Artificial Intelligence

[bigvalbowski]

It says a lot about AI that though I didn't really like it, I went to see it a second time. And you know what, I still didn't really like it.

A simple patch job could fix things right up. The first act is wonderful. The second act needs lengthening, the third act needs to disappear.

The second act needs an additional sub-plot that gives Gigolo Joe something more to do. He's such a great character that it's a shame his role is nothing more than a guide for David. The pair need to visit a different part of the world. Rouge City is fabulous looking but then we are taken into a claustrophobic room with Dr. Know that is a bore. Dr. Know is a triumph of computer effects but he needed to be funny.

If the film ended with the narrator saying that David kept wishing to the Blue Fairy for ever, and ever and ever... it would have been so pessimistic, so awful, so different. WOW!!

It didn't need epilogue.

Oh and please somebody explain to me Gigolo Joe's final lines. "I am... I was". I don't get it.

[spudracer]

http://www.movieforums.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=591

There ya go

[bigvalbowski]

Post too long.

Want new discussion.

[spudracer]

Sorry bud, not my rules. This is something TWT usually does, but I beat him to it this time.

[Yoda]

C'mon, it isn't too long. Just hop to the last page. Too long for what? :)

[bigvalbowski]

I've read everything in the post but I don't usually reply to something that has already got 5 pages of replies. And I don't think I'm the only one.

It's like refreshing the post.

[Yoda]

Oh, alright. :D

[Holden Pike]

Yes, I agree completely! Why should I bother joining a 'discussion' on a topic and actually interacting with other's views - attempting at some sort of continued and organic 'dialogue', when I can simply start a new thread on the exact same subject and state what I want to state and have it up at the very top of the thread?

In fact, why am I even putting these brilliant remarks as a reply when they could be an entire new thread? Some are surely going to be put off by the half-dozen posts above this one and may not be inclined to reply any further!

Oh, well. At the very least, I certainly adore repeating myself on the same subject, as I'm sure we all do!

[bigvalbowski]

Thank you Mr Pike. I'm grateful that you understand.

Now can we get back to my question. Explain Jude Law's exit line: "I am... I was".

Am I missing something? What does it mean? Was it deeply profound and my stupid brain just didn't grasp it? Or is it a failed attempt by Spielberg to give Gigolo Joe an immortal closing line?

[Steve]

LOL :laugh: Holden, you cracked me up.

I'll repeat myself, this is Spielberg's best movie, after the second viewing I was sure it's a masterpiece. THE best sci fi movie since 2001, better than the Matrix, better than Blade Runner.

[Holden Pike]

I'd like to answer your specific Gigilo Joe question, BigVal, but..

a) I haven't seen the flick since June and don't remember the details of that moment

b) this thread is already too long to warrant any further replies. If and when I decide to answer the question I will, of course, start an entirely new thread of my own

[sadesdrk]

I absolutely love Holden Pike's quote and biglavoski's too.sorry if I spelled your user name wrong dude.:D

[sadesdrk]

Originally posted by sadesdrk
I absolutely love Holden Pike's quote and biglavoski's too.sorry if I spelled your user name wrong dude.:D okay,i looked at it and i was way off...bigvalbowski...what the heck?Oh and A.I.was greatness for the first half...then,it went in a direction I didn't approve of.

[Yoda]

Better than "The Matrix"? What a load of it. (crap, that is). I mean, geez, didn't you read my little list of stupid plot elements? :)

[mecurdius]

i actually kinda liked this movie. But it wasnt great, coulda been better. But it wasnt terrible either.

[thmilin]

this movie was too dark with no redemption. a proportionate amount of revelation and LEARNING must come to key characters or surroundings in a positive manner to the dark that went before and there was so much pain, angst, confusion, loss, and darkness in this movie that the end just didn't cut it for me.

i think that's what all my wailing in the other thread comes down to when i think of it.

"I am ... I was." I can't remember too well myself, either. But I think it was simply reemphasizing the argument he made earlier to the kid (can't even remember the character's name any more!) that he exists and is someone and something despite humanity's attempts to make him nobody/a thing for use, and that he will go on existing. A sort of one to one, "I am Spartacus." Reassertion of existence, before it's all over.

i'm so sorry peoples The Matrix is IT!! well ... it's up there with T2, anyway. but i definitely think AI would be on the list, just not surpassing either of those.

hey, what's this about an alternate ending on the DVD? what is it?
[Edited by thmilin on 10-07-2001]

[Steve]

Originally posted by TWTCommish
Better than "The Matrix"? What a load of it. (crap, that is).

The Matrix is trapped in its own pretensions. It thinks it's some sort of existential exploration of humanity, when in reality it's just a fun action movie. There's nothing "deep" to it at all. It doesn't ask questions, it doesn't even raise them, unless you're a 15 year old stoner. "Yes Dude!!! The robots run everything. Reality isn't reality. Whoa." I like the movie, I think it's a lot of fun, but no way is it even on the same level with something like A.I., which actually forces us to think about things.

[Yoda]

Give me a break. A.I. made us think about a few things, but blew it trying to be TOO deep, and happy, at the end. The final scenes were a complete joke, which is why it was such a commercial dissapointment. Spielberg was stoned. :) And yeah, "The Matrix" was fun action movie...with some very interesting sci-fi ideas. No, it was not super-deep, but it was deeper than the majority of movies out there (and, I venture to say, nearly as deep as A.I. was at times)...and that made it a great sci-fi movie. Sci-fi is about action, excitement, and cool scientific-related storylines. "The Matrix" is a near-perfect embodiment of what a sci-fi movie should be. It just seems stale because most of us have seen it several times over. It seems old to me, too, but I don't let that cloud my judgement.

[thmilin]

the Matrix never seems stale to me. yes Keanu has some stiff acting moments and it's not perfect ... not nearly as perfect to me as T2, and it has some pretensions, but pretensions come with questioning reality flicks.

if you think about it, these two movies are inverses -

- Matrix is about the human condition in a world run by greedy, unfeeling AI gone rabid (post T2 Apocalypse)

-AI is about the AI condition in a world run by greedy, unfeeling HUMANS before the technology has a chance to revolt

both are about purity of spirit - AI about maintaining that despite tribulations and learning what humanity was/is before it went wicked (as if it wasn't always!) and Matrix is about a similar thing, staying independent and true to oneself and fighting back in the name of humanity and what you stand for.

David took it cuz he didn't know better and he didn't have any choice. he's an innocent. it all ends in lala land, then, for him.

Neo and such don't take it lying down and fight back - which is why I think it speaks to us more, because not only is the situation tough, it's overcome- a very American concept.

same for T2. yes, it can be whittled down to an "action flick" but I think there's more to it than that, definitely.

[Guy]

I felt The Matrix was better than A.I., one thing that pushed it over the edge was its entertainment factor. A.I. was pretty interesting and engaging for the majority of the film, but it did not pay off in the end.

[Steve]

Originally posted by TWTCommish
Give me a break. A.I. made us think about a few things, but blew it trying to be TOO deep, and happy, at the end. The final scenes were a complete joke, which is why it was such a commercial dissapointment. Spielberg was stoned. :) And yeah, "The Matrix" was fun action movie...with some very interesting sci-fi ideas. No, it was not super-deep, but it was deeper than the majority of movies out there (and, I venture to say, nearly as deep as A.I. was at times)...and that made it a great sci-fi movie. Sci-fi is about action, excitement, and cool scientific-related storylines. "The Matrix" is a near-perfect embodiment of what a sci-fi movie should be. It just seems stale because most of us have seen it several times over. It seems old to me, too, but I don't let that cloud my judgement.


First, why does it matter whether it made money or not? That has NOTHING whatsoever to do with how good it is. Citizen Kane was a box office disappointment. Wild Wild West made $200 million.

I didn't think the so-called 'ideas' in the Matrix were anything near what Spielberg was bringing up in A.I. A.I. explores the nature of humanity (with David as a metaphor), the Matrix is about how cool an action scene can look. The great achievement in Spielberg's movie, I think, is that questions are raised that all of us have asked in one way or another, and it's done in an unsettling, profound way.

I can understand thmilin's notion that people identify with The Matrix more...but maybe that's because of its action appeal. People like to see movies that have lots of asskicking, and they like to see movies with Keanu Reeves in them. The fact that it attempted to be more than that (and it does...I acknowledge that) is what has people saying it's a great movie full of ideas. I'm sorry, but nothing in the Matrix has and will ever touch me emotionally in the way A.I. did. So, yeah, I agree that there's universality in both stories, but A.I. makes you think about things that actually pertain to humanity. The Matrix doesn't ask questions that can't be dismissed with a wave of the hand.

I think the best science fiction has an existential element to it as well, something that makes us question our being. I don't think The Matrix has this, and while it's a lot of fun and a top-of-the-line action picture, it falls flat in its so-called examination of reality. It's bubblegum sci-fi, something to vex all the teenagers who are disgruntled with the world and are ready to believe anything.

[Yoda]

Why is the measure of a good sci-fi movie about deep emotions and touching someone's soul? I'm of the belief that a movie is NOT superior just because it makes you cry, or think a whole lot. Sometimes it's good, and it has it's place, but it's not, by definition, better...the way many people seem to think. A.I. raised a simple question (yes, simple): what makes us alive? Is it love? What is love?

The Matrix asks us this: are we becoming complacent? Are we going to go too far? Will we destroy ourselves.

Sorry, but A.I.'s elements don't seem any more thought provoking to me than that of The Matrix...but of course, The Matrix's fight scenes leave you too blown away to think about the underlying theology...and so it is dismissed, in the way you've dismissed it. It's as if The Matrix's theological undertones are punished because their fight scenes are even more captivating.

Oh, and I didn't say a film's commercial success had any kind of direct correlation with how good it is...what I did say, though (c'mon, you read it man...it was easy to understand), is that it's completely pathetic, ridiculous scenes (no, I'm not exaggerating...they were utter crap. HORRIBLY executed. It nearly ruined the movie for me) are what caused it to become a box office dissapointment. That's all I said...anything else is the result of your imagination. :)