Girl Problem (cont.)

[Equilibrium]

[edited]

[Sleezy]

You're thinking too much.

If you and this girl really feel deeply and genuinely for one another, chances are you got there by being yourself. So just do the same now. That's the best you can do for her; that's what she wants and expects, I imagine. Of course she's going to have doubts, having dated this other guy for so long. I know it's agonizing, but it's probably no picnic for her either: she's got the feelings of two guys she cares about on the line.

Like I said, just be yourself. Be the rock for her, no matter what. At some point, she's going to make a choice, and I'd be willing to bet she'll choose the guy who was patient and considerate and honest the whole time. And that's what you should be anyway.

Just don't play any games with her. Don't cut off contact to see if she starts ringing your phone off the hook. Just be there for her, step back when she needs you to, and all should be okay.

And if it isn't, and she goes with the other guy, well... it'll hurt, but as long as you be all the things I mentioned above, then you'll know you did all you could.

Good luck, man. :) Keep us posted.

[Godsend]

Women are ****ing ****s.

All you need to do is **** them and leave. Words are troublesome.

[Sleezy]

Women are ****ing ****s.

All you need to do is **** them and leave. Words are troublesome.

Whatever it was that made you want to say that, it still doesn't give you the right to talk about women like that.

You should apologize.

[gummo]

Putting Godsend's dumbass remark aside for a minute; I think you will be miserable either way. What if she chooses you...then leaves you when something better (in her eyes) comes along. It just sounds like she is holding onto you in case she loses this other guy. Why does she have such a hold on you buddy? She obviously doesn't feel the same way for you or else she would be with you right now. You have been aching over this woman for how long now, and she still won't come back? It's time to be honest and tell her that you have too strong of feelings for her and if she can't be with you, then you are going to have to get past her. It's not an altimatum. Heartache is a killer bud!

[Othelo]

Wait until he leaves, don't see her in the meantime. Give her time to process things. You can talk to her but seeing her too soon would be very very bad. Give it a little time, give yourself time to prepare for either possibility. If things are going to work between the two of you, some baggage must be disposed of and that sometimes takes a while.

Coming out of any long term relationship, regardless of distance, is difficult. The last thing you want to be is a rebound. Regardless of your feelings for her, and hers for you, jumping right in is a bad idea.

Best of luck, give yourself time and space and remember there can and always will be another "her", but there is only one you.

[7thson]

I sense that the only answer you are looking for is one that places you in her arms and "they all lived happily ever after". You have two choices and it is for you (and her) to decide which course to take:

1. You have to go all out and put everything you have into making this girl realize that you are hers, heart and soul, No holds barred.!!

2. Walk away, only you know if this is the right choice, but if you do not choose choice number one, you have to choose this option. It will hurt, it will sting, but one day you will see that it may have been the right answer.

No more indecision; you are either meant for each other or you are not, do not hurt yourself mentally by prolonging your desires.
And remember; If you do go all out and do not win her over then by God you learned early on that it was not meant to be and you saved a lot of years, or you go all out and it pays off and you two live a long time in each others arms and share many things. Either way, you need to (for lack of better metaphor) cut bait or fish my man.:) Good Luck.

[shirble]

Women are ****ing ****s.

All you need to do is **** them and leave. Words are troublesome.

Aah, a romantic. I love it.

While I'll happily agree most people are rather crap, there's no need to get all barky about it. And morals for the win, Godsend. All that ****ing and leaving is a bit rude.

What if she chooses you...then leaves you when something better (in her eyes) comes along.

Ehh, idunno. I think that implies that she has slightly malicious tendencies. Mind you, as much as I'm not a fan of the idea, I'm a pretty firm believer that love is who is the best possible fit for you at the moment. So right now I'm going to believe that it's a fact that the girl loves him, legitamitely, and that it is something that is not worth giving up on.

The entire situation just seems like a bit of a waiting game, though. So, honestly, I wouldn't worry right now. Just wait a few days until he goes back home, and let all of the confusion marinate with her, and THEN let yourself worry. I'll agree with whomever it was who said that you should act exactly as you have before the boyfriend came over. The last thing you want is to give her any impression of either excessive neediness or standoffishness. Make it clear that you're giving her time to think this over and that you support her, and then back away and act normally.

[Equilibrium]

I see. :(

[shirble]

I genuinely think things are looking good for you, if that means anything. It sounds like this is the first time she has even thought of being with someone other than her boyfriend of x-number of years, so clearly she thinks you offer something that no one else has yet to. I would probably say that it is more a problem of guilt towards the other guy than it is anything else. And guilt is not synonymous with proper love.

[Equilibrium]

I genuinely think things are looking good for you, if that means anything. It sounds like this is the first time she has even thought of being with someone other than her boyfriend of x-number of years, so clearly she thinks you offer something that no one else has yet to. I would probably say that it is more a problem of guilt towards the other guy than it is anything else. And guilt is not synonymous with proper love.


This is true, and she has mentioned her guilt several times so I do think it has more to do with guilt than anything else.

Lets hope you're right shirble.

[Sedai]

I don't know... How about you be the big man and put a stop to all of this. The chick is with someone. I know if I had been with someone fore 7 (or, say, 10) years, I wouldn't want some sly dude trying to slide in with my girl, attempting to court her while she was committed to someone else, even if she instigated it... People get feelings for one another all the time, but, committment is a choice, a decision. Also, girls get confused, a lot.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but, There aren't many people I disrespect more than people that pursue interests with people who are already in a relationship. It's weak, big time. I mean, can people stand up and try to meet someone that is actually available? Attempting to court a vulnerable confused girl seems sort of predatory, to me.

This is seven years of people's lives you are playing with. Think about it.

She is attempting to fill holes that have formed in their relationship. Fill them with you. You are being used. She wants to have her cake and eat it to. It's unfair to him. It's unfair to you. I would much rather pursue someone that knows who they are, at least somewhat, can stand on their own two feet, and won't attempt to have the best of both worlds by acting all wishy washy with two different dudes.

Nah. Played that game, it's no fun, and people get hurt. Think about the motives at work here.

[Yoda]

Hey Eq. Sorry to hear you're having trouble, man. Anyway, I dunno if my advice is useful, or even particularly welcome, but in case you find it helpful at all, here it is:

All of us here know you as a very intelligent and very emotional person; I'm guessing you'd probably agree on both counts. Because you're intelligent, I have no doubt that you know how dangerous this entire situation must sound to someone on the outside. But because you're emotional as well, I realize it may not do much good to say so.

Twice in my (admittedly short) adult life, I've found myself in a situation like yours in that I was trying to make someone who had interest in me want me more. I even wondered, just as you're wondering now, whether or not I should drop all contact and let them come to me. I know now, however, that once someone finds themselves asking that question, the relationship is probably already lost. The "should I play it cool?" question only comes up when the relationship is failing to develop properly on its own. I think it's usually an act of desperation, and I say that more as a critique of my behavior than yours.

Also, I think that anyone who is willing to leave a long-term relationship on your account is surely going to be willing to leave you the next time someone new (and therefore exciting) comes along.

And as harsh as this may sound (and I don't mean for it to), you've described yourself as being hopelessly in love with several girls over the course of just a couple of years, and each time, you explained, vividly and convincingly, that you simply could not see yourself getting over said girl. But obviously, in the past, you have. So while it's hard to see past the situation you're in now, but I think you'll probably get past this one, too,

A friend of mine had a girlfriend awhile back who was determined to move their relationship along at warp speed. When they eventually broke up (after several years), she rushed headlong into another relationship. And then again. Each time, within weeks, she was adorning her MySpace profile with declarations of love. Words like "eternity" and talk of her unending happiness and dedication took months, rather than years, to appear. It was like wanting to construct the world's tallest building in record time and not caring where it was built or what the foundation was made of.

I'm not a pyschologist, but I don't think this is all explained by the fact that she, like some people, simply fell in love very easily. I think it stems from a failure to distinguish between love, and being in love, and a need to duplicate the steadidness of the genuine long-term relationship that she'd lost. I don't think you can artificially speed up that sort of affection, though. If you do, it seems to me that you end up giving yourself over to someone who does not realize you're doing so, does not appreciate the fact that you're doing so, doesn't feel as intensely towards you as you do them, or who may simply not be the person you think they are. You have to know and see someone for a long time, I think, before you can give them that kind of influence over you.

I wish you nothing but the best. In the past, I've had numerous people, whose judgement I trusted entirely, warn me about things like this. And even when everything they said aligned perfectly with the suspicions I already had, I couldn't bring myself to listen to them. I had to learn the hard way. And I did. I hope you can avoid that, at least in this instance, but if not, well, I certainly won't be judging you.

Best of luck, man. I hope this helped in some small way.

[Equilibrium]

Hey Eq. Sorry to hear you're having trouble, man. Anyway, I dunno if my advice is useful, or even particularly welcome, but in case you find it helpful at all, here it is:

All of us here know you as a very intelligent and very emotional person; I'm guessing you'd probably agree on both counts. Because you're intelligent, I have no doubt that you know how dangerous this entire situation must sound to someone on the outside. But because you're emotional as well, I realize it may not do much good to say so.

Twice in my (admittedly short) adult life, I've found myself in a situation like yours in that I was trying to make someone who had interest in me want me more. I even wondered, just as you're wondering now, whether or not I should drop all contact and let them come to me. I know now, however, that once someone finds themselves asking that question, the relationship is probably already lost. The "should I play it cool?" question only comes up when the relationship is failing to develop properly on its own. I think it's usually an act of desperation, and I say that more as a critique of my behavior than yours.

Also, I think that anyone who is willing to leave a long-term relationship on your account is surely going to be willing to leave you the next time someone new (and therefore exciting) comes along.

And as harsh as this may sound (and I don't mean for it to), you've described yourself as being hopelessly in love with several girls over the course of just a couple of years, and each time, you explained, vividly and convincingly, that you simply could not see yourself getting over said girl. But obviously, in the past, you have. So while it's hard to see past the situation you're in now, but I think you'll probably get past this one, too,

A friend of mine had a girlfriend awhile back who was determined to move their relationship along at warp speed. When they eventually broke up (after several years), she rushed headlong into another relationship. And then again. Each time, within weeks, she was adorning her MySpace profile with declarations of love. Words like "eternity" and talk of her unending happiness and dedication took months, rather than years, to appear. It was like wanting to construct the world's tallest building in record time and not caring where it was built or what the foundation was made of.

I'm not a pyschologist, but I don't think this is all explained by the fact that she, like some people, simply fell in love very easily. I think it stems from a failure to distinguish between love, and being in love, and a need to duplicate the steadidness of the genuine long-term relationship that she'd lost. I don't think you can artificially speed up that sort of affection, though. If you do, it seems to me that you end up giving yourself over to someone who does not realize you're doing so, does not appreciate the fact that you're doing so, doesn't feel as intensely towards you as you do them, or who may simply not be the person you think they are. You have to know and see someone for a long time, I think, before you can give them that kind of influence over you.

I wish you nothing but the best. In the past, I've had numerous people, whose judgement I trusted entirely, warn me about things like this. And even when everything they said aligned perfectly with the suspicions I already had, I couldn't bring myself to listen to them. I had to learn the hard way. And I did. I hope you can avoid that, at least in this instance, but if not, well, I certainly won't be judging you.

Best of luck, man. I hope this helped in some small way.


Wow Chris. I'm really grateful for the time and effort you spent on your response. It not only has helped me, but also will be something that will be on my mind when I must make a decision about what I do.

I agree with alot of what you said and believe me, i am under no delusions about my serial monogamy. Every girl I fall for does seem like "the one" even though I know its merely a relationship. I have no quarells with saying this situation is just the same.

Its nice to get advice from people who have never met me physically but who have at least an understanding about the way I think and feel about things, and I'm glad that was part of your assessment.

In the end what all of you are saying is right. i'm in a lose-lose situation. My best bet is to get up and leave now while I still have the power and the choice to do so. Otherwise I'm lending myself to eventual emotional despair.

Its just a bit hard to walk away at the moment, it feels as though I'm burying something alive? And its hard to walk away from something that you feel isn't done yet, and still has life and hope for success.

I'll wait a few days, hear her out, then do what I have to do from there.

[Yoda]

Yeah, just as there's certain things people online will never be able to do for you or help you with, I think there are some things they're even better for than real-life friends. They can be harsher, and blunter, and judge you without the types of bias that might result from knowing you in real life. I'm with you there...some people might think it's silly to ask for advice online, but for some situations, it's far better.

Its just a bit hard to walk away at the moment, it feels as though I'm burying something alive?
I think that's probably the best description of this kind of situation that I've ever heard. Very well put.

I really hope this works out for you, however it should.

[Sedai]

Eq, I don't mean to sound harsh. Sorry if it came across that way. I am just a tiny bit bitter about this subject at the mo... Take what I say with a grain of salt...but, you knew that anyway :)

[Equilibrium]

Eq, I don't mean to sound harsh. Sorry if it came across that way. I am just a tiny bit bitter about this subject at the mo... Take what I say with a grain of salt...but, you knew that anyway :)

No I understand. Believe me I don't like being the ******* who copped a feel from a girl who had a seven year relationship going, Even if she was the one who instigated everything. So I understand the harshness and I do embrace it, you know we've both been here a long time so there won't be any hard feelings.

On the other hand, maybe we can chat sometime..or something..got aim or a telephone number if you're in the states?

No matter, all I ask is for some interesting reads at this forum to keep me busy. Lol, what happened to Golgot, he was good at dishing out obscenely interesting links.

[Equilibrium]

Ok so he left. And she called me. But its been 25 minutes and its been just CHIT CHAT. i DONT WANT TO *ASK* about what sort of conclusion she came to. What should I do??? Or is it okay to ask her "so, whats going on with..."

etc.

[shirble]

Hah, yeah, I would say it's beyond okay to ask. She possibly feels a bit awkward bringing up her boyfriend in front of you. I think you definitely need to make it clear how important all of this stuff is to you, if you already haven't.

[Equilibrium]

wow. I can't believe what is coming out of her mouth....more on that when this convo ends.

[shirble]

Okey doke

[Equilibrium]

Just hung up with her. It took a while to ask her but i did. And she didn't say much, she kept humming and saying "I feel alot better now" over and over again. So I kept making forward remarks and statements until she finally said, "He said we can't be in a relationship right now, it would have been nice if he would have forgiven me though, but I'm okay with it now" It took me a while to think about this, but basically that implies that she WANTED to get back together with him.....and he turned HER down. I had no idea that her intentions were to get back with him, but now hes rejected her.

Makes me so angry, this means the last few weeks or so she's spent with me...were also spent trying to win her Ex back.

Damnit. What now?

[shirble]

I would ask her if those were in fact her intentions. If possible, just sit down with her and have a genuine conversation about it. If you need it, write down questions beforehand, of everything that you want to know in order to clear your thoughts. The worst thing to do is leave with even more questions. You have the right to be forceful about all of this.

[Equilibrium]

Oh and she says she kissed him, once.

[shirble]

: \

[Equilibrium]

We just had a conversation on msn about this. Anyone wishing to analyze the situation further would be more than welcome to...I'll send the convo.

[thmilin]

Alrighty, I'm in late on this ...

I'll do it in reverse - would you feel weird posting the convo here? You can PM it to me if you like, although I recognize we don't know each other well and I ain't been around much for a long while. No worries either way.

... I am always willing to discuss these things with people because I've been through a lotta sick sh|t starting from childhood and have made it a life mission to remove toxic relationships and unhealthy human being situations from my life and to help others figure out how to do the same for themselves. To identify toxic situations and be real with myself AND the other person if things are bad/wrong/confused/unhappy. To search for healthier ways to be happy, even if those healthy ways seem really, really hard. You deserve to be happy, and if you're shooting yourself in your own foot then you should see what you're doing and try to trash the gun.

No person should suffer needlessly in caring for another person due to the other person's actions. It's one thing if the other person doesn't know what they're doing to you, it's another if they do. You have to take stock, evaluate their actions, for they speak louder than words, and evaluate your own actions. These actions tell tell you how you really feel. We get easily caught up in what we think about, what we think about them, what we think they're thinking ... we make excuses, bend truths, blind ourselves, mislead ourselves - and them. It only hurts us in the end, and we can avoid it if we own up and face results.

That being said ...

...

You only paraphrased your phone convo so I could not tell if those were your lady's exact words. The sense I got (although incomplete) does not concretely confirm that she was actively trying to get back with him while being with you. They imply she wanted forgiveness and didn't get it, and he told her they couldn't be in a relationship.

That doesn't mean she asked if she could be, and that doesn't mean she wanted to be. Note, those are two very different things. Someone said women are confused - we can be, unfortunately. Men can be too.

Basically when two people make you feel good, you don't want to lose the two people and end up feeling crappy not wanting to actively drop one, the other, or both. Out of guilt, the desire not to be the bad guy, the desire to prove she can be a good girlfriend (ie, overcompensate for her crime) she could have asked him to try again.

Or, she could have said nothing, having no decision either way, and if he'd said, let's work at this, she would have, out of no active effort on her part (ie, it's comfortable, it's 7 years invested, he says let's try, so she says, okay. so what's easier, leaving, or staying to try?)

She could have also wanted to be in the relationship *conditionally.* Ie, the conditions existing that caused her to stray have to change. Ie, she wants the relationship to exist in a totally new way and if it won't improve, have you instead. This means (and it happens all the time) - that if he shapes up, he proves the better specimen and she would choose him over you. IF he shapes up. So if he'd said, i'll shape up, you shape up, let's work it out - she'd have gone ahead and left you.

He also could have basically just arrived to break up with her officially, and she was expecting it, and wanted forgiveness for the thing that caused the break up, but had no desire or intention of trying to be with him again.

She could have definitely wanted him back and was willing to drop you if he said yes. She could have definitely not wanted him back and was willing to drop him for you and wanted an official closing to the relationship.

Whatever. She could have felt 13 variations on the above - and still not been sure what she wanted or was going to end up doing.

Why? You're circling around it and thinking you can convince her - but she's not convinced either way. Both males had to do something to solidify her romantic future. But SHE wasn't capable of doing it herself. You thought you had to convince her and try to keep her.

Her man showed up and didn't bother trying. Why? He might have known what others in this thread are trying to tell you

... if you ask yourself HOW to keep her, you already lost her. Or, glass half full (honestly, it is): She already left you.

And if you ask yourself HOW to keep her, that doesn't automatically assume she is worth trying to keep. I'm not saying she isn't worth keeping, i'm just saying, just because you're scared to lose her doesn't mean she shouldn't be lost. That sounds harsh but we often miss the things we can't have because we have a sense of "i'm not finished with it yet and i want it now". we're thinking, i didn't get to read the book or get very far and it feels so right and i think the plot will be fantastic and now that i can't finish it i am bereft and betrayed and incomplete and ...

that book could end badly. that book ran away and went back to the library. should you chase it down and try to keep it, just because you didn't finish it? or let it be and realize there are other books ... fish ... in the sea, and if it is SO fricken hard to keep it, that means it's lost and maybe it isn't yours to keep. not in the sense of she belongs to another man, but in your lives, she's just not yours to have. simple as that. she's not trying hard enough, her man isn't, and you aren't. in the end, maybe it's best if you just don't try NOW after the fact.

Now, why her leaving you could be a good thing ... She already left you, and that's a good thing, this book going back to the library.

The glass is half full because you should not be expending your humanity, your heart, your faith, your love, on a person who doesn't know what she wants. Seriously. You have all that love inside you and there is no reason on earth it should ever be spent on someone who doesn't know d@mn good and well they want to be with you, and is willing to be "a man" about it, own up, and handle it gracefully.

Ie, you should *never have to read a book you can't finish*. If you can help it any way. Yeah she put the mojo on you. Yeah, sometimes life's unfair and takes things away from you and it's harsh. But in the end, she should not have tried to be with someone who couldn't have her 100%, and that goes for you AND her original man. It was selfish and cruel of her to do that toyou.

She doesn't see it that way, and you don't, but it's the truth. People think just because they don't actively plot crimes against others they're not doing bad evil things to those they care about. They don't think they're being bad, selfish, mean, or cruel.

Well, they are. Just because you weren't looking when you walked on my toes with spike heels doesn't mean you didn't break all my piggly wigglies. I have met so many people like this who take advantage of others or pretend to be oblivious and then one day someone goes "wake the f*ck up you sonofab*tch and stop being a sh|t" and they go, "i wasn't being a sh|t i had no idea i was hurting you!"

we are always responsible for how we treat others and if we refuse to acknowledge how we treat others, that's our fault, not theirs. she is responsible for how she treated you and her other man.

and you're responsible for how you treated her man via her.

What she should have done was called her man within days of kissing you, and told him she met someone and is not sure about their future. What she should have done was told you, we have to stop this because I'll hurt both of you if we keep on. What she should have done was stopped BEING SELFISH and put a halt to letting you stroke her ego and avoiding facing up to the man miles away. she should have faced him first, closed it down, took some time, then meandered around to trying things out with you if it still felt right to both of you.

..........

analysis compared to others - I agree with the amalgam of what shirble, sedai, and gummo said.

Eq, you began the read with:

I'm looking for advice on what it is I should do to completely make her want me.

And Chris hit it right on the head:

I know now, however, that once someone finds themselves asking that question, the relationship is probably already lost.

If you do, it seems to me that you end up giving yourself over to someone who does not realize you're doing so, does not appreciate the fact that you're doing so, doesn't feel as intensely towards you as you do them, or who may simply not be the person you think they are. You have to know and see someone for a long time, I think, before you can give them that kind of influence over you.


Yes, and it sounds like you weren't with her for very long in this situation, either.


Chris:

I wish you nothing but the best. In the past, I've had numerous people, whose judgement I trusted entirely, warn me about things like this. And even when everything they said aligned perfectly with the suspicions I already had, I couldn't bring myself to listen to them. I had to learn the hard way. And I did. I hope you can avoid that, at least in this instance, but if not, well, I certainly won't be judging you.



Ah Chris, that's what friends are for. We got through it, and we still love ya.

..... the future ....


so, when others say be youself, it's true. don't chase her. no one should be chasing or getting chased. that's a sign someone doesn't want you as much as you want (or think you want) them. that's a sign it's too hard. when it's too hard, that doesn't automatically mean you fight harder, it means maybe it shouldn't happen to begin with.

you should both be running toward each other. instead, she's hemming and hawing on the phone, belittling the magnitude of her conversation with her ex and the obviousness of your desire to be with her.

she takes his calls when you're there but won't offer you the same courtesy. she doesn't reach out for you she lets you reach out for her. she dances around things and won't commit. she's vulnerable and confused and unsure and uncertain and ...

being selfish. she's not thinking "i feel so much i have to be with you and be honest with myself so I cut the ties and am taking the risks. "

she's not thinking about you and how she feels about you at all. she's thinking about herself. and how she feels.

it's totally her right to do that, its just a sign of where her priorities are. she is not even in a state right now to be in a relationship with you and be good to you on, as Chris described, a genuine foundation.

she may very well be a faker. by that i mean, she believes in faking it until something forces her to change. she faked her 7 year relationship long distance until you came along. she faked passivity with her ex until he said "i don't want this any more".

she avoids having to make the decisions, own up to them, claim what she wants, be honest about it, and be prepared to get yelled at or deal with her own actions and desires. she puts it on you, she puts it on him, but never on her.

selfish selfish, and i'm sorry, but if i'm going to be with a selfish person it better be the "i have to have you all to myself and no one else can have you" type of selfish. not the "i'm so confused and can't make a choice and there's all this pressure and i don't know what i want so wait there while I think about it" selfish.

you are a valuable person. your time, heart, and feelings are valuable.

she isn't treating them like they are. so you can take a hint from her ex. you don't have to cut her off altogether.

you can just say, "this is crap, i'm the other man, and i won't be treated like this. i have feelings for you, i'd like to try to be with you, but you had better clean your act up and decide what you want and be honest. i'm not going to try to convince you, i just refuse to invest my energy into a hole with no visible bottom."

hope this helps. yes, i write a lot. it's what i do. :P

[Equilibrium]

thmlyn ill send it to you in an email if you pm me the adresss....im mprinting out your response and reading it later..

[Sedai]

Great Post Thimilin

[Equilibrium]

thy,
I read your post. and thank you so much for spending that amount of time..for those few minutes when someone writes about this situation..i feel like the heavy weight on my heart is lifted if only temporarly while someone else shares with me the feelings I'm going through.


I still want to send you that convo, pm me your email.

As far as the future goes...you're saying that i should let her know how i feel and ask for some space? (shes going back to her hometown..where he lives..for christmas break) Should I ask her for space during that time period and see how things are when she returns?


I mean, I have class with her in a few hours....it'll be the first time ive seen her since he came to spend thanksgiving her..and seeing as how we kind of left on a bad note last night..i don't know what to do or say..

[Equilibrium]

Actually our class together doesn't start until about 7 hours from now...so please..if you have anything to say..say it now.

Because i wish i knew what to say to her.

[gummo]

Now she's on the rebound. She wants the other guy back too. How much clearer does this need to be? Sorry to be blunt.

[Equilibrium]

Now she's on the rebound. She wants the other guy back too. How much clearer does this need to be? Sorry to be blunt.

Gummo, i just don't know what the right thing to do is. walk away from the girl i love, having regrets about what it would have been like?

Or take the bait, and willingly fall into the trap of her arms, knowing she may at a moment's notice change her mind again.

6 hours and counting, still don't know what to say.

[Sedai]

Gummo, i just don't know what the right thing to do is. walk away from the girl i love, having regrets about what it would have been like?

...could have been like. You have no idea what would have actually happened. I get caught in this line of thinking myself sometimes. React to what is happening, as that is what is actually important here. I have to tell myself that each and every day...

Or take the bait, and willingly fall into the trap of her arms, knowing she may at a moment's notice change her mind again.

6 hours and counting, still don't know what to say.

If bait is involved, things aren't well. Try to maintain perspective from a distance if possible (it isn't easy). Let's say the following happens...

The girl decides to get with you, and attempt a relationship, even though she is unsure. She figures, "Hey, I like this dude, I feel... something, although I am not sure what, I guess I'll give it a go". You get together. Time starts going by, you two get used to one another, you get comfortable. You may even get a place, start living together. meanwhile, this girl has this tiny voice in the back of her mind that keeps saying "Is this right? What do I feel about this, Is this guy just a really good friend?" Meanwhile, she cares about you and won't express her misgivings about the relationship, hoping they will either go away, or that she will come to some conclusion later. She won't.

Ok, it's later. Say, 10 years later. You two are older, thinking about a life and a future, and this girl is srtill thinking about this stuff sometimes. "Did I make the right choice? Can he make me happy? Why don't I feel this way, or why do I feel this way?... I love this guy, I know that, but what KIND of love is it?" Then, the cycle starts to repeat, with you in the place of this other cat she is with... Let me tell you, you do NOT want to go through this...especially after years together...

I am of the mind that all women, at some point in their lives, need to go through some stuff that helps them to stand on their own two feet and not question each and every decision they make...second guess, if you will. Sounds like this girl has yet to do that. You aren't her answer, and neither is this other dude. SHE is her answer, but she doesn't want to be alone. It's terrifying, so terrifying she will build up defenses in order to never end up alone, thinking not being alone is the key to figuring out how to be really happy. Fallacy. She needs to figure out how to feel strong and happy, by herself, before she can entertain any tandem happiness with another person...true happiness with another person. I mean, why is she involved with you in the first place? She has spent seven years with a dude, clearly isn't totally happy in the situation, and is now entertaining ideas that you might hold the key to her ultimate happiness. You don't. She does.

Here is a true test of love. Tell her about this concept. Then tell her, you aren't interested in getting to gether with someone that hasn't explorred these avenues of personal growth, but, that you feel deeply for her and hope that when she does start her journey of self happiness, you will be there as a friend to support her. Once she has aquired a few personal scars or growth (they do hurt, and they do come, even if you don't want them to), the two of you can explore something more, as separate individuals that can approach the relationship with fresh vigor, without all the baggage that you guys already seem to be lugging around.

This will accomplish multiple tasks. She will become a stronger and more self sufficient person, able to give over more of herself to another, because she will understand that self better. It will give you a chance to see if your feelings for her flag (meaning it might ust have been an infatuation) or grow, (meaning you probably DO love her, and will love her more for the strength she has shown in personal growth). It will also give you a chance to apply the above ideas to yourself, as, they don't seem to apply to only women, from what i can tell. That is sacariest of all, and I am right in the middle of it, right now. it is quite refreshing, though, in some ways. Spead time alone, a lot of time. Can you stand it? Can you be comfortable coming home each to to..you? It isn't easy.

[thmilin]

i'll send my email shortly...

Here is a true test of love. Tell her about this concept. Then tell her, you aren't interested in getting to gether with someone that hasn't explorred these avenues of personal growth, but, that you feel deeply for her and hope that when she does start her journey of self happiness, you will be there as a friend to support her. Once she has aquired a few personal scars or growth (they do hurt, and they do come, even if you don't want them to), the two of you can explore something more, as separate individuals that can approach the relationship with fresh vigor, without all the baggage that you guys already seem to be lugging around.

This will accomplish multiple tasks. She will become a stronger and more self sufficient person, able to give over more of herself to another, because she will understand that self better. It will give you a chance to see if your feelings for her flag (meaning it might ust have been an infatuation) or grow, (meaning you probably DO love her, and will love her more for the strength she has shown in personal growth). It will also give you a chance to apply the above ideas to yourself, as, they don't seem to apply to only women, from what i can tell. That is sacariest of all, and I am right in the middle of it, right now. it is quite refreshing, though, in some ways. Spead time alone, a lot of time. Can you stand it? Can you be comfortable coming home each to to..you? It isn't easy.



exaaaactly.

basically, your lady hasn't grown up. the woman and relationship gummo describes above is what i called a "faker."

someone who goes through the motions, tells everyone around them they're happy, tells themselves they're happy, but deep down they live in confusion and uncertainty.

gummo hit it on the head. chris hinted it at it too -

you need to be okay with being by yourself before you're ever going to be okay in a relationship.

it comes back to the bird in the hand - that adage about, if you truly love someone/something, you've got to let it go. fighting so hard for something may be a sign that your intentions and your feelings aren't really true and honest.

when someone works so hard to pretend everything is fine (her initial 20 min on the phone with you, her not saying anything to her man while she was dating you), she is busy being in denial.

if she can't face who she is, what she wants, and figure out and deal with it, she can't be good to you, she can't be good to him, and she can't be good to herself.

it's like taping up a busted dam. it's only temporary, not a long term fix, and the dam is going to burst one day and cause some serious tragedy.

what if she and her ex had been married? whatif she had 2 kids when you met her?

then what? she's probably going to be in that situation someday - if it's not you, as gummo describes, it'll be someone else.

she has to learn.

...

when you see her, let her see you're hurt and upset, don't hide that. but don't chase her or fight for her or convince her. be ... zen.

as in, satisfied with who you are and what you're doing. and be absolutely confident and free to let her know you are NOT satisfied with who she is being and what she's doing in this situation.

don't worry about the could have been right now. you don't want that. what you want is, what could be IF SHE CLEANS UP (see how it comes full circle?).

and again, it comes down to actions. i think we all agree in this thread we want you to let it go but we also understand why it's hard.

but when someone spends the holidays with a man they cheated on and broke up with and leaves the man they cheated with alone - that says something. she isn't running to you, she isn't *making space in her life* for you.

when someone doesn't do that - she's not prioritizing you at all. when she answers his calls but not yours, when she frets over him, not you,when she spends the most valuable time with someone else- she's not prioritizing you.

she is prioritizing herself, or someone else, but not you.

in this situation - which, honestly, i've been in, which is why i'm here to own up and help - you back away like she's a bottle of scotch and you're an alcoholic. she is bad juju.

she seems so tasty, so new, so intense, so satisfying.

but she's hurting you right now, and she's not doing anything about it.

in all honesty i am betting she feels two things right now:

- i wish he'd go away so i don't have to think about this or face this, he makes me feel so guilty, i shouldn't be responsible for his feelings, look at the mess he made of things

- i can't deal with him right now but i won't burn bridges b/c i'm a good person and that'd be mean. plus if it really doesn't work out with Man #1 maybe he and i can start dating again.

i think what you're finding shocking right now is that she's capable of this behavior, which we generally tie to f*ckwits (players).

but that's the problem with a true player. that's how they get into your heart and screw you up. they honestly believe they aren't hurting you and feel helpless. they are genuinely trying to make everybody happy - and therefore no one's happy.

what they're doing is being selfish while faking that they're being good to you. she's probably said things that make you say - oh look, see there, she is so sweet, she really does care, how can i leave her?

when in reality she's saying those sweet things to cover up her bad behavior and make herself feel better. she's saying those sweet things to make *herself* feel better. you're thinking, no, she's saying them to make ME feel better. it's true - by making YOU feel better, you stop making her feel guilty, she feels relief, and believes her own lies. it's a cycle. so she keeps doing it ... and you keep wavering on whether you should ditch her.

DITCH boy, ditch. when you see her in class, be polite and be honest.

yes, i had a thing for you. i don't think i can' handle what you're doing or what youa re right now so let's just talk in january when you're back and we've had some time. take care, i wish you the best, hope you have a great holiday, but above all, be honest with yourself in what you want and handle this maturely. we're not in high school any more and you can't have 2 boyfriends at one time, you can't have your cake and eat it too. we're not polyamorous and until youv'e figured out what you want, i'm staying single.

and as gummos said, what applies to her applies to you. you will find far more powerful,lasting, and fulfilling relationships when you love yourself for who you are, when you aren't trying to make people love you. when you're okay as a single person, y ou find, miraculously, that you don't give a rat's @ss what people think.

and oddly enough, that's when the hot women show up and you get to look for thewoman who doesn't give a rat's @ss what you think of her either. and you suddently discover all this comfortable chemistry where you aren't lying, sneaking, doubtful, unsure - your'e just you, she's just her, and it's easy, and it flows.

if you have too think too hard about a relationship it's probably not good for you. honestly. it's probably toxic and needs a bleaching out of your system and life so you can find a much better situation somewhere else.

[gummo]

Like 7thson said yesterday, "it seems like the only answer you are looking for is one that puts you in her arms." We have all told you what we think you should do. And most of us are saying the same thing, to let her go...thmilin gave you some great advice on what to say, I back her up on that. Now it's up to you to decide if you are going to take our advice. Ultimately it is your life and YOU need to decide if this is worth all the turmoil. Like thmilin said, you need to love yourself. When you love yourself, you will then be able to be in a true, equally loving relationship with someone else. Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

[Equilibrium]

One hour until I see her. I'm starting to get nervous and edgy. I've read, reread, triple reread and skimmed over everything all of you say.

I pretty much have made up my mind one what I will do. The problem is that in the past i always wind up saying superflous things, or do superflous things. But this time i'm going to try and stick to the gameplan. I won't lie to you, if I find the opportunity to kiss her one more time, I'm doing it. Then I'll sever the ties with her and let her go./ If she ever comes back, I'll hope I'm not involved with somone else.

What I'm going to say to here, and whats going to be the main theme of my conversation with her among the things that sedai and thym mentioned is this..."the moment you decided you wanted him, is the moment you gave up on me. And I cannot be involved with someone who doesn't know what they want"

followed by my idea of how to handle the situation from there on..ie reassessing things in the future. Sounds so good in writing, lets hope its equally as understandable when i say it in words to her.


I'll update you on what happens tonight.

[Equilibrium]

Um. We had class. We acted like normal friends around each other. Laughing, giggling, she touched me alot, hands face...like playfully.

Then she had to go immediately afterwards. So we never got a chance to talk. She was very upbeat, but every now and then she stared off....probably thinking about the situation.

Overall, I'd have to say she was cheerful, but obviously downplaying something that was bothering her.

As soon as we left she texted me "it was nice seeing you"

Um. Damn. What just happened?

[Sleezy]

Um. Damn. What just happened?

Sounds like she might have known a talk was coming, and wanted to avoid it by keeping things light and giggly. I dunno, does it feel like she's buttering you so you won't walk? And do you think she really "had to run"?

Either way, you've got to pin her down and speak your mind. Don't let it get swept under the rug, because it never stays there.

[thmilin]

yeah. go read my email eq. i read your IM convo and responded. she's faking to avoid being responsible.

i had a person similar and ever since i call people i see do the same behavior by the reference - he's adam v****, and i'll go, oh that's an adam, or that's a v****. been there, done that, and now i know to avoid them.

she is manipulating you in social situations to avoid being called on her behavior, being called out for treating you badly, for behaving badly. she gets away with it only if you let her.

i go for the jugular and say, here's x, y, z, that you did and i'm tire of it. i'm done with you. nothing you say, no flirtation, no light convo, no im, no cute little text message is going to change that.

that's generally when they gulp and freak out that you pegged them for what they are and are fed up. then they beg you to take them back.

but by that point you see through them and you're through.

speak your mind. there is no rug. if you let her she'll lead you on with the cuteness then suddenly you'll be only friends and never have talked about how you ended up friends or her part in making you just friends.

and she'll get away with her behavior to date, which, i repeat, is bad juju.

[Equilibrium]

So hard now.

Shes becoming less and less the person I love. And I feel like maybe I'm becoming that way to her too. We haven't spoken to each other for about 11 hours. I dont want to seem needy and call her. And I'm pretty sure she's just thinking "oh he doesn't want to speak to me anymore, ill leave him alone"

So tough. M, I read your emails over and over as a way to keep me from picking up that phone.

[thmilin]

hi eq., ok, i was worried about you when i didn't hear anything. :P

it's not so much she's not who you thought she was, it's that you just didn't see or really know who she was. ie, she's not becoming "less of who you loved" - it's really that she was always this way and you're only now seeing it when it really counts. and you are loving her less as a result. or, finding it harder to love and forgive her.

plus she was making some bad choices and not thinking her behaviors through, leading to results that were bad. and she didn't want to look at those results, herself, or why she did those things and why's trying to avoid thinking or talking about 1) her own actions and her own behaviors and 2) how she feels about you and what your future together may/may not hold.

she just wants to push it under a rug and not be bothered. some people just refuse to. you can't help that. it doesn't mean she's bad or not good or a stranger, it means she's a flawed human being like any one else and at this point, her issues are hurting you and she's not interested in looking at them or solving them to go on and be happy on her own and learn to be good to you and everyone else.

that's why i say let her go, we all do. a girl who does what she has done, how she's done it, and behaves the way she does after the fact to you and her ex, is a girl with problems. she may not thinks she has them, but she does.

a bit self-destructive, self-absorbed, but also lazy - it's too hard and scary to look at herself and think about change and improvement. it's much easier to blame you for being mean or combative for trying to be honest and open and address things before moving on.

and like i said, don't get bogged down - hard, but true - about this. go out and live your life. don't let her take your pride, self love, self confidence, from you because of her own baggage.

get some space, some time, be aroun dfriends, family. laugh, chat, philosophize, travel, dine, see and do things without her.

if time passes and you realize it's not as painful as you thought, then that's your big hint you may not want to go backwards. and again, if it passes and you realize you want another try at it, you can try to talk again.

[Sedai]

Hey...Gummo getting all the credit for my philosophy! Thimilin, I wrote all that, not the gumster!

How are things going now, EQ? It's SO hard to let someone go when you care about them, believe me. But, you can do it! Stick to your guns!

[Equilibrium]

I have taken the advice of the members on this forum and am taking an active approach in just letting things...be. Some of my freinds, who do not know her, have said that I need to gain the power back. She knows how i feel about her, and she knows i keep asking. This makes me seem needy, clingy, and insecure. Thats not attractive.

So they told me to go hang out with friends and stay busy, if she calls or texts, answer her, be kind..polite..funny..be normal with her, but then end the conversation because your friends are calling you.

Basically they're telling me to make her understand that shes not going to be a priority to me, if she isn't going to make me hers.

So i did just that. I hung out with 2 girls and a guy friend of mine. She texted me during, i texted back, we chit chatted andshe asked verbatim "How come i've never met these 'friends'?" Told her the names, and then I said "I have to run doll im being thrown out of the group, ciao"
She responded with "right-later"

Whatever. I'm so beyond her getting angry with me, when I'm the one who should be pissed.


Anyways so under the advice of the same friend, I did not contact her at all, and by midnight last night i had given up hope that she even cared. But I was surprised that around 12:30 am she sent a simple goodnight text.

Woke up this morning unsure of what to do, we have that class again together today. I'm told I still shouldn't call her or text her, unless she does so first, in which case I should wait a little while before getting back to her (i have alot of things to do today so this is going to work out fine). And when I see her in class, act normal, funny, myself, and even be a little flirtatious.

Don't offer to hang out with her after class, unless she asks, in which case dinner in a public place is the limit..

go home and once again, find something to do so that if she calls or texts, she knows i'm busy.




How do you guys feel about this? Does this accomplish anythintg, does this gain back the power, the confidence, and the integrity i gave up for this girl?

does this make her realize the seriousness of losing me as "more than friends" and make her scared that I'll make her a pleutonic friend?

M, sedai, Gummo, and all who have given me advice, one day I swear on whatever little pride, honor, and integrity I still have, I will repay you for the amount of time you are giving me. But it helps so much.

[Sedai]

No need. Glad to help! :)

[Equilibrium]

I feel like my plan to play it cool may be backfiring, she has eliminated me from her "heroes" section, which contained a small dedication to me...

What am I doing, what is she thinking...

[Equilibrium]

I lose it. I'm packing, and I'm not myself. I'm in emotionalturmoil and the only thing that can fix it is a night with her like we used to do.

I called her just now just to chat, asked her why she removed my dedication...she told me it wasnt a big deal and that i was being overdramatic.

When asked "Just tell me, is it over for you?" she answered "Don't be rediculous.I shouldn't have answered you call, I don't feel like talking to anyone. I'm sorry"

So asked if we can talk later, after our class...she said okay..

What is wrongggggggggggg....AH. Shes falling out of love with me isn't she? Someone just say it if you think its the truth.

[thmilin]

well that's what we've been saying, dude! she left you already (she's out of love with you) but won't admit it because she doesn't really KNOW what she wants. and she doesn't want to look like the meanie and prove anyone right - she cheated, kept a man on the side, but didn't really do right by the man on the side either. out of sheer hubris, she's sticking to you being ridiculous and dramatic.

but her actions SHOW what she wants and how she really feels. just because she refuses to say it and says "stop being ridiculous i TOLD you i care about you" does not mean she loves you madly and wants to be with you. her actions show that.

it's like when her boyfriend sensed she was cheating. there were probably weeks in there when he asked and she went, "don't be ridiculous, i'm not seeing anybody, how dare you!" that's projecting again. that's him being "mean and untrusting" and getting in trouble to help her deflect from the lies she's hiding and pulling so she doesn't get caught. and when he learned about you and probably asked again she said, STOP it, you're so sick and selfish, eq. and i are just FRIENDS.

yeah right. and then the end came. lying about it before hand wont' stop the end from happening. telling you to quit tripping does not mean there isn't a problem. again, the rug thing.

re: her being all pissy and changing her myspace on you, having attitude in her texts - all the things you're actively doing to her recently - waiting to text or call back, not contacting her first, being purposefully distant and letting her know you have other priorities - were things she used to do to you.

she doesn't like that. you didn't either, by the way, but you took it cuz you "loved" her. i'm not doubting you feel you love her, but a person can manipulate you into feeling and doing things until your'e convinced. now you're not so sure. i think you're more struck by how much you puty ourselfout there and how shockedy ou are by how she's handling it - you didn't think her capable ofit.

because you lied to yourself, just like she lied to you and herself. if she convinces you well enough, you believe she's completely unselfish and loves you and is a good well meaning person not lying to you in this situation. so your love grows, you forgive her a lot you'd never forgive anyone else.

put it this way. if your best friend treated you like this, would you take it? what about your coworker? your childhood friend? your sister? your parent?

probably not. you would raise hell unti the sh|t flew, cause a shakedown, and demand repercussions,explanations, and no more bullsh|t.

but because she got into your heart, head, and mind, she's getting away with a whole lotta crap no one else would, could, or should.

and now she's getting cranky thaty ou keep challenging those lies, wondering about her behavior, comparing it to conversations with other people, and what you feel deep down is not making you happy.

and she's getting cranky about those challenges, just like any liar would.

you can simplify it more dramatically - i had to do this withmyself re: my best friend - she's the abuser, your'e the abused. you will make up ANY reason to forgive her for stomping all over your heart as long as youcan keep stringing yourself along with hope that she MIGHT turn around that she's just going through something, that she's not quite herself right now, that she really loves you, and then y ou swing back and quiver thinking, she DOESN"T love you, how ill you go on, oh you're hurting so muchinside, maybe you should call her, this will all be solved if you could just be with her and have her.

but what's SHE doing? she's cranky and annoyed with you and not trying to be or have anything deeper than text messages, occasional phone calls, small talk, and superficiality.

she REFUSES to talk to in depth and resolve things and address both of your feelings and SETTLE the issues and MOVE ON. she thinks she can move on by not doing that. that's impossible. you have to both address your own actions, mistakes, forgive each other, THEN move on. you can't just skip to the moving on. you'll continue to doubtyourself, harbor resentments, and play games - both of you.

the thing is, you shouldn't actively be trying to make her miss you. you shouldn't even be in this limbo at all.

i keep saying that you need to have a specific conversation *about your relationship* to set out a plan and act it out. ie, talk for 1 hour, she says what she wants and feels, you say what you want and feel, and then you take the break, and then you come back and sit down again and say what you both want and feel again. if it's different, and good, you start over. if it's not, you part ways or stay "friends."

in all honesty if it's not improved you'll probably both want to not talk to each other again. why? because space will showy ou both you're not happy with, or meant for, each other right now. you'll be happier being yourself somewhere else. maybe one day you could try, but it's not going to kill you to not be together and it's not the end of a great saga, you are not romeo and juliet, and she has some issues and you both began your relationship on a lie.

yes, you did. that's why you are tryign to hold sifting sand together with your bare hands - it started on a lie, dude.

now, i don't advocate actively trying to make her miss you, btw. that'smean and cruel. that'st he game SHE plays. don't do it back to her. be an adult and mature about it and enforce fairness.

you're sick of wondering, you don't want to have to wonder. if she refuses to talk about it to truly elucidate and resolve things then get some space until you can. it's only fair.you shouldn't HAVE to wonder. you shouldn't have to be overthinking every little thing she does and you do instead of just BEING with her.

also, re: the heroes and not liking each other any more andf alling out of love - feeling like the meanie and her applying guilt to you:


when a relationship goes bad sometmesa person is so caught up intheir own issues that they literally see the other person as the only one at fault. in choosing to avoid to address themselves, too, they are basically staring at an equation that should be:

1 + 1 = 2.

And they are instead seeing:

0 + 1 = should be 2

She's 0 thinking you're the one fighting this equation. the problem is, what does 2 equal? friendship? sex and friendship? love, sex and friendship? She refuses to evaluateit with you, talk about it with you, resolve it withyou, forgive each other, say how she really feels, and talk about how you really feel.

She's 0 but thinks she's 1.

You want her to be 1, and she refuses to be.

Your equation is not adding up. Space and time might convince her, not game playing and pettiness.

If it DOESN"T then there is NO WAY you're going to change her brain. her brain is convinced that she's 1 and behaving like af ully committed, kind, giving, open, fair, just, responsible, reasonable, willing to work on it with you. she's not, right now.

and if that means she stares at you and you're the culprit, the bad attitude,the one rockig the boat, pissing her off, unnerving her, confusing her, making her doubt herself, challenging her, making things hard, you can't change her mind there either.

i've had a few of these kinds of people inmy life, and unfortunately they happened to be family so it was very hard forme to say look, if in your mind im' the evil one, fine.

you don't want to be the evil one, you dont' want to be responsible, you want to keep chasing her and committing and hounding her.

but you can't make her look at you any differently, you can'tmake her believe in you or your relationship, you can't MAKE her do anything.

if she believes you're a piece of sh|t now, or someone that makes her uncomfortable with too many demands, and you feel you demands are perfectly fair and reasonable considering you had a romantic relationship, what are you going to do?

walk away. you can only accept that she has the right to think what she thinks and feels. and since you don't agree, you should NOT be staying ther.e you should say your piece - no, i'm ont whaty ou think i'm trying here andyou're not, and i'm tired of it,and i want space, and i'd like to try later, but i'm taking space NOW.

and leave. but like i saidyou gotta talk about it you can't just not tell her this and play mind games with the cell phone and IM.

[Othelo]

I really hate to say this because I know from experience how hard it is to do, but the only thing now to do is walk away.

Whether or not she feels anything for you has now become irrelevant, the two of you are dancing around each other and the relationship has become that, a toxic dance. unless you make a break right now it is doomed to forever be defined by this time. She needs time to be alone, if she so chooses and you need the same. I have been there and I have learned this lesson so hard, I continue to learn it over and over on a daily basis.

I'm not saying harden your heart. What I am saying is that the relationship has become something unhealthy. She needs time to be by herself in the midst of the two of you. If she chooses not to be alone then the relationship won't survive anyway because she is incapable of being a separate, singular human being. The same goes for you. It sounds cliche, but you have to love yourself before you can love anyone else, and you have to be alone before you can be together. You don't want an incomplete person, nor does she and once the drama subsides, what will be left. I doubt it will be much.

I'm not being harsh, you seem like a great guy and I hurt for you. I don't like the fact that someone so open and intelligent is being dragged into depression by someone who can't make a simple choice. Don't fall for it, let go now while you still can. It may take years, but if there is truly something there it will persist and at some time later flourish.

My thoughts are with you as are all the people who posted, draw strength from that, the fact that relative strangers give more than a little of a s*** about your well being.

We hurt for you and we hurt with you.

[Equilibrium]

Okay. 2 Hours until I see her. There's been a few texts between us about random funny stuff.

I'm going to keep my composure and just lay out what you guys said,offer the space. And walk away.

Sounds good on paper...heres whats going tyo happen in real life

Either one of two things:
I break down and we both yelkl at other and say hurtful things...ill be mad if she really fell out of love..ill walk away and everything between us will have been damaged.

I break down..she breaks down..we started kissing and making out but make rules about the futurer and probably do the space thing..


I just need to find out answers from her..especially if shes falling out of love..i want her to just say that...i would be devestated and I can just move on.

[thmilin]

honestly bein devastated and angry is actually better for you. that seems counter-intuitive but it's true.

it's better to think you hate her and have an explosion that gives you both complete release from, what i agree re:othelo, is a toxic dance. an unhealthy situation.

then you can heal, think clearly, move on, and reassess things if and when you're ever ready to.

i highly doubt #2 is gonna happen, fella. sorry. :(

[Sedai]

Damn... I need to take some of this advice, myself... Toxic Dance... I have been in one for almost 6 months! My feet are tired!

EQ, wish you lived close enough where we could go out and grab a beer and bitch about these chicks to one another!

[Equilibrium]

What the ****.

Exactly what I wanted happened tonight.

I don't understand it, but I guess this girl um..still really loves me.



We finish class...meanwhile im being completely myself and we're laughing hysterically about random stuff. Class is over, I say lets ride to starbucks in my car, get something to drink. Shes all happy and is like "sure but my mom is cooking dinner in about an hour and a half". So we go, we're at starbucks, she's giving me looks, like the i like you looks. Shes doing the thing where we're being cute and talking bout random stuff. After about 45 minutes we go back to my car, get inside, and i ask her. So tell me whats on your mind...But she avoided it, and I called her on it "I know you like to avoid thinking about it, but you must if you want to not hurt me"

So she's like ok give me a second, meanwhile we begin to talk about other things..laughing and stuff.....then we hold hands...and she starts playing with my fingers like she used to. So I ask "tell me what you're thinking'


So she goes "Its obvious, break is coming up...and i can't do this long distance thing with you...i can't handle it right now"

SO i says ok "So you're asking for space"

her: "obviously"

So I ask, are you getting back together with your ex and she goes "Not likely, and I don't think I want to, because I don't know what I want"

So I say, "Look I'm going to give you space now and for the next week, but i dont know what to do in the meantime, should i close myself off to you and move on, or should i give you space but leave the door open...i think we should both be on the same page about this"

"I just don't know at all, i don't know what I want and i don't know what its going to be like when i come back"

then she gives me this look, the kind of look where she wants to kiss me....and then bam....we start kissing.

So i look her and say "is it the same, do you feel the same when we are together like this"...she said "yes"

So I was like, okay then, well now we have things cleared up...she gets out of the car...then comes back in...grabs my face and starts kissing me..."thanks for the coffee" and then she was out....10 minutes later she sends me a text "Do you miss me already?"

and now I'm home....

i guess I'm a good judge of situations afterall...i knew something like this might wind up happening.


So I have peace of mind. But is my peace of mind misplaced?

Did I really walk away from this having settled something, or did she get exactly what she wanted? What was with the hand holding and the kissing? A sign of her affection for me when shes not playing games with my mind?

Its clear now what I should do, no matter how hard I have to just distance myself from her a little bit.

Its not going to be hard to give her space....because i like itr when someone asks for space..because then when i back off, they know why..and they begin to miss me...because its kind of like THEY were the ones who needed it, not me ( though i need it too i think?)

I'm a bit excited, a bit relieved, i got my kiss not because i wanted it but because we both wanted it and ive left the ball in her court where i know i cant **** it up since my only job now is to give her space.

What do you guys think of this outcome?

[Equilibrium]

And now shes calling me...even though she needed space...and we're having really good long conversations....wtf is going on here

[Othelo]

Now that space is given it is up to you. "go away and be with yourself" is my best advice. Take up a new hobby, go see movies by yourself, dinner, walk, do something that involves no one else. You have spent so much time in the realm of this other person, its time to define yourself in terms of YOU.

Personally, I don't think this is the end, it may not even be a break because you will hear from her, its just human nature. But if you have to build an insulating shield around yourself do so, you need time to get back to you and all that you mean to yourself.

Speaking of going out and grabbing a beer, the offer is open to both you guys (and anyone else so inclined). If either of you happen to be in the New Haven area anytime soon feel free to PM me. There are a few great watering holes in and around Yale that I would love to share.

Be well and good luck.

[Othelo]

And now shes calling me...even though she needed space...and we're having really good long conversations....wtf is going on here

How did I know.

[Equilibrium]

So last night we talked for about 4 hours on the phone like we used to and then we went to sleep.

M, sedai, and anyone else, whats your take on this?

We agree on space and then she calls me and we talk alot..

[thmilin]

yeaaah, i agree with othello.

i'm going to say this - i'm happy for you, if THIS is what you want. i'm not happy at what i know could happen, but if you are happy in this situation, then behappy, and i don't fault you that.

but it's like watching someone who's an alcoholic think about turning teetotaler. you encourage them, and they ask your advice, then they decide to keep on with it.

bad juju, from our end, friend, in watching this as observers. but you are in it, and must do what your gut tells you. if your gut tells you it is WORTH the perpetual confusion (even *AFTER* having "cleared things up) - then you go right on ahead and enjoy the confusion and doubt with the kisses, sex, and conversations.

i think it's your ages. or her age. she just hasn't had enough relationships, doesn't know or appreciate independence. and it doesn't seem like you do either.

seems like you both want something so badly even if it's not being handled right or will hurt you later, that you're both willing to fumble through it and damn the consequences (which may include lying to yourselves and each other).

then again,she could just really love you and want you and be a mental and emotionalmess and need some time to figure herself out but she just won't do that, she just wants to jump right in there and "be happy."

like chris described, build a house on sand. yes the house is ****ing beautiful. for now.

i do hope, however, that i am completely wrong and you are completely right and that it all works out. that is definitely preferred.

i am proud of you that asked her: ""I know you like to avoid thinking about it, but you must if you want to not hurt me""

andkept making her address it. but i am concerned by her own behaviors. do you want to spend your relationship having to guide, warn, encourage, and pressure her like this?

i'd have been pissed fromt he getgo and not wasted my time. so deep down a part of you may actually prefer relationships that way. always questioning, always forcing each other to haev an intense toxic dance may just be what you crave. i've seen it. some people don't know how to just be chill and easy, they end up making drama if there's none to startwith, just to have to work through it. life seems more passionate and powerful that way.

don't mean to offend with these statements, just saying,the way our hearts and brains work can make us do some weird sh|t, and put up with weird sh|t. if you like dealing with the weird sh|t, then go ahead.

If I confront and discuss "space" with a person and someone says to me "obviously - and i can't handle long distance right now" whenit's a measley couple of weeks, and despite her insistence about needing space she's texting and chasing you ...

to me, that's total contradiction and a mindf*ck and not something i've got the patience to play with.

if you both agree on space, you can only be responsible for your own actions. a man of strength and honor - a person of strength and honor- sticks to their word. they do exactly what they say they will, mean exactly what they say, and therefore don't say anything to anyone else unless they absolutely mean it.

i don't see her doing that, and as a result, i don't see you doing it either. you gotta take a stand in the end,and allowing your own self to change directions constantly based on her compass, when her compassis broken, is going to get BOTH of you nowhere.

[Sedai]

So last night we talked for about 4 hours on the phone like we used to and then we went to sleep.

M, sedai, and anyone else, whats your take on this?

We agree on space and then she calls me and we talk alot..

3 options:

1- Just let it flow, distance yourselves from the relationship **** for a WHILE, and just do friendly things, and talk about friendly things.

2 - Stop talking for a while. Don't sit there and say 'I shall never interact with you again", because, that never works. I have tried it. I mean, Michelle totally mauled me, and herself for that matter, and I have tried to be a hard ass and tell her I can never talk to her again and she doesn't deserve my friendship. Meanwhile, we have plans tomorrow night. Still, we have all but stopped calling and emailing at this point, because we need time to gain new personal perspective.

3- Obtain an Armalite AR-10 carbine gas powered semi-automatic assault weapon, and pump round after round into all involved. Probably not the best choice, but would give me something interesting to watch on the news tonight.

Really, though. Space is clearly needed. As much as I hate giving and needing it myself, it HAS helped.

[Sleezy]

3- Obtain an Armalite AR-10 carbine gas powered semi-automatic assault weapon, and pump round after round into all involved.

The first rule of the relationship is... there is no relationship.

;)

[Godsend]

Just kill her. It works better.

Then get to a stripclub.

[shirble]

Just kill her. It works better.

Then get to a stripclub.

*ruffles hair*

[Equilibrium]

A few hours ago she sent me a very provacative picture to my phone of herself. along with very flirtatious texts.


I'm a bit confused, is it possible she just lusts after me? Her Ex and her are not talking, I can't help but feel like maybe he's going the patience route and therefore hes going to win out with her in the end. But I don't know what to say to her "Um, look you asked for space, so now I'm going to give it yo yuou...don't call me anymore"

We were in this fight for like the past 1.5 weeks, finally things are smooth between us, I'm afraid if I reintroduce myself as unhappy with something, shes's going to think "wow nothing makes this guy happy-im out"

Is it possible for me to just "chill out and stop thinking so much" right now? As in just let her call and text..as long as we don't see each other?

[7thson]

I hope you walk away from all of this with your wits about you. I know it is tough (I have been there), but you need to let go man. Just my advice...wish you the best.

[Othelo]

OK, what I am about to say is going to be harsh but it must be said.

The chorus of voices here have said almost exactly the same thing, move along, let her go, move on. Being in the situation, as thmilin said, is much different than being an observer as the rest of us are, there is sense made in both camps. But you continue to torture yourself with her presence in your life. You may not want to hear this but letting her go is probably the best thing for both of you at the moment.

If there is a choice between losing your sanity and losing her, she looses, hands down. Sorry but self preservation alone should prevent you from exposing yourself to this pain. Either she is playing you and your feelings, or she is playing herself by manipulating your feelings to make her feel better about being alone. She may, in fact be genuinely confused, of this I have no doubt, but why pull away from someone who you really love and who really loves you? We are all, to some degree immature. We all want things too difficult to find alone, in the guise of someone else.

But the bottom line is this, the push and pull, the back and forth has increased since you have forced her to come to terms with a distancing. You have to ask yourself why, if she loves you, is she only willing to show it under these circumstances. And if you ask us, you need to consider the very real possibility that on some unconscious level she is playing you, and herself. A break does not mean a free pass to confuse, dismay and cling tighter. It means a break. The provocative nature of her messages seems very odd to me, like she is using her sexual appeal to rope you in, and that is hardly fair, or right.

[gummo]

Hey...Gummo getting all the credit for my philosophy! Thimilin, I wrote all that, not the gumster!


I give you all my credit ;)




I think I've said all I can say about this situation, Eq. Except, I know it's hard to let go of someone, but it is possible. It can be done, and you can feel better. But you do need to take care of yourself, love yourself.

Being as emotionally vulnerable as you, I have been in similar situations. But understanding myself - my needs, my emotional self, and learning to care for myself and love myself is where I am at now. It takes awhile to get there, and you suffer lots of heartache on the way, but even the journey is worth while. And when you get to a place of contentment, it's the experience and the wisdom that is carried with you...not regrets. You feel like a better person for understanding yourself. That is the human experience. To love and understand yourself -

You will get to a good place Eq, learn to listen to yourself, trust yourself, learn from your mistakes, and share your experiences with others.

[Othelo]

ditto...

[Equilibrium]

I'm a bit busy with finals. The situation has cooled down a bit. She and I talk once a day, at the very end and we meet for coffee every 3 days. I'd like to elaborate more on what I think is going on, but I feel as though I should wait until she leaves in 4 days before I mull this over. We never bring up break because she gets all mad if I begin to I asked her about the space and why she wasn't letting me give it to her, her answer was "I didn't want total space, just like 62% space. If I knew that we would basically stop talking to each other then I would never have asked for the space. I just thought space was like chilling out, calling each other often, not seeing each other everday for hours like we used, and limiting the intimacy."

Told her the space wasn't just for her, its for both of us and I enjoy that 'total' space every now and then. She replied with "well, we'll have that during break but for now lets not overdo it"

Ahh. Anyways..As soon as this is all resolved I'm going to make a post dedicated to everyone who helped me and pour my heart out about how much I love this place, as opposed to loving a girl (whose love back for me is questionable).

[shirble]

Hah, sorry, I've been ridiculously busy with finals and never ended up emailing you back with regards to that msn convo. Oops! Sorry that I was a bit useless for all of this, but I really do hope that things are properly cooling down.

But yes, I really apologise for not helping out at all. It does look like everyone else gave out insanely good advice, though :)

[gummo]

here's to finals!!!!! :frustrated: I have an exam on Wednesday and haven't bothered studying yet... :rolleyes:

[Othelo]

Good luck to both of you!

[thmilin]

mwaahahahah, i stopped having to deal with finals ages ago.

yes, i rub that in.

[Othelo]

mwaahahahah, i stopped having to deal with finals ages ago.

yes, i rub that in.

Yeah been about ten years for me too, finals were the easy part, getting to class was hard. :)

[thmilin]

this was 5 years ago for me. i got to class just fine, the problem was staying awake. i literally fell asleep in small classes of no more than 20.

hee ...

[Equilibrium]

Everything was going SO well. Until finally, today we got into a huge fight she slung some nasty accusations at me like calling me a liar....and then she said in a text "I can't do this anymore, go find other girls which im sure there are alot who want you, goodbye."

Hasn't responded to texts or calls since then.

Ah the amount of pain is more than just unbearable.

[Sedai]

Time to get away from her for a while, Eq. I had to do it pretty recently, and it sucks, pretty much every second of every day. It's also helping, though...

[thmilin]

anger is the best medicine. it generally makes you harm each other visibly enough to GET what you knew you had to do but were too stubborn to do.

both of you. now you'll both go be angry at each other, think on the accusations you each made, and give it some space.

it sounds like you're less angry and more surprised. but you might want to look at the meaning behind her accusations and figure out a) why she'd say things if they weren't true or b) why she is feeling nasty about you enough to say those nasty things.

as in, she may not be capable of having a nice healthy relationsihp with you - as i've gone over and over, she may be a mess and will flip between normal and destructive, make drama, and blame others for her drama.

i have known, in particular, one woman who i thought was the sweetest goddess, loved her like a true mother (my first was abusive) only to discover 1.5 years in that she was the most f*cked up person i know when she turned on me and said a gazillion evil untrue things about my actions and hers.

it took that conversation to make me realize she was not a sweet goddess, she was in fact toxic and out of her mind, and that it was healthiest and safestfor us to no longer know each other.

my life has improved 200% since i made that decision.

[Equilibrium]

Dear MoFo,

I am an idiot.

Wow this girl is bad news. Too bad I'm in love with her.

She leaves today for California. Last night she begged and begged me to come over...I was thinking it would be like it used to be. A nice session of cuddling and watching a movie. Instead we remained pleutonic the entire time, went to starbucks hung out at her room, whatever. I ask her if she wanted me to leave at around 9:35 and she said "NO, please don't leave I'm not at all tired so I can be up a while"

So I stick around and we are talking and chit chatting and everything is great until at around 10 she says "You should leave at 10:30pm I'm getting really tired and my flight is tomorrow at 3pm so I need to pack and stuff"

Ok. So I leave, and immediatly she sents me a text message "Are you mad? you were acting kind of funny"

Whatever i blow off the txt message and act normal, she calls me at around 11 pm, and we say our goodnights to each other and she tells me she cant wait to see me before her flight leaves. She asked if I wanted to do breakfast with her, alone, and I said sure.

Well today roles around, I dont hear from here until about 10am and its just a few texts here and there, then silence until noon. So I call. No pickup. She calls back 20 minutes later, "you called?" she demures.

So I ask her if she still wanted to meet up..

"I want to but i don't know if I'm going to be able to, my flight leaves in 3 hours and I still havent packed"

me: "Fine, if you change your mind i'll be home"

And then she gave me some serious attitude.."fine, bye" click.

What the....

Its now 1:30, and I'm pretty sure she isn't going to call or anything, this was the last opportunity to kiss her and to say goodbyw to her. I needed this, I needed to tell myself that it was over and that I wanted that kiss at that airport one. So that I could walk away having closed the chapter of such a great girl in a proper way. But now, she's going to go back home, her last impression of us, not a good one.

Belittled, ridiculed, and completely torn, Yours truely,
Eq

[Sedai]

Yeah... I chilled with my Ex last night. It had been a while. We had fun, for the most part. The time apart has helped. Still, she still seems very lost, and we had to avoid certain subjects, so as not to send the evening into a tailspin. It is quite clear that she needs to get through all this stuff on her own. I have sacrificed much for her, I hope she finds...something.

It was good to see her again, though. I miss her. :(

[Equilibrium]

Just got off the phone with an old ex-girlfriend, the very first one actually.

She told me to send this text to this girl "Don't contact me anymore, I'm stepping away from whatever the hell you want to call this. Take care of yourself."

I'm afraid this will end everything though. Close the doors to everything. But the ex said its the only way to make an active and aggressive approach to this.

[Sedai]

I tried that. Clearly, it didn't last. I mean, I got downright mean at one point, and she just sat there saying, "Yup, I deserve it, you are a better person than i am etc. etc."

What do you say to that? My situation is quite different tho...

[shirble]

The girl clearly has other things she has to deal with before she could ever be in a proper relationship with you, she doesn't know if she wants you, she doesn't treat you well, she consciously sends you mixed signals in order to keep you around while at arms length until she gets bored or lonely.

She isn't willing to even talk about relationships with you or about how to fix things. She doesn't seem to be willing to make up her mind.

I can understand wanting to be with her because there is a slight chance things will be as good as they had been, but I honestly think all signs point to her not wanting to change anything.

I agree with the ex, I think it's a good idea for you to be the one to end things. You seriously, seriously deserve better than the **** she is putting you through.

[Othelo]

Just got off the phone with an old ex-girlfriend, the very first one actually.

She told me to send this text to this girl "Don't contact me anymore, I'm stepping away from whatever the hell you want to call this. Take care of yourself."

I'm afraid this will end everything though. Close the doors to everything. But the ex said its the only way to make an active and aggressive approach to this.

Isn't it funny how an ex can (unfortunately, usually after the relationship ends) know exactly what you need and what was good for you. The irony astounds me, often.

There is only one person I have dated that I have had little or no contact with since breaking up with them. I have always had female friends, some beginning with attraction, others just platonic, but I always find myself being tugged into a lifelong friendship with a woman rather than a man, not really pertinent, but interesting.

I don't think the message needs to be that terse, but I do agree that you should be the one to formally move on. I remember a relationship I had in college she was this beautiful blonde (an exception for me) athletic young woman from upstate New York (you may be able to see where this is going, remember it was the early 90's before couples of mixed ancestry were widely accepted) we both brought a lot of baggage into the relationship, and the fact that her father (who I later found out was abusive) not approving of me didn't help. We did the very same dance you and yours did, and it nearly killed me. It was the very first real and serious relationship for me besides one other that lasted only a short while, we had amazing sex, shared so much music and book-wise (both English majors) and had the most heated arguments I have ever had with anyone save my current partner.

The relationship was very intense, all my relationships are. And I rarely close the door to friendship afterwards (something that is haunting me currently with the one I mentioned briefly before the blonde). But in this case, I have no need to contact her, we were better off as friends who think of each other occasionally than casual acquaintances. I got one letter from her about 15 years ago to which I never replied, I was just done.

You can't put love in a box. Can't contain it, it doesn't work that way. Sometimes as in this case, distance and time will not heal, but it will transform the experience into a learning one. Have faith (and I never use that word lightly) in the fact that you did the right thing and saved your heart in the process, even if it is broken, it can heal over time.

[Equilibrium]

Well. Some time has elapsed since I last visted this forum for advice on this subject.

December 6th was the last time we had a conversation over the phone. It was when she was at the airport.


Since then we have texted each other everyday, but very sparingly.

We said goodnight to each other, over texts, every night.

Then last night happened.

I called, she picked up and said she needed to call me right back.

She never did.

I sent her a goodnight and she sent one back.

Today things fell through and we text fought and at the end we both came to the conclusion that we should just move on since we are continously hurting each other. She admitted that she still has feelings for me but is not sure if she loves me or not. I said, lets move on.

She said, "Fine. x0x0"

And that was that.

You would think that I would just walk away and move on at this point, but nay my friends. I'm an idiot.

I couldn't stand the thought of her moving on. So I wanted to rectify the situation. I sent her this email:

"This is the very first way you contacted me. So I find this to be an appropriate way to contact you at the moment.


I wanted to give you a letter I know you would have liked before you left, but I couldn't since you didn't have time before the airport. I brought it with me , not knowing why. I guess I just wanted it to reach high altitude whether on your flight or mind. I know, I have a fantastical mind. It was a good letter, I'll still send it to you if you like. But in any case, hokay..

I didn't think it would come to this. But we are in a toxic dance and I feel like your feelings for me wane as time goes by and with each pointless fight. I feel as though, the less we talk the less you'll think of me. Its a fine line between giving you space and ignoring you. You asked for the space, so that is why I don't call, I waited for you to feel like you wanted to talk.I'm a little high strung about the ordeal, and I know your mixed emotions are not exactly your cup of tea. But its hard to think of you not looking at me the way that you used to. Its hard not knowing how you feel, or having to guess how you feel. This was so easy before, you always let me know exactly how you feel. After thanksgiving things changed, and they continue to change, which is to be expected. But I didn't think it would be such that I was never "in the know." Essentially what it comes down to is not wanting the way you view me to be supluncted by our arguements, all of which are about pretty much the same thing.

I love it when you send me cute texts, I love it when its about something we've done in the past, even if its SO stupid.

I suppose that what we agreed on, even though it sucks, is a good thing to do. I'm tired of being an accomplice to how bad you feel. You once said to me, "It hurts to love you." I can't let you hurt. I'll walk away having spent some redick times with you that I'll never forget, while at the same time making this easier for you.

Who knows, maybe when you get back from the most amazing place on earth, you'll feel differently about me. Maybe you'll have sorted out your feelings, and the time apart between us will give us a chance of actually having something. Maybe you'll come back and realize I was the biggest mistake you ever made. Maybe you think that now. Maybe being just friends is a task that may actually work when you come back. I don't know and I don't think you do either.

I hope that you find whatever it is you are looking for. And I still hope that maybe what you're looking for is a distance of only .0005cm between your lips and mine with a few sprinkles of "leeetle keeeses" and some "beeg hugs". Maybe I'm crazy and blind, but I do believe you already knew that.

Don't be afraid to let a little emotion slip my way every now and then, we're human.I hope you enjoy the rest of your stay home. Keep me in your thoughts when it doesn't hurt, I'll keep you in mine.

Goodbyes only last until the next time we meet."


The purpose of that letter is to let her know that I don't want to close the door forever.


She read it, because the email reciept said she did. She did not respond, and I don't really expect her to.

But I wonder if I've done the right thing. Or if shes just going to move on.

It hurts. I'm hurt, I know she's hurt. But I'm afraid she'll move on. Thats my plan too, to move on. But a part of me wants her the way I had her.

[Equilibrium]

I can't exactly say I wasn't warned, by you, by my close friends, by her even. But I do believe things have come to a complete death.

She came back from california, we saw each other twice-both times we were intimate and things were generally the same as they were before.

Last night we got into a fight on the phone, in which i dragged it out of her that she has been secretly cutting her emotions for me, and that she has days when she really cares about me in a positive attitude, and other days when she feels like there's no point in caring about me.

One then led to another and we fought, she said I was demanding and that she just now realized that she has to cut her emotions for me like she has been trying to do. I said fine and that I love her, she said she loved me too.

That was last night.

As if to punish me somehow, God woke up me up this morning at 6 am...i never wake up that early..i usually wake up at 11:30 am..a five hour difference. Thats five more hours of me thinking about her.

God I'm such a fool, such a sap, I should have seen this coming. I cannot, I still cannot let go of all the things we did and said to each other.

I want to move on, but I know I'll be doing it for the wrong reasons..I know i'll want to move on only because "its the only way you can get her to want you" and not because I actually need to get over her for my own sanity.


The thought of her actively trying and working towards falling out of love with me is so painful it stops me from doing it. I'm so ****ed up in the head right now. I think if I want to I can just call her up and apologize for the fight and tell her I want to start over again, and that she would probably would, but I'm afraid things will fall right back down where they used to be. On the other hand she might not even answer because she really is done. From the way things went last night and our closing remarks it sounded pretty much over with, minus the fact that we both still love each other.

I want to hang on to the belief that she won't succeed in falling out of love with me, that she'll realize that she wants things to be the same way when we first met and she'll call me up and start things anew and fresh. But my experience tells me better, tells me I'll dwell on this for a few months..hoping to hear from her...and one day I'll wake up not remembering that I want to hear from her.

I just don't want that. I dont want this to be over, and I keep feeling like..if I hadn't said anything or if I just kept my cool or if..or if or if that she wouldn't have "realized" that she wanted to loosen up her feelings for me.

I wake up this morning, shes checked my myspace profile twice already. And her msn away message reads: "catch the next one"

**** me.

[Equilibrium]

oh and also..

Every time the phone rings or someone sends me a text..its like I'm hoping its her.

Its going to be so hard getting over this one.

I keep thinking maybe I should call her and say..can we meet up one last time..its been a week since i last saw you and i just want to see you again and talk about this in person before we let this thing die.

I'm this close to doing it..to calling her..or just texting her "this is really stupid, why cant we just be friends'

[gummo]

It sounds almost as if you are becoming obsessed with this girl. I would lose contact with her right away before the obsession gets worse. Get some counselling. She is so totally leading you on; it's not cute in the slightest. She is making you sick, mentally and I only imagine physically.

[Kitsune Castle]

In my experience, of dealing with a relationship thats run its course, it's better to just leave it be. Equilibrium, to be honest man your to good for her. Its not worth hurting yourself or making the situation worse. I had the same exact problem and in a way I see myself when I glance at your predicament. Lets just say I continued to torment myself, and things got worse oh so much worse. To make a long story short my sister got in a fight with my ex girlfriend, and thats how it ended. Such a bittersweet ending.

Don't let things get worse. End it with a calm note. Think about it as getting older and getting over it. Plus there is the other fish in the sea factor

[thmilin]

so i wrote you private messages so you know how i feel ... and you say you saw all our warnings.

when you are fixed on something, and the signs are bad, and you keep chasing it ... it'll just end badly. so even if you send her a text or an email or a phone call - yes, it'll keep going this route again.

it is NOT going to get better. that's what i believe. i could always be wrong, but while you may want her back the way it used to be ....

it's as useless as wanting to be 6 years old again and carefree.

it is never going to happen the way you want it to, not in this lifetime. no amount of self hating, agonizing, sleeplessness, prayer, advise seeking, counselling, drinking, dancing, self deceit, etc ...

... is ever going to change that fact.

[Equilibrium]

Thmlin, I beg to differ.

Things are..back to the way they were.

Don't get me wrong, this is still going to end in tears for everyone involved.