Which is scarier: reason, or obsession?

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I concluded that I didn't find aliens particularly scary because they're usually portrayed as intelligent, and usually posess some degree of reason. Ghosts and other supernatural beings, however, are usually obsessive and single-minded. For whatever reason, I find this a great deal more frightening.


I think probably the best alien film I ever saw—possibly the best ever made—was The Thing from Another World (1951), otherwise popularly known as The Thing. It had a B-grade cast--Kenneth Tobey as a USAF pilot and ranking military officer at a remote weather station in the frozen north inhabited by military and scientists. Dewey Martin is a NCO crew chief, Douglas Spencer is reporter, Margaret Sheridan provides the love interest to leading man Tobey, and a young beginning actor James Arness as The Thing. What really sets this low-budget film apart is that it’s the only sci-fi film reportedly directed by Howard Hawks. Hawks takes only a production credit for the movie, but as one critic said, “His filmmaking style transcends Christian Nyby's nominal direction: rapid-fire, overlapping dialogue, an ensemble of comrades whose professionalism is tempered by wisecracks, and unsentimental female characters (embodied by feisty romantic interest Margaret Sheridan) recall Hawks's signature works.”

As is the case in all the best horror movies, you never get a good look at the monster, other than to see he’s a really big humanoid type. His human adversaries are far from perfect. After finding a flying saucer embedded in arctic ice (the scene of airmen and scientists forming a big circle around the edge of the vessel they can barely seen under a large sheet of refrozen ice is priceless!), they accidentally destroy the spacecraft while trying to melt the ice with thermal explosives. But they do manage to chop out and take back a block of ice containing one of the aliens who was thrown clear in the crash. In a later encounter, one of the humans falls backwards over a cot and breaks his arm! Meanwhile, the alien seems to survive anything, even an attack by sled dogs that tears off one arm (he then simply grows a replacement).

The film is great at building suspense, as in one scene with Martin uses a geiger counter to follow the Thing’s radioactive trail to a large storage box. As others prepare their weapons, Martin throws open the front panel of the box—and a dead husky falls out!

I was just a kid when I first saw that movie at a Saturday afternoon matinee in a theater chocked full of us rugrats with our boxes of popcorn. And when that dog tumbled out, every kid jumped about a foot out of his seat! Man, popcorn rained down in that theater like an arctic blizzard!!



For shizzle. I've never seen the original because I like to eat fast food and listen to books on tape. Maybe I'll give it a shot.
For maximum effect, watch it at night. Alone. With all the lights out.

It's so moody and suspenseful that I can only watch it during the day or at least with the lights on and someone at least moving around the house in a normal fashion.

It may seem to start slow, but be patient because it reveals the events behind the house's evil reputation and establishes the characters of the people who are to meet there.



I'll have to say obsession over the unknown easily. That said, it depends on the person really, don't it? If you're who's unsettled by atomosphere and creepy fables as opposed to visceral and horrific images, then you're on the more who lean towards the whole 'unknown' concept; you know, the things we can't quite fathom or relate to.

If anything, this type of fear is a reflection on societies ideologies. Whenever ethnic minorities enter a particular country, then these minorities are usual subject to abuse and caution due to the fact that they aren't familiar within the norms of that particular society.

Since I was born and raised in London, I don't deal with that fear factor. However, I do find myself disturbed by the more 'slasher' types of horror symbols. I'm not talking about the Michael Myers or Jason Voorhes, but the Wolf Creek's Micks and Psycho's Norman Bates of the films.

Characters that may present themselves a certain way so that you open up a bit, but then turn out to be the complete opposite and most horrific type of person imaginable. That's what scares me. In fact, those characters scare me so much that I am cautious about accepting tea or any type of beaverage from a stranger's house.



What it comes down to is that I prefer suspense over some Gotcha! that jumps at you out of the dark. One of the scariest scenes I ever witnessed was in--of all things!-- Abbott & Costello Meet Frankenstein (1948), starring the burlesque duo along with Glenn Strange (later Miss Kitty’s bartender on the Gunsmoke TV series) as The Monster, Bela Lugosi as Dracula, and Lon Chaney Jr. reprising his Wolfman role as Larry Talbot. The scene occurs early in the film when Talbot rents an apartment from Abbott & Costello and, knowing the full moon is on the rise, makes them promise to lock him in and not open the door until morning. The comics leave, locking the door behind them, and Talbot instantly begins his transformation as the moon lights the night sky. But by that time, Abbott notices they forgot to give Talbot any clean towels and sends a reluctant Costello to make the delivery. Werewolf Talbot hears Costello’s key in the lock and ducks behind cover so as to surprise his prey upon entry. What follows is a cat-and-mouse stalking as Costello searches room by room for Talbot who is always a step behind him as the Wolfman. Now, even as a kid, I knew the Wolfman wasn’t going to kill off Costello, especially so early in the movie. But the prolonged suspense of near encounters and close misses was truly frightening. Costello escapes, of course, never knowing he was ever so close to supernatural horror, but that scene stuck in my memory and still gave me a thrill when I saw it later as an adult.

What I don’t like to see in films are pools and splatters of blood, internal organs, and severed body parts. I’ve seen that in real life, so the movie version is just disgusting.



I don't think anybody liked or were scared by the new The Haunting.



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I recall being frightened one time by a movie, Hitchcock's "Psycho" when the chair is turned revealing the skeleton. I was startled and jumped. Didn't think it was a great movie; liked "the Uninvited" and "the Haunting" with Julie Harris much better but they weren;t scary.



A system of cells interlinked
I recall being frightened one time by a movie, Hitchcock's "Psycho" when the chair is turned revealing the skeleton. I was startled and jumped. Didn't think it was a great movie; liked "the Uninvited" and "the Haunting" with Julie Harris much better but they weren't scary.

You didn't think Psycho was a great movie? Or, the ones you listed after that? Psycho is indeed a GREAT movie. Normally, I wouldn't state things that seem like an opinion as fact, but, in the case of Psycho, it is indeed, a fact. Technically and historically, it is a great movie.
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That's right, I didn't think 'Psycho' was great and I did like 'the uninvited' and 'the Haunting' better,



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I remembered another movie that scared me. 'the Others'.The best 'ghost' movies, for my money were #1 The 'Uninvited' and #2 'the Haunting'. Neither scared me, as did 'Psycho' and 'the Others'. Incidently, I've noticed 'the Haunting' mentioned several times, both here and elsewhere and am curious to know which one is meant.I saw the one with Julie Harris, Clare Bloom, Richard Johnson and Russ Tamblyn and put it on my all time best picture list, I saw one with Vincent Price ( also based on Shirley Jackson's story, 'the Haunting of Hill House' ) and thought it a very poor film. I'm guessing there was, at least one more (later) version.



I think that one's imagination has a lot to do with the thought process here. If you are normally skeptical about these things Aliens, Ghosts, unexplained, etc... then it may be a bit hard to have a movie about these things jar you, but if you have had an "experience", or are just more open to these things then the "scariness" factor must increase on a different level.
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The problem with The Grudge and The Ring is that there is no satisfying the ghost, evil spirit, whatever you want to call them.

I suspect this is based in the difference between the American and Japanese culture.

I prefer there to be some resolution that can come into play.

What REALLY creeps me out is when there are evil children as in The Ring and no possible resolution.

What was the start of this problem? How can it be worked out and brought to an end.

So far the answer is there is no discernible start and it can't ever be worked out or brought to an end.
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So, this was a very interesting discussion that I totally let slide. I'll kinda-sorta try to revive it now. Not that it's the kind of argument where one expects to persuade anyone. It's just about explaining our reasons, really. And since my girlfriend's out of town, these sorts of things can now fill my day.

I disagree. Can you - and this is not accusatory, merely a challenge - name a movie, whose intention is to scare or thrill, where someone appealed, successfully, to an alien? I can't. However, I can name multiple stories in which a ghost was sympathetic to people other than their intended victim. For example, Stir of Echoes, Ghost, The Eye, The Sixth Sense.
Nothing other than the one Pyro mentioned so long ago. But then again, I'm thinking more of the abstract here: if so-and-so took place in real life, which would scare me more? And anyway, there are obviously many shows in which aliens are benign to begin with, though this doesn't meet with your "whose intention is to scare or thrill" qualifier.

So, anyway, I guess it depends on what we're talking about, specifically: actual depictions, or the idea? I'd intended to discuss the latter, if only because imagining what it might be like is a big part of what makes these ideas scary.

My own personal phobias aside, aliens have the potential to be the scariest things on film because of this principle alone. An alien can look as scary as any demon, ghost or monster; but an alien has only one, entirely self-motivated goal: probe/mutilate or, if you're lucky, impregnate. A person can physically prevent an alien via bodily harm, but if you get in the way, you're just as likely to get something shoved inside you. Not to mention, they are reactionary, whereas ghosts wait eternally for some poor sap's soul to wander into their web.
The potential single-mindedness of aliens is actually something that I find (relatively) comforting compared to ghosts. A ghost may want nothing more than to torment you. The aliens you describe, horrific though they may be, have a specific purpose which is likely to harm you in an incidental manner. It is then a matter of either not intruding on that purpose, or defending yourself. With a ghost, it can all be arbitrary, and it's entirely possible you have no means of defense.

A really good analogy is swimming. I'm a little spooked by the ocean, sometimes for reasons I can't quite put into words. But one reason I can put into words is that we're simply out of our element there. We move slower and more awkwardly, can't see what's going on beneath us, etc. We're on other creatures' turf, and everything is harder and slower as a result.

That's how I feel about ghosts: we're playing by their rules. Everything I've learned in my life about avoiding harm is completely thrown out the window.

Aliens are both obsessed and intelligent. You just can't beat that. Not that they are always scary on film, but they have the inherent potential to be the scarier of the two.
Well, they may or may not be obsessed. But even if they are, they're still constrained by physical limitations. A ghost may have, theoretically, no meaningful limit on its power. What can an alien do to you that a psychopath can't?



You're a Genius all the time
Ghosts and monsters and whatnot typically don't do a lot for me, but I think the idea of a systematic extermination of the human race by otherworldly forces that are intellectually and technologically superior to ours is the most terrifying thing I can imagine. Alien invasion type movies, even the silly ones, always trigger some sort of indescribable fear in my brain. Maybe reason is scarier to me because I feel that's one of the only advantages a human being would have over a supernatural entity or something. I don't know. The best, albeit very goofy, example I can think of is in Independence Day, when the President begs that alien "What do you want us to do?" and the alien just responds "Die". I mean, what are you supposed to say to that?

Another good, geeky example of this is the overarching plot in The X-Files. I'm not going to describe The X-Files mythos here, but that's the kind of thing that just scares the bejeezus out of me. I guess it feels more "realistic".

I don't think we, as a species, would ever be able to deal with a balls to the walls alien attack. If the aliens were at all intent on destroying us, enslaving us, eating us, etc - I think they just would, you know? Alien invasion movies always seem to have such cop-out endings like "Oh, that's right, aliens can't touch water". Whereas in "real life", those kinds of lucky breaks probably wouldn't exist. At least your typical ghost/monster flick usually plays by some set of rules where there are clear cut ways of disposing of said ghost/monster.

By any criteria, really, I'd say a "reasonable monster" is scarier than something fueled by desire or need.



Aliens are the 'unknown entity' and the unknown scares the hell out of people. I don't know whether I would consider them obsessed because we don't know too much about them because it's really all speculation, isn't it? In saying that, reason can also be scary, as in say, Hannibal Lecter. Monsters and zombies aren't considered really 'scary' because they don't exist. I find that the scariest things are what you don't know and what can play with your mind.



I am half agony, half hope.
I have more thoughts, but this post is getting too long as it is. So, the question is: which is generally scarier to you in cinema, and why: intelligent threats like aliens, or the unknown, like ghosts?
I find ghosts scarier than aliens. Ghosts are just people that have gone over to the other side, but that means they probably keep the irrationality and twisted logic that they might have had in life. Plus, they know you and can mess you up psychologically. Aliens, like you say, are hopefully more intelligent and can be reasoned with.
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You guys still get scared watching movies? Aliens? Ghosts? How I'd love to see either one in real life.
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Bright light. Bright light. Uh oh.
I know many people who will tell you straight up that there are no ghosts or aliens, so how can they scare anybody? I realize these people tend to be self-important because they are ones who say there is no God and we are alone in a cold universe but that somehow doesn't scare them because at least they, and we, are alive and able to share all these thoughts and feelings about creatures which our own minds have created. The fact that it's all over within a twinkling of an eye doesn't rattle them in the slightest because their acceptance of true reality only makes them stronger and somehow makes them want to live life to the fullest.

I will admit that I'm not referring to anyone here, but if I seem to be, come forth and tell me in what ways I may be correct and in what ways I am full of BS. Anyway, now that I seem off-topic, how about I mention that I (hesitantly) agree with rufnek that humanity is scarier than both aliens and ghosts. Many serial killers have claimed to be moved to do their exploits by either "aliens" or "ghosts" in one form or another, but the only killers we're able to recognize is this world are the human ones. My vote for the scariest movie ever made (and I recommend it to you, rufnek) is The Innocents. It was made two years prior to the original The Haunting. It'a also in B&W and has awesome use of sound, but it doesn't "pump up the volume" to scare you as The Haunting does. The Innocents is about ghosts, and the fact that the ghosts could very well be real (I actually believe they are) or that they are just the figment of a repressed, religious spinster doesn't make them any less "real". It's the human mind which gives credence and life to both aliens and ghosts. The concept of an alien or a ghost who somehow doesn't interact with humans seems anathema to the movies and perhaps humankind itself.

There is also the concept of aliens who come here to visit us and the ones we encounter out in space. They seem to fall into two separate categories, although it's not all cut-and-dried. When they come here, we tend to be on our home turf and are able to use our unique environment to defeat them. However, out in space, in their natural surroundings, we tend to have much more trouble dealing with them, and I believe that makes sense, in general.

I'm going to cut this short, but as far as scary goes, one of the most disturbing things I've ever read is the Book of Revelation, the final chapter of the New Testament of the Bible. It paints a picture of the destruction of our present world. However, it's apparently open to interpretation who is actually responsible for this destruction which ultimately creates another paradise on Earth. Are the destructors Humankind, "ghosts", "aliens", the "creators of this world" or a combination of all of them? That's one of the things which really scares people: not knowing who they're really dealing with and not understanding what it is they want. See, movies really aren't all that different than real life. I know quite a few people who seem to me as relatable as a ghost or an alien, but if you somehow are able to understand their story, it usually removes the fear. The problem arises when you get to understand someone and then you actually realize how they could destroy so much life that they need to be locked away to protect us from him/her and vice versa.
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there's a frog in my snake oil
I just felt this genuine 'Blair Witch alien' belonged here

(Plus it'll feed one of OG's other obsessions, if he drops by )

PS I don't want to know what it's thinking...
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I think by reason Yoda meant logic and the forethought of planning, not necessarily a back story or motivation.
yep.I agree with you!