his strong suit.

cricket

12-21-16, 08:51 PM

I've seen a few non Americans make mention that all we know is our own country. Don't these folks realize that we're all immigrants here and we all know it? I'm probably the definition of an average American, and I have foreign friends, eat foreign food, watch foreign movies, have visited foreign lands, and keep up with the world's news. Am I supposed to buy my wife a kimono for Christmas? When people say these things, I honestly think there's a jealousy factor. Are Russian movies popular in India, or are Iranian movies popular in Switzerland? The focus some people put on America is just plain odd to me.

Guaporense

12-21-16, 09:43 PM

Uhhh those countries are DEFINITELY not the only cultures that do that. Just look at the middle east where they're literally killing people for not adapting to "their culture".

Indeed. American culture has it's similarities with other cultures from the same religious root.

The Western dismissal of pornographic comics and animation comes from the same religious root to force women to wear clothes over their entire body. It's a far less radical one but essentially the same: cultural sexual repression.

Anyway, I still greatly admire some aspects of American culture such as their greater respect for individuality. Still, I think that xenophobia and racism are problematic in American culture. Like all cultures they have their weak and strong points.

Guaporense

12-21-16, 09:47 PM

Substitute the word "interests" for "tastes," and the point is the same: you're not disappointed in people for not being "perfect." You're disappointed in people for not having interests that align with your own.

No. I am disappointed that people here INSULT my interests. Do you see the DIFFERENCE?

One thing is saying:

Goodfellas is not the type of movie I am interested in.

Another very different thing is saying:

Goodfellas is a movie that idolizes criminal behavior and is a movie only sociopaths would like.

You for instance, insulted me when you implicitly claimed that K-On! is for pedophiles. That's not the same as not being interested in it.

My issue is that I keep posting stuff here even though it's an extremely hostile environment. Why do I do that?

TONGO

12-21-16, 09:49 PM

The Western dismissal of pornographic comics and animation comes from the same religious root to force women to wear clothes over their entire body. It's a far less radical one but essentially the same: cultural sexual repression.

To compare westerners having taste to muslims that force their women to wear tarps is laughable. :rolleyes: If you really are as world traveled as you say, I doubt youd come off this ignorant.

Guaporense

12-21-16, 09:49 PM

The first word I said in that post was "sometimes" so I wasn't saying that everyone who does that has mental issues. Heck I like other cultures and... well I actually do have some mental issues but that's not the point! :p

The thing is that there are over 300 million Americans and thinking they're all the exact same is xenophobic in itself.

i never said all Americans are the same. I said that America (and the Anglosphere culture overall) is a xenophobic culture.

I think this is a pretty well established fact. So do you disagree or not?

Guaporense

12-21-16, 09:52 PM

For someone who claims to value intelligence you certainly have a maddening way of repeating ad hominems that have already been addressed. Your insistence that it's true is showing up your own myopic viewpoint.

Insistence in what? I never claimed that before.

Do you disagree with it or not?

So, do you have any evidence to contradict my assertion or not?

Guaporense

12-21-16, 09:54 PM

I'll say this, you're resolute. Whether Guap is an alt. account or someone who has some unresolved issues, it's pointless either way to engage him in a discussion when he's mostly a broken record. It's a shame, because I've seen a few posts from Guap here and there where he seems genuine and even has some interesting things to share. Oh well, this is how he chooses to spend his time. :D

Indeed. That's my problem: why do I talk about stuff with people that obviously have no idea of what I am talking about.

Obviously, Americans will never accept that their culture is not perfect: thinking that they are the inherently perfect and a superior culture to the rest of the world in every single way is essential for their psyche. Talking to Americans about problems in the American culture is considered insulting to them and hence they will not react in any other way other than simple hostility to the person who is talking about it.

Your personal attack is obviously a confirmation of that.

Guaporense

12-21-16, 09:57 PM

I've been pointing out this contradiction for a long time. I'm not sure if he's ever addressed it. I think it's because his answer is literally just going to be that it's okay when he does it, because he's right.

I never claimed that all Americans are the same. I claim that the US is a xenophobic culture. Do you disagree or not?

And part of the reason he'll say he's right is that he's lived in America for several years. I've asked him at least twice before if this has involved living anywhere other than the rural Midwest, and he declined to answer both times. My suspicion is that the answer is "no," which makes the claim particularly dubious, even above and beyond the inherently fallacious appeal to authority it represents.

I never declined to answer. I have been in the following states of the USA:

California
Nevada
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Florida
New York
Illinois
Massachusetts
DC

Among some other parts I forgot. I have been to more American states than Brazilian states.

I am actually currently employed at an American university by the way.

Camo

12-21-16, 10:00 PM

This seriously should be made into its own thread, Rhys post about his real problems has been completely buried. And i apologize for being the first to react to Guap here.

Gatsby

12-21-16, 10:01 PM

http://i.imgur.com/ZAkQ0ar.gif

cricket

12-21-16, 10:05 PM

Indeed. That's my problem: why do I talk about stuff with people that obviously have no idea of what I am talking about.

Obviously, Americans will never accept that their culture is not perfect: thinking that they are the inherently perfect and a superior culture to the rest of the world in every single way is essential for their psyche. Talking to Americans about problems in the American culture is considered insulting to them and hence they will not react in any other way other than simple hostility to the person who is talking about it.

Your personal attack is obviously a confirmation of that.

There are many other countries whose problems you could attempt to dissect. Why are you obsessed with America?

Guaporense

12-21-16, 10:07 PM

I agree, but the thread is where it is because it was used passively-aggressively to complain, rather than to genuinely ask for support.

No I didn't. I was perfectly honest: I am in deep trouble wasting my time while defending myself from insults here instead of actually enjoying life.

Thing is, why do I do that? Why do I subject myself to this interminable masochistic ritual of being insulted in the internet by strangers?

Because I know that this forum is not the place to expect people to be open minded and not xenophobic regarding global film. This is an American forum that reflects American cultural traits including it's xenophobia. Yet, I continue to post here.

I think my problem is that I greatly overestimate people's capacity to understand things in a cold logical way. People are easily insulted in many ways (for instance Americans cannot accept that someone saying that American culture is xenophobic, even though it is and attack that person directly like right here right now) and think in terms of stereotypes ("anime") and are unable to understand things in a more nuanced way. I feel badly about that and try to correct people, then they get defensive because they are proud of their ignorance.

In other words, my problem is that I am unable to let idiots be idiots. I should just allow them to insult other cultures at will and ignore them. My strategy of insulting their culture to make them understand that insulting other cultures is wrong is obviously not working.

Guaporense

12-21-16, 10:08 PM

There are many other countries whose problems you could attempt to dissect. Why are you obsessed with America?

Because I live in America and talk using their language with Americans. Being integrated into their society is vital for my life and career.

False Writer

12-21-16, 10:10 PM

Indeed. American culture has it's similarities with other cultures from the same religious root.

The Western dismissal of pornographic comics and animation comes from the same religious root to force women to wear clothes over their entire body. It's a far less radical one but essentially the same: cultural sexual repression.

Anyway, I still greatly admire some aspects of American culture such as their greater respect for individuality. Still, I think that xenophobia and racism are problematic in American culture. Like all cultures they have their weak and strong points.

This is a post I can agree with, even though the 2 sexual repression examples are very polar opposite of each other...

i never said all Americans are the same. I said that America (and the Anglosphere culture overall) is a xenophobic culture.

I think this is a pretty well established fact. So do you disagree or not?

Whenever you talk about America being ignorant and a bunch of idiots you specifically use the term Americans, you don't specify a specific type of American either so you're implying that all Americans ARE the same.

seanc

12-21-16, 10:11 PM

#banbabyban

cricket

12-21-16, 10:13 PM

Because I live in America and talk using their language with Americans. Being integrated into their society is vital for my life and career.

But on this forum, there are residents of many countries. Maybe you confuse national pride with ignorance? Do you think most countries are different? Don't the residents of many nations love their birthplace?

Guaporense

12-21-16, 10:17 PM

But on this forum, there are residents of many countries. Maybe you confuse national pride with ignorance? Do you think most countries are different? Don't the residents of many nations love their birthplace?

Actually I don't feel offended if someone makes a constructive criticism of Brazil in some way.

Americans are more nationalistic than other peoples and get offended more easily if you do something like burning their flag. Also my criticism of Americans here reflects problems in the culture of the anglosphere (US, UK, Canada, Australia, Ireland, etc). Taking all Anglophone countries we have 95% of the users here.

The only long terms users not from the anglosphere are: Me, Mr Minio, Cobbyth and the Korean guy.

Guaporense

12-21-16, 10:21 PM

Whenever you talk about America being ignorant and a bunch of idiots you specifically use the term Americans, you don't specify a specific type of American either so you're implying that all Americans ARE the same.

My strategy was to make people here understand that being prejudiced is not cool. So I decided to be prejudiced with Americans. Hence, they would understand that is not cool to be prejudiced.

Thing is it only generated personal attacks. I guess I should stop.

Also, I do not recall ever saying that "Americans are a bunch of idiots". I only wrote a blog post saying "Why Americans are "idiots"?" with "idiots" under quotes, hence not to be taken for their literal meaning. My point in that blog post was to explain why there is this general impression among people that "Americans are idiots", which is something many people say all the time (even in the Simpsons an Indian women said "ignorant American" in some episode).

And no I obviously do not believe that all the people living inside some imaginary borders are all idiots.

Sexy Celebrity

12-21-16, 10:23 PM

This seriously should be made into its own thread

Why are you always trying to dictate what goes on in my threads?

cricket

12-21-16, 10:23 PM

Actually I don't feel offended if someone makes a constructive criticism of Brazil in some way.

Americans are more nationalistic than other peoples and get offended more easily if you do something like burning their flag. Also my criticism of Americans here reflects problems in the culture of the anglosphere (US, UK, Canada, Australia, Ireland, etc).

Brazilians are extremely proud. When they won the Cup, there were many out in the American streets waving their flag and screaming, Brazil! I think the issues you describe are not unique to America, and that you're actually talking about human nature in general. I think right now, you're a fish out of water, and what you're experiencing is not unlike a child going to a new school.

Guaporense

12-21-16, 10:30 PM

I guess you are right.

But Brazilians in general are not as proud of their country as a whole, we of course love our football team but that's a whole different thing from thinking that our institutions and politicians are good and honest. In my case I am not insulted if someone says Brazilian culture is machist and homophobic.

But the fact is that I just cannot accept that people of the USA (or UK) can so easily insult foreign cultures. In Brazil we don't insult foreign stuff so easily: I never saw a Brazilian dismissing foreign culture like some people here who claimed that a Miyazaki film as "poorly written RPG" just because it's Japanese and not American. In Brazil we never say something like "Goodfellas is this poorly made American movie that is a reflection of their obsession with criminal protagonists". I just don't understand how is considered normal to insult foreign cultures.

False Writer

12-21-16, 10:31 PM

My strategy was to make people here understand that being prejudiced is not cool. So I decided to be prejudiced with Americans. Hence, they would understand that is not cool to be prejudiced.

Thing is it only generated personal attacks. I guess I should stop.

Also, I do not recall ever saying that "Americans are a bunch of idiots". I only wrote a blog post saying "Why Americans are "idiots"?" with "idiots" under quotes, hence not to be taken for their literal meaning. My point in that blog post was to explain why there is this general impression among people that "Americans are idiots", which is something many people say all the time (even in the Simpsons an Indian women said "ignorant American" in some episode).

And no I obviously do not believe that all the people living inside some imaginary borders are all idiots.

And you're just now telling all of us this? I'm not entirely convinced that was your motive, but I'll just leave it at that...

So what you're saying is that just the "Loud Patriotic American" image is what you hate—well yeah I'm guessing every non-American is not a huge fan of that. Heck even I'm not all that crazy about it, I'm not against patriotism at all, but I will agree that some people can get obnoxious about it. That goes for people from other countries as well that just chant "Our country is the best!" all day.