I hate Israel so much
 

Its unbelievable how cruel they are. They are actually using chainsaws to cut down whole olive farms as a way of making the palestinians leave this peice of land they want to build a wall in. Just imagine the Israeli army coming to your house kicking you out and 10,000 other citizens, NOT giving you an alternate place to live, AND destroying your crops. And what do they want to do with that land??? They want to build a WALL that surrounds the palestinians..if you still don't get it....its like this: GIVE US YOUR LAND NOW YOU PALESTINIANS SO WE CAN BUILD A WALL ON IT AND KEEP YOU INSIDE.

Its a Prison.

Those Israeli pigs...

Uh...

What?

There is a difference between a post inviting a discussion and a post inviting trouble… this post is the latter and I am thinking seriously about locking it down or deleting it.

I gave you a second chance to be polite in your political contentions. You assured me you would. You've now broken that assurance, and have thus been banned again.

The situation between Israel and Palestine is a complicated one. Even if we were all to agree that Israel was doing unreasonable things, it would still not justify the kind of comments you have repeatedly made about the Israelis as a whole, or at those who have defended them.

On a less objective note, the mere fact that you cannot contain your anger should serve a signal to you that you are not being fair and objective in your judgements about the situation. You appear far too emotionally involved in the conflict to give a fair account of it. Right or wrong, the attitude you bring to these discussions will only hurt your case in the long run.

That's all.

I doth hatein theyn politik!

Wanted to chime in here. This may be none of my business, as I don't know the history with SpideRman, but I took his thread as an expession of his feelings about a political issue. Although I couldn't disagree more with his post, I saw it as a general statement with no intent as a personal attack. I mean, I am of the mind that any person should be able to state their opinion about any issue, even prejudical hatred, as long as it isn't meant as a direct attack on a person. I will think, and state, that I consider the person a bigoted, racist jerk, but I feel that is their choice to make.

I also realize that movieforums.com might not be the correct forum for these discussions, so maybe a banning was necessary, but my question is:

Is this post ban worthy, or was it just the straw that broke the camels back? For me, I would be fine with adding members to my ignore list is they are posting stuff like this, rather than have someone decide if content if right for me or not. Of course this is Chris's site, and if his rule is "Post racist bull****, and you will be banned", then ban his ass, as he broke the rules. And again, I know this kid was on rocky ground already, and if he has been a troublemaker, and deserves to get booted, so be it.

Just my stinky opinion.

_S

I really like what you've said here Sedai; it makes a lot of sense. Yet, what if he had only posted this comment in order to cause an argument? Given the fact that he has posted inflammatory remarks in the past and has also attacked a number of posters without provocation, maybe Chris is in the right. It does seem like a standard gripe and not a personal attack, but I see a familiar pattern that would have probably arisen by the creation of this thread, and the people that would have responded. Perhaps the lot of us just ignoring it would have been the best route, but apparently, it’s too late for that.

Your opinion is welcome, Sedai. I'll attempt to explain my rationale a bit further.

As you've already gathered, this member did have a bit of a history. The first thing I can remember him doing is posting a thread about the war in Iraq. Right from the start, he stated his political opinions in extreme ways. For example: "I think Bush is a tyranical Idiot" and "Awww sonny is trying to finish what daddy started..how cute...MoroN."

He was not, however, met with a banning, and I'm not even sure that I gave him any kind of warning, either. But he was met with a bit of disagreement, to which he did not respond. Instead, he disappeared for about a year, then came back and bragged:

I responded and pointed out that none of the things he said in his first post had been proven right, and that he made no such predictions. To the contrary, a sentence in his original post ("I mean the U.S says that they are getting rid of Iraq's weapons........of mass destruction. OK. thats fine but what about Israel..they have alot of nuclear bombs.") implies that he, too, though Iraq had WMDs.

But he merely continued to insist that he had been proven right, and when asked what he had been proven right about, he responded with "Everything." We went back and forth, and at one point he even denied that the Israeli War of Independence even took place. When confronted with evidence, and a demand (though not an ultimatum) that he start producing evidence to support his claims, he responded only with this:

This, clearly, was beyond the pale. But even then, he was given a chance to retract the statement and go on posting. He refused, and was banned. We talked on AOL Instant Messenger, and he explained that Israel was a sensitive subject for him, so I agreed to give him yet another chance. He assured me he would behave himself.

Then, this thread came along. In and of itself, it's not worthy of a banning...but neither was his thread about Iraq. The two original posts have lots of similiarities, though. They were both clearly written by someone who does not have a disagreement...he has a hatred, and past attempts to extract any sort of reasonable discourse out of him have only resulted in more spite and immaturity.

Cait put it as well as anyone: this post is not about debate, it's about stirring up trouble. I tried to explain this to him last night, using the analogy of abortion: someone is welcome to start a thread called "Why I Am Not Pro-Choice," but if they start a thread called "Why I Am Not a Baby Murderer," I'd have to think twice about allowing it.

There's a certain manner of expressing yourself that is designed to incite trouble and spark anger, rather than discussion. He fails to realize this, and has made numerous accusations that he's being banned simply for "hating a country." In reality, he's being banned for his failure to express his hatred in a civil manner, and his demonstrated inability to control his emotions when anyone dares to dissent.

Whether this convinces you or not, that sums up the reasoning behind my decision to ban him a second time.

Makes a lot of sense. I personally wouldn't ever ban anyone if I owned a site, but that's just my own style, and I have a whole lot of respect for the way you have dealt with certain people on MoFo.

Right on. Thanks for taking the time to respond. I guess it all comes down to what kind of site you want to run. After some thought, I feel the banning was correct, if only to promote healthy, mature debate on this website, as I would want if I owned forum site. Sometimes I jump on the censorship wagon WAY to easily, as it is an issue that bothers me to some extent. I put myself in your shoes for a moment, and I concluded that even though I truely feel that people should be able to feel any way they want about an issue, I would want folks to enjoy posting/reading on my site and have an overall pleasent experience. Hatred, prejudice, and bigotry aren't conducive to this, so I wouldn't tolerate much on my own site either.

Anyway, back to chatting about film ;)

Thanks for the reply and Cheers,

_S

First off, I wanna thank Sedai for at leat trying. I am spiderman on another name and I just want to say one last thing before I leave...
I am not racist, never did I say I AHTE ALL ISRAELIS, reread my original post if u take out the last line "israeli pigs" then there is nothing wrong with it at all......also the Israeli pigs part was referring to those people who did what i talked about in my post....i can dislike anyone if i want...there is no way to say i dislike so and so without hurting someone's feelings..people say things on here that offend me all the time but i dont say anything becasuse its thier opinion....Anyways..

If a person is not allowed to hate a country, then what the hell is free speech all about. If I am not allowed to start a thread detailing the FACTUAL actions of a country followed by my OPINION then what the hell am I allowed to do? I didn't insult anyone here, I hate Israel and its the simple truth, what am I NOT allowed to hate it and its soldiers and government? I've seen many people on this forum say "I hate so and so producer for so and so movie" and they never get banned. But wait I get BANNED (the ultimate punishment) for saying I hate a country? If thats what it takes to voice my opinion then ban away yoda. I WON'T back down from my beliefs. I am not imposing them on anyone either. For gods sakes look at the title of this thread...I clearly noted exactly what this thread was going to be about and I was expecting people to A.) Disgaree or B.) Agree.

This site has really become way to bearucratic for me, you can't just ban someone because they hate Israel and everything it stand for. If this is what it takes for me to say I HATE ISRAEL then so be it. And since I am banned for life anyways, let me also go on record and say Yoda is an ******* for banning me for something so stupid. This whole forum is dying down. It gets so boring which is why i only visit like once every 3 weeks, because through all the bull**** you might get something good. I'll continue to be present in other forums, I'll conitnue to be treated democratically, and I'll continue to hate israel whether or not that suites you. OPINIONS INSULT PEOPLE If you havn't learned this lesson, Yoda..too bad you never will. I'll come back here a few years from now and I'll see a closed down site. You are losing members quick due to all the red tape. Let me hate Israel all I want, if the majority of people here disgaree with me ...then they can post a reply (btw i didnt say anything questionable in my orginal post..it was something that happened)..
Good bye.

It doesn't work that way. You can't say something, get in trouble for it, then say "it's okay if you take out the really offensive part." You said it. It was a part of your post, and it indicates a major lack of emotional maturity. No one has been, or ever will be, banned for feeling hatred. But they can be banned for how they express it.


You don't get banned for saying you hate a country. You get banned for being nothing but hateful, and insulting members when they disagree with you. I'm not going to pretend this is your first thread ever, just because I reinstated you. I'm not going to ignore your entire checkered history as a member here. I know where threads like this go, and I know how you respond when people disagree with your opinions (which you treat an awful lot like facts). I'm not going to sit here and watch it happen again.

By the way: you didn't provide a source. In fact, you've never provided a source for any of your claims about Israel, Iraq, or anything of the sort. But even if you can, your were still out of line.


Actually, we've been setting new posting records lately. Once again, your anger's effecting your reasoning. This is the same as your denial of verified historical events; it's as if you think you can change reality just by insisting that it isn't so.


You know what else insults people? Unreasonable hatred and animosity. As much as you'd like to make your statements out to be benign personal opinions, everyone can see that they're anything but.

As for members: not a single person has even disagreed with this decision, let alone walked out as a result. Believe it or not, lots of people appreciate an environment free of the kind of hate that you think qualifies as a discussion. If you still can't see the difference between expressing an opinion and trying to start trouble with spite and anger, then I don't think I can justify putting any more time into trying to explain it to you.

Note to self: This thread is useless.

Note to jrs: If a certain thread is useless... don't post in it. :)

Why you gotta be a hater? Love don't hate. Peace out.

Bush endorses internationally illegal occupation....not a good plan....
 

Prepare for a lot more hate.

Bush has basically just become the first US president to endorse Israeli settlements in the West Bank. (Here's the shortest, and most pertinent article you're gonna read on the subject...
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackage...7&section=news )

Withdrawls from the comparitively piddling Gaza Strip, and some areas of the West Bank, count for next to nothing if legitimacy is leant to the majority of West Bank settlements that remain.

To have supported this position if it arose from a negotiated truce between the Israeli's and Palestinians would have been acceptable. To blaze in like this is just giving more ammunition to the extremists, and is about as likely to facilitate the peace-process as a ban on religion :rolleyes:

Odds on this has made the whole islamic-terrorism-vs-the-US situation worse, and won't please anyone.

Maybe you should have made another thread, Golgs, and just let this one die.

Exactly. I was completely stunned when I heard this because I can't understand how he could drop this one now. I mean, it matches Bush's politics but I have to ask myself if the president's advisors have gone on vacation for the summer or something.

Yeah, true. Just thought it would make a timely reminder of how much hate will boil from this action. But you're right...it's not a nice sight to see this title popping up is it. I'll move my seething accusations to a nicer location...

EDIT: KINDLY LET THIS THREAD DIE....FURTHER REPERCUSSION DISCUSSIONS AVAILABLE HERE....:).....

http://www.movieforums.com/community...972#post152972