How should a MoFo Top Animated Films list work?

[Miss Vicky]

I'd be hard pressed to get an animated list together.

I was just thinking the other day that we ought to have an MoFo Top 100 Animated Films countdown. I even put together a rough draft of what would probably be my top 25.

I was wondering though if this happened, what the criteria would be? I know for most of the other lists, short films were accepted, but for animation I think that might be problematic, since one could conceivably include any short from any televised cartoon. There's also the question of how animation is defined. Obviously traditional hand drawn animation would be acceptable, as would CGI and stop motion. But what about motion capture? And what about hybrid films like Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

[Swan]

I'd be okay with doing a MoFo animated list, but I really think that animated list I shared is good.

[Swan]

I'm just worried a MoFo list will be crowded with all the Disney and Pixar animated movies, with very few more obscure ones. The list I shared has a great balance of obscure and popular.

[Miss Vicky]

I'm just worried a MoFo list will be crowded with all the Disney and Pixar animated movies, with very few more obscure ones.

You've technically been here for six years and you doubt there'll be many obscure films on a MoFo Top 100? :confused:

It'll be chock full of anime and foreign weirdness. Sexy'll be banging his gong every other post.

[Swan]

I also hope there's a large variety of animation styles represented - stop motion, hand-drawn, rotoscope, you name it. Let's have it all.

[jiraffejustin]

We should do two separate animated lists. One for features and one for shorts.

[The Rodent]

I think the criteria for animated films should be a feature length film, whether a spinoff of a TV cartoon or not, if it's feature length, it's in.


As for hybrids like Roger Rabbit... I'd say that to meet the criteria the film has to have no actual living things in it at all, so Roger rabbit wouldn't count. That would also eliminate things like Jurassic Park. Technically, the dinosaurs are animated, but the film isn't an animated film as there are live action things in it.

[The Rodent]

I mean, imagine if something like Natural Born Killers made the cut... the movie does have animated sequences...

[Miss Vicky]

I'd say that to meet the criteria the film has to have no actual living things in it at all.

Technically that would eliminate Wall E, too. Between the clips of Hello Dolly and Fred Willard's parts, it's not entirely animated either.

I'm not okay with that.

[Swan]

It's got to be all animated. No hybrids, please. If there's like, one live action scene, that might be okay... but not Roger Rabbit or anything. That's not an animated film dag nabit.

[Swan]

Technically that would eliminate Wall E, too. Between the clips of Hello Dolly and Fred Willard's parts, it's not entirely animated either.

I'm not okay with that.

I'm okay with limited use of live action, like in WALL-E, but not to the extent of something like Roger Rabbit, which is primarily live action.

I mean, no animated film list is right without WALL-E.

[jiraffejustin]

I mean, no animated film list is right without WALL-E.

The Worst Animated Films of All-Time list is.

[The Rodent]

Hello Dolly wasn't created for WALL-E. It's something that already existed that was included/added.


Although Fred Willard's role was created solely for the film.


I mean, just as another example... something like Team America. It's all puppets.
Apart from the Cat scene which was created solely for the film.




Maybe there should be a criteria that is has to be classed as an animated film under BBFC and MPAA Guidelines... or something.

[Miss Vicky]

It's got to be all animated. No hybrids, please. If there's like, one live action scene, that might be okay... but not Roger Rabbit or anything. That's not an animated film dag nabit.

I agree. However to avoid confusion I think very specific guidelines would need to be laid out in advance.

[Miss Vicky]

We should do two separate animated lists. One for features and one for shorts.

I'd be in favor of that.

[jiraffejustin]

I'd be in favor of that.

I'd probably be more interested in the shorts list than the features list. We should definitely do this.

[Cobpyth]

I think a "MoFo's top 100 animated feature films" list could work. It will probably be a little biased towards Pixar, Disney and Studio Ghibli, but there's still plenty of room for other kinds of films and if everyone does a small effort and watches some new stuff, there could even be a few nice surprises in it.

@Swan: I love that list, but it features films like King Kong and Who Framed Roger Rabbit, which are predominantly "live action" films in my opinion (and also in your opinion, if I understand correctly). We could use that list as a basis to discover films for the MoFo list, though. I think it would be a great event!

Setting a few clear rules shouldn't be that difficult. We can still rely on an executive officer (who would logically also be the general organizer of the list) to decide about specific cases (with the help of a strong public voice of course).

[jiraffejustin]

The main reason I'd like to have the two separate lists: I have a really hard time comparing 90 minute Pixar features to 7 minute Looney Tunes shorts. The other reason: I would hate my list if I had to split it between shorts and features. I'd be leaving out a huge amount of things I love.

[Miss Vicky]

I think the 100 animated shorts idea could be really interesting. Besides TV shorts, there are lots of great contemporary shorts like the works of Pixar (Knick Knack, For the Birds, Lifted, Partly Cloudy, One Man Band, Geri's Game, etc) and also a ton of great older stuff like Tale of Tales, the various works of Jiri Trnka, and How the Grinch Stole Christmas.

[donniedarko]

If we do animated film list, ESPECIALLY two separate ones, it might end up making more sense if like the comic book list we do Top 50s. Maybe it'll attract enough lists, and a variety of films to do a top 100, but I don't think they will to be honest.

[Swan]

I think a "MoFo's top 100 animated feature films" list could work. It will probably be a little biased towards Pixar, Disney and Studio Ghibli,

Yep, that's what I'm afraid of.

@Swan: I love that list, but it features films like King Kong and Who Framed Roger Rabbit, which are predominantly "live action" films in my opinion (and also in your opinion, if I understand correctly). We could use that list as a basis to discover films for the MoFo list, though. I think it would be a great event!

Oh, you're right. Forget about that then. I just hope our list is good.

But yes, let's use that list as a great big resource, PLEASE.

[Swan]

The main reason I'd like to have the two separate lists: I have a really hard time comparing 90 minute Pixar features to 7 minute Looney Tunes shorts. The other reason: I would hate my list if I had to split it between shorts and features. I'd be leaving out a huge amount of things I love.

Yeah, please, let's keep the full-length and shorts separated. Again, I want more obscure films to make the list - having shorts on there too will mean less room for that.

[jiraffejustin]

If we do animated film list, ESPECIALLY two separate ones, it might end up making more sense if like the comic book list we do Top 50s. Maybe it'll attract enough lists, and a variety of films to do a top 100, but I don't think they will to be honest.

Maybe I am just overzealous, but I think a top 100 would be easily doable.

[seanc]

Seems like 100 would be doable for animation. The moderator could decide when they tabulate though.

[The Gunslinger45]

Maybe I am just overzealous, but I think a top 100 would be easily doable.

Given that animation has plenty of great titles and is not as limited as say the top 100 Comic Book Movies, I think a Top 100 Animated Movies List is actually a serious possibility. But at the same time I can see it being a Top 50 as well.

[Miss Vicky]

Seems like 100 would be doable for animation. The moderator could decide when they tabulate though.

I think this would be the way to go. Accept ballots for a top 50, but still keep open the possibility of expanding the list to a top 100 if there are enough movies with enough votes to justify it.

[jiraffejustin]

I'd still participate either way, but I almost always enjoy the first 50 more than the top 50. I don't think it would be any different with animation.

[Miss Vicky]

I just mean that if, for some reason (which I don't forsee), there aren't at least 100 films with multiple votes a top 50 would be better.

[Yoda]

I think it's a good rule of thumb that no one person should be able to put a film on a list with a single vote. So each list curator would have to see how many submissions they get, and make sure the cutoff is above that point.

Additional criteria/principles are admittedly more debatable, though. But I think that one is pretty fundamental to the idea of a "community" list--it's not reflective of the community if one person can ensure something makes it. Kinda defeats the whole idea.

[Swan]

I think there are more than enough animated movies for a top 100.

Top 50 is again too limiting. I want this list to be a good resource for people to really explore animation, because it's a genre with so much variety.

[Yoda]

Oh yeah, I'd be shocked if we don't get enough entries for a good top 50 for animated films. Animated short films, however, would probably need to be 25. Which isn't unprecedented--the AFI Musicals list is 25.

[Swan]

I don't want to do it if it's only top 50. That will be so depressing and limited. This better be a good list dammit!

[Miss Vicky]

I don't think people are getting what I'm saying.

I absolutely believe that there are more than enough animated features to do a top 100. But the question is whether or not there will be at least a 100 animated movies that get a sufficient number of votes to justify a Top 100. So I think ballots should be accepted with the possibility of it being only a top 50 if that's what the numbers suggest it ought to be.

[Swan]

Well, if there aren't, we can just use the list I linked to instead and have King Kong and Roger Rabbit be on it. I'd rather have that.

[jiraffejustin]

Oh yeah, I'd be shocked if we don't get enough entries for a good top 50 for animated films. Animated short films, however, would probably need to be 25. Which isn't unprecedented--the AFI Musicals list is 25.

I disagree. We have tons of Looney Tunes, Disney, Tom & Jerry, and various other Tex Avery shorts. Wallace & Gromit. A bagillion fantastic animated Russian shorts. And the great thing about them are you can watch 10 of these in a day easily if you wanted to really help the list out. Of course, if people weren't interested in watching shorts for this list, then I suppose you would have a point.

[Miss Vicky]

Well, if there aren't, we can just use the list I linked to instead and have King Kong and Roger Rabbit be on it. I'd rather have that.

I wouldn't.

I disagree. We have tons of Looney Tunes, Disney, Tom & Jerry, and various other Tex Avery shorts. Wallace & Gromit. A bagillion fantastic animated Russian shorts.

Not to mention there are tons of things made specifically for places like youtube, such as the excellent Simon's Cat series of shorts. I mean, it's certainly possible that we don't get at least 50 films and we can certainly adjust the number as needed, but I think 50 is more than doable.

Another option would be to do a MoFo Top 100 Short Films and leave it open to both animation and live action.

[Yoda]

Yeah, the available pool of entries is only half the question. The other is how many people would participate.

For better or worse, I think we've seen that a lot of people won't participate if they have to wrack their brains and/or watch a lot of new stuff just to fill out a list. Which makes sense, because submitting a list where you don't even particularly like your later entries also seems to defeat the purpose.

[jiraffejustin]

Yeah, the available pool of entries is only half the question. The other is how many people would participate.

For better or worse, I think we've seen that a lot of people won't participate if they have to wrack their brains and/or watch a lot of new stuff just to fill out a list. Which makes sense, because submitting a list where you don't even particularly like your later entries also seems to defeat the purpose.

I tend to get overzealous with these kinds of things. Watching obscure Soviet Union animated shorts about Winnie the Pooh (Vinni-Pukh) is incredibly exciting to me, I forget that not everybody is as weird as I am.

[Swan]

That animated list I linked has Jason and the Argonauts on it. Even though it's a live-action movie with stop-motion in it, the lists section desperately needs some Harryhausen.

[jiraffejustin]

Let's just do a bunch of list. A list for everything. I love making lists. I'd probably participate for anything you can think of, except maybe porn. I've never been able to finish one. :D

[gbgoodies]

Yeah, the available pool of entries is only half the question. The other is how many people would participate.

For better or worse, I think we've seen that a lot of people won't participate if they have to wrack their brains and/or watch a lot of new stuff just to fill out a list. Which makes sense, because submitting a list where you don't even particularly like your later entries also seems to defeat the purpose.


If you guys decide to do a list of animated films, I'm in. :)

I'm also in for a list of animated shorts. :)

[Miss Vicky]

That animated list I linked has Jason and the Argonauts on it.

All the more reason why I don't want to use it.

[gbgoodies]

Would "animated" also include "anime", or is that considered a separate category?

[Swan]

All the more reason why I don't want to use it.

I am so disappointed in you right now, Miss Vicky. :tsk:

[Miss Vicky]

Would "animated" also include "anime", or is that considered a separate category?

Yes. Anything animated from any country would qualify.

I am so disappointed in you right now, Miss Vicky. :tsk:

Jason and the Argonauts is not an animated movie. I have nothing against Harryhausen, but it's not animated. I would much rather see a list - be it 50 or 100 - that was compiled by forum members than one that includes Jason and the Argonauts and King Kong.

[Swan]

I just want it to be a good and varied list instead of including every Disney, Pixar and Miyazaki film and nothing else. I'm repeating myself I know, but dammit. I want the list to be a great resource for anyone wanting to explore animation - and that list I linked is exactly that.

[Cobpyth]

I just want it to be a good and varied list instead of including every Disney, Pixar and Miyazaki film and nothing else. I'm repeating myself I know, but dammit. I want the list to be a great resource for anyone wanting to explore animation - and that list I linked is exactly that.

You may be underrestimating us MoFos a little bit. I don't think it will be THAT bad. I'm sure there will still be a whole bunch of interesting entries too. ;)

[Swan]

I hope I am. I really do.

[seanc]

Look at it this way Swan. If we do a list it will get me to watch a whole bunch of stop animation I have been meaning to get to.

[gbgoodies]

I just want it to be a good and varied list instead of including every Disney, Pixar and Miyazaki film and nothing else. I'm repeating myself I know, but dammit. I want the list to be a great resource for anyone wanting to explore animation - and that list I linked is exactly that.

Most of the animated movies that I know and love are mainstream, but I love animated movies, so I'm willing to watch a whole bunch of other animated movies if someone starts a thread and suggests them.

[Miss Vicky]

I just want it to be a good and varied list instead of including every Disney, Pixar and Miyazaki film and nothing else.

Have a little faith in your fellow MoFos.

I'm repeating myself I know, but dammit. I want the list to be a great resource for anyone wanting to explore animation - and that list I linked is exactly that.

Except that includes a bunch of live action movies that have a little animation.

[Swan]

It might be a flawed list, but it's still a good one.

[Swan]

I will also be so very upset if the MoFo list ends up being only a top 50.

[mark f]

What list????? :cage:

[Nostromo87]

I'd say that to meet the criteria the film has to have no actual living things in it at all

damm! no Space Jam! :D

probably a good rule tho

[Yoda]

That would exclude films like Wall-E, though.

I think limiting it to films that have more animation than not would work pretty well.

[mark f]

... and Fantasia. But what do we do about Allegro non troppo? :)

[Swan]

That would exclude films like Wall-E, though.

I think limiting it to films that have more animation than not would work pretty well.

I have to wonder - if Avatar is 60% animation and 40% live action, would that count?

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

I have to wonder - if Avatar is 60% animation and 40% live action, would that count?
If the majority of the film is animated then I think it should be included.

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

Another example is Who Framed Roger Rabbit?, which is 50/50 - would that be included?

[Yoda]

I think a distinction should probably be made between animation, and CGI that's trying to replicate photorealism. Because some films have enough CGI in them that they'd probably technically qualify, even though nobody thinks of them as animated.

[Yoda]

Another example is Who Framed Roger Rabbit?, which is 50/50 - would that be included?
I think there's actually a lot less animation than actual photography there. Especially if you go by how much is actually on the screen at any one time.

[Swan]

I think a distinction should probably be made between animation, and CGI that's trying to replicate photorealism. Because some films have enough CGI in them that they'd probably technically qualify, even though nobody thinks of them as animated.

That was my same answer. I originally wrote a similar thing in my post, saying since the animation is trying to be integrated into reality, it shouldn't count. But I didn't want to answer my own question so I deleted that part. Hey, at least I didn't delete the whole post.

[The Gunslinger45]

I think a distinction should probably be made between animation, and CGI that's trying to replicate photorealism. Because some films have enough CGI in them that they'd probably technically qualify, even though nobody thinks of them as animated.

Yeah I agree. Otherwise movies like The Avengers, Pacific Rim and the like which are CGI heavy would count. Got to keep it separate from the likes of Frozen, Shrek, and Toy Story.

[Swan]

You should have started with this post (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1093339#post1093339). :D

[Yoda]

Then it would look like nobody said anything in response to your post for two months. :laugh:

[mark f]

Overall, it's hard to top that list. Did I already say that? :)

[jiraffejustin]

Does that list have A Town Called Panic on it? I am too lazy to check.

[Swan]

Does that list have A Town Called Panic on it? I am too lazy to check.

That is one I need to watch still. But, I'm not seeing it on the list I linked.

[Skepsis93]

I'm okay with either, even though I'm more excited for an animation list (no shorts!). I'm ready to further explore both animation and 60s.

Yes shorts!

[jiraffejustin]

Yes shorts!

shorts need their own list

[Swan]

Yes shorts!

No. Less room for obscure movies.

[Skepsis93]

But there are so many great/obscure animated shorts. And shorts have been eligible for all the other lists so far. Plus I feel like very few of us would be able to put together an entire list of 25 animated shorts that we love.

[jiraffejustin]

But there are so many great/obscure animated shorts. And shorts have been eligible for all the other lists so far. Plus I feel like very few of us would be able to put together an entire list of 25 animated shorts that we love.

All the more reason to give them their own list. Maybe it would inspire people to explore them.

[Swan]

But there are so many great/obscure animated shorts. And shorts have been eligible for all the other lists so far. Plus I feel like very few of us would be able to put together an entire list of 25 animated shorts that we love.

I would rather do a separate list for animated shorts. Maybe we can do like, a top 50 animated shorts countdown at the same time?

[The Rodent]

Oh... will Roger Rabbit count?

[Swan]

Oh... will Roger Rabbit count?

Probably not.

[The Rodent]

Will the Star Wars prequels count? They were all CGI after all.

[Swan]

Will the Star Wars prequels count? They were all CGI after all.

I doubt it Rodent. :p

[The Rodent]

What about 99% of films made since 2010? Most of those are CGI laden cartoons.

[gbgoodies]

Will the Star Wars prequels count? They were all CGI after all.


I think CGI is different than animation, so they shouldn't count.

[The Rodent]

If CGI isn't counted then what about stuff like WALL-E, The Incredibles, Antz, A Bugs Life, Toy Story etc etc...

[Swan]

If CGI isn't counted then what about stuff like WALL-E, The Incredibles, Antz, A Bugs Life, Toy Story etc etc...

Those are primarily animated films. Star Wars isn't.

[gbgoodies]

If CGI isn't counted then what about stuff like WALL-E, The Incredibles, Antz, A Bugs Life, Toy Story etc etc...


Maybe just let IMDB decide what's eligible. If it's listed as "animation" on IMDB, it should be eligible.

[jiraffejustin]

The genres on imdb can be all kinds of weird. I'd avoid using IMDb for anything other than years.

[Skepsis93]

The genres on imdb can be all kinds of weird. I'd avoid using IMDb for anything other than years.

Genres are weird in general. I'd trust IMDb as much as anywhere/anyone else.

[The Rodent]

If I'm finding out what kind of movie it is... comedy, thriller, horror, animated... I use Wiki.

[Swan]

I think it's mostly common sense. The focus of movies like Roger Rabbit and Star Wars is on the live action characters, while animated movies focus on the animated characters and are mostly animated. It's really not that hard to figure out. :p

[Yoda]

I think the best standard is one that requires a majority of the actual screen (IE: screen real estate multiplied by length) be animated. And that CGI counts, but only when it's not attempting to be photorealistic.

I find this standard does a really, really good job of including all the things we intuitively know are animation (like Pixar films), but excluding the things that we don't tend to think of that way (like the Star Wars prequels).

[Yoda]

For any really borderline cases that AREN'T covered by the standard, we would just leave it up to the person who runs the list. They would make judgment calls.

Oh, by the way, in case anyone in this thread hasn't seen the other, there's a vote about whether or not this should be the next list going on. Have at it:

http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?t=36953

[The Rodent]

Personally, I'd allow Roger Rabbit... if it's said that RR doesn't count, I'd not allow WALL-E either.


But saying that, it opens the window for films like Avatar as well.


Whoever takes on the list, they need to lay out some pretty solid rules.

[Skepsis93]

I think it's mostly common sense. The focus of movies like Roger Rabbit and Star Wars is on the live action characters, while animated movies focus on the animated characters and are mostly animated. It's really not that hard to figure out. :p

For sure. The only grey area might be something like Jan Svankmajer's films. Stop-motion, but with live subjects. I would definitely lean towards animation in that case but I'm not sure about the rest of you, especially if you consider Wall-E live action... :dizzy: :facepalm:

[Swan]

For sure. The only grey area might be something like Jan Svankmajer's films. Stop-motion, but with live subjects. I would definitely lean towards animation in that case but I'm not sure about the rest of you.

Hmmm... yeah, that is kind of a grey area. But, after I thought about it for a second, I'd consider it animation without a doubt, because that's what it is. It's just using humans as props.

[The Rodent]

Stop Motion should count.


A Nightmare Before Christmas and Coraline, that sort of thing.


Again though, James And The Giant Peach? It has a bunch of real life scenes, just like WALL-E, Avatar and Roger Rabbit... so would James And The Giant Peach count?




This is where animated list gets very complicated.

[Yoda]

I'm not sure what you mean by "real life scenes." Almost all animation depicts real things, but it's not attempting to depict them photorealistically. It always takes significant aesthetic liberties. The humans in James and the Giant Peach and WALL-E don't look anything like real people, and aren't trying to. I think that makes for a pretty good criteria for exclusion.

[Swan]

Not really. James and the Giant Peach is primarily an animated film. The focus is on the animated characters.

[The Rodent]

I mean they have live action involved in them.


JATGP has actual actors on screen when James comes out of the Peach... WALL-E is photorealistic in terms of the robots, WALL-E himself especially, and also has live action segments...




There really needs to be someone in charge of the list who will lay down a solid foundation on what would count and what wouldn't.
Has anyone stepped forward yet?

[Swan]

It might look photorealistic, but the intention was never for WALL-E to be photorealistic. It just happened to be really good animation.

[Yoda]

Yeah, but the "majority animation" rule would take care of those examples. I think we all agree that one live action shot wouldn't stop a film from being animated, just as one animated frame wouldn't make a film animated.

The combination of "majority animation" with "CGI doesn't count as animation if attempting photorealism" really does catch the overwhelming majority of tough cases.

[The Rodent]

I'm nominating Yods to do the list :D

[Yoda]

I'm not stupid enough to subject myself to that. :laugh:

[The Rodent]

Reading over my posts it seems I'm being really pedantic... but really I'm not meaning to sound like that.


I'm genuinely trying to discuss and find a ground for what the rules will be.

[Yoda]

No worries, I get what you're on about, and it's good to explore it. Somebody's gotta ask those questions.

[The Rodent]

Just don't ask me to do it. There'd be one of two ways I'd go with it.


1. I'd allow Roger Rabbit, Avatar, Star Wars Episode II and III, Riddick, RoboCop remake... etc... etc...


2. Completely disallow films that have any live action at all.

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

Reading over my posts it seems I'm being really pedantic... but really I'm not meaning to sound like that.

I'm genuinely trying to discuss and find a ground for what the rules will be.

I didn't want to say anything, but your pedantry was becoming unbearable.:D

[weeman]

Whether or not an a film can be considered as "animated" is purely common sense. There is a grey area, but obviously WALL-E is an animated film and if it's discluded purely for "that" scene, then that's pretty silly.

Who Framed Roger Rabbit? is not an "animated" film. It has elements of animation, but is not "animated". Likewise, Avatar is not animated and shouldn't be on any list of good films ever, purely because it's a copy of Dances With Wolves.

Now, The Brave Little Toaster. There's an animated film.

[Miss Vicky]

Now, The Brave Little Toaster. There's an animated film.

Oh it's definitely animated. It's just not a good.

[weeman]

Just another point:

I can think of at least 40 animated films not from Disney, Pixar, or Studio Ghibli that are probably nailed on to appear on this potential list, considering the taste of particular Mofos.

[rauldc14]

If Brave Little Toaster didn't make the top 100 I would ban myself.

[Godoggo]

We should do two separate animated lists. One for features and one for shorts.

I do too. Or if not that make the animated list feature length only.

I really hope people would just use common sense. I've never had a problem figuring out if I was watching an animated movie or not. (James and the Giant Peach most definitely is. ;) )

[Miss Vicky]

It seems wrong to make the animated list feature length only, unless we're going to have a separate shorts list. All of the other movie lists, afaik, were open to shorts and I don't see why animation should be the exception to that. I included a great animated short on my 70s list and intend to include two others on my 60s list.

I think a short films list - even one that combines live action and animation in one list - would be great. But if it isn't definitely going to happen then the animations list should be open to all films that classify as animation according to whatever is decided upon by the host or by majority opinion.

[Swan]

I think there's a lot of great animated shorts and that's one of the reasons I'd rather do a separate animated shorts list at the same time we do the animated features list.

My main reason, though, is having shorts means less features on the list.

[Godoggo]

That's exactly where my head is at too. With both included there is such a big pool to draw from. I don't see where it would that hard to make a list of shorts at the same time, then run both lists at the same time. One person could run one and another person the other each posting two a day.

[Harry Lime]

There certainly is room for a handful or two of shorts in the top 100. I'm for one list only. If we separate them the pool will become too diluted.

And my opinion is 51% of the movie must be animated to be included.

[Godoggo]

I still say the pool is way big enough to be diluted. Between Pixar, Studio Ghibli, Disney and Dreamworks a lot of stuff that could make the list will probably be pushed out as it is.

[Guaporense]

Shorts are not very popular around here. And Disney, Ghibli, Dreamworks and Pixar do not have enough movies to make a top 100. Ghibli has 22, Disney has 53, Dreamworks have like 20 and Pixar has about 14 in total.

A top 100 would probably consists of like 15 Ghibli movies, 30 Disney movies, like 30 Pixar and Dreamworks movies in total (every Pixar movie will show up, probably), Akira, GitS, 3-4 Satoshi Kon movies and several shorts, mostly those stop motion shorts from that Czech guy.

[Guaporense]

And my opinion is 51% of the movie must be animated to be included.

More. I think 100% is required (all movies in my top 100 are 100% animated). Otherwise, movies like these are classified as animated:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/71/Skycaptainposter.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5c/300poster.jpg

SInce most of the screen for much of the time is CGI. If the characters are animated and not actors then I would regard it as animated, otherwise it is considered "special effects". In the 1950's and 1960's Disney did the "special effects" for movies like Forbidden Planet and The 10 Commandments, mixing hand drawn animation with live action footage.

[Swan]

Shorts are not very popular around here. And Disney, Ghibli, Dreamworks and Pixar do not have enough movies to make a top 100. Ghibli has 22, Disney has 53, Dreamworks have like 20 and Pixar has about 14 in total.

A top 100 would probably consists of like 15 Ghibli movies, 30 Disney movies, like 30 Pixar and Dreamworks movies in total (every Pixar movie will show up, probably), Akira, GitS, 3-4 Satoshi Kon movies and several shorts, mostly those stop motion shorts from that Czech guy.

I'm afraid of that, but the thing is there are other, more obscure, animated films that could potentially make the list.

When it comes time to prepare for the countdown, I will be shoving that Time Out list I in everyone's face.

[jiraffejustin]

Watch A Town Called Panic even though it's not on that list

[Swan]

Watch A Town Called Panic even though it's not on that list

Let's work together. I'll shove my list in everyone's face, you shove that in everyone's face.

[jiraffejustin]

I don't want to work together shoving things in people's faces.

[Swan]

Yes you do.

[Miss Vicky]

More. I think 100% is required (all movies in my top 100 are 100% animated).

We already had this discussion: 100% Animated is a bullsh!t criteria. It doesn't work because it excludes some films that have every right to be included. And by that token, not all of the movies in your top 100 are actually 100% animated. Genius.

http://media.giphy.com/media/j0ADYtzavC2xW/giphy.gif

[Godoggo]

Shorts are not very popular around here. And Disney, Ghibli, Dreamworks and Pixar do not have enough movies to make a top 100. Ghibli has 22, Disney has 53, Dreamworks have like 20 and Pixar has about 14 in total.

A top 100 would probably consists of like 15 Ghibli movies, 30 Disney movies, like 30 Pixar and Dreamworks movies in total (every Pixar movie will show up, probably), Akira, GitS, 3-4 Satoshi Kon movies and several shorts, mostly those stop motion shorts from that Czech guy.

Then there is Rango, A Nightmare Before Christmas, James and the Giant Peach, Chatlotte's Web, Persepolis, Wizards, Waltz with Bashir, The Plague Dogs, Mary and Max, Coraline, Fantastic Planet, Wrinkles, Queer Duck and The Triplets of Belleville. I probably could think of a lot more given time.

Maybe not Queer Duck, but I can see the others making the list.

[jiraffejustin]

I think the cgi discussion should be put to bed. WALL-E is animated, 300 is not. Things like Roger Rabbit are what should be discussed.

[Miss Vicky]

Then there is Rango, A Nightmare Before Christmas, James and the Giant Peach, Chatlotte's Web, Persepolis, Wizards, Waltz with Bashir, The Plague Dogs, Mary and Max, Coraline, Fantastic Planet, Wrinkles, Queer Duck and The Triplets of Belleville. I probably could think of a lot more given time.

Maybe not Queer Duck, but I can see the others making the list.

I definitely see those making it, plus (off the top of my head) Watership Down, The Land Before Time, Despicable Me, Ice Age, Happy Feet and Surf's Up.

There's more to animation than just Disney, Pixar, Dreamworks and Ghibli.

[gbgoodies]

I think the cgi discussion should be put to bed. WALL-E is animated, 300 is not. Things like Roger Rabbit are what should be discussed.

:up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:

It's too bad that I can't +rep this post more than once. It shouldn't need to be said over and over again. CGI is not animation.

[Godoggo]

I definitely see those making it, plus (off the top of my head) Watership Down, The Land Before Time, Despicable Me, Ice Age, Happy Feet and Surf's Up.

There's more to animation than just Disney, Pixar, Dreamworks and Ghibli.

I can't believe I forgot about Despicable Me and Surf's Up. I love both of those.

I also forgot Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs which I was completely pleasantly surprised by. I'm not sure if I would even have room on my list for it but there are at least 15 to 20 contenders for my list not from those four studios.

If direct to DVD movies were allowed I would have even more.

[Swan]

I think $9.99 could make it if enough people watch it. It will be on my list for sure.

[Miss Vicky]

CGI is not animation.

Except that it is animation and most of the popular animation of today is CGI (Computer Generated Imagery), including everything Pixar has ever made.

More appropriately CGI when used to create special effects in an otherwise live action movie or when made to create images meant to appear to be live action do not qualify as animation for the purposes of this list.

And Roger Rabbit is not an animated movie, IMO.

[Swan]

More appropriately CGI when used to create special effects in an otherwise live action movie or when made to create images meant to appear to be live action do not qualify as animation for the purposes of this list.

I think that's what she meant.

[Miss Vicky]

I think that's what she meant.

I agree that's probably what she meant, but it's not what she said.

There's a reason all this crap needs to be hashed out and defined, so that people will know what can and cannot be included on their ballots.

[gbgoodies]

More appropriately CGI when used to create special effects in an otherwise live action movie or when made to create images meant to appear to be live action do not qualify as animation for the purposes of this list.

And Roger Rabbit is not an animated movie, IMO.


Yes, that's what I meant. I think there's a clear difference between CGI as special effects in a live action movie vs. what should be considered actual animation for the purposes of this list.

And I'm on the fence about Roger Rabbit. I would prefer that it be considered animation because the main character is animated, as are the villains, but I can see both sides of the argument on this one, and I'll be okay with the decision either way.

[jiraffejustin]

I'm not familiar with the Jan Svankmajer features, how much live-action stuff is in them?

[Swan]

I'm not familiar with the Jan Svankmajer features, how much live-action stuff is in them?

I'm pretty sure they're all live-action with stop-motion in them.

[christine]

Does that list have A Town Called Panic on it? I am too lazy to check.

Oh I love those films!
We even had milk adverts made by those guys

Hmm now where do we stand on Svankmajer? The man is a stop motion genius

[weeman]

"Animated" vs "Non-Animated" is purely common sense. If anyone thinks it isn't then why are they here?

I'd probably be willing to accept Who Framed Roger Rabbit? but it should purely be a matter of common sense as to what "animated" constitutes.

Whoever runs the animated list should have the power to veto any extremely questionable selections. Just message the person back telling them they'll have to re-do their list because X and Y do not fit the criteria.

Easy.

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

What about the Wallace and Gromit films, would they be classed as animated?

[Swan]

What about the Wallace and Gromit films, would they be classed as animated?

Yep, they are stop-motion.

[Guaporense]

I think all the top films of any countdown we do will be predictable.

Other countdowns the top 20 are predictable the rest is not, in animation is more, like 40-50 movies certainly will show up in the top 50-60. Because there is a small set of very well known animated films and the rest is very obscure. Few people here have watched much in the medium.

[Guaporense]

So if you are doing seriously a top animated list what's the rule for OVA's?

[cricket]

I wonder if the animation list should just be a top 50, with people voting for their top 10 or 15. If you have a potential situation where a movie makes the countdown due to one singular high vote, I think it hurts the integrity of the list. While the comic book countdown was fun, there's a reason that only the top 50 is currently showing.

[Miss Vicky]

Nothing's been decided as of yet, but I suggested that we accept ballots with the intention of doing a Top 50 and then extending it to 100 only if enough films get sufficient votes to be included.

Obviously we wouldn't allow any film to make the list if it received only one vote, regardless of the placement of that vote. I don't think that we should reduce the length of the ballot, however, as that will only reduce the chances of it becoming a top 100 and eliminate many of the more obscure choices that make the list interesting.

[Swan]

That's what sucks about this, a lot of great animated movies may only get one or a couple votes. :(

A top 50 might make more sense, but it does bum me out. The top 50 is what's going to be all Pixar, Disney, Ghibli and Dreamworks. I don't want that!

I don't want this to be just a list of all the popular animated movies. I don't get the point then. I want it to be a list for people wanting to explore animation more deeply, see more obscure works and different styles.

[Daniel M]

Not trying to be a d!ck but a top 50 would be silly in my opinion, absolutely pointless as we know exactly what films would make it, it just furthers my initial concerns over the list. One other thing I am worry about is that if we try and get as many ballots as possible, a lot of members who aren't even that active and haven't watched that much cinema will be including lesser Disney films and childhodd stuff to fill their lists out and say ten people including them will block out better films making it with less points, it's why the comic book list had The Dark Knight easily win, everyone has seen it.

[Daniel M]

As long as Team America: World Police is eligible and makes the top 20, I'll be happy.

[Daniel M]

Do what IMDB classes under the genre "Animation", that's the fairest way. No other rules.

[Yoda]

I think a Top 50 would still have some surprises. The real thing is that, if there aren't a ton of ballots, a Top 50--whatever silliness that may entail--may still be the least silly option, given the alternative.

But I think people are into these lists enough that we wouldn't have to worry about it. I also think people would be more willing than usual to accept recommendations and check out new films during the voting period. It's a less intimidating subject and/or pool than entire decade lists.

[seanc]

Why do you guys not have the same concerns about a decade list. There are a lot of MoFos with varying taste who watch a ton of movies. That does not change no matter the list. Everyone has watched the Dark Knight and it won because it is a damn good movie. The same can be said of The Godfather that will place way up on the 70's list. Why is obscure always better? Are cinephiles really in that great of need to be hipsters?

[Daniel M]

I wouldn't say that obscure is necessarily better, but I think I would prefer a film to be different than good but something I have already seen and could find on a list elsewhere, that's what makes MoFo lists unique, and I am just worried that a lot of people may not fully explore animation and fill their lists with known films which would bump down films that would otherwise make it. It's just a concern, I want the list to work, especially after talking to Swan who has kind of convinced me more that this could work. I was also looking at my IMDB ratings and there's a few interesting films that I'd like to include on my list already.

[Yoda]

There's sort of a leap of faith there: if the idea is to help people find new things, jumping into an animation list as a motivator is the best way to do that. I doubt I'm the only one who gets up off their butt and gets around to watching recommended films a lot more often because of list deadlines.

[Swan]

Why do you guys not have the same concerns about a decade list. There are a lot of MoFos with varying taste who watch a ton of movies. That does not change no matter the list. Everyone has watched the Dark Knight and it won because it is a damn good movie. The same can be said of The Godfather that will place way up on the 70's list. Why is obscure always better? Are cinephiles really in that great of need to be hipsters?

I don't think obscure is "better", in fact a lot of movies on my list right now are popular movies. I already said it though, I want the list to be something someone who has only seen popular animated movies can turn to to delve deeper into animation cinema, watching films they never would have seen, discovering new styles. A lot of obscure animated films are visually unique and fascinating.

[jiraffejustin]

Obscure is not necessarily better, but a better list would have a decent mix of popular and obscure titles on it. It would be a shame if our animated list looked like all of the other animated lists out there. If you only love 25 animated films that come from Pixar and Disney, I guess that's fine, but it would be doing the overall list a disservice to not at least seek out some of the lesser known films out there.

Films like A Town Called Panic for instance :D

[Mr Minio]

Why is obscure always better? Not always, but very often. :p Tarkovsky wouldn't be considered obscure no more, but compared to, say, Hitchcock, he still kinda is, so obscure depends on what you compare something to. Like, even the mainstream cinema of Thailand is pretty obscure for a regular guy from Europe or America, but for a Thai it's not. Actually, arthouse cinema from exotic countries is more known to foreigners than mainstream stuff from there.

Obscure is also better, because it's unknown. :P I'm pretty sure a lot of people would like to discover new films and not see same old already known titles over and over again.

Besides, every respectable hipster knows that obscure stuff gets two stars more just for the sheer fact nobody else's seen it.

[mark f]

Besides, every respectable hipster knows that obscure stuff gets two stars more just for the sheer fact nobody else's seen it.
Or two stars less. ;)

[seanc]

I don't think obscure is "better", in fact a lot of movies on my list right now are popular movies. I already said it though, I want the list to be something someone who has only seen popular animated movies can turn to to delve deeper into animation cinema, watching films they never would have seen, discovering new styles. A lot of obscure animated films are visually unique and fascinating.


I agree and think that is a very valid line of thinking. I just don't think you guys are putting enough faith in your fellow MoFos who seem to come up with off the beaten path films all the time. I got a watch list ready to go no matter which list wins this round. However if I don't like Persepolis better than Aladdin than it is not going to get ranked ahead of Aladdin. I guess I am just wondering why this would be an issue with an animated list and you guys don't seem to think it is with the decade lists.

[Swan]

It's silly to think obscure movies or popular movies are better in any way. They're just movies.

[Swan]

I agree and think that is a very valid line of thinking. I just don't think you guys are putting enough faith in your fellow MoFos who seem to come up with off the beaten path films all the time. I got a watch list ready to go no matter which list wins this round. However if I don't like Persepolis better than Aladdin than it is not going to get ranked ahead of Aladdin. I guess I am just wondering why this would be an issue with an animated list and you guys don't seem to think it is with the decade lists.

It's just a worry I have. Maybe it means nothing and the list will be great.

I guess I could worry about it with the decade lists, but I'm very excited about the animation list and am personally invested in it. Remember I just started participating in the lists with the 70's list.

[Mr Minio]

Or two stars less. ;) That wouldn't be hipster, but idiotic.

[mark f]

You're too much of a hipster to get it.

[gbgoodies]

I'm a fan of most Disney and Pixar movies, as well as other mainstream animation such as the Ice Age, Madagascar, Despicable Me, etc. movies, but that doesn't mean that I have anything against some of the more obscure animations that you guys seem to be worried might not make the list. It just means that I haven't seen them yet, so they're not on my list.

If you guys are so worried about that stuff not making the list, then why doesn't someone start a thread that recommends some of those more obscure animations. (I've already got a short list of animations that I've never heard of, but that I plan to watch before submitting a list, just from reading this thread.) And if you can find links to them on sites like YouTube, that would make it even easier for people to find that stuff. (For example, someone mentioned Brave Little Toaster earlier in this thread, and that's on YouTube.)

Cutting the list down to 50 titles won't help the more obscure stuff. Most of that stuff probably won't push the more mainstream stuff off of a 50 title list. It will more likely just get most of the obscure stuff cut off the list entirely. That would just be a disservice to the more obscure stuff.

[Yoda]

To be clear, cutting the list to 50 isn't an idea to "help" the obscure stuff--it's to make sure the list is reflective of some kind of community consensus. If we get a small to moderate number of ballots, and put 100 films on the list, a number of those films will have been voted on by a single person, which defeats the entire idea behind having a community-created list.

If we decided not to care about this we could easily backwards-engineer criteria to get a lot of varied, interesting films on the list. But it wouldn't really be the same thing any more.

[gbgoodies]

Here's another suggestion that could help the more obscure stuff.

Whether or not the obscure stuff makes the list would be dependent upon more people seeing that stuff, so how about doing some community commentaries for some of the obscure animations? That way more people would get a chance to see them and discuss them before submitting their lists.

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

Here's another suggestion that could help the more obscure stuff.

Whether or not the obscure stuff makes the list would be dependent upon more people seeing that stuff, so how about doing some community commentaries for some of the obscure animations? That way more people would get a chance to see them and discuss them before submitting their lists.

Good idea. I think I would struggle to put 25 films together for my list, I know nothing about animated films. I've only seen the mainstream ones like Toy Story, Shrek etc..

[Daniel M]

At least everyone can finally watch Rango.

[Yoda]

Yeah, Rango's pretty darn good. It'll probably be on my list somewhere.

[Daniel M]

Nice one, I am also hoping for some love for Fantastic Mr. Fox and Chicken Run

[Cobpyth]

Rango will also probably make my list. The same goes for Fantastic Mr. Fox.

I'll watch Chicken Run for the list. I've seen parts of it in my childhood, but have never seen it in full, I think.

Should we already open a thread for recommendations?

[Swan]

You know Fantastic Mr. Fox will make my list. My favorite stop-motion movie? There's only one other movie that could beat that. ;)

[Miss Vicky]

Should we already open a thread for recommendations?

I was going to open a thread for animation recs this morning but ran out of time before I had to leave for work. If nobody makes one in the meantime, I'll do it tonight.

[weeman]

We will absolutely not have a problem getting 100 titles and #100 will still have a respectable number of votes. There's an absolute ton of animated films out there, people will find new ones to love if they choose to dive in and watch, which everyone always does for lists.

So if you are doing seriously a top animated list what's the rule for OVA's?

If I was running the list, for something like this it would be accepted if it was either theatrically released or feature length (both is obviously fine too).

[Miss Vicky]

Well if we don't get anybody else to volunteer as animation host, I'll do it (but I'll need help with graphics). If that happens, OVA's will be fine as far as I'm concerned assuming they were commercially released and fit the definition of animated. Their chances of making the countdown are pretty much nil anyway.

[Sexy Celebrity]

This is how it should work:

It shouldn't.

[The Rodent]

I'll offer help for the graphics MV if you take it on... :)

[weeman]

I'd like to throw my hat into the ring for this one, seeing as I don't think I'd be much use when it comes to the 60's (or much else).

I think there'd be quite a few wanting to take this one on though.

Also to rig the results so The Brave Little Toaster gets number 1... ...ahem.

[rauldc14]

I won't be watching anything new for this as I've seen everything that I have wanted to. A few Miyazakis to be sure but those were on my watch list before this animated frenzy has hit this forum like a flu bug.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Raul has been sending me the best comments about this animation list:

It's really not a countdown to be excited about. Hooray Toy Story 1,2, and 3 are all in the top 5! Up, Wall E and Ratatouille did great! Miss Vicky had Mary and Max at number 1! Guaps list had 23 anime films! Yoda had Up at one! Who gives a hoot!

I'm sorry, Raul, but I loved that and wanted to share.

[Swan]

You can say the same sort of thing about the decades lists though, too.

[Harry Lime]

Did SC hack raul's account? Or brain?

[Miss Vicky]

I'd like to throw my hat into the ring for this one, seeing as I don't think I'd be much use when it comes to the 60's (or much else).

You're welcome to it. :)

I won't be watching anything new for this as I've seen everything that I have wanted to. A few Miyazakis to be sure but those were on my watch list before this animated frenzy has hit this forum like a flu bug.

Raul has been sending me the best comments about this animation list.

If neither of you are at all excited for this list, you're both welcome to not participate in it. Wouldn't break my heart.

[Harry Lime]

I thought Miss Vicky was running the animation countdown?

Also, stop-motion is animation.

[Miss Vicky]

I thought Miss Vicky was running the animation countdown?

Also, stop-motion is animation.

I offered to run it only if there were no other volunteers. Weeman's welcome to take the reins on this one if he really wants it. I'm not eager to take on the extra work. Just eager to see the end result. :)

[Harry Lime]

Well, you get to see the end result before everyone else if you run the countdown!

[Swan]

I think either Miss Vicky and weeman would be great as hosts.

[Swan]

Have we decided that there will be shorts on the list? I still don't want any. Separate list please.

[jiraffejustin]

I'd prefer a separate list for shorts too. I already have more than 25 shorts that I really, really, really like plus a huge watchlist. Tex Avery is the sh*t when it comes to shorts. That list of Russian animation I posted earlier is great for shorts. Don Hertzfeldt has several shorts worth checking out. Jan Svankmajer has a bunch of shorts that I desperately need to see. Then the obvious: Looney Tunes, Tom & Jerry, Wallace & Gromit, and Pixar. Not to mention all the odds and ends that I've left off.

[jiraffejustin]

You know Fantastic Mr. Fox will make my list. My favorite stop-motion movie? There's only one other movie that could beat that. ;)

Your top two will be rather...Fantastic?

[Swan]

Holy crap. I didn't even notice that. :laugh:

[Sexy Celebrity]

I think either Miss Vicky and weeman would be great as hosts.

If Weeman's the host, he better make a Sexy Hitler cartoon.

[weeman]

Basically, I want to run this countdown because it's a list I think I could run well. Not like the 60's, where almost every other member of the forum would be better placed than me. Plus, it gives me an excuse to watch an absolute ton of animated films that I've been putting off watching. Obviously, it's not up to me.

Do it for blanky people

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uToj54VvDQ

[rauldc14]

It would be stupid if shorts were a part of this list, I agree Swan.

[Miss Vicky]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uToj54VvDQ

That stupid character is the main reason why I couldn't finish that movie, despite attempting it a few times.

[rauldc14]

Nonsense. Great film. Don't listen to her.

[Miss Vicky]

Have we decided that there will be shorts on the list? I still don't want any. Separate list please.

I don't think a final decision has been made, but I encourage people to recommend and watch shorts because they'll be eligible for something whether they have their own list or not.

[Swan]

Just to clarify, rotoscope is definitely eligible, yes? I'd be pretty upset personally if it wasn't. It's such a great animation style.

[mark f]

Of course.

[The Rodent]

I think shorts should be counted.


I'm having trouble getting 25 full length animations together... including shorts would make it easier for people like myself to get to the allotted 25.


Also, having shorts as a separate list... I'd have 5, that's it.

[Swan]

You could always watch some more, Rodent. :p

[jiraffejustin]

Yeah watch some more. Like A Town Called Panic.

[Cobpyth]

You can watch more or you can only send in a top 20 or a top 15 if the rules are the same as the '70s countdown..

[jiraffejustin]

Also, having shorts as a separate list... I'd have 5, that's it.

Which five would it be?

[The Rodent]

Not sure which five I'd have but The Small One (1978) would make the cut.

[Sexy Celebrity]

It should work by skipping it.

[Miss Vicky]

If you have so little interest in the list, why are so spending so much time in the threads dedicated to it?

[Sexy Celebrity]

Just to frustrate you. It's working.

[Miss Vicky]

Actually I'm so used to your attention whore behavior that it really doesn't phase me anymore. It's only very mildly irritating. Get a new shtick.

[Yoda]

It should work by skipping it.
You already made that joke (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1154644#post1154644).

[Sexy Celebrity]

Actually I'm so used to your attention whore behavior that it really doesn't phase me anymore. It's only very mildly irritating. Get a new shtick.

Oh please this place wouldn't survive without me.

[Sexy Celebrity]

You already made that joke (http://www.movieforums.com/community/showthread.php?anchor=1&p=1154644#post1154644).

What's one more time? At least you got more rep from it!

[Sexy Celebrity]

Raul was right. People really are on the edge lately.

[Voigan]

Is the recobbled cut of The Thief and the Cobbler eligible? The theatrical version is a pile of rubbish but the recobbled cut would probably make my list if it's allowed.

[rauldc14]

Direct to video better be eligible!

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130212140024/scratchpad/images/c/cd/Aladdin_2.jpg

[Miss Vicky]

Is the recobbled cut of The Thief and the Cobbler eligible? The theatrical version is a pile of rubbish but the recobbled cut would probably make my list if it's allowed.

I don't think anything's been decided yet as far as eligibility.

[Yoda]

Yeah, nothing official. There are some good proposals in here that cover most of the ambiguities of certain films, but some judgment will be required on the part of whoever runs it.

There are a few ways to do this: people can choose someone to run it and then let them decide the general criteria, or the other way around. The former might be simpler, especially if anyone willing to run it just says upfront what criteria they would use.

[Daniel M]

In terms of cuts. It's up to you what you're voting for, that's always been the way it has been on the previous list. When people were voting for Fanny and Alexander in the 80s list they were voting for the 3 hours movie, even though most were in their heads voting for the 5 hours TV versions (myself included), and with Blade Runner almost everyone was probably voting for the director/final cut, not the actual theatrical cut which it would be listed as in terms of release date. Basically we've been going by it's release date and type on IMDB, we haven't had much problems in terms of direct to video and stuff, wants it's underway, you can ask the host and they'll probably let you vote for whatever within reason. You're deciding what 'version' your voting for and whether you want to represent it in some form.

[jiraffejustin]

Let's do this the good, ol'-fashioned American way. Two people run against each other, we all pick sides and yell at each other about the other side being wrong.

[weeman]

Let's do this the good, ol'-fashioned American way. Two people run against each other, we all pick sides and yell at each other about the other side being wrong.

Even though both sides end up being wrong? :p

[Cobpyth]

Let's do this the good, ol'-fashioned American way. Two people run against each other, we all pick sides and yell at each other about the other side being wrong.

YES! Let's do that!

Am I the only one here who secretly gets a kick out of political games? :bashful:

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

If the world was on the brink of nuclear war there wouldn't be as much discussion and arguing as there has been over this dam list.:rolleyes:

[Cobpyth]

If the world was on the brink of nuclear war there wouldn't be as much discussion and arguing as there has been over this dam list.:rolleyes:

Don't be too sure about that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T2uBeiNXAo

[Jack1]

It has to include shorts, surely, seeing as quite a lot of animated stuff seems to be shorter than feature length.

Incidentally, how are we defining feature length?

[Miss Vicky]

We haven't defined anything yet. That'll probably be left up to the host.

[Cobpyth]

I thought you were going to be the host of this list, Miss Vicky?

Just take the job and start a thread. You're one of the most active members here and you're quite into animated films, so I don't think anyone will have a problem with that. ;)

[Miss Vicky]

Well weeman expressed interest and I've already told him he can take it if he wants it, so I don't want to go back on that. But he better hurry up and get things going on this or I will take over. I'm getting really impatient.

[rauldc14]

I agree that a thread should be opened just to get the basics layed out very soon.

[Swan]

I think whoever takes the host position should listen to majority consensus or at least take other peoples opinions into consideration instead of making the decision him or herself without listening to anyone else.

This might not be a problem but I'm mentioning it anyway!

[Cobpyth]

Why don't we just make an anonymous poll that stays open for two days where people can vote who they want as the host (as it seems there's more than one candidate for this one), so we can get this thing started?

I'm willing to open that poll (I myself am not a candidate to host this list by the way) after members have turned in their candicacy. Let democracy decide this thing, so we can finally get things done! :D

Does that seem like a good idea to you people?

[Skepsis93]

I'd feel like crap if I lost that poll. Give weeman a little time to respond.

[Miss Vicky]

I'm okay with that if weeman doesn't respond soon. I don't really want the work but if that's what it takes to get this thing in motion, I'll do it.

Maybe give him until Tuesday? (Is Labor Day even a thing outside of the U.S.?)

[Swan]

I didn't even know you wanted to do it, Skepsis!

I think we should just wait for weeman to answer, though I have no problem with a poll if that's what everyone wants to do.

[Miss Vicky]

I think Skepsis just meant he'd feel like crap if he was weeman.

[Skepsis93]

I didn't even know you wanted to do it, Skepsis!

I think we should just wait for weeman to answer, though I have no problem with a poll if that's what everyone wants to do.

I don't, I'm just saying it doesn't really take any special qualities to run one of these lists, besides time and commitment (and maybe a little patience) so a poll would just be a popularity contest, basically. And I'd feel bad for the loser. :p

[Swan]

Ah. Yeah, I can see that. I think weeman will probably get back to us soon anyway.

[Harry Lime]

I want to hear (read) weeman say he is committed to the countdown, that he won't bail, that he'll basically devote his life to it. Anything less and we'll need another countdown runner or whatever the fudge we call it.

[Cobpyth]

I'd feel like crap if I lost that poll. Give weeman a little time to respond.

But we've done plenty of contests where members are up against eachother and I don't think there were ever any bad consequences in any of those threads. We're all adults here. It's just an internet forum. Why would anyone feel crap about something like this?

We just want someone who is capable of hosting a list and the only way to really represent the MoFos' feelings is by taking a poll, in my opinion.

I just went back a little bit and saw that Weeman also explicitedly said this:

Obviously, it's not up to me.

So I don't think he'll really mind if there's a poll about it?

I don't know, it just seems like the fairest way to solve this problem and to move on to the actual list. If Weeman was already promised to host the list, though (I didn't think he was), we should indeed just wait a little bit then, I guess.

[Skepsis93]

There is no problem. If weeman says he wants to do it, he can. If he says he doesn't want to or doesn't respond soon-ish, then MV takes the reins. Simple. No need to start pitting people against each other.

[Cobpyth]

So Weeman basically already got the job?

OK, didn't know that. I thought Miss Vicky was just as much a candidate as he was. :)

[Skepsis93]

From what I gather, though I haven't been following these threads all that closely.

[Miss Vicky]

AFAIK, weeman's the only person who has actually expressed interest in hosting it. People have assumed that I was hosting it because I've been so vocal in trying to get this thing moving and because my love of the medium and high level of activity around here makes me a logical choice but I never really volunteered for the job. :laugh:

[Cobpyth]

Well, Weeman was online 1 hour ago (according to his profile information), so if he returns, he'll probably respond soon then.

[Yoda]

I'd feel like crap if I lost that poll. Give weeman a little time to respond.
Gonna echo this. Even anonymously, that feels like a recipe for hurt feelings, and I'm pretty sure we can hash out a consensus on this anyway.

[Miss Vicky]

Well I think we should give weeman a couple of days to confirm that he's going to host or to pass on it. If I haven't heard anything or he hasn't posted in the forums about it by this time tomorrow, I'll ask Yoda to email him, then we can give him another day or so after that to give us his answer before we move on.

[Cobpyth]

I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly, Weeman is an IRL friend of Daniel. So maybe he can text him or something?

[Miss Vicky]

In the meantime, we should probably figure out once and for all what the general consensus is on the eligibility of hybrids and shorts.

I say no to hybrids and yes to shorts.

What does everybody else think?

[Miss Vicky]

I could be wrong, but if I remember correctly, Weeman is an IRL friend of Daniel. So maybe he can text him or something?

Yeah, they are IRL friends. I hate to drag Daniel into this though. You're welcome to ask him if you want.

[Cobpyth]

Yeah, they are IRL friends. I hate to drag Daniel into this though. You're welcome to ask him if you want.

I will. I don't think Daniel will mind. ;)

[jiraffejustin]

I say no to shorts. I don't care about hybrids, but if I had to vote I'd say no.

[Cobpyth]

Let's take a poll about those two things then? :p

[Miss Vicky]

Set it up if you want, Cob.

[Cobpyth]

Should I make one poll for both elements (with 4 choices) or two polls for each element (with each 2 choices)?