2014 FIFA World Cup Finals Discussion

[VFN]

Does Germany look a little too casual in their offense? They're dominating possession but their attacks look half-hearted.

[Daniel M]

HK: Have you seen Uruguay have appealed now? I think that's quite silly and risks FIFA coming down with a harsher punishment as a warning to them, especially with a lot agreeing with the punishment. Quite worried as a Liverpool fan that he could miss more games, if the appeal fails I would punish Uruguay more as it is them appealing, Liverpool just need to get a statement out and accept it/cooperate as to not make themselves look silly either.

[Cobpyth]

That wasn't a FIFA ban for Witsel, was it? I'd have assumed it was a UEFA and/or Belgian FA ban.

FIFA is always the main authority, so that doesn't really matter.

[Cobpyth]

Congratulations, US! Most likely you will be facing Belgium in the next round (we'll be sure about that tonight).


Too bad Ronaldo wasn't able to finish more of his chances, but at least he matched Klinsmann's record of having scored on 6 big tournaments consecutively, which is pretty impressive.

[-KhaN-]

Did we all forget he bit a man?And its not his first time...He is player of Liverpool,he is contracted to Liverpool and he is representing Liverpool,he is face of Liverpool,so yea...Also,how can they punish Suarez without punishing Liverpool?What you want them to give him money punishment or what?Pff,yea that would hurt him...I don't love organizations like FIFA and UEFA but I think this was fair punishment.

[honeykid]

HK: Have you seen Uruguay have appealed now? I think that's quite silly and risks FIFA coming down with a harsher punishment as a warning to them, especially with a lot agreeing with the punishment. Quite worried as a Liverpool fan that he could miss more games, if the appeal fails I would punish Uruguay more as it is them appealing, Liverpool just need to get a statement out and accept it/cooperate as to not make themselves look silly either.
Yes, they announced they'd appeal as soon as FIFA made its statement. I do agree that, if they appeal and are further punished, that should be on Uruguay only. Not that I'd mind if they heaped it on the Scousers too. :p:D

It's a tricky one for Liverpool. If there's nothing to the rumours of Suarez leaving/moving, then you certainly don't want the ban to be extended. However, if they're looking/thinking they'll have to sell, then I doubt it'll affect the price too much and, therefore, they won't care. It could also be that an announcement agreeing with the ban/length of ban might aggravate the situation with Suarez., unsettling him and have him looking for the door. I may hate them, but I don't envy them this one and the best course of action might be to do nothing.

FIFA is always the main authority, so that doesn't really matter.
But they're not directly involved in the punishment. They might sanction it, but it's the individual FA's that sit and decide the punishments and severity.

EDIT: Forgot the reason I came in here. Congrats USA. :up:

[christine]

I don't like the fact that Liverpool is now being punished because of this incident.

Heh I love this fact ;)

I have a sneaky feeling he won't be back playing in this country somehow . If he does he's going to have to face a lot of stick and I dunno if he's up for that.

Hun I'm not surprised the footage is now your fave. Every time I think about it it makes me smile


Edit - of course congrats to USA!

[Cobpyth]

Alright, this is how the round of 16 looks like:

Brazil - Chile

Colombia - Uruguay

Netherlands - Mexico (Mexico is playing really strong, though, so this one will be tricky)

Costa Rica - Greece

France - Nigeria

Germany - Algeria

Argentina - Switzerland (Argentina will have to play a little better, though)

Belgium - United States (it won't be easy and Belgium will have to play better)


These are my "predictions" (pretty much the obvious predictions everyone would make, I think). What are we thinking after the group stage? What team is showing the most promise to get far according to you?

[Skepsis93]

If there's a team capable of an upset there, I think it's Chile.

[Cobpyth]

The Netherlands didn't have that many problems with them, though. It would also be kind of hallucinatory if Brazil would already be out of the tournament at this stage, especially because they're the home country. I don't see them screwing things up yet, but I could be wrong of course.

[Chardee MacDennis]

If Vidal is fit Chile has a chance.

Brazil has been pretty patchy, and they've got one of the worst starting striker in the tournament but I think they'll be too strong. Surely they'd drop that turd Paulinho and play Fernandinho. Paulinho isn't even the best Brazilian midfielder at tottenham, god knows how he's managed to become a starter for the national team.

[honeykid]

On last night's Mock The Week. Commnercials that never made it to air.

Steven Gerrard drinks Lucozade. This has been a Red Bull commercial

Have you booked Joe Hart to advertise your product? Have you paid for advertising space until the end of the world cup? Then you might be entitled to compensation.

[honeykid]

How many defenders will be wearing these next season when marking Suarez?

http://americansports.co.uk/shop/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/500x500/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/u/full_force_shoulder_pads_2.jpg

[Guaporense]

Suffering, suffering,.... Brazil is not playing well but we survived thanks to JC.While Germany, Holland and France got lucky to face Algeria, Mexico and Nigeria now. Much easier. Chile could have won the world cup if they passed to the quarterfinals.

[honeykid]

For those who haven't seen it yet.

http://bitemangame.com/

It is a shame that Chile had to play Brazil this early. I don't know that they could've won the world cup, but they were great to watch.

[Camo]

Suffering, suffering,.... Brazil is not playing well but we survived thanks to JC.While Germany, Holland and France got lucky to face Algeria, Mexico and Nigeria now. Much easier. Chile could have won the world cup if they passed to the quarterfinals.

Mexico is easy? Holland dealt with Chile quite easily, while Brazil were lucky to get a win against Croatia, and Mexico was a 0-0 draw, they also nearly lost in extra time against Chile who were by far the better team imo. Brazil have been dissapointing so far imo, other than Neymar and flashes from D.Alves,Marcelo,Oscar and; Hulk tonight they've been fortunate so far imo.

Goal of the tournament so far from James tonight. Van Persies first against Spain, Cahill's volley against Holland and Dempsey's 30 second goal against Ghana are up there for me too. Player of the tournament has been Arjen Robben for me so far, followed by Neymar,Messi,James and Benzema in no particular order.

Out of interest who are the England fans supporting now, if anybody? I'm one of the few Scots who supports England after Scotland and ROI (family), is out or didn't qualify :p. Columbia for me right now followed by the US, sorry Cobpyth and Mr Minio (if you even care) :)

[VFN]

Is this Brazilian team as good as past cup teams? From what I saw today, they don't look as impressive.

[Camo]

Is this Brazilian team as good as past cup teams? From what I saw today, they don't look as impressive.

It's better than their last two WC teams, but if they win it they'll be the weakest of their winners imo. The thing that has shocked me most about them so far is how poor a back four like this has done; - Alves - Luiz - Silva - Marcelo. It goes to show that teams or positions that look solid on paper can fail, this was pretty much the case with the pre-2008 Spain side.

[VFN]

Thanks. I seem to remember Brazilian teams playing a really different, freestyle, joyous, highly skilled brand of football that I didn't see at all today, even though they appeared to dominate possession against Chile. Then again, I don't watch that often so maybe I'm off about this.

I saw Germany against the US and their short passing game looks fantastic. What's their chances?

[honeykid]

Out of interest who are the England fans supporting now, if anybody? I'm one of the few Scots who supports England after Scotland and ROI (family), is out or didn't qualify :p. Columbia for me right now followed by the US, sorry Cobpyth and Mr Minio (if you even care) :)
I don't really support anyone once England go out. There again, I don't really support England. :D I watch them and I want them to win, but it's not like supporting United.

It's better than their last two WC teams, but if they win it they'll be the weakest of their winners imo. The thing that has shocked me most about them so far is how poor a back four like this has done; - Alves - Luiz - Silva - Marcelo. It goes to show that teams or positions that look solid on paper can fail, this was pretty much the case with the pre-2008 Spain side.
It's not a golden age for defenders, though. Maybe it's just the combination of what's expected from a full back these days, which leaves the CB's more exposed and, therefore, more likely to be made to pay for any mistakes, combined with the rule changes, but when you think Brazil have the world's most expensive central defender pairing and then look at them, it's quite shocking really.

BTW, I don't Brazil have been the Samba style Brazil since '82 at the latest. Maybe since as early as '70.

[Camo]

They may have failed to produce beautiful football since '82, but who has? Possibly Barcelona over a short period of time recently, and the Ac Milan - Dutch trio team. Even the late 90's/early 00's Madrid team, which was possibly the most star studded team ever; failed to produce the sort of football you'd expect from them. 2002 is the closest we've had since of a quality National team living up to expectations.

[honeykid]

I think that has to do with the number of S.American players playing in Europe.

Not only that, but the game has changed. It's far more tactical now than it was before and there's some much infomation about and the players are extremely aware of each other and how they play. Tthe margins are narrower. Forty years ago when you heard about S.American players, pretty much the only time you'd have seen them play (as a European) would've been at a world cup. You'd have no idea who they were, what they looked like or how they played. Now every eight year old has been aware of Neymar for the last 4 or 5 years because they've seen him on youtube.

[Camo]

Yeah, that's a very good point. I'm at the age that Euro 2000 is the first major tournament i remember. So players like Ronaldo,Rivaldo and my fav Cafu and now Messi and the like, are readily available throughout the years in european leagues.

[VFN]

Heard a football analyst on the radio tonight who said Brazil hasn't had a really good team in a while, that this year's squad has but one star who's carrying most of the load. He also remarked that Uruguay's problem against Colombia yesterday was that their offense lacked bite.

[Tacitus]

How many defenders will be wearing these next season when marking Suarez?

http://americansports.co.uk/shop/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/500x500/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/u/full_force_shoulder_pads_2.jpg

The cheaper option would be to make the headcase wear this:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b69/greenspagbol/the-silence-of-the-lambs-hannibal-lecter-mask-2_zps20f29d8f.jpg~original (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/greenspagbol/media/the-silence-of-the-lambs-hannibal-lecter-mask-2_zps20f29d8f.jpg.html)

Yep, hellocosplay is definitely in my bookmarks. 100%. :p

[honeykid]

Heard a football analyst on the radio tonight who said Brazil hasn't had a really good team in a while, that this year's squad has but one star who's carrying most of the load.
I think it's true that this Brazil team only has one really good attacking player in Neymar. Brazil are, actually, quite a defensive team, especially when you consider the samba style stereotype. Let's face it, one of their most attack minded players is their centre back. If Neymar should be injured or suspended, it'll be a very workmenlike Brazil.

It's slightly strange, seeing as they, essentially, have two defensive midfielders at centre back. It could be the most attacking backline in history as there isn't a defender among them. :D

He also remarked that Uruguay's problem against Colombia yesterday was that their offense lacked bite.
Very nice. :)

Brilliant goal last night. Maybe goal of the tournament so far, however, am I the only person who really likes (to the point I'm still not sure it's not the best goal) Chile's second goal against Spain? The vision and composure needed to create that goal is immense and I think I respect and rate that more.

[Guaporense]

Is this Brazilian team as good as past cup teams? From what I saw today, they don't look as impressive.

On paper it is not as good as the 2002 and 2006 teams, which were by far the best national teams in the world at those times. Still we lost in 2006, football is not something predictable.

I still think it's comparable to the 1994 team which won but thanks to great effort.

Still, it's rated among the top 2-3 in the world by Elo rating: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Football_Elo_Ratings

Holland is now first place thanks to their victory against Mexico.

Over the past 4 games Brazil has been certainly superior to the teams they played, having greater volume of attack in all games. As expected. Though we have very hard games: now we play Colombia, which is a very, very strong team and if we survive to the semi-finals we will probably play Germany.

Spain (obviously) and Argentina so far has been the most disappointing team among the favorites. Argentina will have a though time against Switzerland.

This cup has been very competitive, Holland almost lost to Mexico, for instance, if not for the miracle in the last minutes.

[Guaporense]

I don't really support anyone once England go out. There again, I don't really support England. :D I watch them and I want them to win, but it's not like supporting United.

In 2006 I was actively supporting Brazil's defeat. I though they were simply too arrogant at that time, given that they appeared to think that they would be already in the semifinal at the beginning of the tournament. As Ronaldo said in an interview: "the world cup is seven games." In the end I got my wish fullfilled as we lost to France in the quarterfinals and Ronaldo only got 5 games to play :D. Still, mathematically it's obvious that in recent world cups the favorite team chances are not higher than 30-40% in winning it so it was a rather safe bet.

In 2010 and now I am rotting for Brazil though because they are comparatively underdogs to the past few world cups.

BTW, I don't Brazil have been the Samba style Brazil since '82 at the latest. Maybe since as early as '70.

Still they more fun to watch than Germany's little robots passing the ball though like machines.

[Guaporense]

Mexico is easy?

I think they are easier than Chile. Though not truly easy like Argelia and Nigeria. Holland got lucky to win against them.

Holland dealt with Chile quite easily, while Brazil were lucky to get a win against Croatia

Well Brazil certainly had a great amount of chances of scoring against Croatia while Croatia had fewer chances. Brazil had most of the ball possession as well. https://www.google.com/search?q=world+cup&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&gws_rd=ssl#q=brazil+vs+croatia&stick=H4sIAAAAAAAAAGOovnz8BQMDQx-H0CPGDkZugScXeyWl6oVEuNgck0sy8_OEuLg4wvOLclKcSwuExLk4gwvyi0r8EnNTQRL6ufoGRmUVJkKqXGw-qYnppalC0kKSXNxuRampSYnFqb6ZKTBlxgaF5kLqXKy-iSXJGUJyQjKoqni5uEGqDA3yCkuy0ni2Flw_M_eAzDTHz-Hfl-m8vpBaETMfAJ3COS-rAAAA

and Mexico was a 0-0 draw, they also nearly lost in extra time against Chile who were by far the better team imo.

Chile did not appear to be superior to Brazil. Brazil had certainly much greater volume of attack and we also did not get a penalti early in the game. Statistically we might say that Chile got lucky though they played extremely well compared to previous history when we usually had 3-0 easily against it. Chile put their souls into the game yesterday.

I would say that Holland got even more lucky than Brazil. Mexico had more chances at scoring for the first 50 minutes and them when they scored they pulled back and only defended, defended, defended, until their defense broke. I think that sort of strategy doesn't tend to work though they put an attacker at the middle of the second period.

Player of the tournament has been Arjen Robben for me so far, followed by Neymar,Messi,James and Benzema in no particular order.

Robben is a demon.

[Guaporense]

It's better than their last two WC teams,

So how can you be disappointed with Brazil now, you was expecting a team that was indisputably the world's best like in 1970? Also, on paper this team is also much weaker than 2006's team, which did not perform as expected as well.

but if they win it they'll be the weakest of their winners imo. The thing that has shocked me most about them so far is how poor a back four like this has done; - Alves - Luiz - Silva - Marcelo.

I am mostly disappointed with the poor articulation of our team though (i.e. lack of midfield). Not sure if it is their weakest win, in 1994 the team wasn't stellar as well. Brazil suffers from having to shoulder excessive expectations: we won 5 times, we are always among the favorites and in our country we are always expecting to win all the time. Disappointment is unavoidable.

It goes to show that teams or positions that look solid on paper can fail, this was pretty much the case with the pre-2008 Spain side.

Football is a very stochastic game. The favorite team has only like 60% chances of winning a match. Spain's case for example.

Also, if you count the goals notice that Brazil only suffered 2 goals in 4 matches (ignoring the own goal by Marcelo in the first match) while, for instance, Holland suffered 4 goals in 4 matches. 0.5 goals per match is a very low average though we need more games to arrive at a stronger statistic. But, the defense doesn't appear to be that bad in the stats so far.

They may have failed to produce beautiful football since '82, but who has?

Watch the Brazilian league. :D Tons of beautiful stuff there.

[gandalf26]

http://giant.gfycat.com/SoftElegantHadrosaurus.gif

[honeykid]

Brazil suffers from having to shoulder excessive expectations: we won 5 times, we are always among the favorites and in our country we are always expecting to win all the time. Disappointment is unavoidable.
Up until this world cup it was the same in England. Only we've won the cup once and failed to qualify three times. :D Now that's pressure. Expectation when you know you have no chance of winning.

I say there wasn't any expectation this time around, and yet, we go out in the group stage and, for some reason, they get ripped on again. Despite it being the most likely outcome considering the team and the group. Even when we expect less we still expect, it seems. :(

[Optimus]

Very exciting World Cup so far. I really can't call who's going to win it. I think Brazil might just edge it, but I look forward to the final no matter who makes it.

[gandalf26]

https://i.embed.ly/1/display/resize?key=1e6a1a1efdb011df84894040444cdc60&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FBrXATqDIMAAq2Ge.jpg

[Chardee MacDennis]

This WC is the best I can remember. Maybe not for the quality of football but it's had so much drama. No one has any idea who's going to end up winning. Every time one team looks like they might be favorites, they have a game where things don't seem to click.

Before this game I would've put my money on Germany, but here they are, 94 minutes in and still 0-0.

[honeykid]

1-0 now. If Algeria manage to come back from this, they should advance without even needing a penalty shootout.

[VFN]

I suppose Algeria had something to do with it, but Germany didn't look like a team to be feared yesterday.

[Chardee MacDennis]

Has anyone put in an amazing performance during the round of 16 yet?

For the first time in a few years anyone can win it. Thank god Spain have finally crumbled.

[honeykid]

Both Germany and Brazil, so far, look just like the team that goes on to win the world cup. Powerhouses, who don't look impressive in the early stages, stumbling through, getting a few scares and needing a little luck. Obviously I'm not sticking my neck out saying Brazil or Germany could win it, but I can't think of a team that played wonderfully, right from the start, and won the tournament.

[The Rodent]

So like, these Footballers wearing different coloured boots on each foot at this year's World Cup...


Is that so they know which boot is for the right foot, and which boot is for the left foot?


I thought initially it would have been easier to put an R and an L on them, but then it dawned on me... Footballers don't understand the utter complexity of the Alphabet.

[Tacitus]

It all started when Aaron Hughes told his Fulham team mates that Jimmy Cricket was far better than Soulja Boy.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b69/greenspagbol/JimmyCricket_zps7e17d40c.jpg~original (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/greenspagbol/media/JimmyCricket_zps7e17d40c.jpg.html)

[honeykid]

They've annoyed me all season.:mad:

[Chardee MacDennis]

What's worse? The different coloured boots or the goalkeepers wearing different coloured gloves.

It's just a Puma thing I think. I'm pretty sure they only introduced those boots a couple of weeks before the end of the season. I remember Cazorla wearing them for the first time in the FA Cup final and thinking he looked like a dick. Then I noticed Sagna and Arteta had them too.

[honeykid]

Was it that recent? I could've sworn it was longer.

Are Belgium going to make it a perfect eight for the group winners? I've not been able to pay attention to the game so far, but I thought it would be a good game between a side which, if it can become a team, should really be able to scare anyone versus a team which is much more than the sum of its parts.

66 minutes gone and still 0-0.

[donniedarko]

I know It's not, over-over, but congrats Belgium. You deserve this.

Also regardless of how this extra time has been going, Tim Howard is a beast.

[Chardee MacDennis]

I remember that ******** Assou Ekotto wearing different coloured boots for Spurs a couple of years ago but I'm fairly sure these pink and blue pumas are only recent. Haha they must be that bad that they've affected you that much.

Origi went off at the start of ET but he was phenomenal apparently, aside from his finishing. Word is Liverpool have signed him, which is unfortunate, he looks like a bit of talent.

De Bruyne and Lukaku have struck in ET. Game over. The US missed an absolute sitter a minute or two before the end of regular time.

[jiraffejustin]

You guys.... this game....

[mark f]

This extra time is pretty exciting. :)

[honeykid]

OMG!!! That save from Dempsey!!

[jiraffejustin]

I am dying here

[honeykid]

If this goes to penalties I can't imagine the drama.

[honeykid]

Don't shoot from there! Keep the pressure up.

[honeykid]

I think that it. Unless they give the USA the ball, they're not going to get another attack in.

[jiraffejustin]

I'm gonna be sick

[honeykid]

OK, this is it. Gotta be the last chance.

[honeykid]

That's it. Congrats Belgium. USA played their hearts out and should be extremely proud of themselves.

[jiraffejustin]

Gutted by that finish.

[christine]

Cracking game that! Tough luck USA but Belgium deserved the win. Tim Howard we love you xxx

[VFN]

2-1 is closer than the game played. USA has virtually no offense. It didn't help that Altidore was hurt, but they have like no skill players.

[Daniel M]

Clint Dempsey was extremely poor and offered nothing to the team up front, Jones was quite poor by his standards too. Howard had everything hit at his legs but had a good game. Right back was a beast, and I felt sorry for them come the end, unfortunate not to get a goal.

[Cobpyth]

Sick game.

Tim Howard was very alert and I was getting scared that Belgium was never going to be able to score. When they did, USA suddenly showed they're amazing survivors and frankly, it could've easily become 2-2 at the end. Our young Belgians were starting to panic (there's only one player in our group that ever played on a World Cup).

Anyway, I'm glad with the way my country played and let's hope they can beat Argentina.

Also congratulations to the USA, they played a great World Cup. I hope they finally caught the football/soccer fever!

[Chardee MacDennis]

I hope you guys get past Argentina too.

Can't stand them. All the attacking talent in the world but they have no idea how to use it. Their midfield and defense aren't even PL level.

[Chardee MacDennis]

If England or Spain played with as much heart as the US did they'd still be in the tournament. It's embarrassing that a team like USA has shown more passion than some of the big european sides. Especially condisdering "soccer" is so far down the list of things to give a s**t about in the US.

[LiaBens]

Latest Suarez Jokes

Mom: Happy birthday Suarez.
Suarez: Thanks mom.
Mom: Cut the Cake son
Suarez: Ok mom.
Mom: From that knife.... :rolleyes:

Generally In Other Sports We Have a Nail-Biting Finish... Soccer is Different !!! :yup:

And Last And Best One:
Suarez to girl: Do you believe in love at first bite? :p

[Chardee MacDennis]

He cheats, he dives
He hates the Jackson Five
Luis Suarez, Luis Suarez.

[christine]

Sick game.

Tim Howard was very alert and I was getting scared that Belgium was never going to be able to score. When they did, USA suddenly showed they're amazing survivors and frankly, it could've easily become 2-2 at the end. Our young Belgians were starting to panic (there's only one player in our group that ever played on a World Cup).

Anyway, I'm glad with the way my country played and let's hope they can beat Argentina.

Also congratulations to the USA, they played a great World Cup. I hope they finally caught the football/soccer fever!

Very entertaining match. Inspired use of Lukaku bringing him on late. He can be a right pudding, but when he has the spark he creates and scores some great goals . Good luck to Belgium , I hope you thrash Argentina!

[earlsmoviepicks]

What an inspiring performance by Tim Howard last night.
http://giant.gfycat.com/MarriedUnknownAmericanbadger.gif

[honeykid]

Can't stand them. All the attacking talent in the world but they have no idea how to use it. Their midfield and defense aren't even PL level.
I think the problem with Argentina is called Messi. He dictates how they play (literally) which nullifies the best use of their talents and, I think, is why they so often rely on a piece of Messi genius to get them out of trouble. England have a similar problem with Rooney atm. The difference being that, rather than having the team play to adapt to his strengths, he's included but played in positions where others would do a better job.

If England or Spain played with as much heart as the US did they'd still be in the tournament. It's embarrassing that a team like USA has shown more passion than some of the big european sides. Especially condisdering "soccer" is so far down the list of things to give a s**t about in the US.
It's not passion or heart or whatever that's the problem. It's fear and expectation.. That, and our managers (not just Hodgeson) reluctance to drop big players. Either due to lack of form or to get the best out of the team.

As for Spain, I think they're just at the end of their cycle and, despite having very good players coming in, they aren't of the ability of those there'll replace. That, and they've been playing non stop for 6 years.

[Tacitus]

What an inspiring performance by Tim Howard last night.

I think the guy in general is an inspiration in that he's been performing at that level for over a decade while also managing Tourette's syndrome. One of my best friends growing up had Tourette's (a more severe variety, granted) and watching him struggle was acutely painful. He killed himself on his 27th birthday.

Yep, Tim Howard's inspiring. :)

[VFN]

I really don't know much about goaltending but I think a lot of the shots he saved weren't that hard to defend although that may be due to his excellent positioning which made the angles tough.

[Chardee MacDennis]

It's not passion or heart or whatever that's the problem. It's fear and expectation.. That, and our managers (not just Hodgeson) reluctance to drop big players. Either due to lack of form or to get the best out of the team.


It'd definitely be a combination of things. But if this English team was bricking it because of the expectations they had for this tournament than they'll never win a thing.

Their main problem was having too many average players. Welbeck, Henderson, Jagielka, Gerrard and Johnson are dogs**t. That said, they have enough talent be able to finish above at least two of Italy, Costa Rica or Uruguay.

[VFN]

Outside of '66 and maybe '90 England really hasn't fared all that well in the World Cup.

[honeykid]

I really don't know much about goaltending but I think a lot of the shots he saved weren't that hard to defend although that may be due to his excellent positioning which made the angles tough.
He was well positioned, which is part of the job, however while he had a couple of great saves, most were fairly straightforward. But that was down to pretty routine placement of the shots. Still, they had to be saved and he did it well.

It'd definitely be a combination of things. But if this English team was bricking it because of the expectations they had for this tournament than they'll never win a thing.
They won't. I didn't think we'd win anything when we had Gerrard, Beckham, Lampard, Seaman, Campbell, Terry, Ferdinand, Owen, Shearer etc. I've not expected England to win since 86, which was when I realised that, despite the press saying otherwise, it appeared there were a great deal of better players and teams outside of Division One (as it was then.) English clubs won 7 of 8 European Cups from 76-84, yet didn't qualify for the 78 world cup and went out in the second round of the 82 world cup.

Their main problem was having too many average players. Welbeck, Henderson, Jagielka, Gerrard and Johnson are dogs**t. That said, they have enough talent be able to finish above at least two of Italy, Costa Rica or Uruguay.
I agree, but let's not pretend they're not the best available. You might argue someone like Osman over Henderson or Shawcross over Jagielka, but we're messing about with around the same level of player. You can also argue that the wrong players were played and in the wrong system but, again, I think this comes down to fear. I'm sure you'll get less flack for losing with Rooney playing out of position than you will playing and losing without Rooney. Ditto Gerrard. We could've played with both Sturridge and Rooney up front, playing through the middle and sacrificing the wide areas, but had we lost they'd have been crucified. I think losing with the same old, same old is easier/safer than losing having tried something different/new. I feel that's the real heart of the problem.

I didn't expect this team to get out of the group and it didn't. It was possible and, I have to admit feeling a little posititve after seeing them play against Italy, but it was back to usual after that.

They might have the talent, but that's not the problem. IMO, it's a mindset of fear, fuelled by unrealistic expectations coupled with a league which isn't concerned at all with the national team/game. The culture of football in this country is in club football and, especially, the Premier League and the big clubs in it. I'm part of that. I like England to win, but I care whether United win or not. If you look at the England fans that take the big flags to the games, they're almost exclusively lower league fans, You're much more likely to see a Stevenage or Notts County supporters flag than one from Liverpool or United, despite the latter two being the two biggest clubs in the country.

Outside of '66 and maybe '90 England really hasn't fared all that well in the World Cup.
This.

We have to remember that England didn't qualify for 74, 78 or 94. I feel we're a quarter finals nation and anything beyond that surpasses my expections.

[Nausicaä]

Oh $%^& off... dirty Germany players. :mad::furiousdevil::furious:

http://i711.photobucket.com/albums/ww120/AnnMarieAssang/TPullingHerHairOut01BGIF.gif

[Daniel M]

France were so disappointing, I was supporting them and they lacked any desire/urgency to win the game. Professional performance from the Germans. Hopefully tonight's game is more entertaining.

[Nausicaä]

^ Yep, unfortunately got that vibe off them, especially in the second half of the game. :(

[Camo]

1-0 to Brazil:( . I really want Columbia to win the WC, but i expected them to lose against Brazil.

I read earlier that FIFA have David Luiz ranked as the top player so far, i agree he's been good but i'd have James 1st and Robben,Messi and Benzema ahead of him also. I'd also question what seperates him from Thiago Silva so much except for his goal if you can call it that. Also no Messi but Vertonghen, Perisic and Djourou are included :eek:. Here's the top 10 and the article.

1) David Luiz, Brazil (9.79).
2) James Rodriguez, Colombia (9.74)
3) Karim Benzema, France (https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/france/) (9.7)
4) Arjen Robben, Netherlands (https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/teams/netherlands) (9.66)
5) Jan Vertonghen, Belgium (9.62)
6) Neymar, Brazil (9.59)
7) Thiago Silva (9.56)
8) Ivan Perisic (https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/players/ivan-perisic), Croatia (https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/croatia/) (9.53)
9) Johan Djourou, Switzerland (https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/switzerland/) (9.5)
10) Thomas Mueller (https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/players/thomas-m%C3%BCller), Germany (https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/germany/) (9.48)

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/the-rio-report/official-david-luiz-best-player-world-cup-162854791.html

[Optimus]

I did a £20 treble on Brazil, Germany and a UFC fight tomorrow. For £866, I really hope luck is with me :).

[Camo]

I did a £20 treble on Brazil, Germany and a UFC fight tomorrow. For £866, I really hope luck is with me :).

Best of luck to you. I won £,262 on a £.40 bet for Spain to win Euro 2008 with Villa as top scorer and Torres to score the first goal in the final.

[Optimus]

Thanks. I haven't won a bet in agers.

[Guaporense]

My god, Brazil has been extremely unlucky this cup. First we had the most difficult games in the round 16 (called "eightenfinals" in Brazil) against Chile if compared to the other favorites, France, Germany, Holland and Argentina. Then we had the most difficult game in the quarterfinals against Colombia, which was one of the top 5 strongest teams in the world according to the national teams Elo rating in July 1st, if compared to the other favorites, though Belgium and France are also decent teams, Holland has it easy against Costa Rica. And now, just before facing motherf*ing Germany at the semi-finals we lost our best player plus our excellent number 3.

Also, I was already predicting Brazil vs Germany at the semi-final, though I predicted Argentina versus Italy at the other semi-final. :D (I guess in the semifinals we will have Germany X Brazil, Argentina X Italy. I am hoping for Brazil X Argentina in the final because we never got to beat Argentina in the final, it will be the greatest world cup final ever! Epic!)

However, past history favors us even though our team now will play under-suboptimal conditions:

- Germany arrived at 12 semi-finals: lost 5 times and went to the finals 7 times, winning the cup 3 times.

- Brazil arrived 8 times at the semi-finals, won 7 times and went to the finals, winning the cup 5 times.

[Chardee MacDennis]

1-0 to Brazil:( . I really want Columbia to win the WC, but i expected them to lose against Brazil.

I read earlier that FIFA have David Luiz ranked as the top player so far, i agree he's been good but i'd have James 1st and Robben,Messi and Benzema ahead of him also. I'd also question what seperates him from Thiago Silva so much except for his goal if you can call it that. Also no Messi but Vertonghen, Perisic and Djourou are included :eek:. Here's the top 10 and the article.

1) David Luiz, Brazil (9.79).
2) James Rodriguez, Colombia (9.74)
3) Karim Benzema, France (https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/france/) (9.7)
4) Arjen Robben, Netherlands (https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/teams/netherlands) (9.66)
5) Jan Vertonghen, Belgium (9.62)
6) Neymar, Brazil (9.59)
7) Thiago Silva (9.56)
8) Ivan Perisic (https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/players/ivan-perisic), Croatia (https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/croatia/) (9.53)
9) Johan Djourou, Switzerland (https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/switzerland/) (9.5)
10) Thomas Mueller (https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/players/thomas-m%C3%BCller), Germany (https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/germany/) (9.48)

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/the-rio-report/official-david-luiz-best-player-world-cup-162854791.html

Any top 10 list with Djourou in it is just wrong.

[VFN]

So Brazil has to face Germany without Silva and Neymar. Looking good for Germany?

[Camo]

@Guap. Brazil facing teams that are clearly better than them like Chile or Columbia, is where luck and questionable decisions have taken place. Brazil should thank the refs for getting this far. I also doubt you've watched any of this WC, if you have and you still apply your usual statiscal analysis that is just as irrelavant to football as it is to movies then i pity you.

[Cobpyth]

So Brazil has to face Germany without Silva and Neymar. Looking good for Germany?

Jep. This should be game over for Brazil, but you never know.

[BlueLion]

This Argentina team has to be one of the worst teams to ever reach the semi-finals. So undeserved. Also Lukaku is so stupid for attempting a pass there where he should have simply hit it as hard as he could.

[honeykid]

Missed the start of todays game, when I came in it was 1-0. Decided there was no point watching the rest of it. Maybe it'd end 2-0 if Argentina got a late goal, but these are two poor teams. Wonderful players, but poor teams

If Brazil win, and it's a big if now, IMO, it might be an even more workmen like team than the 1994 team. This has been a great world cup, but there isn't a single great team here. Not that that's a bad thing. Makes it more exciting, if nothing else.

[Cobpyth]

Honeykid is right. There is not one single team that really stands out this edition. That's probably why we, Belgians, were able to get this far (besides the fact that we have some good players). :p

Anyway, I'm supporting The Netherlands now. It would be cool if they won.

[honeykid]

I'd love Holland to win the world cup, a bit like when you want an actor/actress to win an Oscar because they really should've won one by now. They've had some great teams and, consistantly, have some of the best players in the world, but they've yet to win it.

I can't cheer against Costa Rica, though. It's not the underdog thing, well, mostly not, it's the way they play and have played throughout the tournament.

After yesterday, though, it's starting to feel like Germany. I'd like Brazil to beat them, just because they're the home nation, but without Neymar they'll either be freed or dead in the water.

[christine]

@Cobpyth - sad to see the Belgians lose. I Almost feel they're part of Everton we have so many ex players in your national team!

Don't like Argentina at all. I'm supporting Netherlands now , but they'd better get their act together in this second half!

[VFN]

Amazing that a country of less than 5 million is in the quarters. Got to root for Costa Rica.

[honeykid]

Wasn't expecting this to be a walkover or anything, but I didn't think it'd go to extra time.

[honeykid]

This looks more like the Ruiz Fulham fans saw. Has he placed a pass yet?

[honeykid]

Huge decision. :eek:

[honeykid]

Do Costa Rica have the edge here?

[wintertriangles]

Intense shoot out. Yes Costa Rica had the edge. Had.

[VFN]

Apparently not. :)

[honeykid]

I'm pleased to see Holland go though because I think they have a better chance against Argentina. Costa Rica did wonderfully well. :)

[Cobpyth]

What a boss move from Van Gaal to bring another keeper to intimidate the players of Costa Rica and to give his own keeper in the goal more confidence.

EPIC shoot-out!

[BlueLion]

This just shows that penalties aren't all about luck. Krul guessed the right way each time so he was obviously prepared. Superb tactic by Van Gaal though, dude has balls of steel.

[Daniel M]

Van Gaal is an absolute egotistical c*nt, but that was a good idea and surprised it hasn't been done before. Got to kind of love (to hate?) these types of characters though, will be interesting in the PL next year.

[Tacitus]

Heh, yeah it was a brilliant bit of theatre.

Apparently Krul doesn't even have a particularly good record against penalties. The change was purely to mess with Costa Rican heads. ;)

[honeykid]

Van Gaal is an absolute egotistical c*nt, but that was a good idea and surprised it hasn't been done before. Got to kind of love (to hate?) these types of characters though, will be interesting in the PL next year.
Exactly what you need at United. :D I can't wait.

[Guaporense]

@Guap. Brazil facing teams that are clearly better than them like Chile or Columbia, is where luck and questionable decisions have taken place. Brazil should thank the refs for getting this far. I also doubt you've watched any of this WC, if you have and you still apply your usual statiscal analysis that is just as irrelavant to football as it is to movies then i pity you.

Could you be a little more hostile please?

[TvShowsHub]

The final will be between Brazil & Nederlands :)

[VFN]

My uneducated guess is that, while Germany should win because of the lack of Silva and Neymar, Brazil being home will pull out a win and Messi will lead Argentina to victory making it an all South American final.

[honeykid]

If Brazil can get past Germany, surely they'll win. Will FIFA let them lose the final?

[VFN]

How bad is di Maria being out for Argentina?

[honeykid]

Normally I'd say bad, but they're playing so poorly and with everything so geared around Messi that I don't know if it's much worse than most other players.

[Camo]

Could you be a little more hostile please?

Yeah i apologize Guap, when i sent that i was in a bad mood for an unrelated to the WC reason. :) . I still stick by my statement though, that i doubt you have watched much of the WC, from your posts it seems like you look at how many passes were completed and how many shots were on target. While most people just watch the games and realize for themselves who was better, you stick around for the stats to tell you who was better.

[Camo]

So player of the tournament so far? I assume David Luiz has went even higher up the FIFA ratings since his goal against Columbia. For the four teams would be for me. Brazil - Luiz (Neymar was but DL is guarenteed at least two more games). Germany - Neuer (the best keeper so far imo). Holland - Robben (The best active player imo, because i'm still stanning for James :D). Argentina - Messi (of course).

[honeykid]

Probably James or Robben. I think Robben is the only star name who's really shined this world cup. Neuer has been immense, though. Actually, maybe the keepers have been the stars at this world cup.

[VFN]

If I were Holland I'd be nervous that Messi is due.

[Camo]

I hope it's a Germany - Holland final. Brazil and Agentina are lucky to have got this far imo. Despite their blip against Mexico, Holland have been the most consistent team so far; they should've beat; CR 2 or 3 nothing imo. Germany haven't looked special since the Portugal game but they have been the most consistent team over the last decade, and throughout international football history to be honest.

[honeykid]

I hope it's a Germany - Holland final.
Me too, but Germany will have to beat Brazil because they aren't going to get anything.

[VFN]

Heard Tommy Smyth on ESPN radio who said Brazil has an uphill battle with Neymar and Silva out and that Messi has to be more assertive--that unlike Argentina, his club team is designed to consistently feed him the ball.

[Fabulous]

Brazil will have it tough without Neymar and Thiago Silva against a tough German side. I like the Germans to advance in a close one. I also think Argentina will advance, but they worry me. They have some great attackers and play makers up front but can't seem to play convincingly as a team.

[honeykid]

Heard Tommy Smyth on ESPN radio who said Brazil has an uphill battle with Neymar and Silva out and that Messi has to be more assertive--that unlike Argentina, his club team is designed to consistently feed him the ball.
This team is too, but unlike the Barca team, these players aren't used to playing that way and they obviously don't like it. Losing a player like Di Maria should be a big blow, but they're so disjointed I don't think it'll have half the impact it should have.

Brazil don't have Neymar or Silva, but they do have the crowd, the ref and FIFA. ;)

Brazil will have it tough without Neymar and Thiago Silva against a tough German side. I like the Germans to advance in a close one. I also think Argentina will advance, but they worry me. They have some great attackers and play makers up front but can't seem to play convincingly as a team.
This. They're England with world class players. :D

[Cobpyth]

WHAT THE HELL.

25 minutes played. 0-4 Germany. :p

[Camo]

Holy **** :eek: . 4-0 to Germany, where has this German team been since the Portugal game? Klose is now the all time top WC goalscorer.

[VFN]

Brazil's defense is a sieve. It's an embarrassment.

[Camo]

They better hope the ref give them at least 6 penalties for nothing :D

[Chardee MacDennis]

Brazil are just unlucky. They drew the toughest team to play in the semi's while Germany got the easiest.

Unlucky Brazil...unlucky.

[honeykid]

I actually feel for them now. It's obvious their heads have gone. Getting beaten is bad enough for Brazil, but this is a humiliation already and there's another 15 minutes till half time. It's up to Germany now. They can make this, almost, whatever they want.

[honeykid]

Brazil are just unlucky. They drew the toughest team to play in the semi's while Germany got the easiest.

Unlucky Brazil...unlucky.

They're not unlucky. They've been lucky to get through in the way they have. This is a poor Brazil team and a good German team, but it's not this bad a Brazil team and it's not this good a German team.

[Cobpyth]

I'm loving this.

[honeykid]

I just hope Holland make it through tomorrow.

[VFN]

No offense is this good; no defense is this bad. After the first goal one wondered how they could let that ball through and 4 goals later it's clear something isn't right.

[Mr Minio]

I don't care about football, but my mother watches the match and I was peeking from time to time. Was laughing out loud at how Brazil is being destroyed. It's so funny lol

[VFN]

If Brazil's team isn't that good to begin with, it may be the case that losing it's two best players was too much for them to handle, that they had no confidence coming into the game and thus broke down as a unit.

[honeykid]

No offense is this good; no defense is this bad. After the first goal one wondered how they could let that ball through and 4 goals later it's clear something isn't right.
Like I said, their heads have gone. Considering the pressure, they did well to keep it together for 11 minutes after the first goal went in. I think they believed they could get a goal back. But two goals against this team? No way. They knew it and they went.

[Chardee MacDennis]

They're not unlucky. They've been lucky to get through in the way they have. This is a poor Brazil team and a good German team, but it's not this bad a Brazil team and it's not this good a German team.

I was taking the piss mate.

Guap was going on about how unlucky Brazil had been because Germany got to play Algeria while Brazil had to play Chile.

[honeykid]

I was taking the piss mate.

Guap was going on about how unlucky Brazil had been because Germany got to play Algeria while Brazil had to play Chile.
I see. Sorry. :o:D

[wintertriangles]

I just got home and saw the score. My god.

[honeykid]

Di Steffano died?!?!?!

[Camo]

Much better by Brazil at the start of the half, but at this point Germany won't really care. One thing that's clear is that Neuer will win the Golden Gloves award . And yes Di Stefano died HK i saw it on the news yesterday.

[honeykid]

Looks like Brazil have started to leave their foot in again. As you said, Camo, Germany don't really mind now. They can ship a couple and win comfortably, plus they have a good defence and, arguably, the best keeper in the world, so that's not too likely either.

If I was Muller I'd be looking to score a hatful now. He's got to close in on Klose.

[honeykid]

R.I.P Stefano Di Stefano. :( Obviously I didn't see him play, but he was legendary and not just at Real Madrid.

[Camo]

R.I.P Stefano Di Stefano. :( Obviously I didn't see him play, but he was legendary and not just at Real Madrid.

No doubt. He's one of the main reasons i think it's impossible to make an all time greatest footballers list, there's just not enough footage of him for me to rank fairly. More than likely i'd overrate him because of his reputation or underrate him because of lack of footage.

Anyway RIP.

Edit: 6-0 :D

[VFN]

This game may bode well for Germany's opponent. A laugher like this isn't great prep for a big match.

[Cobpyth]

I can't describe how much I'm enjoying this.

Yeah, I'm a sadist. :p

[Camo]

7-0. This is the biggest defeat Brazil has ever had and it's in a WC semi :eek: . I wonder if David Luiz is still ranked as the best player so far :p

[Cobpyth]

Never seen before.

[wintertriangles]

Half of Brazil is going to commit suicide, and on their next election ballot, there will be a measure to put 50% increase of taxes into football infrastructure

[mark f]

This may fry Guap's brain more than all that anime. :)

[Camo]

This may fry Guap's brain more than all that anime. :)

It won't because Guap knows that if Neymar and Thiago Silva were playing the scores would be reversed :p. The silence after Oscars goal was haunting there :D

[Cobpyth]

I've never seen a team been so utterly destroyed as Brazil today. Never ever. Incredible.

[Mr Minio]

Guap doesn't care. He's too busy watching anime.

[EmmMimaki]

Last goal wins?:D

[honeykid]

I've never seen a team been so utterly destroyed as Brazil today. Never ever. Incredible.

United 8-2 Arsenal was like that. I was in a daze. I wasn't even sure that Arsenal knew the game was still being played.

[Cobpyth]

United 8-2 Arsenal was like that. I was in a daze. I wasn't even sure that Arsenal knew the game was still being played.

Yeah, OK, but that's club football. This is Brazil getting beaten with 7-1 in their own country in the semi-finals of a World Cup. It doesn't get much more insane than that, in my opinion.

[Camo]

I've never seen a team been so utterly destroyed as Brazil today. Never ever. Incredible.

Spain 9-0 against Tahiti is the most recent i can think of. Also any Faroe Islands or San Marino qualifying games, even Scotland beat FA 6-0 once :p.

I agree though no decent teams nevermind a team of Brazils quality ever lose by this much. I predicted Germany would win from the start but admittedly waned after their average performances since the Portugal game. To be honest though i'd rather Holland win.

[honeykid]

Yeah, OK, but that's club football. This is Brazil getting beaten with 7-1 in their own country in the semi-finals of a World Cup. It doesn't get much more insane than that, in my opinion.
Oh absolutely. I don't know that there's ever been an international like that. Even Spain/Holland in this world cup wasn't what we've just seen.

[Cobpyth]

Spain 9-0 against Tahiti is the most recent i can think of. Also any Faroe Islands or San Marino qualifying games, even Scotland beat FA 6-0 once :p.

I agree though no decent teams nevermind a team of Brazils quality ever lose by this much. I predicted Germany would win from the start but admittedly waned after their average performances since the Portugal game. To be honest though i'd rather Holland win.

Yeah, I've seen higher scores before (Belgium won 10-1 against San Marino once), but the fact that this is Brazil, makes it so f*cked up.

[BlueLion]

I don't think Germany were THAT great, honestly. They scored seven because Brazil were tactically inept, not because of a masterclass from Joachim Low. That has to be one of the weakest performances I've ever seen, from any team. Truly embarrassing from Brazil.

[mark f]

I think we pretty much agree; at least I do. Brazil had their heads up their bums, for whatever obvious or not reasons.

[honeykid]

I don't think Germany were THAT great, honestly. They scored seven because Brazil were tactically inept, not because of a masterclass from Joachim Low. That has to be one of the weakest performances I've ever seen, from any team. Truly embarrassing from Brazil.
I don't think anyone's disputing that.

I was talking to someone today and I said then that, in the years where there isn't an overwhelming or great team, Germany are usually your best bet because even a bad Germany team can make the semi's. And this isn't a bad German team. When you're as defensively all at sea as Brazil were tonight, a team like Germany is like a shark in chum. Germany could've scored, almost, at will tonight.

[VFN]

It's too bad tie games have to be decided by PKs but I think Argentina played better overall and deserved the win. Gotta' think Germany will win the final. Argentina's offense didn't look that great and you have to figure Germany will get that goal they need as they have throughout the tournament.

[Chardee MacDennis]

Eat a d**k Holland. Scummiest bunch of players with the biggest w**ker as their manager.

Apologies to all the Dutch MoFo's.

[Daniel M]

Agree, good riddance Holland and their negative football

[honeykid]

Great, now he can concentrate on United. ;) If he can bring Robben with him, I'll be ecstatic. :D

Hoping for a Germany win. if Argentina play like they have throughout the tournament, they shouldn't have too much trouble beating them. Of course, it won't be like that, but I hope it is.

This game went, pretty much, as I was expecting. Tight game, might've nicked a goal here or there but penalties seemed the safest bet from the start. Shame holland went out, as they were the team I wanted to win the most out of the semi finalists. Still no world cup for them. :(

[Loner]

It's too bad tie games have to be decided by PKs but I think Argentina played better overall and deserved the win. Gotta' think Germany will win the final. Argentina's offense didn't look that great and you have to figure Germany will get that goal they need as they have throughout the tournament.

There is a better way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4SVih8Rn5Y

[Tacitus]

This has been a World Cup with some great matches but no stand-out team. Germany upped their game in the semi but were helped by one of the daftest, most suicidal displays of captaincy I've ever seen.

Luiz seems a nice enough bloke but has there ever been a more brainless regular international (for a decent side)? Not since Carlton Palmer probably but at least Taylor never saw fit to make him captain.

On the most important night for his side .... ever?

Ally Captain Walkabout (£40mil? Jesus wept) to a very pedestrian team and that thumping was on the cards from the moment I saw the national anthems - Brazil were an emotional mess and Germany had the bit fully between their teeth for the first time in the finals.

I expect Germany to win the final but before the tournament I picked Argentina and wouldn't be surprised at another tense 0-0 with Messi & co sneaking through on pens. They've done just enough each match to see them home but an Argentina victory won't live long in the memory.

[Guaporense]

If we were going to lose at least lose with a bang! :D 1-7 take that Spain with your meager 1-5! :D

The Brazilian TV will milk this incident for months now. Even interviewing the tragedy of families who watched the game at the stadium and brought their kids to the game. As a father said: "I saw Brazil lose in 1982 and now my kids know what I felt at the time." :rolleyes: This event will enter history more than if we actually won the cup.

I already had a bad feeling as many had before the game. This team of kids, who weren't psychologically prepared to endure losing games and with the obligation to win the cup, who lost their best player and their captain (whose negative impact was mostly psychological rather than technical) had the obligation to win. So after 10 minutes of decent game, suffering a single goal at the beginning they started to lose it and after the second it would have been the same as if they just walked out of the field, a full psychological breakdown of the team: for like 10 minutes they didn't even try to play. Afterwards, turning 0-5 was a clear impossibility in 60 minutes against one of the best organized defenses of the cup with a completely broken team.

The bad luck that we had in getting games against Chile and Colombia (2 of the top 6 best national teams in the cup) went into full throttle against Germany: almost every chance they had was converted into a goal. They scored 1 goal in the 180 minutes of normal time before that match shooting 28 balls at the goals of Algeria and France, while shooting 13 and converting it into 7 goals in those 90 minutes.

Well, at least I got right that Argentina would go to the final, too bad we didn't. It would be an epic and difficult (historically Argentina's performance against Brazil is the best among national teams: winning 36 matches and losing only 35 against Brazil, while historically Germany was easy for us: losing 12 matches and winning only 4) well, anything could happen but nobody was predicting 1-7.

At least it was a rich emotional experience: I hadn't so much fun watching a game since 2007.

[Mr Minio]

So you haven't been watching anime instead of the match after all. :D

[Guaporense]

I expect Germany to win the final but before the tournament I picked Argentina and wouldn't be surprised at another tense 0-0 with Messi & co sneaking through on pens. They've done just enough each match to see them home but an Argentina victory won't live long in the memory.

If I would bet money it would be on Germany in the final, but before I was betting money on Brazil and Holland. I predicted by the round of 16 that the semi-finals would have these 4 teams (they were the most traditional teams in the tournament) though I guess anything could have happened afterwards.

I guess Argentina could win if they play their ugly game like against Holland and Messi does his magic at the 118 minutes like against Switzerland. In the penalties I think Neuer would provide the advantage.

[Guaporense]

So you haven't been watching anime instead of the match after all. :D

Since the cup started I had watched 40 matches and only 12 anime titles!

This match was historical on many levels: the first defeat of Brazil in Brazil since 1975, the worst single defeat in the Brazilian national team history, the first defeat of Brazil in the semi-finals of a world cup since 1938. The world defeat in a world cup since 2002, and the defeated team is the most important national football team in the world.

[BlueLion]

At least it was a rich emotional experience: I hadn't so much fun watching a game since 2007.

What game was that?

[Mr Minio]

Not sure if Brazil vs. Germany was a match or a footage from the training of German team.

[VFN]

Not sure if Brazil vs. Germany was a match or a footage from the training of German team.

Exactly. Watching Germany score against Brazil in the first half was like watching offense drills.

[VFN]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsKh6hzIcAAI8dv.jpg

[honeykid]

This event will enter history more than if we actually won the cup.
Absolutely. Scolari will be the guy who lost 7-1 and not the guy who won the world cup in 2002.

They scored 1 goal in the 180 minutes of normal time before that match shooting 28 balls at the goals of Algeria and France, while shooting 13 and converting it into 7 goals in those 90 minutes.
True, but that's because those teams did than darn pesky defending thing and limited them to half chances and shots from range. Two or three of those goals looked like the kind of goal Arsenal always try to score. Hell, England could've scored against that Brazil. Notice I said "scored" and not beaten. Let's not run before we can walk. :D

So, the third place playoff game. The most pointless game in football. Usually you only watch this game, if you do, because there's nothing else and the world cup has almost finished and you want every last bit you can get. However, this time, I have an interest. Obvioulsy it's not the result, nor am I that bothered about the football, though it'd be nice to see a good game. It's the Brazil team. After THAT result you have to play in a meaningless and, frankly for Brazil, embarrassing game. However, everyone will be watching to see how you react to the tonking the Germans gave them. Intersting stuff indeed.

[VFN]

I expect Brazil to play hard and well. I see the Germany debacle as a singular fluke and Brazil will be playing for respect and some degree of redemption. Especially with Silva back I don't see another whacking.

[honeykid]

I don't think there'll be a whacking like that either. Frankly I thnk the Dutch would be far too embarrassed to hand it out. Let's face it, the German's took their foot off the gas in the second half and only scored 2 (should've been three). If the game had still be alive, they'd have gone at Brazil with purpose.

I'm just interested in the state of mind of the Brazilian players and which players play. I wonder if Scolari will let those who haven't played play? I wonder how many that did play will have an 'injury'? I wonder if any will flatly refuse and, if someone does, whether we'll hear about it? Maybe, with the exception of Silva, he'll send the same team out and see if they've got it in them.

I think the Dutch players could blindly stick a pin in the globe and would, truly, rather be wherever it hits than playing in this game.

[BlueLion]

https://fireden.net/4chan/images.4chan.org//vg/src/1393427958074.png

[Camo]

FIFA's shortlist for the Golden Ball this year:

Argentina - Angel Di Maria, Javier Mascherano and Lionel Messi. Germany - Mats Hummels, Toni Kroos, Phillip Lahm and Thomas Muller. Columbia - James. Brazil - Neymar. Holland - Robben.

Toni Kroos for me so far, i'd love if James got the Bronze Ball but i know he wont. Surely Neuer will win the Golden Glove, and the Golden Shoe will be most likely James or Muller. Does anyone have any idea who'll win the young player award? Noone comes to mind for me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28274011

[honeykid]

Depends on who and what they call young. Rodriguez could win it as he's only 23.

No one likes him, but I'd be tempted to go with Robben. But Kroos, Lahm, Muller and Mascherano would all be worthy winners, IMO. Unless Argentina win and Messi has a stormer I think he has had an average world cup at best. Neymar has shone much brighter, IMO.

[Camo]

HK it's 21 or under. James would've been my pick too as he was my favourite player of the WC. I honestly can't think of anyone 21 or under who has featured prominently enough to win it.

[Camo]

Someone on another site just suggested Paul Pogba, i think that's a very good shout. I honestly had no idea he was 21.

[honeykid]

Me neither. The only person who comes to mind of around that age is Yedlin, USA right back. Thought he had a great tournament.

Quintero of Columbia. He came on as a substite against Ivory Coast and scored.

[honeykid]

Someone on another site just suggested Paul Pogba, i think that's a very good shout. I honestly had no idea he was 21.
Pogba sounds like the kind of player who'll win it, but I really would go with Yedlin, I think.

[Camo]

Me neither. The only person who comes to mind of around that age is Yedlin, USA right back. Thought he had a great tournament.

Quintero of Columbia. He came on as a substite against Ivory Coast and scored.

Good suggestion with Yedlin. Jesus that guys the same age as me as well as Pogba. I think i need to lay off the Crack :p

[honeykid]

lol... Just remember, they're the freaks. Not you. :)

[Daniel M]

Who's going to win tonight then? Germany are favourites and most people's choice but I am hoping for an Argentina win. I have always loved Messi and want to see him lift the World Cup, because I doubt I'll ever see a better player in my life, people can stop saying 'he has to win the World Cup to prove himself', finally.

I don't think Argentina have been as bad as some people have made out, yes they've not been that convincing but mainly because teams they've come up against have parked the bus to stop Messi and co., like Holland did who never looked like scoring themselves. I think Mascherano has been there best player of the tournament, one of my favourite players I have ever watched too. He's completed the most passes in the tournament, just ahead of Toni Kroos, so that'll be a great battle.

I think for player of the tournament it depends on who wins, will probably go to either Muller or Messi, but I'd love it if it went to either Kroos or Mascherano. Golden glove will go to Neuer, who is the best goalkeeper in the world, but great to see Keylor Navas nominated who has been one of Europe's best keepers this season for Levante and was immense for Costa Rica.

[honeykid]

Who's going to win tonight then? Germany are favourites and most people's choice but I am hoping for an Argentina win. I have always loved Messi and want to see him lift the World Cup, because I doubt I'll ever see a better player in my life, people can stop saying 'he has to win the World Cup to prove himself', finally.

You already have, he's called Ronaldo. :p

I really hope it's Germany. I think they're the best team and they've looked the best team throughout the tournament. Not brilliant, not perfect by any means, but streets ahead of the rest.

I don't think Argentina have been as bad as some people have made out, yes they've not been that convincing but mainly because teams they've come up against have parked the bus to stop Messi and co., like Holland did who never looked like scoring themselves. I think Mascherano has been there best player of the tournament, one of my favourite players I have ever watched too. He's completed the most passes in the tournament, just ahead of Toni Kroos, so that'll be a great battle.
I think that's true to an extent. People have man marked Messi and, as everything has to go through him, that's shut down the rest of the team and put more pressure on Messi. Holland just didn't play. Very strange I thought, but they overachieved getting there, so maybe they were just happy to try and get it to penalties and take their chances?

I think Mascherano has been great too, but number of passes doesn't really mean anything. It's a stat that's become important, like many of the other stats in the last 10/15 years, but there's only one stat that matters and they usually put it in the top left hand corner.

I think for player of the tournament it depends on who wins, will probably go to either Muller or Mess.
I think is the case, too.

[BlueLion]

I've been against Argentina in their previous three games, but I would love it, absolutely love it, if they beat zee Germans tonight. Can't stand all this German w*nkfest.

I'd be happy for Schurrle if he scores though.

[honeykid]

Will whoever wins tonight keep the trophy? I'm guessing not, as it's not been something FIFA has mentioned.

[christine]

My heart wants Germany to win but my head wants Argentina as I've got £30 riding on it

[The Sci-Fi Slob]

Germany will hammer them.

[Camo]

Hoping for a Germany win tonight. No German wankfest here, i just think they deserve it more. Also there's more German players that i want to have a WC win, like Neuer,Lahm,Kroos,Muller,etc.

[Camo]

Will whoever wins tonight keep the trophy? I'm guessing not, as it's not been something FIFA has mentioned.

Why would they keep it? Because it's the 20th WC or some other reason? If you're right i wonder if they'll redesign like they did after the 1970 WC.

[Daniel M]

You already have, he's called Ronaldo. :p

Typical Man United fan :p

Anyway, here we go!

[Daniel M]

And Germany have not been that convincing bar the Brazil game. Algeria took them to extra time and they were dodgy against Ghana and USA. Also Khedira is a huge miss, was immense with Kroos against Brazil.

[Camo]

And Germany have not been that convincing bar the Brazil game. Algeria took them to extra time and they were dodgy against Ghana and USA. Also Khedira is a huge miss, was immense with Kroos against Brazil.

Germany were good against Portugal too. Argentina haven't been convincing in any game yet, i still can't believe they're in the final tbh.

[Cobpyth]

For the first time in my life, I actually want the Germans to win a major tournament. They simply deserve it the most. If Argentina does a spectacular job in this final, I won't be whining, though.

[mark f]

Oh well. Crap kick.

[honeykid]

Why would they keep it? Because it's the 20th WC or some other reason? If you're right i wonder if they'll redesign like they did after the 1970 WC.
They gave Brazil the trophy after they won it for the third time. Whoever wins tonight, it will be the third time they've won this trophy (Germany have another, but it's the previous trophy, the Jules Rimet trophy)
Typical Man United fan :p
What, being right? That's very generous of you. :p

That's not the first time I've heard that, mark. :D

[BlueLion]

Great first half from Argentina. They have contained Germany pretty well so far and their tactics have been spot-on. Zee Germans quite predictable as usual. I will laugh so hard if they fail to win it after all that praise that they got thanks to David Luiz and co.

[Camo]

What a goal. Hopefully that's it, because Germany really deserve this.

[Daniel M]

Frustrating that Argentina didn't take their chances, Germany had a lot of the ball but didn't really do anything with it, mainly thanks to Mascherano, but they really should have took a chance, either Higuain and Messi. Great technique for the goal though, deserving winner.

[Cobpyth]

Very deserved win from Germany and WHAT A GOAL!!!

[christine]

oh well didn't win the family sweepstake but made a profit of £6.50. Family - see you in the Euros 2016 !

[VFN]

Better team won though Argentina had a few chances to win it themselves. Germany really has short pass precision; technicians the announcer here called them. Glad PKs weren't the deciding factor.

[Camo]

Messi wins player of the tournament, with Muller 2nd and Robben 3rd. Neuer wins the Golden Glove and Pogba wins the young player award.

Can't agree with Messi winning. At least Lahm,Kroos,Muller and Robben were more deserving imo.

[BlueLion]

Meh.

[Tacitus]

An unsurprisingly cagey final that thankfully wasn't decided by penalties.

Oh, and bye bye Alan Hanson. He must owe BT a fortune considering he's been phoning it in for the last decade...

[jaggernout]

Bravo Germany, but Messi for player of the tournament, really?

[BlueLion]

Lol yeah that was pretty funny.

[VFN]

I see a future lawsuit regarding football concussions. Today was a perfect example where a German player should've been looked at properly after a head injury but wasn't and later had to leave the game.

[donniedarko]

Why didn't Suarez get player of the tournament?

[VFN]

Why didn't Suarez get player of the tournament?

Because he bites. :D

[Powdered Water]

I see a future lawsuit regarding football concussions. Today was a perfect example where a German player should've been looked at properly after a head injury but wasn't and later had to leave the game.


Completely agree. American Football is going through tons of lawsuits and Soccer will too. And why is it they can't just have a time out from time to time? Does someone always have to fall writhing in pain (pretend or not) just to get their team a little breather? Let's get this sport into the new millennium. The referee's need some real help out there too. If this is the best sport the world has to offer then why doesn't it institute instant replay for some of the absolutely horribly officiated games? If this is really just the way the game always will be then... I think I'm missing something.

[VFN]

And why is it they can't just have a time out from time to time? Does someone always have to fall writhing in pain (pretend or not) just to get their team a little breather? Let's get this sport into the new millennium. The referee's need some real help out there too. If this is the best sport the world has to offer then why doesn't it institute instant replay for some of the absolutely horribly officiated games?

The falling down is called flopping and it's used to get the ref to call a foul. Basketball players do it now too and it doesn't belong in the game. Using replay in-game for flopping would destroy the flow of both sports but the NBA does review such incidents post-game and hands down fines. I'm not sure how successful that program has been.

[honeykid]

Why didn't Suarez get player of the tournament?

He shoud've. It would've made more sense than Messi getting it. Didn't win, didn't score the most goals, didn't have a great game throughout the tournament, wasn't the most exciting player... Won the Golden Ball? This is a FIFA thing which I don't care about, but the cynic in my can't help but notice. Golden Boot is the only minor award that matters to me and that's only because I'm of an age where it was a thing. No one presented Just Fontaine with an award for scoring 13 goals in 58.

As for the diving (flopping for our American cousins) I'm afraid it's just part of the game now. It used to be something which players did to get penalties or free kicks in good positions, but now it's all over the pitch and, sometimes, I'm all for it, because sometimes it's the only way to get a ref to give a foul. Especially when it comes to shirt pulling or holding. Of course, as you'll have seen in the world cup, it's also used as a tactic to disrupt play and the flow of the game.

The thing that really annoys me now, and it'll only get worse, is the constant appealling and barracking of the ref over every decision. The reason, of course, isn't necessarily to get the call your way, it's to apply pressure on the next call. And the one after that. If you've had three go against you and you complain, maybe the ref will think about giving the next one, maybe he won't. However, if you've already made him aware, each time, that that's now the third he's given against you, it plays on the mind and you're more likely to get the next one or have him not call one against you. It's simple psychology. The refs are human, constant barracking by players (while thousands of people area baying at you, plus millions on tv, plus the absolute slaughtering you'll get in the press if you're wrong and the knowledge that you're under scrutiny by the referees official in the stand marking how you do) means you're more likely to cave to pressure. So they add more pressure.

It'd all stop if the players stopped it and most of it would stop if the managers told them not to do it and fined those who did. Of course, a manager can be out of a job if he loses a few games, so he's unlikely to ask them to stop. Quite the opposite in some cases, I'm sure. The defence, of course, is that it's up to the ref to stop it and he should start showing cards. This is true, but if he doesnt' feel he has the backing of the refs, it won't even begin to happen.

I agree with you about the head injuries/concussions. I think I've seen more in the last 2 years than I can remember in the decade before. Maybe we're just more aware of it now, but the players shouldn't be allowed back on the pitch. I swear Zabaleta did Kramer last night, but Zabalets, Pereira and Mascherano have all taken injuries that should've had them substituted in this world cup. With the squads now and the number of subs on the bench for a game, it'd be easy enough to bring someone else on in their place, if only until a doctor has checked them out and given them the all clear back in the dressing room. I'd have them out of the game, but at least it'd be a start.

Lastly, no breaks. Breaks kill the game. Football is restrained chaos, but barely organised. The more breaks, the more organised it becomes.

Congratulations to Germany. The best team of the tournament won the tournament. :)

I'm not a betting man, but James Rodriguez was 100-1 to win the Golden Boot? I can't say I thought he would, but I'd have had him up there just behind the likes of Messi, Muller and Neymar. I can't believe the odds were so long. Well done to anyone who got on that. :up:

[Powdered Water]

I like a lot of your post HK. What do you think about adding a ref? A second ref would really help detour all the whining and stuff that drives you nuts. Because then the guy isn't alone anymore. One guy is simply not enough in my opinion. Do you have any idea how many ref's are at an American game? And they still don't get it right all the time. The way people are today, if we're waiting for the players to fix the sport then we'll be waiting long time I reckon. Now I don't follow this game. Do the rules ever get changed or tweaked? Because I think this sport could use it.

Why be against breaks? The players take hella breaks already. I see lots of guys standing around out there. How about just breaking the game into three periods? Then the actual on the field running around game time is shorter. You could still have plenty of chaos and your players will have a little more energy.

[VFN]

I enjoyed reading HK's post as well and it's true that diving/flopping did originate by forwards who believed they were being fouled without it being called. At this point though it's become a tactic on it's own and IMHO can be easily dealt with if the leagues choose to do so. Fitness is also a part of football so I don't see any time changes happening. Remember too that with some exception to midfielders not every player is moving all the time so they do get chances to rest somewhat.

[honeykid]

PW, I'll come back and give my thoughts later. :)

[honeykid]

I like a lot of your post HK. What do you think about adding a ref? A second ref would really help detour all the whining and stuff that drives you nuts. Because then the guy isn't alone anymore. One guy is simply not enough in my opinion.
There is another ref. He's known as "The Fourth Officiial" and, to this day, no one will be able to tell you what he does or what purpose he serves. Seriously.

I think football may well be coming into a new era. Up until recently, FIFA's thing has been that the game you see in the World Cup final is the same game you can play on your local pitches. The same as kids play at school. It's a ball, a couple of goals, and three officials. The more you add, the further it gets from that ideal. However, with the fourth official (in the Champion's League and Europa League there's also an official beside each goal. But tha's a UEFA thing I don't don't want to scramble your brain at this point) and, more importantly, goal line technology, it's already well on the way. I think there's a realisation that the old ideal isn't going to help football continue. Frankly, there's too much money to lose.

The other obstacle to it is, in many cases, the fans don't want to see it. They don't want video technology, they don't want extra refs, they don't want breaks or a different division of the time of a game.

Do you have any idea how many ref's are at an American game? And they still don't get it right all the time.
It's seven, isn't it?

*EDIT* A point I meant to make here was that, in American football, it's all controlled bursts of action and you can place the officials with some certainty that, a) they'll be able to see what they're supposed to be looking at and, b) that they won't get in the way. Neither of these things, especially the second, are really possible to do in football. The fluid chaotic nature of the game and it's movements mean you can always be in the wrong place and, with more people on the pitch, it's more likely to happen and more often.

I think this is where we are atm with this. There's those who think this is just a necessary evil in order to get it right as often as possible. Then there's those who are willing to accept that people get it wrong and that they're doing their best. Also, that arguing about these things and having them go for you sometimes and against you at others, is part of what it's about.

The way people are today, if we're waiting for the players to fix the sport then we'll be waiting long time I reckon.
I don't think anyone is. I was just saying that it could stop easily if the players decided not to do it.

Now I don't follow this game. Do the rules ever get changed or tweaked? Because I think this sport could use it.
Yes, things get changed and tweaked. The sprays you saw for the freekicks were new to everyone but the S.Americans, who'd been doing for a season or two already, but that was as a trial for the world cup I believe, and goal line technology is new, too. That started last season in the Premier League in England. 25 years ago they stopped the goalkeeper being able to pick up the ball from a pass (with the foot and intended) from his teammate. This was the speed the game up and stop teams from being able to run a game out more easily. Around the same time the tackle from behind was made illegal. This is to stop the more talented players being mown down by defenders.

I don't know if it was on the way anyway, but the end of van Basten's career at 28 caused great sadness and it was the constant tackles of this nature which curtailled one of the best players to play the game. I'd watch the whole thing because his skill was wonderful, but if you go to 5:41 in this vid you'll see the kind of tackle I mean. That'd almost certainly be a straight red card these days. Then, just a foul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdnAfGcKvXs

Why be against breaks? The players take hella breaks already. I see lots of guys standing around out there. How about just breaking the game into three periods? Then the actual on the field running around game time is shorter. You could still have plenty of chaos and your players will have a little more energy.
I don't want shorter game time. If anything, I'd be tempted to stop the clock as they do in american football every time the ball went out of play. Of course, this would probably mean that the game time would have to be shortened, so why bother.? :D

The best way I can think of to explain it would be to look at a Jackson Pollock and say, "why not give it some form? You could still have drips and stuff and it wouldn't have to look like anything, but just shape it a little." For some, that'd seem a perfectly reasonable request. But it wouldn't be a Pollock.

[VFN]

American football needs more than one ref because fouls can be committed by players away from the ball which basically doesn't happen on the pitch. Not sure how you can really prevent flopping without some use of replay as it can be very hard to tell at times.

[Powdered Water]

Another great post HK and I totally understand the reference to being able to play the game anywhere. Here in America, Baseball has undergone a transition from the classic, traditional game to all sorts of tweaks and changes that many hardcore purity lovers said would never happen. But they do and they will probably continue because as you mentioned, there is simply too much money out there.

And to be honest, I have no idea how many ref's there are at a American game. If you count all the guys on the sidelines and the guys in the booths, there maybe as many as 20. ;)

[honeykid]

So are you going to watch any football this season, PW? Do you have a club side to follow in the MLS or are you going to follow a European team/league?

[Powdered Water]

Yeah, we've got the Sounders FC, where Yedlin and Dempsey both play for here in Seattle. To be honest I was much bigger fan when I was younger. But as I grew up I just started having a hard time with a lot of the stuff that is just a part of the game and after a while I moved on to American Football, Baseball and quite a bit of Basketball too, before the Sonics were ripped away from us. I'll keep watching the World cup though. I'm a bigger fan of the world teams than local I guess.

[honeykid]

What about the European leagues? Or is that included in local?

[the samoan lawyer]

Yeah, we've got the Sounders FC, where Yedlin and Dempsey both play for here in Seattle. To be honest I was much bigger fan when I was younger. But as I grew up I just started having a hard time with a lot of the stuff that is just a part of the game and after a while I moved on to American Football, Baseball and quite a bit of Basketball too, before the Sonics were ripped away from us. I'll keep watching the World cup though. I'm a bigger fan of the world teams than local I guess.

Do you live in Seattle PW? I have relatives over there and have been over a few times and love it. Been to see the Sounders and The Mariners a few times.

[Powdered Water]

What about the European leagues? Or is that included in local?

That's probably what I should try eh? If I could find like a local feed of a decent team over there and watch it for a bit, maybe even a season or two. I bet i'd love the game a lot more. America can just rip the soul right out of the kind of ideas you're talking about in your game. I bet a Sounders game here is nothing like it is over there. If I were to check out some European leagues or whatnot, I bet you could give me some pointers eh? Who's your team?

Do you live in Seattle PW? I have relatives over there and have been over a few times and love it. Been to see the Sounders and The Mariners a few times.

Yes indeed, been here my entire meager existence.

[honeykid]

I'm a United fan (Manchester United) which is enough to get you instantly hated by most. :D There's even an extreme type of fan called an ABU (Anyone But United). We're at an interesting point in our history, atm.

However, I'd recommend looking at the EPL (English Premier League). the Bundesliga (The German League), La Liga (Spanish League) or Serie A (Italian League). I'm not sure how easy it is to see some games from any of these leagues. I think Fox is now showing EPL games live, so that shouldn't be a problem at all. They play the same game, but there's definite styles and ways of doing it.

[brightlikeme]

Stop the thread now its over

[Powdered Water]

^^ I like this guys style! ^^ :yup:

Anywho, Man U seems like as good as team to follow as any. Who's your favorite player? I just bookmarked their website and will try to follow them if I can. I know they are on tv here a fair amount. As a matter of fact they were just here this weekend in Michigan. Was that what you guys call a 'friendly'? Or did that game actually count for something? I liked the highlights I saw, the passing was impressive. They moved the ball much better than several of the world teams that one could really tell just by watching that they didn't really play together all that much before the world cup.

Maybe we should start another thread before brightlikeme mails us some anthrax or something. Clearly his team must not have fared well during the cup, eh?