View Full Version : Do You Pray?
John McClane
06-19-09, 07:39 PM
I was quite surprised to see that we don't have a poll on this subject. I'm not looking for heated argumentative posting (then again, when has that ever stopped anyone from starting one? ;)). I'm totally open to reasonable discussion and debate, though.
So do you pray, or not?
No. Jesus likely has caller ID and he wouldn't recognize my name or pick up my number.
Brother Blue
06-19-09, 08:09 PM
No.
honeykid
06-19-09, 08:37 PM
Not unless I want something.
*That's not true, I just like to say it because it annoys people that do. :D *
No, I don't pray. I don't believe in God, so I have no reason to.
So, I'm just wondering... when things go well for you (even "small" things such as avoiding a car accident or a red light)... do you ever say "Thank you" under your breath or in your mind? If you do, who are you thanking? God? The Flying Spaghetti Monster? Local government employees? Yourself? It doesn't matter to me. I'm just interested in who else does this, and who thinks it's weird and alien to their own life.
So, I'm just wondering... when things go well for you (even "small" things such as avoiding a car accident or a red light)... do you ever say "Thank you" under your breath or in your mind? If you do, who are you thanking?
Hello.
I'm not sure exactly, who I'm thanking.
It's more of an automatic comment.
I would say some supreme being, or being lucky.
I'm just interested in who else does this, and who thinks it's weird and alien to their own life.
It's not weird at all.
It makes life interesting to think about things.
Right now, I'm trying to grasp how the universe supposedly doesn't end.
Holden Pike
06-19-09, 09:43 PM
No prayer for me. Only in the "swear there ain't no Heaven and I pray there ain't no Hell" sense. It has gotten me this far.
So Holds, you never mumble a "Thank you" now and again? I mean outside the general vicinity of a woman, but even so...
Mrs. Darcy
06-19-09, 09:55 PM
Occasionally. More frequently when someone asks me to keep another person in my prayers.
r3port3r66
06-19-09, 10:01 PM
Yes I do!
Caitlyn
06-19-09, 10:08 PM
Yes... in my own way...
FILMFREAK087
06-19-09, 10:24 PM
Nope. . .
honeykid
06-19-09, 11:37 PM
So, I'm just wondering... when things go well for you (even "small" things such as avoiding a car accident or a red light)... do you ever say "Thank you" under your breath or in your mind?
I don't ever remember saying something like that with something "small", as you put it, honestly I don't. However, something truly small, like throwing a double six so I can get out of jail when playing Monopoly or something like that, I certainly have. Who am I saying it to? No one. It's just a reaction I've learned, like "Yessssss!" or "Whoo-hoo!". Why do I sometimes say "Pardon me" and other times "Excuse me"? I don't know, I make no conscious decision to use one over the other and I don't have a preference. Maybe there are subconscious triggers in the enviroment that make me use one rather than the other but, as they'd be subconscious, I have no idea what they are.
rice1245
06-19-09, 11:46 PM
I say thank god all the time but am a complete atheist. Maybe God is my nickname for coincidence or luck or something lol, it is just a phrase that has been engraved in my brain since i was little just like 'oh my god' and sometimes i exclaim 'JESUS CHRIST' when people are going crazy or something but really why am i yelling at Jesus? i dunno haha
But i really don't think it's my subconscious wanting/believing in a God it's like what Honeykid said, to me it's the same as 'thank goodness' but am i really thanking...good things? Maybe? i dunno! that's all i can ever manage to say in these religious threads. I dunno.
John McClane
06-19-09, 11:50 PM
I think when people who say thank God, but don't believe in that stuff it's merely them just recognizing, "Oh crap, I just had no control over that situation, but I got out safely!" I mean, that's just me shooting an opinion off from the hip.
Quite personally, I find it silly when people who don't believe it say thank God and someone hears them and tries to hold the saying at face value, and what's equally silly is when people say thank science or thank Darwin just to avoid using a common phrase such as thank God.
Is that your way of saying that you do it but have no logical explanation? I've only said "Thank Darwin" at this site to raise a laugh, but I'm not sure you have that kind of sense of humor. :cool:
bleacheddecay
06-20-09, 12:21 AM
When I pray it's an old habit in a crisis so I voted occasionally. It irritates me when I catch myself doing that, just as it irritates me to say things like "Thank god," because I don't believe. However, all those childhood years when they had me preaching and singing had an effect and created such habits.
John McClane
06-20-09, 12:31 AM
Is that your way of saying that you do it but have no logical explanation? I've only said "Thank Darwin" at this site to raise a laugh, but I'm not sure you have that kind of sense of humor. :cool:
I'm just saying why does someone have to be a believer to use the phrase thank God? Do you honestly think believers really mean thank God every time they say it? I'm sure some do it purely out of habit.
Regardless, yea, there's no logical explanation. :D
Where did I say that somebody has to be a believer to do such things? I like your answer though.
John McClane
06-20-09, 01:11 AM
Where did I say that somebody has to be a believer to do such things? I like your answer though.I never said you said that. I was just saying that's what I'm saying. If you know what I'm saying about what I said. ;)
Ðèstîñy
06-20-09, 01:40 AM
So Holds, you never mumble a "Thank you" now and again?
I just got home about 30 minutes ago. I was happy about something, and said, "Thank God!". Oddly enough, I then wondered that very same thing. I hadn't even been on here, yet. It took me roughly 5-10 seconds to realize that I did it out of habit. The bulk of us are raised that way.
So, I'm just wondering... when things go well for you (even "small" things such as avoiding a car accident or a red light)... do you ever say "Thank you" under your breath or in your mind? If you do, who are you thanking? God? The Flying Spaghetti Monster? Local government employees? Yourself? It doesn't matter to me. I'm just interested in who else does this, and who thinks it's weird and alien to their own life.
I honestly never think of saying "thank you." I'm not religious. Don't believe in miracles. If I swerve to avoid a wreck, I think, wow, I've got some damn good reflexes. Good thing I was watching that nut. Sure glad I got that brake job last week. If I made a good grade while in school or do good on a work project, I think, "Hey, I really sparkled and shined! Good thing I studied for that test. Man, I'm good at my job, the best there is."
In other words, I'm responsible for my successes.
rice1245
06-20-09, 04:57 AM
I just saw Year One and i saw it with Igor and we were laughing because...it's a comedy and Oliver Platt was ****ing hilarious. But at the end of the movie the guy in front of us said "So i heard you girls laughing a lot and i just want you to know that that is not the bible." Because Year One has lots of biblical references like Abraham and Isaac and then sort of makes fun of it and apparently this man was offended and was therefore offended at our laughing at the funny bible stories. People really need to loosen up a bit.
This doesn't really have much to do with this thread other than it's religious...ish i just wanted to share my story and didn't think it would merit its own thread
ps i didn't pay for Year One, i got hired at a theater and now i get free movies so i'll be seeing way more crappy movies now...because it's free!
I'm totally conflicted here. I'm not sure what I believe but I often hope there's some kind of supreme being out there, but I don't happen to think prayers get answered. It's more like, "give me strength to get through this," sort of thing for me. Then, if I get through it, I sorta then believe that it is some inner consciousness that I'm praying to that is giving me the strength. I also think we're all somehow connected and there's karma. I believe that if we put positive things out into the universe, we get positive things back. But that may simply be nothing more than human nature.
I also say, "thank god," but I also say things like, "why in the heck is this happening to me?" If there was some supreme being pulling the strings, it would make everything make sense, wouldn't it? But I don't think life is like that.
My biggest issue with this whole idea is that people rationalize their bad behavior by somehow saying it is God's will or he wrote it in some book they happen to believe in. They use God for their own selfish purposes. But that's another discussion, eh?
I answered occasionally. :)
Holden Pike
06-20-09, 10:58 AM
I just saw Year One and i saw it with Igor and we were laughing because...it's a comedy and Oliver Platt was ****ing hilarious. But at the end of the movie the guy in front of us said "So i heard you girls laughing a lot and i just want you to know that that is not the bible."
Oh, MAN! I wish I had been there for that. I would have said, 'So I heard what you said to these girls and I just want you to know that this is not a church.' Either that or a less measured very loud and obnoxious 'NO DUH!'
bleacheddecay
06-20-09, 01:17 PM
I honestly never think of saying "thank you." I'm not religious. Don't believe in miracles. If I swerve to avoid a wreck, I think, wow, I've got some damn good reflexes. Good thing I was watching that nut. Sure glad I got that brake job last week. If I made a good grade while in school or do good on a work project, I think, "Hey, I really sparkled and shined! Good thing I studied for that test. Man, I'm good at my job, the best there is."
In other words, I'm responsible for my successes.
A little off the subject but in my experience men tend to take the credit for good things happening in their lives while women tend to take the blame for bad things happening in their lives. I say, once again, that is is societal conditioning. Has anyone else see that pattern?
Oh, MAN! I wish I had been there for that. I would have said, 'So I heard what you said to these girls and I just want you to know that this is not a church.' Either that or a less measured very loud and obnoxious 'NO DUH!'
And you'd probably have been out of line. I mean, really: like there aren't people out there stupid enough to think that Year One satirizes actual Biblical events? I'm sure you're plenty aware of how staggering some people's ignorance is. It's entirely conceivable that some random teenagers could think that the events (though obviously not the dialogue) are based on something or other in the Bible in a more than purely superficial way. We've both met dumber, I'm sure.
Based on that quote alone, the guy wasn't being remotely preachy. Unless he went on and said a bunch of other things that we're not currently privy to, of course.
Re: bleached's question. My experience is that people tend to take credit for the good things that happen to them and mark the bad things as being out of their control. It's an inherent human tendency and not exclusive or largely confined to a single gender.
Ðèstîñy
06-20-09, 03:06 PM
Why do I sometimes say "Pardon me" and other times "Excuse me"? I don't know, I make no conscious decision to use one over the other and I don't have a preference. Maybe there are subconscious triggers in the enviroment that make me use one rather than the other but, as they'd be subconscious, I have no idea what they are.
Maybe the "Pardon me" is for the ladies, but the "Excuse me" is for the men. ;) Pay closer attention the next few times you say it, and see.
It's like that other chat on the board about why we call some movies movies, but we call other movies films. I posted that in my mind, high quality movies are films, but cheesy movies are movies.
As far as prayer goes, it won't change anything. I've heard people say, "I prayed that we'd win this game, and we did." I've heard others pray for the life of their child, and yet he or she died. Whatever is going to happen, is going to happen.
The Prestige
06-20-09, 03:19 PM
I haven't prayed in years. I wish I had the heart to, though.
Holden Pike
06-20-09, 03:51 PM
And you'd probably have been out of line. I mean, really: like there aren't people out there stupid enough to think that Year One satirizes actual Biblical events? I'm sure you're plenty aware of how staggering some people's ignorance is. It's entirely conceivable that some random teenagers could think that the events (though obviously not the dialogue) are based on something or other in the Bible in a more than purely superficial way. We've both met dumber, I'm sure.
Based on that quote alone, the guy wasn't being remotely preachy. Unless he went on and said a bunch of other things that we're not currently privy to, of course.
I'm not saying he was being preachy, I'm saying he was being an *******. By the same token, if he had confronted two boys oohing and aahing behind him during The Bourne Identity or The Quantum of Solace and inserted a, "So I heard you fellas getting excited a lot and I just want you to know that that is not representative the real world of international espionage." To that I'd say, "Uh, just want you to know this isn't a classified training film for Langley" or, again, a big ol' noisy "NO DUH!"
But I'll wager he doesn't feel the need to point out the silliness or fantasy in other movies, just anything that has anything to do with religion. And let's be honest, probably only his religion. He could give a crap if it was a broad, outrageous satire about Judaism or Moonies or whatever. But just to be clear to you snickering girls, that fart joke about Pontius Pilate - that's not strict interpretation of Scripture. Thanks. We were confused.
Geesh. Or rather, Geeshus.
The Bourne Identity isn't based on real events, and bears no actual resemblance to them, and I'm sure neither of us has ever met someone who thought otherwise.
Titanic, on the other hand, is based on real events, and I'm sure we've both met many people who believe its depiction to be accurate (even though it isn't).
Year One depicts a number of Sunday-school stories we've all heard in some form or another, and which some people believe is fact, and thus falls more into the latter camp than the former. Or, at least, it could, which is all that's necessary for me to make the point I'm making. As I mentioned before, you and I are usually in lock-step when it comes to the ability of ignorance to overwhelm any such common sense, so I'm not really buying the idea that you suddenly have faith in random teenagers (or even grown men and women) to suddenly make such distinctions. Remove religion from the mix, and I suspect you'd be far less optimistic about their ability to discern these things.
By that same token, perhaps he wouldn't have had a problem with other religions -- and maybe that's okay. Nobody goes out of their way to defend things they don't believe in, and we can't generally expect them to. This explains why you think he's an *******, and I think he might not be. Maybe he wouldn't have a problem with the Wayans Bros. doing Mormon Movie, just as you wouldn't have a problem with a film making fun of something you didn't really care for. It's not really relevant.
In other words, nobody minds someone setting the record straight when they agree with it. If you disagree, then suddenly he's an overbearing ******* stating the obvious. If you're sympathetic to religion, then his reminder serves some kind of purpose. I don't think this has anything to do with social niceties or what random moviegoers do or don't understand. The fact that the reminder was about religion is, let's face it, probably the only reason we're talking about this.
John McClane
06-20-09, 04:31 PM
I gotta side with Holden on this one, Chris. Holden has a clear point that the reminder isn't necessary. And let's face it, if you know ignorance to overwhelm common sense what's to say a reminder is going to set someone straight? Because I'm sure you've met people who thought the Titanic (or some other true story) was an accurate portrayal and you could not convince them otherwise.
If someone is dumb enough to honestly take a film representation as fact, about anything, then reminder or no reminder there's little hope for them.
Sexy Celebrity
06-20-09, 05:23 PM
Occasionally... like when I'm having boyfriend trouble or something. :goof:
A little off the subject but in my experience men tend to take the credit for good things happening in their lives while women tend to take the blame for bad things happening in their lives. I say, once again, that is is societal conditioning. Has anyone else see that pattern?
Jeeze, I'd liked to have had you around when my ex-wifes were giving me hell for ruining their lives!! :) Actually, I pretty much take credit for most of dings in my life, too. For instance, it would be easy to say my first ex-wife was a bitch on wheels, and there's plenty of evidence in support of that claim. But the fact remains I knew I was making a mistake when I married her and I got nobody to blame but myself for letting her get away with some of the stuff she pulled. Like the ol Trini Lopez tune says, I knew she was a snake when I took her in.
On the other hand, no one was to blame for the absolutely worst thing that ever happened in my life--the death of my son. He died saving his son from drowning.
I gotta side with Holden on this one, Chris. Holden has a clear point that the reminder isn't necessary. And let's face it, if you know ignorance to overwhelm common sense what's to say a reminder is going to set someone straight? Because I'm sure you've met people who thought the Titanic (or some other true story) was an accurate portrayal and you could not convince them otherwise.
If someone is dumb enough to honestly take a film representation as fact, about anything, then reminder or no reminder there's little hope for them.
If your argument is simply that anyone who needs to be reminded is too dumb to be reminded, we'll have to agree to disagree, but it's altogether different from Holden's argument, anyway. The issue is whether or not the guy is an "*******," and the word doesn't really fit if you're merely making the case that he's wasting his time. And you're also not suggesting that it's perfectly obvious to everyone, as Holden was; just that people who don't know it aren't worth the correction.
And let's not forget that this guy was talking to a couple of teenagers. We all know rice is a smart girl, but he has no way of knowing that, and it's not something I'd assume about a random teenager. You don't have to be dumb to be ignorant, particularly when you're younger.
I think this is clearly a religious thing, not a social more thing. I mean, look at Holden's response; he's extrapolated several things about this guy's personality based on almost no information at all. Is it that the reminder wasn't necessary, or that he thinks anyone who would issue such a reminder is a specific kind of person, and one he doesn't particularly like? I'm still routinely surprised by how often that sort of conjecture figures into people's opinions, even intelligent people.
I've heard people say, "I prayed that we'd win this game, and we did."
Praying for the outcome of a sporting event or a roll of dice or to "get lucky" with the ladies is about the stupidest thing there is. They're damn lucky there's not a god to hear crap like that, or the payback would be hell! :)
meatwadsprite
06-20-09, 05:32 PM
Sometimes I will thank whoever if I avoid a boring/stupid situation.
I'm not saying he was being preachy, I'm saying he was being an *******. By the same token, if he had confronted two boys oohing and aahing behind him during The Bourne Identity or The Quantum of Solace and inserted a, "So I heard you fellas getting excited a lot and I just want you to know that that is not representative the real world of international espionage." To that I'd say, "Uh, just want you to know this isn't a classified training film for Langley" or, again, a big ol' noisy "NO DUH!"
But I'll wager he doesn't feel the need to point out the silliness or fantasy in other movies, just anything that has anything to do with religion. And let's be honest, probably only his religion. He could give a crap if it was a broad, outrageous satire about Judaism or Moonies or whatever. But just to be clear to you snickering girls, that fart joke about Pontius Pilate - that's not strict interpretation of Scripture. Thanks. We were confused.
Geesh. Or rather, Geeshus.
Geeze, I love it when Pike dresses me down when I talk about making comments in a movie theater, but it's a whole different story when he's the one talking it up! :) Guess I don't understand the subtle difference between the "*******" feeling called upon to make comments to the young ladies and Pike feeling called upon to make set the "*******" straight.
But you go, guy. I'm all for freedom of speech. For everyone.
Holden Pike
06-20-09, 05:50 PM
Yeah, maybe The Bourne Identity wasn't the best example. I should have said, 'I heard your girls laughing a lot and I want you to know that Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery has nothing to do with actual international espionage.' Uh, no *****, Sherlock. Because that's a more proper correlation: a purposefully stupid and broad piece of comedy entertainment. I suppose only a Christian in high missionary mood would feel the need to tell two random girls (who aren't random here, of course, as both Igor is Fugly and Rice have been MoFos for a while now and amassed quite a lot of posts) and tell them in a way that first of all questions their sense of humor (did he go up to other youngsters or people in the audience who weren't laughing a lot or not laughing at all, or did he just assume if you weren't laughing much you knew it wasn't Biblical because rightly you didn't find it funny?) and then wants to make clear that in the Old Testament it wasn't two doofy cavemen who speak in modern colloquial American slang and make jokes about masturbation that ate of the Tree of Knowledge, it was Adam and Eve? What was his endgame here? Just in case these girls were wavering on a Judeo-Christian path, don't have them go away thinking the Jack Black slapstick comedy is really Biblical? Yeah, I was thinking about going to Church for the first time this weekend, but then I saw that Year One movie, laughed my tuchas off, and realized, nah, it probably wasn't for me. But wait, there was that man in front of us who without invitation or need also encouraged us not to base our rejection of or embrace of the Bible based on that movie. Whew, dodged a bullet there.
Other helpful hints:
Ace Ventura: Pet Detective (1994) is not a good way to do research about the veterinary or detective professions, and is also not an accurate portrayal of the career or biography of NFL Hall of Fame quarterback Dan Marino. Turns out it's just a silly gross-out comedy.
Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story (2007) features actors portraying The Beatles, Elvis Presley, Buddy Holly and The Temptations. But please, don't be fooled! Not only are those scenes inaccurate, but here's a scandal that'll blow your freakin' mind: Dewey Cox is an entirely fictional character! Turns out it's just a silly gross-out comedy.
Happy Gilmore (1999) has characters playing on what would appear to be PGA-sanctioned professional events, but PLEASE don't base whether or not you participate, watch or respect the sport of golf on this Adam Sandler comedy! I know it's tempting to do so, especially as it's shot in a very documentary-like style, but it turns out its just a silly gross-out comedy.
Oh, I could go on, but I don't want to sound preachy. Or like an *******.*
*too late
Sexy Celebrity
06-20-09, 05:57 PM
*is praying for this thread*
I suppose only a Christian in high missionary mood would feel the need to tell two random girls (who aren't random here, of course, as both Igor is Fugly and Rice have been MoFos for a while now and amassed quite a lot of posts)
They're random to him, which is all that matters in this context.
and tell them in a way that first of all questions their sense of humor (did he go up to other youngsters or people in the audience who weren't laughing a lot or not laughing at all, or did he just assume if you weren't laughing much you knew it wasn't Biblical because rightly you didn't find it funny?)
They said he was "in front" of them, so I'm assuming they were the nearest to him. But we don't know, so this is wrong at worst, and premature at best.
and then wants to make clear that in the Old Testament it wasn't two doofy cavemen who speak in modern colloquial American slang and make jokes about masturbation that ate of the Tree of Knowledge, it was Adam and Eve? What was his endgame here? Just in case these girls were wavering on a Judeo-Christian path, don't have them go away thinking the Jack Black slapstick comedy is really Biblical? Yeah, I was thinking about going to Church for the first time this weekend, but then I saw that Year One movie, laughed my tuchas off, and realized, nah, it probably wasn't for me. But wait, there was that man in front of us who without invitation or need also encouraged us not to base our rejection of or embrace of the Bible based on that movie. Whew, dodged a bullet there.
At this point you must be deliberately trying to misunderstand. No one has even remotely suggested that this constitutes an attempt to save anyone's soul, or that even teenagers will think that modern slang exists in the Bible. That part is obvious, and I actually said as much in an earlier post. However, that doesn't mean some of the underlying events are quite as obviously ridiculous, given that some of them are, in fact, from the Bible, juxtaposed with some that aren't. You don't have to buy into the modern dialogue to think certain things are "based" in something true.
I'm not sure I see your point when you joke about it not convincing anyone not to go the Church. Who's suggested otherwise? Regardless, no one form of satire or mocking or what-have-you is ever the one reason these things happen. But it's crazy talk to suggest that hearing something made fun of time and time again isn't going to have a cumulate effect on the way we view it, even if that effect is only to make us take it less seriously. In the case of religion, that matters.
Now, it's certainly your right to be uber-sarcastic and only argue with ridiculous things that nobody's actually saying. Or you can engage the actual arguments being put forward. But please, leave the poor straw men alone. They've had enough.
Holden Pike
06-20-09, 07:12 PM
They're random to him, which is all that matters in this context.
Yes, but I was giving more context to my defense of them, both theoretical and if I had actually been in that theatre.
They said he was "in front" of them, so I'm assuming they were the nearest to him. But we don't know, so this is wrong at worst, and premature at best.
He was the one who started the comment with, 'You girls were laughing a lot...', which I suppose could have been an awkward non sequitur that might as well have been 'I noticed you girls were both wearing sneakers' or 'I noticed you girls are both female' or 'I noticed you both inhale oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide', but yes, I'm making an assumption that since that was the first part of the sentence it had relevance, at least in his mind, to the second part of the sentence.
As for my so called straw men, I thought they were simple illustrations of my central point and response: if a stranger got up after any of the other wacky comedies I named or a hundred that I didn't to clarify that it was only a silly comedy, he'd be out of line, superfluous and an *******. But because he's on some level defending the Bible after Year One, sure, it's defensible and understandable. F*ck him.
And since it was such an odd and unnecessary thing to make a point of making clear something that was already clear, I was trying to extrapolate his motives from the few words he felt necessary to impart to strangers at the movie theatre.
As for straw men, please, keep defending the weirdo at the movie theatre.
Maybe we can break off this last debate and put it in its own thread titled Rice and Igor Should Have Gone to White Castle Instead.
Oh, come on now.... I've just seen the movie and if this guy was really saying "...that's not in the bible" to some giggling girls, then maybe he isn't an ******* -- just a bit of an idiot.
That film's comedy is so incredibly broad that I can't even call it any kind of satire on the Bible at all, but rather an incredibly silly comedy. The guy does need to loosen up a bit and he insulted the girls by assuming that they didn't "get it." Isn't that all Holden is really saying?
And really, didn't he know what he was getting into when he went to see it?
BTW, shoot me, I thought the movie was pretty funny most of the time (I'm not into the fart or body part jokes...). Michael Cera is a perfect compliment to Jack Black. But that's for another thread, I guess....:)
John McClane
06-20-09, 08:46 PM
Alright, Chris, work with us on this for a second: if any of the other examples that Holden has listed happened instead would you still be defending the guy?
Holden's obviously made it clear that regardless of the comment or movie or whatever that it was stupid and unnecessary. Why should a comment on religious background make it more excusable than the others? It shouldn't! They're all crazy.
Tell me, if someone was to say the same thing after...say...The Passion of the Christ; would that be unreasonable? Certainly. Would it be true, sure. Just because it's true, however, does not make it reasonable.
ManOf1000Faces
06-20-09, 09:02 PM
no because your not forced and i am a Agnostic so pretty much noooo
Yes, but I was giving more context to my defense of them, both theoretical and if I had actually been in that theatre.
But the disagreement is about what is or is not reasonable for that man at that time to say. How could the fact that we all know they're intelligent people have any relevance to that? Was it just some random aside?
He was the one who started the comment with, 'You girls were laughing a lot...', which I suppose could have been an awkward non sequitur that might as well have been 'I noticed you girls were both wearing sneakers' or 'I noticed you girls are both female' or 'I noticed you both inhale oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide', but yes, I'm making an assumption that since that was the first part of the sentence it had relevance, at least in his mind, to the second part of the sentence.
Wha? He referenced the fact that they were laughing, he didn't say they shouldn't be. As you point out, it's a comedy, and it'd be impossible for anyone who'd seen the trailers not to know this. So unless he's mind-blowingly confused (and not just a mere *******), it wouldn't make sense for his comments to mean what you're suggesting.
It does make sense, however, if it's meant to contrast with the second part of the sentence. As in, "hey, I know this is supposed to be funny, but that's all it is, and some of the stuff underneath is serious." This is how I took it the first time I read it. I don't know if this is how he meant it, but the idea that he was condemning them for merely laughing doesn't make a lot of sense.
As for my so called straw men, I thought they were simple illustrations of my central point and response: if a stranger got up after any of the other wacky comedies I named or a hundred that I didn't to clarify that it was only a silly comedy, he'd be out of line, superfluous and an *******. But because he's on some level defending the Bible after Year One, sure, it's defensible and understandable. F*ck him.
Yeah, see, this is what I'm taking issue with. We wouldn't be having this conversation if it was "gee, that's kinda condescending," or something more measured. What I have a problem with is merely declaring that he's an "*******" and "F*ck him." Good grief, you don't see how weird and extreme it is to jump to all these spiteful conclusions based on almost nothing?
As for the "illustrations" -- I'd hardly call them that. They were rhetorical exaggerations of movies that contain absolutely no reality in them whatsoever. And the "straw men" part refers to the sarcastic references about how his comment will convince them to go to church. It's mocking an argument no one's made, which is what makes it a straw man. A point that wouldn't exist without the exaggeration around it isn't a point at all.
As for straw men, please, keep defending the weirdo at the movie theatre.
You see it as defending some weirdo, I see it as suggesting that people not leap to stark conclusions based on tiny amounts of information. Poh-tay-toe, poh-tah-toe. But I'm being relatively measured here; he could be a total jerk, but I don't really know. I'm maintaining that you don't, either, and that if he were talking about something other than religion, you'd probably have less of a problem with it.
Alright, Chris, work with us on this for a second: if any of the other examples that Holden has listed happened instead would you still be defending the guy?
I don't remember the entire list, but most of them, no. Most of them would be obvious. Though I'd point out that any of those would hardly make him an *******, anyway.
Holden's obviously made it clear that regardless of the comment or movie or whatever that it was stupid and unnecessary. Why should a comment on religious background make it more excusable than the others? It shouldn't! They're all crazy.
I didn't say the fact that it's about religion makes it more excusable, though the fact that it deals with otherwise serious things, and actual Biblical events, creates more of a possibility that it could be taken as being based in truth, even if satire's laid on top of it. What I'm saying applies to any film based in real or serious events to some degree.
It just strikes me as a little odd that you all seem to have such faith in teenage moviegoers all of a sudden. Come now; I refuse to believe that none of you have ever heard any of them say anything dumber than what I'm suggesting.
Tell me, if someone was to say the same thing after...say...The Passion of the Christ; would that be unreasonable? Certainly. Would it be true, sure. Just because it's true, however, does not make it reasonable.
I don't think it'd be unreasonable, I think it'd be interesting, because part of The Passion of the Christ is actually based on writings other than the Bible. But putting that example aside, sure, I agree that something can be true AND unreasonable. Absolutely.
ManOf1000Faces
06-20-09, 09:10 PM
yoda has a point but god is not real because he dosent show us signs
no offense yoda
Used Future
06-20-09, 09:33 PM
I prayed once when I was twelve after moving to a new school. There was a girl from my old school who I had a huge crush on, and I asked to see her again. A couple of weeks later I saw her on the other side of the street whilst on a family day trip to the coast forty miles away. At the time I thought my prayer had been answered, but now I'm an old cynic who believes in coincidence rather than 'God' or 'a god'.
So no, not any more.
John McClane
06-20-09, 09:56 PM
I think it'd be interesting, because part of The Passion of the Christ is actually based on writings other than the Bible. But putting that example aside, sure, I agree that something can be true AND unreasonable. Absolutely.And did it *actually* happen that way? In any of the writings? Word for word? More than likely, no.
I have a feeling Holden and I do not have some renewed faith in teenage moviegoers. Then again, I'd also be willing to bet we also have no faith in guys who state the obvious.
rice1245
06-20-09, 10:52 PM
I sort of got the vibe from the man that he was offended by our laughing at the biblical characters. I noticed he had a super loud obnoxious laugh at the beginning of the movie and then all of a sudden it stopped and he didn't laugh for the rest of it and i didn't think about it much until he said that to us. I really don't think he was trying to 'clarify' anything for us i thought he was just mad about the movie and mad that we liked it but seriously, you guys must see Oliver Platt in that, funniest thing ever. And i was happy to see David Cross getting some limelight
And as a teenager among many other teenagers, i don't think i know one who would be stupid dumb or ignorant enough to think that Year One was real. But then again, i live in Minnesota, we have really nice test scores :)
Powdered Water
06-20-09, 11:21 PM
I often pray for a million dollars...
still waiting.
Oh, and this thread is hilarious.
rice1245
06-20-09, 11:30 PM
http://wpsmedia.latimes.com/image/backlot/2008/4/29/Year_One_oliver_platt_crown/The_Year_One-1136-large.jpg
OIL ME OR DIE
r3port3r66
06-21-09, 12:35 AM
I think the majority of people reading this discussion might side , as I do, with Holden. Not only is it odd for someone to turn around in a public venue and criticize complete strangers for laughing at a funny movie, it is also very odd that he would make an inferential leap and suggest that random movie goers need a disclaimer.
ManOf1000Faces
06-21-09, 11:41 AM
why people care if you pray to god
r3port3r66
06-21-09, 11:43 AM
They don't
Holden Pike
06-21-09, 11:52 AM
why people care if you pray to god
Question good. Me want know too: where moon go at daytme?
http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:-_GZ4XaEechsXM:http://www.jimwegryn.com/Names/Images/Tonto.jpg http://tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ufy32tdssUppAM:http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w15/thepapertrail/Blog%2520Pix/CM040.jpg http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:wi0GzuGJlOKwiM:http://www.vinylzart.com/eshop/images/pt_1883.jpeg http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:9wWdgtQmVVLq8M:http://michaelmay.us/temp/0901_tarzan.jpg http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:d6-l--XaF3Mh_M:http://www.impawards.com/1945/posters/tarzan_and_the_amazons.jpg http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Ususp_kPzInK6M:http://supravietuitor.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/weismuller-tarzan1.jpg http://snltranscripts.jt.org/89/pics/89lsi.jpg
Powdered Water
06-21-09, 12:08 PM
I want a pet monkey.
Devils Angel
06-21-09, 12:21 PM
When my grandad died I was quite young and had the expectation that people stay around forever and dont die, but his death hit me and I realised people do die, and will leave me, so i prayed 3times a day everyday asking god to let me see my grandad again. After 4years of praying none stop every day 3 times a day and not getting to see my grandad again I gave up on it. Now i pray occassionally, it gives me a little comfort in hard times even though I never get what I pray for :s
rice1245
06-21-09, 10:44 PM
why people care if you pray to god
What are you messengerthug?
Classicqueen13
07-04-09, 02:32 PM
Honestly, I think I pray at least once a day.
Miss Vicky
07-05-09, 12:40 AM
I have no faith in God, nor do I follow any religion so I have neither the need nor the desire to pray.
not really, and not directly, but i m sure that on a spiritual level there is some praying going on inside of me.
Ish1987
07-06-09, 09:15 AM
I don't believe in anything that cannot be proven by science. No.
ballstouweboll24
07-06-09, 10:01 AM
I'm totally against all forms of religion but I have to admit that after Pearl Harbour, Pirates of the Caribbean 1,2 and 3 and Transformers 1 and 2 I do sometimes pray that Michael Bay and Jerry Bruckheimer should be banned from making movies
But thats just me
No, I'm against religion.
please don't give negative rep for my opinion :D
I want a pet monkey.
Who doesn't these days?
Mischievous
07-30-09, 01:01 PM
I don't pray...unless you count really really hoping for things as praying. Then yeah I pray.
Sexy Celebrity
07-31-09, 09:49 PM
I was watching the news today and there was a piece about this dad that got in trouble because he wouldn't take his sick daughter - who only had diabetes - to the doctor or whatever to get more medicine (insulin) -- instead, the dad just PRAYED that she would get better...
... he prayed and he prayed and he prayed...
... and she dropped dead.
She never got her insulin.
Oh, look, here's an article:
Father Prayed For His Dying Daughter Instead of Getting Her Help (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1203466/Father-prayed-dying-daughter-calling-medical-help-disobeying-God.html)
Honestly, I think I pray at least once a day.
LMAO.. well do you or don't you ?
I would interpret that as I try to pray at least once a day. Nothing weird there.
Prayer is more about acknowledgement of a higher power, an attempt to follow that power, asking for forgiveness when one makes mistakes and keeping open lines of communication. It's not really unusual if people's requests for themselves or even their loved ones don't work out. It's more about building a relationship than begging or seeking a reprieve from an approaching death sentence. If you see it as part of a way as getting out of a permanent death, that's OK, as long as it's done in the right spirit. Then again, I could just be completely full of it, right?
Powdered Water
07-31-09, 11:04 PM
Right. I still love you though. You big lug...
John McClane
07-31-09, 11:27 PM
Prayer is more about acknowledgement of a higher power, an attempt to follow that power, asking for forgiveness when one makes mistakes and keeping open lines of communication. It's not really unusual if people's requests for themselves or even their loved ones don't work out. It's more about building a relationship than begging or seeking a reprieve from an approaching death sentence. If you see it as part of a way as getting out of a permanent death, that's OK, as long as it's done in the right spirit. Then again, I could just be completely full of it, right?You could say prayer is that, sure. Then again, what says that interpretation is right? ;)
In my opinion, wouldn't God know what you're thinking? Wouldn't He know you're thankful? Wouldn't He know you want forgiveness? I mean, as you're thinking it.
Like before you sit down to eat: "Damn, I sure am thankful for this good food. God...you're awesome." :D
I guess that's why I've always found prayer rather redundant, but that's just me. I do recognize the emotional, mental, and physical benefits from meditation. Some would say, as I would, prayer and meditation are two different things, though.
The difference between God knowing something and the person praying knowing (or thinking that he/she knows something; i.e. a relationship) is the difference between our two quickie thoughts on the subject. One-way vs. Two-way. Of course, I realize that the concept of something akin to a personal relationship with Something so huge automatically sinks the concept of God for many. :cool:
John McClane
07-31-09, 11:37 PM
The difference between God knowing something and the person praying knowing (or thinking that he/she knows something; i.e. a relationship) is the difference between our two quickie thoughts on the subject. One-way vs. Two-way. Of course, I realize that the concept of something akin to a personal relationship with Something so huge automatically sinks the concept of God for many. :cool:Once again, I think the same thing is possible without prayer. Of course, you can't call it two way unless someone talks back, in my opinion. And generally speaking...no one talks back. ;)
Mischievous
08-03-09, 05:12 PM
I was watching the news today and there was a piece about this dad that got in trouble because he wouldn't take his sick daughter - who only had diabetes - to the doctor or whatever to get more medicine (insulin) -- instead, the dad just PRAYED that she would get better...
... he prayed and he prayed and he prayed...
... and she dropped dead.
She never got her insulin.
Oh, look, here's an article:
Father Prayed For His Dying Daughter Instead of Getting Her Help (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1203466/Father-prayed-dying-daughter-calling-medical-help-disobeying-God.html)
I saw that on the news the other day...it was really sad. A bit shocked that someone in 2009 (as opposed to 1829) would still pray for God to regulate their daughter's sugar levels, but then again I guess not everyone reads, leaves their homes, talks to their neighbors, or watches television.
John McClane
08-03-09, 05:44 PM
Well, to get one thing straightened out...this is a recurring case from 2003, so it's nothing recent and definitely *not* the norm. I'm sure there were many things/people that ultimately contributed to her death, but it's definitely a fringe fringe (yes, I meant to type that twice to illustrate that even most fringe groups don't take it that far) thing.
Mischievous
08-03-09, 05:59 PM
^okay 2003. I wonder why I did not know about this sooner, maybe it is just the first time I payed attention. (in 2003 I was a self-centered teenager). 2003 was not that long ago. I mean in terms of medical treatment in relation to miraculous God-healing.
It was obviously an anomalous case, but that doesn't make it any less shocking. The "wtf" factor is still a bit fresh for me.
Caitlyn
08-03-09, 06:28 PM
Well, to get one thing straightened out...this is a recurring case from 2003, so it's nothing recent and definitely *not* the norm. I'm sure there were many things/people that ultimately contributed to her death, but it's definitely a fringe fringe (yes, I meant to type that twice to illustrate that even most fringe groups don't take it that far) thing.
Johnny, this child died on Easter in 2008 and the parents were both found guilty of reckless homicide in the last few days... and will be sentenced later this year.
John McClane
08-03-09, 06:43 PM
Johnny, this child died on Easter in 2008 and the parents were both found guilty of reckless homicide in the last few days... and will be sentenced later this year.Did you not see the description under the picture of the girl?
His daughter Madeline, 11, died from undiagnosed diabetes in March 2003.
TheUsualSuspect
08-03-09, 08:06 PM
I use to a lot as a kid, not so much anymore. I voted occasionally.
TheUsualSuspect
08-03-09, 08:12 PM
yoda has a point but god is not real because he dosent show us signs
no offense yoda
There are millions of people who would disagree with that comment. One cannot say that God is or is not real. Who's to say he doesn't show us signs? Maybe not to people like you.
I understand if you don't believe in a God, but to say that one does not exist as some sort of fact is ignorant, imo.
No offense, right?
Do I believe in God? Yes, of course.
Do I believe that God answers prayers? No, why the hell would he.
People try to use the argument that prayers are not answered as proof that a God does not exist. I'm sitting here thinking he's got better stuff to do than to worry about some speck of dust in the universe.
god is not real because he dosent show us signs
That's based on the faulty assumption that you can recognize a sign from god. Doesn't have to be a burning bush. Might be nothing more than a beautiful sunset, a starry night, or a child's smile.
When my grandad died I was quite young and had the expectation that people stay around forever and dont die, but his death hit me and I realised people do die, and will leave me, so i prayed 3times a day everyday asking god to let me see my grandad again. After 4years of praying none stop every day 3 times a day and not getting to see my grandad again I gave up on it. Now i pray occassionally, it gives me a little comfort in hard times even though I never get what I pray for :s
Children pray for impossible things because they don't know any better. Lucky for you there was no way to bring back grandpa 4 years after he was buried--that would have been more traumatic than the old man's death. On the other hand, you might see a little of your grandpa in the reflection of your face each time you look in a mirror.
In my opinion, wouldn't God know what you're thinking? Wouldn't He know you're thankful? Wouldn't He know you want forgiveness? I mean, as you're thinking it.
That's the same sort of reasoning that you hear from guys after their significant others dump them. "She shoulda known I loved her, even if I never did say it."
I don't know if God reads thoughts or not. Some argue that if not for God, you wouldn't have any thoughts. On the other hand, maybe God wants to hear you formalize a prayer of thanks instead of you just thinking about it. Maybe He wants you to set aside some time for prayer, instead of thinking about it on the run.
Caitlyn
08-03-09, 08:44 PM
Did you not see the description under the picture of the girl?
His daughter Madeline, 11, died from undiagnosed diabetes in March 2003.
No, I didn't read that and it must be a misprint because Madeline Kara Neumann died on March 22, 2008. Her parents are Dale and Leilani Neumann and both have been charged with reckless homicide. This case was in Wisconsin but I think there may have also been one a few years earlier similar to it in California. Regardless, I'm glad the parents were charged...
Wis. jury: Father guilty in prayer death case (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32252045/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts)
John McClane
08-03-09, 10:04 PM
That's the same sort of reasoning that you hear from guys after their significant others dump them. "She shoulda known I loved her, even if I never did say it."
I don't know if God reads thoughts or not. Some argue that if not for God, you wouldn't have any thoughts. On the other hand, maybe God wants to hear you formalize a prayer of thanks instead of you just thinking about it. Maybe He wants you to set aside some time for prayer, instead of thinking about it on the run.So if you're sitting and you think, "I'm thankfully" that's not the same as kneeling, putting your hands together, bowing your head, or whatever the said individual might do? What's going on in a person's mind is much more important than what the body is doing, or not doing.
And it's not the same thing. Can I read the thoughts of my ex? No. Can I have an actual conversation with my ex and ask her questions and tell her things? Yes.
No, I didn't read that and it must be a misprint because Madeline Kara Neumann died on March 22, 2008. Her parents are Dale and Leilani Neumann and both have been charged with reckless homicide. This case was in Wisconsin but I think there may have also been one a few years earlier similar to it in California. Regardless, I'm glad the parents were charged...
Wis. jury: Father guilty in prayer death case (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32252045/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts)Hmm, odd. Must be a misprint, indeed. Sorry about that. :)
Well, let me fill you in on a little secret here. John McClane is not perfect, and neither are we, so my only question to you is where the heck are Luke and the other John? :cool:
John McClane
08-03-09, 10:55 PM
Well, let me fill you in on a little secret here. John McClane is not perfect, and neither are we, so my only question to you is where the heck are Luke and the other John? :cool:Woah? I'm not perfect?! Damn, and all this time I thought I was!! ;)
Caitlyn
08-03-09, 11:06 PM
Hmm, odd. Must be a misprint, indeed. Sorry about that. :)
No biggie... and I wasn't trying to be a B about it… :nope: I was just a little interested in what the verdict was going to be in that case... There was a baby, Ava Worthington, whose parents denied her medical treatment and she died last year right before Madeline. Neither of her parents were convicted of manslaughter...
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