Mad Men fans? [Archive]

honeykid

09-28-10, 11:13 AM

I love Mad Men. I think it's the best programme on TV. Excellent writing, beautifully shot, with amazing attention to detail in every area of its making. I've been with it since episode one and I can't understand why everyone doesn't watch it. In fact, it's so good that it tempted me into downloading something for the first time!

I didn't know that BBC 4 were showing the new season, as we've always had to wait for 6-9 months for the new season, so when I saw that Mad Men was on I just assumed that they were repeats of season 3. It wasn't until a week later, when I had a spare half hour and decided to reminisce that I saw it was an episode I didn't recognise. Went online and, sure enough, it was episode 2 of season 4. :mad: Did anyone over here see BBC 4 advertising the new series of Mad Men? Because I didn't. So, having missed the first and not knowing what'd gone on, I actually went and downloaded something.

Do I download Drew movies? No. Do I download any other show from America that I have to wait for? No. Do I watch Neighbours at Oz speed? No. Did I go and download episode one of Mad Men because I missed it? Yes. That's how good Mad Men is.

Yoda

09-28-10, 12:39 PM

Love me some Mad Men.

It seems silly of me to use sub-headings in this post, but I kind of have to, because it's rambling...

Mad Men Comes Out
Heard about this show when it first came on, sounded promising, but didn't make room for it. By the end of season 1, people were raving. Ditto throughout season 2. At a certain point it'd been recommended by enough people with enough urgency that it was obvious I had to give it a shot at some point, though I was a couple of years behind, so I was kind of invested in waiting and catching up later. And that's precisely what happened.

Someone Gives Me Mad Men
My grandmother asks me what I want for Christmas every year. I'm 26, and I just got married, so I'm hoping she'll stop getting me things now. I've told her every year for quite awhile now that I don't want anything, and she never takes no for an answer, so I invariably ask for some TV season on DVD; usually the next-highest season of The Simpsons that I don't already own. Well, for Christmas, I asked for Mad Men, and lo and behold, they were having a special where she could get season 2 FREE while buying season 1. So she did. Score.

Watching Mad Men
They sat around for months until the then-girlfriend, now-wife and I decided to give them a go and...I didn't love them. I wasn't used to a show where so many things were unspoken, or completely unanswered, or unresolved. Plotlines came and went. We often knew as much about a person's motivation as whatever character they were talking to, and not much more. As often as not, we didn't even know what time it was all taking place in. Things routinely came half-circle.

It stunned me how little was made explicit. I've seen smart shows that don't force-feed all their messages to you, and I've liked many of them, but compared to Mad Men even the subtlest of them seems hamfisted. This show gives you dots, and doesn't do any of the connecting for you. I never realized how much guidance even great, nuanced shows usually give you before I watched Mad Men.

I'm not sure I always like this, but it does make watching it a good deal more challenging, in good ways as well as bad.

There were a few episodes in the first couple of seasons that I really enjoyed, bu the end of the third season is when it all came together for me. I felt as if the first 2.9 seasons had all been building up to those last couple of episodes.

Season 4
Been watching this from the start, having finished the first 3 seasons on DVD shortly beforehand (and watching all of season 3 in about 24 hours). I like it quite a bit; a little uneven at first, but I think the last 4 or so episodes have been top-notch, and I can really feel things building towards the last few episodes of the year.

I'll post more specifics later, probably after each episode. Glad you started this thread, earl. :)

Yoda

10-20-10, 11:29 PM

So, I'll try to make a point to post my thoughts on the finale (and the season/series as a whole) soon -- anyone else have any thoughts about it? It's generating quite a response.

earlsmoviepicks

10-21-10, 02:10 PM

Warning--Spoilers Below!

The finale was awesome. I'm sure this has happened countless thousands of times, that a guy marries his secretary because she's young and pretty, and gushingly caters to him. I love how it puts Don's character off balance, as he was first set up as a rock, with a supposedly stable family and character. And now, he's doing desperate things, like you see happen all the time. And I enjoyed how Peggy was disturbed by it, but Joan naturally accepted the fact that it "happens every day". Most excellent plot direction.

I also love how each season is set in the following year. I hope this show lasts long enough to see the whole office watching Laugh-In, smoking pot, Pete Campbell turning into a long-haired hippy, and I would especially like to see Don tripping in his office.

beelzebubbles

10-21-10, 02:20 PM

I saw the first episode 4 years ago and I hated it. The guys were so horribly sexist it made me want to puke. This year Comcast offered the third season On Demand aand I caught the first episode of that season and I was hooked. I think it was the flashbacks of Don's life that did it for me. Watching this show is more akin to reading a novel than like watching TV. It is unlike any show I have ever seen except maybe the first couple of seasons of The Sopranos.

Here's an article on the allure of Don Draper.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-07-22/don-drapers-sex-appeal-in-mad-men/

Yoda

10-25-10, 11:03 AM

Thought my fellow Mad Men fans would get a kick out of the end of this monologue.

HdHA7L5CQ_RldJ4FMJLIxw

Yoda

10-25-10, 11:06 AM

I saw the first episode 4 years ago and I hated it. The guys were so horribly sexist it made me want to puke.
It is! But it's satirizing a different time, obviously. At first it looks like it's kind of overly nostalgic for the way things were, but over time it becomes obvious it's more along the lines of "hey, don't forget how it used to be."

Interesting note: most of the writers, I've heard, are women. Makes the sexist stuff all the more fascinating.

This year Comcast offered the third season On Demand aand I caught the first episode of that season and I was hooked. I think it was the flashbacks of Don's life that did it for me. Watching this show is more akin to reading a novel than like watching TV. It is unlike any show I have ever seen except maybe the first couple of seasons of The Sopranos.
I like the analogy of a novel, and I agree with your comparison to The Sopranos. Both shows just show you things that a) may never come up again and b) aren't spelled out for you. Maddening at times, but kind of addictive once you get used to it. I almost had to "learn" how to watch Mad Men, because it takes the "no hand holding" thing that The Sopranos did to the extreme.

Yoda

10-27-10, 05:26 PM

Still hoping to pop in here with thoughts on the finale and the season as a whole soon, but in the mean time, get a load of this: you know Roger Sterling's autiobiography in the show? They're really publishing it (http://shelf-life.ew.com/2010/10/27/sterlings-gold-book-deal/):

Grove Atlantic has announced (http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/mad-men-memoir-by-roger-sterling-to-be-published_b15257) it will release Sterling’s Gold: Wit and Wisdom of an Ad Man — the book Mad Men‘s Roger Sterling published during “Gold Mettle,” last season’s episode 11. (The finished copies arrived, poignantly, just as a defeated, washed-up Roger stared at Lucky Strike’s defection.) The real book — as opposed to the pretend one — reportedly came about (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/10/sterlings_gold_how_mad_mens_fa.html) when Grove Atlantic publisher Morgan Entrekin, a fan of the show, struck a deal directly with creator Matt Weiner.
That's kinda awesome.

Another TV show, Castle, did something similar; the author character the show is named for wrote two books within the show's world since the premiere, and both have been released in real life. I bought a copy of the first one mostly out of curiosity, and it was (unsurprisingly) mediocre; it pretty much reads like one of the show's scripts, albeit a bit longer. That said, being able to read it knowing how all the characters normally look, talk, and act, made for an interesting experience, and the idea itself is kind of fun. Fun enough that I bought a Kindle version of the follow-up, at least, though if it's not any better than the first I doubt I'd buy any others that might come out.

As a promotional idea it's pretty interesting. Truth be told, I'll probably buy Sterling's Gold, too.

earlsmoviepicks

10-28-10, 09:43 AM

Hey why not? I think it's a great idea. It doesn't limit the writer to just a 50-minute script! He gets to dive further into the character!

earlsmoviepicks

10-28-10, 09:46 AM

This is really fun! If you know any Mad Men fans out there, and you happen to have a pic of them....

http://sendables.jibjab.com/sendables/204134/mad_men_starring_you

honeykid

03-29-11, 08:26 PM

I know this'll be of interest to those people in this thread.

"Mad Men" air date pushed back to early 2012

The ad agency drama "Mad Men," which was due to begin its fifth season in the summer, will not return until early 2012 because of stalled contract talks with its creator, cable channel AMC said on Tuesday. Skip related content

The network is reportedly close to signing a deal worth $30 million (18 million pounds) with Matt Weiner, but he is fighting demands involving product placement, cast changes and a reduced running time, according to news Web site Deadline Hollywood.

A spokeswoman for AMC, a unit of Cablevision Systems Corp, declined to comment beyond the company's statement.

"While we are getting a later start than in years past due to ongoing, key non-cast negotiations, 'Mad Men' will be back for a fifth season in early 2012," AMC said in the statement.

AMC said it triggered an option with the show's producer, the television arm of Lions Gate Entertainment Corp, to begin work on a fifth season, despite the impasse.

The contract talks are expected to be resolved before production resumes for next season, a source with knowledge of the situation said.

Weiner, a former writer for "The Sopranos," is intricately involved with every detail of every episode.

"Mad Men," revolving around the martini-swilling staff at a Madison Avenue agency in the turbulent 1960s, draws tiny ratings for AMC. But it is one of the most acclaimed shows on television, winning the best drama Emmy for three consecutive years. Its fourth season, which ended in October, will be eligible for the Emmy Awards in September.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20110329/ten-uk-madmen-90f61ed.html

moviegoddess

03-29-11, 10:48 PM

love...love...LOVE...mad men, i think at first i only watched it for, the secetary...miss joan. i loved her size, and her im in charge and control, even though its the 50s/60's.

i hope they hurry up with the new season...

earlsmoviepicks

03-30-11, 09:38 AM

Amen MG

Sedai

03-30-11, 09:59 AM

I'll give it a shot, since you folks speak of it so highly. I've heard it's the most anti-family show on right now, so I will probably hate that aspect of it. I can probably overlook that facet of the show if the rest is really well done.

honeykid

03-30-11, 11:37 AM

Anti-family? I've never heard that, (and I don't agree) but I can see that kind of criticism coming from the US.

Cobpyth

03-14-13, 03:01 PM

April 7 I will reunite again with my favorite TV show of all time! I'm really excited!

Here are some promotional pictures:

http://tvline.com/2013/03/13/mad-men-season-6-spoilers-photos-party/#1/gal_mms6_0018/

I personally think season 4 was the best season yet, but I still really liked the other seasons very much. I hope season 6 will keep up. I'm very curious what the main plot of this season will be.

That's one thing I like about this show. You can not foresee what's coming next.

Cobpyth

04-08-13, 12:09 PM

Did anyone see last night's episode?

I just watched it and I thought it was brilliantly dark. This is going to be an interesting season.

Yoda

04-11-14, 11:44 AM

Might as well resurrect this, as the final season's about to start.

General long-shot prediction I want to make just in case it ends up being right: Don's life falls apart, he does something illegal/murderous/awful/whatever, and ends up abandoning his identity yet again.

Early on it was really tempting to assume that Don is the man in the opening credits, and his fall would end the series. But that seems obvious enough that even if it was ever the plan, I can't imagine it is now. Sort of a Lost/Purgatory kind of deal, where it would've been used if the show hadn't gone on to be renewed so many times.

seanc

04-11-14, 11:48 AM

I am giddy. Mad Men and GOT for the next couple months. If Fargo is any good you guys might have to come pry me from my recliner. I never make predictions for these kind of shows. I just want it to be great and I want to let it wash over me.

Cobpyth

04-11-14, 12:09 PM

Can't wait! It's a pity they've split the last season in two sets of 7 episodes and that we'll have to wait until next year for the actual series finale, but I'm eager to see what they already have in store for us this year.

Last season's finale was pretty intense and left quite a few things in the open. Many characters are starting a 'new beginning'. I'm curious to see what they're doing (especially Don).

Frankly, I have no idea how the show is going to end. Weiner already stated in various interviews that many people "won't like the ending". I guess that means it will be 1) extremely bold, 2) very downbeat, 3) anticlimatic, 4) ambiguous or a combination of these four.

Anyway, only a few more days left! I'm beyond excited!

Sedai

04-11-14, 12:11 PM

I'm caught up now - great stuff!

christine

04-13-14, 06:26 PM

Can't wait for Wednesday when it's on here. When is it being shown in the US?

Yoda

04-13-14, 06:45 PM

In a few hours.

christine

04-21-14, 02:00 PM

So, anyone else watched it? A good start catching us up with what's going on
Don looking out of place in LA. Megan concentrating on her career , putting Don to one side. Roger as hedonistic as ever. Pete gone native in LA and enjoying himself. Peggy still unhappy over Ted, and still being sidelined by Lou. Joan, ambitious and working hard at it.

Loved that initial footage of Don on the airport on the travelator to the song 'I'm a Man yes I Am' by the Spencer Davis Group

http://d1oi7t5trwfj5d.cloudfront.net/45/dd/195942eb4b46814920b50aae5edb/mad-men-4.png

seanc

04-21-14, 02:41 PM

In true Mad Men fashion I dont think there is anything to go bonkers over yet. It is just really solid story telling with great characters and I am enjoying every minute of it. The scene this week where Roger hung up the phone on Pete yet he kept blabbing on for about 15 seconds was priceless.

Everything Christine mentioned is dead on and why I love Mad Men. It just keeps the characters true to who they are and when you piece it all together it is fantastic, humorous, and the best thing on TV by far.

Skepsis93

04-21-14, 05:42 PM

What a superb episode. It's episodes like 7.02 that remind me how hilarious yet deeply moving this show can be. They packed so much humour and pathos into that 45 minutes yet managed to push the story and character development along a whole lot too.

Highlights:
"February 14th: masturbate gloomily."
Kiernan Shipka. She's fast turning into a fantastic actress and shows off some wonderful chemistry with Jon Hamm in this episode.
The roses situation probably sums up my feelings toward this episode. It's so naturally funny but gives us a hell of a lot of insight into Peggy's character at the same time.
"I'd stay here until 1975 if I could get Betty in the ground."
Bert Cooper seeing Dawn in the lobby:

http://i.imgur.com/IKSEdZL.gif

Cobpyth

04-25-14, 10:44 AM

Don't forget:

"Hello Shirley."
http://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/tumblr_n4dpombdwh1qzitueo4_1280.png?w=650&h=364

"Hello Dawn."
http://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/tumblr_n4dpombdwh1qzitueo5_1280.png?w=650&h=364

--------------------------------

I'm very much looking forward to how all the story archs will develop.

Yoda

04-25-14, 10:46 AM

I loved that. Super subtle.

Yoda

04-25-14, 10:48 AM

Bert Cooper seeing Dawn in the lobby
One of the things I liked about that is that we have no idea how much of it is him being racist, and how much of it is him being coldly pragmatic. And we probably never will.

Cobpyth

04-25-14, 11:05 AM

By the way:

I always watch these short (6-7 minutes) reviews from the youtube channel "The Orange Couch" after every Mad Men episode:

https://www.youtube.com/user/falettiman

Besides my own interpretations, it's always fun to hear some other insights and possibly refreshing takes on the show's events. I've been following this challenge since last year and I think their concise reviews are always enrichening and interesting to listen to. If you can't watch a certain episode's review on youtube, it's always available on vimeo too. ;)

Recommended!

earlsmoviepicks

04-25-14, 02:41 PM

One of the things I liked about that is that we have no idea how much of it is him being racist, and how much of it is him being coldly pragmatic. And we probably never will.

I think from the flashback as Bert as a young exec, we can gain some kind of insight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoJWzTasHE4

seanc

04-30-14, 08:13 PM

Just watched this week's episode. This is why I love Mad Men so much. Weiner just lets us spend a couple of episodes settling in and then nails us with an off the charts episode. For most shows us seeing what is probably the end of a central relationship would be enough. With Mad Men we then get what I feel is one of the best sequences in the history of the show. Don returning to work was absolutely brilliant TV. We know Don is feeling uneasy about going into the office but once he gets there he is the most important man in the room. Even those that don't want him there and have more right to be there are dwarfed by his presence. Not only does he seem more self assured than anyone else despite us knowing otherwise, but creative still treats him as if his opinion is more important than anyone else's as well. The time he spends with the creative guys is so well done I wanted to go back and watch it again.Then to end it with the suspense of what the partners would decide and ultimately Don's decision. I can't do any of this justice with my words but also can't stop talking about it. Really fantastic hour of TV. I cannot wait for Don and Lou's first confrontation. I have a feeling that will be the first time we see old work Don back in action.

christine

05-01-14, 07:10 PM

seanc

05-01-14, 07:31 PM

It was great wasn't it! I loved Don in the office, restless and yearning to get back, with everyone wheeling around him. Also Betty's back! Poor little Bobby, what a cold heart Betty has, her lack of empathy for those kids is heartbreaking

I know I didnt even mention the Betty stuff. It was well done but the editing was weird to me. Didnt seem like there was a reason to jump back and forth like they did. That being said I wanted to jump through the screen and give bobby a hug. Poor kid can't even enjoy his damn gummies.

christine

05-02-14, 04:03 AM

Re the editing. Maybe they wanted the audience to feel how long the day was for Don hanging around so they matched it up with the school trip to get the timescale.

Skepsis93

05-02-14, 11:18 AM

Season 1,2,7 spoilers ahead

Re the editing. Maybe they wanted the audience to feel how long the day was for Don hanging around so they matched it up with the school trip to get the timescale.

That's probably one of the reasons. But I think they're trying to draw attention to thematic parallels between Don and Betty as well. One of the major themes of Don's character has been the idea that he's stuck in the past. The man whose identity he has stolen is dead, and Don can't seem to move forward from that point. He can't bring himself to leave New York or SC&P - he decides to stay even though he has to agree to those horrible stipulations in the latest episode, when he could easily just pack up and leave for L.A. There are loads of visual hints at this. Notice also how the costuming of all the supporting characters is evolving as the show is moving through the sixties and into the seventies, some subtle (Roger), some quite radical (Pete, Harry) while Don looks exactly the same as he always has, just older and wearier. I loved the way that Graduate-esque shot of Don on the travelator in episode one emphasised this, with Drab Draper stark against a background of bright colour. Ben Braddock becomes freer and less and less restricted and repressed as that film progresses; am I reading too much into this to think that the fact Don is moving in the opposite direction of Ben in that film is a concious nod to this theme? Almost definitely, but it's fun to think about. Look at the poster for this season, as well:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/96/Mad_Men_Season_7%2C_Promotional_Poster.jpg/250px-Mad_Men_Season_7%2C_Promotional_Poster.jpg

There have been a load of other instances of this theme, of Don's constant alienation and separation from those around him and his unwillingness/inability to embrace the new, the progressive. That fantastic scene in the California diner between him and Pete in episode one comes to mind. The agency is moving forward without him with Lou's hiring and Dawn's politically progressive promotion. The rest of the world is, too. That's how I see it, anyway.

Betty seems the same way, to a degree. She hasn't changed much. She made a foray into a new "look" with the black hair last season but was brutally shot down and reverted back. She seems resigned to the fact that she's a bad mother. In three, Francine calls her old-fashioned and Betty agrees. A life where she's not a bored housewife to a successful husband, like Francine's own, more independent life as a travel agent, seems completely foreign to her. I think I'll have to rewatch season 6 especially to really form a theory, but I have a feeling Betty will be central to Don and the show's conclusion. All I know is, based on the form of the opening trio of season 7, it's gonna be a hell of a ride.

seanc

05-02-14, 11:47 AM

Good take Skepsis. I certainly agree with the unchanging Don and Betty view. They have always seemed like two peas in a pod to me. Most viewers seem to be more forgiving of Don's sins then Betty's for some reason. I honestly was not thinking about this theme while watching Don during this episode though. Maybe that is why the juxtaposition seemed off to me. Like I said I loved both stories they just didnt work as well as a parallel for me as it does most of the time in this series. I will prob watch it again before the next episode and keep it in mind. I usually watch all the episodes I find great twice.

Yoda

05-02-14, 11:52 AM

I still can't figure out how much of the show's ambiguity is complexity, as opposed to a lack of focus. It's a pretty fine line between sophisticated/subtle and just haphazard, and I do think Mad Men becomes the latter from time to time. The themes can be pretty muddled when they're not being overtly obvious.

I still like it, but I wonder if we're all responding to mood. I don't know how well this holds up as a narrative, or even a character study, given all the false starts and feints.

That may be a weakness of a strength--remains to be seen depending on how it all ends. But we've seen the "oh, Don's finally turning a corner" thing over and over. And for a bit I thought that was the point--that we're seduced into thinking he's changed just like the people (mostly women) in his life are. We think we can fix him the same way they do, and we keep expecting it long past the point we should. So it'll be interesting to see if this last hurrah is for real or not.

seanc

05-02-14, 12:14 PM

Yeah, if a change is coming I hope it continues in baby steps. I like the scene in last episode on the plane. Don is connecting with a women the way he has with so many but stops just short of finishing the deal. Or when he tells Megan he is not drinking as much. It may be a lie but at least it is admitting its an issue. That is more than old Don would do. It feels to me like he is on a different path, but like you said it has felt that way before.

earlsmoviepicks

05-02-14, 05:11 PM

I am not a Betty fan.

christine

05-02-14, 06:28 PM

It's a wonder how she's done it with parents like that, but Sally has developed into a much more mature person than her mother is

seanc

05-02-14, 07:00 PM

IDK. She seems to have a lot of the deception/manipulation/narcissism of Betty and Don while at the same time resenting them for those exact attributes. Good writing of a child as would be expected.

Yoda

05-07-14, 12:20 PM

http://previously.tv/m/2014-05-04-mad-men-stare-anim.gif

Cobpyth

05-08-14, 04:26 PM

Don is not amused. :p

christine

05-09-14, 02:17 AM

?..But we've seen the "oh, Don's finally turning a corner" thing over and over. And for a bit I thought that was the point--that we're seduced into thinking he's changed just like the people (mostly women) in his life are. We think we can fix him the same way they do, and we keep expecting it long past the point we should. So it'll be interesting to see if this last hurrah is for real or not.

Well, he could be turning a corner again after the last ep ;)

This episode is full of very obvious symbolism - the monolith, computer representing progress while Don seems stuck in the past. New office v. An attempt at new world order in the countryside.
Roger, seemingly accepting the reinvention of his daughter until sex comes into it whereby he reverts to caveman . Peggy pleased with herself thinking she has a campaign until Joan helps her realise she's just a pawn in a nasty bit of male jealousy.
I liked 'Marigold' telling Roger a few home truths , not like people haven't done it before , but it usually goes in one ear and out of the other.

seanc

05-09-14, 08:55 AM

I liked the scene with Roger and his daughter as well. However it is infinitely frustrating that she knows she is going down the same path as him but still thinks its ok to continue down it. Its great story telling when Weiner can make my heart break for a kid I think we have only seen twice and I dont even remember his name.

Cobpyth

05-09-14, 10:43 AM

I don't think Margaret's comparison worked all that well, though. I mean, Roger provided for her and didn't physically leave his family until his daughter was an adult. I'm sure he made some mistakes and in some ways the lifestyle of a cheating, egocentric, alcoholic businessman is comparable to the lifestyle of hippies (not caring about any moral conventions and just living life in an Epicurean manner), but Margaret actually leaves her child behind so she can live with hippies and can have lots of sex and 'freedom'. I think Roger (and Mona) had the right to blame her, but he was obviously powerless in that situation. She was in to deep. She wasn't able to see what was wrong about what she was doing and seemed completely disillusioned.

This all is happening right before the Charles Manson murders, by the way, which would change the general view on hippies (they weren't seen as harmless anymore).

Yoda

05-09-14, 10:51 AM

Yeah, that was rough. Your dad wasn't around for you, and you hated that, so it's cool for you to do the exact same thing to your kid? Wha? It was hard to watch someone--even a fictional someone--rationalize running away from their child. Win the argument, sure, but lose at life for failing to learn from his mistakes.

The focus on this stuff lends a little credence to the idea I heard floated awhile back that the show's really about the children, and by extension, about the way each generation shapes the next, for good and ill.

Cobpyth

05-12-14, 07:15 PM

Haha. OK, I loved all the previous four episodes this season, but this fifth episode was a freaking atomic bomb.

The whole reason behind the company's conspiracy against Don gets revealed, Don is having a trio, Don kicks ass as he used to and Peggy gets a nice, little present from Ginsberg. :p

Also, great humor during the whole episode:

"You know I want her."
"You can't have her."
"Why can't I have her?"
"Because Scout's honor."

*Lou gets out of the toilet*

Also, was the 2001 reference when Ginsberg was spying on Cutler and Lou one of the best movie references in a TV series EVER or what? :p

My favorite episode of the season so far and instantly one of my favorite episodes of the whole series! Perfect.

Austruck

05-12-14, 08:23 PM

I LOVED the Hal/computer scene when Ginsberg was peeking at them. Hilarious. And I'm sure some folks back then were terrified of computers. Actually, if they still looked like that, they'd probably freak me out a little too.

That last scene with Ginsberg and Peggy made me remember why I loved this series so much a few seasons ago. It's felt rather haphazard lately, and it feels as if they aren't quite sure which story they're telling anymore. In that first season, I was sure it was all Don's story ... and whether or not his secret would come out. Now that seems so ridiculously unimportant that I feel a bit cheated and misled by that first season.

But maybe that's me. I suppose if they bring Don around completely and end his story well, I'll feel less disillusioned. I do like watching Don as he now sits on the sidelines of all areas of his life -- professional, personal, sexual, societal -- and watches everything around him change. His sweet Megan is partying it up in California as part of Hollywood and drags him into it. His daughter is growing up too fast and knows way too much about him. His coworkers can take him or leave him and absolutely none of them admire him professionally anymore (although that may change after the Commander cigarettes smackdown). Society itself is changing. Everyone's dressing differently -- even Harry and Pete -- except him. He's still wearing the same dark suits, thin ties, white shirts, and carrying the briefcase. He dresses exactly the same as he did in episode 1.

Oh, the previews on AMC keep saying "Two more episodes left this year!" And yet I know this is the final season.... Are they really breaking this final season in half and not starting the second half until 2015?? Or are there simply two episodes left... period?

Cobpyth

05-12-14, 08:29 PM

Oh, the previews on AMC keep saying "Two more episodes left this year!" And yet I know this is the final season.... Are they really breaking this final season in half and not starting the second half until 2015?? Or are there simply two episodes left... period?

They're splitting it up and are airing the second half of the season in 2015. :(

Austruck

05-13-14, 12:19 PM

Seven months away? Egad. Sorry, but that's stupid for this final season, and way too long. I think one of the reasons I started to lose a little interest in this show is that their seasons started feeling very far apart. They're just starting to get a little momentum for this season and it'll be waiting time again. I think we viewers sometimes need the momentum and build-up of weekly episodes to really care about these people. Take them off our radar for seven months at a time, right when things start mattering again, and we lose interest.

Or, at least, that's been my experience with this show. It works far better rewatching episodes on DVD in groups without having to wait so long for the next fix.

seanc

05-13-14, 12:24 PM

I love this show more than anything else on TV but agree its just too long to wait. I didnt start watching in real time till the fourth season and main lining the first three seasons was the best thing ever.

Cobpyth

05-13-14, 12:36 PM

Yeah the seasons are definitely too far apart, but this is my favorite TV series, so I just rewatch other seasons and episodes while waiting for the new stuff.

christine

05-23-14, 07:09 PM

I felt for Peggy this last ep. The girl deserves more. Her scene with Don at the end was really moving, brought a tear to me eye

seanc

05-26-14, 11:58 AM

Just had a couple of the big moments from last nights episode spoiled for me via facebook. Dont be on the internet if you dont like spoilers boys and girls.

seanc

05-26-14, 09:04 PM

Leave it to Weiner. He kills off a main character. Breaks up the relationship of the man we are all rooting for (don't pretend your not). Still ends the mid-season on a happy, hopeful note. My second favorite episode of the season. I wish this show could last forever and that I didn't have to wait a whole year for the last seven episodes.

Yoda

05-26-14, 09:33 PM

I call "Ginsberg's Nipple" as a band name.

seanc

05-26-14, 09:36 PM

I call "Ginsberg's Nipple" as a band name.

Classic

christine

05-30-14, 03:28 AM

Really liked that last ep of the series. I love Peggy, and she was finally allowed to have her day with no sniping about her being a woman and no acting as a mom talk - in direct contrast with her motherliness towards the neighbours kid.

Poor Bert :( I always wondered exactly what He did all day in his office, now I know - practising his singing and dancing! Don's marriage was on the rocks already, I actually thought they'd spirit up a few eps ago. And Roger coming up with the goods to keep Don and put Cutler's nose out of joint. Great stuff :)
Happy with that but far too long to wait, that's a big mistake

seanc

04-06-15, 01:32 PM

Time to resurrect this thread for the last 7 episodes. I just watched last nights. In true MadMen fashion it will be a slow roll getting started but there was plenty to love. In fact I simply love just being back with some of the greatest characters ever to be put on TV.

My favorite things about this episode was the Ken storyline, which had the most satisfying end game. Of course just trying to get back into Don's psyche again is always a treat. He has always been preoccupied with his mortality, or maybe just mortality in general. Makes you think all the people that have been predicting his death at the end are onto something, but I have always hoped not.

Roger has always been one of my favorite characters but they didn't do him any favors this episode. He was annoying in the diner scene instead of funny. He treated Ken like garbage which is not as fun as it would be with Pete or the TV guy whose name I always forget. Also, the mustache needs to go.

Fabulous

04-07-15, 01:18 AM

I watch AMC quite a lot and I have heard nothing but great things for Mad Men, but I just never go through and actually watch it...

90sAce

04-07-15, 01:20 AM

I haven't watched a lot of it, but what I've seen so far has been great - i might catch up on the older seasons later

christine

04-07-15, 01:52 AM

I'm going to be days behind you . Ours isn't showing till Thursday . Can't wait :)

Cobpyth

04-07-15, 07:16 PM

Loved the episode and Mad Men finally used one of my favorite songs of the period. I always thought it would fit perfectly with an image of Don Draper sitting in a bar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ny5z8gKM18

I've loved this song since the moment I first heard it in Scorsese's After Hours.

NatashaR

04-08-15, 05:15 PM

My favorite things about this episode was the Ken storyline, which had the most satisfying end game.

That scene with Ken was my favorite of the whole episode.
Btw can anyone tell me if that waitress was part of the show in earlier seasons? She looks so familiar but maybe I've just seen her somewhere else...

Yoda

04-08-15, 05:17 PM

Re: Ken. It was satisfying on one level, but kind of sad on another. He almost got out of the industry, but decided he'd rather make them miserable rather than make himself happy.

Re: the waitress. No, she's new, but I wondered the same thing at first, and she looks like a couple of women Don was with way back in season 1 like his hippie girlfriend from the pilot, and (most relevant) Rachel, who factored heavily into this episode. Which I'm sure was deliberate.

Cobpyth

04-08-15, 05:22 PM

Re: Ken. It was satisfying on one level, but kind of sad on another. He almost got out of the industry, but decided he'd rather make them miserable rather than make himself happy.

It wasn't even satisfying to me. It was just sad. He chose the trivial above the transcendent, while thinking he somehow "won".

Yoda

04-08-15, 05:23 PM

Way back in the day, I remember talking to my wife about how he seemed the least tied to the agency, what with his writing and general happiness/disregard for office politics. The fact that he's done such an about-face says a lot about how we're expected to view that whole world, which in turn probably gives us some hints about how it'll all end.

seanc

04-08-15, 05:27 PM

Re: Ken. It was satisfying on one level, but kind of sad on another. He almost got out of the industry, but decided he'd rather make them miserable rather than make himself happy.

Good point. It is satisfying from a viewer stand point, but he is essentially in the same position as before. However, based on the conversation with his wife it seems like he has serious doubts about his ability to write the great amercan novel anymore anyway. That in itself could be viewed as pretty sad as well. I guess in the end he kind of represents the every man. Desperately not wanting to do what he is doing, but really not having anywhere to turn. I was just glad to see him. Ken kind of disappears for long periods which makes me think this was probably his send off.

christine

04-12-15, 12:32 PM

Roger's moustache! :laugh:

Loved having them all back. Awful to think it was ok back then to treat women in the way those three guys did to Peggy and Joan - made my skin crawl. The exchange between the two women in the lift was electric.

seanc

04-22-15, 09:20 PM

What's everyone thinking? I didn't love the last episode. Never been a Glenn fan. I didn't love the Joan stuff either. She has always felt kind of stuck between two worlds. Her new man didn't really add much.

I literally have never laughed so hard at Mad Men as when the young creative kid asked the Tinkerbell execs how they had the balls to walk back into the room. It was setting up a much more poignant moment, but him trying to pull off Don right then made me laugh for like thirty seconds.

christine

04-24-15, 01:38 PM

seanc

04-25-15, 03:45 PM

I thought it was a particularly poignant episode for Don. I thought he looked adrift at the end. No missus, no furniture and now no apartment, and a child who is disdainful of the the very thing that has carried him through his adult life - his charm.

The Tinkerbell biscuit bit was funny, but again a slap in the face from the departing bloke about Don's looks. Definitely a get at Don ep!

I like what Don says to Sally at the bus stop as well, when he tells her she is Don and Betty whether she wants to be or not. Again, something that Weiner has been driving at for seasons now. Sally resents her life but you always still see that hint of Don and Betty under the surface. Good stuff.

christine

04-25-15, 05:23 PM

Yes she's definitely Don and Betty's daughter! I've always liked Sally, she's always been her own person even when she was little.

Lucas

04-26-15, 05:40 PM

I am so ready for tonight's episode. Last week's episode while good was probably me least favorite of the 2nd half so far, that being said I still rate it an 8.0/10.

That glen and betty scene in the kitchen was 20 shades of cringe.

Cobpyth

04-26-15, 05:49 PM

Lucas

04-27-15, 12:07 AM

What a fantastic episode, it sort of felt like a series finale in a sense. Can't believe that there's only three episodes left in the whole series.

Monkeypunch

04-27-15, 12:14 AM

I still genuinely don't see at which place they're going to conclude Don's character.

What would you all do if you were in his situation with his state of mind? Is it even possible for him to find satisfying happiness or is he doomed?

I loved the bit where he questioned Peggy and constantly asked her for a bigger goal in her life. He basically banalizes her complete sense of purpose.

"Why don't you sh*t on someone else's dreams?"

Funny and poignant scene.

I think that the show should end with Don accepting that he is, and always will be, Dick Whitman. All of his problems in his life have been because he's been lying to everyone and himself. His whole life has been a total sham, if you think about it.

That's just my take.

Cobpyth

04-27-15, 06:40 PM

Pfffff... What a fantastic episode. Probably the best or second best of season 7, in my opinion. Can't wait to see what happens next.

I still don't know whether Diana (the restaurant girl) is supposed to be just another empty pursuit for Don or actually something meaningful. I feel it's the former, but I'm not sure.

Lucas

05-04-15, 12:14 AM

This episode Lost Horizon has got to be one of my favorite episodes of the entire series. I loved how beautiful the cinematography was, the scenes with Joan were compelling, Don going on a road trip searching for the waitress was great, and so were the scenes with Peggy and Roger, etc. I think the series really feels that it is coming to a close and I love that. I am not sure as to how it will all end, but i'm sure the ending will prove satisfying.

Also was it just me but I found some scenes really surreal and sorta dreamlike. Like the scene with Peggy skating.

Lucas

05-04-15, 12:17 AM

I still don't know whether Diana (the restaurant girl) is supposed to be just another empty pursuit for Don or actually something meaningful. I feel it's the former, but I'm not sure.

I was thinking it was the former for a while, but after tonight's episode i'm not so sure. I would like to see a happy ending where Don finally lands the girl of his dream and is fulfilled, but that sounds too optimistic and "clean-cut" for such a high-brow series. Two episodes left and I'm still not sure how it will wrap up.

Austruck

05-04-15, 09:56 PM

See, I didn't like that episode at all. There are SO many characters to tell us about, and I feel like they're piddling away the final chances to tie up things for us.

And I don't see how they're going to wrap up anything for Don romantically. After all, he's supposedly been happily married twice now for a while (a lot longer than a few episodes), so anything they'd show us of romantic happiness would still find us skeptical at how Don would be faring a few years down the road.

When the McCann buyout happened, I thought, "Ah, yes, they are wrapping things up!" It finally felt like the end was near. But this episode felt as if everyone was just coasting and passing time waiting for the finale. Beautiful cinematography or not, it felt like it didn't move anything forward. It's too late in the game to pull that off for an entire episode, IMHO.

The Joan storyline was the only one that felt like it was moving toward anything (sad though it seemed at first).

My two cents.

Cobpyth

05-04-15, 10:37 PM

We'll leave our characters at a certain point in their lives. I don't think/feel there's a special need to wrap things up all that neatly (you probably don't mean that either, Austruck). I don't think we're going to get that kind of ending.

Having said that, I do think we're getting some kind of closure in the two latest episodes. We're starting to get a sense of where the characters will end up or at least the show is giving us enough hints at their future that make us ask the questions they probably want us to ask about all the different characters.

Austruck already mentioned Joan, but I also think Peggy's fate is becoming more clear as of late. That latest image of her walking through McCann with those sun glasses, those colorful clothes and that cigarette in her mouth might be more meaningful than it seems at first. It seems like another one of those radical changes for her (she already had a few during the series). She now completely chose the mask of (false?) self-confidence. In a way it will make her stronger (especially career-wise), but it may also have its consequences for her as a human being in the long run (both positively and negatively). I'm curious on which note she'll end. Her "ending" is not completely clear yet, but it's heading towards something poignant about the rest of her future, I think.

Roger is also pretty much settled in his final role. Besides having been a fantastic comedy act throughout the whole series, he's now become an old white fox who looks back at his past with a wonderful mix of cynicism and nostalgia (he already was, but now probably more than ever). I think there's still a pretty good possibility that he will die before the show ends, but I think he's also reached a clear last stop. He's the product of another time and even though he might seem to easily adapt to modernity, he's not completely living in the present anymore. He's going on with dignity, but in his heart I feel like he longs for a more valuable past than he actually had.

I don't know how much we'll still get from Pete, Betty and Sally, but I feel like their stories are also pretty much told, besides perhaps the nice bow around it that we probably can still expect in the last two episodes for some of them.

The only big question mark for me is still Don and if his final moment will be satisfactory.

Austruck

05-04-15, 10:48 PM

You're right -- I didn't mean that they have to end everyone's stories, of course. But it does have to feel like something more than simply same-old, same-old with everyone. We have to get the feeling that we can *guess* something generic about each of their futures based on where they leave us. Otherwise, any episode is as good as any other as a series finale.

The past few episodes I've really noticed the transition to '70s clothing and look. And yet Don still dresses essentially as he did in the very first episode -- down to the same haircut/style. If anyone is heading into dinosaur-land and doesn't know it, it's Don. Even the McCann guys are becoming disillusioned with him, after having just sounded as if they had found the goose that lays the golden egg.

There are a few things I wouldn't mind feeling like they'd tied up a little better: In the beginning, there was a lot of stuff about Dick Whitman, and now it's like it just doesn't have any kick to it and is essentially a non-issue. But is something like that ever completely gone? There were only scant repercussions. (Yes, the first divorce, but that would have happened anyway at some point, methinks.) They made such a big deal about it for so long and then he tells Megan about it and it just sort of poofs away.

I don't see Roger dying -- if only because Cooper died. They were bound to kill off one of the original guys, and I think Cooper was it, although Roger did mention his "heart condition" again this past episode, so perhaps you are onto something...

I would like to see Joan's story wrapped up better. She doesn't seem the type to just take her quarter-million and then go sit at home. At first she seemed to want the homemaker life, but she's way past that now. Will she be happy?

I did like Peggy waltzing down the hallway in the shades with the cig. Made me laugh out loud, remembering her walking to her first desk with a box (I think), but with a completely different attitude. She's come a long way, baby. :)

We'll see. I think this season has given me hope they'll end this well, but the past season-ish was such a useless mess that I'll believe it when I see it, at this point...

Sedai

05-06-15, 01:52 PM

Sadly, I have had to drop the show, as I just CANNOT get access to the first 6 episodes of season 7. On-Demand has the entire series, but not the first 6 of this final season. Not on Netflix or Prime, and obviously, the season won't hit physical media until it's over. I don't pirate, so save that recommendation. ;) Sites like AMC also don't have the first 7 episodes...Arg!

That's OK. At this point, I have kind of lost interest, as it has been over a year since I saw any content and season 6 was pretty weak, IMO. I just straight out missed season 7 when it first aired, and it never crossed my mind until recently when I saw a kooky DB Cooper theory about the show. I feel no need to stay current now, and I guess I will eventually catch up with the show once all the episodes are spammed all over the place.

Lucas

05-06-15, 02:53 PM

The only big question mark for me is still Don and if his final moment will be satisfactory.

Same here. I've been going on a few message boards and many are predicting that Don will go back to being Dick Whitman. Don Draper dies, Dick Whitman lives. I think that would be a fairly good close to his character.

seanc

05-06-15, 03:25 PM

I think a lot of people will be disappointed with the end like they were The Sopranos. That show had a very distinct way of telling a story that didn't involve tying up loose ends. I definitely think Weiner has that same sensibility and like Chase I don't see him abandoning it just because its the end. Personally I love the style and will probably welcome an open end like The Sopranos.

I could see the Draper becoming Whitman scenario for sure. If that does happen though it would shock me if we get too much information beyond that, which again would leave a lot of fans disappointed I think.

christine

05-06-15, 03:30 PM

I'm only up to ep. 11 Time and Life so you're one ahead of me. I liked the end of Time and Life, it seemed like the beginning of the end when all the employees walked away in the middle of the staff meeting leaving the core people standing there. Seemed like a trailer for the end game.
Surely Pete will reunite with Trudy. I loved that episode with the headmaster, so funny referencing the massacre of Glencoe!
Peggy will be fine, she's a fighter and the kind of woman that stood up for women everywhere to work in the world of men. I hope Joan has met a decent guy, she's also a toughie, but I feel she's looking for something else in life whereas Peggy has ambition. Her scene with Stan telling him about her baby was really touching.
Roger doesn't seem bothered about anything now, he's reached that time of life where he can kick back and take whatever comes his way with a sense of humour.
But Don, oh Don. Never content with what he has. Will life ever bring him happiness?

seanc

05-06-15, 03:40 PM

I am actually where you are Christine. Sunday's episode is on the DVR and I probably won't get to it till tomorrow. I thought the episode you are talking about was the best of these last seven so far. I really love how Don couldn't dig himself out of that hole like he has so many times before.

I think it will be fitting if Don's ending is a little tragic, not talking about death here, just not getting his way like he always has. I love the character but he is quite despicable and I think with a life lived like that a little karma is in order. Before anybody calls me out for being a creep, I wouldn't wish this on someone in real life. Entertainment is to dream.

christine

05-06-15, 04:07 PM

Aye, his chickens are coming home to roost that's for sure. The way he was dismissed during his presentation at McCann, being sidelined is not something he's used too. Being dropped by a woman isn't either. Like Austruck has pointed out he's even beginning to looked out of date in the way he dresses.
I wouldn't call you out for wishing some karma Sean. Don is charming, perhaps a man entertaining enough to have a pint with but not someone you'd want to share a life with.

christine

05-09-15, 07:33 AM

One behind as always! Watched Lost Horizons last night. I'm loving these last episodes, not least because of their visual beauty, only spoiled by the knowledge there will be no more :(
The change from the personal and freethinking Stirling Cooper into the corporate McCann was held up to see how our guys fit in and surprise surprise the clash of cultures is extreme. From open plan to narrow corridors and multiple floors and milling people. From relaxed dress back to shirt and tie. From the workers to the bosses, there was open communication, now there's layers of management.

Joan has been able to create her own world inside SC, she had the respect of her colleagues because she's put in the hard work to get where she is. However out in the big bad world of McCann her boss sees her as prey and the big boss can barely hold back his disgust at a woman being where she is. Even the women with their 'womens club' show Joan where it's at from a gender work point of view. Roger is right to tell her to take the money. No idea if we are to be shown what happens to her, but I want her to go and use that money to start her own business, and make a success of it. She would never fit in McCann. I liked the little touch of history with her mention of the 1970 Womens Strike for Equality - that sort of thing anchors timelines.

I'd be surprised if Roger even takes up a role within McCann, he's just not going to be able to take it seriously!

Not sure how long Peggy will last either over there. She does have her straight side, so she will be able to fit in if she puts her mind to it, but if she's treated badly because she's a woman or her creativity is stifled she's going to walk. She now has the confidence - the walk down the corridor with the shades, the ciggie and the tentacle porn pic was absolute class - must've brought a massive smile to fans faces, it did mine!
I know Peggy and Joan haven't always got on, but they do complement each others skills and I do think they work well together even if theres a personal spikiness there. Could be Joan starts a business and asks Peggy to join? I'd like the thought of that :)

Now Don. When he approached that window in his new office put his hand up and felt the draught,a chill went through me. The reference to the intro, the thought of his suicide, let's not have it end like that! I hope this was just a touching reference and maybe the winds of change?
Throughout the whole series, Don has never been happy. He's seen happiness and can recognise the times he felt it. A nice touch him going back to pick up Sally, and having that tiny tender moment with Betty. Betty seems content too, accepting Sally's independance and doing her own studies. There was no surprise he couldn't or wouldn't cope within McCann, that first meeting was a catalyst in confirming his state of mind. I don't think even he knew what he was going to do if he found Diana. She's just another dream. It's the skill of the writers that we have no idea how Don is going to end up. Pretty sure it's not going to be a happy ending though, and will we even see him back in NY again?

There's loads of things I've liked about this last series. Meredith, Don's current secretary comes across like a dizzy girl, but look at her storyboards for Don's new apartment. Those surreal scenes in the empty office with Peggy and Roger - absolutely loved that! Betty looking happy and calm. The underdevelopment of Joan's new boyfriend - who is he? is he something dodgy, is that why we don't know any more? Shirley leaving and telling Roger with such self confidence she doesn't need the job anymore. Roger's snarky conversation with Harry. Loads more.

I'm going to miss it. I love it almost as much as The Sopranos.

seanc

05-11-15, 10:37 AM

christine

05-11-15, 10:45 AM

Hey Sean, I'm glad we see a bit more of Pete before then end then, it's on Thursdays here so I'll post about it then.
What are the two series that top Mad Men for you then? If I don't count the British series I'm really fond of, I still have The Sopranos as my number one, but I think Mad Men just edges The Wire into second place...at the moment anyway

seanc

05-11-15, 11:13 AM

The Shield and The Sopranos have been 1A and 1B for me for a long time.

christine

05-11-15, 11:32 AM

Well we agree on The Sopranos, but I've never seen The Shield. I should check it out really as a lot of people have recommended it.

seanc

05-11-15, 11:39 AM

Well we agree on The Sopranos, but I've never seen The Shield. I should check it out really as a lot of people have recommended it.

It's great. It does probably have a down season and a half but still very watchable because the characters are great. Vic Mackey is one of my favorite characters ever. Then you have back to back seasons with Glen Close and Forrest Whitacker which are probably the best TV for me ever. Problem is I don't think it streams anywhere. If you move to GA I will let you borrow my DVDs.

christine

05-11-15, 01:54 PM

That's a long way to move to borrow some dvds :laugh:
I think I might know someone who has the boxsets. I'll do some enquiries.

christine

05-15-15, 02:41 PM

I am going to miss it too Christine, probably my third favorite show ever.

I was not enamored with this last episode though, I hope you like it more than me when you see it. It is a decent Pete episode. The Don aspect seems like something that would have been decent in a middle episode in a middle season of the run. Not satisfying for me at all when the end is basically here. The Betty story didn't resonate with me emotionally like it was supposed to either. We don't know her well enough anymore as she disappears for large chuncks of time.

Not a terrible episode, but not what I was expecting so close to the end.

I liked it more than you I think Sean, specially Pete fighting against being headhunted then realising what a coup that job would be. I like seeing him with his little girl, he's always loved her and made time for her, that's partly why I think he genuinely feels he can rekindle his relationship with Trudy, that and they both seem never to have fallen out of love. I hope so much that the job actually materialised.

The Betty story did make me feel sad. Seeing the doctor discuss her medical affairs with her husband while she sat looking into the distance was only too indicative of those times, and just like the time her psychiatrist was reporting back her sessions to Don. She needs control of her life and just when she's going to do it by going back to school tragedy strikes, so now she has to take control of her death instead.
The one to feel sorry for is Sally not Betty tho isn't it? Poor Sally. A mother so emotionally repressed and self centred she can't even put her arm around her daughter. Her pushing past Sally when she came home, piqued because Henry had confided her dramatic news before she could, was awful. I hope Don makes contact with Sally soon.

Don got part of his big lie off his chest to strangers. He's getting further away and shedding more of himself, his lie, his car, even his clothes. I can't wait to see how it ends, but I don't want it to end :(

seanc

05-15-15, 03:53 PM

Glad you enjoyed it so much Christine. I did enjoy it but I think I wanted to be blown away these last couple of episodes and I wasn't here. The Pete stuff was really good. A satisfying conclusion if this is the last we see of him. That scene with the doctor and Betty in the background was very poignant. Quite a commentary without throwing it in your face.

Lucas

05-15-15, 04:08 PM

seanc

05-15-15, 04:19 PM

I really loved the episode, thought it was a great conclusion to Betty's arc. While I liked the Don storyline, i'm not sure that it was needed when there are only two episodes left in the whole series. I'm beginning to worry that the finale won't offer a satisfying conclusion to his character.

My biggest problem was the Don stuff. It was fine, it just didn't feel second to last episode good to me. Felt like a middle season, middle episode kind of story.

Lucas

05-15-15, 04:25 PM

My biggest problem was the Don stuff. It was fine, it just didn't feel second to last episode good to me. Felt like a middle season, middle episode kind of story.

Gotta agree with you there. I liked the storyline but they could have placed that somewhere earlier in the season indeed. I don't know what my expectations should be coming into the finale. There are still quite a few storylines to wrap up-Peggy,Pete,and of course Don among a few others.

I liked The Sopranos ending as there were clues and thematic hints throughout the final season that explained the "cut to black" ending. I hope this show doesn't pull for something like that though.

seanc

05-15-15, 04:30 PM

I think we might be done with Pete Lucas. I feel like we might only see Peggy and Don this week.

seanc

05-15-15, 04:33 PM

Come to think of it. I could see that shot of Peggy walking in confidently with her painting being the end for her. I hope not but I can see Weiner ending her story there.

christine

05-15-15, 04:43 PM

yes Sean i think you could be right about no more Peggy or Pete. I'd be alright with an unresolved ending. I'm not keen on things having neatly wrapped up endings, life just ain't like that. As long as we can see where Don's mindset is going I'll be happy.

Lucas

05-15-15, 05:42 PM

I think we might be done with Pete Lucas. I feel like we might only see Peggy and Don this week.

I really hope this is the end for Pete, as it's a satisfying and happy conclusion. However Duck is such an..untrustworthy character at that. I am not sure if he is someone to be trusted.

As for Peggy, that might potentially be her final scene but I sure as heck hope not. Uggh I really don't know what to expect with the finale. I'll be going in with mild expectations.

seanc

05-15-15, 05:47 PM

I actually like that ending for Peggy but I am being selfish. She is my second favorite character and I want to see her some more. An hour with Don to end it could be really nice too. I am fairly optimistic despite my kind of dislike of Don's story last episode.

christine

05-17-15, 02:12 PM

It's on tonight for you guys isn't it? I'll catch up with you on Thursday. I'll have to operate some self control not to check this thread out before then!
PM me Sean with a thumbs up or down, but nothing more!

Yoda

05-17-15, 02:18 PM

Yup, it's on tonight, in a little under 9 hours.

seanc

05-17-15, 02:26 PM

seanc

05-17-15, 02:29 PM

I wish I had some prediction questions. I will just ask one. Do you think we see Don back in NY?

I say no.

Yoda

05-17-15, 03:12 PM

I say no as well. My wife predicted a couple episodes ago that he wouldn't come back and that seems very likely now.

seanc

05-17-15, 03:20 PM

I say no as well. My wife predicted a couple episodes ago that he wouldn't come back and that seems very likely now.

Yrah, I am with her. Although you need to warn her now that I predicted it the episode will open with him back in his office like nothing ever happened.

seanc

05-17-15, 10:58 PM

3 minutes, feeling sad and happy all at once.

Austruck

05-18-15, 12:22 AM

Well, this has to have spoilers, because I'm writing this about a minute after the series just ended...

So, is the assumption that Don was smiling because he'd just thought of a great ad campaign for Coke?

I gotta say yes, meaning he came back and worked on Coke. Too many people in that ad (which was real, BTW -- I remember that campaign very clearly) looked like people at the retreat with him.

Right up until about seven minutes before it ended (yes, seven minutes! I looked at the clock!), I was sure I was going to be really pissed off when the closing credits hit ... but somehow Weiner redeemed himself in those closing minutes.

I'm okay with it. :) This... coming from the woman who was pissed at the endings of LOST, and (parts of ) BATTLESTAR GALACTICA, and THE SOPRANOS.

Lucas

05-18-15, 12:23 AM

I'm disappointed with the finale, and that's coming from someone who loves The Sopranos ending. This episode just felt...mediocre. Nothing was particularly special and I kept waiting for the episode to hit me. Nope. Did not happen. I really expected more from Weiner and the writers of the show. Expected alot more in fact.

Oh well.

Lucas

05-18-15, 12:44 AM

I've let the finale marinate a little bit more now, and I'm beginning to feel a bit kinder towards it. It's far from a "great" finale, but I suppose I was being a bit harsh on it. I was just expecting something more, but I suppose this is a serviceable end for the characters.

Austruck

05-18-15, 12:59 AM

Yes, I guess that's what I meant by "redeemed" himself, Lucas. I was beginning to really worry he'd pull a stunt ending and would cop out. I don't need endings to be completely wrapped up, but if you're telling a story, it should have an ending that feels something like an ending.

Despite the fact that a lot of this season (especially stuff with Don) felt like filler, I liked that they gave nods to all the major players at the end. I especially liked Peggy's wrap-up. I had been thinking for a long time that this should have happened to her, but I honestly did NOT expect Weiner to do that for me. So, yeah, yay Peggy. :)

Memento Mori

05-18-15, 07:28 AM

It was unexpected what happened to Don but it was a satisfying ending. I liked it.

seanc

05-18-15, 08:16 AM

I especially liked Peggy's wrap-up. I had been thinking for a long time that this should have happened to her, but I honestly did NOT expect Weiner to do that for me. So, yeah, yay Peggy. :)

Me too. Always wondered why they didn't go there but had pretty much put it out of mind for two seasons.

Cobpyth

05-18-15, 09:00 AM

SPOILERS!

I for one LOVED the finale!

It wouldn't have been credible for Don to just leave advertisement and start a completely different life. The main thing he needed to do was embracing who he is and was.

I know the last episodes were hinting at a complete dissatisfaction with the advertisement world and it even seemed like an attack towards consumerism was kind of developping, but that wouldn't have felt "true" as an ending to me. It wouldn't have been the right conclusion. It would have reduced Mad Men severely, in my opinion, if it all would've come down to that final "message of conscience".

Instead, Weiner found a way to find a connection between "spirituality", happiness and consumerism, how odd this may seem. It's not entirely a happy ending for someone who's skeptical of consumerism and the advertisement world, because that Coke ad can still be seen as "selling happiness" and Don going back to the self-destructive advertisement business, but I think the show is less cynical. The show, in a way, has always embraced cynicism on a micro level, but in the end, it always strongly turns its back at it.

Consider the episode in season 6 about the moon landing. An older guy is complaining about how much the whole moon operation costs and how it's an economical scandal and Sally takes over that point of view and replicates it towards her dad. Don's answer: "You don't really believe that, do you?" He learns her to not be cynical. Near the ending of that episode she kisses the younger boy who's outside in the garden looking through his telescope and watching the stars and the universe with wonder and excitement...

I think, basically, Don realized that being cynical is not necessarily being wise and that it doesn't necessarily even exposes any important and valuable truths. On the contrary, it makes you feel unhappy, it stops you from functioning. He was projecting anti-cynicism on his daughter in that tiny moment in season 6, but he wasn't able yet to fully live by his own beliefs. Even in this last episode, he was being cynical for most of the time, but in the end, I think we can assume that he finally was able to flee from it. Perhaps there will still be moments in his life where he's not completely happy, but that's human. The point of the ending is that he was able to finally keep on going, despite the personal demons that had been haunting him for his whole life. He accepted himself and the world around him.

I'm so glad this ending was able to satisfy me. I can now proudly say that Mad Men is my favorite TV show of all time. I hope you guys enjoyed the ride just as much as I did!

earlsmoviepicks

05-18-15, 09:40 AM

WARNING--SPOILERS BELOW

I thought it was a pretty decent finale. Fair amount of redemption going on. Peggy and Stan was a cutely wrapped gift for the viewers-- (thanks MW); Joan finally creating something of her own-- nice touch; Pete together w family and happy-happy job, OK, I'll buy into that; Roger and the French mama, sure why not.

And now for Don. Don, Don, Don, Don, Don. What are we gonna do with you? Successful company man, always escaping to somewhere distant, bedding neurotics and hippy chicks, and then back to the office again. (I wish to god though that he had a southern secretary, so when asked for his location, she could say, "He R.U.N.N.O.F.T. again...." Is that asking too much?) However, his painfully perky secretary more than made up for this, God I love her so much.

At first I was disturbed at the ending, that goofy image of Don doing something he would've have openly smirked at several years ago-- that's all we get? But after thinking about it, I realize that this is a tormented man, so tired of repeating patterns over and over again and seeing where it's taken him. And given the time period, and his personal history, it does seem to fit, strangely enough. So good on the writers for this. And nice touch on the vintage coke ad. :)

Cobpyth

05-18-15, 10:17 AM

Also a great read:

http://t.co/c0W7xMk1lh

seanc

05-18-15, 10:53 AM

I agree with a lot of what you said Cob. Mad Men has always been a show about trying to change. Many people complained throughout the run that Weiner was treading the same ground. Weiner always stayed true to his characters and to real life by never letting his characters do the 180 degree turns that they crave and that a lot of other shows would do. Life is almost always about subtle changes and trying not to let your vices, demons, or perceived weaknesses over take you again.

Weiner did a fabulous job in the final episode of giving us a glimmer of hooe for each character. While still letting us know these are the same people we spent seven years with, warts and all.

Will Kansas be the paradise Pete thinks, probably not. Eventually a private school will not treat him like a king and someone will have a better plane.

Will Joan become a thriving business woman, probably yes. Will she run into a pervert who tests her morals in a male dominated world again, probably yes.

Are Stan and Peggy perfect for each other, I have always thought so. But there will be lots of nights of him trying to pull her out of the office as she still struggles to balance work and life.

The perfect ending for Don says it all. I have a little peace right now. I had my cathartic moment. Now let me try and bottle it and sell it to someone else. Hoping he can hold onto it for a moment.

I think Weiner created the perfect ending for this group of characters.

Yoda

05-18-15, 01:43 PM

Also a great read:

http://t.co/c0W7xMk1lh
Love his stuff, but I'm definitely one of those people he mentioned in the beginning, who read the ending cynically. And it looks like Alan Sepinwall (http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/series-finale-review-mad-men-person-to-person-id-like-to-buy-the-world-a-coke), who's my go-to TV critic, read it the same way. Seitz seems mainly persuaded by how the episode feels (it feels somewhat happy, ergo the ending is happy), but I'm not sure I find that persuasive: Don's had lots of personal breakthroughs that feel happy in the moment but end up amounting to nothing. This disconnect has been the heart of the entire story so far.

Hardly surprising that a show like Mad Men would have a finale that can be read two highly different ways, though, eh?

seanc

05-18-15, 02:04 PM

Also a great read:

http://t.co/c0W7xMk1lh

Hardly surprising that a show like Mad Men would have a finale that can be read two highly different ways, though, eh?

I think his struggle will always be there but I would also like to hope that he is at least a little bit closer to making some changes. Especially with his children. I don't remember ever seeing Don deal with the type of father he is the way we did when he was on the phone with Betty. One of the things that it seems like Weiner never seemed to tackle in a head on sort of way is Don's alcoholism. To me that would be job one in creating real change in his life. Maybe we are always meant to see that as a result of his unhappiness instead of the other way around.

Lucas

05-18-15, 02:17 PM

SPOILERS!
I can now proudly say that Mad Men is my favorite TV show of all time. I hope you guys enjoyed the ride just as much as I did!

That's awesome! It's a top 5-show for me alongside the likes of The Wire and The Sopranos.

I'm really glad you loved the finale...it's definitely growing on me. I went in thinking it was going to be a much different finale than it was. Just glad Don is finally at peace with himself.

Yoda

05-18-15, 02:20 PM

One of the things that it seems like Weiner never seemed to tackle in a head on sort of way is Don's alcoholism. To me that would be job one in creating real change in his life. Maybe we are always meant to see that as a result of his unhappiness instead of the other way around.
They did, briefly, when he was in that small, dark apartment after the divorce. I think that was when he wrote the Lucky Strike letter, and I recall a scene where he poured out some alcohol. It was probably the first "Don's changed!" moment.

90sAce

05-18-15, 03:25 PM

That's awesome! It's a top 5-show for me alongside the likes of The Wire and The Sopranos.

I'm really glad you loved the finale...it's definitely growing on me. I went in thinking it was going to be a much different finale than it was. Just glad Don is finally at peace with himself.
I'm going to catch up with the Wire and Mad Men soon.

Also going to look into Justified - heard it was very good.

The really good shows on TV are pretty sparse sad as it is.

Cobpyth

05-18-15, 04:07 PM

Love his stuff, but I'm definitely one of those people he mentioned in the beginning, who read the ending cynically. And it looks like Alan Sepinwall (http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/series-finale-review-mad-men-person-to-person-id-like-to-buy-the-world-a-coke), who's my go-to TV critic, read it the same way. Seitz seems mainly persuaded by how the episode feels (it feels somewhat happy, ergo the ending is happy), but I'm not sure I find that persuasive: Don's had lots of personal breakthroughs that feel happy in the moment but end up amounting to nothing. This disconnect has been the heart of the entire story so far.

Hardly surprising that a show like Mad Men would have a finale that can be read two highly different ways, though, eh?

Definitely agree with the latest part. I'm more eager to go with Seitz (also love his stuff), though, because I feel like the happy moments you might be referring to always had a more obviously cynical or at least skeptical aspect to them. For instance, in the episode where he decides to marry Megan, the season doesn't end with her saying "yes", but instead the episode goes on and it ends with them being judged by the other people at work, immediately creating a new dramatic problem. It feels more wrong and problematic.

I'm not saying that it's a definite happy ending, as Mad Men is too smart a TV show for that, but I do think the (happy) feeling of "hope" we get for Don's character is warranted.

Cobpyth

05-18-15, 05:18 PM

By the way, this is a cool clue:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFQlyKgUUAIjPS5.jpg

NatashaR

05-18-15, 07:15 PM

At first, when the episode ended I was thinking wtf is this...for a second it felt like it was from a different show with Don meditating lol, but then I realized what it was. I'm happy with the finale :) I think they wrapped it up quite elegantly.
I loved the ending for Peggy and especially for Joan :D

Monkeypunch

05-18-15, 10:14 PM

90sAce

05-19-15, 07:39 PM

I watched the finale - thought it was really good, felt that it ended a little too casually - the episode struck me like it could've been just another episode in the series, rather than a grand finale

christine

05-21-15, 07:14 PM

Just finished watching it and I LOVED IT!
Spent most of the last third crying, for Sally, for Don and happy for Peggy.
Thought it was PERFECT!

I'll come back tomorrow for more cos it's late now but I def agree with Aus about the Coke ad. So damn clever. Going to bed happy now :D

Austruck

05-21-15, 10:50 PM

By the way, this is a cool clue:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CFQlyKgUUAIjPS5.jpg
That's exactly what I said -- that the girl in the ad reminds us of the girl at the retreat! :)

Austruck

05-21-15, 10:53 PM

I'm still trying to puzzle out of it was a real happy ending or not. My first read was that Don was slipping back into his old cynicism even by the end of the episode, he had this look on his face while meditating that looked like "This is stupid" to me, even though he'd had his catharsis earlier. Then he finally smiles when he gets the idea, and he actually cheapens his search for belonging by making it into an advertisement for something that is incredibly bad for you. But I also think that he realized his true self at that moment, too. So I am going to rewatch this and figure things out more. It's a rare show that needs to be analyzed like this.

Weiner has come out and said the ending was supposed to be Don coming up with the ad idea, and also that it was supposed to be happy and upbeat. He called that ad the best commercial of all time ... and if you're my age, you'd have to agree with him. At the time it was almost revolutionary and it was so SIMPLE in its plea for everyone to come together and share something as innocuous as a Coca-Cola.

Remember, too, that back in 1971 (when that ad came out), folks didn't see Coke as a sinister product that was bad for you. You can't project current sensibilities about nutrition back 44 years. :)

I'll try to find the link to the post-finale interview with Weiner where he says all this happy-happy stuff plain as day...

christine

05-22-15, 12:34 PM

Weiner has come out and said the ending was supposed to be Don coming up with the ad idea, and also that it was supposed to be happy and upbeat. He called that ad the best commercial of all time ... and if you're my age, you'd have to agree with him. At the time it was almost revolutionary and it was so SIMPLE in its plea for everyone to come together and share something as innocuous as a Coca-Cola.

Remember, too, that back in 1971 (when that ad came out), folks didn't see Coke as a sinister product that was bad for you. You can't project current sensibilities about nutrition back 44 years. :) .

True. Coke wasn't the big bad sugary drink back then. Here in the UK it was part of the dream where we all thought everything American was fabulous! That same summer of '71 when I was 14, an American cousin of a friend came to stay with her family. This golden skinned blond teenager with perfect teeth was America in the flesh and when he bought us Coke when we went to the park cafe we really did think he was 'the Real Thing' :D
That ad caught the zeitgeist of the times perfectly - you couldn't help but sing along.

The real making of the advert (http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/ccmphtml/colaadv.html)

Yoda

05-22-15, 12:44 PM

I read the Weiner interview and I remember thinking it more as suggesting that interpretation rather than outright stating it. But it does seem that was his intent. I'm not sure how evident that intent is in the actual show, but there ya' go.

seanc

05-22-15, 12:49 PM

Have a Coke Yoda. The hapiness will just wash over you and all will become clear.

seanc

05-22-15, 12:50 PM

BTW did that Coke campaign make a comeback? Because I swear I remember it and since I was born in '76, I obviously didn't see it in '70.

christine

05-22-15, 01:16 PM

So, Don had his cathartic moment and an empathetic one too which we rarely see in Don the self absorbed. Those sobs felt real and were quite upsetting I thought. We'd waited for this and it wasn't a let down. The next morning looking out at sea I almost thought they were going to leave us there , nooo! not the staring into the great blue yonder finish! but thankfully it was far cleverer than that , it was a perfect moment with the small dawning smile of a great idea forming :)

He got his goodbye to Betty, really poignant too. 'Birdie'..I was in tears. Sally coming home and taking charge of her little brothers like the sensible, capable girl she is. She's going to be a great woman. Betty sitting there like a queen while Sally washes the dishes. I read a few lines from a Sylvia Plath poem at the weekend that reminds me of Betty with her perfect poise and self control.
Dying
Is an art, like everything else.
I do it exceptionally well.

I do it so it feels like hell.
I do it so it feels real.
I guess you could say I’ve a call.

I didn't think they'd give us Peggy and Stan, even though it's been clear for ages they're perfect for each other and already act like a bickering married couple who do actually love each other under the bluster. The phone call was wonderful. I cried (again)

Nearly got my wish for a Joan and Peggy business partnership! still, give it time. There could be room for Peggy and Stan in the business in future. So happy Joan got rid of Richard in the end. I wish she could've had some love, but he turned out to be a whining self centred selfish man. He didn't really want little Kevin either. Seeing Joan so happy organising her business was great .
Lovely to see Roger sorting out Kevin's future before going off with the capricious Madame Calvet - my goodness she's going to lead him a merry dance!

A perfect ending for Pete and Trudy too, like a dream. I loved the goodbye between Peggy and Pete - a goodbye made of respect for each other and no recriminations.

Looks like I've overused the word perfect, but no matter that's how it was :)

Thinking back we've come such a way through some important years of the 20th century. This played out in my lifetime and look at how life is for women at the end compared to the beginning. Sally will have the life that Betty probably dreamed of.

tramp

05-23-15, 07:54 PM

I enjoyed reading people's thoughts… I wanted to say that Weiner is just so brilliant, isn't he?

I loved the finale. But I wasn't sure at the time. I had to sit and think for a moment. I wasn't sure Don created the ad -- I had to wonder if that was me putting that onto Don, or did the writer intend for me to think that? Was it just a coincidence?

This show has always been about the never ending search for happiness. Where we find it. How we manufacture it. How we tell others what it is. So here it is, 1971, and Don is where so many went at the time to seek happiness -- into meditation, etc. Anyway, why I thought it was so perfect is that Weiner gave us happy endings we wanted for some of the characters. Endings that fit the characters. Even Don's -- oh yea. After letting the ending sink in, I was sure he created that ad. And that is what the smile was.

People don't really change. They grow, they experiment, but change? Don was an ad man. :)

What a great show. I also agree with christine -- when Don said, "Birdie," I couldn't even breathe. And Peggy saying, "what?" was priceless.

My only problem was Joan's story. I get that, once again, Joan cannot let a man define her, but she wanted love. Why couldn't we get that?

christine

05-24-15, 08:01 AM

Hey Tramp how lovely to see you. It'd be great to see you back posting again. Hope you and your family are all doing fine :)

Maybe Weiner chose Joan to represent the women that pushed the barrier into self employment and forward into it being normal for women to be head of companies. After she's suffered so much discrimination because of her appearance it was pretty cool for her to be doing something for herself. Maybe they stuck that guy Richard in at the end as a code for that kind of man who wants his little lady to stay at home - the times making him a dinosaur. It was a bit mean to cheat her out of love, but she had that new business in her mind and needed no distractions!

tramp

05-24-15, 09:54 AM

Hi christine -- glad to see you're still here!

Yea, I will agree that Joan does represent the woman doing something for herself.

So… I chose to believe that she will be very successful, and just when she's relaxing one day at a sunny cafe, she meets a lovely man who admires and loves her for her.

And they live happily ever after. :)

honeykid

06-03-15, 09:44 AM

I felt the last few episodes weren't my cup of tea, mainly because they didn't feel like Mad Men to me. The last episode resolved that a little and I really liked it... Until that ending. I actually clapped and had a huge smile on my face. That's Mad Men. Not only is Don back, not only has he managed to come back and turn everything to his advantage, but he's gone to create the pinnacle of not only his career but his profession. Proof, were it needed, that Don is special. He's the ultimate hustler. He does what he is and he is the best. Don always becomes the best again because Don's the one who manages to adapt to each new scenario/era/challenge quicker and/or better than everyone else.

I'd thought for a few years now that the two most likely endings for Don would be getting back with Betty (least likely) or him dying. Pete ended up getting the first one, which was great because Pete has the life Don would love to love to have. But he can't, because he's Don. Pete, who'd always wanted to be Don, finally realised in the final season that not only is he not Don, but that he doesn't really want to be either and he takes the ultimate personal risk to get back everything he truly wants and gets it in one go.

I loved the Peggy/Stan stuff. At last! And, as Christine has already said, that phone call was wonderful.

I can understand people feeling that Joan was a little hard done by, but he story has always been about being wanted or used for her body/look and, even when that wasn't the case, her look/body was still a factor, be it positive or negative. Finally she was the brain. She was in charge because she had the motivation, she had the drive, she had the idea, she had the money, she had the contacts. She was the new woman in a new business for a new era and how or what she looked like didn't only not matter, to her or to others, but it wasn't a factor.