View Full Version : Zotis' Upcoming Top List
It's still under construction and there are movies I want to watch before I finish my list. I've been working on this for a long time and thinking about how exactly to do it. When I start I'm planning on posting one movie a day with a review. On that day I will watch the movie before writing my review. Some of these movies I haven't watched in a long time, so after watching them I may bump them up or down, and at the end I'll post the final draft of my list based on the reflections of having recently watched them all. I'm aiming for 150 films, so this project should keep me pretty busy for about four or five months. Actually probably six months if you include the movies I want to watch before I start.
One thing I want to mention is this, my top 10 list beside my avatar is not my real top 10 list. It's just a few of my favorites. So my actual top 10 may still be something of a surprise.
So for this thread I want to discuss genres, actors, directors, decades, and individual years and see what kind of possible contenders some of you guys may be able to recommend to me. I'm going to update this first post with my To Watch list, and I will watch all of the movies on it before starting my final top list. The titles in blue have been watched.
TO WATCH
The Elephant Man (1980) by David Lynch, starring Anthony Hopkins
The Fly (1986) by David Cronenberg, starring Jeff Goldbloom and Geena Davis
Philosophy of a Knife (2008) by Andre Iskanov
Manhattan (1979) by Woody Allen, starring Woody Allen, Diane Keaton, and Meryl Streep
To the Wonder (2012) by Terrence Malick, starring Ben Affleck and Olga Kurylenko
M (1931) by Fritz Lang
Whispering Corridors IV: Voice (2005) by Choi Ik-hwan
Cannibal Holocaust (1980) by Ruggero Deodato
Inferno (1980) by Dario Argento
Zombie (1979) by Lucio Fulci
Nosferatu (1922) by F.W. Murnau
Red Beard (1965) by Akira Kurasawa, starring Toshiro Mifune
Vampyr (1932) by Carl Theodore Dreyer
Siegfried (1924) by Fritz Lang
Kriemhild's Revenge (1924) by Fritz Lang
Häxan (1922) by Benjamin Christensen
The Hunchback of Notre Dame (1923) by Wallace Worsley
The Phantom Carriage (1921) by Victor Sjöström
Stalker (1979) by Andrei Tarkovsky
jiraffejustin
08-11-14, 01:57 AM
This should be interesting. I am looking forward to it. :up:
christine
08-11-14, 02:01 AM
Looking forward to reading your reviews and seeing what makes your list :)
I'd kill for some recommendations from you justin. Of course I highly value your opinions about films, and consider you to have superb taste. :bashful:
jiraffejustin
08-11-14, 02:18 AM
Well shucks. This is a lot of pressure. I am still in that phase where I try to devour as much as I can, so I feel kind of odd being the one that gives out the recommendations instead of receiving them.
Get your hands on as much Kurosawa, Bergman, Godard (from the 60s,) and Bunuel as you can. I am still in the process of watching their films, but I've never been disappointed by them.
Maybe we can exchange PMs sometime about more specific recommendations. My watchlist is massive right now, much bigger than the list of films I've seen. I get a lot of recs from guys like Swan, Mr Minio, bluedeed, Guaporense, Used Future, and a bunch of others. They all have interesting taste and offer something different. They've all seen more movies than I have too.
I will probably watch one or two more Kurosawa films before starting my list, but I have seen most of his that really peak my interest. Of course I plan on watching the rest of his films at some point, but you know my to watch list has just gotten enormously big and hard to keep track of. Bergman is definitely a director I've got my eye on, and Godard I have been hearing about him but need to give him a closer look. I'm not familiar with Bunuel though, so I'll check him out.
I scrapped Visitor Q after 48 minutes. I'm getting more mixed feelings about Takashi Miike. There are still a few more of his movies I want to check out before doing this list though.
cricket
08-11-14, 10:40 AM
Seeing Philosophy of a Knife on your watchlist makes me really interested in what your list will include. Looking forward to it:)
I added Inferno and Cannibal Holocaust to my To Watch list. They've been on my extended to watch list for a while, but I just bought them at a video store so they're getting bumped up to tonight!
jiraffejustin
08-11-14, 10:40 PM
Cannibal Holocaust :up:
I haven't seen Inferno yet, I should probably get on that seeing as I love Suspiria.
Have you seen any films by Lucio Fulci? I'd recommend Zombie and also The Beyond.
cricket
08-11-14, 10:52 PM
Cannibal Holocaust is from 1980. Cannibal Ferox aka Make Them Die Slowly is very similar and the one I slightly prefer.
I tried to buy Zombie, they had the case out and it didn't have the little card in it that meant it was sold out... but turned out it was sold out after all. I'm going to add that to this To Watch list right now actually. I haven't seen The Beyond either, but my British friend has been trying to get me to watch it. I guess I'll have to, heh heh... I've yet to see any of Fulci's work.
cricket
08-11-14, 10:58 PM
I just saw your post in the other thread; it sounds like you've already seen Cannibal Ferox.
Heh, yeah I have actually. I wasn't sure that was the one, but yeah it is.
So I thought my computer could play blu-ray but apparently it can't. I'm going to wait and rent it from somewhere rather than watch it online because I want to see it in high quality. Cannibal Holocaust was interesting, I liked it, but it's not going to make my top list. I actually liked it a bit more than Cannibal Ferox. Although I think Cannibal Ferox had better acting.
For tonight I just picked up Nosferatu (1922).
honeykid
08-14-14, 11:27 AM
Nosferatu is good. I'd also put forward The Phantom Of The Opera (1925) and Haxan (1922) for silent horror.
Not really a horror, but The Hunchback of Notre Dame is good, too.
jiraffejustin
08-14-14, 01:24 PM
Victor Sjostrom's The Phantom Carriage is my favorite silent film, it's not really a horror film but it has some horror elements to it.
Try Paul Leni's The Cat and the Canary, Waxworks and The Man Who Laughs.
I was just looking at Haxan actually, it does look interesting. The Phantom of the Opera... I think I may just put it on my extended to watch list. It's a pretty familiar story, and one that has never really interested me a whole lot. I'm sure it will be a good classic, so I do intend to watch it at some point. The original The Hunchback of Notre Dame is also something I want to see, so I think I will add it. Thanks for reminding me of it.
The Phantom Carriage sounds interesting, I'll add it. And thanks for your recommendations too mark f, I'll check out the trailers and see how I feel about them.
Do you guys know of a great old original Sherlock Holmes movie? I've always wanted to watch the original. I know some of the old Sherlock Holmes movies are supposed to be quite exceptional.
honeykid
08-14-14, 07:12 PM
I don't know that I'd call any Sherlock Holmes film I've seen exceptional. However, if this guy is Holmes, then it's 'proper' Holmes.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Basil_Rathbone_in_Tovarich_trailer.jpg/220px-Basil_Rathbone_in_Tovarich_trailer.jpg
Though I do like Peter Cushing in the role, too.
I don't know if I want to watch Halloween after all. The bad acting and filler dialogue is kind of killing me.
honeykid
08-19-14, 01:45 AM
Umm... What now? I know it's your thread and everything but...
http://stickerish.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/GTFOWhiteWithTextSS.png
Mr Minio
08-19-14, 10:50 AM
Do you guys know of a great old original Sherlock Holmes movie? Russian TV series directed by Igor Maslennikov.
Miss Vicky
08-19-14, 11:31 AM
Given the feelings you've expressed about films made purely for entertainment, I have a feeling this is going to be one of the most boring personal lists I will have seen.
I don't have any problem with movies made purely for entertainment. I just look at film primarily as a media for art, the same as I look at music, drawing, painting, and every other form of art. Not all paintings or music are art, most of them are just for entertainment. At least I try to value quality over content in general. I dislike movies like Terminator 2 and Avatar for much more than just the fact that they are purely for entertainment. I make allowances for movies that have other redeeming qualities, but I don't like the mindset that many people have when they say, "I like it just because I like it." Most people value content above all else, and aren't adept enough to even recognize most qualitative features. When I feel like they are just being lazy and lethargic I tend to get all riled up. And yeah, then I make some stupid and mean comments that I shouldn't. I understand that I need to respect other people's taste, and there's nothing wrong with liking Terminator 2 and Avatar. Lots of the feelings I've expressed have been impulsive and arrogant. So I'm trying to chill out more. These are going to be my personal favorites, so it's not going to be a show of critically acclaimed films to impress everyone.
Miss Vicky
08-19-14, 01:33 PM
Media made for entertainment is art. These types of films, songs, paintings, etc. may not be the type of art that you admire, but that doesn't make them something else.
Most people value content above all else, and aren't adept enough to even recognize most qualitative features.
Wow.
And yeah, then I make some stupid and mean comments that I shouldn't.
Like the quote above?
So I'm trying to chill out more.
Try harder.
jiraffejustin
08-19-14, 04:42 PM
Ehh. No reason to come in here and antagonize, Miss Vicky. He does have some strong feelings about what he considers art, but this feels a little confrontational on your part.
Yeah I've got to agree with JJ. Zotis can be pretty mean sometimes (and I'm glad he's trying to change that), but he can like and dislike whatever he wants.
Captain Spaulding
08-19-14, 08:16 PM
Personally, I'm really looking forward to your list, Zotis. I have a feeling I'll gain several recommendations from it, since I expect your list to be quite unorthodox.
I also have a feeling that it'll garner very little rep, though, since you seem to have a knack for rubbing people the wrong way. ;)
rauldc14
08-19-14, 08:41 PM
I don't know if I want to watch Halloween after all. The bad acting and filler dialogue is kind of killing me.
http://media.timeout.com/blogimages/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/url-17.gif
Skepsis93
08-19-14, 08:42 PM
Ehh. No reason to come in here and antagonize, Miss Vicky. He does have some strong feelings about what he considers art, but this feels a little confrontational on your part.
Hey, she is MoFo's Resident Bitch, she has to live up to her title.
jiraffejustin
08-19-14, 08:50 PM
Poor Zotis keeps getting kicked out of his own thread :laugh:
honeykid
08-19-14, 09:14 PM
Not all paintings or music are art,
No, they are. I'd argue that anything man made or altered by mankind can be called art and, therefore, be art. Whether it's good or not is a different question.
I make allowances for movies that have other redeeming qualities, but I don't like the mindset that many people have when they say, "I like it just because I like it." Most people value content above all else, and aren't adept enough to even recognize most qualitative features.
I understand that, but aren't they saying that they like it and not the quality of it. If something (art) connects with you, you don't necessarily know why. There may be things you like about it, but those same things can be in other works and yet it/they don't work the same for you. I'd say that the real power of art (if there is any) is that/when it connects with someone in a way they can't really understand or explain. You just like it. It speaks to you. You connect. This is also why some things work later or stop working. Because it's the viewer who changes. Why didn't I like True Romance the last time I watched it? I must've seen that film 20 or 30 times and loved it, but the last time I switched it off. I've not seen it since and I'm slightly worried that I've lost something I loved. But if I have, it's because of a change in me. The film is exactly the same. It's qualities haven't changed. Nor has its content.
Anyway, on with the list! What kind of recommendations do you want?
Yeah I've got to agree with JJ. Zotis can be pretty mean sometimes (and I'm glad he's trying to change that), but he can like and dislike whatever he wants.
I'm mean sometimes? Well I know I can be opinionated, arrogant, and overly critical, but I was never trying to be mean to anyone on the boards.
No, they are. I'd argue that anything man made or altered by mankind can be called art and, therefore, be art. Whether it's good or not is a different question.
Can something be art if it isn't even artistic?
Anyway, on with the list! What kind of recommendations do you want?
Well, right now I'd really like to expand myself in some older classics. Any obscure gems would be much appreciated. Arthouse is something I don't have a lot of experience with but am growing more and more interested in lately. And feel free to shoot out any of your personal favorites. I'm not promising to watch every recommendations, but I will certainly look into them and see if they peek my interest. I don't want to bog my immediate to watch list down too much and never get around to starting the actual list. So some stuff I will have to put on my extended to watch list and get to at another time.
jiraffejustin
08-20-14, 02:15 AM
Look up Moju (a.k.a. Blind Beast) and Jigoku, they might movies you would like.
You have to watch the Human Condition trilogy though. Not watching it is not an option. :D
Chardee MacDennis
08-20-14, 03:18 AM
You may want to consider starting your list while you still have the chance. The way things have gone for you recently it's only a matter of time before you either piss off too many people or piss off the wrong person.
honeykid
08-20-14, 03:20 AM
Can something be art if it isn't even artistic?
Sure. Nothing artistic about this, is there?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/Marcel_Duchamp_Fountain_at_Tate_Modern_by_David_Shankbone.jpg/220px-Marcel_Duchamp_Fountain_at_Tate_Modern_by_David_Shankbone.jpg
It's art.
Blind Beast and Jigoku look interesting. I'm not sure if I'll get to them for this list, but possibly Blind Beast. I'll try to watch them at some point though.
Sure. Nothing artistic about this, is there?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/Marcel_Duchamp_Fountain_at_Tate_Modern_by_David_Shankbone.jpg/220px-Marcel_Duchamp_Fountain_at_Tate_Modern_by_David_Shankbone.jpg
It's art.Well if you're calling that art, than you're implying there's something artistic about it. The writing that the "artist" added to the otherwise normal urinal, and the fact that it's in a display case. Personally I just think someone was trying to make some art, but failed.
Cobpyth
08-20-14, 01:00 PM
Can something be art if it isn't even artistic?
Artistic is the adjectif form of art, so that's a pretty silly question really. It's like asking: "Can something be music if it isn't even musical?"
Filmmaking in itself is an artform. Every work of nature that is imitated, supplemented, altered or counteracted because of human intervention is by definition art.
When you're saying you only like films that are art, you're practically saying that you like every film. All paintings and music can pretty much be considered art.
Now, I get what you're trying to say, but you're not verbalizing it well.
Most people value content above all else, and aren't adept enough to even recognize most qualitative features
Ironically, your complaints about Jurassic Park the other day were practically all about the content and less about the qualitative features of that film. I guess your complaints against films like Avatar and Terminator 2 (movies that are not at all favorites of mine) are of the same kind. :p
I'm not saying those aren't genuine criticisms, but it just seemed funny to me that you were kind of describing yourself there. ;)
-------------------------------
Anyway, I'm looking forward to your list.
I recommend just starting the list and making another one in a few years to see the evolution you've made or you should at least set a deadline. There are always a whole bunch of films that you'll want to check out. Lists are time-bound anyway, so you could just as well make one now and another one in several years.
The Gunslinger45
08-20-14, 03:10 PM
Sure. Nothing artistic about this, is there?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/Marcel_Duchamp_Fountain_at_Tate_Modern_by_David_Shankbone.jpg/220px-Marcel_Duchamp_Fountain_at_Tate_Modern_by_David_Shankbone.jpg
It's art.
Wasn't that a Dadaist piece?
jiraffejustin
08-20-14, 03:51 PM
To me it seems like a satiric piece of art that literally and figuratively takes the piss out of critics who are going to hail it as a masterpiece or discuss it as something brilliant just because of who presents it. So the piece itself is technically art, but the action of presenting the piece is almost performance art in itself. In that way it's brilliant. But I could be totally wrong.
honeykid
08-20-14, 04:56 PM
Wasn't that a Dadaist piece?
It's Marcel Duchamp's 1916 work "Fountain". It was one of his readymade pieces. This, and these works, are pretty much the foundation of modern art and made the argument for what is art? The answer? Everything. It's all bollocks, though. :D Frankly, I see the art world as having the ability to stand po-faced in front of a gallery owner and convince them that whatever you've done is art and then have someone buy it. Preferably someone with a name in the art world. Give it a poncy name, that often works wonders.
The Gunslinger45
08-20-14, 05:11 PM
It's Marcel Duchamp's 1916 work "Fountain". It was one of his readymade pieces. This, and these works, are pretty much the foundation of modern art and made the argument for what is art? The answer? Everything. It's all bollocks, though. :D Frankly, I see the art world as having the ability to stand po-faced in front of a gallery owner and convince them that whatever you've done is art and then have someone buy it. Preferably someone with a name in the art world. Give it a poncy name, that often works wonders.
Yeah that was Dada. The whole anti art sort of thing. Art to destroy all other art stemming from post World War I. Crazy.
Artistic is the adjectif form of art, so that's a pretty silly question really. It's like asking: "Can something be music if it isn't even musical?"
Filmmaking in itself is an artform. Every work of nature that is imitated, supplemented, altered or counteracted because of human intervention is by definition art. It may be a silly question if it's taken out of context. If someone calls their refrigerator humming "music," I may ask them that question to illustrate a point. Not every sound is music, just like not every painting is true art. I think I see what you guys are calling art. But that's not what I'm talking about when I talk about art. When I say not all movies are art, I don't mean art in the sense that you do when you say all movies are art.
If you're opinion is that all movies are by definition art. Then it would be absurd for me to say they aren't art in that sense. If it's so absurd, then shouldn't that lead to the conclusion that I mean something else? I make a distinction between two different types of art. There is art in the sense of taking an art class and learning how to paint. And there is "true art" in these sense that someone succeeds in creating something deep and meaningful. That's why I think all movies should be deep and meaningful, because the goal of art isn't just to paint or make something for the sake of it, but to create true beauty. To pour out your passion and soul.
Ironically, your complaints about Jurassic Park the other day were practically all about the content and less about the qualitative features of that film. I guess your complaints against films like Avatar and Terminator 2 (movies that are not at all favorites of mine) are of the same kind. :p
I'm not saying those aren't genuine criticisms, but it just seemed funny to me that you were kind of describing yourself there. ;)
I do believe I was mostly criticising the lack of realism and implausible events. I also criticised the bad acting and the filler content.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to your list.
I recommend just starting the list and making another one in a few years to see the evolution you've made or you should at least set a deadline. There are always a whole bunch of films that you'll want to check out. Lists are time-bound anyway, so you could just as well make one now and another one in several years.
Yeah, I'll try not to delay it too long, but I am still compiling contenders.
Guaporense
08-28-14, 02:16 AM
No, they are. I'd argue that anything man made or altered by mankind can be called art and, therefore, be art. Whether it's good or not is a different question.
I actually think that the best definition of art is the following:
"Art is something artificial that has elements whose function is to be ends into themselves according to the mind of it's creator(s)." - Guaporense
For instance, take a standard Hollywood blockbuster film. If the whole film is made only with the objective to maximize profits and do not contain personal elements injected into the film by the creators of it without thinking about profit maximization, then it cannot be art because there is nothing artistic about it: it is a purely commercial product. However, it's hard to find films where there is absolutely nothing artistic. Take Transformers 3 by Michael Bay, it is technically art because Bay made the film not only with the purpose to maximize profits but because he likes movies with lots of explosions, bit giant monsters of metal fighting each other and beautiful girls in it. It's an auteur movie (though not a very good one :rolleyes:) just like Tarvkosky's The Mirror. The main difference is that Bay's preferences are common in the general population (most people like the same things: explosions, monsters fighting each other and beautiful girls) while Tarkovsky's are not.
I guess purely commercial films exist such as some very horrible Adam Sandler comedies and movies that are adaptations of best selling novels such as Twilight (even if the novel contains artistic elements the film does not because it does not share the same creators, the film only consumes the novel as raw material for it's profit maximizing scrip).
The hardest thing for me right now, in making my list, is positioning everything. Sometimes it just feels so arbitrary.
christine
08-29-14, 02:48 AM
I think you should stop thinking so hard and go and watch some more films ;)
Stop thinking so hard? Pfff... that just doesn't fit my personality type. :o
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