MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

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Guest star: Raul! I hope the rest of you (especially who voted) watched and are ready to enjoy the podcast, bestow unto us your ramblings.

Note: this is not the thread of remembrance for the blue man genocide.

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I’m not great at explaining my thoughts on films but I’ll give it a try.

I first saw Fantastic Planet in my teens, I think. It’s possible I saw it when I was younger, but I consider my first viewing to be in my teens, because that’s when it was really cemented as one of my favorite films. I used to be kind of an artist, and Fantastic Planet inspired me like nothing else. I actually remember printing out screenshots and trying to learn crosshatching by tracing them. I absolutely adore its art style. It’s really a film where you could take just about any frame and put it up on the wall as a piece of art. People have called it stale, but I think the lack of fluid motion is part of the charm, really. It adds to the unique, alien feel of the film.

The score is my favorite score in film. I’ve listened to the soundtrack over and over again, and I’ve never gotten bored with it. I used to drive around and listen to it, trying to come up with story ideas, and again it inspired me to think up weird stories.

Lastly, I think this is the greatest portrayal of an alien world in cinematic history. I’ve never seen anything better. It’s surreal and weird, and it’s absolutely beautiful. Every viewing of Fantastic Planet has been a profound experience for me.

Here’s a painting my sister made for me for Christmas 2008.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1...psf4f544c4.jpg

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

Happy to hear about that, I have those kinds of influences too, not with this movie as intensely as other things, but still glad to see that kind of impact.

I guess I have to ask if the movie inspired you enough to learn French? :D

Great podcast. It sounds like all three of you liked it. Here are some comments:

- I never made the comparison between the art style of this film and Monty Python. That's a good comparison, even though I think both are still unique in their own way.

- I like that Raul mentioned that Oms reminding him of ants. Every time I watch the stepping on Oms scene, I am reminded of ants.

- I agree about the ending being a parallel to the Cold War. Fantastic Planet has a lot of parallels, it seems.

- I do think The Savage Planet would be a better English title for the film, but I'm used to Fantastic Planet.

- Please don't kill my avatar! :D

It didn't, but I have taken French classes in High School and college and love listening to the language, even if I can't remember much of it myself. I can't stand the English version of Fantastic Planet, the voices all sound off to me and the original French recording is magnificent.

All I can really remember about the language myself is: Je m'appelle Swan!

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

Wish I could listen to it now but I'm at work. I'm sure I sound like a goofball :). It was fun though.

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

I've finally listened to it. Feels very weird listening to myself.

I'm with you Swan on the whole score thing. I know people are a bit up in the air on whether or not the score for the film worked, but like I said, it's a pretty addictive tune in my book.

One thing I didn't hit on that I wanted to was when Ter was whistling to break the crystals after being taught to do that (or so I assumed). I'm wondering the meaning of this, I took it to be like a human teaching their pet how to lay down, sit or roll over, but by teaching this, they made Ter gain some confidence in what he is able to do.

I found it fascinating how many of the ohms simply didn't trust Ter when he met up with them in their "neighborhood". I think it's because they believe the Draags tried to sort of hypnotize Ter in a way.

I got lost in a lot of the references to the Cold War initially, but I do see the parallels now that I think of it. Just something I would have probably missed without a true discussion on it.

The visuals were mesmerizing to me. It is unlike anything I have ever seen from its time period and it was very captivating to me. If anything, one must truly be appreciative of this.

Like I think it is assumed, I very much enjoyed the film. I would give it probably a 8.5/10 or maybe even a 9/10. I really enjoyed it and that may shock some.

And I apologize for my birds.

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

I'm slacking, I'll try to watch this before the weekend.

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

I still need to listen to the previous one, but now I get to hear raul...cool.

At the end of the podcast, when Yoda mentioned the Beatles movie which is pointless, and winter says Yellow Submarine, you guys finally connected with what I was thinking the whole time. The themes, the visuals, the music, etc. which you were discussing as unique (and to a point they are) were also seen and heard in Yellow Submarine. Too bad you didn't mention anything else about it except that it's pointless. :)

Maybe I'll add some more about Fantastic Planet later.

This is my insightful contribution to the discussion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA52uNzx7Y4

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

I'd love to hear interviews with members about their favourite films......but that's for another thread.

I haven't seen Yellow Submarine since I was a kid. I should watch it again, it looks like something I would like.

I was talking to my wife about Fantastic Planet shortly after we'd recorded the podcast, and I thought of a lot of things I wish I'd said. So I'll just say them now! :)

I touch on this in the podcast a little, but the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that the film's about knowledge more than anything else. Obviously, the Oms are oppressed, but the why is the focus: they're oppressed because they're ignorant. They don't deserve to be treated like animals, but they do act like them, drinking blood, participating in Pagan-esque sexual rituals, and fighting amongst themselves despite sharing a much larger common threat. And it's their disposal of these things that ultimately gains them equality. They stop being oppressed when they know enough to realize they are being oppressed.

http://blogofthenorthstar.com/wp-con...ticplanet3.jpg

At first, I thought it was odd how quickly they utilized technology and put themselves on even (or perhaps even superior) footing to the Draags. But the more I think about it, the more it makes sense: the Oms cherish their knowledge, because they have to struggle to get it. Terr uses the learning device whenever he gets a chance, whereas Tiwa has to be scolded into doing it, like most children with their homework. Terr has to drag the device around with him in order to continue learning.

It's like that quote from Ian Malcolm in Jurassic Park (emphasis added): "I'll tell you the problem with the scientific power that you're using here: it didn't require any discipline to attain it."

The Draags are complacent. They are decadent. They take their knowledge for granted and spend all day in some sort of meditative sex state. Nobody notices or cares when an Om makes off with one of their learning devices. But when one of them interferes with their Space Sex Waltz? Sound the freakin' alarms.

https://archive.org/download/Fantast...anet-10470.jpg

There's probably a lot more to say about this, and I expect reading the source material (a book) might shed a little light on the original intent. But I think there's a lot here about not just oppression, but the kinds of indirect ways that people either become oppressors, or allow themselves to stay oppressed.

It's entirely possible the creators had the subject of knowledge in mind. I think the story is simple enough and universal enough that you can pull a lot from it. That's one of my favorite things about it.

I, ashamed to say, have not read the book. Maybe I should, but I've found reading a book can make its film adaptation feel really short, like it's hitting the cliffnotes. On the other hand, maybe the book simply expands on the Draag society and all it's complexities, which would be interesting to read about.

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

Awesome podcast guys, wish I could offer some insight into the film but I think I'd need to watch it at least one more time to truly write an insightful little essay. I will however write some notes on what I thought was really damn cool with the film.

Obviously the animation is....very unique. Definitely a visual treat, and I love the designs of the the creatures we see in the film, they are badas*. I mean just look at this picture, how cool is that?

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2442/4...f3d_z.jpg?zz=1

But stepping aside from my praise of the animation, I really like how this film shows humans as little insignificant ants. It's a nice role change, and it's rather funny in a way. Human-Beings are arrogant, and we believe we are in charge.We're the big guys in the universe and every other creature is at our heels. But what would happen, if we were the insignificant little beings? I'm not quite sure if there's one blunt interpretation of what the film is trying to say, be it an allegory or whatever. But I think that's awesome. Every person watching it can form a different interpretation.

I definitely underrated this one when I posted my rating of it in the Movie Tab, so i'll give it another go sometime.

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

I'm glad you hit on the creatures Lucas. They were very interesting to me, these Pokemon inspirations. I wanted to hit on it more in the podcast, but I was a rookie after all.

Very interesting observation. Appreciation of knowledge is still a very modern issue. The sincere curiosity and inventive use of their acquired knowledge is ultimately what makes the Oms prevail. Knowledge is power when used in the proper manner.

Apart from the obvious references to slavery and all that, I think Fantastic Planet is also just a very interesting criticism of our modern human attitude. The Draags' complacency is very sharply portrayed and their blindness and lack of empathy for the Oms is a very clear result of that. They don't use their developed state of general intelligence as they should.
This complacency actually makes them lose the curiosity for knowledge and understanding that the Oms (on the other hand) are starting to acquire. The Draags fight against what they can't control or understand, but ultimately that only makes the situation worse. A more studious and progressive approach would have been much more appropriate than the hostile attitude they ultimately adopt.

It really is a film full of interesting themes and ideas. Besides that I also enjoyed the beautiful, unique visuals and the atmosphere of this film (the music score adds a very peculiar and effective mood for instance).

It's definitely a film that I would rewatch in the future! I enjoyed it thoroughly.

My current rating would be

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

Just listened to this and the Cries and Whispers, it was great. Thanks a lot to those who participated and I look forward to the next podcast.

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

Swan changes his avatar in the month of this film being the Winner for the movie club? I'm saddened.

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

I am too. I'm considering going back.

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

It's become far too iconic for you. It would be like Cobpyth or Harry Lime changing theirs.

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

What are you talking about? I never changed my avatar!

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

I must have drank some spiked punch.

My thoughts are somewhat scattered from my viewing of Fantastic Planet, the film starts off suave as hell with the electronic score and the opening film title:

Le Planète Sauvage

In this fanastic (or wild plaent, going by direct translation) blue intellectual faints rule over humans. Similar to human interaction with animals, some of the giants consider the humans pests (although acklonledging their high organizational skills), while some of these humans are kept as pets with collars and getting dressed up in ridiculous clothing. While this is just a micro allusion that the film makes, there's a lot of greater symbolism.

The two main themes I reached were oppression (through political systems) and knowledge (which is a tool to fight oppression). It's hard to say which system each life of our protagonist represent. When Terr was kept as a pet to the blue giants, he's like an object of the state. When the domesticated Terr goes into the wild, he joins a more communal system, but which still adores and relies on it's leaders. While it feels that the film is pointing towards the cold war in it's symbolism- space ships representing the scientific exploration for example- it's hard to make a distinction creating a capitalistic and communistic system. Perhaps the film shows they're closer to the same than they're given credit for. Regardless in both systems knowledge brings power, and in both systems it's oppressed.

The animation is very stoic, often leaving lots of blank space, and rarely fluid. There are many great "sanpshots" in the film, often showing creativity, and the images our interesting. But I can't say I'm overly impressed by the animation itself, simply since I've seen more appealing.

The film left me somewhat unaffected, it has some thought provoking spiritual and political under tones, but nothing that lasted.



I think I shall give the podcast a listen now.

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

For it's time I don't think the animation left a lot of "blank space". What animation works for you from that time period Donnie?

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

I'm not an animation buff, as most people on the forum know, but there are some styles from the period I like more. Jan Svankmajer's pieces (claymation) from about late 1960s-1980s impresses me much more for example. And in addition animates films that I've seen from today might be a reason why the animation in Fantastic Planet appeared stoic to me.

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

What do you mean it leaves a lot of "blank spaces"?

The background was often very blank

e.g.

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There were scenes with a lot going on in the background, but the scenes with emptiness made the lack of motion more apparent, and while many of these look great as just a snapshot, when it comes to an animated whole it makes the picture seem less fluid, as I mentioned.

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

I think that's a decent observation. Modern animated films are packed with detail, foreground and background, but in the past animation was quite expensive, so it was a lot more minimalist. Lots of scenes only contain the bare minimum. I don't know if this is a problem, exactly, but it's definitely a difference between animation then and animation now.

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

It's called negative space, just for knowin' sakes.

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

I didn't realize the negative space much because I was paying attention to the finer details of the characters themselves. So that aspect of the film didn't have an impact on me. I see what you mean though.

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

I feel like I am a little late too the party here and everything I have to say has pretty much been covered, but a great podcast guys and some more great posts in the thread.

What Swan says about almost every frame could be framed and admired is definitely true, I definitely disagree with Donnie in that I absolutely love the animation style and think it works fabulously. Definitely felt a Terry Gilliam vibe from it, but it's unique and refreshing in it's own way, it's obviously cheap and allows for a lot of freedom, producing some very memorable and bizarre creatures that kind of reminded me of Flanimals :D

In terms of plot and such everything's been covered, it's quite a simplistic story that allows for many analogies all involving the dangers of humanity and I do think that as such the lack of real character development and emotional story left me less connected than I could have been to make the film 'truly great'. At the start of the story with the Om escaping from his owner, I thought that might have later become important in a kind of Pocahontas style story, but instead the later half acts less personally and more as a metaphor, all the creatures appear pretty much the same and I didn't really feel any empathy or such towards anyone in particular.

Definitely a very good film, and I'm glad that I watched it. Fascinating to look at and interesting to analysis, but overall I don't think its complex or focused enough for me to become involved to the point where I fell in love.

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

We gonna do a July one?

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

I don't care what it's for, but surely I'm not alone in wanting a podcast with wintertriangles and Sexy Celebrity together? That would be gold.

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

I would love to see SC as a special guest. Or Cob, Harry Lime, or Swan

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

Lime already got back to me about it, said he preferred not to, so I won't hassle him about it

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

It's in my top 100 animations list (working on it). It's a very intellectual documentary style science fiction movie. I would rate it even higher if I had greater emotional attachment to it though.

No.

Modern animation has about the same level of detail as past animation as backgrounds, which consist the bulk of the detail, have about the same level of detail. Though thanks to computers today it's possible to increase the glossiness of the backgrounds to artificial levels which were not possible using only paint. Character design, though, have become more sophisticated in both 2d and 3d animation.

Compare:

(1984, Nausicaa)

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https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-w...0/002052jp.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EXgDI8DeN_...600/Image2.jpg

(2013, Garden of Words)

https://thehaphazard.files.wordpress...enshot-007.png

https://thehaphazard.files.wordpress...014.png?w=1200

https://thehaphazard.files.wordpress...enshot-006.png

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-b...snap-00076.jpg

You would be right if you compare a Disney movie from the 1990's like Lion King with a 2012 Pixar movie like Brave:

http://media.cinemasquid.com/blu-ray...hot-med-01.jpg

http://www.cinemasoldier.com/storage...=1309043584837

But I think that Disney films had low degree of visual complexity because the target audience is younger than in most other animated films. Though you should note that American animated features from Disney, Dreamworks and Pixar consist of only a very small fraction of the total number of animated films in existence.

Among the 500 animated films that I have watched I do not notice any overall significant trend in the degree of visual complexity from the mid 1980's onwards. Japanese animated films from the 1980's are about as complex visually as anything made afterwards, although with a less glossly look if compared to the computer processed visuals of Garden of Words (which magnify contrast and everything else to degree impossible with handrawn paintings)

Or if you restrict attention to character design only since with computers you can made a model and move it as you want while in hand drawn animation complexity is restricted since you need to drawn each frame when the character move. Old anime solved the problem while having complex character designs by simply not moving the character at all besides the mouth in most scenes though. :D

Not sure how I missed this before, but here's my reply:

1) You've provided one example (Nausicaa) of an older film with a fair amount of background detail, but you've cherry-picked its shots. Plenty of them are just general hued colors, like this, this and this. That second one wouldn't look out of place behind Ash Ketchum.

2) Your second example is from 2013, and thus inapplicable, given that my statement was more about the intersection of time and cost and not just animation style.

3) I was observing a general trend, not a universal one, so producing a few contrary examples doesn't contradict that.

4) The film that sparked this observation was made in 1973. So when you go on to say "I do not notice any overall significant trend in the degree of visual complexity from the mid 1980's onwards," it's a non-sequitur.

5) I don't think it's remotely accurate to say that modern animation just increases the "glossiness" of backgrounds. Take a look at this:

http://www.movieforums.com/images/es...40-46%20PM.png

That isn't just gloss, that's detail. And when you say this was "not possible using only paint," you're agreeing with me. The issue wasn't whether or not we should fault the animators for the lack of detail, but only that there was less detail because various factors--budget, time, the medium itself--limited what they could do.

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

Maybe the next movie club could be about a potential 70s countdown threat to win.

Re: MoFo MC May: Fantastic Planet (1973)
 

I think we've already picked a theme, but given that the countdown will take a couple of months, we could probably do some kind of tie-in, even if it's just "pick from these surprisingly high, lesser-known 70s movies." I'd be down for that.