5 Movies for an American History Class
 

If you were going to show 5 movies in an American history class what would you show?

http://otherstuff.laurelandhardycent...ixm/grapes.jpg

The Grapes of Wrath
The Best Years of Our Lives
Executive Suite
12 Angry Men
Network

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1.shnidlers list
2.das boot
3.pearl harbor
4.band of brothers
5.the wave

http://images.overstock.com/f/102/31...dvd/169049.jpg
http://www.devoteddvd.com.au/aiimages/lrg_DVLDAY.jpg
http://aolshop.com/media/coverart/dv...47118wqfmz.jpgor something else set around prohibition
http://images.rottentomatoes.com/ima.../52/237152.jpg
http://media.movieweb.com/galleries/...ster1_full.jpg Maybe not this term though......

Hey, Diamond: you can't hotlink to images on the IMDb. YOU might be seeing the pictures, but we aren't.

DePalma's The Untouchables has such little historical accuracy I wouldn't show it in a classroom setting, other than as a joke. And as World Trade Center is still in the theaters, it would be tough to show it in school this Fall.

My u.s. history teacher showed us Matewan in class, which was pretty cool.

Personally, I'm against using movies as teacher's aides, by which I mean using them at face value to tell a "historicy". Partly this is because "historical" movies are generally pretty propagandist about their given topic, but more generally part of what movies aim to solve in telling a story is how to pare down all the complex and ephemeral links of causation into a pure and coherent vehicle. Even the best movies do this to some extent, and it's just bad history. On the other hand there are plenty of movies that would be good to use as historical artifacts, some of which are also pretty unavoidable in that movies are actually a driving force of much of 20th century historical consciousness. I can't remember the names in particular, but I mean to show things like how the U.S. defense establishment and hollywood used movies to rebuild europe (and basically invented the notion of Paris as "the city of romance'n'love" to attract tourists) after ww2, or using the birth of a nation to show some of the notions and arguments about blacks, and how it was used to reinvent the long-dead kkk as a mass movement (of course teaching it in the context of how that came about, how and why it was different from other incarnations the klan took at different times and different places). Gabriel Over the Whitehouse is a good 30s movie to show as part of a discussion of the ways in which the popular (and practical) idea of what the presidency should be changed, how it's different and how it's the same as today or at other times, and why. I really think that as long as you're carefully using films as artifacts or primary sources rather than as secondary sources (that is, tools to inform your own explanation of history), pretty much anything is fare game.

Hey Holden, can you give me some insight as to why you picked this as one of your 5?

http://www.gonemovies.com/WWW/XsFilm...12AngryMen.jpg http://images.rottentomatoes.com/ima.../143941_rt.jpg
"I don't feel I have to be loyal to one side or the other. I'm just asking questions."
Sidney Lumet's suspenseful and timelessly powerful dramatization of the flaws and strengths of our legal system is a quintessential American movie. Individuals may have their own petty points of view and deep-seeded prejudices which, unchecked, can lead to injustice. But the system is constructed so that reason and reasonable doubt can override and overrule on the side of equality and fairness. That such a system doesn't always work is frustrating, but that it can work is inspiring, and we should all aspire to be as stalwart and brave as Fonda's juror number eight. He represents the ideal American citizen.

I think I would go with

• Th Crucible
• Amistad
• Glory
• Good Night, and Good Luck
• 12 Angry Men

I also like Black Robe (even though it's set in Canada), Reds, Citizen Kane, Inherit the Wind, Thirteen Days, Malcolm X and All the President's Men.

Also scenes from Gone with the Wind (burning Atlanta), Gettysburg (Pickett's Charge) and Saving Private Ryan (the Normandy landing).

While all the movies are flawed as pure history, each gives a flavor of its time and the events that they portray.

Malcolm X
Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media
Fog of War
Wonderland (1997)
Matewan

Birth of a Nation
Good Night and Good Luck
Dr. Strangelove
Rocky 4
Fight Club

While longer, and much more outdated, I would probably go more with Tora, Tora, Tora. That's me though.

I would go with Tora, Tora, Tora as well. Much more of a respected film. I wouldn't want my students leaving my class saying "Well, I learned that Ben Affleck in Pearl Harbor..."

1.Grapes of Wrath was the first to come to mind
2. Gettysburg
blanking... will have to research.

Depends on the type of US history class. For learning about US culture say 1940s to 1960s, I'd go with something like the below. Not all landmark films, but ones that I think give a pretty good picture of the US at that time, although admittedly in each case they are from the latter part of each decade. Probably a little off topic & might make a better new thread(?):

1940's
1. Double Indemnity
2. His Girl Friday
3. Citizen Kane (just because you'd have to)
1950's
4. The Man in the Grey Flannel Suit
5. Psycho
6. The Seven Year Itch
1960's
7. The Apartment
8. Fritz the Cat (no really, it's a neat nutshell of culture)
9. Easyrider (again, because you'd have to)

1.Das Boots
2.Bad Boys(the one with sean penn)
3.The Killing Fields
4.Salvador
5.Freaks!

Glory

Malcom X

The Killing Fields

JFK

Thirteen Days

Only One Movie
 

ORIGINAL MANCHURIAN CANIDATE.....VERY GOOD.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

If I were to show five movies to an American history class, I would show them Saving Private Ryan, Troy, Good Night and Good Luck, Remember the Titans, and Forrest Gump.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

This would be difficult to answer.

I would probably choose

All Quiet on the Western Front
On the Waterfront
Singin' in the Rain
Little Big Man
King of the Hill (1993, Soderbergh)

I think all of those touch on a point in American history and a different setting. A nice mix of older and newer films. All relevant I think.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

I agree "12 Angry Men" is a great movie, but it is not very accurate. Take for example, Henry Fonda goes out at lunch and buys an identical switchblade that he then brings into the jury room as evidence that such weapons are common. In the first place, today--and I suspect even then when the film was made--courts do not allow jurors in amurder trial to go out on their own to lunch. They go in a group, accompanied by a baliff to make sure jurors do not talk to others or even each other about the proceedings outside the jury room. So Fonda's character would have had no chance for individual shopping. Secondly, jurors or other court officials cannot introduce into the jury room during deliberations any evidence not produced in the courtroom during the trial. The switchblade--which triggered the resulting reenactments--was not legitimate evidence introduced during the trial and therefore was grounds for stopping the trial because of misbehavior of a juror. The jurors could ask to see the murder weapon that was introduced as evidence during the trial, but they couldn't bring in a similar knife that wasn't part of the evidence chain. All Fonda's character could do was to tell the others he's seen switchblades similar to the murder weapon, but he couldn't bring in one to show it to them.

I think there were other mistakes, but it's been a long time since I last saw that film. But I never believed Lee J. Cobb's and Ed Beagley's switching their votes. What was their motivation? Cobb had been too angry too long to give in like that, and if Beagley's racial prejuduce really would wilt that easily in the face of public disapproval, the world would be a much better place.

The Navy court martial scenes in "The Caine Mutiny" were more authentic as to procedure, but even there they went for drama over reality.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Hi rufnek. :)

I think the point of 12 Angry Men being shown in History class is not only that the Jury system is very real and very possible to participate in but also the message behind it and how you should behave if you get there. Precise accuracy doesn't matter so much. The message being that everyone has a responsibility to their fellow countrymen and woman if ever to be called for Jury duty to not assume or go rushing into the facts whether he/she is guilty or innocent just because you want to go to some ball game.
Hopefully, it will instill some sort of a well formed conscience into the students watching the film in case it's ever their turn to be part of the Jury.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

I'd definitely agree with Citizen Kane, because it really was based on newspaper magnate William Randolph Hearst and it captured the spirit of that time period.

As for the others I'd pick Manchurian Candidate, Birth of a Nation, Saving Private Ryan, and...Forrest Gump?

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Originally Posted by Escape (Post 366687)

I think the point of 12 Angry Men being shown in History class is not only that the Jury system is very real and very possible to participate in but also the message behind it and how you should behave if you get there. Precise accuracy doesn't matter so much.

I understand and appreciate where you're coming from. Where we disagree is with your statement, “Precise accuracy doesn't matter so much.” As a history buff, I'm convinced that precise accuracy is essential in teaching history. Which is why I would hesitate about showing nearly any Hollywood film as part of a history class. "12 Angry Men" might make a good object lesson for a civics class where the concentration is solely on civic responsibilities of citizens. But even then, I would want an experienced attorney to explain all the inaccuracies to students. Otherwise, they are going to be very surprised about the role of jurors and the presentation of evidence when they are called for jury duty.

If we just had to show a film about U.S. jurisprudence in a history class, I'd pick the 1941 movie “The Devil and Daniel Webster,” based on a short story by Stephen Vincent Benet in which the historic New England legislator in the days just prior to the Civil War is called on to defend a neighbor in a dispute with the Devil over the man's soul before a jury picked from hell. Jurors include “Walter Butler, the Loyalist, who spread fire and horror through the Mohawk Valley in the times of the Revolution; and there was Simon Girty, the renegade, who saw white men burned at the stake and whooped with the Indians to see them burn. His eyes were green, like a catamount's, and the stains on his hunting shirt did not come from the blood of the deer. King Philip was there, wild and proud as he had been in life, with the great gash in his head that gave him his death wound, and cruel Governor Dale, who broke men on the wheel. There was Morton of Merry Mount, who so vexed the Plymouth Colony, with his flushed, loose, handsome face and his hate of the godly. There was Teach, the bloody pirate, with his black beard curling on his breast. The Reverend John Smeet, with his strangler's hands and his Geneva gown, walked as daintily as he had to the gallows. The red print of the rope was still around his neck, but he carried a perfumed handkerchief in one hand. One and all, they came into the room with the fires of hell still upon them, and the stranger named their names and their deeds as they came, till the tale of twelve was told. Yet the stranger had told the truth --- they had all played a part in America.” The presiding judge was “Justice Hathorne” who presided at certain witch trials once held in Salem. There were others who repented of the business later, but not he.”

As for the integrity of trial by jury, at the end of the trial in “The Devil and Mr. Webster, “Walter Butler rose in his place and his face had a dark, gay pride on it. ‘The jury has considered its verdict,’ he said, and looked the stranger [the Devil] full in the eye. ‘We find for the defendant, Jabez Stone.’ With that, the smile left the stranger's face, but Walter Butler did not flinch. ‘Perhaps 'tis not strictly in accordance with the evidence,’ he said, ‘but even the damned may salute the eloquence of Mr. Webster.’”
Both stories are fiction, but “The Devil and Daniel Webster” at least involved real figures from American history. I also found a website with class instructions for a course in which students were conduct a mock trial. Those instructions said: “Lawyers and witnesses read ‘A Retrieved Reformation’ from the xeroxed copy. Jurors read ‘The Devil and Daniel Webster’ on page 583 in the Literature book.”
http://www.villagechristian.org/faculty/petersonb/sept26-30.html

Apparently I’m not the only one who thinks it might be instructive about U.S. jurisprudence.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

"Citizen Kane" is indeed a great film--my favorite, in fact, but I'm not sure what history lesson it teaches or about what period since it essentially covers the fictitious Kane from his boyhood in the late 1800s to his death sometime in the 1930s-1940s, maybe 1950s. I might consider it for a journalism class--it's very true to investigative reporting in general and the filming of movie news reels in the 1940s-1950s.

Anyway, I'm curious about the original "Manchurian Candidate." It's another of my favorites but I'm not sure what history lesson it illustrates.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Ok you have a good point. I think I was getting carried away with the morality of the story as opposed with the History of the film of which this thread intended.
Maybe it would be best if I try to fit that movie in the historically exceptional films category lol.


Hmm, but now I have to disagree with you here if we are to try to get as close to precise History as possible. Ok the figures involved in this fictional story were real but the large part of it was not. I dunno. I could likewise say that in '12 Angry Men', I'm almost positive that there are or were many men and woman who in real life, witnesses similar attitudes during their jury duty experience, that we encountered in that movie. Just a matter of finding out the whos and the whens.
But if your looking for popular and recognizable historical figures that were caught up in a similar setting of a hot, muggy jury deliberation room with a wide range of deliberators from bright and empathetic to arrogant, impatient, and prejudiced.....well then that may be tough to find. :yup:

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Originally Posted by Escape (Post 366720)

Hmm, but now I have to disagree with you here if we are to try to get as close to precise History as possible.

Like I said, both stories are purest fiction. You and I agree on that. But if forced to use a Hollywood movie for historical instruction, I see more historic significance in the verdict delivered in the "The Devil and Daniel Webster" because something very like that verdict led to the idea of freedom of the press as enshrined in the U.S. Constitution. In 1735, a printer, John Peter Zenger was prosecuted by the colonial governor of New York for seditious libel. It was an open and shut case under British law. Any written criticism of the king’s government was sedition, and criticism of the king’s officers was libelous, especially if the charges were true. Once those charges were proven under British law, the only thing left for a jury to do was to return a verdict of guilty.

Andrew Hamilton, Zenger’s lawyer, said yes, Zenger wrote it and yes it was libelous under English law. However, he went on to argue that an American jury has the right to decide if a law deserves to be enforced or not, an argument previously unheard of in British courts. He argued that the jurors had the right to decide, contrary to English law, there is no libel if the charges are true. To the horror of the king’s officials (much like the Devil’s displeasure in the Benet story), the jury found Zenger not guilty. And truth of the charges remains a defense against libel in US courts today.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Hey, Escape, I'm really not dissing your selection of "12 Angry Men." Like I said before, I really like the film and I agree with you that it does support our jury system, more so than a lot of other films about the judiciary.

It may play with reality to enhance the drama, but at least it doesn't come out with a flat-out lie like some so-called "historic" films--"Flags of Our Fathers," for one.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Just a couple words here, more of an extended welcome to Rufnek...

From my very brief and I must say, pleasant encounters with Rufnek, I have quickly gathered that his knowledge of historical accuracy in film is, although not totally comprehensive, pretty accurate and on point. A welcome, addition, I might add. I mean, hey, if you need some info on surrealist, clearly historically inaccurate film, I'm your guy, but.... This cat knows his stuff, from what I can tell. Well read and articulate, I am glad he stopped by....


Here is to a lengthy tenure on MoFo....


Re: Manchurian Candidate (1962) - This is clearly fiction, or, even science fiction if you stretch. I would actually dog-ear this one as a film NOT to show in a history class. A film class, sure, as it is some piece of work. Chilling, even today. One of the best films of the 60s, IMO. Quite outlandish, and with a BIG slant, so not for history, but man, the underlying political concepts beyond the sleeper agent stuff are important and downright scary. A must see.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Yep, I believe I get you now. :yup:

Oh I know rufnek. I never for one minute thought you were. And Sedai's right. You do know your stuff. ;)

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Citizen Kane revealed aspects about the Spanish American War and the fact that yellow journalism was so rampant during that time period. The public was basically believed anything the newspapers said and the newspaper took advantage of this to the fullest by exaggerating and sensetionalizing the stories. Kane said something like "You furnish the pictures, I'll furnish the war" which directly relates to the Spanish American War and how he went out of his way to exaggerate the true situation in Cuba.

And plus, some aspects are almost biographical about William Randolph Hearst. That's the reason it didn't win the Oscars it rightfully deserved: because Hearst was so violently against the movie he threatened Hollywood...to something if they gave Welles the Oscars and so the awards went to worse, less deserving movies.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

And I suppose Manchurian Candidate is completely off your list, so never mind.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Well.... if you have strong reasons why this should be on the list, I would like to hear them. Speaking about the original release here. I haven't seen the new cut, and don't plan on it.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Okay, I see what you're spotlighting now. By the way, Hearst's (Kane's) instructions have long been quoted by us journalists, but to the best of my knowledge never actually proved. Here’s what a freedomforum.org report said about that:

"[O]ne of the most famous purported boasts of American journalism" was made during Cuba's civil war, which took place in 1896 and 1897, Campbell said [W. Joseph Campbell, an American University professor and a consultant at The Freedom Forum].
Hearst reputedly sent a cable to New York Journal illustrator Frederic Remington, who was then in Cuba and wanting to return to the United States. Supposedly the cable said: "Please remain. You furnish the pictures, I'll furnish the war."
But Hearst's sending such a message would have made no sense, Campbell said, because there was already a war under way at the time.
"Hearst vowing to furnish the war just was incongruous with what his own newspapers were saying at the time," he said. "That anecdote deserves to be relegated to the closet of historical imprecision."
http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=13715

On the other hand, remember Kane's instruction to send a reporter to the husband of a missing woman and demand loudly, in front of his neighbors, that he produce her? "If the man questions the reporter's authority, he is to accuse him of being a communist and anarchist," Kane said. Now things like that frequently happened in turn-of-the-century Yellow Journalism.

Like I said, I love "Citizen Kane." But if you want a film that would teach students about the use and abuse of The Press, I would suggest any of the several film versions of "Front Page," especially "His Girl Friday," with Cary Grant and Roz Russel which I think is the best of the bunch. It has everything--crooked politicians trying to cash in on an execution, press exaggerations of events, power plays among government officials and editors. It takes place in the 1930s, which really is after the Yellow Press days, but it has all of the same elements. Plus it was written by two experienced ex-newsmen who had worked the police beat for big city papers (One was the father of James McArthur who later played "Dan-O" in the "Hawaii Five-0" TV series).

Well, certainly Welles and his supporters always claimed that, and there probably is some truth in it, but how much, I don't know. Remember that was Welles' first film and he did a lot of new things with sets and camera shots that Hollywood had never seen before and that some of the Hollywood producers didn't like. Welles had a gift for alienating a lot of Hollywood bigwigs and they may have been more influential than Hearst in torpedoing Welles' career. Of course, Welles contributed to that himself by running films over budget and going off on other projects when he should have been editing his last film instead.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

I love the original "Manchurian Candidate"! You've got great taste in films! I just wondered what history lesson you see in that particular movie. I can think of others that better explain the Korean War or the use of brainwashing. Or if it's the political process and presidential succession, how about "Advise and Consent"? For attempts at presidential assassination, you can't beat Frank Sinatra in "Suddenly."

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Wow! Thanks for the endorsements, Escape and Sedai. The checks are in the mail!

Seriously, I've enjoyed our exchanges, too.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Well if I remember right, the switchblade they brought in was the actual murder weapon. Fonda had just bought a similar one and had it on him. And I don't know what procedure would have been back then or even today for juries.

As for Ed Beagley's prejudice, I don't think the movie (and it's been a long time since I've seen it as well) said he wasn't still racist, but I think it's realistic that even though a person might be racist, they're not going to allow an innocent person of that race to die. Now if he would have gone home and promised never say wetback again, then I would agree with you.

As for Cobb, yes he was angry, but he's never had a release for that anger until it was sparked with the jury. It was the first time that he brought that out in the open. I think the bit with Cobb is some of the best material in the entire film and the most realistic.

And The Caine Mutiny is a great movie as well.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Well, as a history buff you should know that there is no such thing as precise accuracy. If you gather 12 people around to watch one event and then get them alone you're going to get 12 different tellings of the same event. That's how history is. No one ever knows what really happened with certain incidents because there are many sides to it. Now I understand you can have historical figures like the length of a ship, the weight of a cannon and items like that be based on fact. But as far as the stories, which are what movies tell, you're not going to have an objective thing to adapt.

I greatly favor showing movies in history class, if for nothing else, to have the students gain a visual and a context to put what they read in. I think you need to put a face to it. I know that if I hadn't watched The Grapes of Wrath and All Quiet on the Western Front in history classes I wouldn't have been able to understand and put a frame around those time periods like I can now.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Having criticized aspects of others’ selections, let me take a shot at picking films for a class in US history. Of course, it depends on what aspect of American history you want to examine. And all of these selections naturally would require some discussion with students over what is real and what is fantasy.

Starting with the discovery and early exploration period, I’d pick Captain From Castille (1948). Cesar Romero appears older and has many more Spaniards (men and women) with him than did the real Cortez, but the film provides an insight into the motivation of the conquistadores and their recruitment of other tribes to overthrow the Aztec.

On the other hand, if you were looking at British colonization, I’d suggest Plymouth Adventure (1952), a romanticized telling of the Mayflower adventure. For French colonization, Black Robe (1991).

Two good films about the French & Indian wars, Drums Along the Mohawk (1939) and the 1992 remake of The Last of the Mohicans (1992) The latter contains a lot of little unmentioned historical details that add a lot of color, like the Jesuit priest leading a choir of Indian children in serenading the French commander outside the beleaguered British fort.

There are surprisingly few good films about the American Revolution. The most historically accurate one I’ve seen is a 2000 A&E film The Crossing about the key battle for Trenton, with Jeff Daniels as an impressive George Washington. My other favorite Revolutionary War film is The Devil's Disciple (1959) with Burt Lancaster, Kirk Douglas, and Laurence Olivier, from George Bernard Shaw’s play. It accurately portrays the arrogance and ignorance of British officials that forced many reluctant American colonists to revolt and the British blunders that resulted in an American victory.

For the early Western movement, A Man Called Horse (1970) and Man in the Wilderness (1971), interestingly both starring Richard Harris, long before his Dumbledore days. Both are about as historically accurate as Hollywood can get. Across the Wide Missouri (1951) with Clark Gable as a mountain man is another good film. For a later view of the Indian Wars in the late 19th Century, The Searchers (1956) is about as good as it gets, although The Unforgiven (1960) with Burt Lancaster and Audrey Hepburn, is a good account of the animosities and prejudices among settlers and Indians on the Texas plains. Little Big Man (1970) also gives a more-comic-than-historic overview of that general period.

As for depicting the Civil War, not too many films have done a good job of that. The Red Badge of Courage (1951) is probably the best movie ever to capture the confusion of battle, but it doesn’t tell you much about the cause and effects of the war. Glory (1989) depicts the white abolitionists’, freed blacks’ and exslaves’ contributions to the war but doesn’t touch on other aspects. Ironically, the lesser Band of Angels (1957) gives more background in its exploration of the same subject. Despite some glaring flaws, I think Gettysburg (1993) best depicts both the horror and the bravery of that war.

Now comes the tough subject: the emergence of the US as an economic and world power in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Red River (1948) depicts the brief period of the cattle drives up from Texas, as does Cowboy (1958) with Jack Lemmon in an unusual role. The Westerner (1940), The Sea of Grass with Spencer Tracy (1947), and Shane (1953) explore the conflicts between cattlemen and sodbusters. Broken Lance (1954) pitted cattlemen against miners and bankers on a background of prejudice against Indians; The Sheepman (1958) gave us a tongue-in-cheek view of the cattleman-sheepman conflict (which was covered as well and in less time in some 1950s cartoons featuring “Droopy”). The end of the Old West: Monte Walsh (1970), although the 2003 remake with Tom Selleck wasn’t bad.

Development of the United States’ international power during Theodore Roosevelt’s presidency is nicely depicted in The Wind and the Lion (1975)

Set a little later in the early 20th century, Boom Town (1940), with Tracy and Gable looks at the development of the oil industry. There are some flaws, but this remains the most accurate film Hollywood ever made about the oil industry.

Probably the best film about American enterprise and society in the period before and after our entry into World War I is East of Eden (1955).

As for World War I, Hell's Angels (1930), All Quiet on the Western Front (1930), and Gallipoli (1981).

The period between the world wars: Elmer Gantry (1960), and The Music Man (1962); yep, a musical but it captures Middle America small-town life in that period. Centering on the Great Depression: The Grapes of Wrath (1940), as good as it gets. Second choice, Dead End (1937)—depression, labor problems, rich vs. poor, slums, and the criminals they produced.

World War II: This is another subject that’s hard to teach accurately through movies: The film that I think best captures the horror, inhumanity, and futility of war is Yesterday's Enemy (1959), actually made in Britain and starring Stanley Baker. No one film does a good job at explaining the causes and aftermath of World War II, but several give good snapshots of particular moments. Ike - Countdown to D-Day (2004) gives a nice overview of the complications behind Allied efforts in the war. The Longest Day (1962) does a good job of following Cornelius Ryan’s book. The Battle of Britain (1969) and Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo (1944) give a good view of the early days of the war when an Allied victory was far from assured. The Victors (1963) demonstrates the tragic losses of even the winning side and suggests why World War II led to the cold war. Judgment at Nuremberg (1961) best explains why that war had to be fought and won.

Post-war recovery: The Big Lift (1950) gives some insight into post-war European relief by the US. The Best Years of Our Lives (1946) addresses the problems of returning veterans, including some who were horribly wounded. Gentleman's Agreement (1947) showed bigotry and hatred were not dead or restricted to foreign lands. Pressure Point (1962) was one of the best and earliest films about racial prejudice, with outstanding performances by Sidney Portier and Bobby Darin. .

The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit (1956) explored the post-war corporate rat race in the US. So did How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying (1967) via music and comedy.

As for political campaigns and the political process in the 20th century, you can’t top The Last Hurrah (1958) or Advise and Consent (1962).

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

I think that if you were to go back and look at that particular scene, you'd see that the first view of a knife is when Fonda pulls it from his jacket pocket and tells the other jurors that he bought it while they were all out of the courthouse for lunch. The way I remember it, the jury never asks the court for the original murder weapon or any other evidence or instruction.
Having served on Texas juries, I know jurors are taken to lunch together and eat as a group and then return as a group to the courthouse, all under the watchful eyes of baliffs after being instructed by the judge not to talk about the case among themselves or with others. During voir dire and in instructions from the judge, jurors are told they cannot consider any "evidence" not presented in court. All of that means that Fonda could not have obtained the knife or presented it to other jurors in the jury room. The baseball fan could have made his game simply by reporting the improper action to the baliff who would have reported to the judge who would have declared a mistrial. That's how it would have worked in Texas. I'm sure the rules in your state are much the same.

We agree that Beagley's character was racist from start to finish--he was convinced that violence was what one could expect from "those people." And in viewing that movie, I never got the feeling that anyone ever convinced him otherwise. Nine of the jurors are persuaded one by one that there is evidence supporting a reasonable doubt of the boy's guilt. Even the baseball fan finds some justification for going along with not guilty. But from what I see in the movie, Beagley's character never sees anything that truly undermines his prejudice or raises a doubt about the boy's guilt. The other jurors turn away from him in disgust over his prejudicial spewings, and then he changes his vote. I just don't think that's in keeping with the character of someone who has carried that prejudice some 50 years and likely would carry it another 50. It was dramatic, but it just didn't ring true to me.

Cobb, for my money, was the outstanding member of that very talented cast, so I agree that his final outburst of anger was as you said "the best material in the entire film and the most realistic." It's the key scene in the whole picture and I understand why the playwright and director resolved the conflict in that manner.

As I see it, however, his real anger with his own son has been redirected all through the film toward the young man on trial. Cobb is mad and he wants to see someone suffer as he has suffered. We learn only at the last that his son is the cause of his suffering and anger but we never learn why. More important, we don't know if that anger is resolved when he tears up the photo and bursts into tears. Does he realize that moment that he's been taking his anger out of a kid that he thought all along might be innocent? Is he crying because he realizes that despite his anger, he still loves his son? Does he change his vote because he believes the boy is innocent, or as a symbol of forgiveness for his own son, or out of frustration because he knows there will never be any relief or reconciliation? Or does it really matter why he changes his vote?

Despite what I see as a couple of flaws of fact and character motivation, it's still one hell of a story and a great performance by all. And like my wife keeps reminding me, "They aren't shooting a documentary!"

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Not seeing Network talked about much, save HP's listing. I feel that the media is an incredibly powerful entity that, clearly, has had massive influence on recent history. I believe Network is the best film in this category, as well. Some might list Clooney's recent Good Night, and Good Luck, or perhaps All the Presidents Men...

Alas, the foresight possessed by the creators of Network make it a shoe-in for me. Whatever crystal ball they were gazing into during production....

Thoughts?


Oh and, Hi Viddy! Long time no see.... Hope all is well. :)

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Well, not exactly. I do agree that if you interview eyewitnesses to an event, you're likely to get some discrepancies, but most people will agree about the main things they saw. If you're talking about a political or social event, there likely will be written records, speeches delivered, news reports of the event, invitations and instructions, photographs. If it's a battle, there is evidence of troop movements in the paths left behind by marching feet or hundreds of horses or vehicles. Equipment is lost, trash is discarded. And again there are written reports, supply requested, troop movements ordered, plans drawn up, drawings, photos. After the battle reports are made by commanders of companies, battalions, regiments, groups, armies. Casualties are reported and treated, prisoners are disposed of, arms are recovered, news is reported, diaries are written, as are memoirs after the war. All of these things are studied and reviewed, debated and disputed by historians for years and years, and in the end they usually have a good idea of what really occurred.

No, they won't know everything that happened to every soldier, but historians will have a good feel for the ebb and flow of a battle or the decisive issues in an election or the turning point in a political campaign They certainly will know when repeating rifles were first used and how long it would take to load and fire a muzzle-loading musket. A lot of reenactors were laughing as they counted how many times Mel Gibson fired without reloading his single-shot musket in The Patriot. Many Scotsmen also giggled at Gibson wearing kilts and painting his face blue in Braveheart, which was not historically accurate for that period. I grant you, that's not going to bother most moviegoers. Yet it needlessly alienates a lot of us who know better, when the producer/director could just as easily done it correctly from the start.


Now that's a valid reason for using movies to illustrate history. But only as illustration. And only if the teacher first tells students, "Now look for these historical elements in the film and notice these inaccuracies and mistakes."

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

The Right Stuff
Band of Brothers
12 Angry Men
Hotel Rwanda
Saints and Soldiers

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

I've never seen Network so I can't comment on it. From what I understand, it is to television news what Metropolis is to modern manufacturing. I wasn't impressed with All the President's Men: Watching it was like another day in the office, except I've never known a real working newsman who had a secretary fielding his calls. Except for the scene where they call a secretary out of her office so they can look at a file on her desk, I've used every other trick for getting information before that film was ever made. Good Night and Good Luck was a good recreation of Edward R. Murrow's takedown of "Tail-gunner Joe."

I gotta disagree with you about the media as "an incredibly powerful entity" with "massive influence on recent history." Speaking as an insider, it's too divided on one hand and too homogenized on the other. For instance, there are thousands of daily and weekly newspapers, magazines, wire services, television, radio, and online sources for any one group or type to dominate news reporting. Although there are no longer competing major dailies in any of the major US cities anymore, the remaining dailies compete with radio, television, magazines and wire services in reporting the news. Wire services like the Associated Press, United Press International, Reuthers, Dow Jones and others report the same events to all of the competing media, so the story you read in one newspaper generally agrees with what you hear on radio or see on TV. And even as the big daily papers have died off, the number of news sources available through TV and the internet have proliferated. If you think the traditional media isn't giving you the "real" story, you can hear competing versions on talk radio or read in in Internet blogs. The problem now is that there are so many news sources that it is harder than ever to process the news. You now can choose to hear only the news you want.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Malcom X
Amistad
JFK
Gettysberg
Casino

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Right. My point is that everything is media driven, and people's lives, to some extent, are defined by it. I am talking the media in general. I know people whose entire vocabulary consists of media references of one type or another. I mean, I go to have a drink at a bar, and people will spend the entire time I am there talking about favorite Seinfeld episodes, etc.

I really think the media in general is just a massive juggernaut that dominates every facet of many people's lives; obviously not mountain men, or Amish folk, but, you get my drift.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Hey Sedai. Yeah Network is a good call, but I need to see that again, as it's been about 4-5 years since I have.

Also, I hope to stop back from time to time. I'm mostly on at www.moviejustice.com and occasionally at RottenTomatoes, but I really do like MoFo. And student teaching is keeping me busy beyond what I enjoy, but it goes with the territory I reckon.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Okay, I see where you're coming from now. I thought at first you were making the usual argument by conspiracy theorists and others that the media feeds out this Wag the Dog misinformation to influence our political outlook and votes.

Over the weekend, I watched one of my favorite films that is the essence of the electronic media's political influence--A Face in the Crowd, the best thing Andy Griffth ever did.

However, I realize now you're talking about about the wider preponderance of the general media that gives us our sports, news, music, fashion, politics, education, religion, you name it. Obviously most of the things we think about or talk about is based on information at least provided, if not also shaped, by the media, be it radio, television, print, film, or computer program.

It was remarkable to see how fresh and modern A Face In the Crowd still is today. Walter Mathau's closing remarks to Andy Griffith as "Lonesome" Rhodes. could have been a prediction for Don Imus. "Oh, you'll be back on the air," Mathau says. "After things cool down, someone will take a chance on you again because you'll still have a certain following. But this time it won't be quite as big or as upscale. You'll have lost something. And there will be more competition, younger versions of 'Lonesome' Rhodes anxious to make their market. And finally someday someone will say, 'Whatever happened to--what was his name? You know, the guy who was so popular a few years ago! How could I forget the name of someone who used to be as big as he was!"

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Okay, I realize I haven't posted on here in forever, but I have to weigh in:

He didn't buy it during a lunch break, he specifically says that he went out walking the night before in the boy's neighborhood (the trial had gone on for nearly a week before, I believe), went into a pawnshop, and bought the knife; it cost $5 dollars. Now, one could argue that he might not have been allowed to enter the court with a switchblade, but I have a feeling that security was probably a lot less strict back then, and for obvious reasons.

Edit:

They brought the murder weapon in: One of the jurors stabbed it into the table, and then Fonda opened his own knife and stabbed it down in next to it; you can tell which one's which because the murder weapon has a tag attached to it.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

The Last of the Mohicans (1992 - Michael Mann)
The Grapes of Wrath (1940 - John Ford)
The Thin Red Line (1998 - Terrence Malick)
The Corporation (2003 - Mark Achbar and Jennifer Abbott)
La Battaglia di Algeri (1966 - Gillo Pontecorvo)

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

The Fog of War
Welcome to Dongmakgol
This is England
Mississippi Burning
The Grapes of Wrath

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Christine, i've seen Welcome to Dongmakgol on DVD and read good things, not sold on it yet though. It good then?

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

you mean you've seen it and not liked it or seen that it's on dvd but not bought it yet?
Anyway yeah, I really liked it . You've read the storyline yeah? well I had too but I wasn't prepared for being quite so entranced by the villagers and their other-worldliness. Kind of a naive world in total contrast to the brutality of the war outside which is dividing their country and which they know nothing of.
Nice, charming humour too, and some maybe unintended with the stilted dialogue of the American characters.
Well worth seeing imo

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Meant i've seen the DVD in shops. I've got an exam with a question on Korean cinema so reckon i'll hunt this one down, cheers. Btw, seen Sopyanje (sp?)?

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Now that you mention it, I recall the evidence tag. It's been a long while since I saw that film and my recollection was that the case had just gone to the jury and that the Fonda character had gotten the duplicate switchblade when they had gone to lunch before being sequestered in the jury room. (It's hard to believe it would have taken a week to try the case with only a couple of witnesses. When I used to cover the police and court beats, this was what we then referred to as a "misdemeanor murder" with a victim and suspect of no particular social "importance" always poor, usually a minority, who usually would plead out for a lighter sentence. Even when such a case made it to court, it usually was tried and decided in one day, sometimes one afternoon.) Regardless of where or when he got the switchblade, the rules of evidence stipulate that jurors can consider only evidence introduced into the courtroom during the trial, which would rule out the knife Fonda's character brought in. In Texas (and likely the other 49 states as well), that would have been grounds for a mistrial.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

I'm absolutely positive that he said he bought it during a walk in the boy's neighborhood at night. I'm not sure why the case took so long, although it might have something to do with the fact that if the boy was found guilty, he'd be executed.

Anyway, I realize that technically speaking, if someone wanted to tip over the whole case, they could've made a fuss about Fonda using the knife as a form of evidence, but the only person I can imagine wanting to do that is the guy who wanted to get to his ballgame, and it's a possibility that he didn't know. The rest either wanted the boy acquitted or killed enough not to do anything about it, I think. What I'm basically saying is that it's entirely possible that they just plainly broke the rules, and it's very possible, considering Fonda bought a switchblade, illegal at the time.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Many--perhaps even most--movie plots hinge on something that couldn't, wouldn't, or shouldn't happen in real life and that requires some "suspension of disbelief" on the part of the audience in order to make the movie work. Fonda's character bringing in the duplicate switchblade is just such a device. Courtroom procedure always takes a beating in the movies. You always see the defense attorney or the prosecutor call a witness to the stand, ask some questions, and then tell the witness to step down. Wrong! Once a witness takes the stand, both sides get an equal chance for examination, but only the judge can excuse the witness when testimony is finished. But movies are make-believe and don't have to stick to the rules.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

My daughter and I watched All's Quiet On the Western Front this year specifically as part of the study she did of WW1.

It's been remade more than once but we watched the original. I honestly expected her to find it unpleasantly anachronistic. As it turned out we really got into it. It's a great film and a wonderful story.

It's also one of the few films we felt that the extras were actually worth watching. The notes on the cast were great!

This film was recommended to me, the book too by a high school history teacher I met while on jury duty.

My daughter also read the book because she wanted to after seeing the film.


We also watched Good Night and Good Luck. It was surprisingly indicative of the current atmosphere living under the Bush Administration.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Very interesting post. I'd like to recommend 'Tintypes'. This was a photographed Broadway play shown on an educational program on a PBS channel. Mostly, satire with music it depicted life in America during the period 1890 - 1920. Not a nice play it was critical of different groups and individuals. On the plus side, it featured some very talented performers and the music ( songs from that period ) was good.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

It's not a movie but I made my kids watch the PBS show Colonial House, when it was on. We happened to be studying Colonial History at the time.

I've liked all of those house type shows they do. I think it makes history much more relate-able to us. My husband is a big history buff. I am not. So I'm always looking for new ways to interest the kids in history.

Ancient history we ALL love. It's the more modern history that makes us yawn.

There is a great little movie about a history teacher in a high school. He is a great teacher because he helps his class learn history hands on.

He predictably, gets a lot of resentment from the other teachers who are not as beloved. In the end this resentment is gone when they find out he has a terminal illness. It's a commercial film, not a documentary, but it's good and funny. I wish I could remember the title right now.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Glad you and your daughter read the book--The film was great, but the book is really tremendous, especially when the veteran home on leave goes back to his old school room and the teacher who talked him and his friends into enlisting and he tells the current students what hell war really is.

Years ago when I was in the army myself I found and read a series of novels written by another German about a fictional soldier in the German Army starting off in the peace time army between the two wars and proceeding through World War II. I think the title of the first book was "Good Pvt. Shultz" or something like that. The Shultz character is like most privates in most armies, just trying to get along without getting into trouble. And of course there's a sergeant of low IQ, self-serving ambition, and abusive character who makes the private's life hell although Shultz manages frequently to get back at him. What's really interesting is Shultz's worm's eye view of the Nazis rise to power in the German Army and the resulting war. Shultz remains a patriot without embrazing Nazism and does his duty while maintaining his own values and sense of right and wrong. It's a very good series of books, if you can find them.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Sounds interesting! I'll have to see if I can find them.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

1. Saving Private Ryan
2. The Grapes Of Wrath
3. Gettysburg (I know it was a TV miniseries but I think its very well done)
4. The Ox-Bow Incident (The old one with Henry Fonda)
5. Unforgiven

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

As someone who actually had to watch The Grapes of Wrath as part of a a high school class and who seriously didn't like it or Unforgiven, I'd have to say, please no. *L*

I haven't seen the others. Perhaps that's a good thing for me.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

I would recommend the movie 'the Wave' (1981). It's about a history teacher who tries to explain how so many people could have followed Hitler back in 1930-1950. To show how it works he setup a little experiment. There's a group of 'leader'-kids named 'the wave' and the rest is inferior. It's a good movie, and best of all: it's only 50 minutes, so it should fit in one lesson.
And I'd also recommend Der Untergang (2004, english title: downfall).

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

'All the King's Men' was on tcm yesterday. It was 'hollywood history', of course but worth seeing because it told about Huey Long in the 30s.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Gettysburg was a movie (Ken Burns' The Civil War was the mini-series).

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

What would you show?

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

I'd have to find a list and go over it. That's one reason why I've been watching this thread so closely. We are going to be doing US History this year. I will be studying this question very carefully. I don't expect movies to make up the bulk of our curriculum but a few might be fun if they aren't completely dreary.

I'm looking for ways to make history more interesting. They both find it rather dry. They also feel they've studied our country and state history "forever."

As stated in post 61 above, when we studied Colonial History one of the resources I used was the PBS show Colonial House. I find those sorts of shows to be something they can relate to. I enjoy seeing them as well.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Mel Gibsons first movie. I forgot the name.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

I'm curious which one you mean.

Maybe this link will help?

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000154/

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

- Band of Brothers
- Pearl Harbor
- World Trade Center and/or United 93
- Yankee Doodle Dandee
- JFK
- Saving Private Ryan
- National Treasure (maybe for the young ones, pretty educational with an entertaining twist)

- Schindler's List
- John Adams (the series)
- Flags of Our Fathers
- The War That Made America (the series)
- The Great Raid

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

I'm pretty shocked that To Kill A Mockingbird isn't on more lists.

1. To Kill A Mockingbird
2. Grapes of Wrath
3. Saving Private Ryan
4. Schindler's List
5. Malcolm X
5b. Gandhi

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

1. American History X
2. Schindler's List
3. Saving Private Ryan
4. Pearl Harbor
5. Band of Brothers

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Band of Brothers
To Kill a Mockingbird
Schindler's List
JFK
Malcolm x

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

American History X
Rambo I-IV
American Pie
Dumb and Dumber
Borat

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

1776
Glory
The Grapes of Wrath
The Best Years of Our Lives
The Right Stuff

I'd include several more with Native Americans if I could (Little Big Man, Dances With Wolves) and maybe even The Godfather.

Re: 5 Movies for an American History Class
 

Tora Tora Tora
Atomic Cafe
Saving Private Ryan
The Autobiography of Miss Jane Pittman
Sergeant York