Lance Accused, Again [Archive]

John McClane

08-26-05, 09:55 PM

Tour de France Head: Armstrong Needs to Come Clean (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,166602,00.html) Alright France, that's enough. I've quite had it with the "Lance does drugs" and "Take a urine test." Seriously, grow up or shut up. If seven years of nothing but negative drug tests doesn't tell you that Lance never did drugs, your country is in some serious trouble. Whether you believe Lance did drugs or not, it doesn't give you the right to attack and attack the greatest athlete on the face of this planet. Say what you will and say what you might. You'll never turn me away from one of the greatest role models in history. He fights back from cancer and you deny it with the up most rudeness. He wins his fifth tour yet, you all seem to want to spit and cuss him on the way to the top. He wins his sixth tour without any sight of end for the attempts to destroy his career contiune. Finally, he becomes the greatest thing for cycling when he wins his seventh tour. He steps down for good and then you accuse him. France, you give me hope for America.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

susan

08-26-05, 09:59 PM

don't be sorry...i agree with you...

John McClane

08-26-05, 10:43 PM

don't be sorry...i agree with you...It was more or less the part about France. Hehe!! :)

susan

08-26-05, 10:46 PM

well, i still agree

Darth Stujitzu

08-26-05, 10:48 PM

John McClane

08-27-05, 10:09 PM

A case of jealousy? Lance Armstrong is a pioneer and legend of the Tour de France circuit, and after all he's been through it sounds very much a case of sour grapes.
Saddens me that even after he retires with an unblemished record they are still trying to tarnish his name and reputation.
Perhaps they should get behind him and support his charity work rather than focus on negative rumours that have no foundation.
Bingo. My dad and I think that all of his fellow riders that stand beside him and respect him should boycott the tour unless they back off Lance. I know I would if I was one of the riders. :)

jrs

08-27-05, 10:27 PM

Just leave the guy alone is all I have to say. What real harm did he cause? He has struggled alot and fought his way into submission and became who he is today. Somebody we all should be proud of.

Piddzilla

08-28-05, 05:45 PM

Well, the guy is one of the greatest athletes ever, no question about that. But I don't think it's as simple as that and I don't think we've heard the last about this.... That's all for now.

John McClane

08-28-05, 06:22 PM

Well, the guy is one of the greatest athletes ever, no question about that. But I don't think it's as simple as that and I don't think we've heard the last about this.... That's all for now.You also have to take into account that Lance has past drug test after test. And finally, after 7 years they find drugs. Little bit funny hmm.

Piddzilla

08-28-05, 07:10 PM

If I have understood this correctly they didn't look for "epo" back then so therefore they didn't find anything. But apparently the samples were being frozen and saved and now when they did look for "epo", they also found it in there. And today I read somewhere that Armstrong has admitted that he did use "epo", but as a part of his cancer treatment. The problem is, the way I've had it laid out for me, that the treatment stopped almost two years before his first tour victory when the sample was taken. I am not sure if "epo" was an illegal substance (hell, I don't even know what "epo" is - is it a substance?) back in those days, so even if he did use it, it's not clear if you could call that cheating or not.

We have to remember that substances that are not allowed today may have been allowed - or "undiscovered" - 7 years ago.

Another thing that I read in some article (I'm sorry I'm not able to link you to any of my sources) is that Armstrong's cancer treatment, according to some scientists, very well may have affected his body's abilities to recover itself after hard physical efforts in a positive way, which might explain his extraordinary post illness tour record. Well, together with enormous amounts of talent and training of course (and perhaps a little bit of help from Ms Crow as well ;D ).

Darth Stujitzu

08-28-05, 07:12 PM

Remember France 98?
Brazilian football star Ronaldo developed a strange virus on the day of the final.......
conspiracy?
What do our French Mofo's think?

John McClane

08-28-05, 07:15 PM

Even still, why would they need to keep samples form 7 years ago I mean it don't suprize me but still why? And then you have the small thing about the results wouldn't be given to anybody except the Anti-Drug world thing. Also, they did this entire test on A samples where the B samples no long exist. If I understood that correctly.If I have understood this correctly they didn't look for "epo" back then so therefore they didn't find anything. But apparently the samples were being frozen and saved and now when they did look for "epo", they also found it in there. And today I read somewhere that Armstrong has admitted that he did use "epo", but as a part of his cancer treatment. The problem is, the way I've had it laid out for me, that the treatment stopped almost two years before his first tour victory when the sample was taken. I am not sure if "epo" was an illegal substance (hell, I don't even know what "epo" is - is it a substance?) back in those days, so even if he did use it, it's not clear if you could call that cheating or not. Another thing that I read in some article (I'm sorry I'm not able to link you to any of my sources) is that Armstrong's cancer treatment, according to some scientists, very well may have affected his body's abilities to recover itself after hard physical efforts in a positive way, which might explain his extraordinary post illness tour record. Well, together with enormous amounts of talent and training of course (and perhaps a little bit of help from Ms Crow as well ;D ).

Piddzilla

08-28-05, 07:29 PM

Even still, why would they need to keep samples form 7 years ago I mean it don't suprize me but still why?

Probably because the guys who develop the illegal drugs and methods are always one step ahead of those trying to catch them. So, even if you're officially clean today doesn't mean you won't be officially a cheater tomorrow.

And then you have the small thing about the results wouldn't be given to anybody except the Anti-Drug world thing. Also, they did this entire test on A samples where the B samples no long exist. If I understood that correctly.

Yeah somebody obviously leaked. And it's a pity if Armstrong has to take all this crap if he's innocent. A lot of people will probably think "Well, no smoke without a fire...". But if this Anti-Drug world thing suspects any bad stuff going on I think it's their duty to investigate the matter, using whatever methods and equipment they've got.

The technical aspects like A and B samples I don't have a clue on.

John McClane

08-28-05, 07:33 PM

A0C8C

08-29-05, 12:32 AM

I must be the only one who hates Lance. I like what he stands for, the cancer side and comeback side, but none of this would ever be news worthy if it wasn't for cancer. Cancer put him in the news, cancer treatment is the reason he became good, cancer is the only reason we even know much about him. He's milking every but of press about him. He gets off on the fact that he's messing up traffic while I'm trying to get to work, illegally riding on the highway with tons of bikers following his every move. I was written up at work because of him, d****t. Nah, that's not why I dislike him. He took advantage of his misfortune in a bad way. Sure it's nice he won the Tour De France many times, he's still too scared to race in any other large race. I can't remember the other races names, or the rider whos won almost every one and should be regarded higher than lance, so I'm not even going to go there. All I know, is if he'd participate in other races, instead of the same one year after year, I'd like him more. He's not one of the greatest athletes of all time, and shoudl not be places in any list of that nature. There's cyclists that are alot better than hum, even on his team. Thers riders that shoudl be alot more famous than hum, but they never had cancer so they never made it into the news. Lace's cancer is the only reason peopl even know of him. hell, I rode with him once, before his giant success and I liked him. He was nice, supportive, and had some inspiring stories. Now, eve loyal Austinites who used to ride with him alot are starting to stray away. He's become alot less friendly to people now and wants to ride alone. I hate the man and hope he's out of the news soon. Destroying his image like that..... they never learn. Every athlete is starting to sell out or think they're better than everyone, and it's gonna cause the downfall of sports.

Piddzilla

08-29-05, 09:16 AM

Well according to certain sources, there were two samples given. A and B. Yet they don't have sample B to compare. Not to mention all this was done in a French lab. Easy to contaminate something don't you think?

Yes, I know about A and B samples, what they are. I only don't know what's the deal with this specific case. And Tour de France happens to be a french race so, yeah, of course the lab is in France. And the conspiracy theory... That's a little ridiculous, isn't it? I also find it a little odd that they would try to contaminate the samples of the man who's giving the race such an enormous promotional boost. Had you, as an american, even heard about Tour de France before Lance?

About A0C8C's.. eh.. "wild" post. Yes, it is true that Lance isn't necessarily considered to be the best ever basically because of the reasons you mentioned: he's won Tour de France the most times but he hasn't, for instance, won Giro d'Italia. The guy you were thinking of might be belgian Eddy Merckx who's won both Tour de France and Giro d'Italia five times each and is also one of only four to have won all three of the Grand Tours (Tour de France, Giro d'Italia and Vuelta a España). But if a tennis player won US Open seven years in a row but never any of the other Grand Slam tournaments, wouldn't that player still be great?

John McClane

08-29-05, 05:11 PM

Yes, I know about A and B samples, what they are. I only don't know what's the deal with this specific case. And Tour de France happens to be a french race so, yeah, of course the lab is in France. And the conspiracy theory... That's a little ridiculous, isn't it? I also find it a little odd that they would try to contaminate the samples of the man who's giving the race such an enormous promotional boost. Had you, as an american, even heard about Tour de France before Lance?

About A0C8C's.. eh.. "wild" post. Yes, it is true that Lance isn't necessarily considered to be the best ever basically because of the reasons you mentioned: he's won Tour de France the most times but he hasn't, for instance, won Giro d'Italia. The guy you were thinking of might be belgian Eddy Merckx who's won both Tour de France and Giro d'Italia five times each and is also one of only four to have won all three of the Grand Tours (Tour de France, Giro d'Italia and Vuelta a España). But if a tennis player won US Open seven years in a row but never any of the other Grand Slam tournaments, wouldn't that player still be great?Yes, I've been a advant watcher of the Tour even before Lance made his first victory. And A0C8C, about this quote "he's still too scared to race in any other large race." Does your underwear have the name Lance Armstrong written in it? I'm guessing no.

Sedai

08-29-05, 05:16 PM

Yes, I've been a advant watcher of the Tour even before Lance made his first victory. And A0C8C, about this quote "he's still too scared to race in any other large race." Does your underwear have the name Lance Armstrong written in it? I'm guessing no. Well, does yours? Otherwise, how would you know whether or not the allegations were true? Evidence has already been posed about the drug tests, so you can't use that as a reason. So, how would you know, anyway?

;)

John McClane

08-29-05, 05:22 PM

Well, does yours? Otherwise, how would you know whether or not the allegations were true? Evidence has already been posed about the drug tests, so you can;t use that as a reason. So, how would you know, anyway?

;)
I was making the small statement that unless your underwear reads Lance Armstrong you can't make conclusions such as "he's scared." :)

Sedai

08-29-05, 05:32 PM

I was making the small statement that unless your underwear reads Lance Armstrong you can't make conclusions such as "he's scared." :)
Or "He didn't take drugs"

John McClane

08-29-05, 06:17 PM

Or "He didn't take drugs"From all the evidence I've seen so far, that's my conclusion.

A0C8C

08-29-05, 11:28 PM

About A0C8C's.. eh.. "wild" post. Yes, it is true that Lance isn't necessarily considered to be the best ever basically because of the reasons you mentioned: he's won Tour de France the most times but he hasn't, for instance, won Giro d'Italia. The guy you were thinking of might be belgian Eddy Merckx who's won both Tour de France and Giro d'Italia five times each and is also one of only four to have won all three of the Grand Tours (Tour de France, Giro d'Italia and Vuelta a España). But if a tennis player won US Open seven years in a row but never any of the other Grand Slam tournaments, wouldn't that player still be great?Sports Illistrated)I think it was this one) out him in the top 10 greatest athletes of all time and thats blashpgemous. He's not the greatest cyclist so how can he be one of the greatest athletes of all time? Theres no way he should be up there with people like Ali and Jordan. I didn't even like how Tiger was up there, but he atleast golfs in alot ot tournaments, and not one a year.

John McClane

08-29-05, 11:37 PM

Sports Illistrated)I think it was this one) out him in the top 10 greatest athletes of all time and thats blashpgemous. He's not the greatest cyclist so how can he be one of the greatest athletes of all time? Theres no way he should be up there with people like Ali and Jordan. I didn't even like how Tiger was up there, but he atleast golfs in alot ot tournaments, and not one a year.Alright, we get the fact you dislike Lance only riding in one tour. Then again, if it's the race you love, why not? Eh?

A0C8C

08-29-05, 11:46 PM

Alright, we get the fact you dislike Lance only riding in one tour. Then again, if it's the race you love, why not? Eh?Its not that I care that he rides in only one race. It's the press he gets and the praise he gets as if he's the greatest thing to happen in the last 7 years. I'd like him if it wasn't for the endless press and his arrogance.

Piddzilla

08-30-05, 09:06 AM

cutter

08-30-05, 10:45 AM

I'm an avid cyclist, and just shake my head when looking back at all of this. Ever since he won the first tour, he has been scrutinized. Why can't the french just realize that he is a great ambassador for the sport, especially in the US. Why didn't they come out with this before he retired? It's just so convenient that they attack only after he can't defend himself. Frankly, it doesn't surprise me the french go after this tactic.

If you hate LA for all the media attention, what do you think about Barry Bonds? I bet Barry gets million times more coverage than Lance does. Besides, everyone doesn't consider cycling athletic. Besides, they are only riding a bike. Not like they are hitting a home run! Well, all I have to say about that is have any of them tried to ride 100 miles in one day? Or even 200 miles in one day? You'll know how hard it is after doing that ... and they finish the stage in about 4-5 hours!!!!

John McClane

08-30-05, 06:08 PM

Its not that I care that he rides in only one race. It's the press he gets and the praise he gets as if he's the greatest thing to happen in the last 7 years. I'd like him if it wasn't for the endless press and his arrogance.Guess what, he is the greatest thing to happen in the last 7 years. He brought people into a sport that was all but dead in America. He made the average American sit down to watch the greatest athletes in the world. Not only that, he helped an organization raise millions of dollars for cancer research. On top of all this, he just so happens to battle back from testicular cancer that spread to his lungs and brain just to win 7 tours. I mean that can't be so special. Or can it? He's at least one of the greatest things to happen in the past 7 years. So, do you want rephrase that comment there, bud? :)

A0C8C

09-01-05, 12:59 AM

Guess what, he is the greatest thing to happen in the last 7 years. He brought people into a sport that was all but dead in America. He made the average American sit down to watch the greatest athletes in the world. Not only that, he helped an organization raise millions of dollars for cancer research. On top of all this, he just so happens to battle back from testicular cancer that spread to his lungs and brain just to win 7 tours. I mean that can't be so special. Or can it? He's at least one of the greatest things to happen in the past 7 years. So, do you want rephrase that comment there, bud? :)Can't rephrase it. I don't care if he had cancer or not, he's not the only one to survive cancer and do great things. Cycling wasn't dead before Lance came around. Atleast not here it wasn't. Theres been people cycling long before Lance. I had teachers in middle school that took part in rides from Dallas to Austin. I've seen the race from one Iowa border to the next. 70 year old grandmas ride in that race. Lance is just lucky media hype.

The Watcher

10-25-05, 05:58 PM

I have a friend that hates Lance Armstrong-he got into a fight at a bar over Lance Armstrong--he kept calling the other guy 'princess'--Lance brings out the best in all of us

John McClane

10-25-05, 10:22 PM

I see no sense in continuing this arguement when neither of us are going to budge on our views.

Caitlyn

10-26-05, 05:15 PM

I must be the only one who hates Lance.

Apparently not...

I have a friend that hates Lance Armstrong

Hate is such a strong emotion… and I used to think in order to feel such an emotion toward anyone, you would actually have to know that person… but then I started dealing with murderers, child molesters, rapists, robbers, etc…. and I learned someone can feel emotions very similar to what can only be defined as hate without having prior knowledge of that person… but for the life of me, I can't figure out why Lance winning a couple of bike races and beating cancer is so terrible that anyone would actually hate him for it…

Dazed&Confused

11-04-05, 12:04 AM

Lance Armstrong is not even close to being the greatest athlete of all times and all sportsmen take performance enhancing substances.

Caitlyn

11-04-05, 12:34 PM

Lance Armstrong is not even close to being the greatest athlete of all times and all sportsmen take performance enhancing substances.

"Of all times" implies 'since forever'… so under those stipulations, no, Lance is not the greatest, but that doesn't exclude him from being one of the greats… and in order to accuse all athletes of taking performance enhancing substances, you would have to personally know each and everyone of them and have access to all of their medical files… otherwise, your accusation is nothing more then a personal assumption, possibly based on hearsay… which is, in fact, nothing more then malicious gossip.

The Watcher

11-04-05, 03:08 PM

Hate is such a strong emotion… and I used to think in order to feel such an emotion toward anyone, you would actually have to know that person… but then I started dealing with murderers, child molesters, rapists, robbers, etc…. and I learned someone can feel emotions very similar to what can only be defined as hate without having prior knowledge of that person… but for the life of me, I can't figure out why Lance winning a couple of bike races and beating cancer is so terrible that anyone would actually hate him for it…[/QUOTE]

I believe that love and hate are the same emotions just manifested differently--you can't hate unless you love--I guess that's why if you love someone and they betray you-it hurts so much and you can have the ability to hate them. My friend that hates Lance Armstrong is French and he is very much in love with being French--that's why he can hate something that he sees as anti-French--I don't know, Lance doesnt bother me-I'm just trying to make sense of the whole thing

Dazed&Confused

11-04-05, 09:16 PM

"Of all times" implies 'since forever'… so under those stipulations, no, Lance is not the greatest, but that doesn't exclude him from being one of the greats… and in order to accuse all athletes of taking performance enhancing substances, you would have to personally know each and everyone of them and have access to all of their medical files… otherwise, your accusation is nothing more then a personal assumption, possibly based on hearsay… which is, in fact, nothing more then malicious gossip.

ok so he's not one of the greatest of all times but he is indeed one of the greats? In what context would you call hime great? The last year, 5 years, decade?

Saying that athletes do not take performance enhancing substances is basically wrong. There are hundreds of legal performance enhancing stimulants which all athletes will admit to taking. Steroids is a blanket term used to describe many different stimulants, some which are legal, some which are not.

HellboyUnleashed

11-08-05, 09:21 PM

SpoOkY

11-08-05, 09:27 PM

Well, it's final. He was stripped of his Tour de France awards.
The French found 3 objects that have been banned from the Tour and not used commonly in France anyways. They found a Bar of Soap, a stick of deoderant and a thing of toothpaste.

oo *smack* he hit a little below the belt there, that one may leave a mark folks. Hey hellboy you kind of freaked me out with the start of your post 'he was stripped of his Tour de France awards', I was :eek: then :laugh:.

HellboyUnleashed

11-09-05, 08:27 PM

oo *smack* he hit a little below the belt there, that one may leave a mark folks. Hey hellboy you kind of freaked me out with the start of your post 'he was stripped of his Tour de France awards', I was :eek: then :laugh:.

Well, it's a bit bellow the belt to try and take his awards away because your not satisfied that an American kicked your teams @$$ and that you had traces of drugs in your system that were helping you fight your sickness. And for all those people who say he's not the greatest bike rider, I agree. He isn't that good but the reason people like him so much is that he always has the fight in him. He feels like crap after he races because of a side effect of the cancer, he doesn't quit though. He fought against the odds and beat back his cancer. I realize that other people have done this and gone to do better things and I'm not saying that they are great people too but they don't represent America in one of the biggest sports events during the year. I just think that we should all let it slide. Let the man have his awards, let the French fume about it, and after a while it will all go away. It's only a game, nothing significant is going to come from it other than some record that someone else is sure to break someday, it's not going to spark a war because we beat them in racing bikes around their own country. I just say that we let it pass and move on.

HellboyUnleashed

11-14-05, 11:47 PM

^^^ I guess thats what you call a thread killer :)

Equilibrium

11-15-05, 01:21 AM

Well, it's a bit bellow the belt to try and take his awards away because your not satisfied that an American kicked your teams @$$ and that you had traces of drugs in your system that were helping you fight your sickness. And for all those people who say he's not the greatest bike rider, I agree. He isn't that good but the reason people like him so much is that he always has the fight in him. He feels like crap after he races because of a side effect of the cancer, he doesn't quit though. He fought against the odds and beat back his cancer. I realize that other people have done this and gone to do better things and I'm not saying that they are great people too but they don't represent America in one of the biggest sports events during the year. I just think that we should all let it slide. Let the man have his awards, let the French fume about it, and after a while it will all go away. It's only a game, nothing significant is going to come from it other than some record that someone else is sure to break someday, it's not going to spark a war because we beat them in racing bikes around their own country. I just say that we let it pass and move on.

Yeah it definitly was a thread killer. Mainly because its ridiculous.

You brought into this matter the issue of race and the fact that he was pissed because an american beat his ass as you say. Show me when the last time Lance Armstrong started pouting when he didn't do as well as he always does. And what does race have anything to do with this? Mst you always turn the issue of a bike race into american versus french?
The guy has less blood than every other racer, and his blood is thinner. He takes medicine that keeps him from dying, i doesn't enhance his abilities nor does it give him the slightest advantage. Therefore your whole arguement is void and null. He happens to be one of the greatest athletes if not THE greatest of our time. So there, don't try to bring race into this again or I will jump on your ass about it....again :)