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Still, average film goers shouldn't really have much of a say/impact on the consensus ranking of a film's greatness
Does anyone else agree that There Will Be Blood will eventually be...
considered a top ten movie all time?
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Guessing you're pretty religious?
If I were to concoct a similar list...
Just off the top of my head (and obviously only including stuff I've seen) -
10.Inglorious Basterds
9.Stalker
8.The Godfather
7.The Trial
6.2001
5.Winter Light
4.Vertigo
3.Tree of Life
2.There Will Be Blood
1.Citizen Kane
If I were to concoct a similar list...
Just off the top of my head (and obviously only including stuff I've seen) -
10.Inglorious Basterds
9.Stalker
8.The Godfather
7.The Trial
6.2001
5.Winter Light
4.Vertigo
3.Tree of Life
2.There Will Be Blood
1.Citizen Kane
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I think entertainment value should always be a consideration when talking about the greatest films, entertainment is what makes films accessible to the masses. This is one of my strongest arguments for why "The birth of a nation" does not belong on the list. I believe, tomorrow, you randomly picked out 100 americans and had them watch it, ALL 100 would hate it and be bored to death. How can you justify something that hardly anyone likes or enjoys as one of the greatest films ever made?
Consider this - One of most prolific screen writing books in the industry is called "Save the cat"
From wikipedia - "The title Save the Cat! is a term coined by Snyder and describes the scene where the audience meets the hero of a movie for the first time. The hero does something nice, e.g., saving a cat, which makes the audience like the hero and sympathise with him."
It is SO vital to a movie that we like the protagonist that he named his entire screenwriting book after a trope to accomplish this end. Granted I am most definitely not the average film goer.. I don't think anyone on this website is. We welcome a break from convention and sometimes crave it. As I said I enjoyed the movie.. but you asked what people don't like about it and I did my best to give you an answer.
Consider this - One of most prolific screen writing books in the industry is called "Save the cat"
From wikipedia - "The title Save the Cat! is a term coined by Snyder and describes the scene where the audience meets the hero of a movie for the first time. The hero does something nice, e.g., saving a cat, which makes the audience like the hero and sympathise with him."
It is SO vital to a movie that we like the protagonist that he named his entire screenwriting book after a trope to accomplish this end. Granted I am most definitely not the average film goer.. I don't think anyone on this website is. We welcome a break from convention and sometimes crave it. As I said I enjoyed the movie.. but you asked what people don't like about it and I did my best to give you an answer.
Save the Cat! is the hack bible. It should never be used as a baseline for evaluating the "greatest films of all time" considering most of those we hold to that standard defy the vast majority of that fartmouth's "rules."
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My Top 10 films in terms of technicality:
10. Star Wars
9. Blade Runner
8. The Shawshank Redemption
7. The Passion Of The Christ
6. Unforgiven
5. Jaws
4. Close Encounters Of The Third Kind
3. The Green Mile
2. Saving Private Ryan
1. Pan's Labyrinth
Those lists from AFI, IMDb, RT or wherever just go by age most of the time. Just because a movie was made in the 50s, doesn't make it classic, or good.
10. Star Wars
9. Blade Runner
8. The Shawshank Redemption
7. The Passion Of The Christ
6. Unforgiven
5. Jaws
4. Close Encounters Of The Third Kind
3. The Green Mile
2. Saving Private Ryan
1. Pan's Labyrinth
Those lists from AFI, IMDb, RT or wherever just go by age most of the time. Just because a movie was made in the 50s, doesn't make it classic, or good.
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I believe James Cameron's Avatar will probably become one of the greatest films ever made according to critical consensus in the far future. Currently it obviously will not be considered a masterpiece, one of the reasons is that it's popularity makes it an unpopular choice for film critics, since they, to differentiate themselves from the ignorant masses, support less well known films. In 50 years, when computer animation would be as easy as it is today to record an youtube video, a film like Avatar will certainly be seem as a major influence and the fact that it affected the childhood of many people today, which will grow up having fond memories of it, will make it a less forgettable film than relatively obscure films we have today. Also, James Cameron is not well respected today, regarded as producer of simplistic entertainment for the masses, the same applies to Hitchcock in the 1950's. As Hitchcock's films stopped being shown in the cinemas, the director became well regarded critically. There is nothing objective about this process since movies are a purely subjective experience, psychological factors are supremely important in determining how well regarded a film is by the snobs.
Also, given that China will rise to become the world's dominant cultural power in the next decades, the taste of Chinese critics will determine the top films lists, so I expect a Chinese film in first place of a pool made 50 years in the future, like City of Sadness, or probably a film that hasn't yet been filmed, rather than Hollywood films, though they will still show up in the top 20 list given their influence, like 5-6 Hollywood films will probably show up (similar proportion to current Sign and Sound Pool ranking).
Also, given that China will rise to become the world's dominant cultural power in the next decades, the taste of Chinese critics will determine the top films lists, so I expect a Chinese film in first place of a pool made 50 years in the future, like City of Sadness, or probably a film that hasn't yet been filmed, rather than Hollywood films, though they will still show up in the top 20 list given their influence, like 5-6 Hollywood films will probably show up (similar proportion to current Sign and Sound Pool ranking).
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It'll most certainly make it on the list, although where exactly it ends up is a matter of some speculation. I believe that it'll end up near the top, although I can't exactly say where. It's a remarkable piece of cinema.
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There will be Blood is great, but I don't think it is a genuine masterpiece. It's not even in the same league as something like Citizen Kane and whatnot.
I think There Will Be Blood is probably the best film in the last 30 years... The "oil" is more of a metaphor for the system. The movie deals with so many themes. Brilliantly written, no waste, great acting, and how religion and business are the same.
I love history, but there is VERY little written about Jesus. He's mentioned by Josephus to his Roman bosses, as the brother of James, when he's killed, as one of many who call themselves the messiah. People knew about him because for a hundred years the Jews tried to overthrow the Romans with no success until the beginning of the first century.
I love history, but there is VERY little written about Jesus. He's mentioned by Josephus to his Roman bosses, as the brother of James, when he's killed, as one of many who call themselves the messiah. People knew about him because for a hundred years the Jews tried to overthrow the Romans with no success until the beginning of the first century.
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It's funny, cause I'm a HUGE Paul Thomas Anderson fan, but still... There Will Be Blood is probably my least favourite of his apart from his debut. I feel like TWBB is where Anderson is least himself. Like he was intentionally going for the big one, with the small details and all, hoping this would be the movie to win awards. A true critic-pleaser film.
I still like it a lot though, but it's not my fav of his.
I still like it a lot though, but it's not my fav of his.
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It's funny, cause I'm a HUGE Paul Thomas Anderson fan, but still... There Will Be Blood is probably my least favourite of his apart from his debut. I feel like TWBB is where Anderson is least himself. Like he was intentionally going for the big one, with the small details and all, hoping this would be the movie to win awards. A true critic-pleaser film.
I still like it a lot though, but it's not my fav of his.
I still like it a lot though, but it's not my fav of his.
I found TWBB to be a powerful experience, and upon first viewing (only seen it once actually, need to watch again) it really affected me. But then as time went by I found it more and more forgetful. I wouldn't go as far to say it was merely Oscar bait, because there are some challenging themes and a powerhouse performance from DDL of course. But even so, I agree with the sentiment that it is the most idiosyncratic in his oeuvre in terms of his style.
Boogie Nights and Magnolia are my favourites by him; two of my all time favourites in fact.
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Same here man!
I found TWBB to be a powerful experience, and upon first viewing (only seen it once actually, need to watch again) it really affected me. But then as time went by I found it more and more forgetful. I wouldn't go as far to say it was merely Oscar bait, because there are some challenging themes and a powerhouse performance from DDL of course. But even so, I agree with the sentiment that it is the most idiosyncratic in his oeuvre in terms of his style.
Boogie Nights and Magnolia are my favourites by him; two of my all time favourites in fact.
I found TWBB to be a powerful experience, and upon first viewing (only seen it once actually, need to watch again) it really affected me. But then as time went by I found it more and more forgetful. I wouldn't go as far to say it was merely Oscar bait, because there are some challenging themes and a powerhouse performance from DDL of course. But even so, I agree with the sentiment that it is the most idiosyncratic in his oeuvre in terms of his style.
Boogie Nights and Magnolia are my favourites by him; two of my all time favourites in fact.
And yeah Boogie Nights and Magnolia are freaking amazing!
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Idk, I know what you like is what you like, but if we're talking about greatness, I feel like there should be an attempt at objectivity (I know there's no true objectivity as far as taste goes, but I hope you understand what I'm getting at). DDL was absolutely unlikable... but that's the story it was telling. For what it was (something I absolutely loved), I think it was almost perfect in getting its message/story across.
This is one of my favorite movies and I actually like his character very much. Maybe that's just my weirdness though.
The alcoholism, abandoning his son, that he hates everyone, that he is greedy and a murderer ?
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I could see TWBB getting up pretty high on that list. I thought I was going to be bored, but I was captivated throughout. Masterful filmmaking and acting IMO.
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I don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet but There Will Be Blood is actually nr. 75 on the Sight & Sound 2012 Directors' Top 100 films. Which is quite a feat, considering how few modern movies are on that list.
I'm thinking it will go up as time passes by.
I'm thinking it will go up as time passes by.
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