mark f
02-05-09, 02:53 AM
Note: It should say "the 2008 U.S. Presidential Election and Partisan Politics
First off, I do make some political comments here and there and probably enough for you to either write me off as an extremist wacko or as somebody "bought and sold in the marketplace". In general, I do look at politics as a "way of life" but it's really something fluid and not set in stone. This is one of the reasons why I'm so disappointed (albeit highly entertained) when I listen to U.S. "talk radio". Since Obama won the election, you have the exact same Conservative commentators saying almost exactly the same thing as they did when Bush was President, but now it's prefaced with "We're conservatism in exile. Hopefully, we'll [Vocal conservatives] survive before we all get audited and/or hauled off to jail or the U.S. ("the Greatest Nation that God ever put on the face of the Earth") gets turned into a Commie Dictatorship by Premier/King Obama." I'm telling you the truth that this is not an exaggeration. Now, I want to tell the people who I haven't already turned off that I'm open to all sides of the equation. I hate the idea that somebody knows all there is to know and that they can never learn anything, especially about "politics", but it fits with movies too. Think about it. Somebody says this is the way it is and it'a always been that way. Well, even if they're correct (about whatever they're babbling about), if you find something they say or the way they say it objectionable, then you are locked into something resembling partisan politics.
Wow! This is already really boring, but what I'm trying to get at, and forgive me if this is beneath the intelligence of most of this board (I actually believe it is, but it's still all over the radio, TV and internet), but I'm interested in the fact that conservatives claim they believe in Liberty. You know, the kind of Liberty mentioned in the Declaration of Independence. The kind of Liberty which was refused by our government to women and racial minorities for years. In fact, it was often denied to poor white trash males if it possibly could be. The only reason I'm mentioning "Conservatives" now is because ever since my truck started eating certain of my musical choices, I've been listening to Conservative Radio. I believe in listening to both sides and hearing them speak, repeatedly, over a stretch of time. You cannot say that you understand what someone believes by reading a few paragraphs or listening to a very embarrassing gaffe, but you can understand them if you listen to them day-in and day-out Thay's why I'm posting this pointless post. Actually, I'm hoping I say just enough and yet not quite so much that I get the attention of anyone with a mind who finds themselves to be a political being, and I would hope that that's everyone, especially since the average I.Q. of MoFo members has to be off the chart compared to other sites. :cool:
You see, my curse is that I can see different sides of the same question, but the reality is that people have to work together, so describing FDR or Ronald Reagan as some form of messiah doesn't work with me. It cannot be all black-and-white, and that's why I would hope that people would be able to take the most complimentary aspects of differing economic principles and blend them together. Once the results may be able to be construed, then we can tweak them to work even better. I have to admit that this concept may have never been applied before, but I'm pretty sure it has. The second Continental Congress found that it had to "rationalize" the idea of Slavery with the beautiful words "All men are created equal". It was a bitter fight, but the side of the slaveholders was upheld, and of course, almost a century later, it led to the Civil War. It took another century to enforce similar laws through "the Land of the Free". The Constitution of the U.S., which seems to be imbued with countless Godly intonations by certain Conservatives, never once mentions God. This doesn't matter to me, but the implication that if you're a Liberal, you're a Godless, anarchistic Communist and if you're a Conservative, you're a God-fearing, patriotic Capitalist is an insult, not only to me, but to everything the Freedoms that some people rail on and on about have to offer to any and all Americans, regardless of their "race, religion, creed, color, or opinions".
Crap! I haven't even gotten to why I started this post, and I'm starting to wonder if any of our non-American, maybe-Commie (not a slur) family will follow along with this train of thought. Theoretically, the semi-collapse of the U.S. economy is responsible for the semi-collapse of the world economy, and things are likely to get worse before they get better. Now, U.S. conservatives will tell you that Jimmy Carter was the instigator of this collapse over 30 years ago. Apparently, Carter, when he wasn't trying to screw over America in other ways, instigated a law where banks were encouraged to give loans to lower-income families to help them follow their "concept of the American Dream". Now, I don't especially recall the housing market or the banks undergoing a meltdown during the Carter presidency, even if things were pretty screwed up. Luckily for me, my father was my employer during the time, and even if I was so poor, I rarely paid taxes (remember, I'm an over-educated, underachieving bum), I don't recall our family "suffering" at all under the Peanut Farmer Prez. The next brick in the Conservatives' cornerstone is that Clinton supposedly strengthened Carter's regulations that families should be able to afford a home. I'm quite sure that no one ever said that you have to give POOR people loans to buy RICH people's mansions, and I'll assure you that never happened. Even if real estate had increased in value from Carter to Clinton, it was still affordable for lower-income people to pay off loans in all but the most-ridiculously overpriced areas of the U.S. There are trailer homes and other cheap housing, especially in certain parts of the country. To imply that Clinton, about a dozen years ago, is "mostly" responsible for the housing and bank meltdown which has occurred in the last two years is not even worth that much scrutiny. It implies that everything which has happened since has occurred in some form of vacuum, even though with the internet boom everything is usually available before it actually IS available! HA!
Anyway, all this huffing and puffing is leading up to why America is in the situation it is today. I don't believe it has anything to do with the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution, but those could may well be contributing factors. Does it have to do with a corruption of Capitalism? This is something I find interesting. I realize that real estate prices fluctuate especially based on where you live. But I live in California, and real estate prices are obscene compared to most anyplace else. Now, what sets these "obscene" prices, even now as they sink in the quicksand? Is it just supply and demand, or is there something inherently flawed in the current Capitalist society which makes it just too easy for everybody to take a slice of the pie until the pie is long gone and worth far less than any outside observer could possibly imagine?
This is probably the ultimate "Shut up, Mark!!" of all-time. Please forgive me.
First off, I do make some political comments here and there and probably enough for you to either write me off as an extremist wacko or as somebody "bought and sold in the marketplace". In general, I do look at politics as a "way of life" but it's really something fluid and not set in stone. This is one of the reasons why I'm so disappointed (albeit highly entertained) when I listen to U.S. "talk radio". Since Obama won the election, you have the exact same Conservative commentators saying almost exactly the same thing as they did when Bush was President, but now it's prefaced with "We're conservatism in exile. Hopefully, we'll [Vocal conservatives] survive before we all get audited and/or hauled off to jail or the U.S. ("the Greatest Nation that God ever put on the face of the Earth") gets turned into a Commie Dictatorship by Premier/King Obama." I'm telling you the truth that this is not an exaggeration. Now, I want to tell the people who I haven't already turned off that I'm open to all sides of the equation. I hate the idea that somebody knows all there is to know and that they can never learn anything, especially about "politics", but it fits with movies too. Think about it. Somebody says this is the way it is and it'a always been that way. Well, even if they're correct (about whatever they're babbling about), if you find something they say or the way they say it objectionable, then you are locked into something resembling partisan politics.
Wow! This is already really boring, but what I'm trying to get at, and forgive me if this is beneath the intelligence of most of this board (I actually believe it is, but it's still all over the radio, TV and internet), but I'm interested in the fact that conservatives claim they believe in Liberty. You know, the kind of Liberty mentioned in the Declaration of Independence. The kind of Liberty which was refused by our government to women and racial minorities for years. In fact, it was often denied to poor white trash males if it possibly could be. The only reason I'm mentioning "Conservatives" now is because ever since my truck started eating certain of my musical choices, I've been listening to Conservative Radio. I believe in listening to both sides and hearing them speak, repeatedly, over a stretch of time. You cannot say that you understand what someone believes by reading a few paragraphs or listening to a very embarrassing gaffe, but you can understand them if you listen to them day-in and day-out Thay's why I'm posting this pointless post. Actually, I'm hoping I say just enough and yet not quite so much that I get the attention of anyone with a mind who finds themselves to be a political being, and I would hope that that's everyone, especially since the average I.Q. of MoFo members has to be off the chart compared to other sites. :cool:
You see, my curse is that I can see different sides of the same question, but the reality is that people have to work together, so describing FDR or Ronald Reagan as some form of messiah doesn't work with me. It cannot be all black-and-white, and that's why I would hope that people would be able to take the most complimentary aspects of differing economic principles and blend them together. Once the results may be able to be construed, then we can tweak them to work even better. I have to admit that this concept may have never been applied before, but I'm pretty sure it has. The second Continental Congress found that it had to "rationalize" the idea of Slavery with the beautiful words "All men are created equal". It was a bitter fight, but the side of the slaveholders was upheld, and of course, almost a century later, it led to the Civil War. It took another century to enforce similar laws through "the Land of the Free". The Constitution of the U.S., which seems to be imbued with countless Godly intonations by certain Conservatives, never once mentions God. This doesn't matter to me, but the implication that if you're a Liberal, you're a Godless, anarchistic Communist and if you're a Conservative, you're a God-fearing, patriotic Capitalist is an insult, not only to me, but to everything the Freedoms that some people rail on and on about have to offer to any and all Americans, regardless of their "race, religion, creed, color, or opinions".
Crap! I haven't even gotten to why I started this post, and I'm starting to wonder if any of our non-American, maybe-Commie (not a slur) family will follow along with this train of thought. Theoretically, the semi-collapse of the U.S. economy is responsible for the semi-collapse of the world economy, and things are likely to get worse before they get better. Now, U.S. conservatives will tell you that Jimmy Carter was the instigator of this collapse over 30 years ago. Apparently, Carter, when he wasn't trying to screw over America in other ways, instigated a law where banks were encouraged to give loans to lower-income families to help them follow their "concept of the American Dream". Now, I don't especially recall the housing market or the banks undergoing a meltdown during the Carter presidency, even if things were pretty screwed up. Luckily for me, my father was my employer during the time, and even if I was so poor, I rarely paid taxes (remember, I'm an over-educated, underachieving bum), I don't recall our family "suffering" at all under the Peanut Farmer Prez. The next brick in the Conservatives' cornerstone is that Clinton supposedly strengthened Carter's regulations that families should be able to afford a home. I'm quite sure that no one ever said that you have to give POOR people loans to buy RICH people's mansions, and I'll assure you that never happened. Even if real estate had increased in value from Carter to Clinton, it was still affordable for lower-income people to pay off loans in all but the most-ridiculously overpriced areas of the U.S. There are trailer homes and other cheap housing, especially in certain parts of the country. To imply that Clinton, about a dozen years ago, is "mostly" responsible for the housing and bank meltdown which has occurred in the last two years is not even worth that much scrutiny. It implies that everything which has happened since has occurred in some form of vacuum, even though with the internet boom everything is usually available before it actually IS available! HA!
Anyway, all this huffing and puffing is leading up to why America is in the situation it is today. I don't believe it has anything to do with the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution, but those could may well be contributing factors. Does it have to do with a corruption of Capitalism? This is something I find interesting. I realize that real estate prices fluctuate especially based on where you live. But I live in California, and real estate prices are obscene compared to most anyplace else. Now, what sets these "obscene" prices, even now as they sink in the quicksand? Is it just supply and demand, or is there something inherently flawed in the current Capitalist society which makes it just too easy for everybody to take a slice of the pie until the pie is long gone and worth far less than any outside observer could possibly imagine?
This is probably the ultimate "Shut up, Mark!!" of all-time. Please forgive me.