RIP Fidel Castro

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The problem is many people only skim the surface when it comes to political figures. Or popular figures in general. I mean take someone like Mother Teresa, who is revered by most, especially in pop culture. Yet you delve deeper into her history and you'll find an entirely different person than the saint everyone deems her to be. But I digress. This isn't entirely their fault when the media plays a big role in shaping the opinions of their respective culture. Sure, we should all know better by now, but many still have faith in the media to give them unbiased news, showing every angle possible to a particular story. Unfortunately, it just doesn't work that way. So then you end up with someone thinking a dictator who oppressed his people and used his power for his own benefit is someone to revere. Even if we assume he started out with good intentions, the end result was anything but.



To be honest I always thought he was fairly well regarded and a key figure in socialist movements, and everyone I know in person has said they they thought he was a good leader. And the reaction I have seen from sources I subscribe to and that are generally positive.
This doesn't surprise me at all. In fact, this is what I thought the topic would ultimately end up being about: I figured I'd mention his abuses, a handful of members from overseas would say "wow, I didn't know most of that," and then we'd get into why various news sources from around the world had done such a poor job of accurately representing his life.

Is this a reference to me? Because if so it's a false statement as I have never said I can't understand how people could vote for Trump, I wouldn't vote for him, and I disagree with people who do, but I can understand it.
No, not meant to be a reference to you, or anyone specifically. Though if we delve into people's worldviews, I suspect we'll find positions that end up being awfully close to this. For example, I imagine you agree that he's had an authoritarian tone, and are/were concerned by it, which is nigh impossible to reconcile with the support for a man who did far worse things than Trump even vaguely suggested, in his worst moments.



A little more on Castro's horrendous gay rights record:

It wasn’t long after Castro came to power that police began rounding up gay men. In 1965, the regime established prison work camps known as Military Units to Aid Production (UMAP), into which it deposited homosexuals, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and other “undesirable” elements.

...

Though the Cuban regime closed down the UMAPs in the late 1960s, it continued to repress gay men as ideologically subversive elements. Openly homosexual people were prevented from joining the Communist Party and fired from their jobs. One of the country’s most distinguished writers, Reinaldo Arenas, recounted the prison experience he and countless other gay men endured in his memoir Before Night Falls. “It was a sweltering place without a bathroom,” he wrote. “Gays were not treated like human beings, they were treated like beasts. They were the last ones to come out for meals, so we saw them walk by, and the most insignificant incident was an excuse to beat them mercilessly.”



Last night on the radio, a reporter said that Castro was responsible for the deaths of 10,000 innocents - and these are the known accounts. The report said this was a conservative minimum estimate and the actual number of unknown people murdered or indirectly caused to die by the Castro regime may be much higher: upwards of 100,000.



OoooK then. I can definitely see why they were celebrating in the streets of Miami now.



If you agree with any of these statements strongly:

- Gays should not be killed/harrassed for simply being gay;
- A leader should not emprison/kill people who disagree with his way of governing;
- A nation deserves a free press, not one controlled by the government;
- Non-criminal people should be able to leave their country when they want to;
- People have a right to own something privately. Not everything should be owned by the government primarily;

I think you should at least recognize that Castro demonstrably violated that particular statement (he violated all of them) and think about that fact profoundly, before trying to observe which aspects of his reign may have been somewhat positive.

I've said it to Daniel in a private conversation already, but I'll say it pubicly here as well: the first thing you should do when judging a nation's leader, is trying to empathize with the experiences of all the people who had to live under his/her leadership. In Castro's case, it's very clear to me that large and essential parts of that experience would be profoundly stifling and scary.
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Well, he was a dictator. There were worse though. I understand Americans may see him as the greatest evil of all time, but charactes-wise, I see him as not the worst. Obviously an evil guy, let's not fool around here. But he's human like all of us and he deserves peace. RIP



I'm running out of things to say, but to this point I've mostly just pointed out that, whatever benefits Castro has allowed his people, they've come at a terrible cost.

But it's actually worse than that. I want to detail how illusory those benefits are, anyway, as well as call into question the idea that he meant well, whatever the results.

First, the supposed benefits. Many people have dissected Cuba's health care system (Google for 30 seconds and you'll find them), but you can find a decent summary in The Myth of Cuban Health Care. Here's a quote:

Then there is the real Cuban system, the one that ordinary people must use — and it is wretched. Testimony and documentation on the subject are vast. Hospitals and clinics are crumbling. Conditions are so unsanitary, patients may be better off at home, whatever home is. If they do have to go to the hospital, they must bring their own bedsheets, soap, towels, food, light bulbs — even toilet paper. And basic medications are scarce. In Sicko, even sophisticated medications are plentiful and cheap. In the real Cuba, finding an aspirin can be a chore. And an antibiotic will fetch a fortune on the black market.

A nurse spoke to Isabel Vincent of Canada’s National Post. “We have nothing,” said the nurse. “I haven’t seen aspirin in a Cuban store here for more than a year. If you have any pills in your purse, I’ll take them. Even if they have passed their expiry date.” The equipment that doctors have to work with is either antiquated or nonexistent. Doctors have been known to reuse latex gloves — there is no choice. When they travel to the island, on errands of mercy, American doctors make sure to take as much equipment and as many supplies as they can carry. One told the Associated Press, “The [Cuban] doctors are pretty well trained, but they have nothing to work with. It’s like operating with knives and spoons.”
Second, on the infant mortality numbers, expounding on the "depends on what you count as an infant" thing I alluded to earlier (emphasis added):

The regime is very keen on keeping infant mortality down, knowing that the world looks to this statistic as an indicator of the general health of a country. Cuban doctors are instructed to pay particular attention to prenatal and infant care. A woman’s pregnancy is closely monitored. (The regime manages to make the necessary equipment available.) And if there is any sign of abnormality, any reason for concern — the pregnancy is “interrupted.” That is the going euphemism for abortion. The abortion rate in Cuba is sky-high, perversely keeping the infant-mortality rate down.
As to his intentions: if they were so noble, why did his personal fortune explode, while the standard of living for Cubans remained stagnant for decades?




what about che guevera ? was he a better person and more really committed to the socialist cause ?



The problem is many people only skim the surface when it comes to political figures. Or popular figures in general. I mean take someone like Mother Teresa, who is revered by most, especially in pop culture. Yet you delve deeper into her history and you'll find an entirely different person than the saint everyone deems her to be. But I digress. This isn't entirely their fault when the media plays a big role in shaping the opinions of their respective culture. Sure, we should all know better by now, but many still have faith in the media to give them unbiased news, showing every angle possible to a particular story. Unfortunately, it just doesn't work that way. So then you end up with someone thinking a dictator who oppressed his people and used his power for his own benefit is someone to revere. Even if we assume he started out with good intentions, the end result was anything but.

mother teresa used to deny painkillers to those sick people she cared for because she believed that pain and suffering was the path to heaven . and she tried to convert anyone who got close to her to christianity , something that was not liked by many hindus .



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mother teresa used to deny painkillers to those sick people she cared for because she believed that pain and suffering was the path to heaven . and she tried to convert anyone who got close to her to christianity , something that was not liked by many hindus .
Maybe you'd like this:




This thread reminds me that I am have become an Adolf Hitler fan actually. After I read some biographies of him I undertood him better and now I greatly admire his passion, persistence, simplicity and strenght of will even though I would disagree with his methods and ideology. Hitler was the most important person to live in the last 140 years or so and also the most evil. Fidel is a similar figure in that sense: a very memorable evil character. Although Fidel never had Hitler's balls.

Usually the most important and memorable people are also the worst because the "greatest" thing a person can do is to kill other people. Nothing comes to negative impact since destruction is easier than creation.



This thread reminds me that I am have become an Adolf Hitler fan actually. After I read some biographies of him I undertood him better and now I greatly admire his passion, persistence, simplicity and strenght of will even though I would disagree with his methods and ideology. Hitler was the most important person to live in the last 140 years or so and also the most evil. Fidel is a similar figure in that sense: a very memorable evil character. Although Fidel never had Hitler's balls.

Usually the most important and memorable people are also the worst because the "greatest" thing a person can do is to kill other people. Nothing comes to negative impact since destruction is easier than creation.


Well, he was Time Magazine's 1938 "Man of the Year".




Sorry if I'm rude but I'm right
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This gave me a good chuckle.

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