View Full Version : The Trash Vault with JJ, Nostromo and Swan
http://oi62.tinypic.com/2e213r7.jpg
In this thread, JJ, nostromo87 and I will set a movie to watch within a week and then discuss it at our leisure. It will be broken into subgenres. We will explore the subgenre until we're ready to move on.
RECOMMENDATIONS ARE WELCOME.
Giallo
1. Blood and Black Lace (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1216678#post1216678) (Mario Bava, 1964)
2. The Bird with the Crystal Plumage (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1219053#post1219053) (Dario Argento, 1970)
3. The Cat o' Nine Tails (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1221730#post1221730) (Dario Argento, 1971) - NOT WATCHED
Roger Corman
1. X: The Man with the X-Ray Eyes (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1253022#post1253022) (Roger Corman, 1963)
2. Little Shop of Horrors (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1254549#post1254549) (Roger Corman, 1960) - NOT WATCHED
Lucio Fulci
1. The Beyond (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1305026#post1305026) (Lucio Fulci, 1981))
Blood and Black Lace
(Mario Bava, 1964)
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f145/ifiswan/blood-and-black-lace-movie-poster-1965-1020436027_zps0a9c52fa.jpg
jiraffejustin
12-09-14, 01:37 AM
It's going to be a rewatch for me. It's been a long time since my first viewing, and I am expecting my feelings to change. I remember not really enjoying the film at the time, but I remember certain details fondly.
Will be my first viewing. JJ mentioned in PM that this is basically the prototype of giallo, which sounds about right to me. I have liked what I've seen by Bava, which is Black Sabbath and Black Sunday, so I'm hoping I like this as well.
BlueLion
12-09-14, 02:09 AM
cool, I need to see more giallo and I was in need of some recs, so I should find this thread helpful :)
jiraffejustin
12-09-14, 02:13 AM
cool, I need to see more giallo and I was in need of some recs, so I should find this thread helpful :)
Mario Bava, Dario Argento, Lucio Fulci, and Sergio Martino.
If Mt. Rushmore featured the faces of giallo filmmakers, these are the faces that would be on it. If you are interested in the genre, I suggest you look up the filmography of these guys.
The Gunslinger45
12-09-14, 02:13 AM
I need to get into giallo flicks. I will keep an eye on this!
BlueLion
12-09-14, 02:17 AM
Already heard of these guys (well, with the exception of that Martino guy), but I'm not familiar at all with their work, except for Argento of course.
I guess it's time to finally start exploring their filmographies + I'll probably check out anything you guys watch if it sounds appealing to me
jiraffejustin
12-09-14, 02:31 AM
Hopefully we can bring some attention to Sergio Martino in this thread. He only made five giallo films before making films of various other exploitation genres. The only film of his that I've seen is Torso, which I thought was pretty damn good. His four other gialli are well regarded amongst fans of the genre, and look like films that are undeniably unique and interesting. I am most excited about exploring his films.
I'm definitely excited to see Torso. My dad owns it and I have it ready to watch. I have seen none of his films so it will be my first Martino.
the samoan lawyer
12-09-14, 09:03 AM
Nice thread, looking forward to this. I watched Black Sabbath for the first time quite recently and really liked it, would be good to read your thoughts on that. Also, would you be up for doing any Hammer Horror?
Nice thread, should be interesting!
I thought that Blood and Black Lace was really underwhelming and was quite disappointed by it. Im eager to here your responses!
My next Bava is probably going to be Kill Baby, Kill from 1966, which i have only heard good things about.
I may sound like a broken record, but i hope you will check out Santa Sangre (1989) by Alejandro Jodorowsky at some point :)
Nice thread, looking forward to this. I watched Black Sabbath for the first time quite recently and really liked it, would be good to read your thoughts on that. Also, would you be up for doing any Hammer Horror?
Yeah, we've been discussing possible categories via PM and I mentioned Hammer. That is one we are definitely going to get to. :)
jiraffejustin
12-09-14, 10:53 AM
Nice thread, looking forward to this. I watched Black Sabbath for the first time quite recently and really liked it, would be good to read your thoughts on that. Also, would you be up for doing any Hammer Horror?
Yep. We'll be hitting Hammer.
Nice thread, should be interesting!
I thought that Blood and Black Lace was really underwhelming and was quite disappointed by it. Im eager to here your responses!
My next Bava is probably going to be Kill Baby, Kill from 1966, which i have only heard good things about.
I may sound like a broken record, but i hope you will check out Santa Sangre (1989) by Alejandro Jodorowsky at some point :)
I still haven't seen any Jodorowsky films, so I might try to convince Swan and stromo to include a quick Jodorowsky filmography hit and run for this thread.
As Jodorowsky is one of my fave directors, I'm down.
I can see why TokeZa and JJ were underwhelmed, but I guess I wasn't simply because I went in knowing it might not be great. I did like it, I rate it a 3+ which is a good rating, but it's definitely not the best giallo I've seen. This was one of the very first giallo films (I did a little research and it seems Bava's '63 The Girl Who Knew Too Much is considered the first one. Maybe we should have started with that, but like JJ said, Blood and Black Lace seems to be more of the prototype of giallo, and has had more of an impact than that one), and from what I have seen, the subgenre definitely evolved and became much more interesting and fun.
I also got the feeling while watching this that it was very influenced by film noir. Maybe I'm crazy, I don't know, but now I am wondering if the entire subgenre of giallo has it's roots in noir. The music of this film, the mystery, the dialogue, it was all very noirish. I don't know if JJ or nostromo feel the same, curious what they think.
jiraffejustin
12-11-14, 01:48 PM
Just pressed play. I'll be watching for the film noir influences, I expect the early Bava giallo films to have the same film noir feel. He probably made those murder mystery films with noir in mind.
As Jodorowsky is one of my fave directors, I'm down.
The best Jodorowsky film I've seen is Jodorowsky's Dune and he didn't direct it (although he lived it). :cool:
The best Jodorowsky film I've seen is Jodorowsky's Dune and he didn't direct it (although he lived it). :cool:
Maybe we'll add that to our Jodorowsky list. :D
jiraffejustin
12-11-14, 04:55 PM
Had to pause the movie because my neighbor came over for a short visit, so it took a little longer to finish.
SPOILER ALERT KINDA
I'd give it the same score as Swan or maybe half a popcorn higher. I enjoyed it a lot more than the first time around, but I still prefer Argento's style of giallo more. It's not entirely fair to compare though, because Argento had a template and the liberty to expand the concept to fit his imagination in part thanks to Bava and Blood and Black Lace. I think I also prefer the wacky giallo storylines that aren't entirely feasible or easy to follow than the type of mostly straight-forward storytelling employed in this one, sure there are some reveals at the end, but it's not the all over the place stuff that happens down-the-road by the other guys.
And as far as film noir influences go, I'd say it's pretty obviously influenced by the genre. You have the music, the claustrophobic action sequences, double-crosses, the usage of shadows, and I'd even say we get the femme fatale device. I think Massimo was the femme fatale in this case though, so Bava did switch it up a little bit.
I'd give it the same score as Swan or maybe half a popcorn higher. I enjoyed it a lot more than the first time around, but I still prefer Argento's style of giallo more. It's not entirely fair to compare though, because Argento had a template and the liberty to expand the concept to fit his imagination in part thanks to Bava and Blood and Black Lace. I think I also prefer the wacky giallo storylines that aren't entirely feasible are easy to follow than the type of mostly straight-forward storytelling employed in this one, sure there is some reveals at the end, but it's not the all over the place stuff that happens down-the-road by the other guys.
I'm with you. I love Argento. He is so stylish and his stories are always interesting. This is the only Bava I've seen, so maybe he has made some better giallo's later on, but for now I prefer Argento and Fulci (have yet to see a Martino) based on what I've seen.
And as far as film noir influences go, I'd say it's pretty obviously influenced by the genre. You have the music, the claustrophobic action sequences, double-crosses, the usage of shadows, and I'd even say we get the femme fatale device. I think Massimo was the femme fatale in this case though, so Bava did switch it up a little bit.
Glad I'm not crazy then!
Even if I wasn't 100% crazy about the flick, the fact of the matter is Bava is still a very talented giallo director for sure. I'm so happy I watched this not just because it's a big stable in giallo, and horror in general, but because there is some great filmmaking going on here. When the diary comes up, I love how he chose to cut to close-ups of many of the characters, making you wonder who the killer could be. Little things like that. You can tell Bava knew film noir like the back of his hand. This film is almost an Italian, visually colorful, stylish, bloody film noir. What later directors such as Argento did was take the template and really run with it, creating giallo cinema. Blood and Black Lace's place in giallo cinema is similar to Halloween's place in slasher cinema.
jiraffejustin
12-11-14, 05:34 PM
Even if I wasn't 100% crazy about the flick, the fact of the matter is Bava is still a very talented giallo director for sure. I'm so happy I watched this not just because it's a big stable in giallo, and horror in general, but because there is some great filmmaking going on here. When the diary comes up, I love how he chose to cut to close-ups of many of the characters, making you wonder who the killer could be. Little things like that. You can tell Bava knew film noir like the back of his hand. This film is almost an Italian, visually colorful, stylish, bloody film noir. What later directors such as Argento did was take the template and really run with it, creating giallo cinema. Blood and Black Lace's place in giallo cinema is similar to Halloween's place in slasher cinema.
I think my favorite sequence is the one at Franco's place when Nicole is being chased. The tension there was pretty great, and of course the kill itself was nasty. I like how the killer wasn't some awesome killing machine, but kind of sloppy with it. I guess that aspect gives the film a little more charm.
And I hadn't even thought of the scene with the diary as being noirish until you mentioned it. Good catch. I think the scene with all the men being released from police custody with the close-up of the notepad as the men were given their belongings was noirish itself, as the camera cut to Massimo's face and he was worried that somebody might see what was written inside the pad. Bava is a very talented director indeed.
I think my favorite sequence is the one at Franco's place when Nicole is being chased. The tension there was pretty great, and of course the kill itself was nasty. I like how the killer wasn't some awesome killing machine, but kind of sloppy with it. I guess that aspect gives the film a little more charm.
And I hadn't even thought of the scene with the diary as being noirish until you mentioned it. Good catch. I think the scene with all the men being released from police custody with the close-up of the notepad as the men were given their belongings was noirish itself, as the camera cut to Massimo's face and he was worried that somebody might see what was written inside the pad. Bava is a very talented director indeed.
The killer was definitely sloppy and I agree, in much of horror we see killers as being really perfect and killing flawlessly without any misstep, and that really wasn't the case here. Made the killer a bit flawed, I think, which gave him some character.
I believe nostromo is working on getting it watched, I'm excited to see what he thinks.
Captain Spaulding
12-11-14, 11:22 PM
Question: Does Sexy Celebrity bathing me on a nightly basis classify as "other repulsive ****?" Will you guys be discussing the temperature of the bathwater, the choice of bubble bath, how well he shampoos my hair, etc?
And although I'm enjoying reading the discussion on giallo and horror in general, I'm also looking forward to the "trash" part of the discussion. Will you guys post pictures of your trashcans? Discuss which brand of trash bags you buy? Are you sponsoring field trips to the local landfill?
Sexy Celebrity
12-11-14, 11:23 PM
Captain Spaulding, I am so sick of those bubble baths. I'm gonna start taking you outside and spraying you with a water hose. I mean, it's time to grow up already!
Captain Spaulding
12-11-14, 11:36 PM
Captain Spaulding, I am so sick of those bubble baths. I'm gonna start taking you outside and spraying you with a water hose. I mean, it's time to grow up already!
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_mdcwgsX1hwg/TPQDoJytPVI/AAAAAAAAFkw/C7matPfCNEY/s1600/IMG_0229.JPG
Sexy Celebrity
12-11-14, 11:42 PM
Take a bath with this!
http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=18808&stc=1&d=1418355740
And although I'm enjoying reading the discussion on giallo and horror in general, I'm also looking forward to the "trash" part of the discussion. Will you guys post pictures of your trashcans? Discuss which brand of trash bags you buy? Are you sponsoring field trips to the local landfill?
This isn't the trash you're looking for.
http://www.wcssaa.ca/obi-wan.jpg
Nostromo87
12-13-14, 12:26 AM
http://oi62.tinypic.com/2e213r7.jpg
this thread somehow feels strangely familiar http://oi58.tinypic.com/96gjso.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/iofaxi.jpg
THE BIRD WITH DAT CRYSTAL PLUMAGE (1970)
Like our main player well enough, Tony Musante as Sam, and he had an attractive girlfriend, Suzy Kendall. For a while i was slightly surprised this is as well rated as it is in some places. However, it had a thrilling finalé with a twist. Along with plenty of Italian style, helmed by Argento's direction & Morricone's providing a strong musical atmosphere. This is what you get for being a writer who witnesses a murder attempt on a woman's life, who then gets stalked by a serial killer
Rating: 3+ 6.5 / 10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDKsHeD3LbU
And thus nostromo's post lead us into...
The Bird with the Crystal Plumage
(Dario Argento, 1970)
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f145/ifiswan/The_Bird_With_the_Crystal_Plumage1_zps88d23ecc.jpg
http://oi62.tinypic.com/2e213r7.jpg
this thread somehow feels strangely familiar http://oi58.tinypic.com/96gjso.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/iofaxi.jpg
THE BIRD WITH DAT CRYSTAL PLUMAGE (1970)
Like our main player well enough, Tony Musante as Sam, and he had an attractive girlfriend, Suzy Kendall. For a while i was slightly surprised this is as well rated as it is in some places. However, it had a thrilling finalé with a twist. Along with plenty of Italian style, helmed by Argento's direction & Morricone's providing a strong musical atmosphere. This is what you get for being a writer who witnesses a murder attempt on a woman's life, who then gets stalked by a serial killer
Rating: 3+ 6.5 / 10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDKsHeD3LbU
I didn't know Morricone did the score for this, I assumed it was Goblin. Not sure I've seen an Argento flick without a Goblin score! Should be interesting.
jiraffejustin
12-13-14, 06:10 PM
Now this is more my style. Even though it's more subdued than subsequent films by giallo master Dario Argento, it's still slick as ice. I could be accused of supporting style over substance, and I'd probably be found guilty, and Argento is the master of style. The camera is always in the right place, the music is always spot on, and though logic is sometimes thrown out the window, it looks good anyway. It's kind of hard to believe that this was Argento's first film, because he shot it with the confidence of a tenured vet.
4 at least.
Should be watching it tonight. Especially excited now.
4.5-
Argento is quickly becoming a favorite director of mine. I've seen five of his films - Suspiria, Deep Red, Inferno, Phenomena, and now The Bird with the Crystal Plumage, and loved each one.
I agree with JJ that he is a master of style. I've always argued against the phrase "style over substance" being such a negative one. Why can't a purely stylistic film be a good thing? It's taking one of the unique perks of cinema and rocking it. I love substance, but I think style in many ways can be the substance of a film. Especially with something that often has a somewhat simple storyline.
https://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9kjmpA06i1qdlvg6o1_500.gif
I recently talked about how one of the things I love about Halloween is it's simplicity. Well, I've realized that goes for a number of horror films. When they are simple, they are effective. In most cases convoluting the plot with unnecessary crap is just that, unnecessary. With a movie like this, it's basically just a killer going after women and the main character trying to solve the case. If Argento had given it too much plot it just wouldn't have been as good, I feel. But he knows how horror works. He keeps it simple and goes for style, and it's ace.
Got to give a shout out to the score, too. Argento's flicks always have these scores I immediately want to track down after finishing the film. I was wondering how this would compare to the work Goblin has done for Argento, which I love to death, and I'm pleased to say it's absolutely equal. Morricone is amazing and this was just as good as anything Goblin did.
http://girlmeetsfreak.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/tumblr_m9mbxj1rdt1qdlvg6o1_500.gif
Lastly, the twist and ending really bumps it up half a mark for me. Really cleverly done. Also, I loved...
how the ending implied Julia might one day become a killer. Was it just me? I felt like the voiceover playing over her on the plane implied that.
Captain Spaulding
12-16-14, 01:34 AM
Great write-up, Swan.
I've always argued against the phrase "style over substance" being such a negative one. Why can't a purely stylistic film be a good thing? It's taking one of the unique perks of cinema and rocking it. I love substance, but I think style in many ways can be the substance of a film.
Agree 100%.
Mr Minio
12-16-14, 04:32 AM
Try some Fulci, guys. Namely Don't Torture a Duckling and A Lizard in a Woman's Skin.
This thread looks cool. I need to learn more about Giallo!
Later though you guys should review Audition.
honeykid
12-16-14, 08:14 AM
So long as you watch Alice, Sweet Alice and What Have You Done To Solange? this thread'll be fine.
the samoan lawyer
12-16-14, 09:18 AM
Loving this thread so far. Crystal Plumage and Black Lace are two that have been on my watchlist for ages but i'll get round to them asap now.
This thread reminds me the first time i watched Suspiria, which was last year in the theatre and was accompanied by Claudio Simonetti from Goblin playing the score literally 10 feet in front of me. I'm not sure if there were any more members from Goblin or not but it was an amazing experience.
Loving this thread so far. Crystal Plumage and Black Lace are two that have been on my watchlist for ages but i'll get round to them asap now.
This thread reminds me the first time i watched Suspiria, which was last year in the theatre and was accompanied by Claudio Simonetti from Goblin playing the score literally 10 feet in front of me. I'm not sure if there were any more members from Goblin or not but it was an amazing experience.
Man, im so sad i could not afford it, when Goblin live performed the Susperia Soundtrack here in Copenhagen earlier this year. I own the god damn soundtrack on vinyl :(
A+ thread!
This thread reminds me the first time i watched Suspiria, which was last year in the theatre and was accompanied by Claudio Simonetti from Goblin playing the score literally 10 feet in front of me. I'm not sure if there were any more members from Goblin or not but it was an amazing experience.
Damn. I'm jealous. That sounds incredible.
the samoan lawyer
12-16-14, 09:42 AM
Damn. I'm jealous. That sounds incredible.
it was awesome.
I'll be honest and say that horror and giallo really are not my kind of thing at all. I'll keep an eye on the thread though in case there's anything I can contribute and just to see what you guys are getting up to
Nostromo87
12-16-14, 11:52 PM
BLOOD & BLACK LACE (1964)
Bava, Argento, virtuosos when it comes to style and the macabre. Looking forward to viewing other Italian horror talent, as well as more from these two. I love the colors, purples, blues, reds especially. Let's own something right now, talking about worldly sh!at in this thread, style, sex appeal kill-factor, that's Italian horror. That's giallo. Blood-soaked lingerie & classy dubbing. It's like Italian James Bond, pure jazzy-style. Definitely believe these giallos helped inspire slashers perfected by guys like Craven and Carpenter. In Blood & Black Lace, you get a thriller with gothic imagery, and a masked murderer with a claw-like kill weapon. Dialogue is simple yet direct and effective used with the horror imagery. Smoky fireplaces, atmosphere & spectacle, shadows & ambient lighting. I like Bava. He lulls you into a dream-state where plot is not essential.
Rating: rating_3_5 7.0 / 10
http://oi59.tinypic.com/2r7y9vs.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4h9HEpplb8
Your write-up is even stylish, nostromo. :D
I definitely feel like giallo helped inspire slashers. I also know that giallo influenced del Toro with his color palettes.
I added Blood and Black Lace to my To Watch list.
jiraffejustin
12-17-14, 03:31 AM
Try some Fulci, guys. Namely Don't Torture a Duckling and A Lizard in a Woman's Skin.
Fulci is somebody we've discussed behind-the-scenes. We'll get there, don't you worry.
This thread looks cool. I need to learn more about Giallo!
Later though you guys should review Audition.
Miike will probably be looked at pretty closely when we get around to looking at some of the wacky weirdness of japan.
So long as you watch Alice, Sweet Alice and What Have You Done To Solange? this thread'll be fine.
This thread'll be fine then, because I've had those bad boys on the watchlist for at least two years now. I just need a kick in the pants to get myself around to doing anything.
Your write-up is even stylish, nostromo. :D
I definitely feel like giallo helped inspire slashers. I also know that giallo influenced del Toro with his color palettes.
Color is one of my favorite things in all gialli I've seen. The obvious one is Suspiria, but all the other good ones seem to have some type of oozing color effect that drips all over the place. The modern-day giallo film-making couple of Hélène Cattet and Bruno Forzani nail the colors in Amer and The Strange Color of Your Body's Tears as well.
Miike has some pretty terrible movies too though... like Izo... *shudders*
Or Visitor Q... I saw the microphone pop into the shot three times before the half way mark.
The Cat o' Nine Tails
(Dario Argento, 1971)
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f145/ifiswan/the-cat-o-nine-tails-movie-poster-1971-1020745964_zpsd61c5336.jpg
Mr Minio
12-17-14, 08:14 AM
The Cat o' Nine Tails - 3.5
Compared to his electrifying debut, Argento's sophomore effort feels like a step back. Thankfully, it's only a step, not a giant leap. It's inferior and less memorable, but pretty enjoyable all the way throughout.
the samoan lawyer
12-17-14, 09:20 AM
I've just ordered The Bird with the Crystal Plumage and Deadly Outlaw: Rekka. Anyone know much about the latter? Was kind of a blind buy but its by Miike and sounds gloriously violent.
honeykid
12-17-14, 09:49 AM
As you're doing giallo atm, you might like to take a look at this, too.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/45/Berberian_Sound_Studio.jpg/220px-Berberian_Sound_Studio.jpg
I know it's well thought of, though I thought it lost it for the last 30 miniutes.
the samoan lawyer
12-17-14, 09:56 AM
I agree HK. In Berberian i was waiting for the shock moments that never really happened. For me it was a real let down as it started of well and had a real atmospheric feel about it. Did you like it HK?
Nostromo and I want to ressurect this thread so we thought we'd start fresh. Unfortunately JJ is kind of busy right now so he won't be joining in very often - but, JJ, if you ever find the opportunity to participate again, please do!
We will be moving on now to...
ROGER CORMAN MOVIES
http://content8.flixster.com/photo/65/15/67/6515674_ori.jpg
I'll put up the poster for the first film when nostromo gets his butt online and we decide which to watch.
X: The Man with the X-Ray Eyes
(Roger Corman, 1963)
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f145/ifiswan/22ec967c-cabc-482f-8c35-3a58d4b2bcb5_zpscg8gjbpz.jpg
Here's my write-up from my Movie a Day thread:
February 9, 2015:
X: The Man with the X-Ray Eyes (Roger Corman, 1963) - rating_3
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f145/ifiswan/22ec967c-cabc-482f-8c35-3a58d4b2bcb5_zpscg8gjbpz.jpg
This film played out like a Twilight Zone episode that's not quite as sophisticated as something Rod Serling would write. While I had plenty of fun and it was nothing but a good experience, I thought it was a case of a premise being far better in the viewer's imagination than the actual movie, and thus giving one high expectations before the movie begins. It reminded me of the ads in magazines for things you send money for, things like the men of the sea or, har har, x-ray glasses - things that are somewhat underwhelming when you get them. Still, it's a fun flick, I don't mean to be hatin'. I like Roger Corman. He might not be Kurosawa but he's quick and efficient, and that's something I admire greatly.
Overall, I had a good experience with it. I have some questions for nostromo, hopefully to get some discussion going.
1. Do you agree that this is a case of a premise being too good for the film, thus raising expectations?
2. What did you think of the production quality? Was it forgivable considering how quick Corman is, or did you wish it was a bit better?
3. How was the cast? Their characters?
4. Do you wish they used the x-ray vision more creatively, or did you feel it was done as well as it could have been?
5. How would you say this compares to the other Corman films you've seen (if any)?
Nostromo87
02-11-15, 11:26 PM
http://oi62.tinypic.com/sy00av.jpg
X: The Man With the X-Ray Eyes (1963)
By the title of the film you may mistakenly think you've stumbled onto a Marvel X-Man movie. Yet Roger Corman's tale about the enhancement of the sense of sight is handled different than that sort of comic book story. According to Dr James Xavier's research, we can only access 10% of the color wavelength. Dr Xavier dreams 'What could we see with access to the other 90%.' The thing i like about supernatural tales that are handled like this is they get your imagination going. An exploration of the senses and of untraveled human pathways. What could the power of enhanced vision bring? We have several very quick jarring shifts in the narrative, which keeps you on your toes. Dr Xavier quickly shifts from a curious doctor, to a man on the run after committing a murder, to a circus show freak. Makes for a dramatic hour and 20 minutes. Where do we end up with a guy who can see through anything...
http://oi62.tinypic.com/34ysco9.jpg
Vegas. Beautiful. ... if only Dr Xavier had been more intelligent and discreet about his gambling strategy ;D As for your questions Swan, felt the premise to be strong. Not high budget and the actors aren't very recognizable aside from Ray Milland, yet i didn't find that to be too much of a hindrance. The movie could have 'looked' better, as well as the x-vision sequences, for the early 60s i didn't find myself disappointed. This was different to the Vincent Price films i've seen from Roger Corman, enjoyable in its own unique way. I'm glad you picked this one and i found it worth the watch
Rating: rating_3_5 7.0 / 10
Cool nostromo. I think I came off too hard on the film. It was definitely a fun flick. I do think I prefer the Corman movies I've seen - the Poe ones, and Bucket of Blood. The production quality didn't affect it for me either.
Anyway, I guess we can move on. PMing you in a sec.
Little Shop of Horrors
(Roger Corman, 1960)
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f145/ifiswan/7e8a1a39-eb9f-47e6-9610-6557140baa2a_zpsfz5fkz9d.jpg
Okay, so until recently JJ was unable to do this thread, which is really why it fell apart. But he's free now so we are starting it back up! And as JJ and I have both been very interested in his work lately, we are resurrecting the thread with perhaps the man who defines trashy 70's horror...
LUCIO FULCI
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn187/bdfolsom/Fulci2_zps8h1ocdpk.jpg
So JJ, what's your history with Fulci?
I saw Zombie first, a number of years ago, and remember liking it but mainly the gore was what left an impression on me.
I then saw The House by the Cemetery. I know JJ didn't care much for it, because of duckboy, but I enjoyed it despite how annoying that kid is. I was just engaged, and I felt it had a very good climax with a great villain.
Then I saw The New York Ripper. Solid giallo, but for some reason I can't remember it that well. Will need to rewatch.
The other day, then, I saw Don't Torture the Duckling. Fulci is four for four with this one, and it had perhaps the best Fulci scene I have yet to see. I'm really excited for you to see this one, JJ, just for that scene. I felt like I was watching Sergio Leone direct a horror, with this one. I would call it a spaghetti horror.
Just today I rewatched Zombie, in a commentary, and was reminded of how great the gore and atmosphere was. However - and I'm wondering if this is because I watched it in a commentary - I felt like the characters were kind of dull and I wasn't so invested. I will need to give this a third watch to see just exactly how I feel.
Ultimately, as of now, when I think of Fulci I think of total trash, charming trash, fantastic gore, atmosphere, and moments of filmmaking brilliance. His films, so far, have all entertained me to no end, and have inspired the inner filmmaker in me. Excited to see some more, and rewatch some, or all, of the Fulci's I have already seen.
jiraffejustin
05-08-15, 01:11 AM
So JJ, what's your history with Fulci?
Zombie was the first Fulci I saw, it was a few years back during an October where I watched 31 films. It was part of some competition thing, but that's unimportant. I was in the infancy of my "cinephilia," if you will, and I hadn't really seen anything like it. From the gore, specifically that stake through they eye, the shark vs zombie scene, the soundtrack, and the awesome "last stand" scene, I loved it. I told my friends about it, but I don't think anybody else watched it, sadly.
Still I didn't further explore at that point, for some stupid reason. It took a while, but the second Fulci film I watched was when I was trying to watch more horror films from the 1980s: New York Ripper. I liked it a lot as well, it's incredibly sleazy and nasty fun.
Up next was The Beyond. At any given time my favorite Fulci film is either this or Zombie. I love how Fulci doesn't seem to be worried about the plot, I don't know if it's his intentions, but it adds a surrealist feel, to The Beyond in particular. It's like Un Chien Andalou, but with a little structure (sort of.) And that ending tho!
The House by the Cemetery: f*ck that little duckboy bitch.
Cool.
Anyway, here's our watchlist. We're going to choose at random, and we may add or remove from it at our leisure, but we wanted to post it so that if anyone wants to recommend a Fulci that is not on this list, they can do so.
http://letterboxd.com/bdfolsom/list/fulci-watchlist-for-trash-vault/
The Beyond
The New York Ripper
Zombie
A Lizard in a Woman's Skin
Don't Torture a Duckling
City of the Living Dead
The Black Cat
Contraband
Massacre Time
Four of the Apocalypse
One on Top of the Other
The Psychic
And with that, we begin with...
The Beyond
(Lucio Fulci, 1981)
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn187/bdfolsom/large_oXTgjCcPKd7O6QT7TQe6q83fIN0_zps3ja9bgvw.jpg
Captain Spaulding
05-08-15, 01:35 AM
I've only seen Zombie and City of the Living Dead.
I've been curious about Four of the Apocalypse. I'd like to see what a Fulci spaghetti western looks like.
jiraffejustin
05-08-15, 01:35 AM
I've seen The Beyond once before and I loved it. It's a bunch of wacky stuff going on and no discernible plot, but that's unimportant. It's filled with dogs ripping throats, a bunch of spiders killing somebody, and then we get some zombies. It's dope af fr fr.
I've seen The Beyond once before and I loved it. It's a bunch of wacky stuff going on and no discernible plot, but that's unimportant. It's filled with dogs ripping throats, a bunch of spiders killing somebody, and then we get some zombies. It's dope af fr fr.
Sounds like my kind of movie. I have high hopes for this one - I see it possibly being my favorite Fulci.
Just learned that nostromo is back in, too! Welcome back to the Trash Vault, nostromo!
the samoan lawyer
05-08-15, 09:48 AM
Nice one folks. Great thread. I have The Beyond on DVD in the house but not watched it yet. Looking forward to it now though. I think Zombi (which i own) is the only Fulci I have watched and I liked it the first time then loved it the second.
cricket
05-09-15, 09:42 AM
I think I've only seen The New York Ripper, and I thought it was pretty crappy.
Obviously I need to see Zombie.
Shame you didn't like New York RIpper cricket, but I was talking to someone else who was saying they don't really care for giallo either. Boggles my mind how someone could dislike giallo, but okay. :D
I changed my avatar to represent my favorite thread. :D
Should be watching The Beyond tonight or tomorrow.
MovieGal
05-09-15, 11:22 PM
I think you need to check out "Forced Entry"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0124596/
I think you need to check out "Forced Entry"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0124596/
Thanks for the rec, we'll keep it in mind if we ever do a theme it fits in.
Sexy Celebrity
05-09-15, 11:23 PM
Obviously I need to see Zombie.
You could see Zombie. Trust me -- you don't need to see Zombie.
So this was pretty much ones of the best films I’ve ever seen. Or maybe it's just exactly what I want to see right now - time will tell. I feel like I need to give it a rewatch quickly, because there was a lot to take in. I can kind of see what JJ means by comparing it to Bunuel, but I think it’s not quite as surreal - it just doesn’t explain everything and leaves it a bit more open to interpretation, which is perfect. It doesn’t complicate it with too much explanation, it keeps it relatively simple, and as some of you might know, I love simplicity in storytelling.
http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb8vs2Vv6x1qedb29o1_500.gif
This was also a bit different from other Fulci’s because I felt it was a little more supernatural and less gory. The gore was there, including possibly the creepiest spider-flesh-eating sequence I’ve ever seen, and it was all beautiful, but I feel like Fulci really had a story he was interested in here and wanted to focus on that.
And of course, the best Fulci film has to have his best score, too. It’s a sign of a great film when you hear the theme before the film, like it, but see the film and like it ten times more than you did before you saw it. That was the case for me with this one. Maybe because it reminds me of the superb ending.
http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb8vgtYbk11qedb29o1_500.gif
I'm kind of fawning over it, but I don't care. I don't care about criticizing films I really love. Constructive criticism is fine, and there's plenty to be found in all of my favorite films and every other film ever made. I guess I'm kind of an enthusiastic guy, because I just don't care about criticizing the stuff I love so much. Maybe JJ will pull some critique out of me, and that's fine, but if not, that's all the better.
I asked JJ to come up with some questions about the film for me to answer. He's going to be rewatching the film tonight.
jiraffejustin
05-12-15, 05:05 AM
I spoil the ending at the very end of this post, you've been warned.
Swan said that he thought the story was pretty important to Fulci here, and though I don't know if I fully agree, I can see where he is coming from. It's never told in a straight-forward narrative, but in a connected series of vignettes almost. I don't mean that it's a horror anthology or anything like that, but it just seems to fluidly bounce from character to character dying in a surreal and tense manner. It's a unique and satisfying way to see this story unfold, so I guess I agree with Swan more than I initially thought.
The only criticism I can think of doesn't seem too valid, but it's that it still takes a minute to get used to the dubbing style of dialogue present in these Italian grindhouse flicks. Still the dubbing in this video is way better than a lot of others, and that's probably because the characters are actually filmed speaking English. That's such a minor quibble that I don't even find it necessary to complain about, but I am grasping at straws here.
Perhaps only Argento can rival Fulci in terms of Italian horror directors with films with high levels of atmospheric horror. Argento goes the slick route, while Fulci goes with the nitty-gritty atmosphere, both employing fantastic Italian prog-rock. In the case of The Beyond, the atmosphere is nearly as surreal as Bunuel's Un Chien Andalou, I can't help but think that I am the only person making this connection and I can't put my finger on why. I'd love to show people who've never seen a surreal movie a triple feature of Un Chien Andalou, Eraserhead, and The Beyond. They are all horrific nightmares connected only by a strange vibe that I get from them. The Beyond's surreal vibe comes from the way it flows from death to death in a vignette-esque form with each being more bizarre than the last, and the setting is quite strange as well. We are told that we are in a smallish Louisiana town, but it never really seems that way. During a funeral a tall building and busy city is seen in the background, maybe I am weird for this, but I actually see this as a plus. I know some without imagination could trash this, but to me it totally fits. This movie is strange, and it doesn't need to be what it says it is. So surreal. And that ending. It's a recreation of a painting shown throughout the movie. A painting of Hell as our protagonists are now stuck in Hell.
I can truly say that this is one of my favorite horror films. The atmosphere is so eery and weird and wild and other adjectives that I can't pinpoint. The things I don't know how to describe make me like The Beyond more than the things I can.
jiraffejustin
05-12-15, 05:10 AM
Questions for Swan
1) I loved the atmosphere of the film, but I don't know how to describe it. Do you feel the same way? And how would you describe the atmosphere?
2) Does the dialogue dubbing ever bother you in these Italian grindhouse films?
3) Where would this rank amongst your favorite Italian horror films?
4) Fulci is one of the most nihilistic filmmakers I can think of, I think that works really well in a horror setting. Constant dread. Not really a question, just something I thought of while struggling to come up with questions.
jiraffejustin
05-12-15, 05:25 AM
One last thing for the night -
https://www.rottencotton.com/images/the-beyond-new.png
I own this shirt. It's awesome.
Ðèstîñy
05-12-15, 06:11 AM
OK, I don't believe I've seen any of these films. Who are we kidding, right. ;) I really liked some of the titles, so I read about a few. I want to check out The Black Cat first. I love black cats. I have always had them in my life since I was 15 years old. Yes, that would be 30 years now. Anyway, it sounds like something I would like. We shall see. No worries, though. I won't invade your thread with a bunch of chatter. Well, except for this post.
If you don't mind me asking, did he make any movies on either witches, or vampires?
jiraffejustin
05-12-15, 06:49 AM
I don't know if Fulci ever directed anything with vampires or witches, but I don't think he did, if so it wasn't one of his "major" films.
Swan said that he thought the story was pretty important to Fulci here, and though I don't know if I fully agree, I can see where he is coming from. It's never told in a straight-forward narrative, but in a connected series of vignettes almost. I don't mean that it's a horror anthology or anything like that, but it just seems to fluidly bounce from character to character dying in a surreal and tense manner. It's a unique and satisfying way to see this story unfold, so I guess I agree with Swan more than I initially thought.
I think it is especially when comparing it to Fulci's other work. I mean, compare it to Zombie. That movie is all about the gore, really - which isn't really a bad thing. But this one felt more interesting in the story department, for me anyway. Maybe because it felt unique in the pantheon of Fulci films. I mean, when you think about it, the guy is definitely interested in story. He didn't only do horror films. If his only mission was to produce gory scene after gory scene, he wouldn't have made any spaghetti westerns. So I think he probably doesn't get enough credit for his stories, and I think The Beyond is a fantastically told story, personally.
Perhaps only Argento can rival Fulci in terms of Italian horror directors with films with high levels of atmospheric horror. Argento goes the slick route, while Fulci goes with the nitty-gritty atmosphere, both employing fantastic Italian prog-rock. In the case of The Beyond, the atmosphere is nearly as surreal as Bunuel's Un Chien Andalou, I can't help but think that I am the only person making this connection and I can't put my finger on why. I'd love to show people who've never seen a surreal movie a triple feature of Un Chien Andalou, Eraserhead, and The Beyond. They are all horrific nightmares connected only by a strange vibe that I get from them. The Beyond's surreal vibe comes from the way it flows from death to death in a vignette-esque form with each being more bizarre than the last, and the setting is quite strange as well. We are told that we are in a smallish Louisiana town, but it never really seems that way. During a funeral a tall building and busy city is seen in the background, maybe I am weird for this, but I actually see this as a plus. I know some without imagination could trash this, but to me it totally fits. This movie is strange, and it doesn't need to be what it says it is. So surreal. And that ending. It's a recreation of a painting shown throughout the movie. A painting of Hell as our protagonists are now stuck in Hell.
That triple feature would be bonkers. I think it's a neat, thought-provoking comparison I probably never would have made. I think the film does have surreal elements, for sure, just not as heavily as Un Chien Andalou.
Questions for Swan
1) I loved the atmosphere of the film, but I don't know how to describe it. Do you feel the same way? And how would you describe the atmosphere?
I get you. I said it before, but this feels different from Fulci'is other films for some reason. The atmosphere is a bit different. If I had to sum it up, I might call it "surreal gore-trash". Really kind of an odd thing, I feel, but one that is oh so beautiful.
The only criticism I can think of doesn't seem too valid, but it's that it still takes a minute to get used to the dubbing style of dialogue present in these Italian grindhouse flicks. Still the dubbing in this video is way better than a lot of others, and that's probably because the characters are actually filmed speaking English. That's such a minor quibble that I don't even find it necessary to complain about, but I am grasping at straws here.
2) Does the dialogue dubbing ever bother you in these Italian grindhouse films?
I think it adds to the trashy charm, but I get you. I really want to show a friend of mine who likes horror movies some Fulci and Argento, but I'm afraid he'll be turned off by the dubbing and/or find it humorous. It's just something you have to embrace or look past, or kind of a mixture of the two. It doesn't bother me, obviously, as I f*cking love Italian horror.
3) Where would this rank amongst your favorite Italian horror films?
It's hard to say right now, but I feel like it's at the top. Like I said, this feels not just like one of the best horrors I've seen, but one of the best films in general. It's a fantastic mixture of a bunch of the kinds of things I love in cinema - horror, surrealism, weirdness, fun gore. Simplicity in storytelling. Etc.
I think Fulci is really underrated when compared to Argento. I mean, yeah, he's total trash, but there are bits in his films that are seriously as lyrically poetic as anything Argento did (I'm still thinking about that scene I mentioned loving in Don't Torture a Duckling). I f*cking love Argento, but I love Fulci too. two different styles and I think both are two of my current favorite directors. And The Beyond gives anything Argento did a serious run for its money.
4) Fulci is one of the most nihilistic filmmakers I can think of, I think that works really well in a horror setting. Constant dread. Not really a question, just something I thought of while struggling to come up with questions.
I agree. His stuff is brutal, man. I'm excited to see his spaghetti westerns for that reason. The nihilistic feeling works really well in the old west setting, I feel.
OK, I don't believe I've seen any of these films. Who are we kidding, right. ;) I really liked some of the titles, so I read about a few. I want to check out The Black Cat first. I love black cats. I have always had them in my life since I was 15 years old. Yes, that would be 30 years now. Anyway, it sounds like something I would like. We shall see. No worries, though. I won't invade your thread with a bunch of chatter. Well, except for this post.
If you don't mind me asking, did he make any movies on either witches, or vampires?
I don't think so - like JJ, I can't say for sure though. Fulci is more of a zombie guy.
But if you want two good Italian horror films about witches, check out two of the big titans of Italian horror: Black Sunday and Suspiria. You can't go wrong with either. They are wonderful films.
jiraffejustin
05-12-15, 08:25 AM
I think it is especially when comparing it to Fulci's other work. I mean, compare it to Zombie. That movie is all about the gore, really - which isn't really a bad thing. But this one felt more interesting in the story department, for me anyway. Maybe because it felt unique in the pantheon of Fulci films. I mean, when you think about it, the guy is definitely interested in story. He didn't only do horror films. If his only mission was to produce gory scene after gory scene, he wouldn't have made any spaghetti westerns. So I think he probably doesn't get enough credit for his stories, and I think The Beyond is a fantastically told story, personally.
I get you. I said it before, but this feels different from Fulci'is other films for some reason. The atmosphere is a bit different. If I had to sum it up, I might call it "surreal gore-trash". Really kind of an odd thing, I feel, but one that is oh so beautiful.
I think Fulci is really underrated when compared to Argento. I mean, yeah, he's total trash, but there are bits in his films that are seriously as lyrically poetic as anything Argento did (I'm still thinking about that scene I mentioned loving in Don't Torture a Duckling). I f*cking love Argento, but I love Fulci too. two different styles and I think both are two of my current favorite directors. And The Beyond gives anything Argento did a serious run for its money.
I do think it's a well told story, but I am struggling to place my finger on how it's told. I know that there is a narrative form, but it feels like a vivid dream that you are trying to remember a few days later. I wish I could do a better job with my words or that you could enter my brain for this one, because I can't express what it is I am thinking. There is a quality in this film that's almost mystic. There's no doubt in my mind that Fulci is a great artist. He pulls out the sleaze in some things like The New York Ripper, but I wouldn't hesitate to call The Beyond an artsy film. Any film fan with an open mind could probably see it as well, even if they aren't horror-heads.
I agree. His stuff is brutal, man. I'm excited to see his spaghetti westerns for that reason. The nihilistic feeling works really well in the old west setting, I feel.
I agree. If you haven't seen The Great Silence, see it.
I do think it's a well told story, but I am struggling to place my finger on how it's told. I know that there is a narrative form, but it feels like a vivid dream that you are trying to remember a few days later. I wish I could do a better job with my words or that you could enter my brain for this one, because I can't express what it is I am thinking. There is a quality in this film that's almost mystic. There's no doubt in my mind that Fulci is a great artist. He pulls out the sleaze in some things like The New York Ripper, but I wouldn't hesitate to call The Beyond an artsy film. Any film fan with an open mind could probably see it as well, even if they aren't horror-heads.
It's definitely told like a dream, but that's what I mean. That's still story. It's still narrative. The other films I've seen by him, relative to this film, are more conventional stories. That's why I think he was more focused on the storytelling aspect with this film.
I agree. If you haven't seen The Great Silence, see it.
Nice, I'll check it out. :cool:
Nostroman gave us the go ahead to move on to the next film, and said he'll catch up. Thanks man!
Next up is...
A Lizard in a Woman's Skin
(Lucio Fulci, 1971)
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn187/bdfolsom/85ce447f-26fc-48bf-97f2-2fa1be142c9b_zpsjbqcjvu0.jpg
jiraffejustin
05-27-15, 12:23 PM
Rather than attempt to put forth a work of technical wizardry, Fulci was typically much more interested in the ugliness of the world in film form. Often times his approach was centered on his desire to make a film nihilistically depict the moral depravity of humanity. So rather than trying to get every frame to look picture-perfect, he gives us bleak, nasty, gritty, disgusting, and often times surreal imagery. I think he's quite the opposite of most filmmakers in this regard, as he doesn't want to show us beauty like most others desire, he shows us the truth of what the world is to him. That's not to say other filmmakers shy away from this, but Fulci seemed to find a way to make every shot a reminder of his nihilism.
I am not an expert on Lucio Fulci, and admittedly I can only say what I am saying based on the films he made from Zombie on to The New York Ripper with a few films in between being missed. Not a full filmography to really work with, so perhaps what I've seen is just his progression. A Lizard in a Woman's Skin depicts the world's ugliness, sure, but it's a bit different from the other Fulci films I've seen. It's dazzling from a camerawork perspective. It reminded me of Argento's gialli output, but still distinctly Fulcian(?) with some true-to-Fulci-form gore. If Argento was a surgeon, Fulci was a mad doctor stitching body parts together for the insane purpose of showing how ugly the world can be. Fulci was nearly sent to prison for a scene that had to proven to be "movie magic." The disembowled dog scene. Fulci's most beautiful?
I still think I prefer Zombie and The Beyond, but this isn't far off.
Nice JJ. I agree with you, though I want to say I do think Fulci is still capable as a technical director. I know you haven't seen it yet, but Don't Torture a Duckling has one of the best scenes I've ever seen. It not only embodies his nihilistic point of view flawlessly but is beautiful on a technical level as well. I see Fulci as a very capable auteur, personally. However, I'm with you in the sense that I think his primary goal is to show the ugliness of humanity, and I actually feel the trashy style really compliments that philosophy well.
Anyway, nice write-up. I'm eager to get to it. I watched the first minute the other day just for fun, and this seems like Fulci's weirdest. I'll get to it ASAP.
jiraffejustin
05-27-15, 01:11 PM
I think his "trashiness" is a stylistic choice, and Lizard is proof that he could make those technically great films. I just think, as you do, that his interest lied in making grimy filth. Fulci seems to have devolved into the filth, trash, sleaze, and gore from his once technically proficient days. I'll assume his early 70s output of "traditional" gialli was similar to Lizard which would make my statement true. I don't mean that in condescending form either, it just makes sense for me to refer to it as such. I think Lucio Fulci is a great director, sadly I don't think his style will ever lead to this as a widely accepted belief.
Do you get what I am saying? I love his filthy, trashy, sleazy, gory films. I think they are some of the most artistic horror films ever made. He chooses to make them in grimy fashion, but they excel where other gore films don't. Most trash/gore films have value due to the silliness, but Fulci can really hit you in the stomach with his.
I get you, and I agree. I don't think you're being condescending at all. I love this about Fulci, I love that his films are so trashy and nihilistic. It's part of why I'm starting to consider him a favorite director of mine. There's really nothing quite like Fulci.
New title, same great thread. :cool:
BlueLion
05-27-15, 02:22 PM
Seen two films by Fulci so far and based on those two films that description by JJ sounds pretty accurate.
I should probably check out Zombie next.
Which ones have you seen, BlueLion? I know you've seen The Beyond - what else?
BlueLion
05-27-15, 02:31 PM
The New York Ripper.
I thought The Beyond was Bava for some reason.
:laugh: Nope.
I need to see more Bava.
the samoan lawyer
05-28-15, 09:47 AM
Think i'm gonna give The Beyond a go tonight.
Hope you like it, samoan!
So I'm finally watching this when all of the sudden GIANT F*CKING SWAN!
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