The Shining -- Hidden Meanings

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I’m tired of constantly being in debt to this race or that race for things that happened in the past. My grandparents came to America through Ellis Island in the 1920’s. My Grandmother was but a child then and had no real clue about how America came to be. Yet, I am indebted to the American Indian’s, and the African American’s (I hate that term. Most black people here were born here and have never been to Africa. From now on, I’m a Swedish American) for things that my family had nothing to do with. I’m not with the belief that there should be a mass forgetting of what had happened in the past, but it angers me when people cry for bonuses for things that they never had to deal with.

In the Pacific Northwest, where I live, there was a big stir a few years ago about a local tribe of Indians who wanted to hunt a whale. This particular breed of whale had just come off the endangered list and since that happened, the tribe demanded that they be given permission to practice an old custom. Now, had I gone out and killed one of these whales, I would have been arrested by the Dept. of the Interior, but it came to pass that they were allowed. Why was it so important for them to do this after they hadn’t for many years? This tribe owns a casino and is worth millions of dollars, so it wasn’t to feed their children, but they were frothing at the mouth and very angry about their “rights”. In the end, they hunted the whale, killed it, and there was no report about what they did with it. Here were 5 Indians in a fiberglass boat, a state of the art harpoon, and wearing their blue jeans and baseball caps. How authentic. I’m still angry about this special consideration.

I also get upset about being categorized by so many black people as a racist, even though they don’t know me. I have seen more racism within the black ranks than I ever have from the white. They want this, they want that, and they want me to pay for it with a smile and an apology. I’m tired of it. I’m also tired of seeing Mexican women with their seven kids and pregnant with an eighth. I have no problem with any race or culture, but I’m really friggin’ sick of paying for them. How do you think they feed all those kids when their husband’s are working minimum pay jobs? With food stamps, welfare, and other services that come out of my taxes, that’s how. It seems that they have as many children on American soil as possible so as to secure their familial roots. I can understand that logic, hell I want to eat to, but I am tired of being forced to pay a part of their income. One last thing that drives me nuts, are the overall attitude American white’s get from South Koreans. There is a subtle contempt from them of us, even though they get a check, free college, and vouchers for the many things they need when they first arrive here. It’s ironic, that there are so many people within our borders, that have the same attitude about America that, seemingly, the rest of the world has.

Rant over.
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there's a frog in my snake oil
Originally Posted by The Silver Bullet
Snobbery on my part, or on that of our ultra-conservative Prime Minister?
On the part of those who originally took the kids, no matter how well meaning. Now worries mate, we're cool

To Lord Slayt: Yeah man, i know where you're coming from on a lot of that. The Korean one i understand on their behalf too tho, coz of how they feel they've lost democratic control at home [i.e. they feel the US tells their government what to do - and they've been ripped to pieces on a farming level by the uneven Free Trade set up/cheap US food-imports etc - ironic isn't it, considering a preoposition amongst some Stateside to moan about cheap-foreign imports from "Asia" etc ] - this is what powers a lot of their anger/contempt [ungrateful as it is when receiving a hand-out etc etc.]

Anyway, loads of history in all the cases. The indian one i was going to defend until you said they used a modern harpoon etc. The clothes etc are fine, but it only feels justified if they're genuinely rexploring the importance behind those old actions - and some how, doing it the fully automated way makes me suspect they're not. Depending on what the rational was (and let's face it, getting food and other uses out of the carcass would have been one of the major ones ) you could argue that they're still justified if it all helps them reaffirm past customs [i.e. if it allows them to feel an intimate knowledge of an aspect of their environment, or to readdress an old form of thinking about the world etc]. I'd definitely like to know why they thought they were doing it.

The black-african-caribbean confusion just keeps whipping it's tail about doesn't it. That beast that we've all created - the myth of the black man. I reckon it's like Bamboozled seems to put it: we pay more attention to an idea of what "blackness" is than paying attention to the actions of the various people that get called "black". (there's gotta be a better term/word out there that sits well with everyone. Seeing as how "black" skin tones can mix from honey to ebony, maybe we should say, erm, i dunno, hebony or something. Hmm... "That heboney guy just payed for my lunch! Hey! Stop him!". Who knows )

Anyways, this last one seems the most cruely intractable. I think the continental displacement has just been too much to expect people to be able to re-attach to old cultural ways which neither they nor recent generations have experienced. I think everyone needs to move further forward on this one - but how? It's no good some white guy being told he should pay up for his ancestors' actions, by some golden skinned gal who's living in the past, who's being told by a darker guy she ain't ancient enough, and he's enraged coz the white guy says all that history's done. And on and on.

And to be honest i don't know where my culture's gone either - so i understand the ghetto-isation of habits and views that can happen when races segregate and congregate alone. What current society has to offer isn't always that pretty, so you've gotta make your own. I'm just pondering now what the difference is between being white or black while adrift in Brit society (i.e. traditonal "British" values have totally mutated, so now there's no real "constant" for behaviour i wouldn't say - just lots of varied norms across society) I'm just wondering if the fact that an afro-caribbean person can fixate on their cultural heritage - and attribute it in a broader sense to everyone they see of "black" appearance - is part of what's behind the social under-acheivement? We all know the feeling of alienation/seperation means engaging is unlikely (and opportunity is still stunted in many areas - but to me too - i don't know the right people either - or i wasn't born amongst them )...
Arggh, i really don't know.... anyway - i should probably stop b4 u stop reading.

As for the Mexican lady with lots of children - man, some people call Mother Theresa a curse of Africa now - i.e. she preached against-contraception during her time there etc. I hope no Catholics are offended by this, but i'm really no big fan of this particular pronouncement by his pontiffness. Or the Vatican withholding aid/patronage etc from those who promote it etc. If that's what's behind a lot of bouncing Mexican babies as well - well, that's annoying.
If it's just them spreading the family net wide - well, if your net's too heavy to haul in, then you can't handle it, and it can't look after you. That's to act like a fool :shrugging-smilie:

Oh wait, i haven't stopped.
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Back to The Shining, wasn't most of what Cait described part of Stephen King's novel? So wouldn't that make them King's ideas that Kubrick incorporated into the film? I read the book, but it's been almost 20 years, but I seem to remember most of that Native American stuff from the novel.
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Originally Posted by Mark
Back to The Shining, wasn't most of what Cait described part of Stephen King's novel? So wouldn't that make them King's ideas that Kubrick incorporated into the film? I read the book, but it's been almost 20 years, but I seem to remember most of that Native American stuff from the novel.
I've read the book about three times, but can't remember for the life of me, whether it did or didn't.



Thanks Mark, for bringing people back to the point.

Also I am sorry if my thing about Australia day re named by my indigenous friends sparked some anger etc, it wasn't ment to.

Welfare is for all of us regardless of our background, if I am ever unemployed and penniless then I am also entitled to benefits thank god.

Sorry again.
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I am having a nervous breakdance
Slay, I think you have a point in the part where you say that whites as a race don't have a responsibility towards native americans and african americans only because they're white. I believe the responsibility lies on the government.

As for the rest of the post.. I just can't find much in it that I sympathise with.
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The novelist does not long to see the lion eat grass. He realizes that one and the same God created the wolf and the lamb, then smiled, "seeing that his work was good".

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They had temporarily escaped the factories, the warehouses, the slaughterhouses, the car washes - they'd be back in captivity the next day but
now they were out - they were wild with freedom. They weren't thinking about the slavery of poverty. Or the slavery of welfare and food stamps. The rest of us would be all right until the poor learned how to make atom bombs in their basements.



I shouldn't have posted my veiw, because it's obviously unpopular. However, just to make something clear, I am not racist. I've had friends and lovers of all different varieties and flavors. It's just that where I live, it is a huge melting pot. Oregon has a huge influx of Mexican immigrants, and me riding the train everyday, I see the same thing constantly. It just irritates me, I can't help it. I can also go on and on about things that drive me nuts about my fellow white Americans (Jerry Springer and Jenny Jones audiences, 'nuff said), so it's not race or cultural differences that bother me. It's ignorance (which I know I can be accused of) and the expectations of a few that does.

Sorry for posting off topic and expressing my tiredness.



Originally Posted by LordSlaytan
I shouldn't have posted my veiw, because it's obviously unpopular. However, just to make something clear, I am not racist. .
You are entitled to your opinion even if people don't agree, I still like you, and hey we all post off topic.



Back to The Shining, wasn't most of what Cait described part of Stephen King's novel?
Nope.

In many cases, Kubrick departed from the source text quite significantly. You'll notice that the film is referred to as "Stanley Kubrick's" The Shining, and not as "Stephen King's".

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe King actually disowned the film version of his story. There was a mini-series in the 1990s that used his name, and it was much more faithful to the original text.

Also I am sorry if my thing about Australia day re named by my indigenous friends sparked some anger etc, it wasn't ment to.
It didn't spark any anger. Just suprise, I guess.
But then, not everyone shares my opinion, which is that we should strive to be one people as opposed to two that are constantly at each other.
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Originally Posted by LordSlaytan


In the Pacific Northwest, where I live, there was a big stir a few years ago about a local tribe of Indians who wanted to hunt a whale. This particular breed of whale had just come off the endangered list and since that happened, the tribe demanded that they be given permission to practice an old custom. Now, had I gone out and killed one of these whales, I would have been arrested by the Dept. of the Interior, but it came to pass that they were allowed. Why was it so important for them to do this after they hadn’t for many years? This tribe owns a casino and is worth millions of dollars, so it wasn’t to feed their children, but they were frothing at the mouth and very angry about their “rights”. In the end, they hunted the whale, killed it, and there was no report about what they did with it. Here were 5 Indians in a fiberglass boat, a state of the art harpoon, and wearing their blue jeans and baseball caps. How authentic. I’m still angry about this special consideration.
Are you talking about the Makah Indians? If so, they have been whalers for centuries and were guaranteed the right to continue whaling in a treaty signed by the US Government in the 1800’s in exchange for hundreds of thousands of acres of land… The Makah voluntarily stopped whaling in the early part of the 1900’s because the gray whale was endangered, thereby foregoing a tradition that has religious significance to them. When the gray whale was no longer endangered, the tribe decided to start whaling again and even though it was unnecessary, they asked for permission from the government and it was granted. From what I understand, the harpoon that was used was due to an agreement the tribe made with the International Whaling Commission as was the decision to shoot the whale once it had been harpooned to end the animal's suffering… and each member of the tribe received a portion of the whale meat… and just because the tribe has a casino in no way means it is rich… it just means it is trying to be self-sufficient and not rely on handouts from anyone…
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Originally Posted by Caitlyn
Are you talking about the Makah Indians? If so, they have been whalers for centuries and were guaranteed the right to continue whaling in a treaty signed by the US Government in the 1800’s in exchange for hundreds of thousands of acres of land… The Makah voluntarily stopped whaling in the early part of the 1900’s because the gray whale was endangered, thereby foregoing a tradition that has religious significance to them. When the gray whale was no longer endangered, the tribe decided to start whaling again and even though it was unnecessary, they asked for permission from the government and it was granted. From what I understand, the harpoon that was used was due to an agreement the tribe made with the International Whaling Commission as was the decision to shoot the whale once it had been harpooned to end the animal's suffering… and each member of the tribe received a portion of the whale meat… and just because the tribe has a casino in no way means it is rich… it just means it is trying to be self-sufficient and not rely on handouts from anyone…
I said I was ignorant, what more do you want professor?



Originally Posted by Piddzilla
Slay, I think you have a point in the part where you say that whites as a race don't have a responsibility towards native americans and african americans only because they're white. I believe the responsibility lies on the government.
...a government which is presumably funded by the people. You can say the responsibility lies on the government, and not the majority race, but it ultimately comes to the same thing.



Is it true that Stephen King hated the movie??

Does anyone know what it was about the movie that he didn't like, I thought it was great, and that Jack was very good as the writer descending into madness.

Colleen McCullough also hated the terrible mini series they made of the "Thorn Birds" and she let everyone know, I know it isn't in the same league as "The Shinning", anyone could see why she hated it, but not sure why Stephen would not like "The Shinning"



Well, in many ways it wasn't at all loyal to his source text. Which, while I love the film myself, is a perfectly good reason for King to be displeased by it.

Mind you, we're talking about Kubrick, so surely King couldn't have been expecting something that wouldn't be profoundly marked by the man. Everything Kubrick touched just screamed out his name.



Originally Posted by The Silver Bullet
Well, in many ways it wasn't at all loyal to his source text. Which, while I love the film myself, is a perfectly good reason for King to be displeased by it.

Mind you, we're talking about Kubrick, so surely King couldn't have been expecting something that wouldn't be profoundly marked by the man. Everything Kubrick touched just screamed out his name.
OK, i haven't read any of Stephen Kings Books. Do you remember what parts weren't true to the text?



Originally Posted by nebbit
OK, i haven't read any of Stephen Kings Books. Do you remember what parts weren't true to the text?
The entire ending differs from the book.