Director Dissection with Seanc and Rauldc

I think Sean and Raul should keep doing controversial directors. It creates a lot of activity and useful debate.

Daniel what are you trying to prove here? You are acting as if though we are hating on Nolan just because he's popular. Why can't we criticize a filmmaker? This is a movie forum is it not. I like a few of his films, but does that mean that I should push aside all the other mediocrities he's made. I think me, and the majority of the people posting in this thread are posting valid objective points. I'm one of the most lenient graders on this website and tend to enjoy a wide variety of films. Why is Nolan so sacred that we can't judge him as a director?

I think everyone is doing a good job of stating their opinion and being civil. This is more response then we have gotten for any director. I am glad we chose him.

Yeah, I understand the criticism and think most of the points are valid. But I question the intention behind most of them. Most of you agree that he has made some films, and you don't hate any of them it seems, you give them okay ratings. Same with other members, but the amount people write and 'nitpick' seems astronomical when compared to other directors who people will probably admit are worse directors. As soon as Nolan is mentioned everyone has a list of points they want to bring out against him, and I just feel like the people who enjoy his work should be supported and not made to feel silly for doing so

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@Daniel:
Those other directors that you're talking about don't need to be attacked, though, because noone is calling them "one of the greatest filmmakers of all time".

I think most of us are trying to prove that he's not in the same bracket as some of the truly great film artists of this generation (or even of all time).

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Cobpyth's Movie Log ~ 2019

This is what I was kind of getting at before Cob. I think there is a definite desire for people to bring Nolan down a peg. Do you think he is considered one of the greatest of all time by big time film fans?

I think it is safe to say that Raul and I have some of the most "mainstream" taste on the site, and we are not close to calling him the greatest of all time. Well, I'm not, I won't speak for Raul, but I don't think so.

Not sure if you meant to say something else here Daniel?

I think we would all like to distinguish a Nolan film ALL of the times, but IMO his Visual style is not distinctive enough to single out. That's not to say some of the scenes in his films aren't stunning, but I don't think his images are ever consistently great, or have and trademark Nolan look on them.

Not for me either. But I do respect his work. Does he have the potential to be a top ten director for me? Well time will tell. The more I dig into people like Wilder, Ford, Bergman, and others, they move up the scale.

So far what I have seen of Nolan on the big screen, I have enjoyed. I watched "Following", his university film, and I did not like it at all.. I found it slow and boring.

As long as Nolan keeps us going with big screen films, Im fine with him as a director.

By people who consider themselves big time film fans? I'm afraid so, yes. Many of them actually.

Fair enough. I only live in two film worlds. Here, where it feels like everyone has seen and knows twice as much as me, and where Nolan isn't #1. Then real life where many people I know have seen his films but wouldn't even know his name if I brought it up.

I think this idea that a whole bunch of people consider him 'one of the best' is blown out of proportion too, both sides seem to make hyperbolic statements in order to counter each others points, but I think most people are just happy to enjoy his work.

I do think though that some other directors get a 'pass' when it comes to some of the problems highlighted with Nolan. When people discover new films and tastes, and evolve in terms of a film watcher, there seems to be some kind of list of directors not too like so much any more, whilst some who have similar problems get away with things. For example: David Fincher's films rely hugely on how their narratives are constructed and largely rely on twists, his palette is very distinctive and not too varied or vivid, his films don't feature many fleshed out human relationships or sexuality (undertones in Fight Club seem to come from its author, and the Gone Girl book/script is written by a female). Everyone loves his films and his mysteries, myself included.

wait what

Fincher has a mad sense of rhythm, Daniel.
Seriously, he's simply a much better director than Nolan. He's not perfect either, but he's much more "visually literate". That's why people who really study the art of cinema keep respecting him. I know you respect him much more as a filmmaker than Nolan as well.

But to come back to what Seanc asked. Look on youtube, IMDb and plenty of other places where so called film buffs come together and witness how many people rank Nolan amongst the likes of Kubrick and Hitchcock. Many of these guys are actually considered legitimate movie critics/reviewers by a large amount of people, so I don't think it's blown out of proportion that much.

I know most of the cinephiles here in this thread are probably already beyond that phase of getting your information on cinema through those roads, but imagine how many (beginning) film buffs that are being told that Nolan is actually on the same level as some of "the true giants of cinema".

Yeah I agree that he's better and I like him a lot. But I'm just kind of trying to make the point that it's easy to pick holes in directors work if you want to.

And I dunno, I guess there are some people that think he's great, but I'm yet to see any serious critic like his work, especially when you move beyond normal review stuff and in to serious criticism. I remember though when I first started getting in to films I found stuff like Memento from the IMDB top 250, along with movies like Seven, American Beauty, The Usual Suspects and so on. I don't love every single one of them as much as I used to, but I think that people shouldn't be so dismissive and see people liking Nolan as some sort of problem. I'd like to think that people would either be happy to love his films and be content to not explore beyond them, or too have generated some sort of interest through them that led them to explore other films afterwards. Some people want to expand beyond, to discover more, but some people are happy not too, I guess.

Yes, but it's also true that it's less easy to pick legitimate and blatant holes in (for instance) Fincher's work than it is in Nolan's work, especially when you're talking about the cinematic value of their films.

True.

Yeah, you're right in that it's probably not that big a deal.

Rank the directors:

Christopher Nolan
James Cameron
Michael Bay
JJ Abrams
Joss Whedon
Brad Bird
Doug Liman
Justin Lin
Rian Johnson
Ridley Scott

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Letterboxd

Ridley Scott
Joss Whedon
James Cameron
Christopher Nolan
Everyone else









































Michael Bay

This is also what I'd like to know. I remember Daniel criticizing Kubrick and Scorsese a while back, claiming he no longer considered them to be as great as he once thought. I don't see where's the difference between that and these Nolan criticisms.

I said I don't see why people put them on such a pedestal and consider all their works to be masterpieces among masterpieces that all other directors should aspire to be, and that I think all directors should be given a chance, and why shouldn't their works be able to challenge the works of those directors? Plus I've already said I don't consider Nolan to be as good as I used to think either.