View Full Version : Pope Benedict XVI
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger of Germany, the Roman Catholic Church's leading hard-liner, was elected the new pope Tuesday in the first conclave of the new millennium. He chose the name Benedict XVI.
Read more here (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20050419/ap_on_re_eu/pope_27)
blibblobblib
04-19-05, 04:43 PM
He 'chose' the name Benedict XVI? And his real name is Joseph Ratzinger. Are they allowed to choose any name they want? How bizarre.
I would have chose something far more exciting. Something like....Pope Zargon - the Destroyer of Worlds.
http://www.catholicplanet.com/articles/article41.htm
And I quote:
About the year A.D. 1139, Saint Malachy O'Morgair, Archbishop of Armagh, Ireland, wrote down a list of Popes. He listed 112 future Popes, each described by a phrase in Latin. [1] There has been increasing interest in this list among Roman Catholics, for two reasons. First, the descriptions of Popes #109 and #110 match the pontificates of Popes John Paul I and John Paul II to a tee. Second, there are only two more Popes on the list, and the last Pope on the list is given a long apocalyptic description, instead of a quaint and cryptic phrase.
The next Pope after John Paul II will take the name Pope Benedict XVI, in imitation of Saint Benedict and also of Pope Benedict XV. Just as Pope Benedict XV was an emissary of peace, so will Pope Benedict XVI be an emissary of peace.
Yep.
Garrett
04-19-05, 05:06 PM
He looks a little like Palpatine... perhaps Anthony Hopkins as well.
joshuafor
04-19-05, 06:09 PM
Did anyone see the coverage of the smoke coming from the Vatican. It was weird how no one could tell if it was black or white. Kinda symbolic if you think about it.
As a catholic I'm very concerned about the new Pontiff for two reasons.
The first reason is very superficial, it deals with the fact that I and a lot of other young catholics who grew with and trusted Pope John Paul II and now we are being coerced into trusting in the new Pope and this is going to take time for us.
The other reason is that the Cardinal is known for being very conservative and we must wonder is he going to move forward with the times or is he going to reinforce orthodoxy and push the state of the Catholic Church back a good 50 to hundred years. He is already known for talking about certain issues like women in the church and homosexuals.
Is this new Pope going to be too conservative for the young generation of Catholics today?
blibblobblib
04-19-05, 06:46 PM
Is this new Pope going to be too conservative for the young generation of Catholics today?
From what iv'e heard so far, yes i think he may be. What was the last popes views on Women in the church, abortions and homosexuality?
Piddzilla
04-19-05, 06:48 PM
Did anyone see the coverage of the smoke coming from the Vatican. It was weird how no one could tell if it was black or white. Kinda symbolic if you think about it.
That happens almost every time.
From what iv'e heard so far, yes i think he may be. What was the last popes views on Women in the church, abortions and homosexuality?
Oh they were all for those things! :rolleyes:
blibblobblib
04-19-05, 06:56 PM
Oh they were all for those things! :rolleyes:
Alas. He shall be missed greatly.
*Does cross thingy over shoulders and head*
Sexy Celebrity
04-19-05, 07:03 PM
I'm not Catholic and I don't care for Popes - why bow down to someone who hates homosexuals? But I did watch the new Pope come out of his window today, just because it was a big event that hasn't happened since before I was born (and this time, it featured a neat CGI animation of what was happening in the Vatican!)
We'll see what happens with the predictions in OG's article -- though the psychic is fallible! Wonder if any of us will make it to the year 2400 to know if he was right about Christ's return. But I noticed something peculiar today - did it start raining just before the new pope came out? And also, today is the 10th anniversary of the Oklahoma City Bombing and 12th anniversary of the Waco, Texas massacre. Tomorrow is the 6th anniversary of the Columbine High School massacre. Spooky.
Tacitus
04-19-05, 07:36 PM
He's a transitional Pontiff, marking time before Sinéad O'Connor takes the gig...
Paddy Power bookmakers here were offering odds of 10,000-1 on Fr Dougal Maguire being chosen (I wouldn't make it up, trust me). Some people actually had a punt on him.
http://www.british-sitcom.co.uk/father_ted/graphics/char_dougal.jpg
blibblobblib
04-19-05, 10:26 PM
Paddy Power bookmakers here were offering odds of 10,000-1 on Fr Dougal Maguire being chosen (I wouldn't make it up, trust me). Some people actually had a punt on him.
http://www.british-sitcom.co.uk/father_ted/graphics/char_dougal.jpg
:laugh:
That would be brilliant. He would almost certainly cause the decimation of all religions and the probable destruction of Earth but it would be so worth it. :yup:
Godsend
04-19-05, 10:29 PM
Why did the Pope cross the road?
Because he crosses everything!
ROFL!
Okay...umm well let's see. New pope. Vatican City. Not Catholic. Nope, doesn't affect me too much. Now the question I have is whatever he says automatically goes? Now I know about the different types of Christians out there (which is very odd, I mean get your act together all ready), so does this Pope have total say on all Christians, or just Catholics.
All Catholics are Christian, but not all Christians are Catholic right?
BTW, yeah he does look like a conservative...usually the ears, Bush, Reagan, Ford...or maybe it's just me and me wanting to group people :)
i believe it's just catholics....
Sexy Celebrity
04-19-05, 11:30 PM
He's a transitional Pontiff, marking time before Sinéad O'Connor takes the gig...
You can tell Sinéad O'Crackhead that she's not going to be the first to destroy the new Pope's picture, like she did ages ago on Saturday Night Live. Oh no. This time, it's Sexy Celebrity all the way, baby! And what do you think?
I've monstercized him, given him a whole new hairdo - Kermit the frog green, spiky punk - and his teeth are so white people will think his mouth is the tunnel to heaven!
He is the Pope of Punk.
What a hunk.
Hair full of junk.
Catholicism sunk.
This picture's a slam dunk.
It may get ya in a funk.
But below me is where Sinéad will bunk!
I've monstercized him, given him
No need to, he looks like a beedy-eyed demon already! Seriously folks, there wasn't a non-evil looking Pope up to the task?
Now the question I have is whatever he says automatically goes? Now I know about the different types of Christians out there (which is very odd, I mean get your act together all ready), so does this Pope have total say on all Christians, or just Catholics.
Catholics believe the Pope is the Vicar of Christ and is infallible when teaching faith and morals to the entire world. Obviously non Catholics do not believe this so it depends on who you ask.
But everything He says is not infallible. Only when He teaches Ex-Cathedra and speaks from the Chair of St. Peter about issues pertaining to the Faith and Morals. Another thing is He can only give a better understanding of Doctrine already deemed as Dogma and not change or reverse it. So it is funny when i see other Catholics wanting a more liberal Pope so He can change His teachings on abortion, birth Control, homosexual lifestyle and such actually believing they can be changed.
I'm not Catholic and I don't care for Popes - why bow down to someone who hates homosexuals?Must you say such ignorant things?
Piddzilla
04-20-05, 04:59 PM
Catholics believe the Pope is the Vicar of Christ and is infallible when teaching faith and morals to the entire world. Obviously non Catholics do not believe this so it depends on who you ask.
But everything He says is not infallible. Only when He teaches Ex-Cathedra and speaks from the Chair of St. Peter about issues pertaining to the Faith and Morals. Another thing is He can only give a better understanding of Doctrine already deemed as Dogma and not change or reverse it. So it is funny when i see other Catholics wanting a more liberal Pope so He can change His teachings on abortion, birth Control, homosexual lifestyle and such actually believing they can be changed.
I actually agree. I don't really see the point of the discussion about "liberal", "moderate" or "conservative" popes. Was there anyone of the cardinals who was for abortions, condoms or homosexuals? How can a pope go against the fundaments of Catholicism?
There's this famous swedish TV-guy who's homosexual and he's also a catholic (he actually converted to Catholicism). He said that for a pope to actually embrace "all God's children", he needs to go all the way back to the message of Jesus, to who Jesus was and what he said and in fact meant. So, in that way, what homosexual catholics need is an ultra conservative pope. Not new-thinkers like John Paul II and Benedictus XVI.
blibblobblib
04-20-05, 06:43 PM
Must you say such ignorant things?Oh the hypocrisy in this question.
Tacitus
04-20-05, 06:54 PM
http://homepage.tinet.ie/~cubs/pics/protest.gif
Was there anyone of the cardinals who was for abortions, condoms or homosexuals?I'm sure there are Bishops out there who relax their teachings on this but they are not submitting to the will of the Church when they do this. They can be excommunicated if it becomes a problem and they cease to teach their heresies. How can a pope go against the fundaments of Catholicism?
A Pope cannot go against the Dogmas of the Church. Ever. Don't get me wrong, there have been some Popes who led extremely immoral lives but when it came to binding the Teachings of the Church on the faithfull they have yet to reverse their teachings and i personally believe they never will.
There's this famous swedish TV-guy who's homosexual and he's also a catholic (he actually converted to Catholicism). He said that for a pope to actually embrace "all God's children", he needs to go all the way back to the message of Jesus, to who Jesus was and what he said and in fact meant. So, in that way, what homosexual catholics need is an ultra conservative pope. Not new-thinkers like John Paul II and Benedictus XVI.Pope John Paul was very conservative yet always trying to mend the the injuries and pain that the people of the Church caused other faith's. Now Pope Benedict, when He was a Cardinal, was who some would call a Heresy Hunter. He is also very conservative and it only seems to worry so called Catholics who want some of the teachings reversed. Homosexual unions will never be accepted, neither will direct abortions, euthanasia, birth Control, women Priests, etc.
The only thing that may have a chance to change is the ability for Priests to be married. That is dicipline and not Dogma. Actually, in the Eastern Rites Catholic Church, they have married Priests. The Latin Rites Church, which holds the largest of the Catholic population does not.
Piddzilla
04-21-05, 07:38 AM
I'm sure there are Bishops out there who relax their teachings on this but they are not submitting to the will of the Church when they do this. They can be excommunicated if it becomes a problem and they cease to teach their heresies.
Bishops perhaps, but none of the cardinals candidating for The Holy Chair office.
A Pope cannot go against the Dogmas of the Church. Ever. Don't get me wrong, there have been some Popes who led extremely immoral lives but when it came to binding the Teachings of the Church on the faithfull they have yet to reverse their teachings and i personally believe they never will.
Me neither, and that's what I'm talking about. It's like being offered to choose between 80 apples and seriously hoping for a banana to be elected.
Pope John Paul was very conservative yet always trying to mend the the injuries and pain that the people of the Church caused other faith's. Now Pope Benedict, when He was a Cardinal, was who some would call a Heresy Hunter. He is also very conservative and it only seems to worry so called Catholics who want some of the teachings reversed. Homosexual unions will never be accepted, neither will direct abortions, euthanasia, birth Control, women Priests, etc.
The only thing that may have a chance to change is the ability for Priests to be married. That is dicipline and not Dogma. Actually, in the Eastern Rites Catholic Church, they have married Priests. The Latin Rites Church, which holds the largest of the Catholic population does not.
What I meant was that if you are a modern human being but still want to follow the message of Jesus, I think you should listen more to what Jesus said than to what any Pope says.
What you are talking about is exactly what I mean when I'm saying that I don't see the point in discussing liberal or conservative Popes. It's not the Pope who's the problem considering issues like AIDS, abortion, homosexuality and contraceptives, it's the religion itself.
Now, the fact that you mentioned, that the new Pope was a heresy hunter, that is a problem. I read an article today about the brazilian "liberation theology" (don't know the exact english term) and how cardinal Ratzinger used to travel around in Brazil, hunting down catholic priests who were working to raise the level of conciousness of the poor population. In the 1980s the movement grew stronger thanks to the military regime's oppresion of the people and Ratzinger was sent out by John Paul II to lead a modern Inquisition against these heretics, the liberal brazilian catholic priests.
The way I see it, maybe it's good to have a hardliner as Pope. A liberal Pope would make it all look like catholicism is about acceptance of everybody when in fact it's impossible to accept things like homosexuality and contraceptives without going against Dogma. If the gap between the catholic church and tolerant and openminded catholics is brought out in the light, than it's surely much easier to tackle these issues.
Tacitus
04-21-05, 08:51 AM
This is the problem with any sort of Religious discussion - you can't argue against Faith. ;)
Piddzilla
04-21-05, 09:16 AM
This is the problem with any sort of Religious discussion - you can't argue against Faith. ;)
Oh we'll see about that... :D
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/images/artists/gmichael/gm_gallery4.jpg
Tacitus
04-21-05, 09:21 AM
Oh we'll see about that... :D
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/images/artists/gmichael/gm_gallery4.jpg
Ha! I counter that with this -
http://www.btinternet.com/~comme6/saville/True_Faith_a.jpg
Oblique, but I'm betting you get it. :)
blibblobblib
04-21-05, 09:26 AM
It's like being offered to choose between 80 apples and seriously hoping for a banana to be elected.I actually was hoping for a banana to be elected. I mean, come on, all the signs were there!
Piddzilla
04-21-05, 10:32 AM
Ha! I counter that with this -
http://www.btinternet.com/~comme6/saville/True_Faith_a.jpg
Oblique, but I'm betting you get it. :)
Well, of course! Since I'm touched by the hand of God, this true faith of the new Pope order is crystal clear to me.
I actually was hoping for a banana to be elected. I mean, come on, all the signs were there!
I wonder which name the banana Pope would go under... Tarzanius I?
But we all know the cardinals smoked the banana when they realized what enormous support he had among the people. Hence the difficulty to decide the color of the white chimney smoke along with its peculiar, yet familiar, sweet scent....
blibblobblib
04-21-05, 12:11 PM
Pope Benedict Banana Split XVI. Now theres a religious leader for ya.
And tasty to boot. :licklips:
Bishops perhaps, but none of the cardinals candidating for The Holy Chair office. Sorry, when i meant Bishops i meant also the Cardinals. They are all Bishops except Cardinals have a unique job as Bishops around the Pope.
Me neither, and that's what I'm talking about. It's like being offered to choose between 80 apples and seriously hoping for a banana to be elected. But when i say this, i say it out of faith as a Catholic. We believe that a Pope cannot ever teach error when dealing with issues reguarding faith and morals. The Holy Spirit won't allow that. Even those "bad Popes" i mentioned could have easily did some nasty things with the already implemented Doctrines but they remained silent.
What I meant was that if you are a modern human being but still want to follow the message of Jesus, I think you should listen more to what Jesus said than to what any Pope says. I guess it depends on who believes what. The Catholics are supposed to believe the Pope is the Vicar on Earth, as in He has been handed down the keys that were Given to Peter as visible head of the Church. When they Listen to the Church or the Pope when speaking from the Chair, they listen to Jesus. That's what irritates me. They then start to cause alot of trouble within, actually convinced a more liberal Pope will reverse these teachings yet at the same time believing He's the Vicar de Christi.
What you are talking about is exactly what I mean when I'm saying that I don't see the point in discussing liberal or conservative Popes. It's not the Pope who's the problem considering issues like AIDS, abortion, homosexuality and contraceptives, it's the religion itself. Yes, your right. The Pope can only give a better understanding of what is already been given through the Church. A good example is the Dogma "There is no Salvation outside the Catholic Church".
Now, the fact that you mentioned, that the new Pope was a heresy hunter, that is a problem. I read an article today about the brazilian "liberation theology" (don't know the exact english term) and how cardinal Ratzinger used to travel around in Brazil, hunting down catholic priests who were working to raise the level of conciousness of the poor population. In the 1980s the movement grew stronger thanks to the military regime's oppresion of the people and Ratzinger was sent out by John Paul II to lead a modern Inquisition against these heretics, the liberal brazilian catholic priests. I would have to see where this information came from first to comment on it. There is alot of misinformation out there along with misunderstandings. I think these priests were doing or saying something a little more extreme than merely trying to give the poor a conscience.
The way I see it, maybe it's good to have a hardliner as Pope. A liberal Pope would make it all look like catholicism is about acceptance of everybody when in fact it's impossible to accept things like homosexuality and contraceptives without going against Dogma. If the gap between the catholic church and tolerant and openminded catholics is brought out in the light, than it's surely much easier to tackle these issues.You are so right with the rest of this answer of yours Pidzolla.
I dunno, he looks sort of evil.
I dunno, he looks sort of evil.
Never judge a Pope by his cover, Nitz.
Anonymous Last
04-21-05, 04:32 PM
Drop him a line and say hi!
In English, the address is
[email protected]. In Italian:
[email protected].
Mine went a little like this: (Drop it!)
Dear Pope,
I know that you have to be in tight with the man upstairs! So can you please convince him to give me back my super powers. I'll pray a lot if it will help.
Thanks dude!
Your Buddy...
Mr. Last, but you can call me T.J.
Later!
blibblobblib
04-21-05, 04:37 PM
Never judge a Pope by his cover, Nitz.
Thats right. Looks are only banana skin deep.
Piddzilla
04-21-05, 06:54 PM
I would have to see where this information came from first to comment on it. There is alot of misinformation out there along with misunderstandings. I think these priests were doing or saying something a little more extreme than merely trying to give the poor a conscience.
The source is Sydsvenska Dagbladet, april 21st 2005, and the author of the article is the reporter Henrik Jönsson of the "foreign section" of the paper (
[email protected]). The article's in swedish though.
One of the persons interviewed in the article was Leonardo Boff, "the leading liberation theologist of Brazil". He says about Ratzinger (translated from swedish):
"It was he who interrogated me in the Vatican, he who took away my freedom of expression and he who took away my official positon in the Catholic Church" (Not sure about some of the terms, but I think you get what I mean).
The source is Sydsvenska Dagbladet, april 21st 2005, and the author of the article is the reporter Henrik Jönsson of the "foreign section" of the paper (
[email protected]). The article's in swedish though.
One of the persons interviewed in the article was Leonardo Boff, "the leading liberation theologist of Brazil". He says about Ratzinger (translated from swedish):
"It was he who interrogated me in the Vatican, he who took away my freedom of expression and he who took away my official positon in the Catholic Church" (Not sure about some of the terms, but I think you get what I mean).
I checked around and found out that this Leaonardo Boff theologist, apparently is upset that the Pope put a silence on him back in '85 because of his support for a radical liberation theology. Both John Paul II and then Cardinal Ratzinger strongly opposed this liberation theology. The Pope believed that liberation theology was merely communism in disguise and thus having seen what communism did in Europe did not want it exported to South America.
The Vatican is also upset with certain Catholic theologians whose probing into the intellectual minefield of liberation theology threatens to challenge the hierarchy of the Catholic Church itself.
Leonardo Boff is yet another disgruntled Catholic who is now an ex-Priest, who obviously has trouble recognizing the Pope's authority to stamp out new theological ideas that could be very harmful in the future.
Pope John Paul 2 and Liberation Theology (http://www.thefreeman.com/opinion/index.php?fullstory=1&issue=articles_20050416&id=29366)
.
Urban Cowboy
05-14-05, 01:20 PM
Is this new Pope going to be too conservative for the young generation of Catholics today?
Heaven forbid that the new Pope actually acts Catholic. As young Catholics we shouldn't worry about the Pope being to Conservative, but we should worry about us being to liberal for the church.
adidasss
05-18-05, 12:21 PM
From what iv'e heard so far, yes i think he may be. What was the last popes views on Women in the church, abortions and homosexuality?
they can't really change their opinion on those matters....ever..so i don't think he's conservative, John Paul 2 was also conservative if you go by that...
- why bow down to someone who hates homosexuals?
I don't...................that is one of the issues that contributed to, my leaving the catholic church. :yup:
I don't...................that is one of the issues that contributed to, my leaving the catholic church. :yup:
Fortunately, neither does the Catholic Church.
Fortunately, neither does the Catholic Church.
They may not hate homosexuals but they don't welcome with open arms. :(
They may not hate homosexuals but they don't welcome with open arms. :(We do not welcome their lifestyle with open arms but we do the person.
From the CCC:
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. [They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial.] This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.
If only people in some Churches and people did this :(
blibblobblib
05-23-05, 10:32 PM
their condition.:rolleyes:
Tacitus
05-24-05, 09:44 AM
We do not welcome their lifestyle with open arms but we do the person.
Who's this we?
I wonder why it's been 17 years since my last confession....
Who's this we?
I wonder why it's been 17 years since my last confession....I was talking about the Catholics who actually listen to the Church when speaking on the matter's of faith and morals and not Cafeteria Catholics who pick and choose their own.
Tacitus
05-24-05, 04:46 PM
I was talking about the Catholics who actually listen to the Church when speaking on the matter's of faith and morals and not Cafeteria Catholics who pick and choose their own.
I don't want to get drawn into a Religious slanging match, it's unseemly. Just remember not to presume too much about someone you don't actually know, eh?
blibblobblib
05-24-05, 07:03 PM
Who's this we?Yeah i noticed the use of the 'Royal We'. Don't like it. Not one bit.
I don't want to get drawn into a Religious slanging match, it's unseemly. Just remember not to presume too much about someone you don't actually know, eh?
Nor do i, however, i only got involved in this topic simply because of "The Pope Hates Gays" comment. It seemed to me like it was only put in there to bait an argument. How can someone come to a conclusion such as that? Disagreeing with the actions of an individual implies hate? It's ridiculous and i can't sit there and listen to such slander without responding. As for presuming anything i wasn't. It's a fact. Anybody who calls themselves a Catholic yet belives in his/her own morals in contradiction of the constant teaching's of the Magistrium are in fact kidding themselves. They should jump on the non-denom band wagon. No offence to the non-denoms since i know many are very sincere in their beliefs too, yet speaking to the ones i do know, many differ on questions of morality where Catholics should not.
Nor do i, however, i only got involved in this topic simply because of "The Pope Hates Gays" comment. It seemed to me like it was only put in there to bait an argument. How can someone come to a conclusion such as that?
I don't think that it was put there for an argument, It may have been that persons experience as he is Gay, also I have a lot of Gay friends who have been rejected by the Catholic Church. It is nice to see you are not like the so called christian Catholics who rejected my friends. :yup:
Tacitus
05-25-05, 06:41 AM
I see people here putting things in their signature dealing with their opinions and their own moralites on issues such as this one, yet i'm betting i would get hammered if i put a "Marriage is between one man and one woman" or "Abortion is Murder" in mine.
Of course you'd 'get hammered' - by people who disagree, you may even get support from those who agree. Such is life my friend.
Anyway, I know you're only quoting the official Vatican line on the matter and not openly going on the attack. I could respond with a long winded and self-rightous argument which picks holes in the '75 proclamation but here is not the place for it. I could quote Jan Visser and feel smug - you could respond and feel smug. I could tell a story about a close member of my family to attempt to gain the upper hand - you may well be able to do likewise.
Back and forward like a tennis match. Only this one has no tie-break.
As I said, don't presume too much. :)
Anyway, I know you're only quoting the official Vatican line on the matter and not openly going on the attack. I could respond with a long winded and self-rightous argument
Back and forward like a tennis match. Only this one has no tie-break.
Same here. :yup:
Original post deleted at Nebbit's request.
Piddzilla
05-25-05, 08:44 AM
it seems it's always open season on us, cause our views don't sit well with the views of the times.
Meaning:
The times change but the Catholic Church does not. Thus, the Catholic Church is living in the past, is a phenomenon of the past, and therefore irrelevant for a person who desires to live in the present and cope with the modern day of life. At least as long as popes like Benedict XVI sits in the holy chair.
It's so ironic that a church and the progressive rebel it's worshipping seems to have so little in common.
blibblobblib
05-25-05, 11:13 AM
Unless blib can read the hearts of men...I can and yours is black! ;)
To me homosexuality is just another burden to carry, in an already burdended filled world. If anyone thinks my heart doesn't go out to them then they're wrong.
I know several homosexuals and none of them seem burdened by it, many of them embrace it, which i admire in them.
Urban Cowboy
05-27-05, 12:41 PM
Meaning:
The times change but the Catholic Church does not. Thus, the Catholic Church is living in the past, is a phenomenon of the past, and therefore irrelevant for a person who desires to live in the present and cope with the modern day of life. At least as long as popes like Benedict XVI sits in the holy chair.
The church is not living in the past. The church simply does not change its teachings on the whims of the secular puplic. The church's foundation is the bible, which last I checked hasen't changed in quite a while. I rather resent the implication that one can't live according to the teachings of the church in these times. As a moral foundation for so many across the globe the church can not become a source of, in the Pope's words, moral relativism, but must remain as the consistant moral rock that it has been.
Piddzilla
05-27-05, 05:11 PM
The church is not living in the past. The church simply does not change its teachings on the whims of the secular puplic. The church's foundation is the bible, which last I checked hasen't changed in quite a while. I rather resent the implication that one can't live according to the teachings of the church in these times. As a moral foundation for so many across the globe the church can not become a source of, in the Pope's words, moral relativism, but must remain as the consistant moral rock that it has been.
That's what the pope thinks. My guess is that homosexuality is not more uncommon among catholics than among protestants, for instance. Is it me or the pope who's saying they're worse catholics or lesser men than heterosexuals? Are devoted catholics, who also happens to be homosexuals, part of the secular public?
I didn't say you can't live according to the teachings of the church, only that those who use their religion as an excuse to exclude people and things they fear are living in the past. Society (catholics included) is gradually becoming more tolerant against homosexuals who have the same rights and value as heterosexuals. The church does not develop the same kind of tolerance because, as I've said, it's living in the past and wants to live in the past.
I resent bigotry, sexism and homophobia as well as people who let other people (or books) do their thinking for them.
Oh and btw... You're going to Hell! ;)
I resent bigotry, sexism and homophobia as well as people who let other people (or books) do their thinking for them.
Ditto :yup:
Urban Cowboy
05-31-05, 03:07 PM
I resent bigotry, sexism and homophobia as well as people who let other people (or books) do their thinking for them.
Oh and btw... You're going to Hell! ;)
1. Just Beacuse the public at large is more tolerant sure as hell doesn't make the public right. If the church is right, which I belive it is, then why should it change for you or anybody else?
2. I'm not a bigot, sexist, or homophob. I love all people. That doesn't mean I don't disagree with things they do, but I love them none the less. If somebody you loved was doing something you belive to be wrong, isn't it your duty to tell them as much?
3. I may go to hell. That however isn't for you to judge. You didn't become God yesterday, did you?
blibblobblib
05-31-05, 03:28 PM
You didn't become God yesterday, did you?Um...Do you even read the papers? I thought the headline ALL HAIL PIDD THE DIVINE pointed it out quite nicely.
1. Just Because the public at large is more tolerant sure as hell doesn't make the public right. If the church is right, which I belive it is, then why should it change for you or anybody else?
Just because the Church says it, doesn't mean it is right, :nope: thats the great thing about God, He/She gave people a will of their own,:yup: we can decide what is right or not. I'm not sure the Church is right all the time, What if the Church is wrong :eek: the Bible was written by men and we know about us humans we sometimes get it wrong. :yup:
Piddzilla
06-01-05, 07:26 AM
1. Just Beacuse the public at large is more tolerant sure as hell doesn't make the public right. If the church is right, which I belive it is, then why should it change for you or anybody else?
Actually, it does make the public right. It's called democracy. We could of course speculate back and forth about the pros and cons of the popular opinion - I, myself, very often do not support it. But overtime the will of the majority will conquer over the will of the minority when it comes to things like these. And the catholic church will have to take the backseat.
2. I'm not a bigot, sexist, or homophob. I love all people. That doesn't mean I don't disagree with things they do, but I love them none the less. If somebody you loved was doing something you belive to be wrong, isn't it your duty to tell them as much?
I love you and you are wrong.
3. I may go to hell. That however isn't for you to judge. You didn't become God yesterday, did you?
No, not the last time I checked... Anyway, according to my religion you are definately going to hell - which of course do not exist. I'm sending you to Uzbekistan instead.
Tacitus
06-01-05, 07:51 AM
No, not the last time I checked... Anyway, according to my religion you are definately going to hell - which of course do not exist. I'm sending you to Uzbekistan instead.
Excellent! The old Protestant/Catholic debate (including the bigotry which split my country in half and killed thousands over the years).
Some people just aren't content with sending non-believers to the Hot Place - they wanna send other branches of Christianity too.
http://www.n-tv.de/images/200107/2413005_paisley_ian_frau.jpg
Big Ian Says: "I'm sending this woman to Uzbekistan too. She's wearing Papish earrings. Thanks Pid!"
Piddzilla
06-01-05, 08:04 AM
Excellent! The old Protestant/Catholic debate (including the bigotry which split my country in half and killed thousands over the years).
Some people just aren't content with sending non-believers to the Hot Place - they wanna send other branches of Christianity too.
http://www.n-tv.de/images/200107/2413005_paisley_ian_frau.jpg
Big Ian Says: "I'm sending this woman to Uzbekistan too. She's wearing Papish earrings. Thanks Pid!"
Eh, actually, I may be a protestant officially, but when I was referring to "my religion" I was rather talking about religion as in "my opinion". I am almost totally non-religious really. And about the Hot Place - I just think it's fun to send people who seem to believe it exists there. Like Paisley. He's going too.
Tacitus
06-01-05, 08:29 AM
Eh, actually, I may be a protestant officially, but when I was referring to "my religion" I was rather talking about religion as in "my opinion". I am almost totally non-religious really. And about the Hot Place - I just think it's fun to send people who seem to believe it exists there. Like Paisley. He's going too.
I grabbed the wrong end of your stick then.....ohhhh Matron!
This is the very reason that I generally avoid Religion/anti-Religion threads. Believe me, growing up in '70s Belfast with a Protestant father and a Catholic mother was an eye-opener.
Any excuse to post a funny picture of Big Ian's ok in my book though -
http://www.sluggerotoole.com/images/ian_p.jpg
See what I mean? :D
Piddzilla
06-01-05, 08:45 AM
I grabbed the wrong end of your stick then.....ohhhh Matron!
This is the very reason that I generally avoid Religion/anti-Religion threads. Believe me, growing up in '70s Belfast with a Protestant father and a Catholic mother was an eye-opener.
Any excuse to post a funny picture of Big Ian's ok in my book though -
http://www.sluggerotoole.com/images/ian_p.jpg
See what I mean? :D
:eek: Yes...
It's easy to avoid Religion/anti-Religion threads as long as they don't cross the border to being about things concerning society and the people living in it. Then it becomes politics in a way... And then I'm there! :)
http://www.sluggerotoole.com/images/ian_p.jpg
See what I mean? :D
:yup:
Urban Cowboy
06-01-05, 04:00 PM
Just because the Church says it, doesn't mean it is right, :nope: thats the great thing about God, He/She gave people a will of their own,:yup: we can decide what is right or not. I'm not sure the Church is right all the time, What if the Church is wrong :eek: the Bible was written by men and we know about us humans we sometimes get it wrong. :yup:
You are right. I said "If the church is right, which I belive it is." I do belive the bible and church are correct. I may be wrong. I'll find out when I die. Untill then I will live my life according to what I think is right. That's all I can do.
Urban Cowboy
06-01-05, 04:08 PM
Actually, it does make the public right. It's called democracy. We could of course speculate back and forth about the pros and cons of the popular opinion - I, myself, very often do not support it. But overtime the will of the majority will conquer over the will of the minority when it comes to things like these. And the catholic church will have to take the backseat.
First,The entire world isn't a democracy, and the Chuch certainly isn't. Second, in a democracy the majority rules, that by no means makes it right. Last, my point is the church can't worry about making people happy. It must only deal with following principles of God and the Bible. If the masses of the US and Europe leave, so be it. The Church will be in the same place, and is always willing to accept everyone back.
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