The MoFo Top 100 Neo-noir Countdown

1. Le Samouraï (1967)
2. Carlito's Way (1993)
3. L.A. Confidential (1997)
4. Raging Bull (1980)
5. The Killer (1989)
6. Miller's Crossing (1990)
7. The Big Lebowski (1998)
8. Pulp Fiction (1994)
9. Taxi Driver (1976)
10. Le Cercle Rouge (1970)
11. The Servant (1963)
12. Memento (2000)
13. No Country for Old Men (2007)
14. Hard Boiled (1992)
15. Shock Corridor (1963)
16. Mulholland Drive (2001)
17. The Silence of the Lambs (1991)
18. Blow Out (1981)
19. The Player (1992)
20. Good Time (2017)
21. Ghost Dog : The Way of the Samurai (1999)
22. Point Blank (1967)
23. Alphaville (1965)
24. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia (1974)
25. Blood Simple (1984)

Excellent hosting work, Thief!

Nice my top five prediction was correct. And I had Chinatown and Blade Runner at 1 and 2, respectively, just like Mofo. How original...or I am so in tune with the forum that I am Mofo! What can be said about these two films? They are two of the greatest and two of my favourite films of all time. My full list is below. The three that didn't make it were my one pointer Serie noie, The Limey at #16, which was talked bout a ways back, and Wong Kar-wai's Fallen Angels.

1. Chinatown (1974)
2. Blade Runner (1982)
3. Blue Velvet (1986)
4. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (1976)
5. High and Low (1963)
6. Le Samouraï (1967)
7. Blood Simple (1984)
8. Mulholland Drive (2001)
9. The Long Goodbye (1973)
10. Alphaville (1965)
11. L.A. Confidential (1997)
12. Taxi Driver (1976)
13. The Conversation (1974)
14. Zodiac (2007)
15. Memories of Murder (2003)
16. The Limey (1999)
17. Fireworks (1997)
18. Pale Flower (1964)
19. The Grifters (1990)
20. Inherent Vice (2014)
21. Fallen Angels (1995)
22. The American Friend (1977)
23. Bad Lieutenant (1992)
24. Le Cercle Rouge (1970)
25. Série noire (1979)

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Thank you, Thief, for running a five star countdown. Thanks to those that helped out along the way with stats and all that. And thanks to everyone that participated. Okay let's do the 90s redux next.

Seen both Chinatown and Blade Runner, but didn't vote for either. I like Blade Runner, but never quite loved it, rating it an 8/10. I found Chinatown underwhelming and only rated it a 6/10. Great list overall. Excellent job hosting, Thief! Thanks for all your hard work.

Seen: 87/100

My ballot:

1. The Departed (2006)
2. Taxi Driver (1976)
3. Fargo (1996)
4. No Country for Old Men (2007)
5. The Player (1992)
6. Hard Eight (1996)
7. Reservoir Dogs (1992)
8. The Game (1997)
9. Mulholland Drive (2001)
10. Se7en (1995)
11. Thelma & Louise (1991)
12. L.A. Confidential (1997)
13. The Manchurian Candidate (1962)
14. Kill Bill: Vol. 1 (2003)
15. High and Low (1963)
16. Memento (2000)
17. Barton Fink (1991)
18. A History of Violence (2005)
19. The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (2011)
20. Gone Girl (2014)
21. Gone Baby Gone (2007)
22. Nightcrawler (2014)
23. Prisoners (2013)
24. Badlands (1973)
25. Nightmare Alley (2021)

Great job Thief. Dueling countdowns turned out well and gave me a nice crime/noir watchlist. My list:

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Of course neither of these films are strangers to our MoFo Lists. Chinatown was #6 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1970s, #18 on the original MoFo Top 100, and #17 on the MoFo Top 100 Refresh. Blade Runner was #6 on the MoFo Top 100 of the 1980s, #2 on the MoFo Top 100 Science Fiction Films, #20 on the original MoFo Top 100, and #7 on the MoFo Top 100 Refresh.

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"Film is a disease. When it infects your bloodstream it takes over as the number one hormone. It bosses the enzymes, directs the pineal gland, plays Iago to your psyche. As with heroin, the antidote to Film is more Film." - Frank Capra

I had Chinatown all the way up at no. 3 and appears on my T100 very high up. Blade Runner I didn't consider for my ballot but one can't really go wrong with either choice here.

Near misses:

#11 Bonnie and Clyde
#17 Magnum Force
#25 Bullitt

L.A. Confidential - a movie I liked in my late teens back when it first came out. I've given it even less thought than The Usual Suspects since it came out. Not on my ballot.


Bladerunner - #25 on my ballot. I've only seen the theatrical cut. People keep telling me the director's cut is the better cut. I own it (like so many unwatched movies in my collection), "one of these days." It seems like an odd choice to rank highly on a neo-noir list, but maybe that's due to the version I seem to keep end up watching and the fact I don't rewatch it a lot like other people.



Chinatown - if I was being fair, it would probably show up somewhere on a noir ballot for me, but people talk about it being one of the greatest films of all time and that just leaves me at a loss, and I think of that discrepancy between enjoyment rather than how much I enjoy the movie when these type of ballots/questions come up.

Out of my top 10, I think only Trans-Europ Express didn't make it. Robbe-Grillet's BDSM-laced (aren't they all?), meta-noir movie about people on a train coming up with a plot for a crime movie, the one that you're seeing. Lots of sly humor in it. I prefer it to Shoot the Piano Player, which along with Breathless rounded out my ballot because it would have felt a little odd not including some influential French films for a film-noir list.

Great job running the countdown Thief!


I had neither Chinatown or Blade runner on my ballot but I did have L.A Confidential on mine - at number 1. Se7en was my number 6 and my ballot looks something like this:


1. L.A. Confidential (1997) #3
2. Jackie Brown (1997) #18
3. Se7en (1995) #6
4. The Usual Suspects (1995) #20
5. Fargo (1996) #11
6. Sin City (2005) #26
7. Payback (1999) DNP


8. Memento (2000) #8
9. Blood Simple (1984) #9
10. Heat (1995) #32
11. Reservoir Dogs (1992) #16
12. Mystic River (2003) #68
13. Dark City (1998) #24
14. Drive (2011) #14
15. Memories of Murder (2003) #25
16. In the Heat of the Night (1967) #98
17. Shoot the Piano Player (1960) DNP


18. High and Low (1963) #19
19. You Were Never Really Here (2018) #50
20. Mulholland Drive (2001) #10
21. The Hole (Le Trou) (1960) DNP


22. Killer Joe (2011) #66
23. Sympathy for Lady Vengeance (2005) DNP


24. The Grifters (1990) #45
25. Brick (2006) #81


A couple I really missed were The Player, A Simple Plan (which I THOUGHT I had on my ballot), Lost Highway and Blue Ruin. Whoops!




edit: seen 76/100

Good countdown, thanks Thief for hosting, you've been a great host!


My full list:

1. Blade Runner (1982)
2. Oldboy (2003)
3. Strange Days (1995)
4. Purple Noon (1960)
5. The American Friend (1977)
6. The Conversation (1974)
7. Le Samouraï (1967)
8. Le Cercle Rouge (1970)
9. Sin City (2005)
10. In Cold Blood (1967)
11. Body Heat (1981)
12. The Naked Kiss (1964)
13. Infernal Affairs (2002)
14. Miller's Crossing (1990)
15. Bound (1996)
16. Taxi Driver (1976)
17. Croupier (1998)
18. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (1988)
19. The Crying Game (1992)
20. The Player (1992)
21. The Driver (1978)
22. John Wick (2014)
23. Drive (2011)
24. Memento (2000)
25. Decision to Leave (2022)

If someone tells me that Chinatown is the best film ever made, I just say ok I respect that opinion. There was never a time since this countdown was announced that I wouldn't have been shocked if it weren't #1.

There are certainly things about Blade Runner that I like and that impress me, but overall I've never been a big fan.


Seen 94/100


Thank you very much Thief, awesome work!

congratulations and thank you to everyone involved in putting this together.

my final ballot...

1. Blade Runner (1982)
2. Taxi Driver (1976)
3. Goodfellas (1990)
4. Heat (1995)
5. Thief (1981)
6. Ghost in the Shell (1995)
7. Miami Vice (2006)
8. The Big Lebowski (1998)
9. Sonatine (1993)
10. Perfect Blue (1997)
11. Total Recall (1990)
12. Ghost Dog : The Way of the Samurai (1999)
13. Jackie Brown (1997)
14. Fireworks (1997)
15. After Hours (1985)
16. Hard Boiled (1992)
17. Collateral (2004)
18. Brazil (1985)
19. Chinatown (1974)
20. No Country for Old Men (2007)
21. Memento (2000)
22. John Wick: Chapter 4 (2023)
23. High and Low (1963)
24. Who Framed Roger Rabbit (1988)
25. Blackhat (2015)

the also-rans...

goodfellas - i have been told that this does not count as noir, but i would think a film about one man's lifelong involvement in crime leading to his rise and downfall qualifies. such is the problem with these genre countdowns where, in spite of having criteria like how it's tagged on imdb, there's never quite as much of a consensus about it as you'd think.

ghost in the shell - i mean, if blade runner is going to come in at a very well-deserved #2, then surely one of the other prime works of cyberpunk cinema (especially one that builds more on the idea of what it means to be an artificial being serving as law enforcement for a system that doesn't consider you human than blade runner 2049 ever does) merits at least some consideration. obviously, this can only be blamed on anti-anime bias.

miami vice - as with blackhat, another divisive late-period mann film, one where he reimagines his hit '80s tv show for the 21st century in ways that naturally play into noir stylings (convoluted detective plot, doomed romance on both sides of the law, etc.). it may not be as immediately enjoyable on a base level as the likes of heat or collateral, but it's still a worthwhile variation on his established work about cops and crooks.

perfect blue - i have to wonder which of these picks stretches the definition of neo-noir the most and maybe satoshi kon's psychological horror about a singer being tormented by a stalker as she embarks on an acting career is the one that seems like the biggest reach - at the same time, her struggle to keep ahead of everything from a deranged murderer to her own fragmenting psyche sounds like as good a narrative for a neo-noir as any.

total recall - if blade runner is a futuristic detective story, then this is a futuristic spy story, one complicated by its supposed everyman protagonist being made to realise that he's an amnesiac killing machine caught in the middle of an interplanetary conspiracy (or is he?). the fact that it's a schwarzenegger action movie arguably means it's difficult to consider it as a noir, but it still remains invested enough in its central mystery of why this guy had his mind wiped to qualify (as great as verhoeven's version is, it's hard not to think about how cronenberg's version might have turned out a little closer to being what we think of as neo-noir).

hard boiled - a little disappointed (if not exactly surprised) that john woo didn't get a look in. his heroic bloodshed films may be flashy in terms of their balletic action, but they are clearly operating in the same existential romanticism as the likes of melville's crime thrillers. the killer is arguably a better fit with its tale of a hitman trying to do one last job to redeem himself, but i've always given this the edge for its variation on the buddy-cop tale where a loose-cannon detective forms an unlikely partnership with an undercover cop (played by tony leung, effectively predating him playing a similar role in infernal affairs).

brazil - a film that's set "somewhere in the 20th century" and revolves around a drab grey little man being shaken out of his humdrum routine by the search for a beautiful woman definitely sounds like it fits the noir narrative/aesthetic, especially as he has to brave a world beset by everything from terrorism to bureaucracy. another pick that's a bit of a reach, but whatever.

john wick: chapter 4 - as noted earlier, if i'd voted for the original it would've made the list and thus represented a franchise that does make for a good neo-noir in showing its protagonist journeying through an arcane underworld of assassins. as it stands, i gave the edge to the newest one. like i said before, i'm an idiot.

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Iro's Top 100 Movies v3.0

Wild Things! I remember that movie...for it's noir qualities yes.

Thank you Thief for going above and beyond with your hosting duties. You ran a tight ship and ...


2 for 2 and as I mentioned Blade Runner was my #11. But I forgot Chinatown. So I end up having watched 72 out of 100 of the entries.

Disclaimer:



1. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang - #42
2. The Terminator
3. The Fugitive
4. The Nice Guys - #39
5. Out of Sight
6. Who Framed Roger Rabbit - #35
7. Wind River
8. Snake Eyes
9. Prisoners
10. Jackie Brown - #18
11. The Matrix
12. The Dark Knight - #61
13. Batman Begins
14. Dog Day Afternoon - #36
15. Pulp Fiction - #37
16. Reservoir Dogs - #16
17. Witness
18. Shutter Island - #83
19. John Wick: Chapter 4
20. John Wick
21. Memories of Murder - #25
22. Marnie
23. Blow Out - #17
24. The Kid Detective
25. The Little Things - 1P

Wonderful job Thief! A worthy countdown! Time to hunt down the ones I haven’t seen

It should surprise no longtime MoFos that I had both of these titles on my ballot, nor which was my top choice. Both are two of my all-time favorite movies of any genre or any time period, and one I routinely name as the greatest film ever made. So...yeah.



I love Blade Runner and its various incarnations for lots and lots of reasons. But among them is definitely how it transported many of the aesthetics and tropes of Noir and fused them so wonderfully with Science Fiction. Los Angeles 2019 retrofitted in all of its dystopian cyberpunk glory is still Los Angeles. The final confrontation is in The Bradbury Building, fer cripe's sake! Even in the latter cuts with the voice over removed it has Noir in its DNA. It is now Hollywood legend how much the crew despised Ridley Scott during the arduous production, but whatever his methods there is no denying the power and horrible beauty of the stunning and still influential dense visual world they created. Critic Pauline Kael quipped that Blade Runner is film full of subtext with no text and Harrison Ford once lamented that Deckard is a detective who doesn't ever detect anything, but Blade Runner is more than the sum of its parts, emerging and enduring as a classic for the ages, well past the actual year of 2019 with no sign of diminishing.



I have owned just about every version of Blade Runner there is. First taped off of cable, then the store-bought VHS, replaced by the Criterion Collection LD, then the Director's Cut on LD, eventually on DVD, and finally the Final Cut on DVD and BluRay. I have seen those various cuts over twenty times, theatrically, and literally over a hundred from all that media. More human than human, that's my motto. Blade Runner was third on my ballot.




I am one of those bleak bastards who believes Chinatown is still the greatest film ever made. Cinematic perfection. Oh, sure, in story and character terms its a frickin' downer, with mayhaps the slimiest and creepiest of all slimy creeps, John Huston's Noah Cross, getting exactly what he wants in the end, part of that being his granddaughter who he fathered through incest and can now try and go for a great grandchild, I reckon. Neo-Noir is able to go places that Classic Noir could only suggest, and even then they rarely suggested it. In addition to a frankness about sexual perversions and more graphic depictions of sex and violence, what Neo-Noir could really finally do is have evil prevail. And boy does it prevail in Chinatown.

Whether or not Polanski would have been willing to push the darkness so far had his wife and child not been grotesquely murdered one can only speculate, but he was obviously the right man for the job in bringing Robert Towne's legendary script to life. The post-1960s assassinations and current Watergate-era 1970s was ripe for this tale about corruption surrounding the distribution of water around what would become the sprawling Los Angeles region, but the final twist is that the political corruption is only window dressing for the true corruption of an inveterate rapist. And what can our hero Jake Gittes do about it? Only watch it happen and try to forget about it. Noir, thy permanent address is Chinatown.



My twenty-five points helped Chinatown ascend to where it simply had to be. Frankly anytime I am scrolling around the internet and find a list of Best Neo-Noirs, if Chinatown ain't number one I don't even bother reading it. I am very glad the MoFo Top 100 Neo-Noirs is not one of those.

HOLDEN'S BALLOT
1.Chinatown (#1)
2. The Long Goodbye (#5)
3. Blade Runner (#2)
4. Night Moves (#40)
5. High & Low (#19)
6. Nightcrawler (#21)
7. The Grifters (#45)
8. One False Move (#73)
9. Blast of Silence (#48)
10. After Dark, My Sweet (DNP)
11. Blow Out (#17)
12. To Live & Die in L.A. (#43)
13. The Naked Kiss (#51)
14. Angel Heart (#31)
15. Shallow Grave (#95)
16. The Yakuza (DNP)
17. Dead Again (#90)
18. The Silent Partner (DNP)
19. The Limey (DNP)
20. L.A. Confidential (#3)
21. Drive (#14)
22. The Hot Spot (#85)
23. Charley Varrick (DNP)
24. Blue Ruin (#82)
25. Johnny Handsome (DNP)