Formula 1 thread

[windsoc]

There seem to a few Formula 1 fans based on the shout box today so I thought I would start a thread about it.

Twenty four hours on from the Monaco GP and it seems things are not any better but are in fact much worse than they were between Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg. Looking back on the coverage of Quali on the highlights it is very clear to me anyway what Nico was doing. He had the correct line to go in there, he knew the breaking point and he move himself out of the way enough not to cause an accident but knew that Yellow Flags would be called upon. I have no idea what is going on between Rosberg and Hamilton but something needs to be done.

Poor old Seb, once again something just isn't right for him. Eddie Jordon basically wrote Seb off on Sunday and whilst the table would suggest there is no turning back it's only race six and there there is still a lot to play for. I think Eddie is just being his usual self and trying to stir things up.

[honeykid]

Twenty four hours on from the Monaco GP and it seems things are not any better but are in fact much worse than they were between Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg. Looking back on the coverage of Quali on the highlights it is very clear to me anyway what Nico was doing
I don't think it's clear that's what he did, but it is clear that if he were of a mind to he could've. I think it's inconclusive, mainly because that's an incredibly bumpy part of the track. However, once the mistake's been made, it might be that he decided not to do all he could. If that's the case, that's gamemanship which is, as the word suggests, part of the game.

He had the correct line to go in there, he knew the breaking point and he move himself out of the way enough not to cause an accident but knew that Yellow Flags would be called upon. I have no idea what is going on between Rosberg and Hamilton but something needs to be done.
I don't think anything has to be done, unless you're at Mercedes of course. So long as they're not taking each other off, both of those cars are so superior to anything else on the track that mechanical failure and the conditions are the only factors that will stop one of them winning. Maybe not for the whole season (though if things don't change soon that could be the case) but far enough in so that it doesn't matter for the Championship.

Poor old Seb, once again something just isn't right for him. Eddie Jordon basically wrote Seb off on Sunday and whilst the table would suggest there is no turning back it's only race six and there there is still a lot to play for. I think Eddie is just being his usual self and trying to stir things up.
It is the sort of thing that Eddie would say, but, if anything, he's a bit late, IMO. The changes required by Red Bull simply don't appear to be able to be done with the current regulations. No in season testing, no tyre choice and, worse, tyres which mean a driver can't constantly push to the best of his ability mean I can't see Seb getting close. Frankly, I think everyone's best chance of anything other than Mercedes domination this season is that Mercedes implode and even that might not be enough.

Congratulations to Jules Bianchi and Marussia. That pass at Rascasse was superb. :up:

[Tacitus]

I've been an F1 fan since the late 70s, ever since I got a Scalextric set for Christmas. The set was the Wolf F1 team edition so it was fairly natural that my favourite driver would automatically be James Hunt. ;)

The deal between Scalextric and Wolf was obviously signed long before the season started, however, because the car was an utter shed.

I'll post more later. ;)

[windsoc]

It is inconclusive and to be honest the only person who knows why he did what he did (and it may be a valid reason) is Nico. I can understand Hamiltons upset at what happened and I am unsure who is to blame when it came down to the race but the way that Nico put himself in place and touched the breaks just enough to get out of the way is a little odd to me.

As for the race well I have never and will never like Monaco, it's dull, boring and unless something catastrophic happens (which I don't wish to see) it's basically a forgone conclusion as to who is going to win.

The really sad thing is I have very little time for Lewis, someone said to me a few weeks ago he looked like he was throwing his toys out of the pram because things were not going his way, sorry, when has he not been like that? I have been told as a Brit I need to get behind Lewis and Button, pfft, don't think so, I would rather back Chilton. I don't dislike Leiws and he is clearly one of the best if not the best but the problem for me is his attitude. Who can forget the answer he gave to the BBC about the FIA a few years ago? Even if he meant it as a joke and I am sure he did you just don't say that, it's not funny and it's not needed.

I think Red Bull could still do well, Daniel Ricciardo is doing well and I like him, I think he could be a big player in the Formula 1 but if anyone needs to worry I think it has to be Ferrari.

[Tacitus]

Love Hamilton as a driver, but just as a driver. I think it was Lauda who said earlier in the season that you could show both Merc drivers a new track and Lewis would immediately be 0.2 seconds faster than Nico. As the weekend went on Nico would begin to pull the time back.

I didn't see anything wrong with his 'because I'm black' comment. It was a (10 years out of date) joke that backfired. Spectacularly ill-judged, granted, but I didn't see any malice there.

Maybe I'm not too hard on Hamilton because my favourite driver was Nigel Mansell. I think it was Patrick Head who said of Nige (and I'm paraphrasing) "He's a god in the car but a pain in the arse outside it".

I didn't care - Nige was a moustachioed, Brummie god who just happened to turn moaning and persecution complexes into art forms. ;)

[windsoc]

I didn't see anything wrong with his 'because I'm black' comment. It was a (10 years out of date) joke that backfired. Spectacularly ill-judged, granted, but I didn't see any malice there.

You are right in the sense it was not meant with any malice and I am not convinced it was, it was an off the cuff remark that was stupid, some people I know defended him saying it because of cameras being shoved in his face but sorry I don't buy that for one second. The thing is I just don't get why he thought it was appropriate or funny to say it. Yes the sport of Formula 1 is primarily White people (I am not being racist, it just happens to be true if you look around) but even so you don't say it especially when he knew it was being broadcast but hey, he learnt and would never do such a silly thing as sharing information about engine on Twit... oh no he did that didn't it?!

This is not meant to be about bashing Lewis though it's really not, he is just on my mind at the moment and god love him, he really doesn't help himself from time to time.

[honeykid]

Never been a fan of Lewis, but he's a superb driver and, better, a brilliant racer. I dont' care if a driver is British or not, I just like the drivers I like, Same with tennis or any other sport. My favourite driver since Schumacher retired (the first time) has been Alonso, though I couldn't hand on heart say that when he was at McLaren, with Raikkonen next, so the Ferrari team this year is a dream. Probably my favourite Ferrari team since Gerhard Berger and Jean Alesi, even though I'm pretty sure that Kimi won't do anything as he's not had it in him since he became world champion, IMO. You get drivers like that sometimes. It's not that they were lucky or that they're not trying, it's just they can't perform at that level anymore. That hunger/desire has been sated. See Dwight Yorke for evidence it happens in other sports. :D

[Tacitus]

Mika Hakkinen as well. He won back to back titles then just fell out of love with the sport.

Maybe it's a Finnish trait? ;)

Asides from the top guys, I'm beginning to become a fan of Bottas. He's still raw but Massa is a good benchmark and I've got the feeling that once he's got a bit more nous he'll have Fillipe in his pocket. Probably not to the same extent as Alonso had (because Alonso's the best driver of his generation and it'll be a crying shame if he doesn't add to his two titles) but enough to cement his place in the Hulkenburg bracket.

[honeykid]

I like the look of Bottas, too. I think he'll be at a top team in a couple of years, unless Williams continue to improve, then he might stay there for the immediate future. Of course, you can't really tell with the F1 merry-go-round, as it's all about being around at the right time. I quite like Sutil, too. He reminds me a little of Heinz-Harald Frentzen for some reason. Maybe it's just that unluckiness in a 'lesser' car. He always seems to get taken out or have something go wrong just as he's about to have a really good finish.

[Tacitus]

Canada?

Historically Hamilton has owned this track - Long straights and tight corners mean he's in his late-braking element.

After the injustice (real or imagined) he felt in Monte Carlo the season could go two ways. Lewis will either up his game to stamp his authority on the team for the next few races or he'll melt under the pressure.

He can be a hard guy to like, can Hamilton, but the grid would be a duller place without him on it. ;)

[windsoc]

I always enjoy Canada, it seems to be one of those circuits that just seems to take all the expectations and rules and throws them out of the window. I am not sure where you are in the world Tac but I remember a few years ago (2011 I believe) when the race started here in the UK at 5 or 6pm GMT but got stopped & started a number of times due to bad weather. By the time 10pm rolled around it was still going on and I was due in work the next day at 7am but after all that, there was no way I was not seeing it through!

---

Having looked it was 2011:

Canadian GP - 2011 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1cXCWzBQh8)

[Tacitus]

I'm in the land of Eddie Jordan. Ireland, not a yacht on the Med, sadly. ;)

2011 was a fantastic race - Jense coming through from last and pushing Vettel into a mistake. Classic stuff.

[Tacitus]

Windsoc, I noticed your Shout about Senna.

Still remember his accident vividly - Was sitting in front of the TV with my lunch on a tray and when the crash happened remember saying that it didn't look good. He was the brightest star in the sky, the fastest and most complete driver I've ever seen.

That said, I was never much of a Senna 'fan' when he was racing. As said previously, I was a Mansell guy and Senna (with Prost and Piquet) stopped Nige winning the Championships he deserved. I had a deep respect for him and would grudgingly admit that Senna was the best of them but always would round it off with "But on his day, Mansell would..."

My respect for him grew once Nigel had won his title and buggered off to dominate in America. The McLaren wasn't the machine it once was but Ayrton was driving it astonishingly and when he moved to Williams most of us figured that it would be Championship number four.

Sadly, we all know how that year's Williams turned out - By the end of that season it had developed into a mighty machine but started off as extremely tricky to drive.

Senna wasn't killed because that car was a bit of a beast- He'd have been pushing that corner as hard no matter what machine he was in, and there were a lot worse cars on the grid. It was an awful, tragic racing accident.

EDIT - I posted this video on the Giant Bomb F1 section a week or so ago, after Monte Carlo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwuE73pU0dY

Best Monaco GP I can remember. ;)

[windsoc]

Not the most exciting qualifying session I have ever seen but none the less a good one. I am really pleased for Nico and he just seemed to be consistent through the entire session. Hamilton did do well and it was tight so good luck to him. I am still not sure about the relationship but hey, it is what it is.

Seb genuinely blew me away, I was really hoping Ricciardo was going to stay ahead of his team mate but the last lap put a stop to that and based on what we have seen this year you cannot count Daniel out.

I am pleased how well Williams did, I wish they had been able to stay up further in the tables but at the end of the day this is not Monaco and there is still a lot to play for. Massa put in a decent time as did Bottas.

Otherwise I don't think much more to say before tomorrow except to say, am I the only one who thought the smile was very forced and false on Lewis?

[honeykid]

I love the Canadian GP. It's probably in my top 5 races of the season, so I'm pleased to see there's another 10 years coming.

[Tacitus]

Yep, love Canada too. As Jense was saying on the BBC qualifying show, it's the lack of run-offs and the straights which do it.

I wonder if my post about Hamilton wilting under the pressure is starting to come true? He mucked up his middle sector (it happens to all guys at some time or another :p) but was faster than Rosberg in the other two so I don't know. We'll find out today.

[windsoc]

What and end to a race filled with incidents. How Seb avoided being hit by Massa is beyond me. I am insure as to who exactly is to blame for that; It seems to be a little unclear as to if it was Massa over cooking it or if Perez simply make a mistake.

It does suck that Nico could not get the win. He worked hard all race and there is in my mind an element that Ricciardo would not have taken the win were it not for trouble with the car of Nico.

It was nice to see Seb congratulating Dan, you very rarely saw that a few years ago.

I do feel sorry for Massa, that win for Williams would have been a massive shot to them as would have a result for Force India by Sergio.

[Tacitus]

I think my exact words were "Massa, you tw@t!"

That race was Felipe's career in a nutshell - Blisteringly fast but not top drawer when it comes to wheel-to-wheel racing.

Ricciardo has been immense this season and the win was richly deserved, despite Merc's troubles. Talking of Mercedes, did a bloke in their IT department spill coffee over their KERS PC? I've never seen both cars from one team develop the same problem at exactly the same time.

The yelps of Hamilton and Rosberg over team radio were a little comical when it happened, but it's bad form to make fun of misfortune. Bad luck for Nico and especially Lewis but I'm glad that we're not going to have a whitewash of a season. ;)

[honeykid]

I really enjoyed that race. Not the most incident-filled race, nor a great amount of overtaking, but it was always interesting and that's not something that's happened too often this season so far. I mean, they were celebrating someone NOT in a Mercedes LEADING a race. Even Michael gave the others a sniff. :D

Both of the big crashes almost had me out of my seat. The first just looked as if someone had throw a car at the wall. I had no idea what'd happened and, as it was at the back of the shot, by the time I realised it was over. The Massa crash was just odd. A bit like Schumacher/Coulthard at Spa, except it seemed to happen even quicker. Strange. Do they know what happened? I didn't watch anything after Ricciardo crossed the line. Last I heard was Coulthard talking about the engine clipping.

I wondered whether someone had tripped over a cable when the Mercedes went offline, too. :D It does show just how vital that extra power is now. If you don't have it, you may as well pull up and have an early day.

[Tacitus]

Apparently all Merc's woes were caused by overheating, which caused the power recovery to fail and then the brakes to go dodgy. This makes me wonder what changes they'd made to the set-up (because they weren't expecting warm weather) from, say, a really warm race like Bahrain.

It looked like Bianchi's shunt was caused by Chilton losing it in the corner and hitting him although his later interview proved that Max might actually be a racing driver after all and not a nice young lad with a rich dad - He blamed Bianchi. :D

The Massa/Perez accident looked to me like Massa misjudging the (totally normal) line Perez was taking for the corner allied to him taking far too much speed into the bend when trying to pass. Racing accident and not worthy of investigation but Felipe's fault.

There was also more mayhem at the hairpin on the final lap with Alonso trying and failing to get past Hulkenberg which resulted on Jenson passing both of them and taking 4th. ;)

[honeykid]

Thanks for that, Tacitus. Overheating makes perfect sense. As someone who suffered nothing but heat problems with their Xbox 360, I can see just how easily that could happen. Odd that it did, though, with all that air-con. :D

I actually prefer it like this. I've been slightly disappointed at how well the cars have adapted to the new systems. I've always preferred the car breaking circuts, but they just don't really exist anymore because the cars are almost bulletproof. Spa, Monza, Gilles Villeneuve, along with Silverstone and Monaco have always been my favourite circuits because they often provide the best races.

BTW, how did Rosberg get away with cutting the chicane without getting penalised? Unbelievable. :eek: It's one of my pet peeves with current F1. I dont' want people crashing or getting injured or dying, but if you would've crashed out had you not taken evasive action and keep/take a position, you should get a drive through or something. Hamilton might not have been right behind him, but he'd have taken the position had Rosberg had to make the turn or tried to at that speed. Therefore, he should've benefited, and not just one of those sneaky 'let them pass and then immediately take the position back' ways. It was his quickest lap. at the time, how could they say he didn't benefit?

Shame about Alonso. Ferrari have a long road ahead of them. Pun intended. ;)

[Tacitus]

Ordinarily I couldn't see Alonso staying with Ferrari much longer (his post race interview seemed very resigned) if they can't produce a competitive car but where could he go? Mercedes have a stable line-up (unless Rosberg and Hamilton descend to Prost and Senna levels of mistrust), as have Red Bull.

I could see him going back to McLaren in 2016 providing the Honda engine is up to snuff although the 'Vettel to Ferrari' rumour is intriguing - Would they swap?

Fernando must be getting a bit antsy by now - It's been a long time since his last title and his talent deserves many more than two championships. Then again, in professional sport, deserve ain't got nuttin to do with it. ;)

[honeykid]

I could see him going back to McLaren in 2016 providing the Honda engine is up to snuff although the 'Vettel to Ferrari' rumour is intriguing - Would they swap?
Depending on how they both see their teams progressing, I can actually see that happening. You know that Vettel would love to emulate his hero and move to Ferrari and make them great again. Likewise, as you said, I can see Alonso just wanting out and Seb sounds so baffled by what's happening to him. However, if, by the end of the season, he can see the new guy making something of Ferrari, he might roll the dice and stay where he is. Alonso's like a gambler who's sat in front of a machine puting loads in and getting nothing back. Can he walk away? What if someone else walks in and hits it first time?

[Tacitus]

Don't know if it's so much Vettel wanting to go to Ferrari in particular but I suspect he'll eventually move from Red Bull just to be seen as a champion in his own right. It's more than a little unfair on the guy when you look at the cars Schumacher (and Prost, and Senna etc) won his titles in.

In fact, you've got no chance of winning the title unless you're in one of the two fastest teams. Vettel gets a lot of sniping directed at him, I'd say even more than Michael did, and the fact that he's seen to be be struggling against a young team mate this year is only adding to the arguments of those who think that he's not a worthy 4 time champ.

Could it be that Daniel is merely a lot more experienced at having to troubleshoot a poor car and drive around its problems? They talk about Hamilton having bad luck this year but Seb's had more than his fair share too.

[Tacitus]

Just seen that it's Perez who has been blamed for the big crash - Braking early and changing his line apparently.

Williams aren't happy, obviously, and are quite rightly mentioning Perez's radio comms where he was complaining about lack of brakes and his engineer telling him to keep going if he could. A 5 place grid penalty seems pretty lenient. ;)

[honeykid]

I saw that Perez had been blamed. Seems as if the stewards didn't have the best of weekends?

I agree that you have to be in the best two cars, let's face it, usually the best car to win. I think Vettel is getting more than Schumacher because, a) Schumacher had already won two titles in another team (which wasn't the best car, either), b) I think people felt that he'd 'earned' those titles seeing as he went to a underperforming giant of the sport and, essentially, walked away from possible/probable titles to rebuild another team and, C) I don't remember him winning as many from the front. Not that he didn't do it and, for at least one season, he dominated just like Vettel did with poles and wins, but whatever the conditions, the opposition and tyres, he did it.

Seb also had Schumachers luck, though that seems to've deserted him atm.

[windsoc]

To be honest I thought originally it was Perez that was at fault but looking back on what happened my opinion has changed. The FIA etc have said braking is the cause etc but looking at the footage again frame by frame I can see no breaking from Perez when going into the line (which he had and had every right to keep), it looks to me more like Massa just slammed into the back of him, to me it looked like Massa was not paying attention and went right into Perrez but this is simply from what I can see.

I have been saying for year after year Seb will end up at Ferrari because it seemed like the most logical place for him but at the same time when you look at someone like Alonso who cannot seem to get is foot down will Seb have any better luck? And can Seb and Alonso realisticly race along side each other?

It was nice to see Button win some points. That's about all I have to say. Next.

Seb and Schui seem to be very alike in the sense they have no problem angering people. I don't dislike either as people, from interviews I have seen of both men on Top Gear they seem genuine, honest and open. I cannot say that for many other people. But as for in the car? Well maybe they do suffer from "I am better. Move", Seb did it before and he has done it again, I don't wish to focus on the past but look at the Turkish GP in 2013, Horner calls it a racing incident and maybe it was but I still would point the finger of blame at Seb.

Ricciardo is doing very well and I am very pleased for him this season. It may not have made a massive difference but had he not been removed in the Aussie GP and not lost his points would it be a much closer fight between the new blood? I certainly wanted that at the time.

I am about to watch the BBC Forum to see what was said but one thing I am interested in but cannot find is a discussion that was had between Leigh & Eddie on the BBC coverage. There seemed to be some discussion about teams having the option to speak up more than others but I cannot remember what was being discussed, can anyone shed any light?

[Tacitus]

I think it was basically Jordan with his 'poor little me and my little team, but don't ask about when Bernie bailed me out with a massive interest free loan' act that he trots out from time to time. He was talking about smaller teams not having any say at meetings once the big boys had decided on something.

Re Perez - I know I blamed Massa immediately (and my thoughts on his career still stand - he's clumsy and too bullish in close racing) but something Rob Smedley said made sense. In that corner, Massa and Vettel were the same distance apart all the way up until the accident (indicating both of them having a similar, consistent pace) but Perez was getting closer and closer to Massa compared to previous laps indicating a sharp slowing down.

He lifted early to save his brakes at the same moment Felipe went for a Banzai pass. Unfortunately Perez seems to have moved under braking, and that's something I've seen him do before especially last year at McLaren.

[windsoc]

Another interesting race today and it was good to be back in Austria.

Williams

After such a strong qualifying it was a shame that Massa did not take the main win but he still showed a lot of will in the race itself and I was pleased to see Botas getting third place, he worked hard and earned to be on that podium.

Mercedes

Both Hamilton and Rosberg put in some great performances today. Hamilton did well to come back from where he did and whilst it was pre-mature I really didn't give him a lot of credit today. They are showing a very good lead in the constructors and whilst we are only eight races in I think it would take a lot for them to be knocked off the top spot.

Red Bull

Another poor day for Red Bull. I have no idea what is going on with the team and with Renault. Horner has come out and said that what is happening is unacceptable, it's not often I feel sorry for Seb but seeing him being interview with Leigh he just looked on the verge of tears and he couldn't get his words out. Would it be too sick of me to wish Webber had been conducted the interview? Riccardio clearly has more to give but has the team?

Force India

It was good to see both FI drivers getting points and proving that they have what it takes to run with th big boys.

Ferrari

They may not be out of the running just yet but with Alonso back in forth and Raikkonen back in eleventh surely questions have to be asked.

Over all it was I think a good race. I am not sure it was the best of this year and frankly if I was Horner I would have told Seb to come back in a lot earlier to save the engine. I really don't understand why they kept him out for as long as they did even before the incident with the front wing. With him being that far back it would seem to have made sense to bring him in earlier.

[honeykid]

I became a little bored with it after about half distance, but then, I'd not been awake long.

No one's getting close to Mercedes, I've told you that already. :D It's between Nico and Lewis, both of whom were good today, Lewis particularly. That first lap was outstanding, even for someone in the best car. However, driver of the day, as it is most races because he's the best out there, is Alonso. How he's geting that car fourth/fifth race in, race out is fantastic. I wouldn't go quite so far as to say the Ferrari is as bad as Kimi is driving it (but that's because I don't think he has it in him) but I think its true position is far closer to his times and positions than it is in Alonso's hands.

Felt for Seb, again, today. Hopefully this is just all the bad luck he's dodged in the last four years catching up with him and, next year, he can go racing again. He's just lost, though. He doesn't know what to do and it'll be interesting to see how/if he develops as a driver over the next couple of seasons.

Pleased to see Botas up there on the podium, not that I did as I'd turned it off by then, :D but you know what I mean. BTW, what happened with Kvyat? Did he hit something or did his rear right just collapse for some reason?

[windsoc]

It certainly was a interesting statistic that Seb has retired more times this one season in the last three years. Ouch.

To be honest I am unsure of what happened with Kvyat. I would like to see the footage and see what happened but what I did was a "f**kin h**l!" moment when I saw it. I also wonder if TR deserved a penalty for a unsafe release because it looked like it to me.

I have never really cared about Kimi. I get that arrogance can sometimes get you somewhere in life but he just bores me. He is just not that entertaining.

You are probably right to be fair HK, I am unsure of anyone will catch up with Merc but who will take it over all?

[honeykid]

Did Toro Rosso not get a penalty for that? It really did look like an unsafe release.

I see Gutierrez has been given a 10 place penalty for Silverstone for the Sauber unsafe release. That one's not unexpected, of course, but it's a shame for him, as the light was definitely green.

I liked Kimi because he was a great driver. His talent was obvious from the moment he came into F1 and, considering how little racing he'd done before that in the usual formulas, everyone else had seen it too. I also like that he doesn't care, like most of them, but unlike most of them, he doesn't pretend he does. There's no beaming smile or awkward glaces. It's a stoney face and a glaced expression. He speaks as plainly too. I'd quite like him to become a co-commentator and studio analysts when he retires. It may be a bit dull, but I can't think he'd pull any punches and in a world where no one wants to mess up their contacts book, impact their revenue streams or damage their earning potential, that'd be the clearest, most freshing thing to happen in years.

I don't know which will win between the two Mercedes drivers. I think Nico is the cooler, more controlled driver, but Lewis has the talent to take/make points that Nico can't. I'd go with Nico because he's already ahead, might have already gotten into Lewis' head and really seems to be becoming a world class driver.

[windsoc]

Did Toro Rosso not get a penalty for that? It really did look like an unsafe release.

I see Gutierrez has been given a 10 place penalty for Silverstone for the Sauber unsafe release. That one's not unexpected, of course, but it's a shame for him, as the light was definitely green.

I didn't see any mention of it but when I saw it the first thing I thought was "unsafe" but nothing seemed to come of it so I am unsure, maybe Helmut Marko didn't want anything to happen to hinder Red Bull to much but I am unsure.

As for the Sauber release I always feel sorry for the drivers in this circumstance because they have no way of knowing if there is a problem, if they are told to go they go and they should not be held to blame for that. Should it be a monetary fine rather than a race fine?

[honeykid]

You could argue that a 10 place penalty is a monetary fine, as it'll affect the money they'll win and the amount of time their onscreen and, therefore, the advertising side of the business. Sponsors like to see their money on the screen and, the more likely that is, the more they pay. But I know what you mean. A definite amount would, at least, let everyone know where they stand.

It does seem a shame for the driver but, now more than ever, F1 feels like a team sport to me, so maybe it's in keeping with that?

[windsoc]

To be fair you may be right on the team element and the attitude may be "if we get it wrong all involved should be punished", what I would say is I would hate to the person who got it wrong. I think it is unfair but I guess they have to do it the way they do to punish people in the simplest way they can. One thing I did intend to write about before but forgot was the release and one of the engineers. I can't find a clip of it but at one stage one the pit crew when the release what has happened basically puts his hand in front of the wheel as if he wishes to stop it. I am not sure if he was just not concentrating but I would be amazed if he was not hurt.

[honeykid]

I think I remember that, too. It's a natural reaction and one you often see when a driver pulls out of the pits and someone knows/notices something's wrong. They wear gloves, but I suspect there'd be some bruising.

It's starting to sound as if Alonso might've had his time at Ferrari. That interview he gave at the weekend sounded like someone who's decided that this is the time to move and have one more go at a title that, I'm sure, he thinks he deserves. I could've just been the end of another disappointing weekend, but I think there's a difference between finishing behind Mercedes/Red Bull and finishing behind both Williams. Especially when one was a teammate you regularly beat.

Vettel and Alonso switch next season?

[windsoc]

I have said on a couple of occasions I am not sure if Vettel & Alonso could share a team. Both are too competitive to share and eco system in my mind. The thing is that on balance if I were Vettel I would be sticking with Horner and sticking with Red Bull, yes things have been bad of late but lets be honest, they have been bad for Ferrari for much longer.

It must be gutting for Alonso seeing Massa doing so well. I am unsure of the relationship between the two of them in all honesty, they seemed to either be very quiet, I did not pay attention or I have forgotten and the last two are very real possibilities with my mind.

I think for a long time the money has been that the next natural step for Vettel was to go to Ferrari and basically follow in his mentors footsteps in Schumacher but honestly, I don't think I would be giving up on RB yet. Whether RB will give up on him before that is another question.

[honeykid]

I think RB will want to have him for, at least, one more season with a competitive car.

I can't see Alonso and Vettel together in a team, either. I think Alonso and Massa were pretty good friends. I don't know, but that's what I think for some reason. I don't know if I read it somewhere or if it was how they were together, but that's the impression I have.

[windsoc]

Potential new change in the F1 world:

Formula 1: standing re-starts after safety car to be introduced

Formula 1 is to introduce standing re-starts following a safety-car period from next season.

The move, intended to make place changes more likely at a re-start, is one of a series of rule changes introduced by governing body the FIA.

Among them, the rules on noses will be changed to prevent the 'anteater' noses that predominate this season.

Driver reaction to the re-start change was mixed when news of the plan leaked at last weekend's Austrian Grand Prix.

Ferrari's Fernando Alonso said he had no strong opinions, while championship leader Nico Rosberg said it was "extreme".

The Mercedes driver added: "I understand the start is one of the most exciting times for the fans but it sounds very extreme so I hope it's not going to be done.

“Maybe it will be more exciting because there is a bit more variability but to me that's a bit too artificial”

Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull driver

"It's going too far with things. I don't want to see such a huge change to do another start."

Source: BBC Sport (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28049442)

No doubt this is an interesting idea and it could potentially put more exciting results into the sport but as Ricciardo goes on to say this is very artificial. Red Bull have speed (well they did) in the straights, this is known, Mercedes tends to be good in the corners so if for example the Mercs were P1 and P2 and RB were in P4 and P5 on a straight RB could potentially just steam role past Mercedes just because they happen to have the power on the straights.

I really wish Bernie would stop fiddling around trying to make it more exciting because honestly it just feels like every time he does it makes something worse.

[Tacitus]

Boom. The Championship is a contest once again. ;)

Rosberg's retirement ruined the spectacle of a battle for the lead but we made up for it with Vettel and Alonso trying every trick in the book for half the race. Terrific stuff.

Poor old Filipe. He looks like a kid badly in need of an ice cream at the moment but that bit of avoiding action he took on Kimi's accident was probably the best bit of driving I've seen all year. Heart stopping.

[honeykid]

I wasn't really in the mood for it today. Then there was the hour wait and, once Nico went out, tbh, I turned it off. Checked back in every now and then, but I didn't figure I'd miss anything important. Glad there was some entertainment for those that stuck around. :)

[Tacitus]

Yeah, apart from the ding dong battle between Alonso and Vettel the race wasn't a classic. Once Hamilton started taking a second a lap out of Rosberg you sensed he'd win, retirement from Nico or not.

Button drove excellently in a dog of a car, Bottas is continuing to enhance his reputation and Ricciardo is looking more and more like a multi-World Champ in the making. From the point of view of the show it's just a shame that the Merc is still so dominant - Hamilton was able to sneak in a tyre change at the end and still finished in a different time zone to the rest.

[windsoc]

It might have been the hour long wait but I agree, this race was nothing special. The sad thing is I was pumped to see this race at the beginning but the break hurt it. I appreciate that they did what they had to do, Niki Lauda coming out and saying it wasn't necessary and it was damaging to the sport was just ridiculous, yes I agree that some things need to change but safety should be the number one concern, always. I am pleased that Kimi and Massa were able to walk away from the incident unhurt, it looked scary and it is the first time in a long time that I remember seeing a red flag in a race.


Other wise a bland affair with the exception of the fight between Alonso and Vettel however there so much moaning on both parts I just wanted to slap Seb and tell him just to get on with it. I got so sick of hearing him counting things off "daddy daddy! he did a wrong thing!" - shut up and leave it down the to FIA.

Still it was a good day for some, I was pleased to see both Bottas and Ricciardo do so well and really they should be the story of the day.

[honeykid]

It might have been the hour long wait but I agree, this race was nothing special. The sad thing is I was pumped to see this race at the beginning but the break hurt it. I appreciate that they did what they had to do, Niki Lauda coming out and saying it wasn't necessary and it was damaging to the sport was just ridiculous, yes I agree that some things need to change but safety should be the number one concern, always. I am pleased that Kimi and Massa were able to walk away from the incident unhurt, it looked scary and it is the first time in a long time that I remember seeing a red flag in a race.
I agree with Lauda that there was no chance of that accident happening again, however, should it have done so, you can imagine the outcry. Quite rightly. They had to do it.

I see that Kimi hit the barrier with an impact of 47G. :eek:


Other wise a bland affair with the exception of the fight between Alonso and Vettel however there so much moaning on both parts I just wanted to slap Seb and tell him just to get on with it. I got so sick of hearing him counting things off "daddy daddy! he did a wrong thing!" - shut up and leave it down the to FIA.
This has started to feel like footballers moaning to the ref over everything. They know it'll be aired and they know the stewards will have to look at it. The more they moan, the more likely that they'll get the next decision.

[Tacitus]

The bit about modern radio chatter which is beginning to irk me is the "Lewis, Nico is braking later than you into turn two" and "Nico, Lewis is carrying more speed through turn four and has a comedy dog" stuff.

I guess it reinforces just how invested both sides of the garage are in making their guy come out on top but I didn't hear any of it last year when Ross was in charge. ;)

[windsoc]

The only reason I can think they are doing these radio messages is to show that there are no favourites being played and they are not using team orders, I could be wrong but that is my assumption. Part of me likes the feed back because it does make it more interesting but I agree, this did not happen that often in previous years.

Can anyone remember the other crash that happened? I remember a car getting "good air time" but can't remember who was involved.

[honeykid]

Wasn't it Maldonado? I seem to remember it being a Lotus.

[Fabulous]

I wasn't able to catch the race but heard Alonso was fantastic. The Scuderia has been in complete shambles this season. Pretty much a write off at this point.

[honeykid]

Yeah, Ferrari started off poorly, as expected, but they've not moved up at all. There'll be more Mercedes engined cars next year, too, so they need to up their game hugely. I wouldn't even bother with the rest of this season.

[Tacitus]

I'm sure Alonso's angling seriously for a move now. The team are even further adrift than last season when he was making eyes at Red Bull.

Where could he go though? Red Bull and Merc are locked out (although Jordan was spouting something about Hamilton and Alonso swapping) which just leaves the less well funded teams and McLaren who are even worse than Ferrari. With Ron back in charge I don't know who would be less pleased about working with the other - Alonso or Dennis.

Williams? Fernando would bring all that Santander money with him so Sir Frank's money problems would be over...

[windsoc]

I remember a few years ago (I think it was 2011) and Ferrari basically saying "we are writing this season off and concentrating on the next season", then the season after they did the same thing. How many more times can this go on? If I was Alonso I would seriously be looking to jump ship but the person I feel most sorry for is Räikkönen, twice he has come back to the prancing horse and twice it has gone wrong, he has got to be thinking "why didn't I stay away?".

Alonso is in a bad position in the same way the Vettel is as we have discussed before. Where can he realistically go and more to the point how much longer does have left? I know he is only 32 but that is still on two years younger than Jenson but when you look at the younger racers is it time to hang up his racing helmet? It is a scary prospect as I turned 31 on sunday so am only a year younger then him but in F1 terms he is no spring chicken.

[Tacitus]

I could see Jenson hanging up his helmet at the end of the season. He's won a championship, acquitted himself well against one of the recognised benchmarks in Lewis and has got that easy going personality which would have TV companies clamouring over him should he wish to move into punditry.

Let's face it - He's got a bit more Formula 1 experience than Alan McNish. ;)

[honeykid]

Yep. Wasted his best years and lucked into a championship. British and easy going. Probably won't ruffle any feathers Yep, sounds like they'll love him. ;)

[windsoc]

And so a good day concludes a good week for Nico Rosberg. I don't follow him as a fan as such but I am pleased he is doing as well as he is. The big news of the day has to be the collision between Magnussen and Massa.

It has emerged that Massa has blamed Magnussen for the crash. I have looked at the footage from the BBC a few times and I really don't believe it was his fault. It looks to me like Magnussen hugged the line and Massa went into him, maybe not maliciously but I just don't see where Magnussen was meant to go.

Aside from that I don't think it was an amazing race, I wouldn't say it was dull by any means and good on Hamilton for doing as well as he did to come back from where he did. As much as the BBC tried to hype up the battle between Alonso and Vettel I was not as engaged though seeing Alonso and Raikkonen was quite impressive.

I may watch the replay again as it is possible I missed something but over all not a great race in my opinion.

[honeykid]

Great race from Hamilton. Had he been driving a Ferrari, I'd have sworn Schumacher was driving. You could see that he didn't give a hoot about the others in those early laps, if he hit them and went out, so be it. He was ultra aggressive and, only once he got to around the top 5 or 6 did he start to drive smartly. A great job, though, by both him and the team.

From what I saw it wasn't that Magnussen had somewhere to go as much as it was he shouldn't have been there in the first place. You have to be more aware than that. Difficult, I'll grant you, but it's a mistake I doubt he'd make in a year or two. Shame for Massa though. To be taken out is one thing, to have it happen when you have a car that can get you a podium is always hurts more, I think.

I thought the few laps between Alonso and Ricardo were really good. Some excellent racing.

Bottas drove a good race, too.

Overall, I enjoyed the race today, which is pleasing because I've not the last couple.

[Tacitus]

So the Vettel to Ferrari rumours (which I first heard early last year) were true. His performances this season make a lot more sense now - he's been phoning it in and with a young, keen team mate (who's super quick) been made to look rather pedestrian.

He's at the right age to move and probably couldn't afford the chance of Ricciardo beating him again next season and still bargain on a top tier drive. Kimi will keep him honest and, you never know, Ferrari might even have a car next year worthy of the name.

It's a gamble for Fernando but he's got nowhere else to turn. Merc have Rosberg on a multi-year deal and apparently want to tie Hamilton down to a longer contract. They also don't need the Santander money... Red Bull are promoting from within and Williams are still at risk of being a one season wonder.

I can remember Ron saying a few months ago that McLaren have a big title sponsor for next year so I wonder if Fernando signed a while back? Presuming he does, of course. ;)

It also leaves Jenson free to join the BBC. Poor Alan McNish. :(

[honeykid]

What happened with the crash? I saw the repeat and they didn't show it. I heard he hit a recovery truck. Was it on the track or did he go off?

[Tacitus]

He hit the crane which was recovering Sutil's car. Everyone seemed to miss it because the wreck was on the other side of the crane.

I wondered why the FIA feed was showing the Marussia pit crew and the commentators made no mention of why. Great race made understandably sombre by what happened. I hope Bianchi's going to be ok but the shots of the wreckage don't fill me with hope.