Ask me anything about basketball

[mlaturno]

Well, the NBA. I know a lot.

[The Rodent]

What are the black lines on a Basketball called?

[The Rodent]

How many times has Michael Jordan bounced the ball on the floor?

[Nostromo87]

Ask me anything about basketball. Well, the NBA. I know a lot.

what will DeMarcus Cousins' stat-line be this year, per game ?

FG%, FT%, Points, Rebounds, Assists, Steals, Blocks, Turnovers

[mlaturno]

How many times has Michael Jordan bounced the ball on the floor?
0

When your arm can stretch like that, why would you ever need to?

[mlaturno]

what will DeMarcus Cousins' stat-line be this year, per game ?

FG%, FT%, Points, Rebounds, Assists, Steals, Blocks, Turnovers

Boogie's an interesting one. Clearly incredibly talented, and - while Mike Malone has shown promise as a coach - he hasn't shown that he can develop players any better than anyone else has with the Kings. I'm a little worried about Stauskas, but I do think he'll be less susceptible to the mental lapses that plagued Maclemore.

Despite IT being a pretty solid point, Cousins didn't rely too much on his passing to get buckets. Collison's definitely an underwhelming starter starter, but Boogie's playstyle + natural progression as a player I think might offset that.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and predict Stauskas will end up a 2nd team all-rook. His spacing will hopefully open the floor up for him a bit and ease the transition from IT to Darren, so I'm guessing we'll see around 24 ppg / 12.5 rpg from Cousins. I think his turnover number will stay at around 4. He's gonna get obliterated on defense though; he still has no one to help him out and his lateral movement's not gonna magically get better.

[Nostromo87]

like the write-up, i'd be happy with that

Nerlens Noel, same question

[mlaturno]

like the write-up, i'd be happy with that

Nerlens Noel, same question

There's nothing to really go off of here, so it's tough to say. I'm pretty high on him, but I think he did come out of last year's draft red flagged medically + recent big man have been so injury prone it's tough to really go out on a limb for him and say he'll succeed. If he does make it I'd say (best case scenario) I think he projects as a rich man's Tyson Chandler which, yeah, is pretty ****in great. So you've potentially got -

A poor man's Hakeem (and a prospect - had he been healthy - just behind Lebron, Oden, Davis, and Durant as best of this century.)
A rich man's Chandler
A point forward Chandler Parsons

MCW

If they can land Mudiay, Jesus Christ.

[mlaturno]

Predictions for the year

1.cavs - 61
2.bulls - 53
3.hornets - 52
4.toronto - 45
5.washington - 44
6.miami - 43
7.atlanta - 39
8.brooklyn - 37
9.new york - 33
10.milwaukee - 30
11.indiana - 25
12.orlando - 23
13.detroit - 23
14.philly - 20
15.boston - 18

cavs over brooklyn in 4
bulls over atlanta in 5
miami over hornets in 6
washington over toronto in 7

cavs over washington in 5
bulls over miami in 7

cavs over bulls in 6

1.spurs - 60
2.clippers - 59
3.okc - 57
4.warriors - 56
5.dallas - 56
6.houston - 52
7.portland - 50
8.memphis - 49
9.new orleans - 45
10.phoenix - 42
11.denver - 40
12.minnesota - 25
13.sacramento - 25
14.utah - 22
15.lakers - 16

spurs over memphis in 7
clippers over portland in 5
okc over houston in 4
warriors over dallas in 7

warriors over spurs in 7
clippers over okc in 7

clippers over warriors in 6

Cavs over Clippers in 6

Finals MVP - Lebron
MVP - Lebron
MIP - Kemba Walker
Sixth Man - Pau Gasol
Rookie of the year - Jabari
COY - Platt

1st team all league
steph curry
chris paul
kevin durant
lebron
anthony davis

2nd team all league
kyrie
westbrook
aldridge
blake
al jefferson

3rd team all league
kemba
harden
melo
kawhi
joakim noah

1st all rookie team
noel
jabari
wiggins
jusuf nurkic
mcbuckets

2nd team all rookie
mcgary
napier
smart
payne
cleanthony early or stauskas

[mlaturno]

Steven Adams is also gonna have a breakout season.

[Nostromo87]

so, rookie year for Noel,

14.0 PTS 8.0 REB 2.0 BLK
.500 FG % .600 FT%

worse? better?

[Nostromo87]

what are your thoughts on Elfrid Payton?

i see he didn't make your 1st or 2nd All-Rookie team

[mlaturno]

so, rookie year for Noel,

14.0 PTS 8.0 REB 2.0 BLK
.500 FG % .600 FT%

worse? better?

I'd definitely bet under on fg%. He's not a guy who can really create for himself and he's going to be forced to. That's why MCW teetered around 39/40% through last year... he's a first year point guard who struggles with his jump shot and he's surrounded by guys who can't help him. And really, the only two other guys who had any business in this league were traded away over the summer so it'll probably be even tougher. Still, no NBA team will dip below 70 or so ppg, and they've gotta get those stats somewhere. I do think Sims is underrated and will come out as a solid (probably back-up for a good team) center. On an average team, I'd peg Noel for 7 or 8 points a game, but who knows. Wouldn't doubt he reaches the blocks number.

I have worries about how Noel will do rebounding at the next level. He's put on some size, but his shoulders are so small and his frame is still so slight, I don't know if he'll be able to bang around with these guys. He should be able to hit 60% of his free throws though.

[mlaturno]

what are your thoughts on Elfrid Payton?

i see he didn't make your 1st or 2nd All-Rookie team

You know, I actually like him quite a bit, but he's not a shooter, and it usually takes some time for slashers to adjust to NBA level play. He's not gonna have any space to move though. Who's spreading the floor out for him? He and Oladipo will be terrifying defensively, but I'm not sure they're great together on the other side of the floor. I also think that Orlando's put a bit of a cap on how good they can be by drafting for fit. Aaron Gordon may well be a good player, but I don't think he'll ever be an allstar. He's a very good complementary piece... but that means you're relying on Vuc to develop into your scorer down low... which is fine and would be one of the better big man tandems in the league, but then who's your star? Is there an all-star on this team? Are they building a team designed to win 38-42 games 2 years from now? I think so.

[Nostromo87]

you know your stuff, definitely better than me, might hit this thread back up tomorrow. off to bed for now

thanks shaq, err, mlaturno

[mlaturno]

you know your stuff, definitely better than me, might hit this thread back up tomorrow. off to bed for now

thanks shaq, err, mlaturno

Yeah, I used to have an NBA podcast and ****, been following it really closely for a while now.

Take care man

[jamierreed92]

Have you read The Book of Basketball by Bill Simmons?

[mlaturno]

Have you read The Book of Basketball by Bill Simmons?

Bill Simmons is the ****in' man. He may overrely on "truthiness" a bit, but that's a large part about what makes him (and sports in general) so fun. The guy's an unbelievably charismatic writer and (often much) more insightful than his critics give him credit for. He's one of the very few unequivocally good guys in sports journalism.

Bill and Jalen>>>>>>

[jamierreed92]

Bill Simmons is the ****in' man. He may overrely on "truthiness" a bit, but that's a large part about what makes him (and sports in general) so fun. The guy's an unbelievably charismatic writer and (often much) more insightful than his critics give him credit for. He's one of the very few unequivocally good guys in sports journalism.

Bill and Jalen>>>>>>
FINALLY someone who appreciates Bill Simmons and how incredible he is at what he does! I was rather impressed by how well written and consistently interesting this book was. He seemed to transition his writing style from Journalist to Author flawlessly! I feel like people hate on him because it is easy to hate someone who is so opinionated, stubborn, argumentative, and cocky. Basically, a fan first, everything else second (which I think people actually secretly appreciate, because it preserves everything we love about sports) I don't always agree with him either, but I SO appreciate that he is more interested in satisfying his passion than satisfying an audience.

[mlaturno]

FINALLY someone who appreciates Bill Simmons and how incredible he is at what he does! I was rather impressed by how well written and consistently interesting this book was. He seemed to transition his writing style from Journalist to Author flawlessly! I feel like people hate on him because it is easy to hate someone who is so opinionated, stubborn, argumentative, and cocky. Basically, a fan first, everything else second (which I think people actually secretly appreciate, because it preserves everything we love about sports) I don't always agree with him either, but I SO appreciate that he is more interested in satisfying his passion than satisfying an audience.

You like Zache Lowe?

[mlaturno]

Actually, **** Bill for not finishing the Countdown. They broke my heart.

[cricket]

Here's a question-

Will the NBA ever be good again?

[mlaturno]

Here's a question-

Will the NBA ever be good again?

This coming season's gonna be awesome. An increase in uncertainty = an increase in parity. Cavs are going to be transcendent offensively, but who's there to defend? The Spurs team of 2014 was one of the greatest championship teams of all time, but they're getting older + historically, they haven't followed championship seasons well. The Bulls are crazy deep, but Rose is made of glass. Etc. Etc. Even the bad teams have a lot of exciting stuff going for them. Terrific rookie class. Will Giannis be succesful as the world's talest point? Will the alpha dog in Wiggins come out? Will Kobe murder Swaggy? There's a lot to think about.

Here's something I've thought about for a while. What if games were decided by quarters won? Each quarter would be... 14 minutes let's say. Best 3 out of 4. Each quarter would feel like the fourth does now and be important. If they go split 2/2, then whoever had the most points would win. So that would still be important. Would be so awesome.

[Camo]

Here's a question-

Will the NBA ever be good again?

If you don't enjoy it now, then no! The NBA is the only league i regularly follow out of the main NA sports, but when you look at the rule changes in the NFL a sport that revolves around pyshical contact; a sport that i don't watch but from what i've read the Defence has been heavily hampered and fouls are called alot easier. Then the NBA is in trouble.

Last year i caught quite a bit of the playoffs and i was appaled at how frequent fouls were called and how weak the offences usually were, when the MVP - Durant is posting big numbers because he has multiple Free Throws something is not right. Not to mention the Free Throws were usually the difference in alot of matches, especially the Thunder-Clippers matches.

Football (Soccer) is usually rightfully criticsized for diving and weak fouls, but the NBA at least is a much worse offender as Free Throws make the difference in matches more than Penalties do imo.

[cricket]

I used to be a big NBA fan but haven't watched in a couple years. I grew up watching it in the 80's and 90's when it seemed to be more of a team game. I don't know if I'll ever watch again; gambling took a lot of my enjoyment from all sports.

[mlaturno]

I used to be a big NBA fan but haven't watched in a couple years. I grew up watching it in the 80's and 90's when it seemed to be more of a team game. I don't know if I'll ever watch again; gambling took a lot of my enjoyment from all sports.

Late 90s/early 2000s basketball saw a ton of iso-ball and some really ugly play. With the rise in analytics, the game's probably as well played as it ever has been. Last year's Spurs were about as perfect as you can get.

[Skepsis93]

Why is basketball?

[doubledenim]

What is your thought on the Hornets' drafting Vonleh?

[jiraffejustin]

Bruh, nah. Bulls > Cavs and OKC, Spurs > Clips. But good call on Steven Adams "breaking out." I kind of consider his playoff performances breaking out though.

[mlaturno]

What is your thought on the Hornets' drafting Vonleh?

Not much. I don't see a whole ton of potential there but, hey, if he were gonna succeed anywhere, this would probably be the place. Great team. Great coach. A need for a floor spacing big (which is what he'll likely have to establish himself as if he wants to make it in this league). I never thought much of him in college though.

[mlaturno]

Bruh, nah. Bulls > Cavs and OKC, Spurs > Clips. But good call on Steven Adams "breaking out." I kind of consider his playoff performances breaking out though.

If Joakim (who's having serious leg issues), Rose (who's made of glass), and Pau (a good friend of Christ's) can all stay healthy and effective throughout the season, they'd be just a little worse. If either Nikola or McBuckets can be near all-star caliber players, they should be favored over them. That's a lot to get right.

OKC>Spurs
Spurs>Clippers
Clippers>OKC

We're looking at a game of rock paper scissors in the West.

[doubledenim]

Not much. I don't see a whole ton of potential there but, hey, if he were gonna succeed anywhere, this would probably be the place. Great team. Great coach. A need for a floor spacing big (which is what he'll likely have to establish himself as if he wants to make it in this league). I never thought much of him in college though.

I just don't see how they could pass on McDermott, regardless of need. I hope I'm wrong.

[matt72582]

I liked Bill's book.... The secret - Isiah Thomas.. Has nothing to do with basketball..

Detroit will win more than 23 games. I've been watching basketball (and playing) since the age of 6.

It was horrible to see a rookie break his leg in his first game. It was nice Kobe tried messing with Dwight..

Anthony Davis > Kevin Durant

Defense wins it every time... Every year.

[jiraffejustin]

I'd just like to know what pushes the Clips over OKC now?

[jiraffejustin]

Anthony Davis > Kevin Durant


:rolleyes:

Bro. Anthony Davis is going to be really good, but come on, playa.

[mlaturno]

I liked Bill's book.... The secret - Isiah Thomas.. Has nothing to do with basketball..

Detroit will win more than 23 games. I've been watching basketball (and playing) since the age of 6.

It was horrible to see a rookie break his leg in his first game. It was nice Kobe tried messing with Dwight..

Anthony Davis > Kevin Durant

Defense wins it every time... Every year.

Yeah, I was just trying to balance out the records so that I wouldn't be wayyyyyy over the total number of wins possible for a season and ****ed up. The Pistons will absolutely be better than 23 wins. You could probably expect 33 out of them.

AD is absolutely not better than Durant. He's not even a great defender yet. He's got all the tools (and this will probably the year he'll turn the corner on that end), but he's a ltitle too jump happy still and has found himself out of position too often. He's still a good defender, but not yet great (but, again, he probably will be this year - especially with a guy like asik next to him).

[mlaturno]

Here's an article I wrote a while ago about reforming the draft: http://badmanbureau.com/2014/05/01/lets-talk-about-tanking/

Thoughts?

[matt72582]

Anthony Davis > Durant

Durant is soft. Doesn't play defense, relies too much on jumpers.

[mlaturno]

Anthony Davis > Durant

Durant is soft. Doesn't play defense, relies too much on jumpers.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v92/nimannn/BasketballPass.jpg

[jiraffejustin]

Durant is not soft. Skinny doesn't mean soft. I will agree that sometimes he does rely too much on his jump shot, but obviously he's good at shooting, so I never get upset when he pops one. Durant not playing defense just isn't true, I think that's just a narrative thing, maybe you've bought into it.

[mlaturno]

Durant is not soft. Skinny doesn't mean soft. I will agree that sometimes he does rely too much on his jump shot, but obviously he's good at shooting, so I never get upset when he pops one. Durant not playing defense just isn't true, I think that's just a narrative thing, maybe you've bought into it.

He does? Don't concede just for the sake of it. Statistically speaking, Durant may be the best scorer the NBA's ever seen.

[jiraffejustin]

He does? Don't concede just for the sake of it. Statistically speaking, Durant may be the best scorer the NBA's ever seen.

:up:

You're right.

[matt72582]

For a quick guy, Durant gets beat off the dribble so much. Doesn't help much, he does gamble a lot to get steals. Westbrook might not be the best pg, but he plays defense well. I don't care that he's skinny, but I never see him boxing out, or playing as hard as some other great players. Durant doesn't have a post game. He has a quick release and relies on jumpshots too much. They had a great team when they went to the Finals, and lost in 5.

All I said was that I think Davis is better. He's younger too. People might confuse great players with those on commercials. Even back when I first started watching basketball, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, and Charles Barkley were horrible on defense. To be a great player, you gotta play both ends. I think defense is more important anyway. look at every team who has won the title, they were either the best defensive team, or close to it.

[jiraffejustin]

What elements of Davis' game make him a better player than KD?

[matt72582]

Much better defender, rebounder, shot blocker, setting picks.. The only thing he can't do better thaN Durant is shoot, and I prefer a guy to score his points in the paint.

[Kaplan]

He does? Don't concede just for the sake of it. Statistically speaking, Durant may be the best scorer the NBA's ever seen.

Maybe if we're living in an alternate universe in which a certain Michael Jordan never played. Last year's 32.0 ppg was still less than MJ averaged for his entire career with the Bulls, with a fg% over 50%.

But otherwise Durant is my favorite player today, but I've not been happy with the role players they've surrounded him with, and I can't stand Perkins, who's a complete waste of payroll.

Things that are exciting for me about this year's season: The Lakers suck! The Bulls might finally be on track to make it back to the Finals. The Spurs still look great, and I hope the situation with Leonard gets resolved, if it hasn't been already. And I doubt the Cavs make it to the Finals, though anything is possible in the East, but there's no way they're winning it all. I dislike Lebron more every year he plays, and it'll be amusing and annoying at the same time to track how many star players he tries to persuade to come to Cleveland so he can win another title, because I don't see the current line up being enough.

[jiraffejustin]

Perkins isn't a waste. He is perfect for our annual playoff matchup with Memphis.

[mlaturno]

Maybe if we're living in an alternate universe in which a certain Michael Jordan never played. Last year's 32.0 ppg was still less than MJ averaged for his entire career with the Bulls, with a fg% over 50%.

That second sentence actually isn't true. He averaged 31.5 while in Chicago. Incredibly impressive, but still.

Field goal is a pretty inaccurate way to judge efficiency. TS% is a significantly more telling statistic. In Jordan's most efficient season ('89), his TS% was 61... a really incredible/historic number... but Durant last year's was 64% and that wasn't even the most efficient year of his career. Durant averaged 1.54 points per shot last season. Jordan averaged .94 points per shot over his career and never crossed 1.3 pps in a single season... again, still an incredible number. The only way to be fair about these comparisons is to judge for pace and shot type and that's what these stats do.

Jordan's was (in my mind) absolutely the superior overall player but if we're talking JUST scoring? I'd have to think about that.


But otherwise Durant is my favorite player today, but I've not been happy with the role players they've surrounded him with, and I can't stand Perkins, who's a complete waste of payroll.


Watch out for Steven Adams. He's going to be a very good center for a very long time. Serge Ibaka is a top powerforward in the league. Could definitely argue him over a guy like Aldridge to me. Russ is a top pointguard, even if he does dumb things and gambles too much on d. They've actually got a pretty great roster around him. And they're not starting Perk as much anymore. And Brooks can't play Fish anymore. That's all addition by subtraction.

+ Did you see Perry Jones tonight? God damn.


Things that are exciting for me about this year's season: The Lakers suck! The Bulls might finally be on track to make it back to the Finals. The Spurs still look great, and I hope the situation with Leonard gets resolved, if it hasn't been already. And I doubt the Cavs make it to the Finals, though anything is possible in the East, but there's no way they're winning it all. I dislike Lebron more every year he plays, and it'll be amusing and annoying at the same time to track how many star players he tries to persuade to come to Cleveland so he can win another title, because I don't see the current line up being enough.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1N5p8IXzNdc/hqdefault.jpg

[mlaturno]

Perkins isn't a waste. He is perfect for our annual playoff matchup with Memphis.

He's pretty terrible now, but he was key in changing the culture of that team initially.

[mlaturno]

For a quick guy, Durant gets beat off the dribble so much. Doesn't help much, he does gamble a lot to get steals. Westbrook might not be the best pg, but he plays defense well. I don't care that he's skinny, but I never see him boxing out, or playing as hard as some other great players. Durant doesn't have a post game. He has a quick release and relies on jumpshots too much. They had a great team when they went to the Finals, and lost in 5.

All I said was that I think Davis is better. He's younger too. People might confuse great players with those on commercials. Even back when I first started watching basketball, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, and Charles Barkley were horrible on defense. To be a great player, you gotta play both ends. I think defense is more important anyway. look at every team who has won the title, they were either the best defensive team, or close to it.

http://media.giphy.com/media/O5NyCibf93upy/giphy.gif

[Kaplan]

That second sentence actually isn't true. He averaged 31.5 while in Chicago. Incredibly impressive, but still.

Okay, you got me. I thought it was over 32 a game, but it was slightly below. A half a point below Durant's best scoring season. I think my point does stand, given Jordan played with the Bulls till age 35, retired in the prime of his career before coming back, and won 6 championships in the process. It is very, very rare for a team to win a Championship with the league's top scorer for that season. Jordan was the league's top scorer all six years they won it all.

Field goal is a pretty inaccurate way to judge efficiency. TS% is a significantly more telling statistic. In Jordan's most efficient season ('89), his TS% was 61... a really incredible/historic number... but Durant last year's was 64% and that wasn't even the most efficient year of his career. Durant averaged 1.54 points per shot last season. Jordan averaged .94 points per shot over his career and never crossed 1.3 pps in a single season... again, still an incredible number. The only way to be fair about these comparisons is to judge for pace and shot type and that's what these stats do.

I wouldn't say fg% is inaccurate. It may not tell the whole story, but then no stat does. That's the thing about stats, they don't lie, but they may not be telling you everything. One advantage Durant has is his ability to get to the FT line and he's an outstanding FT shooter. I recall Jordan saying the one aspect of his game he regrets not having been better at is his FT shooting, though he was a really good FT shooter. But Durant is better, and he's playing in an era that favors the offense far more than in the the 90s. Just sayin'.

Besides, your comment was "best scorer." But it sounds like you meant most efficient. I will continue to go with the guy who averaged more points per game than anyone and did it while shooting 50% from the field as a guard, and whose playoffs numbers were even higher and whose ppg in the Finals was even higher still.

Jordan's was (in my mind) absolutely the superior overall player...

Oh, absolutely!

Watch out for Steven Adams. He's going to be a very good center for a very long time. Serge Ibaka is a top powerforward in the league. Could definitely argue him over a guy like Aldridge to me. Russ is a top pointguard, even if he does dumb things and gambles too much on d. They've actually got a pretty great roster around him. And they're not starting Perk as much anymore. And Brooks can't play Fish anymore. That's all addition by subtraction.

It did seem to me that they had better role players last year, and from what you say, they'll be good this year. In the meanwhile, they've lost Durant and now Westbrook for who knows how long. Still, I'll be rooting for the Spurs the whole way this year, and then I hope OKC can storm back next year and start shaking up the league.

[mlaturno]

I wouldn't say fg% is inaccurate. It may not tell the whole story, but then no stat does. That's the thing about stats, they don't lie, but they may not be telling you everything. One advantage Durant has is his ability to get to the FT line and he's an outstanding FT shooter. I recall Jordan saying the one aspect of his game he regrets not having been better at is his FT shooting, though he was a really good FT shooter. But Durant is better, and he's playing in an era that favors the offense far more than in the the 90s. Just sayin'.

Besides, your comment was "best scorer." But it sounds like you meant most efficient. I will continue to go with the guy who averaged more points per game than anyone and did it while shooting 50% from the field as a guard, and whose playoffs numbers were even higher and whose ppg in the Finals was even higher still.


Durant gets more out of individual shots than Jordan did. He doesn't score more than Jordan, but he also doesn't take nearly as many shots per game. The season Jordan scored 37ppg he took 28 shots per game. Last season, averaging 32 points, Durant averaged just under 21. How many more points would an extra 7 shots have gotten him?


And of course FG% isn't inaccurate in and of itself. I didn't say that. Stats are stats. All I said was that it wasn't the best way to judge scoring prowess.[/QUOTE]

[matt72582]

The rules are much different. Fouls that weren't even called back in the late 80's would be flagrant fouls now. The NBA wanted higher scoring, especially after the Pistons-Spurs in a decade ago, so the offensive player is awarded.

I think Steven Adams is such an underrated player. Perkins helped the Celts win a title. He's got toughness, defense, etc... It's too bad that OKC have their two best players injured.

I think the Cavs have a really good chance to make it to the Finals, although I prefer the Bulls. But they've always been surrounded with injuries. I think Gasol should come off the bench. You already have a great passing center with Noah, and with Taj who can play on both ends, Pau could be used as the main offensive guy as a 6th man. He'd score just as much, get others easy baskets, and wouldn't have to defend the best, and at his age, be saved some energy.

My Pistons aren't winning a thing, so I'm rooting for the Spurs again.

[jiraffejustin]

I think Steven Adams is such an underrated player. Perkins helped the Celts win a title. He's got toughness, defense, etc... It's too bad that OKC have their two best players injured.


It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't 4 out of the top 6 injured. I am legitimately worried about our chances of making the playoffs now. I wish OKC was in the East right now. ugh.

[Kaplan]

And of course FG% isn't inaccurate in and of itself. I didn't say that. Stats are stats. All I said was that it wasn't the best way to judge scoring prowess.[/quote]

You said, "Field goal is a pretty inaccurate way to judge efficiency." That's what I was responding to. What did you think I was responding to? I understand everything you're saying. I understand your point.

Durant shoots and makes more 3-pointers than did Jordan. That's the nature of today's game. These guys have been practicing the 3-point shot since the moment they could heave the basketball twenty feet through the air. It was not so thirty years ago. And I'm with Popovich in not liking the 3-pointer, but that it's a vital part of the game today. Also Durant makes a higher percentage of this FTs. See, I understand what makes up the TS% stats. I also understand how it's weighted to favor a modern player over a past player, so that needs to be considered. And yes, Durant would score more points if he shot more, but his efficiency would likely go down. But he doesn't take those shots. I have no problem with you saying he's more efficient than Jordan, but I'm saying he's not the better scorer, is all, and stats need to be taken in context.

[mlaturno]

You said, "Field goal is a pretty inaccurate way to judge efficiency." That's what I was responding to. What did you think I was responding to? I understand everything you're saying. I understand your point.

Durant shoots and makes more 3-pointers than did Jordan. That's the nature of today's game. These guys have been practicing the 3-point shot since the moment they could heave the basketball twenty feet through the air. It was not so thirty years ago. And I'm with Popovich in not liking the 3-pointer, but that it's a vital part of the game today. Also Durant makes a higher percentage of this FTs. See, I understand what makes up the TS% stats. I also understand how it's weighted to favor a modern player over a past player, so that needs to be considered. And yes, Durant would score more points if he shot more, but his efficiency would likely go down. But he doesn't take those shots. I have no problem with you saying he's more efficient than Jordan, but I'm saying he's not the better scorer, is all, and stats need to be taken in context.[/QUOTE]

It is an inaccurate way to judge efficiency. It's not an inaccurate way to judge the percentage of shots made.

You can't take the three point shooting away from Durant. Analytics obviously weren't then what they are today, but I don't think we can assume Jordan would have been a knockdown 3 point shooter had he been born a few years later. It was still a critical part of the game.

His efficiency might go down some... but I don't think it's fair to assume it'd put him under too much given that he has gone through stretches where he's had to take more and it hasn't dinged him much.

Jordan and Durant basically score the same number of points and Durant does it a fair amount more efficiently.

But, like I said, Jordan's clearly the better player and likely the better offensive player overall.

[mlaturno]

The rules are much different. Fouls that weren't even called back in the late 80's would be flagrant fouls now. The NBA wanted higher scoring, especially after the Pistons-Spurs in a decade ago, so the offensive player is awarded.

I think Steven Adams is such an underrated player. Perkins helped the Celts win a title. He's got toughness, defense, etc... It's too bad that OKC have their two best players injured.

I think the Cavs have a really good chance to make it to the Finals, although I prefer the Bulls. But they've always been surrounded with injuries. I think Gasol should come off the bench. You already have a great passing center with Noah, and with Taj who can play on both ends, Pau could be used as the main offensive guy as a 6th man. He'd score just as much, get others easy baskets, and wouldn't have to defend the best, and at his age, be saved some energy.

My Pistons aren't winning a thing, so I'm rooting for the Spurs again.

Defense of today is significantly harder to score on than the defense of yesterday. Sure, handchecking is no longer legal, but they didn't have to deal with zones. Thibs' defensive schemes have especially changed the league as of late.

[Kaplan]

It is an inaccurate way to judge efficiency. It's not an inaccurate way to judge the percentage of shots made.

You can't take the three point shooting away from Durant. Analytics obviously weren't then what they are today, but I don't think we can assume Jordan would have been a knockdown 3 point shooter had he been born a few years later. It was still a critical part of the game.

His efficiency might go down some... but I don't think it's fair to assume it'd put him under too much given that he has gone through stretches where he's had to take more and it hasn't dinged him much.

Jordan and Durant basically score the same number of points and Durant does it a fair amount more efficiently.

But, like I said, Jordan's clearly the better player and likely the better offensive player overall.

First of all, Durant does not basically score as many points as Jordan did. He's close, but I wouldn't call it "basically the same." Second of all, if you're going to fall back on this TS% as your main argument, then you have to be sure that it actually means something. When I see a player like James Harden with a TS% well above Jordan, I start seeing a problem. So I did some quick research, and I realize this is a made-up formula that doesn't give us some absolute, irrefutable total. Sorry, but that's what I've found. (You can look into that or not, it doesn't matter.) It's interesting, but it's not the final say in the matter. When Durant accomplishes the scoring feats Jordan did, then we can talk. The thirty-eight 50+ point games, the 170+ 40 point games, the 33.6 ppg in 35 Finals games, the 33.2 ppg in the playoffs...all with the legacy of being a champion.

Durant's a great scorer, and an efficient one, who can score from anywhere, but you've gotten ahead of yourself. Besides, you've been arguing for efficiency, and that wasn't your original claim.

[Kaplan]

Defense of today is significantly harder to score on than the defense of yesterday. Sure, handchecking is no longer legal, but they didn't have to deal with zones. Thibs' defensive schemes have especially changed the league as of late.

No, it is not harder to score in today's league. Handchecking was a big deal to eliminate. And no team consistently plays zone, because they find it doesn't work for more than brief spans of time. Instead they throw it in as a change up, but also instituted was the defensive three-second rule. So no more big men standing in the paint to challenge penetration. This rule doesn't just limit how zone defense can be played, it affects all defense. The NBA (like the NFL) wants to see scoring, and they don't do anything that's going reduce scoring. The proof? Scoring is up in the NBA.

One common misconception people have (and I'm not implying you are under that misconception) is that man-to-man defense as it was played in the past meant the defender had to stick to his man. In reality the rule book allowed a defender to play a zoned area around his man. So if his man was standing out by the 3-point line, he could stand just outside the paint between him and the basket and was allowed to converge on an offensive player for double-team help. There was far more flexibility than people realize now, and just watch how the old Knicks used to play this sort of soft zone, though there was nothing soft about how they flattened you should you try to show up Charles Oakley or Anthony Mason or Patrick Ewing or whatever other enforcer they had out there.