Westworld

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At this point, with the guns or anything else, I'm just filing it all under "we don't know their exact level of technological advancement."

Heck, I'm still fairly convinced the park isn't located where we're all assuming (IE: some random place in the desert).



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WARNING: "REDDIT Fan Theory & Episode 4" spoilers below
The Reddit theory is cool and interesting, but the fact that Dolores is experiencing her awakening due to the reveries while she is physically with the white hat sort of shoots that theory full of holes for me. The reveries are clearly new and in the present, right?
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Yes, they seem to be happening now (whatever "now" is), since that is when Bernard, et al., are dealing with them and trying to figure out how/if to roll them back. Also, I'm going to rewatch everything so far, to make sure that the Reddit theory from earlier really is debunked in my mind. We certainly haven't been given any real sense of *when* any of this is taking place... though we keep getting hints that this park has been around a long time. It sounds more like a version of Disney World now (with middle-aged characters saying they came there as children, etc.). And it's been largely successful and error free... until now. Which is, of course, why the story occurs now.

The player piano image keeps coming up, and I keep liking it more and more as a metaphor for the hosts and staff.

One more question: Does it seem as if most of the folks we see strolling around are hosts? We seem to see so few guests, statistically speaking. At one point we're told that removing 200 infected hosts would mean 10% of the total, so there are about 2,000 hosts. At another point we are told there are currently, 1,400 guests in the park. So yes, there are more hosts than guests, but it's not even a 2 to 1 margin. So why do we seem to see almost all hosts? I keep trying to look among crowds strolling down the street for people who look like guests, but I see so few who are acting like guests would act.



I'm still unsure on the time stuff, but I'm definitely where I was last week: if that is what's happening, they've got a frustrating mix of clever hints about it, and overly misleading ones that would make it feel like a bit of a cheat.



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Oh, I forgot to mention that little campfire scene where another guest tries to thank the Man in Black for his foundation's work in saving his sister. That was a real bend in the proceedings. So what does this guy DO in the real world? Whatever it is, he desperately feels the need to make this place his vacation, where he can torture and kill at will. Hmmm...



OooooK then! Im watching the pilot for the first time, realized when seeing the credits Jonathan Nolan is behind this, see Ed Harris, am 15 minutes into this, and am sold. Now Im wondering if all the humans are gonna be the villains.

I never saw the original Westworld, though knew the premise. I never watch commercials for films if I can help it since those are the best scenes, so going into things like this Im not "up to speed" on all the details, like most. Ill read the thread when Im caught up with the current episode.

This could be good.



Sorry Harmonica.......I got to stay here.
The original movie was pretty simplistic and seems pretty campy now. This show has taken the premise light years ahead--so good
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Yet another bit from Episode 4: When the Native Americans are walking down the street and one child drops a wooden "doll" with red and white coloring like Maeve's memories of the clean-up crew standing over her. When she asks the man standing next to her about the doll, he says, "That there's part of their religion..."

So is this simply a larger metaphor for how we view God/our maker? The hosts are coming up with their own religion based on their own "near-death" experiences? It's a bit trite, but it definitely seems like they're using this idea as one of the undercurrent subplots, at least.

And I'm still mulling over how Maeve got an actual bullet inside her. Is it possible that the men who were "operating" on her actually PUT it there? In other words, those guns work the way I assumed they did and have sensors triggering the hosts to "bleed," but for some ulterior reason, they planted a spent bullet inside Maeve, perhaps as an experiment. No? Yes?

Yes, I realize I'm overthinking every possibility this early on, but that's half the fun with sci-fi, isn't it? Figuring out how the world works?



Finished the pilot.

whoa!

Thats the best damn pilot Ive seen in years! There are so many story possibilities for this show,
WARNING: spoilers below
and I love the fact she killed that fly in the last scene.
The Johnny Cash song topped it all off nicely.




And I'm still mulling over how Maeve got an actual bullet inside her. Is it possible that the men who were "operating" on her actually PUT it there? In other words, those guns work the way I assumed they did and have sensors triggering the hosts to "bleed," but for some ulterior reason, they planted a spent bullet inside Maeve, perhaps as an experiment. No? Yes?
I think there actually are bullets. During William's first gun fight he kind of gets shot by a robot and says to his brother-in-law: "I thought we couldn't get shot". From that moment on I assumed there were bullets in the guns that are (almost completely) harmless against humans.

Anyway, I loved this episode. Yoda's interesting interpretation of Ford still stands as well.
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The original movie was pretty simplistic and seems pretty campy now. This show has taken the premise light years ahead--so good
I watched the movie for the first time about a month ago and was surprised by how much I liked it. It's certainly very campy and goofy to start with but then again, it's meant to be that way and I like the fact that the robots turning to murdering their guests is presented as what it is: robots killing people is bad.

Very little is made of the sentience or AI of these objects and I was glad for that. Not everything has to be a deep musing on the human condition.

Having said that, I like the direction that the show has gone in although I miss the fun elements of the movie. My issue is, after watching ep 4, they keep piling up the questions and have delivered only a couple of answers to a couple of very basic plot points. Even lost didn't build up so many questions in its first 4 eps.
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My issue is, after watching ep 4, they keep piling up the questions and have delivered only a couple of answers to a couple of very basic plot points. Even lost didn't build up so many questions in its first 4 eps.
Im on episode 3 and this is coming off much more structured, sensible, and consistent than LOST was the last 3 seasons. I dont think theyre just "saying stuff", thats not the m.o. of the people involved with this show. If theyre introducing something its a plotline to come, not sizzle with no steak.

Those first 3 seasons of LOST though, as good a tv show as any.



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In regards to the theory we were discussing. Going to wrap this in tags so I don't spoil things for others (Tongo - do NOT read this until you are caught up):

WARNING: "Episode 3 & 4 / Time Theory" spoilers below
TLDR = We are watching two time periods, but are tricked into thinking we are watching one with clever editing.

After watching episode 4, I was pretty sure the two time period thing just didn't work. Some friends came by last night, and they hadn't watched either episode 3 or 4, so I thought it was a good time to give episodes 3 and 4 a re-watch, this time with the aim of specifically examining the scenes that had seemed to debunk the time period theory.

There were two scene sequences in particular that seemed to blow the theory out of the water, clearly and obviously, the first time I watched:

Episode 3: The scene where Dolores returns home to her farm at night, alone, and runs into her usual story thread with the attack on her farmhouse, during which her parents are killed, followed by a scene in which Dolores wanders into William and Logan's camp and then collapses into William's arms. There is a weird glitch that occurs her where the scene plays out twice in succession with two different outcomes.

Episode 4: A series of scenes in sequence that show people in the map room stating a host has deviated pretty far outside her loop (clearly in the present), immediately followed by a scene with Dolores in the small Spanish village, during which she first talks to the little maze girl, after which she is harassed by a man. While getting harassed, William steps out of a building and intervenes, after which, he leaves with Dolores, Logan, et. al.

My biggest error was assuming that the awakening in Dolores that we are following has only happened once, and that it is happening exclusively in the present. I believe this is not the case at all, and that she has awakened dozens, or perhaps hundreds of times. Keep that in mind as we proceed along here.

The farm scene uses tricky editing to purposely cause confusion with the viewer. The apparent glitch in Dolores is actually cross-cutting between the two time periods. The version in which she gets shot is in the present, while the version in which she gets away and ends up in William's camp is in the past. The cross-cutting is purposefully switched back and forth to make it extremely confusing, but if we pay attention to the objects and events in the scenes, the evidence is clear in regards to the two time periods.

- In the version in the past, Dolores takes a gun from her would-be rapist, and shoots him in the throat. The gun is shiny and clean; she then buries the gun near her farm and runs off (we don't see this, but she digs the gun up in the present, at which point it is old and dirty), ending up at William's camp. She drops hints that she is in the middle of an awakening at the camp, but this is a past awakening.

- She sees different versions of her father during the attack, which seem like a glitch her her programming, but it is more cross-cutting.

- Walter is not present in the present attack (he was retired in a past episode), but is there in the past.

- First scene of episode 4 is the aftermath of the present day attack. Dolores has been repaired but not wiped. She is upset her parents have been killed. The only time she would be in the lab with memories of her parents being killed would be after getting repaired after that attack.


Episode 4 scene sequence - Lab, talk about host out of her loop, Spanish village etc.

This scene is brilliantly edited, and tricky as all get out. We are shown present day comments outside the park about Dolores being out of her loop, but when pushed for specific info as to whether or not she is with a host, the tech replies with "that is not clear." or "unsure" or something along those lines. Cut immediately to present-day Dolores in the village, where she starts talking to Maze Girl. Maze girl says "Don't you remember?" Dolores goes all glitchy again, but once again, this is time period cross-cutting. Suddenly we are in the past, Maze Girl disappears and is no longer in front of Dolores. Dolores is approached by a villainous host or guest, it is unclear which, but the confrontation is interrupted by William. This gives the impression that we are in the present with a glitchy Dolores, but this is two separate loop deviations/awakenings.


I believe Dolores has a regular narrative loop on script in the park, and a larger meta-loops, in which she keeps becoming self-aware. Then she gets "fixed" and starts the process all over again. I believe Bernard is trying to free her from the meta-loop.


Cutting it here, as it is getting to long. Will go into more detail if needed.



Just finished episode 3

WARNING: spoilers below
I think Hopkins assistant may have really opened Pandoras Box with the conversation with Deloris. He told her "No scripted responses, improvisation only." Then they talked, but he never said go back to scripted responses. Is this like Simon Says?! Her change of actions were sudden.

Also could this be like the "Borg" from Star Trek where if you affect one unit, it would affect them all? I doubt it, but it would explain why he robot trapped in the crevice destroyed himself rather than kill the engineer.


Of course if all this is explained in episode 4 which I havent seen yet, nevermind what I said.



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TONGO is really advertising this everywhere. Now I'm going to have to check it out.
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why arnt they looking for dolores`? why hasnt there been any mention of the man she killed?

also,very interesting theory sedai,you guys sure pick up on a lot of things i dont.
in regards to the bullets thing,i always assumed there were real bullets but since the hosts cant shoot at the humans theyre not dangerous to them.like dolores couldnt pull the trigged (until she could) i think the other hosts who do shot are made to miss.
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why arnt they looking for dolores`? why hasnt there been any mention of the man she killed?

also,very interesting theory sedai,you guys sure pick up on a lot of things i dont.
in regards to the bullets thing,i always assumed there were real bullets but since the hosts cant shoot at the humans theyre not dangerous to them.like dolores couldnt pull the trigged (until she could) i think the other hosts who do shot are made to miss.
Well, why couldn't a human guest shoot another guest?

Frankly, that bullet inside Maeve looked like it would have done some real damage had it hit a guest. Whatever hit William wasn't something like that, I think. For one thing, he would have seen it on the ground since it didn't penetrate the skin.

Anyway, I still have questions about that... and I have a feeling we're supposed to be scratching our heads at that, at this point.

I don't mind that the first four episodes have asked more questions than they've answered. It feels as if they have answers for each of those questions but have chosen not to share them with us quite this early. And I'm totally okay with that. It's part of what makes the show so compelling.



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Seds, there is SO MUCH detail in your post that I am going to have to absorb it a little bit. I think a rewatch will help me, too... once I have a spreadsheet in place of everything your positing. LOL



Halfway thru 4th episode. Really am happy to see Ed Harris and Anthony Hopkins in something good, and most every week (havent seen Hopkins in this episode yet). I know Hopkins likes westerns and wanted to do them. Its why he did Legends Of The Fall, and probably this series. Of course Ed Harris likes westerns too. Hey, I liked Appaloosa