WTF!!!!1 You're stupid and I'm right!!! (Philosphy thread)

[OG-]

Well eariler I mentioned a governing life force throughout the universe....how to explain....random thoughts....they all connect in my mind....some of them just aren't explained too well

I believe it is collective, it has always been and will always be. You can neither create nor destroy energy or matter. Some believe when you die you go to heaven, I believe you are recycled into life. You aren't reborn, but your life energy or spark or soul or whatever you want to call it is put back on earth. The spark is like the car battery, it can go into any car to make it run; it can go into anything on earth.

I believe in fate, but I don't believe in a divine plan. I believe everything happens for a reason, but not in the sense that other people do. Often when someone dies someone will say "why would God let he/she die?" and the response is always something like "it is just a part of God's plan". That isn't really how I see it....I see it more as that person died so that they would have an effect on the living....I believe everything is a learning experience. I don't call it a divine plan because I don't believe in divinity. It stems more from my idea that everything has a cause and an effect.

I don't say I believe in God because God is singular. I believe in an omnipresent force in the universe that governs every cause and every affect. I just call it the law of the universe, like the laws of physics. The laws of physics are a part of the laws of the universe.

I do however believe in ghosts. and I do believe in aliens. I have the philosphy of a stoner but I don't do drugs. It makes sense in my head and is alot more complicated than what I just said, but is still no more correct than anyone elses belief.

I rock.:p

[Yoda]

I really want to repond to this right now, but I don't have the time to pick it apart (I'm evil...I know that). I shall return later for dissection. :yup:

[Sir Toose]

I jack off, therefore I am.



I get it bro.



:D


I'm kidding.

I like your cause/effect ideas.... and the recycle idea.

I've seen what I believe to be a ghost and I wasn't on drugs.

[The Silver Bullet]

Wow.

Mind telling us about it?
I find that sort of thing to be freakishingly interesting...

[Sir Toose]

BTW:

Here's what I believe:

I believe that while walking on this rock no one will ever really know the answers to the aforementioned questions. I see the universe existing like the quantum models depict relativity and space.

I believe that every particle serves a purpose and that the destruction (or dis-assembly) of one effects another... I do believe that living things are interconnected at one or many levels on the quantum model... this accounts for similarities across the spectrum of the living.

I believe that a superior power exists but in what form I cannot fathom. I do not believe that 'god' is watching my every move and judging me on my actions. I have a creator, I am vastly different than an ape yet I am connected on the quantum level with all apes.

I cannot endorse your idea (OG) that what is valid science here on earth is also valid science elsewhere... I have incomplete data on that and the leap is a far one without the facts.

Other than that, you do indeed rock.

[Sir Toose]

Originally posted by The Silver Bullet
Wow.

Mind telling us about it?
I find that sort of thing to be freakishingly interesting...

Me or Peter?

[OG-]

I think he was talking about Toose's ghost encounter.

I agree that everything is interrelated on some sort of spectrum. I half believe the world is a hologram.

If you are to take a hologram and cut it in half and project light through the remaining half and you can see the entire thing again. The world constantly is reflecting itself. If you have any part, you can see the rest.

The world of the ant is just like the world of the dog which is just like the world of the whale which is just like the world of the pig which is just like the world of man, just all on different scales. You can see the world in everything, just like a hologram.

[OG-]

Haha, I love your avtar Toose, I'm constantly confusing it with Chris, heh. :)

[Sir Toose]

:D

My lightsabre has juice though... his needs viagra

[Piddzilla]

O.G. I have to say that some of what you described in your first post here is so similar to my perception of the universe it's almost scary. We think alike in many ways...

By the way, is your name Peter?

[OG-]

Fo sheezy my nizzy, Peter up in da hizouse.

[Sexy Celebrity]

I understand what Peter is saying.... it's interesting to hear someone say that they don't believe in divinity, but they do believe in ghosts. Freaky theory.

I, however, believe in divinity. I believe in heaven (the other side), two deitys, or forces -- masculine and feminine, spirits, spirit guides, a dark/negative force, everything happens for a reason, reincarnation, and perfecting the soul. I didn't come to this conclusion because I heard all about it and just decided to believe. I'm very skeptical. For awhile, I didn't believe in anything. But I turned completely around. This year, I made it my resolution to become more spiritual. I haven't broken it. I just keep learning more.

Anyway, those are my beliefs. I wouldn't call it philosophy, though.

[Sexy Celebrity]

I just thought of a burning question.... if, in Peter's theory, energy cannot be created or destroyed, thus there can be ghosts, why hasn't there been any reported sightings of dinosaur ghosts? Too far gone to be around? The energy changed into something entirely different? Or, dinosaurs have no purpose to appear on earth in spirit form/are not stuck on earth like ghosts?

[OG-]

The Dino ghosts have moved on :) Dinos were hip, they were done with this world when they wanted to be, ain't no one holding dem down!

sidenote....jason. Is that you in the pic or is that Ewan Mcgregor, because of what I remember of you there is a pretty striking resemblance....especially from that angle.

[Sexy Celebrity]

It's Ewan. The larger picture of my avatar can be seen in the "Who Would Play You?" thread.

[The Silver Bullet]

Me or Peter?

Your ghost experience, Toosical.

[Piddzilla]

Originally posted by OG-
Fo sheezy my nizzy, Peter up in da hizouse.

Cool. My name is Peter too...

[Yoda]

You aren't reborn, but your life energy or spark or soul or whatever you want to call it is put back on earth. The spark is like the car battery, it can go into any car to make it run; it can go into anything on earth.
How is your rebirth determined? IE: what decides where you go, and based on what critera?

Are you sentient in all forms? Can you be a sentient rock? If not, what happens while you are the rock? If you are a rock, it's quite likely you'll just sit somewhere for a very long time (perhaps buried underground for at LEAST thousands of years); do you stay in that position without rebirth, seeing as how you aren't really going to be "killed"? Or when you say "anything on Earth," do you mean "anything living"?

If you are the same energy, do you remember past "lives"? Or is your memory wiped clean? Or do you only remember things from past lives if you inhabited a sentient body last time? What about plants; are they included? And if inanimate objects like rocks and dirt are not included, what sparks them? Or do they not need a spark, since they have no life?

If so, some of the same questions would still, naturally, apply.


I see it more as that person died so that they would have an effect on the living
By saying this, you're implicating an intelligent force or some sort that wants things like that to happen. To say that someone died for a reason (discounting the "he died because he was shot" kind of technical reason) is to automatically assume a God of some sort. It necessitates an INTELLIGENT Higher Power.

You can't have a reason without reason.

Now, a question for everyone (I'm particularly interested in what Toose and Fire have to say on this one):

Did we invent Mathematics? Or did we discover it?"

[LordSlaytan]

Invention means that the laws of nature are nothing but an outgrowth of human activities; other thinking beings at other places or times may invent completely different systems fitting for their peculiar needs. At the best, we may come up with some approximation to something intrinsically intangible, because there are no absolute truths. This statement, of course, must be an absolute truth, which opens a different can of worms labeled Godels theory.

Discovery means that the laws of nature exist in a defined form, totally independent of humans or anybody else below the level of an almighty being, and that there is a possibility to discover them in total (if there is a finite number of natural laws) or at least in parts and to describe them in some language (including the language of mathematics). Maybe we find only parts, or we see the laws coarse-grained (i.e. in some approximations), but it is out there to be discovered.

I believe that our ancestors discovered mathematics due to particular needs that warranted defining. One case in point:

A 35,000 year old, fossilized baboon bone found in Zaire, the Ishango Bone, is covered with a series of notches or tally marks, which makes it the oldest mathematical object in the world, and the world's earliest number system. The bone is also a lunar phase counter, which suggest that African women were the first mathematicians, since keeping track of menstrual cycles requires a lunar calendar.

As needs are met throughout the history of mankind, curiosity takes over. Mathematics and Language become the end all of the modern thinkers of the day. As new concepts are discovered, so are new needs. When certain civilizations discover a new, bold way of keeping track of seasonal shifts, then a way to make more out of their harvesting becomes clearer, and the drive to make an even more accurate calendar arises. Another case in point:

Mathematics in Africa started much earlier from the first written numerals of ancient Egypt around 3100 BC. Ancient African calendars made use of numbers and calculation at an early stage. Ancient Africans also discovered and use the concept of zero, and wrote several texts on math and other subjects.

Where did zero come from--and what, exactly, does it mean? The Nothing That Is begins as a mystery story, tracing back to ancient times the way this symbol for nothing developed, constantly changing shape, even going underground at times. (The ancient Greeks, mathematically brilliant as they were, didn't have zero--or did they?) The trail leads from Babylon through Athens, to India, then to Europe in the Middle Ages. Brought to the West by Arab traders, zero was called "dangerous Saracen magic" at first, but quickly made itself indispensable. With the invention (discovery?) of calculus in the seventeenth century, zero became a linchpin of the Scientific Revolution. And in our own time, even deeper layers of this thing that is nothing are coming to light: our computers speak only in zeros and ones, and modern mathematics and physics have shown that "nothing" can be the source of everything.

Was zero invented? I think not. As we progress in our own evolutionary way, and our minds are capable of grasping newer and fresher concepts, the more readily we will be able to find the ways to discovery.

[OG-]

Originally posted by Yoda
[B]
How is your rebirth determined? IE: what decides where you go, and based on what critera?


It isn't determined and it isn't really a rebirth.

I forget the name of the device, but its those things with the balls, you pull one back and let it go, it hits the others causing the one on the end to move. It is like that. It just transfers to the other. No one decides a thing, it just happens.

No your energy does not transfer to a rock since a rock has 0 animate parts.

They don't need a spark, unless you're counting the big bang as a spark.

No it doesn't require a god of any sort. It is simply just cause and effect. The rain fell because of gravity, the person didn't go outside because the rain fell because of gravity, because the person didn't go outside because it was raining because of gravity the person did not get hit by the car. I don't see why it needs a god and to place one there is redundant in my eyes. Not all reason has intelligence behind it....

Math was discovered, but the language of mathematics was invented.