Re: R-rated rape scenes in all kind of movies.
Well, if Choke was any indication, some women have rape fantasies. As long as it's between consenting adults, I don't see much of a problem.
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Re: R-rated rape scenes in all kind of movies.
oh I thought he/she might be doing some college work. oh well I must be getting more naive as I get older :(
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Originally Posted by ash_is_the_gal (Post 595538)
what? not everyone who has a rape fetish is a criminal, Caity. some are well-adjusted, functioning individuals. ahem.
Somehow, I get the impression you're referring more to fantasies of being the victim though... whereas I'm referring more to the rapist themselves... |
Originally Posted by Caitlyn (Post 595548)
The point I was trying to make is that a very large number of criminals do/did have those types of fantasies... particularly serial killers. As for the general public, who knows how many do have those types of fetishes and function normally... but when anyone asks for movies of this nature, it sends up a red flag with me as the majority of the time when I've dealt with the criminal side of this, the offender normally had a large collection of films dealing with rape...
Somehow, I get the impression you're referring more to fantasies of being the victim though... whereas I'm referring more to the rapist themselves... |
I didn't really think of him as a sick freak who needed locked up... but it struck me as rather odd he would show up out of the blue and ask for something of that nature without even pretending to offer an explanation... why not just cruise the net to find films of that nature instead of bringing attention to yourself by asking?
As for the people you know with the fantasies... as long as they are acted out between consenting adults and no one gets hurt, its their business... |
Re: R-rated rape scenes in all kind of movies.
I understand the idea of "role playing" and I have no issue with that at all. The problem I have, is that actual rape is not role playing. Incidently, I really had no issues with the initial post other than thinking it was a bit out of nowwhere, which really is not that big of a deal in and of itself.
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Re: R-rated rape scenes in all kind of movies.
On the surface, harmless fantasies seem to be just that -- harmless. But ask yourself if there's any fantasy or fetish you would find off-putting, or creepy? I'll bet there is. And if there is, then we have to acknowledge that, on some level, we all know that our fantasies say a little something about us. And once we do that, drawing a distinction between good/harmless fantasies and unhealthy/harmful ones is inevitable. Actions are paramount, sure, but daydreaming about bad things all day isn't perfectly benign, either.
It doesn't have to be boiled down to extremes, besides. If this person is "into" this sort of thing, it doesn't mean they must either be perfectly normal, or else a "sick freak." It could just be an unhealthy obsession. It doesn't mean they're automatically a danger to anyone, but ruling that out doesn't mean everything's perfectly fine. Anyway, I did float the possibility on the first page of this thread that this person might just be doing homework, but most people doing that sort of thing say so, to avoid exactly the kind of reaction we're seeing now. |
Originally Posted by 7thson (Post 595561)
The problem I have, is that actual rape is not role playing.
Exactly... |
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 595566)
It doesn't have to be boiled down to extremes, besides. If this person is "into" this sort of thing, it doesn't mean they must either be perfectly normal, or else a "sick freak." It could just be an unhealthy obsession.
but why does it have to be labeled an unhealthy obsession? do you honestly feel that anyone who would be into it has an unhealthy obsession? as far as i'm concerned, if someone has fetishes and fantasies that they like to role play with their significant other or whatever behind closed doors, i don't see what's so unhealthy about that. not if that's all they do with it. i almost feel like you think that instead of "giving into the fantasy", you think they should try to figure out why it is they have the fantasy, and correct the behavioral thought process behind it because it obviously stems from something wrong... remember that a lot of us are guilty for wanting to watch movies that are peppered with what most people would call "sick" stuff in them. for example, fans of gory horror movies like to watch violence and blood. they might even try to seek out and find every bloody movie they can in order to see as much as possible, similar to what this guy is doing. is that an unhealthy obsession, too? if so i should think we are all guilty of it, because even though we may not post a thread on a movie forum asking others to give us titles of movies that fit that criteria, we still like watching movies that have raw, disturbing images. so saying stuff like "it really bothers me why someone would want to watch movies with rape in it, that's disgusting and creepy" um, we all watch movies that have way worse in it - for entertainment, no educational purposes. |
This is indeed one of those weird threads with a funny title (to me) like the "non-porn incest movies" thread. In a way, this thread is titled similarly -- this person wants "R-rated" rape scenes. I'm sure R rated rape scenes can be pretty bad graphically and with how it is depicted, but I imagine someone who is possibly more twisted would want NC-17/X rated rape scenes.
I guess it's funny that they would ask for "R rated" rape scenes. Why R rated? Is it possible to film a PG-13 rape scene? If you were doing some kind of study for school on rape scenes in movies, why stick specifically to R rated rape scenes? I suppose it can be done, but I'm sure most people would find it odd (as we do with this thread). The R rating is practically going away these days, anyways. It exists in movie theatres -- but far too often nowadays, the R rating changes to "Unrated" (which could have made it NC-17 in theatres) when it's released on DVD. Thus, I imagine, a lot of "R rated rape scenes" exist in old films, but I'm sure there's still some new ones, I'm just not aware of them (though, maybe I'll learn a few things from this thread!) As for Ash_Is_The_Girl's comment about gory and bloody horror films... I have never really watched horror films for the blood and guts. I don't seek out these films to satisfy some inner urge to please myself by looking at blood and dead bodies. Sometimes I'm pleased by the special effects and the overall ghoulish effects, but I can get squeamish looking at that stuff. I think possible motives for me watching horror films is because A.) Monsters have always intrigued me (this applies to some horror films), B.) It's fun to get into a spooky, scary mood sometimes and C.) It's a coping mechanism to face death -- I can usually take most of the fake scary stuff, all the blood and dead bodies if it's in a movie, but don't ask me to look at dead bodies in a hospital or something. That takes more strength from me. Also, D.) It's nice to root for the heroes of horror films, the ones who are battling against the evil people. As for rape scenes... I can't say that the person who started this thread is addicted to rape scenes or something like that (obviously, he or she needs to build up their collection!). The fantasy may be there. I'm not sure why. I have no interest in building up a collection of rape scenes -- however -- if I get word that Jake Gyllenhaal, Portrait of a Rapist is being released, completely NC-17, shows off everything he has to offer -- I'm getting the Blu-ray. No question.
Originally Posted by ash_is_the_gal (Post 595584)
remember that a lot of us are guilty for wanting to watch movies that are peppered with what most people would call "sick" stuff in them. for example, fans of gory horror movies like to watch violence and blood. they might even try to seek out and find every bloody movie they can in order to see as much as possible, similar to what this guy is doing. is that an unhealthy obsession, too? if so i should think we are all guilty of it, because even though we may not post a thread on a movie forum asking others to give us titles of movies that fit that criteria, we still like watching movies that have raw, disturbing images.
The original The Texas Chainsaw Massacre is one example of a horror film that was praised by some critics at the time for being "raw" and "disturbing" -- and I guess it is. At the time it was. But now, it's very... eh... the film doesn't even show that much blood! |
Originally Posted by ash_is_the_gal (Post 595584)
but why does it have to be labeled an unhealthy obsession? do you honestly feel that anyone who would be into it has an unhealthy obsession? as far as i'm concerned, if someone has fetishes and fantasies that they like to role play with their significant other or whatever behind closed doors, i don't see what's so unhealthy about that. not if that's all they do with it. i almost feel like you think that instead of "giving into the fantasy", you think they should try to figure out why it is they have the fantasy, and correct the behavioral thought process behind it because it obviously stems from something wrong...
Rape is a really terrible thing. I'm not sure why we should brush this off as not being your or my cup of tea; I don't know that a perfectly well-adjusted person could fixate, or derive pleasure, from the thought of such a horrible thing. And I find it hard to believe that most people would do so without some sort of trauma in their lives. I keep going back to the point I made in my first post: is there any fetish that would offend you, or that you would think of as unhealthy in some fashion? I think it's pretty safe to say that there is. And if there is, then the idea that all fantasy is completely harmless goes out the window, and it becomes case-by-case.
Originally Posted by ash_is_the_gal (Post 595584)
remember that a lot of us are guilty for wanting to watch movies that are peppered with what most people would call "sick" stuff in them. for example, fans of gory horror movies like to watch violence and blood. they might even try to seek out and find every bloody movie they can in order to see as much as possible, similar to what this guy is doing. is that an unhealthy obsession, too? if so i should think we are all guilty of it, because even though we may not post a thread on a movie forum asking others to give us titles of movies that fit that criteria, we still like watching movies that have raw, disturbing images.
Originally Posted by ash_is_the_gal (Post 595584)
so saying stuff like "it really bothers me why someone would want to watch movies with rape in it, that's disgusting and creepy" um, we all watch movies that have way worse in it - for entertainment, no educational purposes.
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Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 596014)
Rape is a really terrible thing. I'm not sure why we should brush this off as not being your or my cup of tea; I don't know that a perfectly well-adjusted person could fixate, or derive pleasure, from the thought of such a horrible thing. And I find it hard to believe that most people would do so without some sort of trauma in their lives.
It's pretend because it's set up, but it could almost be close to the real thing, I'm sure, in some situations. Some people -- probably mostly guys -- probably mostly gay guys -- are THRILLED and excited by the idea of forced sex with a stranger. Go on Craigslist in the Male For Male personal ads anytime and you'll find countless ads with men looking for other men, whom they don't know at all, wanting you to come over to their house, find them naked and blindfolded and waiting to service you... Is this rape? No, but close to it! I don't think that many women desire these types of scenarios -- although I have heard of women that fantasize about being raped. I would be terrified of being raped because, A.) It'll be going somewhere that usually takes some preparation before you fool around with it, and you better fool around with it gently. B.) The chances of getting diseases, especially HIV. Not everyone likes these things, and certainly not every gay guy, but it does happen. |
Originally Posted by Yoda
It's not really the same thing, though; we're supposing that this person is interested in it for purposes of fantasizing about it. As much as I might find many horror films distasteful, I don't think most people watch them so they can fantasize about killing people themselves. If they did, wouldn't you worry about them?
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 596014)
Rape is a really terrible thing. I'm not sure why we should brush this off as not being your or my cup of tea;
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 596014)
I find it hard to believe that most people would do so without some sort of trauma in their lives.
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 596014)
I keep going back to the point I made in my first post: is there any fetish that would offend you, or that you would think of as unhealthy in some fashion? I think it's pretty safe to say that there is. And if there is, then the idea that all fantasy is completely harmless goes out the window, and it becomes case-by-case.
i don't think there is such a thing as an unhealthy fetish, because i don't think the fantasy is what makes the behavior unhealthy - it's the person. here is what i think constitutes as unhealthy: 1) when you partake in said fetish but still do not feel satisfied, meaning this: role-playing the fetish out on a fantasy level isn’t enough. you want the real thing, be it rape, incest, or any other kind of fetish which involves having power over another person or thing. 2) if immediately after you feel disgusting, worthless, or wrong. here is a link to a guy who gets his kicks [no pun intended] by being kicked in the balls [i kid you not]. this is obviously unhealthy, and not just because it’s probably not a good idea to abuse your nads, but the guy specifically says he feels disgusting and worthless immediately after doing it. if doing it makes you feel that bad, then it’s unhealthy. but what if it doesn’t? some people like to spice up their sex lives, know what i’m saying? it doesn’t make them feel bad at all, either; it’s fun, exciting, and a fresh spin on things. if doing this is enough to satisfy some deep-seated feeling from where it derives, where’s the harm? i just don’t see it. |
Originally Posted by ash_is_the_gal (Post 596124)
Yoda, i'm not. having a sexual fantasy about the idea of being raped/raping someone else and actually partaking in a real-time rape are two totally different things.
Originally Posted by ash_is_the_gal (Post 596124)
of course i don't want to be raped for real; the idea of it happening would be as terrifying and humiliating for me as it would anyone else. well, this same mentality can be said for a person on the other end of the equation (i.e., "the rapist"). the roleplay may turn them on, but the idea of actually raping, hurting, humiliating someone like that, in a non-fantasy and real life situation wouldn't. you honestly don't think that's possible? i have a hard time explaining it, but as far as i'm concerned, when you indulge a "weird" fantasy like this, you're in a completely different world. you aren't in the same mind-set as a person who actually lived through the trauma! does that make any sense? in other words, just because someone is into the fantasy doesn't mean they really want it to happen outside of an actual set-up role play, you know? believe it or not, there are people who get off on this kind of thing who would find the real thing completely wrong and terrifying. i don't have statistics or hard-based proof other than real anecdotes. that probably doesn't mean much.
Originally Posted by ash_is_the_gal (Post 596124)
wait, are you saying that anyone who indulges the fantasy will most likely experience trauma from it, or most people who have the fantasy probably once experienced a traumatic incident that led them to have the fantasy to begin with? (i think i just used the word fantasy and trauma about 36 times, sorry).
Originally Posted by ash_is_the_gal (Post 596124)
offend me? no. but i don’t see why it should. why should i feel offended by what others choose to do in the privacy of their own homes as long as they aren't involving an unwilling participant?
Originally Posted by ash_is_the_gal (Post 596124)
i agree something like this is obviously case-by-case, but i have a really hard time jumping to some general conclusion about people and their fetishes. it's like what Caity said. she's seen a lot of connections to criminals and weird sexual fetishes, and so it raises a red flag for her when anyone shows such an interest in it, and fair enough. but you still can't speak for the whole human race and say, "okay, because all criminals seem to be obsessed with rape and stuff, that means anyone who has a weird fetish is obviously messed up in some way." is it really that black and white?
I appreciate the live-and-let-live philosophy that I imagine is behind these kinds of sentiments, but I don't think it's applicable to this kind of discussion. It's more relevant in matters where actual interference or prohibiton is being considered. But this is just a discussion about what constitutes being perfectly well-adjusted, or ideal. That requires a far lower burden of proof that suggesting we start rounding people up or something.
Originally Posted by ash_is_the_gal (Post 596124)
here is what i think constitutes as unhealthy:
1) when you partake in said fetish but still do not feel satisfied, meaning this: role-playing the fetish out on a fantasy level isn’t enough. you want the real thing, be it rape, incest, or any other kind of fetish which involves having power over another person or thing. 2) if immediately after you feel disgusting, worthless, or wrong. here is a link to a guy who gets his kicks [no pun intended] by being kicked in the balls [i kid you not]. this is obviously unhealthy, and not just because it’s probably not a good idea to abuse your nads, but the guy specifically says he feels disgusting and worthless immediately after doing it. 3) If the person who partakes in the fetish is doing so as some sort of coping mechanism. There's an abundance of evidence out there about the way things like trauma, absent parents, or various forms of abuse can have a dramatic effect on sexual behavior (and behavior in general). At its core, it's not a terribly controversial thought: not everything we do comes from some perfectly neutral and self-conscious center. Many of the things we like or dislike, or the way we behave, are greatly affected by the sum of our experiences. And not all of it is positive simply because we've chosen it. Basically, behavior that exists to cope with some kind of negative experience is not generally regarded as healthy behavior, because it's done in lieu of actually resolving the issue. This is not to say that such things are abhorrent, rare, weird, or likely to lead to anything else. But I do think this means they are not ideal. That's pretty much the crux of what I'm saying. |
Re: R-rated rape scenes in all kind of movies.
What the fudge have I walked into. By the way feet is a fetish rape is a crime.
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Originally Posted by Plainview (Post 596171)
What the fudge have I walked into. By the way feet is a fetish rape is a crime.
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I'm going to toss in my two cents (and this is not directed at any one person):
I don't think there's anything wrong with getting off on watching rape scenes in movies (not that we even know the OP's motives, mind you). Having a rape fantasy is no different than having bondage or S&M fetishes. It's all about power and domination. Some people are aroused by dominating other people and others are aroused by being dominated. Rape fantasies are just an extreme form of this. And, While I'm sure in some cases these fantasies may stem from some kind of trauma, I don't think that's true for most or even a significant percentage of people who have these fantasies and I don't think anybody should ever assume that there's some underlying cause for it. I also suspect that rape fantasies are more common than most people think but many people are too afraid to admit that they have them. Also, what exactly constitutes a rape fantasy? A lot of couples role play and engage in behaviors during sex that could be considered along the same lines of a rape fantasy, yet are considered more or less normal. For example: I know many couples who employ handcuffs or other restraints during sex, thus putting the power in the hands of whichever partner is unrestrained, just like the power is in the hands of the "rapist" in that type of role play. As for myself, I have watched rape porn and actually found myself rather aroused by some of it. I'm also fascinated by the whole concept of bondage. This doesn't mean that I'm not just as repulsed by actual rape as anybody else and I have no trauma in my life that spurred these fascinations. It's just part of who I am. I've never actually indulged in rape role play, but I can see the appeal of it. And while it certainly stands to reason that an actual rapist would find pleasure in watching scenes of simulated rape, I believe it's a fallacy of logic to assume that someone who enjoys watching scenes of simulated rape must themselves be rapists or be otherwise mentally unhealthy. I think some people read too much into what other people like to watch. |
Some years ago a friend of mine was running for governor of Texas and doing a pretty good job of it until during an outing with reporters on his ranch it started to rain. My friend--a real cowboy, not the urban version--commented that weather was a lot like rape--"you can't do anything about it, so you might as well relax and enjoy it."
Now this is just an old saying I've heard all my life, especially among cowboys, rig crews, hunting trips, and just anywhere a group of guys collect. But it's a dumb thing for a politician to say, especially when it showed up in newsprint. Like I said, it was something I'd heard many times and never thought anything about it. But that was before I knew a woman who had been raped. Even though it happened years before I knew her, it still gave her nightmares--she would trimble in her sleep and cry out. I spent a lot of nights holding her just to keep the nightmare away, but it even undermined her self-image to the point that it came between us. So for the first time I heard that old saying from a different perspective that made me sick. Rape is too horrible a crime to make light of in silly sayings or fantasies or as entertainment in movies. That said, the most disturbing rape scene I ever saw portrayed wasn't in a film but in an on-stage production of Man of La Mancha. The actress wore a flesh-colored body suit under the clothes that were torn off by the rapists, and the portrayal of her beating and rape was graphic and very disturbing. Not at all entertaining. Oh, by the way, my friend lost the election. |
Originally Posted by Yoda (Post 594955)
At least make something up about how its for a Gender Studies class or something. |
Originally Posted by 7thson (Post 595115)
think they meant "grape" scenes, we all have made a typo before:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nFnq1fLpvoI oh wait "R" rated ...Nm Anyway, for whatever this person's purpose in asking for it, the only rape scene I can think of is in Boys Don't Cry. |
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