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Of course....the theme is part of the story. That's exactly what I'm getting at.
Nice try, tho.
The Importance of Soundtrack
Nice try, tho.
This seems needlessly contentious, let's dial it back please.
As a neutral reader, it seems pretty obvious to me that there's not a lot of daylight, if any, between "thematic reasons" and "make you feel something." They're definitely not mutually exclusive.
As a neutral reader, it seems pretty obvious to me that there's not a lot of daylight, if any, between "thematic reasons" and "make you feel something." They're definitely not mutually exclusive.
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What I was getting at is that film scoring isn't exclusively about emotions, but also about expressing certain ideas. Metaphorically speaking, the music doesn't always appeal exclusively to the heart, sometimes it can have a message for the mind (i.e., an idea that doesn't necessarily convey any emotion)
I agree, and that's what I took from it. But I think you guys were probably talking past each other a bit. Or at least jumping to an assumed disagreement that may not (or may!) exist. Might as well clarify and ask first and only fight if it's necessary. 
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I wonder if people even mean the same thing by the word "soundtrack." When I think of thematic soundtrack, I think primarily of the use of preexisting music (like pop music), usually with a touch of irony. But I can easily imagine someone using "soundtrack" to mean just preexisting music, just original score, or both.
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I agree, and that's what I took from it. But I think you guys were probably talking past each other a bit. Or at least jumping to an assumed disagreement that may not (or may!) exist.
Back to my earlier point, a leitmotif in a movie score can be used to summon an emotion, but it can also be a reference to specific themes or ideas that don't necessarily conjure an emotion.
The filmmakers I tend to admire most are those whose films are primarily cerebral, rather than emotional, movies that engage the mind without necessarily trying to summon an emotional response. And of course there are filmmakers who are quite good at making movies that are both cerebral and emotionally appealing.
Not all film scores are about telling you how you should feel
Exactly
Using music as an ironic counterpoint is just one of many and obvious ways music isnt used to make audiences feel a specific way.
And even when it is used as an emotional cue, it is frequently not so simple to just say 'this music makes the scene happy' or 'this makes the scene ominous'. What exactly is Leone's Good Bad and Ugly theme meant to convey? Or the use of Wagner in Apocalypse Now? It's not always so simple as reducing a soundtrack to holding the audience's hand so they know exactly how to respond.
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The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly gave each of the characters their own theme that somehow fit each one. When they appeared on screen, you just instinctively hum to it because it’s so memorable and not in an emotional way, but rather in visual cues. Morricone was great at that. His music captured a scene, or a person, and often, when it played during certain scenes, you knew it was cue that sh*t was about to go down.
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The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly gave each of the characters their own theme that somehow fit each one. When they appeared on screen, you just instinctively hum to it because it’s so memorable and not in an emotional way, but rather in visual cues. Morricone was great at that. His music captured a scene, or a person, and often, when it played during certain scenes, you knew it was cue that sh*t was about to go down.
Yes, that is one element of it. And it also evokes the films landscapes, and the feeling of myth, and it can feel vaguely threatening.
It's a nest of emotional and thematic cues. It's not simply to clarify to the audience what emotional response is suppose to happen.
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It also should be noted that even in more obvious cases of using music to communicate specific things to the audience (let's use the example of Jaws, since it has already been mentioned), that Spielberg is already doing an awful lot of the emotional heavy lifting both with his camera movements, shot compositions and editing to signify danger. He's not relying on the Williams score for this, but instead using it to heighten what is already there. A good director doesnt need any score at all to express the intended emotions. It can be read in the film itself.
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One of the greatest scores ever for enhancing the internal emotions of a film is Einhorns Voices of Light, for The Passion of Joan of Arc. Few pieces of music so perfectly line up with a movies visuals that for me it is almost unthinkable watching it without this soundtrack.
But that said, even without any music at all, Dreyer's film is already dripping with Falconetti's tears. It doesn't need anything else to tell the viewer how to feel. The music only makes it that much more emotionally dynamic.
But that said, even without any music at all, Dreyer's film is already dripping with Falconetti's tears. It doesn't need anything else to tell the viewer how to feel. The music only makes it that much more emotionally dynamic.
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I'll bring up this one. Not many movies have overtures anymore. This one is from that heavyweight biblical epic of the late '50's, Ben Hur. Assuming that you went to the drive-in to see the biggest movie in the world, if you knew nothing going in, the first image and 7 notes should inform you that you have been clocked back 2000 years and that it's going to be heavy, so use the rest of this overture to get your snacks and get back to the car. The remainder of the 7 minutes gives you a musical introduction to the plot line and characters. Be sure to hit the rest room because this movie is 3 1/2 hours and will cover a lot of biblical turf. The quick, opening 7 note salvo tells you exactly where and when you are.
It's a bit like those opening words in the first Star Wars movie....Long ago in a galaxy far away.....in the sense that it uses something very quick and compact to substitute for what could be a lot of narrative.
It's a bit like those opening words in the first Star Wars movie....Long ago in a galaxy far away.....in the sense that it uses something very quick and compact to substitute for what could be a lot of narrative.
Last edited by skizzerflake; 2 weeks ago at 06:16 PM.
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Exactly
Using music as an ironic counterpoint is just one of many and obvious ways music isnt used to make audiences feel a specific way.
And even when it is used as an emotional cue, it is frequently not so simple to just say 'this music makes the scene happy' or 'this makes the scene ominous'. What exactly is Leone's Good Bad and Ugly theme meant to convey? Or the use of Wagner in Apocalypse Now? It's not always so simple as reducing a soundtrack to holding the audience's hand so they know exactly how to respond.
Using music as an ironic counterpoint is just one of many and obvious ways music isnt used to make audiences feel a specific way.
And even when it is used as an emotional cue, it is frequently not so simple to just say 'this music makes the scene happy' or 'this makes the scene ominous'. What exactly is Leone's Good Bad and Ugly theme meant to convey? Or the use of Wagner in Apocalypse Now? It's not always so simple as reducing a soundtrack to holding the audience's hand so they know exactly how to respond.
Obviously, there is music in the movie, but I don't think anything about it is supposed to be about "feeling" anything at all.
I'll bring up this one. Not many movies have overtures anymore. This one is from that heavyweight biblical epic of the late '50's, Ben Hur. Assuming that you went to the drive-in to see the biggest movie in the world.
The roadshow version of movies was given a "special" kind of treatment to set them apart from the regular movies, and often commanded premium prices as a result:
In a roadshow release, a large-scale epic film would open in larger cities in an engagement much like a theatrical musical, often with components such as an overture, first act, intermission, entr'acte, second act, and exit music. The overture, distinguished from the main title music, was played before the beginning of the film, while the lights were still up and the curtains were still closed. As the lights dimmed, the overture ended, the curtains opened, and the film began with its main title music and opening credits. The exit music was played after the film had ended, following the closing credits, while the auditorium lights were on and the curtains were closed. Many movie theaters until the 1980s had curtains which covered the screen, and which would open when the show actually began and close when it ended.
Some roadshow scheduling mimicked the performance schedule of live theatre such as Broadway theatre. Wednesdays, Saturdays, and Sundays would have two screenings, while during the rest of the week, the films would be shown only once a day.
Some roadshow scheduling mimicked the performance schedule of live theatre such as Broadway theatre. Wednesdays, Saturdays, and Sundays would have two screenings, while during the rest of the week, the films would be shown only once a day.
I find it highly unlikely that drive-ins would have played the roadshow versions of the kind of movies that would have had an overture to begin with. I'm not saying it absolutely never happened, but it is definitely very unlikely.
The roadshow version of movies was given a "special" kind of treatment to set them apart from the regular movies, and often commanded premium prices as a result:
Roadshow releases were very much supposed to feel like an event, not just another night at the movies.
The roadshow version of movies was given a "special" kind of treatment to set them apart from the regular movies, and often commanded premium prices as a result:
Roadshow releases were very much supposed to feel like an event, not just another night at the movies.
Uhhhh. I was there. I actually saw it that way. As a kid, I was highly impressed since an overture made it seem important.
Last edited by skizzerflake; 1 week ago at 11:30 PM.
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