Vegetarian or Non vegetarian? [Archive]

Brodinski

08-27-11, 09:44 AM

Well......are you Vegetarian or Non vegetarian? It's good for you.My yoga trainer advised me..

Hmm... lean meat is actually good for you, as is poultry due to the high amount of protein in it.

I have a friend who is a vegetarian and who models quite a bit (insert joke about male models). He has a job coming up in September for which his abs have to show and it's an absolute nightmare for him to eat properly in order to lose body fat.

The problem with plant-based foods is that most of them are very, very high on carbohydrates, which are bad when you want to lose your fat. So, the guy is now eating nothing but soup, salad and blending whey and cassein protein with water = starve to some extent.

This is an extreme example, but being a vegetarian isn't necessarily good for you in that you will consume a massive amount of carbs if you don't have a strict diet strategy. That's not to say that carbs are bad, but I don't endorse a huge intake of them. That's not healthy.

Don't you think you're gonna miss meat?

Skepsis93

08-27-11, 10:20 AM

I'm not vegetarian myself, but most of my family are and I notice a lot of people seem to have this misconception that veggies eat nothing but vegetables. There are meat substitutes that have the exact same nutritional values as the meat they are imitating. Becoming a vegetarian these days doesn't mean sacrificing a good diet, in fact most's heath is better off for it.

Also, sure there are groups of people who are preachy about it. But that goes for any group of people. There are people who are preachy about eating meat, too.

Miss Vicky

08-27-11, 11:59 AM

I was a lacto-ovo vegetarian (meaning I did not eat meat, but would eat eggs and dairy) for about 11 years. I started at about 16 and kept up through my late 20s.

Honestly, I think it really impacted my health in a negative way. Even with all the meat substitutes and the eggs and dairy, my protein to carb ratio was way off balance and I was eating too many bad carbs - simple starches and refined sugars.

I gave it up a few years ago for various reasons and I must say that's probably the best choice I could have made in my circumstances. As a result of my mistakes, I am now insulin resistant and have blood glucose in the pre-diabetic range. (I'm working to correct this with exercise and a diet that includes lean meats and high fiber carb sources.)

Now, I'm not saying that being a vegetarian is always an unhealthy choice, but it isn't something that anybody should just dive into because it's all too easy to do it wrong. Do your research. Meet with a dietition or nutritionist to make sure you're making the right choices. Learn which protein sources are best. Try not to rely too heavily on commercially available substitutes as they can be very high in sodium. Also try not to rely too heavily on soy products since they contain estrogens and can have negative effects on your body if consumed too much. Do everything in your power to make sure you aren't making mistakes.

Nausicaä

08-27-11, 12:05 PM

Also, sure there are groups of people who are preachy about it. But that goes for any group of people. There are people who are preachy about eating meat, too.

Oh yes of course, but this is a group where I've met a lot compared to other beliefs and so on. And I know some who are absolutely lovely too. But the majority that I've met have been negative. And I can't see many meat eaters preaching compared to vegetarians.

nebbit

10-04-11, 08:57 PM

Vegetarian :yup:

mark f

10-04-11, 09:07 PM

I'm an omnivore, but most foods are starting not to taste too good to me. Don't worry about me. I have enough fat on me to hibernate for three years straight. In fact, that might solve two different problems I have.

akatemple

10-04-11, 09:12 PM

Not a vegetarian, but the only meat I eat is fish so I guess I am kind of close.

HitchFan97

10-04-11, 09:15 PM

Not a vegetarian. I love meat too much :D

lundy1026

10-04-11, 09:53 PM

Deffinately NOT a vegetarian. I LOVE roast beef, beef jerkey, turkey, salami and hamburgers (especially COVERED in lawrys season salt). I'm not a big chicken fan tho.
I very much dislike salad. A: I HATE lettuce/cabbage & tomatoes. B: Veggies arn't even filling.
I do however LOVE potatoes, brocoli and ESPECIALLY SPINAGE yummm

filmgirlinterrupted

10-04-11, 10:05 PM

Carnivore :D

mack

10-04-11, 11:38 PM

meat eater. i dont really respect "vegetarians" who eat chicken and fish, or go on a vegetarian bent for a couple of months, because ....who hasnt done that once or twice in their life? That happened to me in college when I was too poor to buy groceries, so I ate myself through my canned goods. :shrug: whoop-de-doo.

in my experience, vegetarians who are hard-core ....are at best weak. No, I mean literally, physically weak, and at worst their diet creates, or complicates their score of health issues. ijs.

and Im always blown away by the obese vegetarians. Its like ...disturbing, because the diet is clearly not working for them. one girl I knew in HS ended up bingeing on carbs and sugar, and struggled with her weight, whereas I ate anything and everything I wanted and wore a size 4. I get it as a dietary aid for a certain period of time to control weight or to aid with other health issues - long term? Im still skeptical.

wintertriangles

10-04-11, 11:52 PM

The hell is a non-vegetarian? It's as absurd as a non-smoker. I'm an omnivore, and a breather.

linespalsy

10-05-11, 10:36 AM

The hell is a non-vegetarian? It's as absurd as a non-smoker.

I had a friend in college who was on an all raw meat diet for a while. He even joined a raw food club and appalled all the other (vegan) members at the first meeting he went to. "You mean you don't eat meat?!"

The End.

Skepsis93

10-05-11, 10:51 AM

The focus is clearly on the health side of things here -- I see no mention of the moral or ethical reasons behind people becoming vegetarian.

Just throwing that out there. :p

Sedai

10-05-11, 11:30 AM

I'm an omnivore....

honeykid

10-06-11, 02:54 AM

The focus is clearly on the health side of things here -- I see no mention of the moral or ethical reasons behind people becoming vegetarian.

Just throwing that out there. :p
That's because there aren't any.

Sexy Celebrity

10-06-11, 03:56 AM

I just ate some chili sandwiches, so I'd say I'm a non-vegetarian.

Skepsis93

10-06-11, 01:56 PM

That's because there aren't any.

Oh, wow... I usually respect the stuff you say, honeykid, but that's taking ignorance to a whole new level.

honeykid

10-07-11, 09:21 AM

Skepsis93

10-07-11, 09:29 AM

How so? I'm talking about the moral and ethical reasons for eating meat, not the way the animals are treated. That's a whole different arguement and one that's particular to each animal/meat/farming method.

Well, now you put it that way honeykid. :p I thought those two things were bundled together. Of course I know there's no moral/ethical reasons for not actually eating the meat, but as long as you recognise there are behind the treatment of the animals, I guess I owe you an apology. The latter was what I was getting at.

honeykid

10-07-11, 09:37 AM

That's ok, Skepsis, no apology needed. :)

wintertriangles

10-07-11, 04:15 PM

It's already been proven it's an unhealthy practice. End of health debate

sreenathpktr

10-08-11, 01:19 AM

Not a vegetarian, but the only meat I eat is fish so I guess I am kind of close.
Steve Jobs was a pescatarian...

will.15

10-08-11, 03:03 AM

If I thought about it much, I guess I would feel kind of bad eating beef because cows are such nice pleasant looking animals. But chickens? Horrible looking things. No problem. Except one time I saw this documentary and this guy had a chicken on his lap amd he was stroking it and the chicken was clearly enjoing it, which shows even those subhuman creatures had fellings and could show affection. Gusess what is in the oven right now?Chicken. But I didn't kill it. It came from the market without feathers so didn't remind me of the chicken getting petted. Also it was in parts already.

Holden Pike

10-08-11, 04:04 AM

I've been a vegetarian for about fourteen years now. Don't think I'll ever go back to meat.

Here's an anecdote to illustrate why. Beyond whatever moral issues I have with meat, back when I first went down this path, I was about three months in, but hadn't yet fully committed to it - I simply hadn't had any meat in a few months. So one day I got a craving for a bacon cheesburger. I went to Wendy's and gobbled one down. I became violently ill, both ends. All I know is that if you don't eat salad for three months but suddenly have one, your body doesn't reject it. What the fart does that tell you?

will.15

10-08-11, 06:21 AM

This woman isn't a vegetarian.

Parole denied for woman who cooked, ate husband

Omaima Nelson says she is a changed woman, adding, 'I am not a monster.' The victim's daughter and an original prosecutor in the grisly 1991 killing speak against release.

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2011-10/65239834.jpg
Omaima Nelson told parole officials: “I swear to God I did not eat any part of him. I am not a monster.” (Diana Marcum/Los Angeles Times / October 5, 2011)

http://www.latimes.com/media/thumbnails/story/2011-10/65212804-04201031.jpg (http://www.movieforums.com/news/local/la-me-model-murder-20111005,0,6452381.story)

D.A. to fight parole for ex-model who ate husband's body parts.

By Diana Marcum, Los Angeles Times October 6, 2011

Reporting from Chowchilla, Calif. -- A woman who killed, dismembered and cooked her husband was deemed a risk to society and denied parole Wednesday in a lengthy and at times emotional hearing.

Omaima Nelson, 43, a former nanny commonly compared to the fictional cannibal killer Hannibal Lecter at the time of the murder in 1991, held that she was a changed woman, eager to live the "good life God meant."

But first came the recounting of Nelson's earlier life: by her account, the victim of almost unimaginable abuse as a child in Egypt. Later, a beauty with cut-glass cheekbones, who by prosecution accounts, traded on her sexuality for rent and cars from a long, overlapping line of men — most of them older.

Orange County Senior Deputy Dist. Atty. Randy Pawloski, an original prosecutor in the case who took the unusual step of personally attending the hearing at the Central California Women's Facility in Chowchilla, said Nelson had a pattern of using sex as a con game, and that her games grew increasingly violent over the years.

In 1991 she met William Nelson in a bar playing pool, and within weeks they were married. Omaima Nelson says it was only then that her husband showed a violent side. She said he was trying to strangle her when she hit him with a lamp, stabbed him with scissors and killed him.

"If I didn't defend my life, I would have been dead. I'm sorry it happened, but I'm glad I lived," she said.

"I'm sorry I dismembered him."

The marriage lasted three weeks.

"The honeymoon ended as dramatically as any in American history," Pawloski told the two-person panel, echoing an opinion that appellate court Justice William Bedsworth wrote in 2000 upholding her murder conviction

In the earlier court trial, a psychiatrist testified that Nelson said she put on red shoes, a red hat and red lipstick before chopping up and cooking her husband's body. She said she prepared his ribs like in a restaurant and said aloud, "It's so sweet."

At the parole hearing, Nelson shook her head vehemently and grimaced as she denied eating her husband.

"I swear to God I did not eat any part of him. I am not a monster," she said.

Commissioner Cynthia Fritz then asked, "What was your purpose in cooking him?"

Nelson declined to answer.

Nelson, her straight, black hair hanging almost to her waist, her face only gently lined with age, said she was not the person she was 20 years ago, a woman who "refused to let go of any pain anyone had ever caused her."

She said she had "looked for love in all the wrong places ... but now I value my integrity and my journey.... I have a strong desire to help others."

She told the board that she was grateful for the grace of God and her family and if released would return to live with her mother in Egypt.

As evidence of change, she cited visits she shared with her deceased latest husband, a man in his 70s whom she married while in prison.

"We had three-day conjugal visits," she said. "There were knives in the kitchen. He never felt threatened or endangered in any way. I loved him so much."

The last person to speak before deliberations was Nelson's 35-year-old daughter, Margaret.

It took her several moments to compose herself before she could read a written statement about not having her father at her wedding, or being able to introduce him to her 8-week-old daughter.

She revealed that her father had invited her to that fateful Thanksgiving dinner to meet his new wife. She had angrily refused, but she said he had remained kind and patient.

Margaret Nelson said the reason she was at the hearing was to "return some human dignity to the man who was my father."

Abandoning her written notes, she tearfully looked straight at the two-person board.

"I don't know the adequate punishment for a murderer who doesn't even leave a family a body to mourn over. But I do know you don't let her out," she said.

Nausicaä

10-08-11, 07:36 AM

I became violently ill, both ends. All I know is that if you don't eat salad for three months but suddenly have one, your body doesn't reject it. What the fart does that tell you?

Nothing bad. 'Violently' ill and vomiting seems very strange especially after only 3 months, as long as you are sensible and come back onto any food a bit at a time and not all at once, really the only thing if something should happen is a dicky stomach/stomach related things with it getting back to normal.

My brother was a vegetarian for a year or so during his 30s, decided to go back to meat and all he got was mild upset stomach getting back use to the different food source - and nothing else. Parents were for a while during the 70s and 80s, bit of excess farting/dicky stomach... nothing else.

Meat for the majority of their lives - Brother in his 40s, still healthy, parents in their 60s, no health problems so far and all three have never been into hospital for related issues.

An Uncle who was a vegetarian for the majority of his life - died of cancer a few years back in his 40s.

All the above and what Doctors say, is all the proof I need that there is nothing wrong with eating meat moderately.

Sexy Celebrity

10-08-11, 07:41 AM

Here's an anecdote to illustrate why. Beyond whatever moral issues I have with meat, back when I first went down this path, I was about three months in, but hadn't yet fully committed to it - I simply hadn't had any meat in a few months. So one day I got a craving for a bacon cheesburger. I went to Wendy's and gobbled one down. I became violently ill, both ends. All I know is that if you don't eat salad for three months but suddenly have one, your body doesn't reject it. What the fart does that tell you?

Yeah, but was it the meat's fault or was it the way Wendy's prepared the sandwich? Personally, I once became violently ill like that -- without having the flu or anything -- years ago after having ate at a new chinese buffet. God, that was unreal. Went home sick and the next day I was fine. I hadn't been off meat in three months, though. It just randomly happened. I just wonder ... what if you had ate meat prepared some other way -- would the same thing had happened?

Not discounting vegetarianism - I find it fascinating and I actually do think it's a gross thing to eat dead animals, but prepared as food, I usually never think about it. Vegetarian options just seem too bland and limiting to me. Every now and then, I don't mind eating a dish that contains only vegetables, but I find it pleasurable to bite into something such as hot, fried chicken. With sauces... honey mustard and buffalo. You can't get the same feeling from vegetables. Maybe it's best to sacrifice those feelings in order to stay healthy -- I've heard not eating meat is the best way to prevent a heart attack -- but I dunno, I would think I'd feel like I hadn't truly enjoyed life if I didn't eat meat. I understand that's probably a crazy thing to say, because I'm sure you can, but to always pass up the chance to eat meat....

I could go for an eggplant parmesan sub right now, though. I LOVE those.

http://www.valentis.biz/images/menu/eggplant-sub.jpg

I could possibly eat this meal for the rest of my life. Maybe. If forced to, I could handle it and still be moderately happy.

Well, maybe. I just remembered I love Italian subs too much -- and they have lots of salami and things.

Sexy Celebrity

10-08-11, 07:51 AM

Nausicaä

10-08-11, 07:54 AM

^ Not pretty when they chase you, they suddenly turn, TURN! I remember when I was little, didn't do anything to it, this little grey one chased me right across a farmer's field...

Never been chased by a cow. Cows are nice. :yup:

Sexy Celebrity

10-08-11, 07:55 AM

http://www.freewebs.com/vegan-vegetarian/chickens%20on%20conveyor.jpg

OH MY GOD.

The graduation ceremony -- they're about to become McNuggets!

Nausicaa, after seeing this picture, I think the chickens have every right to attack us.

Nausicaä

10-08-11, 07:57 AM

Indeed, but not my one. They were only on the farm for eggs/and think the grey one was a pet, got to run around everywhere and lived out their days in comfort - well compared to that above. No right at all I say! ;)

Sexy Celebrity

10-08-11, 07:59 AM

http://s1.hubimg.com/u/2466220_f520.jpg

THIS is why I do not like cows!

I once trekked my way through a field in West Virginia where some cows lived and I had to literally jump across these. They were everywhere.

wintertriangles

10-08-11, 09:42 AM

Sedai

10-08-11, 10:17 AM

quint

10-08-11, 10:27 AM

Not quite vegetarian, but I don't eat alot of red meat at all, maybe once or twice over the course of couple weeks.

Nothing to do with moral or ethical leanings, it just makes me feel kinda sluggish.

I don't eat at any of those fast food places at all, though. It makes me feel queasy for a couple days. I can't digest that stuff.

Sexy Celebrity

10-08-11, 04:26 PM

I dunno man, Wendy's makes me violently ill and I eat meat pretty frequently. ;)

I don't get violently ill from Wendy's. Or anyplace else, really. Just that old chinese buffet -- and I actually dared to go back to that place more, too. Didn't have it happen to me again after that first time.

Is this something that happens in your 30's?

wintertriangles

10-08-11, 05:02 PM

No, it happens when you eat healthy and return to fast food

will.15

10-08-11, 05:19 PM

I got tainted hamburger beef twice from the supermarket. I was throwing up for hours.

Did that make me become a vegetarian?

No.

But I no longer buy ground raw meat.

Sexy Celebrity

10-08-11, 05:30 PM

Holden's Wendy's anecdote isn't gonna convince most people to stop eating meat. All the things that made him try vegetarianism in the first place -- three months prior to that incident and beyond -- is what probably really convinced him to stay on track. Granted, the vomiting helped him stay on course, although part of me wonders if maybe the vomiting wasn't caused by the sudden switch back to eating meat. When I got violently ill from my chinese buffet meal, it happened right after I had moved to another state (with my ex) and I was starting this new job that I wasn't crazy about. I wonder if maybe I was very stressed out and I expressed it by getting sick -- by getting sick and leaving the job early, I actually had to forfeit that job. My ex tried to say, "Oh, it's just the mushrooms they had there, I bet," but I never felt convinced that it was all the chinese food's fault -- 'cause I went back to this place many times later on and never had that problem. Although I did avoid the mushrooms.

I don't know if the illness was triggered psychologically, but I can see that happening and I can imagine Holden might have vomited because he wanted to dissuade himself from eating meat again, and vomiting scared him into sticking to his plan. Although it's harder to prove this because Holden has the fact that he didn't eat meat for three months prior to this happening. But something about the story just seems funny and can't entirely convince me that the meat was the whole problem.

will.15

10-08-11, 05:43 PM

I tried to eat once a veggie burger. The taste was so disgusting I almost threw up. But I gave up and tossed into the garbage after just a few bites.

Sexy Celebrity

10-08-11, 06:31 PM

I tried to eat once a veggie burger. The taste was so disgusting I almost threw up. But I gave up and tossed into the garbage after just a few bites.

I had one once at Red Robin. It wasn't bad. You could have any style of burger you wanted there with the veggie burger instead.

lundy1026

10-08-11, 06:38 PM

I had one once at Red Robin. It wasn't bad. You could have any style of burger you wanted there with the veggie burger instead.

Red Robin. Yum

will.15

10-08-11, 06:38 PM

Mine was a frozen one they sell at the supermarket. Morningstar brand?

Sexy Celebrity

10-08-11, 06:48 PM

Never had it, but personally, I HATE frozen hamburgers even if they have real meat in them. So I'm not surprised a vegetarian frozen hamburger was bad.

Although, I think they said the veggie burger they used at Red Robin was a Boca burger, which I believe is a frozen hamburger. But I dunno how they come at Red Robin.

Well, I take that back. There's some frozen hamburgers I've liked, but they're usually instant hamburgers that come as a meal -- not hamburgers grouped in a package of 8-16 or something like that.

Anyway, I'm having a vegetarian dish tonight, you could say -- spaghetti alfredo.

honeykid

10-08-11, 06:59 PM

http://www.valentis.biz/images/menu/eggplant-sub.jpg

SC, that's one of the most disgusting looking foods I've ever seen. What is it with Americans covering their fast food in sloppy gloop? Have you ever seen Man V Food? There'll be some gorgeous looking food on there, then it'll be covered with slop. :sick:

Sexy Celebrity

10-08-11, 07:20 PM

It might look disgusting, but it (should) be absolutely amazing once you bite into it... all that cheeeeeeze.

http://www.topnews.in/files/Whoopi-Goldberg.jpg

Honeykid, why don't you eat some Whoopi Goldberg? Whoopi wants some sloppy gloop covering her.

Sexy Celebrity

10-08-11, 07:23 PM

http://i54.tinypic.com/2up5tv7.jpg

This is what I'm eating right now - spaghetti alfredo. Very easy to make and very simple, but I'm proud of it - it tastes really good. And yes, that's my actual food - it'll be gone in a minute here.

Sexy Celebrity

10-08-11, 07:34 PM

I'm done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzW-R3yrY0U&feature=related

Powdered Water

10-08-11, 07:56 PM

I often wonder what a Vegetarian tastes like. Because let's face facts here folks. When the endtimes draws near and our Meat supply runs out. I'm gonna need meat. Vegetarians naturally are weaker because they no longer partake of the manly meat substance. Therefore. Easy prey.

How do you season a Vegetarian? Plain old ketchup? Nah, to boring. Mmmmm deep fried Vegetarian. That sounds tasty. Maybe a touch of salt and pepper.

akatemple

10-08-11, 08:19 PM

I haven't had any Beef in a while, trying to decide what I want.

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc406/akatemple/beefchart_3_edit.jpg?t=

Sexy Celebrity

10-08-11, 08:26 PM

Ewwww....

Nausicaä

10-09-11, 02:22 PM

Anywhere as far away from the bottom as possible...

Oktober

10-14-11, 09:18 AM

I tried vegetarianism once, but I was lured back by pork pies, beef with mustard & bacon sarnies covered in HP Sauce.

Nausicaä

10-14-11, 09:23 AM

Bacon sarnies, yummmmmmmmmmmmm. :D

Oktober

10-14-11, 09:36 AM

Bacon sarnies, yummmmmmmmmmmmm. :D

The perfect bacon butty:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/6538643.stm

ollanik

10-14-11, 09:37 AM

I eat meat every day.

Gabrielle947

03-10-12, 06:28 PM

I'm actually mad at vegetarians.
First of all,meat is a human need.Only meat has this vitamin B12.Yeah,you might say that some vegetarian food has it as well but it's not as good as in meat.Vegetarianism is very bad for children because growing body needs proteins(best source of it is meat) and it's so awful when vegetarian(or worse,vegan) parents prohibit their children to eat meat.Heard one story about a boy whose parents didn't let him eat meat,so he secretly used to eat it at school. :/
Some people became vegetarians because they are sorry for the animals.I love animals,too but let's face it - cows,pigs,chicken live to be killed.If everyone would become vegans,where would these animals go since farmers won't have use to keep them?They won't survive in the nature because long long time ago people domested them and now they can't protect themselves.
Finally,I think that vegetarianism is kinda unfair.We live in the 21st century and we are so spoiled that we don't know how to vary our lives.Kids in Africa would do anything to have a steak and we while having an opportunity to eat well,don't use it and feed ourselves with grass.People have teeth which are suited for vegetables,fruits and meat.So we should just be glad that we can eat various food.
Also remember that the first people thousands of years ago wouldn't have survived if they hadn't eaten meat.
I'm sure that if I would have told my parents that I want to be a vegetarian,they would have thrown me out their house. :D

Yoda

03-10-12, 06:34 PM

Well, geez, I'm not mad at them unless they try to, ya' know, stop me from eating meat.

Anyway, the timing of this thread is fantastic, because for dinner tonight we're literally having grilled chicken wrapped in bacon. If that answers your question.

Miss Vicky

03-10-12, 06:37 PM

Only meat has this vitamin B12.Yeah,you might say that some vegetarian food has it as well but it's not as good as in meat.Vegetarianism is very bad for children because growing body needs proteins(best source of it is meat)

Where is your evidence to support these claims?

Some people became vegetarians because they are sorry for the animals.I love animals,too but let's face it - cows,pigs,chicken live to be killed.If everyone would become vegans,where would these animals go since farmers won't have use to keep them?They won't survive in the nature because long long time ago people domested them and now they can't protect themselves.

Try telling that to communities that are overrun with feral chickens and hogs.

http://www.invasivespeciesinfo.gov/animals/wildboar.shtml

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2011/04/14/feral-chickens-on-the-rampage/

Finally,I think that vegetarianism is kinda unfair.We live in the 21st century and we are so spoiled that we don't know how to vary our lives.Kids in Africa would do anything to have a steak and we while having an opportunity to eat well,don't use it and feed ourselves with grass.

This is a logical fallacy. What kids in Africa would "do anything for" has no relevance to whether or not people in more affluent nations choose to eat meat. Also, people don't feed themselves with grass.

Powderfinger

03-10-12, 06:46 PM

I eat meat, though if you have balance diet and you eat your good fats, protein, good carbs, vegs. You can be good vego. Some vegetation's are amenic.

will.15

03-10-12, 06:53 PM

http://cannemma.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/jess3.jpg?w=535 (http://celebritypomp.blogspot.com)

Powderfinger

03-10-12, 07:01 PM

I know she is pregnant, so I probably shouldn't say it...but I will! She is very heavy.

Gabrielle947

03-10-12, 07:03 PM

Where is your evidence to support these claims?
"While lacto-ovo vegetarians usually get enough B12 through consuming dairy products, vegans will lack B12 unless they consume B12-containing dietary supplements or B12-fortified foods."
"According to the UK Vegan Society, the present consensus is that any B12 present in plant foods is likely to be unavailable to humans because B12 analogues can compete with B12 and inhibit metabolism." - Both from wiki.

Try telling that to communities that are overrun with feral chickens and hogs.
but many domested animals can't protect themselves.My point is that for meat or not,these animals would die anyway.Unless someone decides to take care of them,but that definitely wouldn't happen.
What kids in Africa would "do anything for" has no relevance to whether or not people in more affluent nations choose to eat meat.
I'm just saying that we should be glad that we have opportunity to have meat.I can justify vegetarianism if a person just don't like meat.And it's not that I hate or can't tolerate vegetarians - they just seem spoiled for me.

will.15

03-10-12, 07:03 PM

She looks better heavy than most women skinny.

Miss Vicky

03-10-12, 07:19 PM

"While lacto-ovo vegetarians usually get enough B12 through consuming dairy products, vegans will lack B12 unless they consume B12-containing dietary supplements or B12-fortified foods."
"According to the UK Vegan Society, the present consensus is that any B12 present in plant foods is likely to be unavailable to humans because B12 analogues can compete with B12 and inhibit metabolism." - Both from wiki.

If by "wiki" you mean wikipedia, that is not a credible source.

but many domested animals can't protect themselves.My point is that for meat or not,these animals would die anyway.Unless someone decides to take care of them,but that definitely wouldn't happen.

You mentioned pigs and chickens specifically. So did I. You stated that food animals can't survive on their own and you were wrong. Miami is so overrun with feral chickens that they've got a special volunteer force of policemen and firefighters, known as "The Chicken Busters", to catch them in an attempt to control the population. Even so, it's a losing battle because the chickens are not only thriving, they're multiplying.

I'm just saying that we should be glad that we have opportunity to have meat.I can justify vegetarianism if a person just don't like meat.And it's not that I hate or can't tolerate vegetarians - they just seem spoiled for me.

Vegetarians are spoiled? I don't follow.

You also said that you're "mad at vegetarians" yet give no real reason for it. You mention a story about a boy who sneaks meat at school because he's not allowed to eat it at home. Are you saying you're mad at his parents for not letting him eat meat? I've heard stories of Jewish children secretly eating pork while at school or with friends. Are Jewish people "spoiled" for not eating the meat of pigs when they have the opportunity to do so? Are Jewish parents depriving their children by forbidding them to eat pork? Unless actual proof can be found that any of these choices are causing malnourishment of the children in question, there is nothing to be "mad" about. What people eat or don't eat is a personal choice. Unless it's directly affecting you, why does it matter?

Yoda

03-10-12, 07:27 PM

To be fair, Wikipedia isn't really the source in this case; it's the source of the source. Even that quote mentions the UK Vegan Society, for example. It appears to have come from this page (http://www.vegansociety.com/lifestyle/nutrition/b12.aspx).

Also, I think the "spoiled" thing refers to the fact that it's only our considerable wealth that sometimes makes the vegan lifestyle plausible, and that lots of people have to eat whatever they can get. Again, not that I'm agreeing with the sentiment, but I'm pretty sure that's the idea behind it.

The only real opinion I have about any of this is that, in a less developed society, it's probably pretty impractical to be a vegan, because you probably don't have access to a lot of protein from non-meat sources. But we're lucky enough to live in places wealthy enough that such alternatives are available, for those who want them.

Miss Vicky

03-10-12, 07:32 PM

Also, I think the "spoiled" thing refers to the fact that it's only our considerable wealth that sometimes makes the vegan lifestyle plausible, and that lots of people have to eat whatever they can get. Again, not that I'm agreeing with the sentiment, but I'm pretty sure that's the idea behind it.

On the other hand, it's our considerable wealth that allows us to make the personal choice to eat things like steak and bacon, too. So what?

Should we glut ourselves on any and all available foods just so that we can say we've taken advantage of our opportunities? (As if U.S. obesity rates aren't high enough). The argument still makes no sense to me.

(Not that any of the above statements are actually directed at you, Yoda.)

nebbit

03-10-12, 07:44 PM

Gabrielle947

03-11-12, 06:23 AM

You stated that food animals can't survive on their own and you were wrong.
yes,but there's world outside America too where food animals don't attack people and are dependent on them.And if you think that all food animals can survive in the nature,some of them definitely would come back to farms and steal food from them.This would cause a huge commotion.So I don't think that it's a good idea for human to become vegans. ;)
Are you saying you're mad at his parents for not letting him eat meat?
yes,I am.You think it is normal to hide from your parents what you eat?
Unless actual proof can be found that any of these choices are causing malnourishment of the children in question, there is nothing to be "mad" about.
"The fact that vegans tend to have lower B12 levels than lacto-ovo vegetarians or non-vegetarians is often countered with, "Few vegans have ever shown signs of B12 deficiency." However, most vegans appear to supplement their diet with B12 (often unknowingly through fortified foods) and there have been plenty of vegans who have suffered from B12 deficiency documented in the scientific literature. In some cases, the symptoms have cleared up after taking B12 supplements, but not everyone has been so lucky" - http://veganhealth.org/articles/vitaminb12

Also this - http://www.scotsman.com/news/health/vegetarian_diet_bad_for_children_1_736972
Unless it's directly affecting you, why does it matter?
well let's just say that I care not only about myself and it looks sad when these children are hiding from their parents what they eat.
Also, I think the "spoiled" thing refers to the fact that it's only our considerable wealth that sometimes makes the vegan lifestyle plausible, and that lots of people have to eat whatever they can get. Again, not that I'm agreeing with the sentiment, but I'm pretty sure that's the idea behind it.
yes,this is pretty much what I meant.

Should we glut ourselves on any and all available foods just so that we can say we've taken advantage of our opportunities? (As if U.S. obesity rates aren't high enough)
We should eat what our bodies need.Nature created us omnivorous,so should we go against it?Oh,and meat and obesity has nothing in common. ;)
Spoilt!!!
oh,sorry,my bad! :/

ravenlova89

03-11-12, 08:30 AM

I could be a vegetarian, but I think veganism is silly....milk doesn't harm the cow, and even though some might not do it to "protect animals", I'm not giving up something simply because it has eggs in it: cake, etc

ravenlova89

03-11-12, 08:31 AM

I am aware that veganism is probably not a a word haha

Miss Vicky

03-11-12, 10:35 AM

yes,but there's world outside America too where food animals don't attack people and are dependent on them.And if you think that all food animals can survive in the nature,some of them definitely would come back to farms and steal food from them.This would cause a huge commotion.So I don't think that it's a good idea for human to become vegans. ;)

Who said anything about attacking people or that all food animals can survive on their own? You said they can't, I provided evidence that - at least in the case of pigs and chickens - they can and do and they've become a problem in many countries. In fact, there are very few domestic animals that are unable to survive without humans. Actually the only one that comes to mind is the domestic turkey, or at least the kind raised in commercial farms, and that's only because their bodies have been bred to be so disproportionate from their natural state that they've become unable to breed naturally and require artificial insemination.

yes,I am.You think it is normal to hide from your parents what you eat?

Do I think it's normal for a child to lie and break their parents' rules? Absolutely. I certainly did it and I wasn't raised vegetarian. Are you telling me you were a perfect child and never sneaked a piece of candy or something else you weren't supposed to have? How about throwing away or giving away something from your lunch that you didn't want? Kids do those sorts of things all the time.

"The fact that vegans tend to have lower B12 levels than lacto-ovo vegetarians or non-vegetarians is often countered with, "Few vegans have ever shown signs of B12 deficiency." However, most vegans appear to supplement their diet with B12 (often unknowingly through fortified foods) and there have been plenty of vegans who have suffered from B12 deficiency documented in the scientific literature. In some cases, the symptoms have cleared up after taking B12 supplements, but not everyone has been so lucky" - http://veganhealth.org/articles/vitaminb12

Yes, it's possible for people to suffer deficiencies from a vegan or vegetarian diet if done incorrectly (which is why in my previous post in this thread, I stated that if someone is considering adopting a veg lifestyle, they should consult a dietician/nutritionist first so that they aren't making harmful mistakes. The same is true for any parents considering feeding their children a veg diet). It's possible for people to suffer deficiencies on ANY kind of diet if they're not properly balancing what they're eating/supplementing. However, I feel it's wrong to make a blanket statement that vegan/vegetarian parents are harming their children. Such matters should be examined on a case by case basis.

We should eat what our bodies need.Nature created us omnivorous,so should we go against it? Oh,and meat and obesity has nothing in common. ;)

My point was that just because all these foods are available to us doesn't mean we need to eat them. And one person having the opportunity to eat meat and choosing not to does not make them any more spoiled than a person who has the same opportunity and chooses to eat meat. As to the obesity comment, my point was that we shouldn't eat a food just because we can. That kind of mentality is a huge contributor to the obesity epidemic. People need to make more conscious decisions about what and how much food they put in their bodies.

Gabrielle947

03-11-12, 01:46 PM

Do I think it's normal for a child to lie and break their parents' rules? Absolutely. I certainly did it and I wasn't raised vegetarian. Are you telling me you were a perfect child and never sneaked a piece of candy or something else you weren't supposed to have? How about throwing away or giving away something from your lunch that you didn't want? Kids do those sorts of things all the time.
This is different.Kids secretly eat candies because they're tasty,it's like forbidden fruit.Kids secretly eat meat because either their bodies require it or they want to be like other children and eat the same food as everyone else.
However, I feel it's wrong to make a blanket statement that vegan/vegetarian parents are harming their children.
it looks bad for me when child has to eat supplements,because he can't get all the needed vitamins from his food.It's better when all the needed things are gotten from the food.
My point was that just because all these foods are available to us doesn't mean we need to eat them.
and my point was that just because all these food are available to us we shouldn't make our lives harder by restricting ourselves and eating extra 'medicine' when we can be healthy without it.
About animals - my point was that there wouldn't be no use if they were let go(if all people would go vegan).Half of them would die as I still can't understand how would they survive along with wolves,bear,foxes and other same type animals.And another half would attack farms and people.

As to the obesity comment, my point was that we shouldn't eat a food just because we can. That kind of mentality is a huge contributor to the obesity epidemic.
Eating everything is good,but people should do it moderately.The biggest problem is that people tend to eat too much. ;)

wintertriangles

03-11-12, 01:50 PM

My point was that just because all these foods are available to us doesn't mean we need to eat them. And one person having the opportunity to eat meat and choosing not to does not make them any more spoiled than a person who has the same opportunity and chooses to eat meat. As to the obesity comment, my point was that we shouldn't eat a food just because we can. That kind of mentality is a huge contributor to the obesity epidemic. People need to make more conscious decisions about what and how much food they put in their bodies.This is completely mutually exclusive from the topic. But if you really want to bang that pole then fine, just because there's plants doesn't mean we need to eat those either.

Miss Vicky

03-11-12, 02:51 PM

This is different.Kids secretly eat candies because they're tasty,it's like forbidden fruit.Kids secretly eat meat because either their bodies require it or they want to be like other children and eat the same food as everyone else.

Meat is pretty darn tasty, too and I would imagine would have the same "forbidden fruit" quality to it for a child raised in a vegetarian household. Just like I'm sure eating certain kinds of meat or other foods that are prohibited by religious doctrine would have that quality or have the appeal of "eating the same food as everyone else." Again, this doesn't mean that the child is suffering harm because of the dietary restrictions their parents place on them.

And speaking from my own experiences going to school (and also working for the school district for a time afterward), "eating the same foods as everybody else" meant drinking enormous amounts of sugary, caffeinated soda, and eating things like Taco Bell, Chick-Fil-A and pizza - all of which were sold on campus. I'd rather see a child eating a vegetarian diet and the right supplements than eating a diet like my peers did.

and my point was that just because all these food are available to us we shouldn't make our lives harder by restricting ourselves and eating extra 'medicine' when we can be healthy without it.

I hardly see swallowing a pill every day as causing someone's life to be 'harder.' In any case, people should be restricting themselves and "making their lives harder" when it comes to their diet. People should be making their lives harder by cooking their own food from fresh sources instead of buying from fast food places or purchasing pre-packaged foods from the store. People should be eating leaner protein sources, fewer carbohydrates, less processed foods, less sodium, less fat, and more fiber. But they often don't. Why? Because it's easier not to. People taking the easy way out is the reason why, in the 2.7 miles it took me to get from my home to the bowling alley this morning, I passed directly by or very near to at least 15 different fast food restaurants, diners, and pizzarias (and I do not live in a big city).

I'm not saying people should be vegetarian. I'm not a vegetarian. Things like steak, hamburgers, and bacon are among my favorite foods. But it really irks me when people on either side of the issue try to say that everybody should make the same choice as them. If eating meat is the right choice for you, great. Keep eating meat. But that doesn't make it the right choice for everybody else.

Gabrielle947

03-11-12, 03:51 PM

Again, this doesn't mean that the child is suffering harm because of the dietary restrictions their parents place on them.
still,kids shouldn't hide what they eat from their parents.It often happens,so we think that it's normal,but it isn't.
And speaking from my own experiences going to school (and also working for the school district for a time afterward), "eating the same foods as everybody else" meant drinking enormous amounts of sugary, caffeinated soda, and eating things like Taco Bell, Chick-Fil-A and pizza - all of which were sold on campus. I'd rather see a child eating a vegetarian diet and the right supplements than eating a diet like my peers did.
not sure where do you live,but in our canteen all you can find are rolls,some dietary bars,steaks,pancakes,chicken,fish,tea,and some sweets(not sure how to call them).So it would be very hard for a vegetarian to eat well in my canteen,because all the normal food (excluding rolls and various snacks) contains meat.
In any case, people should be restricting themselves and "making their lives harder" when it comes to their diet.
it shouldn't be a restriction,this should become a normal lifestyle. ;)

Miss Vicky

03-11-12, 04:09 PM

still,kids shouldn't hide what they eat from their parents.It often happens,so we think that it's normal,but it isn't.

I think we're using two different definitions of the word "normal": yours being based upon what should happen and mine being based on what actually does happen.

not sure where do you live,but in our canteen all you can find are rolls,some dietary bars,steaks,pancakes,chicken,fish,tea,and some sweets(not sure how to call them).So it would be very hard for a vegetarian to eat well in my canteen,because all the normal food (excluding rolls and various snacks) contains meat.

The vast majority of the foods served at the schools I attended contained meat, too, but they were far from healthy or balanced. In addition to the fast food vendors that were allowed to sell on campus, the cafeteria itself served high fat and high sodium items like hamburgers, hot dogs, potato chips and pizza. So I stand by my statement that I'd rather see a child being fed a vegetarian diet with the proper supplementation than eating what my schools served.

it shouldn't be a restriction,this should become a normal lifestyle. ;)

I agree, but again, what should be and what actually is are not the same.

Powderfinger

03-13-12, 05:27 AM

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/03/12/eating-too-much-red-meat-can-kill_n_1339428.html

Here you go! ;)

chrisv24

03-28-12, 05:00 PM

Im a non vegetarian. I have to admit that whenever we have a vegetarian round for dinner my mum gets annoyed as they always have to have a separate dish.

nebbit

03-28-12, 06:59 PM

Im a non vegetarian. I have to admit that whenever we have a vegetarian round for dinner my mum gets annoyed as they always have to have a separate dish. K
In my house the meat eaters have to have a separate dish :yup:

Powderfinger

03-28-12, 07:47 PM

In my house the meat eaters have to have a separate dish :yup:

When I was about 14, my sister cooked this meal. I asked her "what's in this? It tastes really good!" My sister said "there's no meat in it!" I was really *issed off ;) The bad thing though, I really liked it :D

pinkyd

04-06-12, 06:11 AM

vegetarian

Used Future

04-06-12, 10:00 AM

Omnivore.

Love meat, love vegetables.

Love good vegetarian cooking, but Sundays just wouldn't be the same without a roast chicken and some paxo.

Sedai

04-06-12, 10:31 AM

Omnivore...but I try not to eat meat everyday....

ashdoc

10-05-13, 04:08 PM

vegetarians make very bad soldiers .

if you cant stand killing of animals then how can you stand killing of humans in war ??

jainism is the only all vegetarian religion in the world . naturally , no jain ever joins the armed forces .

vegetarianism robs you of killer instinct---that's what i have observed .

Yoda

10-05-13, 04:09 PM

if you cant stand killing of animals then how can you stand killing of humans in war ??
Because the killing of animals is not, strictly speaking, crucial for survival. The killing of other humans may be, or may be done as an indirect form of self-defense, or to preserve some other ideal. I think it's the largely elective nature of eating meat that most vegetarians object to.

I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't think there's an inherent conflict here.

ashdoc

10-05-13, 04:22 PM

Because the killing of animals is not, strictly speaking, crucial for survival. The killing of other humans may be, or may be done as an indirect form of self-defense, or to preserve some other ideal. I think it's the largely elective nature of eating meat that most vegetarians object to.

I'm not a vegetarian, but I don't think there's an inherent conflict here.

my country ( india ) has a lot of vegetarians ( about 30 percent of indians are veggies ) and most of them are cowards .

when i was in medical college , many of these veggies used to faint while dissecting bodies in the anatomy dissection hall .

vegetarianism naturally leads to effeteness and an overly pacifist attitude .

Skepsis93

10-05-13, 04:40 PM

Damn, that must have been some task, meeting and judging the cowardliness/otherwise of the (according to you) 363 million plus Indian vegetarians.

The Gunslinger45

10-05-13, 05:14 PM

I am not a vegetarian. In fact I am debating getting a steak today.

Sexy Celebrity

10-05-13, 05:39 PM

I am not a vegetarian. In fact I am debating getting a steak today.

Would you like a cake? I've got a lot of lard laying around.

Frightened Inmate No. 2

10-05-13, 06:11 PM

I'm not a vegetarian, but this thread is kind of sickening. The hilarious thing is that you have people saying things like "vegetarians try to force their opinions on everyone else" and then you have people who say that they are actually mad at vegetarians. My sister and mom have both been vegetarians for about 2 years now, and they have not had any health problems. In fact, my mom has said that her wrist used to hurt all the time, and she hasn't felt it since she stopped eating meat. I know several other vegetarians who have had no problems, and I don't know a vegetarian who has. It's also been proven that vegetarians live longer on average. How much of that is from vegetarianism is still up for debate, but in this day and age, it's pretty ridiculous to say that vegetarians aren't healthy. Yes, vegetarianism can cause problems, but if you're not stupid about it and you aren't an incredibly picky eater (which I am) then you can easily be just as healthy as a meat-eater.

Also, that story about the kid who couldn't eat meat at home so he snuck it at school is a completely bullsh!t argument. Yes, those parents are awful, but I'm sure you could find several more stories about parents who wouldn't let their child become a vegetarian, but that isn't reported on because nobody cares about vegetarians. You can't just use little pieces of anecdotal evidence of a vegetarian being bad to prove that all vegetarians are bad. And yeah, as Miss Vicky said, I would much rather have my kid be a vegetarian than eating the crap food they have at schools.

And anyone who says that there is no moral basis for not eating meat is an idiot. Harmless animals are dying for your pleasure. You don't have to eat meat, but you are, at the expense of innocent lives. Yeah "it's just a dumb animal and they're tasty," but that doesn't mean killing them for pleasure isn't awful. And yes, it is basically just for pleasure. You can live a good life without it, as I explained earlier, but you like the taste. They feel pain. They don't enjoy dying just so you can have a marginally better taste in your mouth. Who cares if they''re ugly? You're ugly. Does that mean it's okay to kill you? No, because I'm not a cruel person who determines an animals worth based on how cute they look. Not to mention the horrible conditions they have to live in before they're slaughtered, which I hope nobody needs to be convinced is awful.

I don't even think I need to address the kids in Africa argument. If you don't see how that's really f**king stupid, there's something wrong with you.

Again, I'm not a vegetarian, and I'm not trying to convince you to become one, believe it or not. If you are one, that's great for you, and I do recommend it to everyone. Usually I would be more sympathetic to meat-eaters, but this thread got me really pissed off, and I hate the way that "animal rights activist" has become a dirty word.

The Rodent

10-05-13, 06:17 PM

The only problem with Vegetarians is they always need help crossing roads, getting in and out of chairs, up and down stairs and lifting anything that weighs more than a shoebox.

The Rodent

10-05-13, 06:19 PM

If Vegetarians love animals so much, why do they always keep eating the animals' food?

The Rodent

10-05-13, 06:21 PM

I'd hate to be a Vegetarian around Christmastime.

Imagine how crap Christmas would be when you don't have any friends...

Skepsis93

10-05-13, 06:23 PM

Rodent, how many vegetarians have you met in your lifetime? One? Either you're joking or wildly ignorant. Hope it's the former.

Mmmm Donuts

10-05-13, 06:24 PM

Oh Rodent, the quality of your sarcasm is too damn high.

The Rodent

10-05-13, 06:25 PM

Yeah I'm joking.

I know a few Veggies though and I always rip them about it.

The Rodent

10-05-13, 06:31 PM

How many vegans does it take to change a lightbulb?

Two, one to change it and one to check for animal ingredients.

The Rodent

10-05-13, 06:32 PM

Why does vegan cheese taste bad?

It hasn't been tested on mice.

The Rodent

10-05-13, 06:34 PM

If "Vegan" means no eggs and no milk...

... how do they bread their steak?

Skepsis93

10-05-13, 06:34 PM

Honestly, I'm probably the last person who should comment on this issue because I'm a total hypocrite when it comes to the vegetarian debate. I battle with the moral issues on a regular basis, most of my family are vegetarian, but there's something about that glorious meat that makes me want to keep shovelling it down. I feel better when I'm at home because I can separate myself from it - my mom only cooks veggie meals so I'll only have meat when I'm out - but when I have to feed myself it's a total clusterf**k. A regular mix of delicious satisfaction and pure guilt. I'm disgusting.

Mmmm Donuts

10-05-13, 06:35 PM

Mouse...Rodent. I get it now!

The Rodent

10-05-13, 06:35 PM

What do vegetarian Zombies eat?

Graaiiins!!!

Miss Vicky

10-05-13, 06:36 PM

Rodent's jokes:

http://www.angelfire.com/music6/walteregan/MoFoPics/joaqdisapproves.gif

Skepsis93

10-05-13, 06:36 PM

Veganism, by the way, is something I'm pretty sure I don't understand aside from for medical reasons (and even then I'm fuzzy). There's plenty of ways to make sure the animal that has so kindly provided your milk/cheese/whatever has been humanely, non-fatally treated.

Mmmm Donuts

10-05-13, 06:37 PM

99 ways to treat cows humanely, but McDonald's knows none!

The Rodent

10-05-13, 06:38 PM

Honestly and seriously though, there are times when I run out of meat and end up eating beans and peas, other veg etc all curried up and tasting great... and I always find I'm hungry again within 30 minutes of eating.

Sexy Celebrity

10-05-13, 06:38 PM

They say eating meat brings on heart attacks.

The Rodent

10-05-13, 06:39 PM

99 ways to treat cows humanely, but McDonald's knows none!

McD's don't use meat though. It's all floor sweepings and sawdust with an OXO Cube added for flavour.

Sexy Celebrity

10-05-13, 06:41 PM

What do vegetarian Zombies eat?

Graaiiins!!!

Oh, please. No such thing as a vegetarian zombie. They don't have the energy to crawl out of their coffin and dig through the earth and walk around. You've gotta eat meat while alive to do that.

The Rodent

10-05-13, 06:42 PM

They say eating meat brings on heart attacks.

I heard that too.

I eat a red meat diet. Think I've mentioned this before.

Beef... every night for dinner. Have done for 10 years or more.

I had a blood test not long ago and my cholesterol is near nothing and my body fat and general weight hasn't gone up or down at all.

It's all in the preparation.

Sexy Celebrity

10-05-13, 06:44 PM

You also have a diet high in Young Guns.

Thursday Next

10-05-13, 07:07 PM

Oh, please. No such thing as a vegetarian zombie. They don't have the energy to crawl out of their coffin and dig through the earth and walk around. You've gotta eat meat while alive to do that.

Meat doesn't give you energy. Meat is protein. Carbohydrates give you energy.

No zombies have any energy anyway, it's why they all move so slowly.

Yoda

10-05-13, 09:40 PM

my country ( india ) has a lot of vegetarians ( about 30 percent of indians are veggies ) and most of them are cowards .

when i was in medical college , many of these veggies used to faint while dissecting bodies in the anatomy dissection hall .

vegetarianism naturally leads to effeteness and an overly pacifist attitude .
There are scads of logical flaws here.

For one, you're extrapolating your own personal experiences to a very large group of people. Perhaps you attract these people, or your own biases cause you to note these things about them while disregarding or deemphasize exceptions (IE: confirmation bias).

For another, you assume that because you've seen vegetarians faint during dissection (small sample size problems abound here) that one must cause the other, when it's just as reasonable to assume that they have a common source. It's pretty unlikely that the people you're thinking of are going to transform their personalities by eating meat.

The Gunslinger45

10-05-13, 10:30 PM

Would you like a cake? I've got a lot of lard laying around.

No thanks. The steak was delicious!

Godoggo

10-06-13, 12:13 AM

I've been eating a vegan diet for a few months now. I don't miss meat at all, but I do occasionally crave yogurt even though it's not one of my favorite foods. I still have to buy meat and eggs at the grocery for the dogs, but they get plenty of fresh veggies as well.

I try to grow my own veggies and herbs as much as possible. Unfortunately, as much as I love asparagus that's something I'll never attempt. The first crop takes roughly three years.

ashdoc

10-06-13, 01:02 AM

There are scads of logical flaws here.

For one, you're extrapolating your own personal experiences to a very large group of people. Perhaps you attract these people, or your own biases cause you to note these things about them while disregarding or deemphasize exceptions (IE: confirmation bias).

For another, you assume that because you've seen vegetarians faint during dissection (small sample size problems abound here) that one must cause the other, when it's just as reasonable to assume that they have a common source. It's pretty unlikely that the people you're thinking of are going to transform their personalities by eating meat.

no , sample size is not small . i have lived in india all my life and met countless vegetarians .

remember india is 30 to 40 percent vegetarian .

Sexy Celebrity

10-06-13, 01:23 AM

I still have to buy meat and eggs at the grocery for the dogs, but they get plenty of fresh veggies as well.

You feed your dogs real food?

Specifically - EGGS?

You know, I read somewhere that eggs are as bad as cigarettes.

Yoda

10-06-13, 01:51 PM

no , sample size is not small . i have lived in india all my life and met countless vegetarians .

remember india is 30 to 40 percent vegetarian .
The sample of vegetarians is not small; it's the sample of those you have any firsthand knowledge of that's small. You've met a fraction of these people. And you've probably only gotten to know a fraction of a fraction. And you've probably only seen a fraction of a fraction of a fraction actually dissect things. So the things you're using to come to your conclusion--which are already a leap in logic themselves--are, indeed, based on a very small sample size.

And, again, even if this were not the case, it would do nothing to establish causality, only correlation.

Powdered Water

10-06-13, 02:35 PM

Godoggo

10-06-13, 02:39 PM

You feed your dogs real food?

Specifically - EGGS?

You know, I read somewhere that eggs are as bad as cigarettes.

I don't know where you read that and if it related to dogs or humans, but raw eggs have many nutritional benefits for dogs. They are high in fat so I feed accordingly, but that's the great thing about the way that I feed. I can tailor each diet to my dog's specific needs. I've studied dog nutrition for about six years and there's a lot of misinformation about feeding raw eggs to dogs, but I've done my research and I'm pro egg.

Godoggo

10-06-13, 02:46 PM

I didn't think I would. But, I absolutely love vegetables. The whole vegetarian non vegetarian thing is a bit of a problem for me. As I believe that all the corn syrup and processed foods is what's really the biggest problem

Exactly. And not only obesity. I believe a whole lot of other problems are exacerbated by a poor diet. Everything from good skin to mental health can be helped from eating right and that means lots and lots of fresh veggies.

Miss Vicky

10-06-13, 02:47 PM

That pyramid's all well and good, but realistically there's no way I could see myself ever adhering to that kind of diet for more than a few days.

That said, I'm about to go out for lunch and get myself a nice sirloin, some mashed potatoes and gravy, green beans, sourdough biscuits, and some chicken pot pie soup.

Sexy Celebrity

10-06-13, 03:14 PM

I could live off eggplant and mushrooms. Though, if someone threw a chicken bone at me, I wouldn't complain.

Sexy Celebrity

10-06-13, 03:20 PM

I don't know where you read that and if it related to dogs or humans, but raw eggs have many nutritional benefits for dogs. They are high in fat so I feed accordingly, but that's the great thing about the way that I feed. I can tailor each diet to my dog's specific needs. I've studied dog nutrition for about six years and there's a lot of misinformation about feeding raw eggs to dogs, but I've done my research and I'm pro egg.

It was something I read in regards to humans.

I had just never ever heard of feeding eggs to a dog. I've seen and fed vegetables to a dog, but never eggs.

I think eating eggs and bacon for breakfast is probably unhealthy. Of course I eat it occasionally, though. It's not like I wake up and go, "Boy, I sure could use some asparagus right now!"

Sexy Celebrity

10-06-13, 03:25 PM

Whoever has a heart attack first from this message board -- that's who you don't listen to.

Sexy Celebrity

10-06-13, 03:27 PM

That said, I'm about to go out for lunch and get myself a nice sirloin, some mashed potatoes and gravy, green beans, sourdough biscuits, and some chicken pot pie soup.

You don't need that chicken pot pie soup.

You don't need that gravy on those mashed potatoes, either.

I ain't gonna talk anybody out of a sirloin steak, and I hope you enjoy your meal, but chicken pot pie soup? Sourdough biscuits? Put those back!

Sexy Celebrity

10-06-13, 03:34 PM

http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=11459&stc=1&d=1381084449

Powdered Water

10-06-13, 04:57 PM

That pyramid's all well and good, but realistically there's no way I could see myself ever adhering to that kind of diet for more than a few days.

Well thanks for that. Enjoy your poor health! It never ceases to amaze me how sure people are of that something new could never work for them simply because they just can't "see themselves doing it". That's too bad.

Sexy Celebrity

10-06-13, 05:01 PM

Miss Vicky is STUBBORN! She's more stubborn than me. You can't talk her into anything.

Her answer is always, ".... NO! Watch Quills!"

Miss Vicky

10-06-13, 05:15 PM

Well thanks for that. Enjoy your poor health! It never ceases to amaze me how sure people are of that something new could never work for them simply because they just can't "see themselves doing it". That's too bad.

I have struggled severely with making far less drastic changes to my diet and overall lifestyle than doing what you're suggesting. It's experience that tells me that in all likelihood I wouldn't stick with the program - not just laziness or apathy.

And you know what? The steak was damn good. So were the soup and biscuits, though I opted for vegetables instead of the mashed potatoes and gravy. There's still about half the steak and a good portion of veggies left for another meal, too.

It was also a particularly satisfying meal since I spent this morning walking 12.5 miles and playing ten games of bowling. It's the first time I've had a meal like that in many months. It's not like I make it a habit.

Sexy Celebrity

10-06-13, 05:16 PM

Hey, at least she said no to the mashed potatoes and gravy. She listened to me somewhat.

Sexy Celebrity

10-06-13, 05:20 PM

Miss Vicky probably doesn't even eat like I do, though. I sure wouldn't leave behind half a steak.

Miss Vicky

10-06-13, 05:22 PM

Miss Vicky probably doesn't even eat like I do, though. I sure wouldn't leave behind half a steak.

It was a 10 oz steak, so I ate a significant portion of it - plus the soup, bread, veggies and beans. I didn't finish the steak because I simply couldn't finish it. The rest of it will be dinner tomorrow.

Sexy Celebrity

10-06-13, 05:24 PM

A 10 oz. steak is like an appetizer to me. I don't really enjoy ordering steak when I go out because it just doesn't feel like enough of a meal.

Miss Vicky

10-06-13, 05:28 PM

Wow. Okay, yeah, I don't eat like you do.

And I rarely eat steak. The place I went to is my favorite steakhouse and - to give you an idea of how infrequently I eat like this - I paid for the meal with a gift card I received for Christmas last year.

Mmmm Donuts

10-06-13, 05:28 PM

A 10 oz. steak is like an appetizer to me. I don't really enjoy ordering steak when I go out because it just doesn't feel like enough of a meal.

You're scaring me, Sexy.

Sexy Celebrity

10-06-13, 05:29 PM

What steakhouse was it? I'm curious.

Sexy Celebrity

10-06-13, 05:31 PM

You're scaring me, Sexy.

I like to get prime rib. A big piece of prime rib. I like it at a place called Logan's Roadhouse (http://www.logansroadhouse.com). That to me is a good piece of meat.

Miss Vicky

10-06-13, 05:33 PM

What steakhouse was it? I'm curious.

Tahoe Joe's. I think they only have locations in Northern California, though. I like them because their steaks are super thick and their soup is excellent.

http://www.tahoejoes.com/

Sexy Celebrity

10-06-13, 05:34 PM

Yeah, that prime rib I get is 20 oz.

Miss Vicky

10-06-13, 05:34 PM

Yeah, that prime rib I get is 20 oz.

Holy ****.

Sexy Celebrity

10-06-13, 05:36 PM

The Gunslinger45

10-06-13, 07:11 PM

I like to get prime rib. A big piece of prime rib. I like it at a place called Logan's Roadhouse (http://www.logansroadhouse.com). That to me is a good piece of meat.

I like Texas Roadhouse and Saltgrass Steak House myself. But there is a Logan's where I am. Never been there though.

Powdered Water

10-06-13, 07:19 PM

Mmmmmmm gonna have a huge bowl of red-hot spicy collard greens and kale here in a few. There are quite a few people out there that think these leafy green veggies may be the real cure for cancer.

Miss Vicky

10-06-13, 10:06 PM

I like Texas Roadhouse and Saltgrass Steak House myself. But there is a Logan's where I am. Never been there though.

We have a Texas Roadhouse here and I don't care for their steak at all. It's too thin. The "atmosphere" is horrible also - tacky decor, country music played too loud, and the serving staff line dancing in the aisles. :rolleyes:

Their bread is awesome though.

The Gunslinger45

10-06-13, 10:09 PM

We have a Texas Roadhouse here and I don't care for their steak at all. It's too thin. The "atmosphere" is horrible also - tacky decor, country music played too loud, and the serving staff line dancing in the aisles. :rolleyes:

Their bread is awesome though.

The steaks here are thick as hell. But that might just be because it is in Texas. And I happen to like the roadhouse atmosphere myself. :D

The Rodent

10-06-13, 10:18 PM

I didn't think I would. But, I absolutely love vegetables. The whole vegetarian non vegetarian thing is a bit of a problem for me. As I believe that all the corn syrup and processed foods is what's really the biggest problem in our countries downward spiral into obesity. If you follow the pyramid and basically cut out any and all processed foods you can really change your health. It takes a ton of work though. You basically have to start your life and kitchen over from scratch.

This is really all you need to know if you want to completely change your health and your weight. This pyramid can save your life.

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc242/Powderedwater96/pyramid_zps8c9b7957.gif

It's so incredibly easy to get your calories and proteins from rich leafy vegetables, it's literally not funny.

I don't get that pic... it reckons fish twice a week and avoid eggs, yet in the UK, eating fish and eggs is something Health Experts keep ramming into our heads. Eat fish eat fish eat fish. Eggs are good eggs are good eggs are good

It also says sugar is low in Calories. Eh? Foods high in sugar have been shown to increase weight just as much as fatty foods.
And also that flour is low in nutrients. Eh? Why then is bread such a staple food in a healthy diet?

It also says Beans and Legumes are an unlimited food-source to be eaten as much as possible.
Yet in a lot of health pages... Peas, Beans and so on are rammed with death dealing carbohydrates and are just as bad as eating lard sandwiches.

Miss Vicky

10-06-13, 10:32 PM

What? Why are you questioning this, Rodent? Don't you know that Dr. Fuhrman has all the answers?! Jeez. Enjoy your poor health!

Godoggo

10-06-13, 10:40 PM

I had a large pizza yesterday. A large mushroom pizza. Ate it all in practically 20 minutes. I'd say I could do one of those contests where people eat a large amount of stuff really fast, but I doubt I could truly do that much. No way do I wanna eat 50 hot dogs in 5 minutes.

Do they keep that stuff down? I've seen some of the winners and they are quite skinny and apparently you have to train for it. I don't know anything about it, but I wondered if they did some sort of "cleansing" thing afterwords.

The Rodent

10-06-13, 10:43 PM

Lol! My point really is that it's all crap. All these health advice pages and diagrams and all these so called experts.

To me, it's just common knowledge that fatty food cooked in deep fat fryers is bad. Veg and natural stuff and meat is good for you.

There's all this stuff about beef and red meat, yet I've lived on a beef diet for a decade and I'm perfectly fit and strong.

Yeah, beef or minced beef can be really bad for you... if you fry it... which is how 99.9% of people cook the stuff.

Veg can be bad as well... if you fry it.
I have Indian relatives, my Brother's wife. She's a vegetarian, yet her health isn't great because she fries everything.

Eat what you want, I say... just prepare it healthily.

I boil my minced beef.
I never add salt or oil of any kind to anything before, during or after cooking.
I add flavour by using herbs, spices, onions and garlic etc to the pot of boiling mince. Hey presto, enough decent and healthily prepared food to last a couple days.

Turmeric is good as well. It's a natural preservative, it's good for cancers and also cleans the blood in the same way that garlic does.

Again though, it's all boiled. Never fried or dried out in an oven. The good thing with boiling also, is that once the beef has been boiled through, if the beef was of a relatively low quality, the oil from the meat floats to the top and you can skim it off with a spoon.

mark f

10-06-13, 11:03 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFJopF6WJNw

honeykid

10-07-13, 01:33 AM

The "atmosphere" is horrible also - tacky decor, country music played too loud
TBF, if you can hear country music it's too loud.

and the serving staff line dancing in the aisles.
And this ensures I don't step foot in the place.

Their bread is awesome though.
I believe the phrase I'm looking for is "damning with faint praise." :D

Sexy Celebrity

10-07-13, 02:19 AM

We have a Texas Roadhouse here and I don't care for their steak at all. It's too thin. The "atmosphere" is horrible also - tacky decor, country music played too loud, and the serving staff line dancing in the aisles. :rolleyes:

My problem with these steakhouses are the F**KING PEANUTS ALL OVER THE DAMN FLOOR! Logan's has this problem, too, I believe, but it's something I also remember about Texas Roadhouse when I used to go to it. They just toss their peanut shells right on the floor! How disgusting. How messy. I don't see how more people don't trip and sue the place.

The Rodent

10-07-13, 02:21 AM

Those bar nuts are disgusting anyway.

I saw on TV once where they took some samples from those bowls of nuts on the bar and tested them. Apparently there was more faeces and urine in them than actual peanuts :D

All from patrons not washing their hands after going to the toilet then dipping their hands into the bowls.
Ugh.

Sexy Celebrity

10-07-13, 06:19 AM

Sexy Celebrity

10-07-13, 06:20 AM

Do they keep that stuff down? I've seen some of the winners and they are quite skinny and apparently you have to train for it. I don't know anything about it, but I wondered if they did some sort of "cleansing" thing afterwords.

I have no idea what they do....

Powdered Water

10-07-13, 10:00 PM

I don't get that pic... it reckons fish twice a week and avoid eggs, yet in the UK, eating fish and eggs is something Health Experts keep ramming into our heads. Eat fish eat fish eat fish. Eggs are good eggs are good eggs are good

It also says sugar is low in Calories. Eh? Foods high in sugar have been shown to increase weight just as much as fatty foods.
And also that flour is low in nutrients. Eh? Why then is bread such a staple food in a healthy diet?

It also says Beans and Legumes are an unlimited food-source to be eaten as much as possible.
Yet in a lot of health pages... Peas, Beans and so on are rammed with death dealing carbohydrates and are just as bad as eating lard sandwiches.

I don't know where you get your info but wow. Just so much bad info out there. Hey look, I get it, it's not for everybody. I wouldn't knock it until you try it though. But c'mon. Beans are bad for you? All beans are bad for you if you don't cook them. Jesus, some will just flat kill you.

teeter_g

10-07-13, 10:25 PM

Vegetables are the things that food eats.....

MovieGal

10-07-13, 10:36 PM

Im non-vegetarian. I love meat to much. Mainly steak.

I enjoy vegetables but I prefer them raw to cooked (some must be cooked). However, I am a meat and bread person. If I had to become vegetarian, I dont think it would be that much of an issue. I do not prefer sauces or condiments on my food. Ugh, no salad dressing, mustard, ketchup or anything like that. If you want a good salad dressing that is healthy, use the seeds and juice from the tomato. Some say to use lemon but I would prefer lime to lemon and that might not be very good on salads.

Sexy Celebrity

10-07-13, 11:51 PM

ashdoc

10-13-13, 05:49 PM

The sample of vegetarians is not small; it's the sample of those you have any firsthand knowledge of that's small. You've met a fraction of these people. And you've probably only gotten to know a fraction of a fraction. And you've probably only seen a fraction of a fraction of a fraction actually dissect things. So the things you're using to come to your conclusion--which are already a leap in logic themselves--are, indeed, based on a very small sample size.

And, again, even if this were not the case, it would do nothing to establish causality, only correlation.

let me repeat that very few vegetarians join the armed forces---which is a strong indicator that they avoid fighting .

Sexy Celebrity

10-13-13, 05:54 PM

let me repeat that very few vegetarians join the armed forces---which is a strong indicator that they avoid fighting .

This one's for Rodent --- they don't have the strength to fight.

Skepsis93

10-13-13, 05:56 PM

let me repeat that very few vegetarians join the armed forces---which is a strong indicator that they avoid fighting .

Source?

Sexy Celebrity

10-13-13, 05:58 PM

Well, it makes sense -- if you're against eating animals, you should be against killing people.

MovieGal

10-13-13, 06:00 PM

This is news to me. How can beans kill you?

from searching the net...if beans are under cooked... they can do damage.

http://www.wikihow.com/Avoid-Food-Poisoning-from-Undercooked-Beans

Skepsis93

10-13-13, 06:00 PM

You think people join the army because they're for killing people?

The Rodent

10-13-13, 06:01 PM

I don't know where you get your info but wow. Just so much bad info out there. Hey look, I get it, it's not for everybody. I wouldn't knock it until you try it though. But c'mon. Beans are bad for you? All beans are bad for you if you don't cook them. Jesus, some will just flat kill you.

Ah, I was just elaborating on the pic. I eat beans all the time. I basically live off them and red meat, namely beef. It's all I eat.

I was just on about Health advices always having different ideas of what is good and bad.
That pic says Beans are great... other pages and advices say Beans are full of death dealing carbs and should be avoided like the plague.

It's all hokum. I tend not to bother taking advice from apparent Health Experts.
I make my own judgments by educating myself on the biology of what I'm eating by actually studying myself, rather than rely on second or even third-hand information from a person/webpage/so-called-expert when I don't even know their credentials let alone their experiences.

This is news to me. How can beans kill you?

Kidney Beans can actually kill if they aren't cooked properly. They contain a toxin.
If you just warm them through, it actually makes the toxin worse... but if you boil the sh*t out of them, that will kill the toxin off and make them safe to eat.

Haricot Beans, they're the same beans you find in that watery tomato sauce in a can of Baked Beans... if you eat them raw straight off the vine or just warm them through a bit, straight from the vine, you can end up extremely ill even hospitalised, which is why tins of Baked Beans and tins of Haricot Beans in water are already cooked through before they get packaged and sent off to the shops.

Sexy Celebrity

10-13-13, 06:02 PM

You think people join the army because they want to kill people?

I'm just saying if you're vegan and you don't join the army, it's one less thing to worry about.

ashdoc

10-13-13, 06:04 PM

Source?

it is a well known fact in india that those indian communities that eat only veg food ( like gujaratis or marwadis ) do not join the armed forces .

Sexy Celebrity

10-13-13, 06:04 PM

Oh my god, I wouldn't eat beans at all then. Just to be on the safe side.

The Rodent

10-13-13, 06:06 PM

Beans that come in tins are ok. They've already been cooked to death.

Eating raw beans or beans that have been just gently warmed through without a proper blast in boiling water is dangerous.

Sexy Celebrity

10-13-13, 06:07 PM

Glad I know that now. You never know with me -- I coulda swallowed a few raw beans and POOF! Gone.

The Rodent

10-13-13, 06:11 PM

Peas are ok. You can eat them straight off the plant.

It's the Phaseolus Vulgaris, Legume and Pulse types you have to watch.

Sexy Celebrity

10-13-13, 06:12 PM

Good because I've always been crazy for peas.

Sexy Celebrity

10-13-13, 06:13 PM

I also love a good lentil soup.

The Rodent

10-13-13, 06:14 PM

Lentils are part of Legume... make sure you cook them properly.

Sexy Celebrity

10-13-13, 06:16 PM

Lentils are part of Legume... make sure you cook them properly.

Oh, please, I just buy cans of Progresso whenever it's on sale.

http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=11511&stc=1&d=1381698955

The Rodent

10-13-13, 06:17 PM

They'll be ok, they're already cooked to hell in the factory to make them safe.

Sexy Celebrity

10-13-13, 06:19 PM

I know. I like my factories. My little lentil factories.

The Rodent

10-13-13, 06:20 PM

I got ill once from eating lentils.

We were making lentil soup in Home Economics at school and the teacher had prepared the lentils the night before so we could use them.

But, as usual, the teacher was a second rate failed university student and ended up poisoning the whole class because she had no idea what she was actually doing.

Sexy Celebrity

10-13-13, 06:20 PM

They better be okay because sometimes, if I'm in a hurry, I don't even bother with heating up the soup.

Sexy Celebrity

10-13-13, 06:21 PM

The Rodent

10-13-13, 06:24 PM

Skepsis93

10-13-13, 06:24 PM

it is a well known fact in india that those indian communities that eat only veg food ( like gujaratis or marwadis ) do not join the armed forces .

That isn't a source. It's also very specific to India, and I'd speculate that any reason for people in those particular communities to avoid joining the army is down to religious or various other cultural motivations rather than their predominantly vegetarian diet. You're identifying correlation, not causation.

Sexy Celebrity

10-13-13, 06:27 PM

I was only about 12 years old.

Not a nice experience. Stomach cramps so bad you can't stand straight, extreme diarrhoea, vomiting so hard your ribs feel like they're going to crack...

I've never actually eaten lentils since then.

http://www.movieforums.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=11512&stc=1&d=1381699599

Awww. Nurse for Rodent.

The Rodent

10-13-13, 06:28 PM

Skepsis93

10-13-13, 06:30 PM

Sexy Celebrity

10-13-13, 06:30 PM

Vegetarians are all peace loving homosexual tree huggers and don't have a manly bone in their bodies.

1. I eat meat and I'm not a peace loving vegetarian.

2. I may not have a manly bone in my body... but, Rodent, would you help me get one in here? :)

The Rodent

10-13-13, 06:32 PM

I think you're going beyond a joke now SC. It wouldn't stand if a guy said things like that to a girl...

Sexy Celebrity

10-13-13, 06:34 PM

I think you're going beyond a joke now SC. It wouldn't stand if a guy said things like that to a girl...

She wouldn't be a very fun girl, then.

Yoda

10-13-13, 06:35 PM

let me repeat that very few vegetarians join the armed forces---which is a strong indicator that they avoid fighting .
No, it isn't, for all sorts of reasons. The most blatantly obvious is that the causality may flow the other way: that vegetarians are not especially welcome in the armed forces to begin with, and thus they avoid it. Also, you don't appear to have addressed anything I said.

Sorry, but you're employing some really sloppy thinking here. You're not providing any data to support your claims, and the underlying logic is just flat-out broken.

evillemachine

10-15-13, 06:34 PM

I'm a disgusting hypocrite, I'm afraid. I love animals, yet eat meat. I know what I am.

http://becomingpeculiar.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/confessions-of-a-hypocrite-b.jpg

skizzerflake

10-20-13, 01:52 AM

I like pet animals and have never eaten a dog or cat, but when it comes to chickens and pigs, just don't name them. They taste better that way. I could be a vegetarian fairly easily, but I do enjoy meat, especially pork.

The Gunslinger45

10-20-13, 01:55 AM

I live in Texas, and I love steak.

Mr Minio

10-20-13, 05:53 AM

I live in Poland and love pork! I also love soy cutlets as well. See? Even my food taste is eclectic? So hipster... Hahaha.

Dustbunny

10-20-13, 11:05 PM

Non, I love meat and will continue to enjoy it!

ashdoc

10-21-13, 01:21 AM

I think what ashdoc is saying is:

Vegetarians are all peace loving homosexual tree huggers and don't have a manly bone in their bodies.

Real men eat meat, raw, from the Bengal tiger they've just killed with their bare hands.

if you keep eating only veg and say that animals should not be killed then the whole culture becomes one of pacifism .

not surprisingly half veggie india has produced two of the biggest icons of peace---buddha and gandhi .

but it rarely produced a great warrior . india has hardly ever invaded beyond the subcontinent---never produced an alexander or napolean .

Mmmm Donuts

10-21-13, 02:26 AM

2. I may not have a manly bone in my body... but, Rodent, would you help me get one in here? :)

The Man2Man Alliance frowns upon such despicable jokes...

Frightened Inmate No. 2

10-21-13, 10:18 AM

if you keep eating only veg and say that animals should not be killed then the whole culture becomes one of pacifism .

not surprisingly half veggie india has produced two of the biggest icons of peace---buddha and gandhi .

but it rarely produced a great warrior . india has hardly ever invaded beyond the subcontinent---never produced an alexander or napolean .

and we all know there's nothing worse than a peaceful country.

ashdoc

10-21-13, 10:36 AM

and we all know there's nothing worse than a peaceful country.

more correctly , there's nothing worse than a country which can't defend itself .

Skepsis93

10-21-13, 10:40 AM

if you keep eating only veg and say that animals should not be killed then the whole culture becomes one of pacifism .

not surprisingly half veggie india has produced two of the biggest icons of peace---buddha and gandhi .

but it rarely produced a great warrior . india has hardly ever invaded beyond the subcontinent---never produced an alexander or napolean .

Regardless of whether or not your claims are true, what's your point? Are you lamenting your country's culture of pacifism?

ashdoc

10-21-13, 10:41 AM

Regardless of whether or not your claims are true, what's your point? Are you lamenting your country's culture of pacifism?

sure i am...

too much pacifism is not a good thing .

Skepsis93

10-21-13, 10:43 AM

more correctly , there's nothing worse than a country which can't defend itself .

But you're talking about imperialism and invasion, not defence. There's a huge difference.

The Gunslinger45

10-21-13, 02:11 PM

Beef. It is what's for dinner

ashdoc

10-21-13, 03:28 PM

But you're talking about imperialism and invasion, not defence. There's a huge difference.

then let's talk about defence . india's record over the centuries is not great in that .

Frightened Inmate No. 2

10-21-13, 03:49 PM

and it's all because of vegetarians.

ashdoc

10-21-13, 04:29 PM

yes......

Yoda

10-21-13, 04:46 PM

I think you have a poor grasp of correlation and causality; things that coincide can happen for a common reason and not cause each other. I think generalizing on this scale is absurd to begin with, but if you had to do it, it would be much more defensible to say that the people there are a certain way, and that this leads them both to be passive and to be vegetarians; not that vegetarianism causes pacifism, a claim which you seem to have nothing but anecdotal evidence for even if we accept the causal link for which there is also little to no evidence for.

ashdoc

10-21-13, 04:56 PM

one more point...

why are muslims so tough and capable of defending their religion much more than others ??

reason is that they are used to shedding blood much more than others .

while many of us eat nonveg food , most of us eat food killed by the butcher ; we dont go and kill the animal ourselves .

but every year on eid ul azha , every muslim male kills an animal with his own hands , usually a goat . the killing of the goat is done in the most painful method possible for the animal , the halal method in which the animal writhes in agony while it's blood is drained off....

in my opinion seeing all this blood and agony hardens muslims to be capable of killing , and makes them insensitive to shedding of blood .

Yoda

10-21-13, 05:08 PM

Their eating habits are a product of their traditions and religions, not the other way around. Cultures that are Hindu and emphasize the value of life in general are more likely to eat less meat AND fight less. Cultures that generally emphasize things like justice or honor over mercy and kindness, will have different pitfalls to go with their different strengths.

Either way, the food part is almost certainly the end of the causal chain, not the beginning.

Frightened Inmate No. 2

10-21-13, 08:06 PM

I also believe that all cultures should strive to be indifferent to the loss of human life.

mark f

10-21-13, 10:13 PM

You mean strive to not be indifferent. :)

Frightened Inmate No. 2

10-21-13, 10:47 PM

yeah

Mmmm Donuts

10-22-13, 01:24 AM

I'm impressed with anyone who can convert from eating meat to full time vegetarian. I love meat very much, but I hope to be a vegetarian one day. It'll be a big struggle, I know this much.

The Gunslinger45

10-22-13, 08:41 AM

I myself will continue to eat meat, but I am in the process of cutting out fast food from my diet. And cutting out delicious greasy cheeseburgers is going to be tough.

Upton

10-22-13, 11:12 AM

I'm impressed with anyone who can convert from eating meat to full time vegetarian. I love meat very much, but I hope to be a vegetarian one day. It'll be a big struggle, I know this much.

Ya I'd like to go vegan for ethical reasons but it's too much of a commitment for me to give up the convenience especially since I'm now on a very wonky work schedule. Not to mention when I have made the effort to try and cut out animal products in the past it's made me feel weak and tired all the time even when supplementing with other sources of protein/iron/B&D vitamins/etc.

Mr Minio

10-22-13, 02:33 PM

Now that I think of it people have been eating meat for like thousands of years. Troglodytes wouldn't have survived without hunting their prey and still to this day meat is being eaten by a majority of people. Personally, I don't care about what people eat. I just too much love how meat tastes to give it up and I don't have any reason to do so, but if someone loathes meat solely for its taste, let him eat only some plants. But beware, plants also have feelings! You cannot just simply snatch them, it hurts them. Yeah...

Sexy Celebrity

10-22-13, 05:20 PM

When Michelle Obama starts making us Americans eat only food in pill form (complete with lots of water), y'all are gonna regret having missed out on all the meat you could have ate.

I'm not saying you need to be a meataholic, but meat is available, so why not have it every once in awhile? If you really like it, that is.

Eating meat is fun. Don't you ever miss the luxurious sensation of biting off chicken from a chicken breast? The sloppy taste of that BBQ sauce on your pork rib? The sizzle and reddish pink rainbow coming from the inside of a cooked steak? How about the rubberiness of a hot dog or sausage or the thinness of a pepperoni slice or the chewiness and spiciness of a thick piece of ham?

They say you only live once, and here you are in a world where meat is plentiful. Why trap yourself in mealtime bondage when you can break out and eat out at all the meat markets available to you? Don't you want to swallow another hamburger before you die? Don't you want all that fat and grease off as many strips of bacon as you could possibly shove into your secret meat loving mouth? Come on. Go get some meat.