The 2008 Election

Yoda, you're extremely unfair. I probably shouldn't have responded here because being the shoutbox, I was feeling rather insecure about how long I should write my answers. You're saying you want more details, I gather.

You also decide that since someone disagrees with you, you tell them they can't argue logically. So it is better to just insult them than to hear them out? Or actually debate in another thread? We were once in a discussion and you bowed out.

As to the wife thing, it was not the divorce, but allowing Bush to characterize his wife as a drug addict during the 2000 election. So maybe you make assumptions about my points that are not true.

We can move a discussion like this to another thread and I will be glad to debate you in a way that pleases you and you don't have to then revert to insulting me.

And it rather pisses me off that you would make a statement that I have put you into some category. Republican? If so, then maybe you should understand that in an argument such as this, I'm talking about one particular party. I am well aware that people are many things but I am not aware of who you are and what you believe. So you will have to excuse me if I don't like the assumption I have insulted you.

In other words, I think we can discuss like adults and I think your economic point was a very good one.

I'm so excited for the first time in my voting history to vote for rather than against a major party candidate or making a protest vote with a third party candidate.

I have real hope for our country improving is so many ways.

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Bleacheddecay

Yoda, I know you're coming back here later -- tomorrow -- but I really want to ask you (and whoever else wants to answer) why are you so seemingly invested in this Republican party? I honestly don't understand it.

If it's economics, I'll stay out of that. I don't understand it all that much (and neither does McCain for that matter), and I have no problem with the belief that we are a society and as a society we can help each other. So I'm not at all on the republican side, but I can see the attraction. I think it is selfish, but I understand it at a certain level.

But what I cannot see at this point is why anyone can still support a group of people that have decided we are an imperical force around the world; that we have the right to torture; that we have the right to lie to the American people whenever it suits our needs; that we have the right to do whatever is necessary to get elected, including the bullying of people and telling the voters we will not count votes; that we have the right to do anything necessary to get elected including the villification of homosexuals; that we have the right to break rules in the Senate and in the House in order to make the other party impotent; that we have the right to break the Constitution whenever national security demands it yet we hold the definition of what "national security" even means; and that we have the right to not look after our poor countrymen because it is more important that the pharmaceutical companies and the oil companies make their record profits. They make these profits on the very backs of the middle class.

I hope that was more detail, Yoda, but truthfully, and sincerely, I honestly don't understand the defense that some give for still wanting a republican administration.

We all know the President changes his policies when he gets in office. He gets the experience day to day. He changes foreign policy once he learns certain information. We can only vote for the things that get us in our guts -- which candidate shares our values? which candidate really cares about the American people and what we want and need? Which candidate understands how hard it is to pay our bills?

How can McCain claim that? He's embraced Bush the last few years. He gave up on election reform. He courted the religious right. He makes jokes about bombing Iran. He is willing to send our sons and daughters to war indefinitely. How is it possible that people can support that?

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the Palin choice. If I wanted to be totally cynical - and as a New Yorker, it's practically a requirement! - I'd say that the GOP wouldn't allow McCain to have his real first choice, Joe Lieberman, and in typical McCain Angryman fashion, he picked the most obscure alternative - a woman he'd met once before - just to spite them.

OTOH, she does appeal to the evangelical and Neo-Con bases, both of which have had major issues with McCain's alleged Maverick status.

I'll be blunt - John McCain scares me. His temper, his willingness to embrace a man and a political machine that destroyed him in 2000 (Karl Rove, I'm looking at you), and his 180 on so many issues have made me lose all respect for him. I work in Manhattan, and don't feel like having an even bigger target painted on my back, just because McCain loses his temper and decides to, "Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran."

I wasn't a big Obama supporter before - I voted for Edwards in my primary, and preferred Hillary after that - but his wise choice of Joe Biden as a running mate has secured my vote for him.

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Reporter: What would you call that hairstyle you're wearing?

George: Arthur.

You echo MANY of my concerns. I know Obama is wet behind the ears, and I do not hold animosity towards McCain, but after the past eight years I don't want to fall for the same trick twice.

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...uh the post is up there...

Palin was a great choice and makes me lean to the McCain ticket.

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“The gladdest moment in human life, methinks, is a departure into unknown lands.” – Sir Richard Burton

Would that not be three times?

I, like most Americans didn't pay much attention to Bush in his first term. Although, I think his domestic spying and interrogation policies open a can of worms, enabling future office holders to bend the rules. Also, I really didn't have a real opinion on the Iraq war, until it became apparent that there wasn't any real exit strategy. Anyway, I think if we could survive this presidency there isn't a whole-lot we can't, Democrat or Republican.

I'm not going to get into politics as usual right now. I earlier mentioned that I was surprised that Bush made it through his eight years without being impeached because once they impeached Clinton, basically for getting a blow job in the Oval Office, I figured that "all's fair" and that every single President would get impeached unless they had rock-solid support in Congress.

The thing which is so unique concerning W. was his actual first "election". For those too young to recall, there was basically no elected president for over a month after "the election of 2000". Gore had won the popular vote by over a half-million votes, but everything depended on how the state of Florida swung, based on the electoral college. Of course, the fact that Bush's brother was Governor of Florida only fueled some people's opinions that the entire election was a sham job. I'm not here to talk about what is right and what is wrong, but I believe that all these "facts" are certainly fair enough to mention. Everything which has happened since the 2000 election is also fair game, and you can be sure that what you think about it every morning and night depends a lot on who you grew up with and who you look up to. My daughter's best friend is 180 degrees the opposite of her, but that's based on the fact that her parents are 180 degrees opposite from the way my wife and I are. However, they are very intelligent and loving people, and I'd never get into a big argument with them over how "stupid" they may be because they disagree with me. On the other hand, if I felt the need to go pro my candidate all over the place, I would expect them to be able to deal with it and still be my friend. Politics are important to people but I hope we can separate the friend/family member from their politics along the way. I don't know. The 2000s have been tough.

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It's what you learn after you know it all that counts. - John Wooden
My IMDb page

why is Palin a "great" choice?

I'm usually all about checks and balances when voting! The less the government can do, the better is almost always my POV.

In this case I'm for Obama all the way. McCain wants to keep us in a land war for fifty years. This land war is part of why the economy sucks.

The reason I would possibly vote republican ever considering their stances on social issues which should not be legislated at all is usually fiscal. This year they don't even have that to make me vote for them.

Either side is going to cost us money. One side however offers a great deal of hope on many fronts, domestic relations, foreign relations high among them.

As for Palin's 17 year old being pregnant. That's what happens when you teach abstinence and no birth or disease control. That's also what happens when you try to control your kids too much. Religious zealots are some of the randiest, twisted people I've ever known.

My understanding is that he didn't even vet her. There are lots of bad things about how corrupt she is and her bad policy issues that will come out should the media wish to bother with it.

This was a stupid mistake on his part IMO. It feels a lot like stunt casting. However to not bother to even vet your vice presidential running mate screams, "doesn't think things through" to me.

I don't want a president that doesn't think things through. Do you?

Frankly, after what we've been through I don't want a republican president at all.

Hopefully people are not voting blindly for a candidate with boobs instead of looking at what they represent.

I'm all for women in power. The problem is they keep throwing truly awful women at us.

How can one complain about her experience without drawing attention to Obama. Also all this "Bush" is at fault for everything stance is quite the same, The House and The Senate count for something.

Obama supports some of Bush's policies and ideas also:


OBAMA’S SUPPORT FOR BUSH/CHENEY ENERGY POLICY
Sen. Obama voted for the 2005 Energy Bill, written in secret by Vice President Cheney and the energy lobby. Thomas Friedman referred to the bill as “the sum of all lobbies.” U.S. PIRG noted that the bill’s “heavy tilt toward big oil companies reflects the influence of Exxon Mobil and other oil companies on policy-makers in Washington, DC.”
The Washington Post editorialized that the bill was a “piñata of perks for energy industries.” Indeed, the bill contained $6 billion in subsidies to the oil and gas industry and $12 billion to the nuclear power industry.
Although Sen. Obama voted for the legislation, he has spoken as if he opposed it on the campaign trail, criticizing it repeatedly. At a presidential debate he said “You can look at how Dick Cheney did his energy policy…he met with oil and gas companies forty times, and that’s how they put together our energy policy.” He’s attributed the failure of our current energy policy to Congress’s “failure to stand up to the lobbyists.”
Sen. Obama’s rhetoric blasting the policies of Vice President Dick Cheney and energy lobbyists can be stirring. But Obama’s actions haven’t matched his words.


BTW: I am not 100 percent decided just leaning heavily. I will listen to the debates and go from there. I want everyone to know that I respect their opinions and I think no matter what way it goes this will still be one of the greatest countries on Earth.

I'm not sure if anyone's allready pointed this out, but isn't it obvious that McCain picked Palin to secure the votes of bitter Hillary fans?

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The novelist does not long to see the lion eat grass. He realizes that one and the same God created the wolf and the lamb, then smiled, "seeing that his work was good".

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They had temporarily escaped the factories, the warehouses, the slaughterhouses, the car washes - they'd be back in captivity the next day but now they were out - they were wild with freedom. They weren't thinking about the slavery of poverty. Or the slavery of welfare and food stamps. The rest of us would be all right until the poor learned how to make atom bombs in their basements.

Yes, they will surely shore up all the rabidly pro-Hillary potential voters who are so disillusioned by the whole process that they will vote for a ticket that expressly is against every major social issue Clinton was fighting for.

So, all six or seven of those wacky people, the Palin pick scores them. If breasts and a vagina are all they were voting for in the first place, smart move. If, rather, they supported her because of what she believed in and campaigned on, don't see how it helps in the slightest.


Palin was a bone to the ultra-Conservative base, not to the ridiculous "PUMA"s.

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"Film is a disease. When it infects your bloodstream it takes over as the number one hormone. It bosses the enzymes, directs the pineal gland, plays Iago to your psyche. As with heroin, the antidote to Film is more Film." - Frank Capra

That might have been their angle, but it was a silly one, if that was the line of thinking. It will take a whole HELL of a lot more to get democratic women to jump over to the GoP, from what I can tell. I asked quite a few women I know in the area, and it didn't sway them in the least.

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Not to go too much into it, becaue I'm really not in the mood, but I'm going to honest here, and say that I really don't like or trust either of the two main candidates that we have here very much. That Palin sounds like a repulsive, drippy woman. No wonder McCain picked her!

Barr '08

Not saying that it will work, but I'm sure it has something to do with the choice. Just as Biden was picked to match McCain's experience and age.

And I think you just illustrated my point by assuming that the typical Hillary fan is a woman, which is what you are doing in your posts.