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I do and don't agree with Rico. There is a diversity in women's singing voices its just there are very few good alternative ones. I guess that's why I prefer male artist much, much more then female artists.
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Im not saying girls cant have have interesting voices, there are some that do. I know that only one guy has won american idol so far. But you have to admit that ALOT of girls have that good voice thats always good but not anything special, if you follow me.
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I'll be rooting for Taylor next week...he's the total entertainment package. Go Taylor!

But, I hope Kat still does well. She has alot of potential if someone can get her to tone it down and loosen up....and she's a natural on the screen. She shined in those silly car commercials.

......
Originally Posted by Revenant
I do and don't agree with Rico. There is a diversity in women's singing voices its just there are very few good alternative ones. I guess that's why I prefer male artist much, much more then female artists.
As far as what I prefer...it's funny...it doesn't matter to me in every genre if it's a male or female voice as long as it strikes a cord with me....except in rock. I'm a little ashamed to admit I prefer male rockers (voices) to female for the most part.


Originally Posted by Uncle Rico
Im not saying girls cant have have interesting voices, there are some that do. I know that only one guy has won american idol so far. But you have to admit that ALOT of girls have that good voice thats always good but not anything special, if you follow me.
I think I know what your saying...lately there are alot of girls that do seem to sound the same on the radio. But, it's also a business were image can propell a career and I wonder if women are pigeon holed too....especially in the pop genre. I wonder if a female had a unique voice like a Joe Cocker or even Dave Matthews, how well she would be accepted or even be given the chance.

Nice topic though Rico.

Where's Thimillin...I love to get your input on this subject since your a voice actor.



Originally Posted by Aniko
I think I know what your saying...lately there are alot of girls that do seem to sound the same on the radio. But, it's also a business were image can propell a career and I wonder if women are pigeon holed too....especially in the pop genre.

I wonder if a female had a unique voice like a Joe Cocker or even Dave Matthews, how well she would be accepted or even be given the chance.

That is my biggest frustration with female artists nowadays. Pop genre is indeed the biggest offender for culling originality in women singers. You look at the charts and its nye-on impossible to find a normal looking woman. I consider pop music highly sexist. For men their musical talent is important, for women it appears that the aestethics are more important then the music. Not that the men don't get the demand to look good but it is not a sin oif they don't as long as they are talented.

The media has a lot to blame for this. Why oh why can't the music sector get back to the music rather then behind the scenes?

I want talent not bimbo's.



Female assassin extraordinaire.
alright i'm back!

i've avoided this thread because I had been behind on amer idol and, in thinking about it overall, I think I'd deliberately fallen short on watching taped episodes because no one has truly, truly, truly thrilled me. everyone is flawed in some way, even Taylor, he's just the best of the bunch (of the bunch left, not the whole bunch we started with).

anyway, i didn't want to come in here without getting up to snuff. it's already tues as it is so i'm assuming the winner's episode already happened, but i just got home and have only watched up to seeing the last cut to Taylor and Katharine and after hearing Elliot is gone am SO fine with that.

TOPICS ...

Elliot, I've always agreed he's intensely boring. I think he just hasn't had enough sex and broken hearts. He's a sap. Thus, he performs like one. He lacks confidence and the devil may care attitude required for the voice he has and the songs he sings. He needs to raise an eyebrow and smirk and have us believe it. Instead he sings earnestly in the same tone, hits all his fabulous notes, wears the same clothes, and does pretty much the same thing every time.

He's like Chris Daughtry, who began to disappoint me after about the 6th performance. You CANNOT keep singing the same types of songs in the same style you have to show true diversity and complexity, an intuitive understanding of MUSIC as a whole, so that you can sing anything no matter what your way but in the style with respect to the music as it was designed. Turning a jazz song into a rock song does not equal ingenuity, it means you are a one trick pony.

Which, my friends, Katharine also is. When she first began, she wasn't trying too hard, and was there for the music. As time passed, she began to annoy me intensely, and I realized it was because she got cocky. She thinks because she's young, pretty, has training, and a flexible voice that she's in the bag. She isn't. It's not that she's cold and arrogant, it's that she thought she could mess with every song her way, deliver histrionics, and think people would be impressed. And I suppose they would have been if she were as good as Aretha Franklin, but she isn't, and she didn't deliver.

As time passed I realized Katharine is inconsistent and unreliable for a clean, fabulously delivered song with no mistakes and entertainment appeal. Or rather, she's consistent and reliable for mishaping a song, disrespecting its vision, and making perpetual googoo eyes at the camera. Everyone applauds her confidence with the camera but she began to make a huge failing that is causing her performance as a whole to suffer - she's singing to the camera, not the audience. That is a BIG mistake. The audience in front of you is ALWAYS more important than anything else. You please them first, then you worry about the camera.

Do you realize that her best performance of ALL TIME was "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" and she spent about 90% of it NOT looking at the camera? That was exactly why she hit those notes cleanly, smoothly, with depth, just the right amount of bravado, etc. She relaxed utterly and gave herself over to the music and the performance, instead of making it all about her and looking cute.

I liked the sound of her singing KT Tunstall's Black Horse/Cherry Tree but I couldn't stand watching her perform it. She was humping the stage, which was totally inappropriate. Hop around, sit on the edge, sit on a stool get up and dance, but don't half kneed and bounce like that, sheezus.

Between her and Taylor, Taylor is reliable. I adore him, he's talented, but I don't think he's shown that huge of a range on the show. But he is reliable, and good at what he does, and i'd take him over Katharine any day.

...

Uncle Rico's statement re: men having more diverse voices ...

If you mean you are used to hearing more diverse voices in men than women, ok, that's a matter of the music you're exposing yourself to (ie, that's your environment and your choice, not a reflection on women). So if you go online and listen to certain samples of artists, or see certain stuff on MTV or hear it on the radio, I see what you mean.

If you literally mean men have richer, more complex voices than women you are nuts. There are women with voices as deep as a man's and men with voices as high and clear as a woman's. There is no way to quantify which is better or more this or that, based on gender.

For those who prefer to listen to men sing rock, bust out Janis Joplin, or one of my favorites and more recent - Joan Osborne. NO, throw out "What if God was One of Us" and throw on "Right Hand Man." That sucker will sear your pants it's so hot and raw. Then of course there's Melissa Etheridge. Throw out Sheryl Crowe and the nasally counterparts. There are whiskeyvoiced houndoghungry singer females.

For diversity think Ella Fitzgerald who was clear as a bell, Aretha who can shriek and give a blues howl raw as a man's, Nina Simone who very often sounded like a man with her guttural, soulful moaning.

Then come talk to me about "diversity in the female voice" sucka!!

Oh, and in voiceover, women are most often employed to do far more characters than males because their voice is capable of more flexibility and camouflage. Ie, it is easy to recognize a male playing multiple characters as being the same person, but harder to recognize a female playing multiple characters as being the same person.

Women are often hired to play multiple parts in one script, and more specifically will play ALL of the following in the SAME tv show or cartoon, etc: old woman, young boy, young girl, middle-aged woman/mother. Ithey are specifically asked to do young male roles because adult males cannot do these as easily as adult females can).

so ... HAH!
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Originally Posted by thmilin
Do you realize that her best performance of ALL TIME was "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" and she spent about 90% of it NOT looking at the camera? That was exactly why she hit those notes cleanly, smoothly, with depth, just the right amount of bravado, etc. She relaxed utterly and gave herself over to the music and the performance, instead of making it all about her and looking cute.

I liked the sound of her singing KT Tunstall's Black Horse/Cherry Tree but I couldn't stand watching her perform it. She was humping the stage, which was totally inappropriate. Hop around, sit on the edge, sit on a stool get up and dance, but don't half kneed and bounce like that, sheezus.

Between her and Taylor, Taylor is reliable. I adore him, he's talented, but I don't think he's shown that huge of a range on the show. But he is reliable, and good at what he does, and i'd take him over Katharine any day.
It's taken me awhile to get back here, but...

I'm so glad Taylor won....as you said Thmilin, he's reliable. He's also the type of performer that continued to grow on me. Even when Simon hated his dancing and quirky endings...I liked seeing him get into his entertainment mode.

Katharine will probably do better in the long run as a runner up. At least now her options are open to even go into other areas, not just music. With her beautiful, photogenic face and sweet smile, she won't starve.

As far as the last show went. There were moments I loved...like Paris singing with Al Jareau. And, some very odd moments...like the paring of Meatloaf and Katharine...but by the end it worked for me. And a few moments that were irritating...like Toni Braxton either forgetting her words or just not singing...and acting like a ho trying to do a standing lap dance with Taylor. She was completely inappropriate for the night. Not sure if I was crazy about Mary J. Blige over-taking the song that was suppose to be a duet with Elliot. Eventhough he's boring to me...after all those weeks of commitment, he deserved his moment in the spotlight for the last time, instead of taking a back seat.

Prince...I'm not sure why he was the only professional to sing a solo and to be spotlighted the way he was...but boy was he good.



Originally Posted by Revenant
That is my biggest frustration with female artists nowadays. Pop genre is indeed the biggest offender for culling originality in women singers. You look at the charts and its nye-on impossible to find a normal looking woman. I consider pop music highly sexist. For men their musical talent is important, for women it appears that the aestethics are more important then the music. Not that the men don't get the demand to look good but it is not a sin oif they don't as long as they are talented.

The media has a lot to blame for this. Why oh why can't the music sector get back to the music rather then behind the scenes?

I want talent not bimbo's.
This whole subject is a huge soap box for me. Unfortunatley, there are also have women who turn into bimbos...like Toni Braxton did on the Idol finale...and women that will sing about their 'Humps' ...who are desperate for any type of attention and think it's ok to act like and present yourself as a ho. I think it just sends the wrong message to young girls who are easily influenced. Anything that causes a stir will whip the greedy dogs of the media (all types..from rag mags to music)...into a feeding frenzy. They really don't care what message is being sent to young girls as long as they make money. I recently saw a bio of Jessica Simpson...dear lord that's another rant.

But I think that's one reason Katharine made it so far. I think there are mom's out there that like her image and see her as s good role model. If you think about it...all of the women that have won Idol, Kelly Clarkson, Fantasia and Carrie Underwood are all possitive role models. Hopefully, none of them will grow into a Jessica Simpson.



Ok, this thread is probably about dead but some final notes... I would have loved a Taylor/Elliot final. Those were the two who really felt the music. Katherine is very attractive and has a great voice but she doesn't feel it like the guys. Like one of the pros said "It comes so easy for her, she forgets what the song is about."

What a run Elliot made. He was the dark horse who came from the back of the pack. His confidence and joy of performing was growing every week. A little, funny looking guy who darn near knocked off the big guns...with only his voice.

I still say Bucky was the most consistent and most underrated. He sounded and looked great (with confidence) in the final show. He'd do great in Southern/Country rock and he seems like a nice guy to boot.

I like Taylor, not so much at first but he grew on me. He's fun to watch and enjoys what he's doing. But this season didn't produce another Kelly Clarkson. No season has. I believe she's a bona fide star of considerable magnitude, with or without AI. Timewarp her back to 1968 and she has the chops to do what Janis Joplin did. And more, a Ronstadt/Joplin lovechild.
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Originally Posted by Aniko
It's taken me awhile to get back here, but...

I'm so glad Taylor won....as you said Thmilin, he's reliable. He's also the type of performer that continued to grow on me. Even when Simon hated his dancing and quirky endings...I liked seeing him get into his entertainment mode.

Katharine will probably do better in the long run as a runner up. At least now her options are open to even go into other areas, not just music. With her beautiful, photogenic face and sweet smile, she won't starve.

As far as the last show went. There were moments I loved...like Paris singing with Al Jareau. And, some very odd moments...like the paring of Meatloaf and Katharine...but by the end it worked for me. And a few moments that were irritating...like Toni Braxton either forgetting her words or just not singing...and acting like a ho trying to do a standing lap dance with Taylor. She was completely inappropriate for the night. Not sure if I was crazy about Mary J. Blige over-taking the song that was suppose to be a duet with Elliot. Eventhough he's boring to me...after all those weeks of commitment, he deserved his moment in the spotlight for the last time, instead of taking a back seat.

Prince...I'm not sure why he was the only professional to sing a solo and to be spotlighted the way he was...but boy was he good.

This whole subject is a huge soap box for me. Unfortunatley, there are also have women who turn into bimbos...like Toni Braxton did on the Idol finale...and women that will sing about their 'Humps' ...who are desperate for any type of attention and think it's ok to act like and present yourself as a ho. I think it just sends the wrong message to young girls who are easily influenced. Anything that causes a stir will whip the greedy dogs of the media (all types..from rag mags to music)...into a feeding frenzy. They really don't care what message is being sent to young girls as long as they make money. I recently saw a bio of Jessica Simpson...dear lord that's another rant.

But I think that's one reason Katharine made it so far. I think there are mom's out there that like her image and see her as s good role model. If you think about it...all of the women that have won Idol, Kelly Clarkson, Fantasia and Carrie Underwood are all possitive role models. Hopefully, none of them will grow into a Jessica Simpson.

i didn't get to watch the actual finale yet, it's still on DVR.

but without even having seen it i know alll about toni. i think she is trying too hard to prove, after being dropped from her label, that she is not a fallen star. the best way to do that is lock yourself in a room and make awesome music, not tear off all your clothes and shimmy. it's sad watching how La Face Records made her first album and it is crisp, clear, and sultry ... and after "Secrets" how she just started going all Elvis and mumbling like crazy. UGH. she could have been great and made us all forget Whitney but instead she's busy making a fool of herself.

AGH!!!



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Originally Posted by thmilin
i didn't get to watch the actual finale yet, it's still on DVR.

but without even having seen it i know alll about toni. i think she is trying too hard to prove, after being dropped from her label, that she is not a fallen star. the best way to do that is lock yourself in a room and make awesome music, not tear off all your clothes and shimmy. it's sad watching how La Face Records made her first album and it is crisp, clear, and sultry ... and after "Secrets" how she just started going all Elvis and mumbling like crazy. UGH. she could have been great and made us all forget Whitney but instead she's busy making a fool of herself.

AGH!!!
That it what was so surprizing to me...her mumbling and not being able to hear her voice clearly (as well as her performance...I thought 'what the h3ll is she doing?'). I remember Toni when she first became popular and having this great, sultry voice. She was sort of a hip Anita Baker (who I love) to me. If her mumbling wasn't a one time performance fluke, that's pretty sad fo her. Is there something truely wrong with her or her voice?

Your're right...she could have been another Whitney, which is another sad story. I sure hope these gals get their acts together and make a real comeback at some point.



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i don't think there's anything specifically wrong with her or her voice. when she wants to she still has great timbre and flexibility.

i bought her libra album and chucked it under a couch somewhere. literally, after secrets, which is like, two albums ago, her stuff is all mumbles. the tunes are ok, but if i can't understand what you are singing, i don't care. a true performer enunciates so the world can understand and appreciate.

i think she got severely lazy. she's always been a little bit breathy but there were clear letters in her lyrics in her first 3 albums. now, not so much. :P

she also started performing on tv shows (like Ellen), doing her single, "Please" which is a B+ effort compared to her past singles. She'd shimmy all over the stage paying more attention to moving than singing. her costumes were, for herself, body hugging, thigh revealing black spandex sorta stuff, and she now has at least one of her sisters performing with her (the braxton sisters began as a group before toni got the attention and broke out because the group wasn't making it as a 3some). her dancers and singers on stage, including her sister, were wearing the same exceedingly revealing out fits - same material, but cut like a swimsuit, their legs were completely naked except for shoes.

it was really disturbing, as i'm sure you can tell my from detailed description. :P



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I love AI!!! Can't wait for seaon 5 to start!!!!!!



A system of cells interlinked
Oh man.... I can't even watch... I feel SO bad for some of those people... As a former guitar teacher, it still astounds me how many people just can't hear when something is off key, or just sounds...well, bad...


Man, I watched one...these people are sooooo mean...
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yea, i dont get how they cant or no one around them can tell them they suck.