Uncut lists the 100 greatest debut albums of all time!

[Piddzilla]

Long ago I started a thread here based on the magazine Mojo's list of the 100 greatest rock stars of all time. Another british music and film magazine, Uncut, recently listed the 100 greatest debut albums of all time. Since the Mojo list caused some "sparkling debates" around here ( ;D ) I thought we'd give it a go one more time. What do you say??

The list:

100. The Arcade Fire - Funeral
99. Suede - Suede
98. Foo Fighters - Foo Fighters
97. Vashti Bunyan - Just Another Diamond Day
96. PJ Harvey - Dry
95. The White Stripes - The White Stripes
94. Mercury Rev - Yerself Is Steam
93. The Birthday Party - Prayers On Fire
92. Spiritualized - Lazer Guided Melodies
91. Throwing Muses - Throwing Muses
90. Franz Ferdinand - Franz Ferdinand
89. Elastica - Elastica
88. Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers - Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers
87. Dr Feelgood - Down By The Jetty
86. The Undertones - The Undertones
85. Elvis Presley - Elvis Presley
84. Tricky - Maxinquaye
83. Little Feat - Little Feat
82. The Pop Group - Y
81. Pearl Jam - Ten
80. Cheap Trick - Cheap Trick
79. Jackson Browne - Jackson Browne
78. The Libertines - Up The Bracket
77. Eminem - The Slim Shady LP
76. Guns N' Roses - Appetite For Destruction
75. The LA's - The LA's
74. Kate Bush - The Kick Inside
73. Pavement - Slanted And Enchanted
72. The Strokes - Is This It
71. Scritti Politti - Songs To Remember
70. Judee Sill - Judee Sill
69. Echo & The Bunnymen - Crocodiles
68. Buzzcocks - Another Music In A Different Kitchen
67. Suicide - Suicide
66. Beastie Boys - Licensed To Ill
65. Dexys Midnight Runners - Searching For The Young Soul Rebels
64. Neu! - Neu!
63. Pere Ubu - The Modern Dance
62. The Associates - The Affectionate Punch
61. Leonard Cohen - The Songs Of Leonard Cohen
60. Richard Hell & The Voidoids - Blank Generation
59. U2 - Boy
58. Tim Hardin - Tim Hardin 1
57. Pixies - Come On Pilgrim
56. Bob Dylan - Bob Dylan
55. Ian Dury - New Boots & Panties!!
54. Randy Newman - Randy Newman
53. De La Soul - 3 Feet High & Rising
52. ABC - The Lexicon Of Love
51. Moby Grape - Moby Grape

50. The Jesus & Mary Chain - Psychocandy
49. Talking Heads - 77
48. Pretenders - Pretenders
47. NWA - Straight Outta Compton
46. The Slits - Cut
45. Jeff Buckley - Grace
44. Orange Juice - You Can't Hide Your Love Forever
43. Siouxsie & The Banshees - The Scream
42. The Modern Lovers - The Modern Lovers
41. Public Enemy - Yo! Bum Rush The Show
40. Wire - Pink Flag
39. Bruce Springsteen - Greetings From Asbury Park, NJ
38. Captain Beefheart - Safe As Milk
37. Magazine - Real Life
36. Arctic Monkeys - Whatever People Say I Am...
35. Black Sabbath - Black Sabbath
34. Steely Dan - Can't Buy A Thrill
33. Gang Of 4 - Entertainment!
32. MC5 - Kick Out The Jams
31. Elvis Costello - My Aim Is True
30. Oasis - Definitely Maybe
29. Nick Drake - 5 Leaves Left
28. The Doors - The Doors
27. My Bloody Valentine - Isn't Anything
26. Buffalo Springfield - Buffalo Springfield
25. The Mothers Of Invention - Freak Out!
24. Big Star - #1 Record
23. The Flying Burrito Brothers - The Gilded Palace Of Sin
22. R.E.M. - Murmur
21. The Smiths - The Smiths
20. The Specials - The Specials
19. The Sex Pistols - Never Mind The Bollocks...
18. Patti Smith - Horses
17. The Beatles - Please Please Me
16. New York Dolls - New York Dolls
15. The Rolling Stones - The Rolling Stones
14. Pink Floyd - The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn
13. The Byrds - Mr Tambourine Man
12. Ramones - Ramones
11. The Who - My Generation
10. The Stooges - The Stooges
9. Roxy Music - Roxy Music
8. Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures
7. Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin
6. The Clash - The Clash
5. The Band - Music From Big Pink
4. The Stone Roses - The Stone Roses
3. The Jimi Hendrix Experience - Are You Experienced
2. Televsion - Marquee Moon
1. The Velvet Underground & Nico - The Velvet Underground & Nico


There's lots in there that I haven't even heard. I also sense some kind of trend. There's lots of bands from certain eras and bands that meant a lot to the bands of those eras, if you know what I mean. So what do you think? Which gems do you miss? Remember, it's DEBUT albums - not just albums....

[NewDawnFades]

Ah,wonderful list -- so many great bands! Some of my favorites include: The Stooges, Joy Division, Bob Dylan, Television,Velvet Underground and Nick Drake.

[Strummer521]

I can't think of anything that is missing offhand. However, why do these magazines have such an obsession with Oasis? I don't know anyone who's particularly impressed by them.

[Piddzilla]

Oasis made one great album that made an enormous impact on (mostly) the British music scene for some years. That's their debut album and it's as in your face as, for instance, Never Mind the Bollocks... (to which it owns a great deal), and that's why it's on the list, I suppose.

[Piddzilla]

A few albums that you might expect on the list:

Mary J. Blige - "What's the 411?"
Wu-Tang Clan - "Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)"
Kanye West - "The College Dropout"
Missy Elliott - "Supa Dupa Fly"
Lauryn Hill - "The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill"
Madonna - "Madonna"
Metallica - "Kill 'Em All"
Rage Against the Machine - "Rage Against the Machine"

[Tacitus]

Heh, it's almost a list that I would make (I'd demote the first three, natch). ;)

It's not often that you see My Bloody Valentine, Magazine, Pere Ubu, Dexys, The Undertones, Gang Of Four, Dr Feelgood, The Birthday Party, Tricky, Orange Juice etc on lists of any sort thesedays. About bloody time.

Personal faves - Three Feet High & Rising, New Boots & Panties, Unknown Pleasures, Psychocandy, Murmer, Come On Pilgrim, Suede and, of course, one of my top three albums of any sort - The Stone Roses.

Albums that I'd add -

New Order - Movement
The Pogues - Red Roses For Me
The Teardrop Explodes - Kilimanjaro
Leftfield - Leftfield
Tindersticks - Tindersticks
The Radiators From Space - TV Tube Heart

The above might be a wee bit self-indulgent but a list that doesn't include Van Morrisson's Astral Weeks while making space for Pearl Jam, Franz Bloody Ferdinind, U2 and Oasis needs it's head examined... ;)

[Piddzilla]

Even though I dug Pearl Jam enormously "back in the days" I can't really see why that album is on there. Franz Ferdinand I have never liked. At all.

[Travis Bickle]

My favourites - Can't Buy a Thrill, Three Feet High and Rising, The Velvet Underground and Nico, Are you Experienced?, Grace and Unknown Pleasures.

[Lance McCool]

Given the nature of the magazine and the list, I'm surprised they left out I Should Coco.

Easily the best Supergrass album, and it's one of my absolute favorites.

[Tacitus]

Even though I dug Pearl Jam enormously "back in the days" I can't really see why that album is on there. Franz Ferdinand I have never liked. At all.

I get the feeling that FF are one trick ponies. Take Me Out was a jumpy little single but nothing else of theirs has done anything for me. Another retro New Wave band without an ounce of what made, say, Magazine or The Teardrops great.

As for Pearl Jam...

I once fell asleep in front of them at Slane when they were touring with Ten (I began to nod off during one of Van's jazzy nonsense sets that he toured with in the mid 90s but had enough about me to get through Neil Young's wonderful couple of hours later on) which was surprising as this was at the time when I was ingesting enough speed to make elephants do back flips.

We then missed our bus back to Belfast and had to sleep in a hedge... :rolleyes:

[adidasss]

A few albums that you might expect on the list:


Lauryn Hill - "The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill"

Rage Against the Machine - "Rage Against the Machine"
definitely...

[adidasss]

I get the feeling that FF are one trick ponies. Take Me Out was a jumpy little single but nothing else of theirs has done anything for me. Another retro New Wave band without an ounce of what made, say, Magazine or The Teardrops great.


that's because you're a geezer....;)
they rock...:)

[Strummer521]

but a list that doesn't include Van Morrisson's Astral Weeks while making space for Pearl Jam, Franz Bloody Ferdinind, U2 and Oasis needs it's head examined... ;)

Brilliant as Astral Weeks is, Van's debut was Blowin' Your Mind! which makes AW inelligible. If this was simply a top 100 list however, the exclusion of that album would be a capital crime.

[Tacitus]

Brilliant as Astral Weeks is, Van's debut was Blowin' Your Mind! which makes AW inelligible. If this was simply a top 100 list however, the exclusion of that album would be a capital crime.

That's a moot point. Blowin' Your Mind seems only to have surfaced again within the last few years - I've had all the songs for ages on an earlier album called The Bang Masters - as they were the result of sessions (the culmination of which was the release of Brown Eyed Girl as a single) released without Van's consent, not really a coherant album, and he always considered Astral Weeks to be his solo debut.

Always, that is, until recently when the crusty old bugger seems to have realised that there are some cracking songs to be found there, most notably for me, TB Sheets. As Van's taking an R&B/Blues direction thesedays it's not surprising he's decided to finally embrace the album.

So is Van's debut a disparate collection of half-realised tracks which has come to prominance again in the CD age or the poetic Astral Weeks, recorded and mixed by the people Van wanted and trusted?

Personally I'd put Blowin' Your Mind in the same bracket as the grainy recordings of The Beatles in Hamburg, chronologically the first stuff recorded but not, I suspect, the first they intended to release.

I'm a crusty old bugger too though. :)

On a side note, I was hoking through my CDs the other day when I came across The Lost Tapes, proporting to be the first recordings by Neil Young. I sound more like the reedy-voiced legend than the guy on the record (quite dull 60s folk) but an interesting curio nonetheless. ;)

[Strummer521]

I figured you'd say something to that effect Tac, and I'm not sure I can dispute it on anything other than a technical level.

[Piddzilla]

The more I come to think of it the more I realize what an outrage (hi hi) it is that Rage Against the Machine isn't on the list. That album blew me and most kids away when it was released, and never before and never after has any band managed to mix rock/metal and rap as succesfully as them. All the rap metal and nu metal acts that followed got it all wrong, it wasn't about cock rock or simply about acknowledging the fact that both metal and rap have/can have a rebellious attitude. Rage Against the Machine were hardcore in a litteral sense. The were uncompromising and confrontational. And they rocked. It was Zeppelin, Funkadelic, Clash and Public Enemy at the same time. They should definitely be on the top 50.

[Tacitus]

The more I come to think of it the more I realize what an outrage (hi hi) it is that Rage Against the Machine isn't on the list. That album blew me and most kids away when it was released, and never before and never after has any band managed to mix rock/metal and rap as succesfully as them.

Sorry Pete, I didn't like them. :)

That might have something to do with the hoards of Indie Kids knocking over everything in their path (including my pint), Godzilla-like, whenever Killing In The Name Of got played in a club. I think I was a year or so too old for them.

I've just thought of Bjork's Debut as a glaring omission - unless they're counting her output with The Sugarcubes (and a couple of jazz/folk albums released when she was a kid). That would explain Van too - Blowin' Your Mind or not, his first records were with Them, but the guys at Uncut have shot themselves in the foot on that premise as Tricky started off in the wonderful Massive Attack.

Come to think of it, I'd definately include Massive Attack's Blue Lines on my list. ;)

[Piddzilla]

Another one, at least for me: Weezer - "Weezer". It's kind of the same thing as with Rage. This was the geek pop blueprint but no other band managed to execute it and land on the right side of the cheese border like they did. Weezer were geeks that listened to heavy metal and 60's pop and wrote lyrics about .. being a geek who listens to heavy metal and 60's pop. Sort of. I loved it. Still do.

[Purandara88]

I think I might include Murmur on my list, but that's about it. That reads like a list of popular mainstream releases that would be acceptable to the sort of dorks who think Pavement represents the apex of rock 'n roll.

You know, ugly nerds who work at crappy record shops.

[linespalsy]

Is Pavement mainstream (I honestly don't know, the first time I heard of them was here)?

I dunno, I like B'day Party but Prayers is a bit mixed for me to consider. Same story with the Talking Heads' debut (they didn't get great until after the second album).

A glaring omission is the Butthole Surfers' 'Psychic, Powerless, Another Man's Sac...'

On the other hand, glad to see Suicide on there, and The Modern Dance is fresh.

Pretty sure Compton wasn't NWA's debut.

[Purandara88]

Is Pavement mainstream (I honestly don't know, the first time I heard of them was here)?



They're certainly not 'underground' (though whether a true 'underground' can even exist in the internet era is open to question).

The point is more that the list reads like a hipster's guide to major label music, sort of a calculated attempt to triangulate between a list acceptable to indie nerds and one that will move magazines when a normal person picks it up.

[adidasss]

and indie nerds are a lower life form than metal nerds ?

[Piddzilla]

They're certainly not 'underground' (though whether a true 'underground' can even exist in the internet era is open to question).

The point is more that the list reads like a hipster's guide to major label music, sort of a calculated attempt to triangulate between a list acceptable to indie nerds and one that will move magazines when a normal person picks it up.

How is it a guide to major label music? "The Velvet Underground & Nico" was totally ignored by the critics and the majority of the public when it was released. Some of the usually pretty all-covering critics didn't even bother to review it. What the list is is a guide to music that the people of Uncut considers to be groundbreaking. There's both major label releases and independent label releases on the list, and my guess is that the independent releases are in majority. These albums had some form of impact on some form of music scene and even if you despise that scene, you can't deny it. There are no black metal debut albums on there because, firstly, Uncut is a not a metal magazine, but possibly also because no black metal band has yet produced an album that has had the same impact as bands like those on the list. That would kind of go against the whole agenda of black metal since I suspect that those bands dread the whole concept of popularity, unless it's among their peers. There are bands that have had great impact on the extreme metal scene, I'm sure (I guess that would be bands like Emperor, Mayhem, Deicide, Immortal.. well, you know a lot more about them than I do), but that would have to be a list of its own.

About Pavement (yes, I am a fan). Have you heard "Slanted and Enchanted"? There's not one song on the album that a major radio channel would play and still there are beautiful songs with some pretty good lyrics on there (you have to like melodies to appreciate it, I guess). And, like it or not, it's certainly not a mainstream realese, neither technically nor in any other form.

Pretty sure Compton wasn't NWA's debut.

Yeah, there's actually a couple of more mistakes like that. I think My Bloody Valentine had made one album before "Isn't Anything" and I'm also pretty sure Eminem made one before "The Slim Shady LP".

[Purandara88]

and indie nerds are a lower life form than metal nerds ?

In that the former valorize a musical form with no creative value, yes.

[Purandara88]

How is it a guide to major label music? "The Velvet Underground & Nico" was totally ignored by the critics and the majority of the public when it was released.

It was released by an imprint of MGM!!! How can it NOT be a 'major label' release?

Moreover, it's reception in 1967 aside, punk-leaning and later indie critics have been fellating the band's entire catalog for well-nigh on 30 years now, they sit squarely in the contemporary mainstream.

What the list is is a guide to music that the people of Uncut considers to be groundbreaking.

Yeah, and the point is that Uncut wouldn't know 'groundbreaking' if it bit them on the tiny dicks they make these lists to overcome. Mainstream rock music has never had a groundbreaking idea in all its long and storied history.

There's both major label releases and independent label releases on the list, and my guess is that the independent releases are in majority.

There aren't more than 5 'independent' releases in the top 50, and several of these are 'independent' in the way that Miramax is an 'independent' film company.

These albums had some form of impact on some form of music scene and even if you despise that scene, you can't deny it.

Who cares if they had an impact on an uncreative scene? Derivative product is derivative product, regardless of its impact on other, derivative product. There are maybe four or five releases on the whole damn list that transcend mere entertainment (The Doors, Black Sabbath, Murmur, and, if you're exceptionally charitable Isn't Anything and perhaps Piper at the Gates of Dawn. Maybe, maybe, MAYBE Captain Beefheart if novelty for its own sake is your thing. The rest? Disposable crap - more plastic for the landfill.

There are no black metal debut albums on there because, firstly, Uncut is a not a metal magazine, but possibly also because no black metal band has yet produced an album that has had the same impact as bands like those on the list.

Creatively, any Burzum album is more significant than the entire gaggle of throwaway pop bands on that list.

But seriously, you don't even have to go for metal (or even, necessarily, off of the major labels) to find far more artistically important releases then this crap:

Where's Brian Eno? In the Court of the Crimson King? Maeror Tri? Kraftwerk? Dead Can Dance? Something, anything working outside the verse/chorus pentatonic box?

About Pavement (yes, I am a fan). Have you heard "Slanted and Enchanted"? There's not one song on the album that a major radio channel would play and still there are beautiful songs with some pretty good lyrics on there (you have to like melodies to appreciate it, I guess). And, like it or not, it's certainly not a mainstream realese, neither technically nor in any other form.

Oh horse****, they're a pop band dressed up in bad production and irritating harmonic intervals. That doesn't make them any less 'mainstream.'

[adidasss]

In that the former valorize a musical form with no creative value, yes.
that's hilarious....

[Piddzilla]

It was released by an imprint of MGM!!! How can it NOT be a 'major label' release?

Moreover, it's reception in 1967 aside, punk-leaning and later indie critics have been fellating the band's entire catalog for well-nigh on 30 years now, they sit squarely in the contemporary mainstream.

Eh.. well... I guess all this people regard it as a pretty important album then.

Yeah, and the point is that Uncut wouldn't know 'groundbreaking' if it bit them on the tiny dicks they make these lists to overcome. Mainstream rock music has never had a groundbreaking idea in all its long and storied history.

"That's, like, your opinion, man". It's really hard to discuss bananas with someone that hates bananas. You don't agree with the list simply because you hate the kind of music it lists. I wouldn't say that your opinion is totally irrelevant, but it comes pretty close.

There aren't more than 5 'independent' releases in the top 50, and several of these are 'independent' in the way that Miramax is an 'independent' film company.

Ok, so maybe you got me on that one, I didn't "research" it very well before I wrote that before. And if you're right I have to say that it's another sign of the big record companies in the past being a lot more about good music than about **** and biceps.

Who cares if they had an impact on an uncreative scene? Derivative product is derivative product, regardless of its impact on other, derivative product. There are maybe four or five releases on the whole damn list that transcend mere entertainment (The Doors, Black Sabbath, Murmur, and, if you're exceptionally charitable Isn't Anything and perhaps Piper at the Gates of Dawn. Maybe, maybe, MAYBE Captain Beefheart if novelty for its own sake is your thing. The rest? Disposable crap - more plastic for the landfill.

Again, you're being completely subjective. I've had this discussion a million times with all kinds of prog rock nerds, metal nerds, art rock nerds or whatever. It's just a matter of taste. To me the black metal scene is interesting to a certain degree and in some cases it's even very artistic, but it is as often pretty laughable to me. You can't tell me that after having witnessed a handfull of norwegian bands, all masked like demons and corpses and bathing in pig blood on stage while hissing in the microphone, that I'm suppose to think that each of those band is unique? They are just anohter scene, on the ground, over ground, underground... It really doesn't matter. And just like any other scene the bands belonging to it all sound pretty similar in the ears of someone who's not into it. Like Velvet Underground sound in your ears. ...I'm kind of surprised that you think Doors and Sabbath are acceptable while you seem to think VU are awful.

Creatively, any Burzum album is more significant than the entire gaggle of throwaway pop bands on that list.

Please explain to me why an imprisnoned nazi with a syntheziser and an obsession with darkness and Old Norse is that significant. I would agree, it isn't completely uninteresting. But replace Count Grishnackh with a 17-year old computer geek with pimples and you would probably not even consider it. And the list lists debut albums and it wasn't until he went to prison that Burzum's albums started to be interesting, right?

But seriously, you don't even have to go for metal (or even, necessarily, off of the major labels) to find far more artistically important releases then this crap:

Where's Brian Eno? In the Court of the Crimson King? Maeror Tri? Kraftwerk? Dead Can Dance? Something, anything working outside the verse/chorus pentatonic box?

I don't know. As for Kraftwerk, who I love by the way, I don't think it was until their third or fourth album that they really started to get their vision together. They themselves refuse to re-release their earliest albums since they don't want to even be associated with them, or so I've read. And again, the list lists great debut albums, not just great albums.

Oh horse****, they're a pop band dressed up in bad production and irritating harmonic intervals. That doesn't make them any less 'mainstream.'

Ah, you don't like the verse-chorus structure...

So which debut albums would you put on the list?

[Purandara88]

For starters, I don't think there's anything like 100 debut albums that are creatively significant enough to be worth noting. For most artists, the first release is either rushed, heavily dependent on influences, or both. Merely defining 'debut' is itself rather problematic. Is a band's 'debut' its first 'professional' recording? Its first release for a label? Its first album-length recording? A band like Discharge would be hard to pin down, they released five 7" or 12" EPs before rolling out their (monumental) first LP, Hear Nothing See Nothing Say Nothing in 1982. That last album undoubtedly belongs on the list...if you consider a band's first long player to be their 'debut'. What about demos? Quite a few bands have recorded demo tapes that are essentially full-length records, and, in underground genres, these often have as much, if not more influence than 'official' recordings.

[Piddzilla]

Well, you're banned, but just in case you'll read this anyway...

For starters, I don't think there's anything like 100 debut albums that are creatively significant enough to be worth noting. For most artists, the first release is either rushed, heavily dependent on influences, or both.

Or none of the above. The exceptions sometimes end up on lists like Uncut's.

Merely defining 'debut' is itself rather problematic. Is a band's 'debut' its first 'professional' recording?

Pretty much, yeah.

Its first release for a label?

Yes.

Its first album-length recording?

Exactly.

A band like Discharge would be hard to pin down, they released five 7" or 12" EPs before rolling out their (monumental) first LP, Hear Nothing See Nothing Say Nothing in 1982. That last album undoubtedly belongs on the list...

Well, a perfect example then!

if you consider a band's first long player to be their 'debut'.

Debut album - debut LP. I think it's pretty much the same thing, yes.

What about demos?

That's another thing. A demonstration of you talent with the aim of scoring a recording deal.

Quite a few bands have recorded demo tapes that are essentially full-length records, and, in underground genres, these often have as much, if not more influence than 'official' recordings.

I think you might have an idea for another list here. Except it would be even more problematic for you to make than the debut album list. If most debut albums are rushed and heavily dependent on influences - what does that say about demos?

[VeronicaJ]

Ooooh! i really enjoyed Is This It and Franz Ferdinand
I also liked (not on list) Left of the middle by Natalia Imbruglia

[Piddzilla]

Ooooh! i really enjoyed Is This It and Franz Ferdinand
I also liked (not on list) Left of the middle by Natalia Imbruglia

I wonder what P88 would have said about that..... ;)

[shirble]

probably one of the better musical discussions I've ever read on a randomly googled forum, so well done :)

But, aw, Animal Collective's debut was pretty lovely, as was Go! Team

[VeronicaJ]

I wonder what P88 would have said about that..... ;)


me too (in a kinda i dont have a clue whatsoever way:D)

[shirble]

yeah, what happened to the guy anyway? He wasn't banned because of the posts in here was he?

[Piddzilla]

yeah, what happened to the guy anyway? He wasn't banned because of the posts in here was he?

Nope. :nope: He's a racist.

[shirble]

hah, jeez

Silly Purandara. You just get more and more charming.

[Loner]

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00004Y6O9.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Van Halen


http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0000035E7.03.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Nirvana - Bleach

[VeronicaJ]

love nirvana.

[AmyLovesYou]

There are so many good bands on that list. I think The Mars Volta - De-Loused in the Comatorium and Toadies- Rubberneck should be on the list. :)

[diamondgeeza]

I'm also pretty sure Eminem made one before "The Slim Shady LP".
He did, It's Called 'Infinite' See here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_%28album%29)
http://www.ilpotereelagloria.it/images/immagini/Eminem_Infinite.jpg

[Thursday Next]

Nine Inch Nails - Pretty Hate Machine