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Registered User
Not sure if troll post or not...
Not at all, I'm American and my only knowledge of them is a speech one of their members made before the EU which sounded pretty inspiring.

According to another member they're similar to BNP - a ultra-nationalist or white nationalist party? If so I wasn't aware of that at all. From what I heard of them they just sounded like a more libertarian, pro independence party.



Registered User
You know you're allowed to not have opinions on things you don't know a lot about, right? It's encouraged, even.
Nothing on the Wikpedia page suggests that they're affiliated with the BNP.

http://www.wikiwand.com/en/UK_Independence_Party

European "right wing" parties usually aren't as fringe as American right anyway.



Okay, great, but that's beside the point. This is a thread about UK politics. You don't live int he UK and you admit that the extent of your knowledge is hearing one speech from one guy. And yet somehow you feel qualified to articulate an opinion.

I realize there are (terrible) parts of the Internet where everybody thinks their opinions on any topic are worth disseminating simply because they have them, but that's not true. That's wrong/bad.



The People's Republic of Clogher
That's wrong/bad.
And the reason I largely stay clear from articulating a half-arsed opinion about politics in a country where I'm not entitled to vote.

I could read Wikipedia until I'm red, white and blue in the face but totally miss the nuance that comes with actually living in the place where the things happen. It's fine as a conversation starter but then making an "Ok, but..." post doesn't really cut it.
__________________
"Critics are like eunuchs in a harem; they know how the Tatty 100 is done, they've seen it done every day, but they're unable to do it themselves." - Brendan Behan



Okay, great, but that's beside the point. This is a thread about UK politics. You don't live int he UK and you admit that the extent of your knowledge is hearing one speech from one guy. And yet somehow you feel qualified to articulate an opinion.

I realize there are (terrible) parts of the Internet where everybody thinks their opinions on any topic are worth disseminating simply because they have them, but that's not true. That's wrong/bad.
Well I'm a bit guilty of commenting on US political threads too, but that's only cos politics interests me immensely and I wouldn't express opinions directly on US politics as like Tatty says it's too nuanced for outsiders to understand. I usually only present what happens in the UK as a contrast or for comparison purposes.

Nothing on the Wikpedia page suggests that they're affiliated with the BNP.

http://www.wikiwand.com/en/UK_Independence_Party

European "right wing" parties usually aren't as fringe as American right anyway.
Don't know what you mean by the last sentence but I can assure you there are plenty of very nasty extremist right wing parties all over Europe.

On UKIP yes, they have no outward affiliations to the BNP, but what they are doing is taking BNP votes. Their leader Nigel Farage has a common touch. Despite being a public school educated banker (did I spell that right?) with his ciggie smoking, beer drinking public persona he puts out like he's just another bloke down the pub. Clever populist strategy. However he's had to be sacking various members of UKIP for awkwardly expressing underlying far right views in public, so goodness knows what goes on behind closed doors.

They're seeking to normalise prejudices and work on the usual way the right wing does of insiduously turning people against each other. They're building up votes by including whatever populist complaints are in the news at the moment into their manifesto. Worried about the NHS, immigrants, the EU, tuition fees? UKIP will have a policy for you, but what they won't have is an explaination of where the funding is coming from, but never mind about that. Farage said today they've found £3 billion to put into the NHS - where from? It seems like only yesterday Farage was telling us that the NHS should move towards an insurance system.

UKIP's headline policy is leaving the EU, but let's not bother thinking about what effect that will have on trade we have with other EU countries, after all it's only 50% of our exports and 51% of our exports.

* sacked Lord Christopher Monckton, who previously served as the party’s deputy leader and President in Scotland for homophobic comments
*Rozanne Duncan UKIP Councillor sacked from the party for apparently jaw dropping racist remarks allegedly saying 'said she had a problem with "negroes" because there was "something about their faces".
*Nikki Sinclaire sacked for saying while she was an MEP she wasn't willing to sit with "European parties within the Europe of Freedom and Democracy Group who have a variety of extremist views.
*Godfrey Bloom MEP for saying that “no employer with a brain in the right place would employ a young, single, free woman”
* sacked senior UKIP member and former parliamentary candidate Dr Julia Gasper who claimed some homosexuals prefer sex with animals.
* sacked UKIP Croydon North candidate for tweeting: "A caring loving home is a heterosexual or single family. I don't believe (a gay couple) is healthy for a child."
* Olly Neville, the former UKIP Youth Chairman, sacked for supporting same-sex marriage.



Registered User
Well I'm a bit guilty of commenting on US political threads too, but that's only cos politics interests me immensely and I wouldn't express opinions directly on US politics as like Tatty says it's too nuanced for outsiders to understand. I usually only present what happens in the UK as a contrast or for comparison purposes.



Don't know what you mean by the last sentence but I can assure you there are plenty of very nasty extremist right wing parties all over Europe.

On UKIP yes, they have no outward affiliations to the BNP, but what they are doing is taking BNP votes. Their leader Nigel Farage has a common touch. Despite being a public school educated banker (did I spell that right?) with his ciggie smoking, beer drinking public persona he puts out like he's just another bloke down the pub. Clever populist strategy. However he's had to be sacking various members of UKIP for awkwardly expressing underlying far right views in public, so goodness knows what goes on behind closed doors.

They're seeking to normalise prejudices and work on the usual way the right wing does of insiduously turning people against each other. They're building up votes by including whatever populist complaints are in the news at the moment into their manifesto. Worried about the NHS, immigrants, the EU, tuition fees? UKIP will have a policy for you, but what they won't have is an explaination of where the funding is coming from, but never mind about that. Farage said today they've found £3 billion to put into the NHS - where from? It seems like only yesterday Farage was telling us that the NHS should move towards an insurance system.

UKIP's headline policy is leaving the EU, but let's not bother thinking about what effect that will have on trade we have with other EU countries, after all it's only 50% of our exports and 51% of our exports.

* sacked Lord Christopher Monckton, who previously served as the party’s deputy leader and President in Scotland for homophobic comments
*Rozanne Duncan UKIP Councillor sacked from the party for apparently jaw dropping racist remarks allegedly saying 'said she had a problem with "negroes" because there was "something about their faces".
*Nikki Sinclaire sacked for saying while she was an MEP she wasn't willing to sit with "European parties within the Europe of Freedom and Democracy Group who have a variety of extremist views.
*Godfrey Bloom MEP for saying that “no employer with a brain in the right place would employ a young, single, free woman”
* sacked senior UKIP member and former parliamentary candidate Dr Julia Gasper who claimed some homosexuals prefer sex with animals.
* sacked UKIP Croydon North candidate for tweeting: "A caring loving home is a heterosexual or single family. I don't believe (a gay couple) is healthy for a child."
* Olly Neville, the former UKIP Youth Chairman, sacked for supporting same-sex marriage.
On second thought they sound too much like the Republican Party



On UKIP yes, they have no outward affiliations to the BNP, but what they are doing is taking BNP votes. Their leader Nigel Farage has a common touch. Despite being a public school educated banker (did I spell that right?) with his ciggie smoking, beer drinking public persona he puts out like he's just another bloke down the pub. Clever populist strategy. However he's had to be sacking various members of UKIP for awkwardly expressing underlying far right views in public, so goodness knows what goes on behind closed doors.
Just to make clear, in the UK public school means private education.

I agree with pretty much everything christine wrote there. Outside of Farage, the party has nothing. Their manifesto writer was on Question Time last night and, frankly, embarrassed herself. They now have two MP's, both from rundown, impoverished areas who were Tories who's seats UKIP would've almost certainly targeted come the election because of the nature of those seats and, therefore, defected because they were more confident of holding their seats as UKIP then they were as Tories. Fear of the other is their weapon and they wield it relentlessly. Farage was recently a couple of hours late for a meeting he was supposed to attend in Wales with party members who'd paid £25 to attend. When asked why he was late, he replied traffic on the motorway (perfectly reasonable) because there's too many foreigners on the roads.
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5-time MoFo Award winner.



Sorry I forgot public school means the opposite in the US to what it does in the UK!

I forgot to watch Question Time last night, good job probably as anyone from UKIP doesn't do my blood pressure any good! That was another sacking I forgot about - UKIP's last manifesto writer got sacked in January for failing to complete it. His nose probably got too long to get in the office.



The People's Republic of Clogher
They've been riding a perfect storm - A late term, ineffectual government presiding over a recession and a directionless opposition + a couple of well timed by-elections. They'll win a few seats in the election but doubt if they'll even bother the DUP's numbers.



The People's Republic of Clogher
It's shaping up to be a very interesting election. Can't see anyone having an overall majority again, although if the Lib Dems combust like some are forecasting it could mean someone has a workable number of seats.

It'll still be the same old religious headcount over here, however. We're a long way from anything approaching normal politics.



It's strange, everyone keeps repeating that the one thing we can be sure of with the coming election is that no one knows who's going to win. Yet no one thinks anyone will win.

It wouldn't surprise me if there's more than one election this year.



The People's Republic of Clogher
Agreed. We could well see a minority government going to the polls again after 6 months.

Where are The Two Davids when you need them?



So. Thoughts on how the parties are doing in the most fragmented run up to the election that we have had in my voting lifetime. Yoda would be interested in this one I think too.
The strength of the leaders of the Scottish Nationals and Plaid Cymru is really interesting. The fall from grace of the Lib Dems, the wolf in sheeps clothing of UKIP, the Green party's good ideas but pie in the sky in terms of reality, the role that Northern Irish parties could play in the balance, Ed's perceived lack of authority, the view that Dave's government has allowed tax dodgers to flourish , all this in the mix is very far from the straight choice between the Tories and Labour that started my voting life. It's going to be different this time...



I've already said it in this thread, I think, but I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if there another election before the year is out. It's a little odd to say it, but I think the two parties who're closest to have a coalition would be tories and labour. It'd destroy both parties from the ground up, of course because they still think their parties represent them, but it'd probably be the best fit.