#Oscarssowhite
 

I really don't care for race base arguments. Try and steer clear of them. I think people get into one camp or another and become bias. I try to take each situation as an individual event/problem. However this hashtag really bothers me.

For one the person who started it has become twitter famous. I mean the first thing on her bio says "#Oscarssowhite creator". Which makes my eyes role that she is proud of that. She is getting interviews off it as well. Seems like it is advantageous for her to keep it going so she can get her 15 seconds. Which is the opposite of what you want a movement to do.

https://twitter.com/ReignOfApril/sta...73662431166464

On top of that I don't think it's the Academy's problem. The problem is there is not enough quality roles and movies for African Americans to shine. Which is a lack of writers, directors and people running the show in Hollywood. Some of that is not enough people of color are interested in this type off art and more they just don't get the chance. I mean who really had a chance this year Straight Outta Compton (they did get a screenplay nom), Creed (think would have gotten more Oscar love if they pushed the release back). Idris Alba, Samuel Jackson, MBJ, Gary Gray, Ryan Cooger where the only serious threats I can think of. And I most certainly think a few of them deserved noms.

And to top it all off if I were black I would feel cheapen if I got nominated or won with that hashtag going around. I want to win on my own volition and merits. Not to mention the hashtag feels like a slight against Asian and latinos and other minorities. As well as making the nominees feel guilty about being nominated when they should be elated.

Here are a couple categories:
Last 7 director winners:
Woman, white male, Asian, white male, Asian, Latino, Latino and Probably Latino this year.
Last 9 Supporting actress winners:
black, white woman, Latina, black, white, black, white, black, white

Listen nobody is a fool it is still too white. But it's not the Academy's problem. I'd be the first to applaud an all black or latino or Asian Oscars if the performances of the year justified that. Anyways my 2 cents, am I out of bounds in not liking this "movement" at all.

Every year there is a similar movement on twitter, and to be honest, I feel like people are creating a problem where there isn't one. The nominations are reserved for the best performances of the year regardless of ethnicity, nationality etc.
Yet it looks as though they want to reserve a nomination for a white actor, another for a black actor and so on, and it just seems a bit mad :lol:. People should be there based on merit, and if it happens that the nominees are predominantly white, so be it, there are plenty of talented workers across all fields in the film industry who belong to an array of minority groups, and chances for them to take the opportunity to grab a nom will inevitably arise again, based on their talents alone.

Heck, actors from minority groups were winning Oscars back in the 1930s when racial prejudice was a substantial problem, so I don't think racism within the Academy is a problem at all.

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People there on merit? Have you seen the Oscars? You'll think the best people win next. ;)

They're meant to be anyway :p But yeah, what J-Law is doing there this year baffles me, I feel like they're making her into the next Meryl Streep, where they'll nominate her for anything even if the film is crap :lol:

They've made some horrendous decisions in recent times too (Sandra Bullock) :D but largely they do quite well I think!

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I don't get how people can simultaneously complain that the Oscars are all about politics and then turn around and say that voting is always based on merit. Not saying anyone here is doing that, but I'm seeing it.

There's definitely a problem in Hollywood, no doubt about it. We don't have enough people of color in front of the camera or behind it, and I don't think it's because they're not interested in this industry. It's a predominately white industry that seems intent on sustaining its whiteness.

Having said all that, I don't think we can discount the Academy's role in all of this. I'm not suggesting that the Academy is intentionally snubbing people of color or anything, but the fact that the Academy is so white is telling. I really do think there's a correlation, and that if the Academy had more people of color, then movies and performances that may resonate more with those racial and cultural groups could be nominated.

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

Middle aged/old white men are the vast majority of the Academy voters. It's not really a surprise, especially when there's so few on screen black actors in roles which would/might merit an Oscar that there aren't many nominated/winners.

I find that racist...

Don't people realize that the Oscars and film-making in general was started by whites? So of course there will be more white people involved in Hollywood film-making than other people of color. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out!

This whole thing is the equivalent to saying: "Hey rap music is too black, let's start nominating white and Asian rappers so that we can alienate the people who had the biggest hand in making it. #Rapsoblack!!!"

Last time it was Al Sharpton claiming whites were racist, which is a racist statement in itself. We even had a thread about it.
Al Sharpton planning protest at Oscars

I said this:

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I don't really care about any of this but i am pissed that Idris Elba wasn't nominated.

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Whoopi Goldberg is an Oscar winner. :whoopi:
They need to shut up.

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#mofosonottwitter

Gary Coleman isn't though :coleman:

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We shouldn't feel the need to nominate people of colour out of obligation to diversify. We award the performance and the character, not the race.

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#Oscarsowilde

lol and basketball was started by whites....

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We're still a ways away from a Netflix movie getting a nod....

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Group thinking always leads to poison. I prefer thinking of people as individuals.

In my review I mentioned how politics will probably stop this film from getting a nomination, when in all honesty it deserved at least two.

Jiraffe Just In

The highest-selling artist in hip-hop actually IS a white dude (you can probably guess who, lol). There are actually quite a few successful white rappers. Besides, I don't think the fact that Hollywood was largely started by white people is an excuse for why it's still so dominated by white people (particularly in the technical fields).

I don't think it's fair to compare the statistics of Academy Award winners with the black population of the U.S. when so many nominated actors are from outside of the U.S.; the stats should be compared to the global black population.

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So Spike Lee is "boycotting" the academy awards now. Except he really isn't because he got an honorary award in November that there is no talk of giving back. Hey I'll boycott as long as I am not up for an award.

Oh and Jada Pinkett Smith wants to boycott now too. Where was this when Will was nominated twice before? Sour grapes much? Label me impress if they boycotted and Will got nominated (which he probably should have been, debatable)

Listen I hate it as much as anyone that the Oscars snubbed some really good and fun movies. But that's what the Academy does, they aren't very much fun in their choices, ever. How many worthy diverse choices were there? Creed, Straight Outta Compton, Beast Of No Nation (uphill battle because it came out on Netflix, rightfully or wrongly) Concussion. It was a strong possibility the would all get snubbed unfortunately. I hate it that Creed didn't get a lot of love. And this fails to mention Asian and Latino love (Sicario and Del Toro). Not to mention the Directing category has been taken over by Hispanic/Latino. (Which is great)

I just find the #OscarsSoWhite thing terrible. It compromises the nominees this year and future black artist up for Oscars in the future. The nominees should be happy now they are made to feel guilty for their hard work. And black artist in the future wonder if they earned their nominees/awards or if they are there on charity.

haha I wonder if the Academy is regretting hiring Chris Rock. He is going have a field day.

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Will Smith has joined his wife, actress Jada Pinkett Smith, in vowing not to attend the Feb. 28 Academy Awards ceremony in protest over the lack of diversity among nominees in major categories this year. Smith’s decision comes as pressure mounts on the Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences to address what many are calling the org’s diversity crisis.

Smith told “Good Morning America” anchor Robin Roberts on Thursday that he is “uncomfortable” with the situation. For the second year in a row, the 20 acting nominees are all white. Smith generated Oscar buzz this awards season for his work in the football drama “Concussion.”

“My wife’s not going. It would be awkward to show up with Charlize (Theron),” he said. “We’ve discussed it. We’re part of this community. But at this current time, we’re uncomfortable to stand there and say, ‘This is Ok.'”

-Variety


Is this getting a little ridiculous now? He doesn't get nominated and decides not to show up? What does this say about next year is my real question. Will any people of colour think that their nomination is a real one, or one that is simply there to please the hysteria.

Changes have to happen sounds like they are going to nominate people out of obligation to fill a diversity quota as opposed to actual performances that earn the spot. Which makes things a joke, more so than they are now.

The one actual snub in my opinion is Idris Elba, but as I said before, that's more of a stand against Netflix than a person of colour.

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Nominating people just so you can fill a racial quota is a joke...plain and simple. If they give in to this pressure they'll become a joke like the Golden Globes. I do think the majority of the voting body of the Academy being on average 60+ white males is also not helping anything. I think that is where change needs to happen. They need to start diversifying the voting body so that things like this stop happening. So when the voter base is diversified and still no Black lead films and black actors get nominated you can finally chalk it up to "you just weren't good enough, it had nothing to do with the color of your skin".

Honestly I think people (Spike Lee i'm looking at you) are creating problems where there aren't any because they are salty because none of the films they have made lately are getting enough recognition when they don't deserve as much.

I did like Creed (Have not seen Concussion yet), but Straight Outta Compton was meh to me and I'm an actual hip hop fan. Are they better than any of the other films being nominated is the question?

The Martian (Just no...)
The Revanant (hell no...)
Brooklyn (have not seen it)
Spotlight (hell to the no)
Carol (have not seen)
The Big Short (have not seen yet)
Room (have not seen yet)

I think Bridge of Spies and Mad Max are the only two I'd chalk up as questionable since I have yet to see a couple of the other films nominated. And I actually liked Mad Max and BOS both.

If either should of gotten one it should of been Creed. Straight Outta Compton wasn't even that good of a film imo. The Third Act falls apart quickly.

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I do think this is getting a bit blown out of proportion. Yes, I do think their is a problem with the make-up of the Academy itself, because it heavily consists of over-50 Caucasian men, but they're addressing that now.

The Jada movement thing is simply sore losing. I think people forget as well that this is the Academy that gave Hattie McDaniel an Oscar in 1940, and since then, Latino, deaf, LGBT, Asian, and even women in some male dominated categories have gained nominations and wins on an increasingly frequent basis. Lupita Nyong'o won just two years ago, Marion Cotillard was nominated last year for a French language performance for a film produced in Belgium, I do think the Academy is diverse, and they're making active steps to become even more so. So I agree, this is getting a bit ridiculous.

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

This is the most ridiculous thing I've seen this year so far

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This is just publicity - I bet the Oscars love it, more money for them..

I'm tired of people divided by pigment - it's time for people to be judged on actions and movie taste :)

Black actors get nominated all the time, based on the percentage of black actors working. There's not a lot of black actors as black Americans only make up 13% of the population. Do you people want quotas, say 50% of all Oscars have to go to black actors? That would be racially biased and wrong.

There's NO organized racism at the Academy Awards. Except by people like Spike Lee who make a big stink about it so they can draw more attention to themselves.

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This was ridiculous last year. And it is stupid this year too. At least John Singleton has the proper prospective.

Link

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

People who actually do want to see more diversity think the time is ripe to plead their case. The president of the Academy is an African-American woman and Spike Lee was just honored with an Honorary Lifetime Achievement Award. Chris Rock is this year's host. I can ramble on and say that everybody gets snubbed sometime, but I fall into the Academy's demographic which is being called into question. They have a right to protest in the way they see fit, and you have the right to agree or disagree. :)

#perspective

Perspective? On the internet?

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=...2FGTFO.gif&f=1

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

https://twitter.com/Independent/stat...23820415946752
Cue the wholesale cultural shaming of Michael Caine in 3...2...1...

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

Well, he's just another old white man keeping them down, isn't he? ;)

Sad part is what Caine is saying here is pretty reasonable and not meant as a disrespect to anybody yet he'll still get bashed for saying this because...the Internet is the land of the misinformed, idiotic, and ignorant.

I think part of the problem is that the effects of racism ripple past their source: if there were zero racism in the industry overnight, you'd still end up waiting decades until there was real equality at the top. Most of the people who've made it have spent decades working on their craft, so a lack of diversity today tells us more about how accessible the industry was for minorities decades ago. Even if it were largely a meritocracy going forward, there would still be a lag time until that was really made manifest.

The question is whether you can (or should) overcorrect for this in the mean time. I think there are some pretty good reasons to think that's a bad idea, personally. But whether you agree or not, I think it's pretty silly to expect the Oscars to always produce a list of nominees that aligns with national demographics. The sample size is way too small, without even getting into the issue mentioned above. There may indeed be a problem, but a lack of minority actors in a given year isn't automatically an example of it. You'd expect to see that sometimes even in a totally equitable system.

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

https://soundcloud.com/the-bill-simm...-wesley-morris

Really entertaining listen. Wesley Morris is a black movie critic and has a great perspective on all this. He is a really great critic.

lol not sure if you saw what Charlotte Rampling said today but she is going get murdered online.

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

That said, seeing how he treated those Zulu's I can't say I'm surprised.

Ha...:lol:

But look what happened to him at the end:eek:

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He survived. :)

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anyway who care's about Will Smith anymore? He doesn't deserved any kind of oscar or award... He didn't made any good role in years now lol

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

I don't know, some of the examples from this year and last year feel a bit too egregious to truly be happenstance. David Oyelowo's performance in Selma kept getting Best Actor nominations from all the other critics' organisations (especially the Golden Globes) yet the Academy nominated Bradley Cooper's far less nominated work in American Sniper instead. The same thing arguably happened this year with Idris Elba's work in Beasts of No Nation being passed over in favour of Tom Hardy's work in The Revenant. I know the Globes are not the be-all and end-all of Oscars predictors, but it's difficult to disregard how sudden Cooper and Hardy's nominations feel.

Also, wasn't the whole point of Caine saying "be patient" a reference to the fact that even he had to wait over twenty years before he got his own Oscar? Hardly the most sensitive or appropriate, but definitely not as malicious as Rampling's "racist to whites" comments.

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

Selma sent their screenings off very late last year, which is what I think was attributed as the main reason it missed out on a lot of noms. He would have most likely received a nom last year if it had been sent in earlier because American Sniper was not a good film really :lol:

Idris Elba being snubbed this year is, like other have said, more of a statement about Netflix than the merits of his performance, which is indeed wrong, but it's not fuelled by racial motivations.

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

I don't know how people find the reasons so simple with such a large organization. We talk like it's a jury of 12 sitting around deciding things.

Martin Luther King Jr. was a dynamic, interesting and great man. David Oyelowo's performance of MLK in Selma was lack luster. He didn't deserve a nomination for a mediocre portrayal of a great man. The award is for the acting, not for the person being portrayed. Bradley Cooper's performances was the far more riveting. Racism is wrong no matter what group does it, that includes using a race card for every time you don't win the race.

http://www.movieforums.com/community...1&d=1453517023

Sorry about that. She just told me she's now going to boycott this thread, so you don't have to worry about her in here again.

Bam. That podcast I posted on the previous page goes into depth about this. Idris was screwed, rightfully or wrongly, because Netflix is new to this Oscars campaigning thing The Academy is a bunch of old white out of touch dudes that probably barely know that Netflix makes it's own movies. I think he was hurt more by his platform then race.

It is really important to have a studio behind you for an Oscar campaign when you want an Oscar. I think it's stupid but that's how the game is played. If it's true Selma turned in their screenings late that makes more sense because it should have been nominated. Straight Outta Compton was released in the summer and the studio probably never thought it would push for Oscar, I never saw any of their actors in these interviews all the other award candidates were doing. I don't think the studio thought Creed would be so critically well accepted either so they never really pushed the movies for awards. Oh and Will Smith did push and was probably the 6th or 7th nominee but apparently the movie was not very good which hurt him. (I haven't seen it.)

Combine this with not being a lot of worthy black performances for Oscars and you get what we have here. It's still a shame because it would have been a lot more fun with some of them nominated. It would also help to get more diversity into the voting process and younger. The lack of studio back campaigns played the biggest role I believe.

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

I think we should all agree whites and blacks should be protesting the Oscars together until Idris Elba gets his nom.

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

I don't think race had anything to do with Selma snubs. Should Oyelowo have been nominated? Sure, but the biggest best actor snub that year was Gyllenhaal in Nightcrawler. Should DuVernay have been nominated for best director? Sure, but the directors always make weird nominations (snubbing Ridley Scott this year doesn't make them biased against old white men). That's the problem when Hollywood goes an entire year and makes a grand total of one good movie about black people.

I think Compton has more to do with age and subject matter than race. Hell, all you need to do is look through these forums to see how many people will refuse to consider or like something because it has rap music in it. Creed is the really curious one, as obviously voters have seen and liked it because Stallone is picking up awards everywhere. I would vote for both as worthy of best picture nominations, but then there are always more deserving films than there are spots.

Of course, the real discussion to be had here is that actors are ridiculously overrated. Mexicans have an unprecedented monopoly on the best director and best cinematography categories happening right now that nobody seems to talk about, and last year the first Vietnamese man to ever win an Oscar took home a statue for editing Whiplash. I think the 2015 ceremony set a record with 5 main categories going to non-white people (not even counting shorts or foreign films). I don't see how you can say that a record setting number of minority wins is too white.

How many 'worthy' roles for non-white actors are there in a given Hollywood year? How many 'worthy' roles which aren't race specific are there which are given to non-whites? This is where the problem lies and where the competition is and it's the same for women.

Hollywood = box office. The colour Hollywood most cares about is green, not black or white. If they thought that a black, one-armed lesbian in a wheelchair would sell the film better than a white, one-armed lesbian in a wheelchair then, more often than not, the former wold get the role. For the most part, the only times that doesn't happen is when there's a star involved (or it goes in favour of the bigger star) or when there's actually some creative control from someone who cares enough.

I think they probably know this, although sometimes you really can't see the wood for the trees, but you can't call the audience racist or admit that green is the only colour which matters. What's the point of the Oscars if you're just going to admit it's all a marketing exercise?

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

I mostly agree HK but I do think good movies are still being made and ultimately they are still recognizing the best of it even if they miss the mark sometimes. We do still have to remember taste plays a role.

I would like to see the one armed lesbian script your working on. Who do you have in mind for the lead. I'm hoping Margo Robbie. Halle Berry would work too though. ;)

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

I agree that good films still get made and that good work still gets recognised, but I don't think that's the main reason or the only criteria. I think the expansion of the Best Picture category to accommodate 5-10 nominations spells that out in huge neon letters.

As for the script, I'm just a lowly writer, I don't get to cast. :D Which is a shame, as ex-Neighbours cast members would get regular work from me.

New Hollywood films are more diversified than ever. I just watched Ricki and the Flash last night, a very diverse film.

It starred two big name actors Meryl Strep and Kevin Kline...and the film had a number of black actors, including the wife of Kevin Kline's character. Also a gay male couple, an Asian or two, a Native American (which I thought was cool because there's not many Native American working in Hollywood).

But I didn't see any Hispanics so I'm sure someone will say the film producers must be racist. And I didn't see any Canadians and you know it's a faux pas not to have at least one Canadian in a movie:) (that's tongue in cheek for those of you who take everything too serious)

The day people forget about their skin color and consider themselves people first, is the day the world gets better.

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

This was intended for a similar thread that got locked before I could reply, so...whatever.

I'm not.

Leaving aside the fact that "blacks" is not the preferred nomenclature, I think having all twenty acting nominations be white is a pretty objective example of no diversity seeing as there's only one type that can't be diversified.

Simple - they are exceptions that prove the rule. Steve McQueen did not win Best Director - that went to Alfonso Cuarón for Gravity. Also, 12 Years A Slave is exactly one Best Picture winner out of eighty-seven (and that's without addressing how it had to be about slavery to be a contender, which is another part of the problem in that the Academy only seems to acknowledge slavery-based movies) and that won a mere two years ago. Also, consider the stats for winning black actors - there are only 14 black winners from 66 black nominations (out of 352 nominations in total). That's hardly "many", and just because it isn't zero doesn't mean that the Academy is automatically absolved of its established prejudices.

Tell that to Pia Zadora. Besides, I'll concede distribution issues led to Oyelowo and Elba being snubbed in recent years. However, I take issue with the "they picked the best performer" argument because it's too subjective to work one way or the other, especially since there's no telling whether or not the Academy is even giving black artists the same consideration that they would to white artists in the first place.

Better than being an un-PC moron, that's for sure.

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

Is anyone else totally annoyed by the backlash surrounding this year's Academy Awards because it supposedly isn't diverse?

In my opinion this is the biggest load of bs ever. Black celebrities are boycotting this years oscar's because according to them there is no diversity in the nominations, and i'm guessing because no blacks were nominated such as Will Smith for Concussion.

My rebuttal is this. If the Academy is so racist why is not that long ago 12 Years A Slave and its black director won for best movie and director, and many black and actors, actresses have won including Forrest Whitcker, Denzel washinton (twice) and Cuba Gooding Jr. If it was so racist then why would they won?

These people boycotting are complete and utter morons.

You don't see white people complaining about racism in the NBA, considering the majority of players are black.

Maybe, just maybe, non minorities werent nominated this year, because those that were nominated were, gee i dunno, better.

Anybody agree? Or are you like those PC morons that want to boycott the Oscars this year

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Everyone thats taking offense to the supposed lack of diversity in the Academy Awards are just whiny a-holes. What would you people suggest, black people winning everything? Get over yourselves you idiots.

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You PC idiots are such a-holes. Even if blacks were included in the nominees it still wouldn't be enough, youd still cry foul that half the nominees weren't minorities. You PC idiots should go *** yourselves.

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> "black people don't win enough Oscars"
> black people boycott Oscars
> how are they supposed to win if the boycott it

xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDdd

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As for that stupid cow, Jana Smith, if she is an actress i can honestly say i havent seen anything noteworthy she has starred in. Oh no she and Will Smith and Spike Lee are boycotting the Oscars how can the show possibly go on without them?

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Okay you idiots that side with Jana Smith and Spike Lee, explain to me how if the Academy is still stuck in 1920 how come a few years apart, an actor won for playing a transgender and this year an actor has been nominated for playing a transgender (Danish Girl). And didnt a certain Sean Penn win for playing a gay man. Boy oh boy the Academy sure is stuck in the 1920s *sarcasm*.

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Come on where is the rebuttals, how is the Academy racist or discriminatory. Where is your proof? I want proper evidence of a committe member saying, Yeah there was no way i was going to vote for that Will Smith for best actor', as an example. You idiots have nothing, except pure speculation.

One more point, slavery in the US is over. If your black in America and you cant make something of yourself, thats YOUR problem, its not 'the man's' fault. Tying it in with the Academy Awards, if no blacks were nominated this year GET OVER IT!

So you think the idea of black people hypothetically winning everything is absurd but you have no problem with an established history of white people winning almost everything?

That's very interesting.

I...know?

Ad hominem.

"If the Academy is so biased towards straight white men, then why did it give these straight white men Oscars?"

"Prove to me that institutionalised racism exists by finding a quote from a single Academy member talking about voting in a secret poll where the numbers are never released anyway."

You seem awfully invested in not seeing black people succeed.

Are you kidding me, i love black actors, Denzel Washington is one of my all time favorite actors, who by the way won the coveted best actor award TWICE, twice as in two as in only a few people in history have one two of these things.

I want to see black people success in all walks of life. But for people to suggest that blacks (i seriously dont think thats a derogatory term, they have dark, black skin, what can i say) are being discriminated against at the Oscars is complete garbage.

Could it be they never win Best Director because there hardly any black directors out there? And keep in mind, for a black man, women to win best actor/actress, they have to strike gold and firstly be in a movie that is pure gold, not easy to do.

Is it the Academy's fault that these actor's, actresses, for whatever reason arent starring in movies that are being nominated?

Here's my question, is Jana Pinket Smith not being racist by the fact that she's boycotting the Oscar's because all the nominees are white? Isnt that a form of racism? Why cant she go to ita nd support her fellow actors and actresses regardless of their skin color?

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I noticed the same thing is happening with women, like companies have to have a certain percentage of employees by women. Heres a crazy idea, why cant a company just pick whatever employees they deem as the best to help them make money, if it turns out most are men whats wrong with that.

As for the Academy Awards, what do you people want, have it like American Idol, where any scmhmoe that knows nothing about movies can vote?

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Just a crazy thought, maybe just maybe, the committee members that vote are just doing their jobs and voting for what they believe to them is the best movie, actor, actress, director, regardless of a person's skin color. Maybe theyre not concentrating on a person's skin color but on the quality of their work and how it stacks up against somebody else's. Now that is crazy.

moviefan555, keep it civil.

That's your one warning.

Im so scarred jerkoff

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

Bye then.

You'll forgive me if I failed to notice any actual appreciation for black actors amid your many posts complaining about their demands for recognition by their peers.

Using "black" by itself to refer to black people is at least somewhat derogatory. Someone saying "blacks" instead of "black people" suggests that they don't think of black people as people - even if this is not the intent, this is the common interpretation.

There have been a few non-white Best Director winners like Alejandro G. Iñárritu, Alfonso Cuarón, and Ang Lee, so it's not like the Academy is 100% biased against directors of colour - if anything, that just makes the lack of a black winner stand out even more. Besides, a movie doesn't have to be pure gold, it just has to win over the voters - not every winner is universally beloved, after all.

Perhaps. It could be that they are starring in such movies and the Academy is ignoring them or giving them the slightest of nods (such as Straight Outta Compton playing out like every other award-baiting music biopic yet it only has a solitary screenplay nomination).

Reverse racism doesn't exist.

In that case, it's to counter existing institutional biases that already favour men in the first place. Ideally, every individual should rise or fall based on their own merit but if they're doing it within a fixed system that favours certain groups over others then there need to be certain measures in order to restore the balance.

Nah, I think they already have awards shows like that.

Heh, this is what I get for walking away from the computer for a while. Oh, well.

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

I just want to comment on the comparisons being made between the Academy Awards and the BET Awards (not necessarily in this thread, but everywhere). You can't really compare the two, because one is an entire industry and the other covers a select few genres of music (hip-hop, R&B, etc.).

A better comparison would be the BET Awards and the Image Awards, and even that's a flawed comparison because the Image Awards were designed specifically to honor the people of color who so often get overlooked by major film awards, while the BET Awards just happen to be mostly black in its nominees because you're dealing with a genre that was invented by black people and is therefore largely consistent of black people.

What the BET Awards do prove, though, is that this issue with the Oscars is two-pronged. Look at the BET Awards: you've got a largely black voting base voting in an industry that's largely dominated by black people. It proves that the solution doesn't just lie in diversifying motion picture, nor does it lie in just diversifying the voter base (or enacting quotas, which is a ridiculous idea that absolutely no one suggested but is rallied against anyway).

No one is saying an actor should win simply because of their skin color. But certain films to appeal more to certain people. Perhaps Straight Outta Compton, with its depiction of racist profiling and brutality on the part of the LAPD, might have gotten a Best Picture nomination had there been more voters who could relate to that sort of systemic racism.

Sorry if I've posted this story already, but last summer I showed one of my favorite movies, Annie Hall, to my brother. There's a great scene in the film in which Alvy Singer (Allen) is at Annie Hall's (Keaton) parents' house for Easter dinner. Singer turns to the camera and monologues about how different his family's holiday dinners are, at which point we see a split-screen showing the difference between Hall and Singer family dinners--essentially, the difference between a Christian family dinner and a Jewish family dinner. My brother and I were both raised Jewish, and during that scene, he turned to me and said, "Dude, this is exactly what our family dinners are like." Indeed it was: five conversations going on at once, the matriarch of the family never sitting down, so on and so forth. Annie Hall is a film that really brings forth Allen's Jewish heritage in a way few of his other films have, and as a result, it resonates with me a lot more.

Another example of this is the Coen brothers' A Serious Man, a film I consider to be one of the masterpieces of the 21st century. Obviously a lot of people loved it, but the fact that it's centered around a child's bar mitzvah--with all of the awkward aspects that come with the process--really made the first viewing kind of uncomfortable for me, and in a good way. My bar mitzvah process was awful, and seeing it again, recognizing all of those elements that I hated, it was really visceral for me. The film hit something for me that I suspect it didn't for anyone who didn't have those experiences. Both films did.

Our backgrounds do affect how we view things. You can never completely enter a film with a blank slate. You always bring some sort of baggage, whether it's your race, religion, culture, gender, sexuality, disability, trauma, or just general life experiences. In order to ensure the best variety of films nominated, you need to have people with more diverse backgrounds, people who can see films in different ways. You don't have to give an actor an award just because they're a certain race; if you diversify the voting base while also giving actors in marginalized groups more screen time in major films, the diversity in the nominees will come on its own.

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

That was uncalled for. No where did MovieFan555 say anything remotely resemble your accusation.

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

Damn Citizen why are you defending that A-Hole?

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

I don't play sides, I don't play favorites. I call it like I see it.

Iros could say truthful that MovieFan was a numpty, a troll, a loudmouth, even a jerk who was wrong with his claims...but it's wrong to say that he has an agenda to see black people not succeed, that's way too below the belt and Moviefan never remotely said anything like that. No one deserves to be called a racist out of the blue just because the other guy disagrees with him.

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

If you win an oscar you become a lifetime member of the academy… so yeah white begets white.
Just like wealth begets wealth. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, and the oscars get whiter.

If you don't like it then make your own awards!

Sure, I've been called a racist, but the truth is I'm not. i honestly just feel that white people are the best and all the other ethnicities aren't as good. That used to be called 'pride'.

So you still would have said something if you didn't agree with him?

I was agreeing with Moviefan for the most part although I agree he was being a little hostile, and you were right to ban him Tacitus after that last comment. No where though did I find him actually saying "I hate black people"

I'm sorry but that's just a flat-out lie.

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

My guess is that he didn't know Tacitus was any type of moderator when he heard that warning.
Like it was just some dude threatening him with a harsh words.

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

Just to clarify, I didn't delete any of the guy's posts because I didn't find any of them overtly egregious. But I could sense where it was all heading.

He confirmed it in his reply to me.

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

Tacitus, I see that MovieFan has been a member of MoFo for 7 years, that's a long time. Has he done similar behavior in the past? Has he ever been warned before? If he's never been warned, maybe as Foster suggested, he didn't know you were an official Moderator and thought you were just another person telling him to chill out.

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

25 posts in 7 years most in this thread. He'll be missed how could you Tacitus :rolleyes:

Makes no difference whether he knew I was a mod or not.

That's the last I'm saying about the matter, on with the thread!

I never actually accused moviefan555 of being racist, I merely suggested it - just like with suggestions and accusations in the game Clue, I did so in the assumption that moviefan555 would argue back and prove my suggestion wrong. Here's what I wrote, bolded for emphasis:

"Seem" is the key word here. It keeps things ambiguous and gives moviefan555 a chance to realise how their arguments might sound to others, offering them a chance to defend and explain themselves. You'll note that moviefan555 actually does do something like that in their subsequent reply, even if it does have shades of the "I'm not racist because I have black friends" cliché. The conversation was actually starting to turn a bit more civil - until they went and called Tacitus a jerkoff, of course.

It's true, I could have said that...but why would I? The discussion would just devolve into meaningless name-calling and there wouldn't have been any kind of serious discussion - besides, Tacitus came in and told moviefan555 to "keep it civil" anyway so you see where that line of discussion would have gone. My post forced moviefan555 to reconsider how they were expressing their point of view and how others could (and would) interpret it.

Perhaps. At the very least, it doesn't exist in anywhere near the same capacity as straightforward racism and thus feels extremely irrelevant to the discussion.

The Sags totally trolled the Oscars tonight with all the black actros winning hahaha. Well done.


Susan Sarandon also showed up to the ceremony in an outfit that gave me inspiration.....

http://img.wennermedia.com/article-l...36236b9a03.jpg

http://www.movieforums.com/community...1&d=1454222209

It's amazing to me that Idris Elba got a Golden Globe nomination and won a freaking SAG Award but still didn't get an Oscar nomination.

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

To be fair, except for the Beasts of No Nation nomination, weren't all the SAG nominees/awards in TV categories plus an ensemble that doesn't exist in the Oscars?

He won two SAG Awards one for Luther as well. And yeah Daniel is right all the black wins were in TV except Idris Elba for Supporting Actor.

The most stupid thing about all this is that it's painfully obvious that Oscar isn't white.

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=...4x1007.jpg&f=1

And nor is the other one.

https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=...Ti9Tw-.png&f=1

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

it's just another example when the race card is played, it's not even interesting anymore :D

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

It's interesting to see people defend moviefan555 even after they got banned.

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

Moviefan555 had nuggets of truth in his first post. Problem is he was far more interested in being a troll then an actual discussion. I mean if he had actually READ the thread he would have found people who thing the #Oscarssowhite controversy is BS, but he insisted we all were PC a-holes. And I (and many others here) are by no means PC. And since his douchebaggery will not stand man... he won't be missed either.

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

#OscarSoRight

Screw black people! White power! White power!

On a serious note I think all this is bullsh*t, to a certain extend. Looking at Oscars through the years, black people aren't represented nearly enough. Of course that's obviously because of more dominant racism in the earlier years.

But many black people have been nominated and won awards in the '00s and up, even the 90s... But I don't think 2015 is the right year for this to be a big thing. Idris Elba could have gotten a nomination, definitely, but apart from that I think it's all stupid. Not every race and every sexual orientated group has to be nominated just to create some diversity. The discussion has a point somewhere, but all this has been overblown and just appear dumb as hell right now...

I don't think most people take issue with the idea that racism is real and can manifest in things like this. They take issue with the assumption that a lack of diversity, in any sample size in any industry, should be treated as de facto evidence of same.

Example one: even if the nominations were random, you'd occasionally have years where all the nominees would be white. So any suggestion that this is itself dispositive is basically innumerate.

Example two: there's no reason to expect any group of people to participate in any industry at a rate that mirrors their numbers in the larger population. It's also self-contradictory, because expecting this is the same as suggesting that all races' life experiences are roughly interchangeable, which can't be true if racism is at all prevalent (let alone systemic).


It can be argued, of course, that what fields people enter in what numbers is part choice, but also partly a reflection of how welcome they feel there. But if that's what's going on, I would ask two things. First, how someone thinks they can parse one of these causes from the other. And second, why it makes sense to fix this from the top-down, by culturally policing the end result.

They were nuggets, alright, but not of truth. It seemed especially ignorant of moviefan555 to act like Sean Penn and Jared Leto winning Oscars for Milk and Dallas Buyers Club (plus Eddie Redmayne being nominated for The Danish Girl) were supposed to indicate that the Academy was not prejudiced even though, you know, all three are cishet white males and thus their receiving recognition for playing such "brave" roles is fundamentally hollow.

Also, who takes pride in not being PC?

I know you're joking and all, but damn.

It certainly seems like the right year. If anything, the fact that there's been an increase in nominations/wins since the beginning of the 21st century only makes the fact that there have now been two consecutive years without any acting nominees of colour even more egregious. Trying to reference just how many black people have won or been nominated in the past isn't enough to off-set matters, especially considering the stats I already used when moviefan555 deployed the exact same line of reasoning.

It becomes an issue if it looks like there's a pattern emerging, which is the case when there just so happens to be two consecutive lots of all-white nominees. That's why this year's criticism of the nominees has escalated into a more significant boycott - one time could be an anomaly, but twice in a row is a little harder to accept. Things aren't helped by the Academy trying to shrug this off through their host's jokes (such as NPH's "best and whitest" crack at last year's ceremony).

I'm not sure how such a field could be randomised anyway, let alone what effect it would have on the probability of all the nominees being white. Without a definite amount of nominees from which to create a representative sample size, there's no telling how often you'd end up with an all-white array of nominees. For all we know, "occasionally" could end up being a gross underestimation, but without concrete data to build off, examining probabilities like this feels fundamentally pointless.

Why not? What if it's the systemic racism itself that is preventing people of colour from making sufficient headway in that industry in the first place? If that's what needs to be dismantled in order for people of colour to provide even an approximate reflection of their overall numbers within the general population then people probably shouldn't be so quick to disregard or even defend allegations of misrepresentation.

Yeah, correlation does not equate to causation and all that. If nothing else, the decision to start inducting new members from a wider variety of backgrounds can at least be seen as an experiment to either prove or disprove any inherent biases on the part of the Academy's current members. Besides, fixing things from the top-down is arguably the most pragmatic way to resolve such a perpetually steep uphill struggle - and who's to say the Academy isn't responsible for doing cultural policing of its own?

The guys at South Park. Also, Sexy. ;)

Re: #Oscarssowhite
 

I rest my case.

It kinda saddens me that someone got banned for saying "jerkoff" while the person who used the word "cishet" is still around.