MOFO Movie Tournament 2012 Bracket 3

[rauldc14]

Bracket 3 will last until June 16th! Enjoy

Bracket 3
1. Once Upon a Time in the West
16. Jesus of Montreal

8. I am Cuba
9. Ben-Hur (1959)

5. Dancer in the Dark
12. The Big Red One

4. The Conformist
13. Dirty Harry

3. An American Werewolf in London
14. The Searchers

6. Sling Blade
11. The Bridge on the River Kwai

7. Allegro non Troppo
10. Troll 2

2. Sherlock Jr.
15. Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills

[mark f]

I've seen all these so I can vote now, although I'll discuss them another day. One thing's for sure is that I expect the usual suspects to vote against me right down the line. Sorry to Holden Pike for a couple of my gaffes. :cool:

Bracket 3

Once Upon a Time in the West
Jesus of Montreal

I am Cuba
Ben-Hur (1959)

Dancer in the Dark
The Big Red One

The Conformist
Dirty Harry

An American Werewolf in London
The Searchers

Sling Blade
The Bridge on the River Kwai

Allegro non Troppo
Troll 2

Sherlock Jr.
Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills

[stevo3001]

Bracket 3
1. Once Upon a Time in the West
16. Jesus of Montreal

8. I am Cuba
9. Ben-Hur (1959)

5. Dancer in the Dark
12. The Big Red One

4. The Conformist
13. Dirty Harry

3. An American Werewolf in London
14. The Searchers

6. Sling Blade
11. The Bridge on the River Kwai

7. Allegro non Troppo
10. Troll 2

2. Sherlock Jr.
15. Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills

[honeykid]

3. An American Werewolf in London
14. The Searchers

[Harry Lime]

Bracket 3
1. Once Upon a Time in the West
16. Jesus of Montreal

8. I am Cuba
9. Ben-Hur (1959)

5. Dancer in the Dark
12. The Big Red One

4. The Conformist
13. Dirty Harry

3. An American Werewolf in London
14. The Searchers

6. Sling Blade
11. The Bridge on the River Kwai

7. Allegro non Troppo
10. Troll 2

2. Sherlock Jr.
15. Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills

[Harry Lime]

One thing's for sure is that I expect the usual suspects to vote against me right down the line.
Who would that be? And are they really voting against you?

[linespalsy]

The only ones I can vote on for now:

5. Dancer in the Dark
12. The Big Red One (easy)

3. An American Werewolf in London
14. The Searchers (a bit harder)

6. Sling Blade
11. The Bridge on the River Kwai

7. Allegro non Troppo (Troll 2 isn't as terrible as I expected, at least cinematically. Plus the dialog and plot are pretty funny. Allegro non Troppo is better though)
10. Troll 2

A couple of my picks are in this bracket so I will at least try to see the competition for those.

[Tyler1]

Bracket 3
1. Once Upon a Time in the West
16. Jesus of Montreal

8. I am Cuba
9. Ben-Hur (1959)

5. Dancer in the Dark
12. The Big Red One

4. The Conformist
13. Dirty Harry

3. An American Werewolf in London
14. The Searchers

6. Sling Blade (need to see)
11. The Bridge on the River Kwai

7. Allegro non Troppo (need to see)
10. Troll 2 (need to see)

2. Sherlock Jr.
15. Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills (need to see)

[mark f]

Who would that be? And are they really voting against you?

I "misspoke". I should have "said" voting against the ones I voted for. So far, it's not exactly happening though.

[linespalsy]

mark f overstates "one lonely voice in the wilderness" status. Harry Lime furious.

News at 11!

[mark f]

I think that Lime was more incredulous concerning some kind of conspiracy theory. And yes, I "get" your post. Now, who calls who a Bastard? :cool:

[re93animator]

1. Once Upon a Time in the West
16. Jesus of Montreal

8. I am Cuba
9. Ben-Hur (1959)

5. Dancer in the Dark
12. The Big Red One

4. The Conformist
13. Dirty Harry

3. An American Werewolf in London
14. The Searchers

6. Sling Blade
11. The Bridge on the River Kwai

7. Allegro non Troppo
10. Troll 2

2. Sherlock Jr.
15. Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills

[linespalsy]

who calls who a Bastard? :cool:

Too easy (http://www.subzin.com/search.php?q=bastard+i%27ll+kill+you). Next trivia question! :p

[Harry Lime]

mark f overstates "one lonely voice in the wilderness" status. Harry Lime furious.

News at 11!
Heh.

I think that Lime was more incredulous concerning some kind of conspiracy theory.
Yeah.

[Nausicaä]

1. Once Upon a Time in the West
16. Jesus of Montreal

5. Dancer in the Dark
12. The Big Red One

4. The Conformist
13. Dirty Harry

3. An American Werewolf in London
14. The Searchers

6. Sling Blade
11. The Bridge on the River Kwai

[Sexy Celebrity]

7. Allegro non Troppo
10. Troll 2

I have no idea what Allegro non Troppo is, but Troll 2 gets my vote, anyway. I hope it wins the whole thing.

[honeykid]

One thing's for sure is that I expect the usual suspects to vote against me right down the line.
I did think you'd be refering to me, but as I'd probably agree with most of your choices, I'm guessing not. Except for Sherlock Jr, that is. But, even though I put Paradise Lost up, I'm not wasting my time watching Keaton just to vote against it.

[mark f]

It's only 45 minutes long, and I think it's on youtube and other free sites. Your movie is very good though, and no, I wasn't referring to you. HA!

[rauldc14]

7. Allegro non Troppo
10. Troll 2

I have no idea what Allegro non Troppo is, but Troll 2 gets my vote, anyway. I hope it wins the whole thing.

can't take the vote if you haven't seen both films unfortunately.

[mark f]

These were my picks in the second post here, and I'll include a few comments. I typed up all the movies, but I only saved half and then lost the post just before I entered. I'll add the others later.

Once Upon a Time in the West
Jesus of Montreal

The Leone western is basically an opera with a lush, elegaic Morricone score, but at times it does grow quite languid. My pick is my fave representation of the life of "Jesus". It's powerful, blasphemous, hilarious, sexy, thought-provoking and unpredictable. It's a film which should appeal to both the honestly-faithful and people who cannot stand anythimg religious.

I am Cuba
Ben-Hur (1959)

I am Cuba contains some striking imagery which helps to compensate for much of the amateurish acting and storytelling. My choice is too long and has some hokey special effects concerning the sea battle, but Ben-Hur's story does improve as the film progresses, and the chariot race is classic filmmaking.


Dancer in the Dark
The Big Red One

A lot of people find the Bjork/von Trier film a great tragedy and a dark, bravura musical, but I find it borderline watchable and still don't understand why von Trier's heroines continuously never fight back against their abusers. My pick showcases auteur Samuel Fuller's messy style which, at least to me, is far more affecting than its competition here.


The Conformist
Dirty Harry

The Conformist has some style to burn but ultimately I find it too enigmatic. Dirty Harry is a textbook example of action filmmaking with both a memorable anti-hero and a crazy villain.

[wintertriangles]

A lot of people find the Bjork/von Trier film as a great tragedy and a dark, bravura musical, but I find it borderline watchable and still don't understand why von Trier's heroines continuously never fight back against their abusers.I'm only speaking for this film but it would not be realistic for her to fight back; she feels submissive by nature, very modest, she would never think to fight back, that's why it's tragic because she is a good, common person and the world works against her.

[mark f]

It makes her out to be a Christ-like figure, which I understand, but when she loses, her son loses too, so I don't get why she simply doesn't open her mouth and speak the truth, at least once. If that's too much to ask, then I'll admit that life is just too "dark" for the average person but I knew that long before this film. I give it points for the musical numbers and songs though.

[Sexy Celebrity]

can't take the vote if you haven't seen both films unfortunately.

Okay. I've seen it. Watched it this weekend, in fact. Allegro was hot.

[rauldc14]

Scoring Update

Bracket 3
1. Once Upon a Time in the West 1
16. Jesus of Montreal 3

8. I am Cuba 3
9. Ben-Hur (1959) 1

5. Dancer in the Dark 2
12. The Big Red One 4

4. The Conformist 5
13. Dirty Harry 1

3. An American Werewolf in London 4
14. The Searchers 4

6. Sling Blade 2
11. The Bridge on the River Kwai 4

7. Allegro non Troppo 3
10. Troll 2 1

2. Sherlock Jr. 4
15. Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills 0

[wintertriangles]

I have so much to see in this bracket. I can almost guarantee my guesses though...how long do we have here?

[rauldc14]

June 16th for this one

[honeykid]

How many people yet to vote haven't seen Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills? Just wondering.

I might be able to get The Conformist watched today, depending on how the day goes.

[Thursday Next]

I haven't been able to get hold of Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills.

(It's just one of the many films Blockbuster don't have. I'm considering switching to lovefilm.)

[rauldc14]

How many people yet to vote haven't seen Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills? Just wondering.

I might be able to get The Conformist watched today, depending on how the day goes.


I haven't seen it. I'm going to see if I can find access to that one and hopefully get it watched.

[Thursday Next]

5. Dancer in the Dark
12. The Big Red One

3. An American Werewolf in London
14. The Searchers

[thracian dawg]

7. Allegro non Troppo
10. Troll 2

Some really amazing stuff in "Once upon a time in the West." Great transitions. Great images. When Claudia arrives in the train station, and there's a high angle of her waiting alone beside a stock yard full of provisions and chattel, much like herself. At times this western feels like it's on steroids. Although I didn't get to rewatch JOM for this match-up---for some curious reason (popularity?) it was always out at my video place.

1. Once Upon a Time in the West
16. Jesus of Montreal


Jez, what's not to like about "Ben Hur"? Extreme reversals of fortune: a bad ass chariot race; a sea battle; lepers; criss crossing paths with some spaced out hippy---a gargantuan length and all with a gay sub text---bare chested manly men in thigh high skirts. However, with that pristine Cuban light: the opening almost suggests a snow covered fjord near the Arctic circle rather than an island in the Caribbean. A couple of great things: the morning after scene with the escort. Great concision: everything is there. The man drops some bills on her pillow, then eyes her necklace (which symbolizes her values and spiritually), he drops a few more bills on the pillow and takes it---without asking--- for him it's merely a trinket, he collects them. Her boyfriend then walks in on him and his fiancé. The gringo then steps outside and gets quickly lost, then completely terrified by the squalor. There's another great scene (a telling flashback) with the farmer, preying to the heavens for his newly planted crop. The next cut is harvest time, the camera drops and swims though the sugar cane crop, suggesting the almost religious ecstasy that comes with hard work and "possessing" the fruits of one's life and labor. Especially if you compare the social justice themes common in both films, "Ben Hur" just withers in comparison. "I am Cuba" takes this match-up.

8. I am Cuba
9. Ben-Hur (1959)


The budget for "The Big Red One" must have been extremely tight: all the images seem carefully cropped and limited to medium and close-up shots and there's always a lack of establishing shots that could have supplied a little context. The ironies were good: A tank is hidden within a house; a crucifix blesses the slaughter in the killing fields; a monastery is filled with lunatics; a woman gives birth inside a tank. And some silliness, Sarge becomes a wandering Christ-like figure, leading the four Horsemen of the Apocalypse through a feckless Europe, saving them by killing everything in their path. This is a big hunk of bubble gum compared to the other film.

The tone in "Dancer in the Dark" is really slippery and difficult to grasp; there's a strange mix of melodrama and symbolism. The men are really sweet and decent, but at the same time, total rotters. I think the artistic restrictions that Von Trier limited himself to, at times, works against the story. There's scenes of her shambling around, feeling her way with her hands and feet, but a couple of POV shots of her dimming eye sight would have worked way better. Her story isn't about her deepening blindness, but her transformation into a "heart of gold" heroine.

5. Dancer in the Dark
12. The Big Red One


Marcello knows the eventuality that he will have to pay for any of his crimes during that period in Italian history will be extremely remote, given that the fascists were in the majority then and still hold key positions now. Loved the architecture: the characters look ant-like in the department lobby; the long stroll to the superior's desk in a room, almost the size of hockey rink. Plato's parable about men existing in a caves gets good play here, at the end of the film, the hero learns all the substance and meaning of which he's based his entire life was mere shadow.

4. The Conformist
13. Dirty Harry


Lots to like about "The Searchers". There's great comic relief. Monument valley is a character almost as complex and difficult as Ethan; it's used as background showing how unforgiving life can be in this place; nature completely dwarfs the puny settlers. It also shows how desperate and impossible their quest is as they track through that wilderness. But it also works in the foreground suggesting how forbidding and unrelenting Ethan is. The establishing shot of the Jorgensen homestead has a large sandstone butte in the background suggesting this frontier family is just as tough and hardy.

The most surprising thing about the film is the fierce hatred of all things Injin. Ethan and Martin wander casually through a village that has just been massacred by soldiers. White women go completely bonkers if they spend any time amongst them. In one interesting scene; Ethan shoots a buffalo for food, then deliberately kills about 12 more which links the idea that buffalo were not accidentally disappeared for their luxuriant pelts, but as a way of removing this plentiful food supply from the Indians to deliberately starve them to death. Ouch! And when they don't find Debbie within a couple of months, Ethan's actual quest mutates into finding her, just so that he can put a bullet through her heart.

3. An American Werewolf in London
14. The Searchers


You can tell Spielberg really loves "The Bridge over the river Kwai." he's ripped off countless images from it. Notice the similarities when the mortal nearly kills Col. Nicholson and the armless man on the beach scene in Private Ryan. Lush storytelling. The whole third act was really sparkled with irony. The big metaphor that nothing positive can ever be accomplished from war is front and center. It begins and ends in graveyards.

6. Sling Blade
11. The Bridge on the River Kwai


When I originally saw "Paradise Lost" I can still remember immediately disengaging from the film the moment their lawyer mentions they can only spend 1,000 dollars to refute the prosecutions case .... a thousand bucks? "Get out of jail free" cards are available for purchase ... if you're wealthy enough. So the verdict becomes a foregone conclusion at that very moment, and all that's left is the crying. So the originality of "Sherlock Jr" takes this one with a few good gags and visuals. This is also the film where Keaton broke his neck (during the water tower scene) His dad also has a role in this one. There's a funny story when the Keaton family was still playing Vaudeville his dad was so infuriated by a heckler in the audience he picked up and threw the young Buster off the stage at him.

2. Sherlock Jr.
15. Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills

[linespalsy]

1. Once Upon a Time in the West
16. Jesus of Montreal

[Thursday Next]

I watched Once Upon a Time in the West and Jesus of Montreal yesterday. I liked both but had some reservations which maybe someone can help clear up (spoilers ahead)

It's taken me this long to watch OUATITW because I never really like the idea of a Western – macho posturing with guns and an odd inflation of the cultural importance of a very specific time and place (what other time period has its own genre? It's always struck me as being very America-centric).

Once Upon A Time in the West had an absolutely brilliant score, to start with. I'm not sure I followed all of the plot - who is the deal over the railway and the station between in the end, since most of the original participants are dead? Does the deal even matter in the end? Why do we jump straight from Frank and Jill in bed to the auction house - is it some kind of set-up by Frank and if so, how is that the quickest way for him to get the land? Why not kill her or make her sell to him directly? Where do all the people building the town come from? Why does Harmonica wait until the end to shoot Frank when he's had ample opportunity and no problem shooting other people in the meantime? For a lot of these things I think it's simply contrived to have what would look good rather than what would make sense, and some things are dragged out while others are skimmed over. I'm sure that's true of a lot of films but it did bug me, slightly. I also think it suffered slightly from the sexism that unfortunately blights many films of this era. It was at times funny, though, definitely stylish, and mostly enjoyable to watch; I liked the grudging rapport between Harmonica and Cheyenne, and it's easy to see how much this has influenced later films.

Jesus of Montreal was funny, clever and interesting - at least to start with. I liked the hypocritical priest and the marketing man who takes Daniel to the seafood restaurant. It was the later scenes that bothered me more, where some of the irony was lost. It did feel at times as though they were being a little heavy handed with the Christ comparisons, and I didn't really understand why they first go to one hospital which is overflowing with patients and nobody to treat them while the later hospital they're seen to immediately. Was this supposed to be funny, or allegorical, or an indictment of the Canadian healthcare system? I found it jarring. And I didn't know why Daniel's friends would just let him leave the hospital when he clearly wasn't ok. And what was the significance of Daniel's friend who appears in the first scene, doesn't like the play, then disappears? Still, a very good film, I'm glad to have got to see it.

Undecided which way to vote just yet.

[linespalsy]

Is there ever a "deal" in Once Upon a Time in the West? The tycoon wants the land the railroad needs so he can extend his monopoly, while the settler wants a piece of the pie that he bought "fair and square". I don't remember how this came across concretely in the film, but I can see two possible reasons for keeping her alive. 1) it might have been harder to pin a further killing on Cheyenne or some other outlaw without drawing suspicion. Keep in mind when they killed the family they didn't realize she had already married into it, they thought they were wiping out all the heirs. 2) they thought they could intimidate her into "dealing" with them. They resorted to murdering the family because her husband wouldn't sell, not just for the sake of killing them (not that they really had a problem with killing). There's also the macho/sexist fact (that you already alluded to?) that as a beautiful woman she's as much an objective in its own right as she is a free agent.

As for Bronson's motives for keeping Frank alive: Gratification of defeating his schemes and toying with him first (keeping his identity/motives hidden until the end)? The main reason might be as you implied "to draw the film out" but those other things also strike me as valid character motivation.

I'd like you to put all that aside for a minute and consider that Once Upon a Time in the West isn't really "about" the plot, though. To me it's more a drama of place than people (or maybe of both but with the normal narrative emphasis inverted). The images and sounds (not just the wonderful soundtrack, but that too) pull you through it more than the plot. Notice how even the score is partially diegetic in the character of "harmonica"? In that sense I think it stands fairly well apart from most other "traditional" (macho) westerns, including the others by the same director, and I agree with mark calling it "an opera" to some degree.

I liked Jesus of Montreal also. It might not be a completely fair match for me since I've only seen it once while I've seen Once Upon a Time... a whole lot and my appreciation keeps deepening. On the other hand none of the other spaghetti westerns I've seen have held up nearly as well so it certainly earned my vote "fair and square."

[linespalsy]

8. I am Cuba
9. Ben-Hur (1959)

I have the Conformist out from the library right now. I might not get a chance to see Paradise Lost, since I need to get it from Netflix and I'm currently too addicted to Reilly: Ace of Spies to move it to no.1 in my queue. If I can finish disc 4 of Reilly by this weekend I might be able to get hk's pick before this round's time is up.

[Thursday Next]

1. Once Upon a Time in the West
16. Jesus of Montreal

6. Sling Blade
11. The Bridge on the River Kwai

[mark f]

Thursday, I was about to try to justify a vote for Jesus of Montreal for you (and your kids, although I know they can't watch it for a few years), but you already voted. The main thing I would say to anyone about this Jesus film is that the last part is actually its coup. It sucks you in with real life, pain, suffering, love, fun, sex, laughs, etc. I believe that Jesus didn't have sex, but I don't consider it or much of what I blabber on about "important" (His mom had sex, which is enough for me to be considered a heretic to some). But, the film is alive in the here and now and shows a powerful Jesus actually performing what amounts to miracles in the present day. I find it almost impossible to believe that anybody could actually predict the exact fate of this Jesus although it "saves" so many lives. Lothaire Bluteau is awesome in the role of "of Montreal", just as he was soon after in Black Robe.

[linespalsy]

4. The Conformist
13. Dirty Harry

[EDIT]: switching my vote like a true conformist.

[wintertriangles]

Bracket 3
1. Once Upon a Time in the West
16. Jesus of Montreal

8. I am Cuba
9. Ben-Hur (1959)

5. Dancer in the Dark
12. The Big Red One

3. An American Werewolf in London
14. The Searchers

6. Sling Blade
11. The Bridge on the River Kwai

7. Allegro non Troppo
10. Troll 2

[honeykid]

4. The Conformist
13. Dirty Harry

God, The Conformist is a dull piece of cinema, but then, it was directed by Bertolucci so I was expecting little else. OK, so it looks pretty, but so does a still and it doesn't take an hour forty-five to look at a still. I say an hour forty-five, it actually took about 4 days, as I could only do 25-40 minutes at a time, so mind-numbingly dull was this film.

[rauldc14]

3 days remain...

[rauldc14]

Here's the results of this bracket with one matchup pending:

Bracket 3
1. Once Upon a Time in the West 4
16. Jesus of Montreal 4

8. I am Cuba 6
9. Ben-Hur (1959) 1

5. Dancer in the Dark 5
12. The Big Red One 4

4. The Conformist 5
13. Dirty Harry 2

3. An American Werewolf in London 6
14. The Searchers 5

6. Sling Blade 3
11. The Bridge on the River Kwai 6

7. Allegro non Troppo 4
10. Troll 2 1

2. Sherlock Jr. 5
15. Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills 0

Once Upon a Time in the West and Jesus of Montreal go into OT

[linespalsy]

Once Upon a Time in the West and Jesus of Montreal go into OT

Bump.

[rauldc14]

This one has been in OT for quite some time. I'll set a deadline of Monday or else random coin flip by me. And I haven't seen either film so no bias:p

[rauldc14]

still waiting folks, though it's looking more and more like a coin toss come Tuesday.

[rauldc14]

Once Upon a Time in the West won the coinflip and is moving on. I'll be posting Round 2 of Bracket 3 and 4.

[sarah f]

Crap! I meant to come in here and vote last night but I accidentally fell asleep early. I was going to vote for Jesus of Montreal. Dammit.