Maybe I'm bitter

[FILMFREAK087]

Okay, I've probably touched on this topic before, but I feel like I should explain my feelings.

I constantly see episodes of tv dramas, media outlets, and talk shows discussing the topic of body image. It's almost always the same thing, an at least moderately attractive girl bellyaching because she's not a cheerleader.

I'm probably just embittered from my own physical challenges, but can you blame me? When you hear an able-bodied person trying to play the victim for attention, and then be expected to feel sorry for them, would you not feel a little annoyed? Oh really, you feel fat? I can't feel my legs!

I'm sorry, I have absolutely no pity for someone who is obsessed with vanity, and wants sympathy for it.

[eMilee]

no you aren't bitter just a realist! this world is too much about apperances and fake is the way some people view the world. like paris hilton, its no wonder little girls grow up to be questioning their self worth. in today's world, a person is judged by what clothes they wear and etc. as a whole, i just wonder how the rest of the world views this country. i agree with you, entirely!! now here lies the real question: what do we do to solve this issue or we lost entirely?

[FILMFREAK087]

no you aren't bitter just a realist! this world is too much about apperances and fake is the way some people view the world. like paris hilton, its no wonder little girls grow up to be questioning their self worth. in today's world, a person is judged by what clothes they wear and etc. as a whole, i just wonder how the rest of the world views this country. i agree with you, entirely!! now here lies the real question: what do we do to solve this issue or we lost entirely?


Yeah, my point is that because they "feel bad about themselves," they are given attention, so the talkshows and media promote them to act as victims to get sympathy. Meanwhile, there are people out there with disabilities and various REAL life challenges that don't complain near as much.

[king_of_movies_316]

I've gotta be 100% with you, so don't be offended.

You may be worse off than non-disabled folk, but i think that "average" or "non-good looking people" have as much of a right to complain as anyone else.

Yes they might not be as bad in a situation as you, but that doesnt mean they still don't have the same bad feelings about their bodys as you may have. What your saying is like saying that people don't have the right to be sad about things unless a certain amount of bad happens to them. What im saying is everyone can feel as sad as they want about anything regardless of how bad their situation is.


Honestly though, "everyone" in society is all like "we hate the media making everyone think that they have to look a certain way" but then once "everyone" is in the situation where they have the choice between sleeping with the obese women with the facial hair or the atractive skinny blonde women with big boobs, "everyone" would obviously forget about how much they hate the media's evil ways and have a great night with the blonde.

Again, don't take what i just said personaly (mainly the last paragraph).

[FILMFREAK087]

I've gotta be 100% with you, so don't be offended.

You may be worse off than non-disabled folk, but i think that "average" or "non-good looking people" have as much of a right to complain as anyone else.

Yes they might not be as bad in a situation as you, but that doesnt mean they still don't have the same bad feelings about their bodys as you may have. What your saying is like saying that people don't have the right to be sad about things unless a certain amount of bad happens to them. What im saying is everyone can feel as sad as they want about anything regardless of how bad their situation is.


Honestly though, "everyone" in society is all like "we hate the media making everyone think that they have to look a certain way" but then once "everyone" is in the situation where they have the choice between sleeping with the obese women with the facial hair or the atractive skinny blonde women with big boobs, "everyone" would obviously forget about how much they hate the media's evil ways and have a great night with the blonde.

Again, don't take what i just said personaly (mainly the last paragraph).


I never said only certain people have a right to feel a certain way, I was saying that if you are someone dealing with physical disabilities, which quite frankly is more life inhibiting, that it's difficult to feed someone sympathy for their own narcissistic insecurity about their features or weight.

I actually agree with your second statement, the media it's self has a continuity issue; one minute they run a story about how overweight people feel badly about themselves, then the next story is about overwhelming obesity. It's true we all want attractive mates, which is why they are concerned with their looks. What I'm saying is that at some point everyone needs to grow up and realize maybe they aren't a supermodel and get over it. I guess being crippled you're forced to just accept it.

[king_of_movies_316]

I never said only certain people have a right to feel a certain way, I was saying that if you are someone dealing with physical disabilities, which quite frankly is more life inhibiting, that it's difficult to feed someone sympathy for their own narcissistic insecurity about their features or weight.

I actually agree with your second statement, the media it's self has a continuity issue; one minute they run a story about how overweight people feel badly about themselves, then the next story is about overwhelming obesity. It's true we all want attractive mates, which is why they are concerned with their looks. What I'm saying is that at some point everyone needs to grow up and realize maybe they aren't a supermodel and get over it. I guess being crippled you're forced to just accept it.

Oh, sorry for the misunderstanding, i get what you mean.

As for the media, they do what you just mentioned all the time. I remember watching some a current afairs program or something and there was a story on how the modeling industry was bad as you must be skinny to be a model and then they went on about how it was alright to be overweight as it makes you normal. The program following that show was, The Biggest Loser.

[TONGO]

When I saw the thread title I thought it said Maybe Im Biter, and I thought "biter?!" reminding me of the first girl I was ever with then I saw "bitter" and it made alot more sense.

Whenever I start stressing work or dwelling on lifes hypocrisy, and preposterousness I go too the news. Kids geting maimed, losing families, and other horrific stuff decided upon strangers to them of great intelligence, and influence. Then I STFU.

If you really want to get wound up watch MTV Cribs. LOL! Oh fack is that the most ridiculous reality show on stupidity I dont know what is! They just piss their money away in the most stupidly expensive way. Russell Simmons has a $250,000.00 marble toilet. A 1/4 of a million dollar john! Makes some 17 year old california girl wanting a boob job look like a genious.

Id love to tell you "Hey youre not bitter" but you are just a little. Stupidity is so damn abundant in life never feel youre behind the curve because of a wheelchair. Thats the way it is. Never with bitterness because that would spring from envy.....and lets just say its better to be you rather than a stupidass that can walk. A person can truly gain depth sometimes thru a handicap because overcoming such a completely monumental handicap takes wells of inner strength. Reevaluate yourself and look at things correctly because youre not some second rate human being. If you dont feel convinced watch The Jerry Springer Show then tell me youre lower on the food chain than them. Or watch the news and dare yourself to feel self-pity.

Basically youre allright. Now stop forgetting it, and laugh at those shallow dumbasses. Hope somewhere in all that babble this helped.

[FILMFREAK087]

What irritates me, is that in the media as a whole, the card that's played is that men are the reason for women getting plastic surgery and they are victims. I don't see them any more a victim than a man who buys an overpriced car, or a motorcycle to attract women. The reason they get breast implants and liposuction isn't to attract a guy with a "nice personality," anymore then a man buys a motorcycle to attract a nice woman. Yet they are portrayed as victims, and not just as selfish, and narcissistic as men are.

Yeah, and I can tell you from first-hand experience, most women aren't any kinder than men. I have had several, when I was in school especially, make rather rude comments about my disabilities. So being made to feel like garbage isn't gender-specific. I've been with a few girls that weren't as cruel, so I'm not blaming an entire gender as the media likes to do.

[beelzebubbles]

If the media is causing your bitterness, unplug yourself. Experience the world without that filter for a while or forever.

[honeykid]

BB's right, if you can, then turn it all off. My sister lives, in what she calls, "her bubble". She never watches the news or reads newspapers. She has no interest in what's happening outside of anything she likes or decides to take an interest in and she's happy that way and, let's face it, no worse of than those of us who follow what's going on in the world.

To give you some idea of just how total this is, she didn't know anything about the 2004 Boxing Day Tsunami until she went back to work... 7 days later! It had all passed her by and she had no idea what everyone at work was talking about. Was she any worse off for it? No, of course she wasn't.

[Miss Vicky]

That's pretty much what I do, HK. I don't read the paper, I don't read articles online (unless a headline happens to catch my eye, which is rare) and I don't watch the news.

I figure anything that is important will most likely be discussed by my coworkers or on the various messageboards I post on. It works for me.

[TONGO]

I agree. The news is far from a building experience.

[7thson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo2ksIVXxR4

[rufnek]

Okay, I've probably touched on this topic before, but I feel like I should explain my feelings.

I constantly see episodes of tv dramas, media outlets, and talk shows discussing the topic of body image. It's almost always the same thing, an at least moderately attractive girl bellyaching because she's not a cheerleader.

I'm probably just embittered from my own physical challenges, but can you blame me? When you hear an able-bodied person trying to play the victim for attention, and then be expected to feel sorry for them, would you not feel a little annoyed? Oh really, you feel fat? I can't feel my legs!

I'm sorry, I have absolutely no pity for someone who is obsessed with vanity, and wants sympathy for it.

On the other hand, some people complain some handicapped people are self-centered and manipulative. I've known some who were--my second wife, for example--but I also understand that to have any quality of life at all or even to survive, they have to learn how to get help or whatever else they need the best they can. I don't condemn them for it.

It's all part of the conflicting standards and images within our society. Back when Rubin and other artists were painting fat-ish Lords and Ladies, fat was beautiful because it showed you were so wealthy you got more than you needed to eat. Skinny was poor and ugly. Today society has convinced many females they need to look like Barbie and guys need to look like Ken. Thin is in in a nation that has more obese inhabitants than any other country on earth. Under those conditions, someone sounds silly complaining she or he is 5 lbs overweight. Who could tell? But it's an unhealthy mental obsession for some, just as crippling in some ways as polio. I mean, is there anything weirder than bust and butt implants???

All depends on whose ox is getting gored.

[rufnek]

Yeah, my point is that because they "feel bad about themselves," they are given attention, so the talkshows and media promote them to act as victims to get sympathy. Meanwhile, there are people out there with disabilities and various REAL life challenges that don't complain near as much.

That gate swings both ways, friend. Look at all the attention Christopher Reeve got after his riding accident. Getting on the couch of the Tonight Show depends a lot less on whether you've got a story to tell than whether you've got a name that people recognize. Madonna gets an audience whether she's talking about music, writing about sex, adopting an orphan from overseas, or just has a bad hair day. Don't matter--people will tune her in no matter what. You and I could have the key to world peace, and the only way we'd get on TV is buy some ad time.

Pretty is what sells tickets. What do you think the proportion of ugly young male TV stars is to handsome young male TV stars? Ugly female stars are even fewer.

[FILMFREAK087]

On the other hand, some people complain some handicapped people are self-centered and manipulative. I've known some who were--my second wife, for example--but I also understand that to have any quality of life at all or even to survive, they have to learn how to get help or whatever else they need the best they can. I don't condemn them for it.

Today society has convinced many females they need to look like Barbie and guys need to look like Ken. Thin is in in a nation that has more obese inhabitants than any other country on earth. Under those conditions, someone sounds silly complaining she or he is 5 lbs overweight. Who could tell? But it's an unhealthy mental obsession for some, just as crippling in some ways as polio. I mean, is there anything weirder than bust and butt implants???

All depends on whose ox is getting gored.



First of all, many people are manipulative and self-centered, the fact that you are trying to create a correlation between the disabled and those traits seems rather ignorant. I never said that all disabled people were morally, or emotionally superior to non-disabled.

Secondly, no I don't consider it a REAL disability, maybe it is a disability, but it's not to be compared to being quadropalegic, parapalegic, blind, or having a neurological dysfunction. What's more it is derived from being self-absorbed and vain, the very traits you claim that disabled people exhibit.

My point is that it seems that the amount of attention those people get seems ridiculous, considering the myriad of people out there with REAL physical, mental challenges. Most of these supposed "sufferes" are nothing more than people that just want sympathy, chances are they'd love to have a disability, as to garner more sympathy. I don't think they should be encouraged.

[FILMFREAK087]

That gate swings both ways, friend. Look at all the attention Christopher Reeve got after his riding accident. Getting on the couch of the Tonight Show depends a lot less on whether you've got a story to tell than whether you've got a name that people recognize. Madonna gets an audience whether she's talking about music, writing about sex, adopting an orphan from overseas, or just has a bad hair day. Don't matter--people will tune her in no matter what. You and I could have the key to world peace, and the only way we'd get on TV is buy some ad time.

Pretty is what sells tickets. What do you think the proportion of ugly young male TV stars is to handsome young male TV stars? Ugly female stars are even fewer.




I'm not disagreeing with you, I agree, we're all attracted to attractive people. I'm sick of hearing; "the media makes me feel bad about myself and I can't take it!" Try being a cripple, and being reminded of your own limitations by just going to the store, or the park, or anywhere. Again, the issue of gender is brought up, hey, between James Van Der Beek, and Corky from Life Goes On, which would the "average-looking" girl, that feels fat, choose? You can't claim you are a victim of a staus quo, that you yourself are a part of.

[rufnek]

First of all, many people are manipulative and self-centered, the fact that you are trying to create a correlation between the disabled and those traits seems rather ignorant.

Had you really read my post, which requires actually thinking about what I was saying instead of merely reacting to certain words that fit your own predjudice, you would have noticed I said "some people complain some handicapped people are self-centered and manipulative." You also would have noticed I went on to say, "I understand that to have any quality of life at all or even to survive, they have to learn how to get help or whatever else they need the best they can. I don't condemn them for it." That is one hell of a long way from what you passed off as some blanket condemnation of the handicapped.

Based on my own associations with and observations of handicapped people, including some months as a patient in a polio ward in my youth and more than 20 years of marriage to another polio victim who still wears braces on her legs, I know some of the handicapped have cheerier dispositions and overcome obstacles easier than others. Consider for instance the quadriplegic woman who just this week completed the circumnavigation of Britain alone in a small vessel. Her husband and children were waiting at the dock when she completed the last leg of her trip. The news account of her fete didn't include her feelings about people who have full or even partial use of their arms and upper bodies, but I suspect she was too busy steering her vessel by puffing through a straw to worry about her own or other's problems with self-image.

Way I see it, the distribution of the good and bad elements of this world is just one giant spin of the wheel of chance. The chips fall where they may, with no reguard of what's "right" or what's "fair." I once read somewhere that the chance of being born with beautiful symetrical features is exactly the same as the chance of being born with Downes (sp?) syndrome. Either way, to take part in the game of life you gotta play the cards you're dealt.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Filmfreak, I salute you for vocalizing your disdain for cry babies who moan and groan about being a little fat or something. In my personal opinion, though it may seem easier to have a sunny disposition about being handicapped, NOT EVERYONE is gonna be that way. I'm sure I wouldn't. I'm depressed and I have the nerve to call myself "Sexy Celebrity" on the internet and believe it in real life. I'm sure you'd love to change bodies with me and I'm sure I wouldn't with you. I honor you for keeping it real, which is why I'm gonna keep it real with you too.

But I don't know what else to say. What are you gonna do about the quacking of so called "ugly ducklings" wanting to be a little prettier? Slit their throats? Then you're handicapped and in prison for the rest of your life. That wouldn't be better. You can't turn off that noise in the world anymore than you can tell the birds to shut the f*** up every morning with their sing-songs.

Keep venting out your frustrations, though. I know I would.

[FILMFREAK087]

Had you really read my post, which requires actually thinking about what I was saying instead of merely reacting to certain words that fit your own predjudice, you would have noticed I said "some people complain some handicapped people are self-centered and manipulative." You also would have noticed I went on to say, "I understand that to have any quality of life at all or even to survive, they have to learn how to get help or whatever else they need the best they can. I don't condemn them for it." That is one hell of a long way from what you passed off as some blanket condemnation of the handicapped.

Based on my own associations with and observations of handicapped people, including some months as a patient in a polio ward in my youth and more than 20 years of marriage to another polio victim who still wears braces on her legs, I know some of the handicapped have cheerier dispositions and overcome obstacles easier than others. Consider for instance the quadriplegic woman who just this week completed the circumnavigation of Britain alone in a small vessel. Her husband and children were waiting at the dock when she completed the last leg of her trip. The news account of her fete didn't include her feelings about people who have full or even partial use of their arms and upper bodies, but I suspect she was too busy steering her vessel by puffing through a straw to worry about her own or other's problems with self-image.

Way I see it, the distribution of the good and bad elements of this world is just one giant spin of the wheel of chance. The chips fall where they may, with no reguard of what's "right" or what's "fair." I once read somewhere that the chance of being born with beautiful symetrical features is exactly the same as the chance of being born with Downes (sp?) syndrome. Either way, to take part in the game of life you gotta play the cards you're dealt.


I may have had a knee-jerk reaction to your statement, but I'm not disagreeing with you on the points you make, I think possibly you too are taking my points the wrong way.

[KasperKristensen]

Yeah, my point is that because they "feel bad about themselves," they are given attention, so the talkshows and media promote them to act as victims to get sympathy. Meanwhile, there are people out there with disabilities and various REAL life challenges that don't complain near as much.
I've always viewed talkshows like Dr. Phil or Jerry Springer like they're methods for "normal" people to feel better about themselves. I think it's horrible and I can see why you're pissed. When the drug abusers swim in a sea of sympathy on Dr. Phil, it makes me sick. They brought it on themselves, whereas people like you probably had an accident, were born disabled or maybe even defended their country and got disabled that way. They're are people who deserve sympathy and then there're people who just need to shut the **** up. Including Dr. Phil.

[honeykid]

Like most other things on tv/in the news/whatever, you hear about them because someone's making money from it. But never forget that, while they're bleating on about something that's trivial, it's not trivial to them. Their pain, angst, fear, anger and everything else is just as real to them as their feelings about everything else and everyone else.

Every year I hear about kids who kill themselves because they're being bullied or they failed exams or, even worse, thought they'd fail. Obviously that's ridiculous. Even if they were bullied everyday for the rest of their school life, it will end. Exams? You can take them again if necessary. It's not the end of the world, but they are made to think that it is and, sadly for some, suicide seems the best way to escape. I'm sure that the last thought many of them had were, "****! What am I doing?" but it's too late by then. But, at that time, they'd been lead to believe that it was a big deal, so can you really be suprised when they moan/act out/kill themselves.

As for the people on programmes like Jerry Springer, Oprah, Dr. Phil, etc they're puppets or clockwork toys. They're wound up and brought on to perform in an as exaggerated way as possible, then taken off and sent away. Also, you'll rarely see anyone on these programmes who's problem can't be solved by talking, a 'boot camp' or some other kind of behavioural treatment or alteration.

Think about it. If you (FF) were a guest on the show. They bring you on, they talk to you and find out you're a really nice person. The audience likes you, they feel for you as the people at home watching do. Then the host says "Well, it's been an honour to meet you, but there's **** all I can do. Bye." What kind of show is that? What a ****ing downer. The host doesn't get to 'fix you' or tell you something that'll obviously address the situation, usually to stop or start doing something that's harming you/others/a relationship. The audience can't shout things out at you or take a side, because there's only one side and no one wants to be the one seen being nasty to a cripple anyway.

The other version of these programmes is the freak show, now I don't know what your condition is, but I guessing that you wouldn't make it on for one of those. You know the drill, it's the one where the host says something like "Bob weighs 1,000lbs. Doctors have told Bob that he's only got 3 months to live, unless he can lose 300lbs in that time." or "Meet Kelly. Kelly is a perfectly normal 30 year old woman... Except she was born without eyes." Now, normally, these kind of people wouldn't be on the show because, like you there's nothing the host can do to help. However, as they're freaks (and they are. The 1,000lbs man is the 400lbs man with sympathy and the no eyes girl is the next step from blind, but no one's going to tune in for the "blind woman show") the money people know that the viewers will tune in for them out of curiosity, if nothing else and, as long as people tune in, they'll put anyone on... Even if they have to change the entire format of the show which, at the moment, there's no need to do.

[mark f]

I think some people watch too much TV. "That's part of your problem: you haven't seen enough movies. All of life's riddles are answered in the movies."

[Sexy Celebrity]

Why do people always pooh-pooh Oprah and Dr. Phil? I've never really seen an episode of either show that has disgusted me with what they do. Jerry Springer, yes, but it's sometimes entertaining, especially when transsexuals steal boyfriends. JUST DON'T MAKE ME HAVE TO BE ON HIS SHOW!

And if someone's committing suicide over failing exams, COME ON, I wanna hear about it! Let's let the world hear about it. These are real people DYING. Are we supposed to avert our eyes to the death tolls that wars bring? Why shouldn't we take teenage suicide seriously?

Just because Oprah's fat and makes millions is no reason to mock everything the woman does.

[honeykid]

SC, was all that directed at my post? I'm a bit confused, so I won't answer it all. However, as you mentioned the exam suicides that I did, I'll take it that that part, at least, was meant for me. Who said anything about not taking teen suicide seriously? Not me. I said it was ridiculous to kill yourself because you failed or are afraid of failing an exam, and it is. But I didn't say that it was trivial.

http://www.women24.com/Women24/PregnancyParenting/School/Article/0,,1-9-35_20231,00.html
South Africa

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3758359.stm
http://www.headliners.org/storylibrary/stories/1996/teensuicide.htm?id=1862183472895147754670
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4791211.stm
Britain

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jWKoF-D0K1OcSdsnm3Dxey96kGzA
India

http://www.koreasparkle.com/2008/11/a-prayer-for-korean-high-school-students/
South Korea

[Sexy Celebrity]

Every year I hear about kids who kill themselves because they're being bullied or they failed exams or, even worse, thought they'd fail. Obviously that's ridiculous. Even if they were bullied everyday for the rest of their school life, it will end.

I just thought there was something a bit cold about this. It seems like you're saying... "Tough it out. Once school is over, you're no longer bullied. No need to commit suicide."

Good advice, and I don't know what to do about the bully situation in schools, but I don't think it's easy for every kid. I think there are kids out there who, for some reason, think a lot about suicide over these things -- and then act it out.

And what's wrong with Oprah and Dr. Phil doing shows about it?

[honeykid]

It's certainly not easy for every kid. Let's be honest, being that age isn't easy for any kid. Even those who look back on it as the best time of their life are doing it through a filter of a good number of years.

As for being cold, it might be, but it is true. Obviously I wouldn't word it like that to someone going through it, nor would I leave it at that, I'd make sure that something was being done, but at no point is it worth killing yourself over because it will end when school does.

I suppose that, in the scope of 'talking making it better', I did include suicide but that didn't have anything to do with the thrust of my argument. My point was just because someone was complaining about the shape of their nose or how fat they were, didn't mean that they didn't have real worries or that their concerns weren't real.

When I brought in the talkshows, I was talking about how you wouldn't usually see people like FF on them because there's nothing they can do for him and there's no 'pull' for an audience.

[Classicqueen13]

I agree with Filmfreak's original statement. Every other teenage girl in America thinks they're fat right now because they weigh over 100 pounds. Then, the few girls who are happy with their figures are considered stuck up. I, for one, am very happy with my appearance, but no one wants to hear that.

[honeykid]

Forget teenager girls, almost every woman thinks she's fat. I've seen the results of studies where women were shown a series of photographs. When shown the photo of women the same size/weight they are, they usually say that the woman in the photo is thinner/weighs less than they do. The women who they think are the same size as them are usually 2 dress sizes bigger than the woman being shown the photo.

[Sexy Celebrity]

When I brought in the talkshows, I was talking about how you wouldn't usually see people like FF on them because there's nothing they can do for him and there's no 'pull' for an audience.

Well, if a TV show wanted to talk about his medical issues, there's always the new Dr. Oz show that's starting (or has started?) this month. But that guy is always out to show how YOU can improve your health... I'm not sure how he'd deal with FF unless it's like, "Hey, here's a teenager in a wheelchair who can't feel his legs. May I interest you, America, in learning about his condition?"

Oprah could always bring FF on to discuss his emotional issues, though I'm not sure what FF would talk about. It would be nice if she gave him free reign to rant about anorexic girls who feel fat, though personally I'd rather see FF on Oprah discussing his phobia of checkups requiring him to undress in front of sexy female nurses, which is something he's discussed here on Movie Forums. Oprah might give him a free new luxury wheelchair for that.

Sorry, FF, I'm just trying to make you feel good. Honeykid just basically said you're not TV material! Cold, cold, cold! :D

[honeykid]

... I'm not sure how he'd deal with FF unless it's like, "Hey, here's a teenager in a wheelchair who can't feel his legs. May I interest you, America, in learning about his condition?"

I don't see that happening any time soon.

Sorry, FF, I'm just trying to make you feel good. Honeykid just basically said you're not TV material! Cold, cold, cold! :D

I said that from the beginning, that was the point! I'm starting to think that you didn't actually read it all the way through, SC.

As FF knows (or at least I hope he does) this isn't a personal thing. I didn't say "You're not tv matieral" as a person. What I said was (and I'll give you the Cliff Notes version here so everyone can follow it) someone with his condition is unlikely (read "almost never") going to be on one of those shows because there's no money (i.e. advertisers/audience) in it and, until there is, it'll stay that way. Of course, if FF was going to marry a horse or was the third person in a love triangle or something like that, then he'd be on without fail. Actually, in that case, his condition would be an added bonus.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Oh, dear. Let's not get into love triangles -- been there, done that, received zero amount of exposure on Jerry Springer.

I do think it's wrong to assume that FF can only get on a talk show if he goes to announce his horsey wedding plans or, *SURPRISE!*, I'm dating Wendy AND Wendy's mom, Janice!

I remember seeing an episode of Oprah or something - no, wait, it was Regis and Kelly - where they awarded lots of money to a family because the wife was injured when robbers broke into their home and she was left paralyzed and in a wheelchair for the rest of her life.

Although, GOOD POINT, Honeykid. Look at that. She may have been handicapped, but not until criminals made her that way. FF wasn't made handicapped by criminals, thus he's not likely to be on Regis and Kelly and get money.

I dunno what to say now. It's 2 AM and I'm exhausted.

[FILMFREAK087]

I'm not paralyzed. Nor am I Rocky Dennis, but I just get tired of hearing the same whiny crap from people who are considered victims, and blame vanity, that they themselves play into. As I've said before, the reason they're so miserable is because they want someone who is attractive, so their real problem is wanting what those "big bad" media outlets present, the ones they blame so much for their own feelings of inadequacy. They say guys have ridiculous expectations, but what are they trying to get?

[mack]

hmm.

i dont know. i think that we prolly all agree that there are levels of pain, and a sliding scale in terms of seriousness of problems to cope with in life. so yeah - if we were triaging (sp?) emotional and physical ailments, then I'd agree the therapist needs to spend more with

(a) the kid who was molested/raped by her family members, bounced from foster home to foster home, hooked on drugs, involved in subsequent abusive (teenage) relationships, dabbled in a lil child porn, potentially hooked a few times and may or may not have a pimp, and tried to kill herself a few times

as opposed to say....

(b) the kid who's languishing in the horrific despair of a dsyfunctional home and ....y'know.....parental neglect. I mean, her mom and dad pay her no attention - they just throw money at her. and the expectations! wow. the expectations - well, she's crushed under the weight of their expectations. ;) to combat that she engages in consistently escalated rebellion, with its attendant dangers, etc., yadda yadda.

The example is quite cliche, but I think the point is clear - kid a may be suffering more than kid b. However, contrary to popular opinion, it doesnt mean kid b doesnt have problems.

(Many) People who suffer from severe physical malady often deal with a whole host of emotional problems that tag along with it. But just because a person is handicapped does NOT make them Mother Teresa. :nope: Not everyone handles it well, and in fact, some quite badly.

As a caretaker of a generally sickly parent, who is consistently plagued with one severe handicap or another, I can honestly say that the greatest danger handicapped people face is self-pity. What they have faced, are facing (or have surmounted) is unenviable, and very hard. A tendency is to wallow in bitterness, recriminations and self-pity. At worst, they lash out and become abusive (physically, emotionally, or verbally) to the people around them.

Top that off they become self-destructive.

Top that off they forcibly make themselves and their pain the center of everyone's universe. No other existence or happiness or "lesser" suffering allowed. Because dont you get it? NO ONE has suffered what they've suffered! In this way, the self-consumed, self-hating angry handicapped person slowly alienates him/herself from everyone else with their venom and vitriol, and requirement that everyone in their purview bow and worship at the altar of their anguish and pain.

your pain is nothing next to their pain. ever. not today. not tomorrow. not ever. and even if you acknowledge that, you'll have to acknowledge it again tomorrow, and the next month, and the next year, and forever, or until they're no longer bitter and self-focused.

it is how, inevitably, angry ill people end up driving away everyone who cares about them. they make everyone around them pay, and pay, and pay, and pay.

everyone hurts about something, however mediocre. do we want to glorify stupid stuff, and mollycoddle people? not at all. I'm not saying that. all I'm saying is that people are human beings, and they have things that bother them. there HAS to be an appropriate outlet for them to express that pain.

if someone scratches my luxury car (example) its gonna hurt me. yes, it may be insensitive of me to go on and on about it to the girl riding the bus. however, im going to tell someone - im going to BOND about it with someone - and if i cant tell her, then i'll probably go and be in the presence of someone I can tell.

if you want people to be around you, and to WANT to be around you, you have to allow them to be themselves......occasionally, at least.

and if the outlet is never in your presence, then you should understand why they dont want to be in your presence all the time.

my parent once asked us why we would all leave or the conversation would end when they came around. one day - i just explained to them that they made every conversation they were a part of......uncomfortable, bitter, and about themselves. We couldve been talking about the Bears, or the White Sox or the weather, but it always came back around to their horrible life, and who done them wrong. They complained a lot. They enjoyed being miserable. So I told them - "you enjoy misery, and I dont. you complain, and you whine, and its not that the things you are saying arent true, but when do we get to be happy? we were happy before you came in. we just want to keep being happy."

everyone has a right to vent, but most people vent and move on. this went beyond regular venting, because it was a lifestyle. so now, we have an agreement that I tell them when they cross the line from normalcy to You're-Making-Us-Not-Want-To-Be-Around-You.

everyone has their angry days, months, years even. I guess I'm saying that I find I much prefer the company of people who try having a cheerful disposition. Choose happiness. And dont begrudge other people their "small" problems. Though imperfect, they are human beings are well. ;)

[Sexy Celebrity]

What you said makes a lot of sense, Mack, but I have to say that I feel bad for people who are nursing old grievances (urgh, count me among that list) and are still hurting. I feel bad if people are turning away from them.

I think that... ultimately... our actions may be against our will. I'm not really sure if I believe in free will. If people are moping and groping about something forever, it could be a chemical imbalance or something genetic. Something about them on a deep level, I guess. I mean, we can have faulty hearts, faulty stomachs, faulty lungs, faulty arms and legs... why not faulty brains and minds?

Traumatic experiences linger in the brain. They can, however, be reprocessed. I'm reading something about that now, actually. If Filmfreak is complaining all the time about vain people, it may not necessarily be just because he's in a wheelchair, but also because of all the collected experiences he's had to go through, due to being in a wheelchair and probably due to other reasons too. We are all complex. We're not fully aware of everything going on inside of us. Our brains are filing cabinets very much like a computer. Imagine a sneaky trojan or a virus living in a file, causing corruption but not letting itself be fully visible. We all have trojans and viruses in places in our mind, causing disruption. I'm not saying they're organic viruses you pick up in the air ~ they're just issues we develop, brain calculations that go in odd directions, cause problems. Yeah, that's it. That's what I'm saying. This is me at 5 AM.

[mack]

dont get me wrong - on that level i totally agree with you Sexy, and im not at ll lacking in empathy - i feel for FF as well.

...

But you do realize that the argument you just made for an obsession with one's current or past hurts is perfectly applicable to vain girls whining about being fat, right? television affects men as well as women. who's to say they didnt have some guy reject them because they didnt look like Buffy? he watched Buffy, and now he thinks all girls have to look like Buffy before he dates them. now, instead of rejecting that ideal, and all the guys who hold them to it - the girls are obsessing about looking as skinny or as blonde as Buffy. it is a cycle, and its why people need to turn off the TV and occasionally live in the real world, with real people. that, or at the very least, realize there is a difference between the two.

Why is that pain trivial?

[FILMFREAK087]

I've never seen so many posts continually miss my point. . .

First, I never said there are not those in worse positions than myself, as a matter of fact I recall a story about a girl with a rare skin condition, which caused her skin to break very easily and most of her body was cocooned in scar tissue.

Second, I don't know how to state this more clearly; the fact that girls complain that there is undue stress imposed on them to look a certain way, when in reality the stress stems from their own vain campaign to seek a mate that they find acceptable and attractive, seems to drown in the irony. The media doesn't tell people what to find attractive, if they did they wouldn't spend so much on research and test screenings. These women like to separate themselves from the more shallow tendencies of our culture, and act as though THEY are the only ones with any expectations placed on them. Let me ask you, if one of these girls with the oh so fragile ego, were given a choice between a wheelchair bound outcast, or the captain of the football team; would she not give in to the supposed "media programming?" so all I'm saying is, don't act like you're an exception to the status quo. I'm not, and no one is.

[Sexy Celebrity]

Although the captain of the football team sounds hot in theory, there are exceptions where the football player can be ugly and the wheelchair guy is hot. And if the wheelchair guy is hot AND deep, sensitive, compassionate, caring... OMG! HOT WHEELS!

[Sexy Celebrity]

Hey, everybody, guess what? It's HOT WHEELCHAIR GUY time!!!!

http://www.criticalbench.com/images/inter-John-Quinn3.jpg
http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/Wheelchair-Basketball.jpg
http://www.ucsf-ahp.org/HTML2/images_livingwithHIV/wheelchair%20man%201.jpg
http://www.esrcsocietytoday.ac.uk/ESRCInfoCentre/Images/IS647-061_wheelchair%20bloke%20by%20steps_tcm6-11888.jpg
http://www.ncaonline.org/files/nca_images/product_directory_images/VRS506_Versatile_Rest_System.jpg
* I want this one ~ he's a real man.
http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1433/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1433R-943457.jpg
http://www.industrialdiamondcbn.com/man%20in%20a%20wheelchair%205.gif
http://a-teammedical.com/image/2221394.jpeg
http://www.rtcsouthernnevada.com/transit/paratransit/images/man_wheelchair.jpg
http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/onion_imagearticle1394.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ycDNFvuelSI/R6y0Jd5zv4I/AAAAAAAAAMo/O9eCWRQM2zA/s720/WheelchairBasketball03_JB.jpg
I am guessing this guy just got out of his wheelchair. I'd climb on top of this guy. He looks more exciting than Mount Everest.

[Lennon]

Is it just me or does that gun look like it's being pointed at the old gys head? :D.

[mack]

aww FilmFreak, I think you need a hug.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzyYii4ZXRw