Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

Right off the bat i should say that when it was announced that the origin story of planet of the apes was going to be made, i was less than enthusiastic to say the least.

Then it arrived, and blew me right away. Andy Serkis' portryal of Caeser was in a word, brilliant.

Now with the expected announcement of a followup to Rise, i find myself thinking..with expectations raised, if this film is maybe doomed before it begins.

My concerns chiefly is, well i can't think of another motion capture working actor that is on Serkis' level. And clearly to move the story along, that will be required.

Or will they do u think set the time-line several years after the rampage on the golden gate bridge, and bring in Rick Baker to do makeup and FX on actors?

The thing im looking most forward to i think is the circumstances of the different species of Simians evolving into the roles as seen in the original. ( Chimps are the lib scientists, Gorillas are military, Orangutans are theolical scholars and the like).

Post your thoughts.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

I'm betting on more of Andy Serkis, and I for one would enjoy that.I usually don't want to see more CGI, but in this case the effects in Rise were stunning, and I'd love to see more.

I think that a good story (and one I've heard they're considering) would be a full on war between the intelligent Apes and the remaining humans. I'd also like to see the Apes developing their new society. In the original Pierre Boulle novel, one of the things I loved was how Ape society was really a crude imitation of human society, doomed to fail because Apes had no creativity. I'd like to see the films go in that direction as well.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

Since they have shown Caesar to evolve, I don't think it's necessary for Caesar to be CGI anymore, I like the idea of Rick Baker coming in.

Other apes have been shown to be slow in evolving compared to Caesar, so the whole lot can be shown in CGI, it wouldn't bother me much as long as they do it well like in the first movie.

As for the storyline, considering the title I believe it could be right where it ended or maybe a decade or 2 later. Surviving humans battling it out with the apes, but like monkeypunch said it would be nice to see the Apes doomed & flawed unlike humans.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

They'll squeeze every penny off this that they can.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

I was the same when I heard of the reboot/remake. I was also the same when I was knocked sideways with how good it ended up being.

I can't see there being a progression from CGI back to practical makeup yet though, if ever tbh.
The origins of the current story, as you know from watching the current movie, is that the apes are evolving on a genetic level due to a disease created by humans. The evolution though, is mental, not physical.

And with Andy Serkis being back as Cesar, it'll more than likely be along the lines of him teaching his smart group of apes to talk and build and teach them various strategies and problem solving, so they can overthrow the humans who are fighting to stop them.

It'll take a few thousand years, maybe even a few million, to get to the point of apes being human-like, standing upright like men, walking like a human etc.
This'll be through the smart apes breeding over the period of a squillion years.


So my bet?... Two stories going on in Dawn...

1: A big war. Humans fighting the smart apes with Cesar on the frontline.
Humans don't want to lose what they have: Control of the planet.
Which is why I can see Cesar being a Teacher and a Military General in the apes' forces.
I reckon Koba will return as his right-hand-ape though, seeing as Koba is simply a smart yet brutally animalistic character.

2: The disease that is making apes smarter and killing off humans: Humans will have to find a reversal to stop the apes' progressing and also to save themselves from dying off.
In the original stories remember, humans that were still alive (the survivors) were mute and had intelligence only a touch higher than standard apes.
Rise has already shown the disease spreading, Dawn will probably show the beginning routes of the progressive downfall of man.


One thing though...


... I'm well looking forward to it.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

I must have missed something in the film, cos I can't recall the virus at the end affecting the apes in anyway. I think I need to rewatch this.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

I don't understand the appeal of this movie...

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

Rise was amazing. Dawn will be even more amazing.

Some people don't understand the appeal of a fart either, whether it's from a mystical unicorn or not.

^I logged in just to +rep you, sir.

Also, yes. Bring on more Apes.

Comparing this film to a fart seems fair.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

Love the ideas on here. I hope Dawn lives up to Rise because Rupert Wyatt has a promising career if so.

I was floored by how good Rise of the Planet of the Apes was. I was not expecting such a good movie, and I have really high hopes for this one. So far away!

This talking about the men behind the FX really does spoil the enjoyment of the movie- it was the same with King KONG.
Such personailities should not be promoted to overshadow ones perception of these fantastical creatures, it is like showing how the trick is done, and spoiling the imaginations free reign.
Anyone behind these FX should be treated with a wage they deserve and thats that.
Why spoil the magic?

What is the difference between Serkis' performance as Cornelius, and Brad Pitt as Benjamin Button in your opinion?

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

Heh, Cornelius. Your memories of the originals are mingling with the remake.

One was meant to be a Monkey spoiled by references to Serkis being behind it.
The other a strange human, in quite a strange movie played in a ok , no complaints sort of way, by Brad Pitt

And my points on spoiling the magic, do not count in the instance of showing you how stop motion dinosaurs were created by Ray Harryhausen for instance.
Because they were made with human hands, and the fascination I get of wanting to see how, does not actually Spoil the magic of watching them in the fantasy movies they were used , but being reminded that every expression, movement and dramatic reaction of Cornelius or King Kong is Andy Serkis does , spoil the magic.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

I think his point is that there's "magic" being spoiled either way; Serkis is not an ape, and Pitt isn't really an old man. So why is it okay to "spoil" one by honoring it and not the other? It's a good question.

Even leaving the question aside, though, I don't see how it spoils anything to hand out these awards. We all know they're effects, and we don't have to watch the how-to if we don't want to. Heck, even handing out awards for acting sort of "spoils" the performances, by that logic.

That's like asking why actors have their names on the posters or in the credits...


... Bale is the Batman character. Does it take away from the believablity of the Batman character?

Brad Pitt is the Achilles character. Again, does it stop the audience from watching the character on the screen?

Arnuhld Svartzuhneygger is Duh Derminaider... and so on...

-Andy Serkis is an actor that has played Golum, King Kong and Caesar.
Just because he's in a funny looking wetsuit with white golfballs stuck all over it... doesn't mean he should be removed from the credits or not have the same respect given to him for his work.

Again you jump to false conclusions.

Batman is man in a cape and mask
Achilles was a man.
King Kong is an oversized Ape.
Golum is meant to be a a golum , not Andy Sirkis!
Believability in cinema is crucial, as in acting.
To destroy your films believability by destroying the audiences perception of your characters, is just plain dumb.

What is the point at reaching the seeming zenith of affective SFX for the reason of wanting to blow away the audiences minds, with great SFX creations in movies.
Then destroying all the affectiveness of your creations, by constantly harping on about Andy Serkis being the creations ? to the point all they think of is him?

I WOULD CREDIT HIM
BUT BY A MYSTERIOUS ACRONYM
like they do most movie jobs.

I certainly wouldn't keep making endless special edition tv slots or dvd slots,
that constantly point to him to be identified with the SFX CREATURES.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

Christian Bale is Christian Bale, not Batman.

Andy Serkis is Andy Serkis, not Gollum.

Actors cannot have hermetic careers, where they're only allowed to perform one role then retire in order to maintain a verisimilitude for that one role. Watching American Psycho, then Batman has the same effect as seeing Serkis on a press junket for The Hobbit. The whole nature of cinema is suspending disbelief, if you can't handle it with Serkis, not sure how you watch anything- it's not like during the film you see a side by side of him in the motion capture. You watch the film in THAT moment

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

Ok, explain why Ledger's Joker is considered the best and finest portrayal of the character, and has become something of a legend in the Batman Universe... even when most of the publicity was about Ledger's preparation for the role and his untimely death.

All the media hype over these things takes very little away from The Joker.



Your point of discrediting actors who use motion-capture suits is moot. If that was the case, surely then all actors, regardless of their role in production should be discredited for their work.

Many DVD features contain masses of interviews and documentaries on the actors in the film, not just the Serkis style actors but all the actors... but it takes nothing away from the character that's seen on screen. Why is it different for motion-capture?

Because men can become old but they cannot become monkeys.

But say if Brad Pitt was in a movie about a man who turned into a monkey,
then along comes Andy Sirkis who takes over the rest of the monkey part of the movie.
They then would go on and on, about Andy Sirkis played the part of the monkey it was him, his expressions his jumping around and his emotions . Isn't he wonderful?
Four hour special on Blu ray
ANDY SIRKIS WAS THE MONKEY MAN.

And then they not only end up destroying the monkey itself but they would destroy Brad Pitts character personality, of the human personaility behind the man who turned into a monkey, that he, a man, Brad Pitt, had tried to produce for the sake of the effectiveness on the viewer , all the way through the movie's earlier scenes !!
and destroy it!!
That's how annoying they are.

I would much prefer him playing the Queen or Thatcher, now that would be fun.

Are you f'n crazy?

Dude, get over it. This is the lamest gripe I've ever heard about movies. If you aren't satisfied with a movie for this reason, you've seriously got to cut down on the complacency-flavored Doritos. Life is so much better when you relax.

This is an arbitrary distinction. Both are fake. You're talking about the "magic" of making things that are not happening look like they're happening. The fact that they can happen, theoretically, has nothing to do with that.

Wow. :goof:

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

Oh, also: Brad Pitt didn't just play an old guy. He played an old giant man baby. Pretty sure men can't become that any more than they can become monkeys.

It was a meant to be human though.
Please dont try any longer, my argument is water tight.

Did this Giant Baby and old man appear to look like a giant baby version of and old man version of Brad Pitt?
I think you will find the answer is yes.
But did King Kong or Golum look like Andy Serkis?
NO is the answer.
wow:cool:

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

Sam Worthington was a blue 8ft tall alien by using motion capture and voiceover. He was also part robot once as well.

Should he be discredited from his movies for his work with motion-capture?

It was Brad Pitt though
visually in the movie
It was his face.

You must really have a problem with Pixar films. I pity you.

No because he is a man
Such human forms of aliens are based upon the shape of human men, and as the actor in the movie was playing the alien man shaped character, knowing it was him was obvious, and didn't spoil the character of the alien, because he was the alien's character.
Whereas, I have my own ideas about the personality of King Kong that i do not want spoilt, thank you very much.

Animated features are slightly different, Although Jeremy Irons in the Lion King did bother me a little at first, but i got over it. As did Tom hanks but i try to not let it get to me.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

But Apes have more in common with humans than fictional 8ft tall blue aliens from a planet called Pandora...

I really need some popcorn. This is fantastic.

Actually, it's leaking like a sieve. As I said, movie magic isn't fundamentally different based on the theoretical possibility of what you're doing. You have to suspend disbelief to think you're watching an intelligent ape, and you have to suspend disbelief to think Brad Pitt is actually a giant man baby. The fact that being old is possible has nothing to do with it: the "magic" is in taking someone who isn't old and making it look like they are.

Also, the movie isn't about "men becoming monkeys." It's about intelligent apes. And really, as if your opinion would change if we found a super intelligent ape.

True or false: everybody knows Brad Pitt doesn't look like that, and everybody knows apes aren't that intelligent. True, right? So there's no argument. We all know it's a trick. Maybe it's nice not to know how the trick is done, and if that's the case, hey, just don't watch Behind the Scenes featurettes. Problem solved.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

No it wasn't. It had makeup on it.

So...if you found out that the animators had designed Caesar by looking at photos of human men, you'd suddenly have no problem with it? What?

I like the fact is was him because he was the star and the character

Not so much, but they must have an Andy Sirkis pinup collection fetish.
Your point falls flat, doesnt it?

it was HIS role

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

If it does fall flat, you'll have to explain why. Rather than saying "Not so much."

This is such a hot mess. I love it. SIGGED.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

King Kong is the star of KING KONG.

I don't even.... wuh?

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

WHAT DOES THIS EVEN MEAN? Yes, it was his role. His role where he had to cover his face with a bunch of makeup. Sometimes, his character was CGI, too, early in the film.

It was Brad Pitt's role, but he had effects on top of it. Caesar was Andy Serkis' role, but he had effects on top of it. The difference is...?

You guys. You guys. Read this. I think he's got a point.

I didnt mean his name!
I meant his pretending to be King Kong in a monkey suit silliness.
Its all blah, so what stop spoiling my fun.

Ceaser is CEASER
I dont want Andy SirKi's face in my mind.
Brad Pitt is Brad Pitt

Look, here's the deal. If you won't look past a character and allow yourself to see the puppet pulling the strings, then you're hopelessly and blindly complacent. It doesn't matter if Sam Worthington's face is on a giant blue alien and Andy Serkis' face isn't on a giant ape. Without those actors, you don't have a movie to watch.

I want to frame this quote and put it alongside the similarly brilliant "King Kong is the star of KING KONG."

SirKi? Really?

Right. Which is why they titled the movie The Curious Case of Brad Pitt.

The point is a simple one, Brad Pit was the actor who had to make the unreal real using himself
King Kong is not real
and does not need reality spoiling it

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

No, he didn't do it himself. He did it with a bunch of makeup and CGI. If Brad Pitt had just walked on set and started hunching over and doing an old man voice, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have fooled anyone.

Do you get all excited when you watch, like Jurassic Park, and then disappointed when the credits start rolling and you realize it's not a real place?

This has been my point throughout, but it appears I've been conveniently ignored.
Whatever the role, whatever the character... there's always elements of make-up, CGI, costume, that give the actor what they need.

Discrediting Serkis because he's hidden behind CGI, is the same as discrediting Bale as Batman because Bale is behind an expensive bulletproof Batsuit that can fly.

BUT MEN CAN BECOME BATMEN. THEY CANNOT BECOME MONKEYS.

my argument is water tight.

Lol your missing my points on purpose.
Brad Pitt was the star
as was king kong

Ha! This should be a thing.

I loved that movie The Assassination of Brad Pitt by the Coward Casey Affleck, you guys.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

Are you actually wearing a clown suit, or do we all just think you are? THAT is the question.


Oh, King King was the star, was he? Have you chatted on the phone with ol' Kong recently? Went to his dinner party?

NEWS FLASH: KING KONG DOESN'T ACTUALLY EXIST

And he most certainly doesn't act in films.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

Discrediting Serkis because he's hidden behind CGI
I never said dont credit him
i mean just make his job mysterious

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

The Curious Case of Brad Pitt.
no it was a role where Brad pitt played the part of Benjamin Button
And he became it and was believed AS IT.
and that's ok because we all know actors are needed to make things believable.

But King Kong is not an actor!!!

"I am Kurt Douglas."

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/fi.../spartacus.jpg


And we can just go ahead and rename The Hobbit to Martin Freeman.

This spits in the face of his work. Just because you don't want to be aware of Andy Serkis' role in the film doesn't mean he should take a backseat in the credit roll. Get yer head out of yer keister, man!

God, I love this quote so much.

You need to start a petition to "make Andy Serkis' job more mysterious." I'd sign it.

How dare you. King Kong started with the Groundlings and worked his way up. He has suffered for his craft.

No, he's a character. Played by an actor. How else do you think they could create King Kong?

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

Andy Serkis 2011.
Wears a wetsuit covered in golf balls. Makes Monkey noises and says 4 words through the entire movie: "No!" and "Caesar is home"
Completely fake, seriously unbelievable.


Christopher Reeve 1978.
Bulletproof, fireproof, iceproof, can breathe in outer-space and can fly. He can also lift a car at the tender age of 18 months.
Totally believable... he was only in a costume and had a human face.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

You know, I was having a genuinely crappy morning. Slept terrible, ate too much ice cream last night, skipped breakfast, etc. But it's all better now. This has completely turned my day around.

The credit role is not the problem you phrased it like that
i mean all those docs on him visiting the zoo etc.
They get on my ****.
That Dinosaur stampede in king kong was crap
the legs were like bad drawings
Why didn't they re-do that ?

Then don't watch them! Jumpin' Jesus!

I'm right there with you. Can we give this guy a lightsaber for this?

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

I think some Anti-Shark Spray would be more convenient.

By imagination CGI and APES

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

Daniel Radcliffe and the Prisoner of Azkaban is most people's favourite Daniel Radcliffe flick.




This is a thing

And an actor.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

Imagination and CGI?

That's what they did for that Dinosaur stampede that you just hammered for looking too fake.

Yes if it is needed but please do not go on and on about him
advertising the fact and destroying King Kongs personality.

They should have got Andy Sirkis to do it then.
Or employed real artists who can draw.

This is what you don't get. It's you. YOU! It's a problem YOU have. Nobody else has this problem. We can look at Andy Serkis all day, and listen to him talk about how he was King Kong and see him in his little track suit acting like King Kong... and STILL enjoy King Kong. We're well-adjusted people!

Please, no more. My signature doesn't have room for all these incredible quotes.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/ent...07/serkis1.jpg

http://files.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/28754...pes-sequel.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2sdOp2vhCU...f-the-apes.jpg

http://uncoolghoul.files.wordpress.c...1/07/burns.gif

And Being John Malkovich stays exactly the same. Nice.

Speaking of which, I still haven't seen The Amazing Andrew Garfield. I hear it's only so-so.

I really want to ask him what happens when his girlfriend quotes Gollum's lines. Does he see Andy Serkis' face on her head?

Awkward.

Maybe your right, maybe i just find him irritating as a person.

Ahh, you beat me to it! :p

I've heard the same, but at least it can't be as bad as Tobey Maguire 3.

Sickening

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

Motion capture makes him want to throw-up, guys. Not cool.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

http://jordandiamond5.files.wordpres...olar-mocap.jpg

http://collider.com/wp-content/uploa...kis-tintin.jpg

http://www.geeksofdoom.com/GoD/img/2...31-avatar1.jpg

http://img.youtube.com/vi/1wK1Ixr-UmM/0.jpg

:(

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

Disgusting. How do you sleep at night?

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

Robopete.

Part Peter, Part Weller, All Actor.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

Maybe I'm just a f***ed up person, man.

There is no Santa Claus, guys. Sorry.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

Sure there is... his real name is Tim Allen.

I hear he actually got fat and grew out a white beard. No makeup or imagination CGI whatsoever.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

Those Reindeer really flew as well.

Again his character was that of santa clause,
he didn't have a hand stuck up his backside given all the credit.

Re: Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
 

CGI can be a star if you wish,
but that kind of defeats it's purpose if you ask me.

Yeah, but if he had, then that hand would have deserved all the credit (and I mean ALL of it) because without it, you have no character.

And let's not talk about sticking our hands up backsides, shall we?

Did King Kong ever dump on screen?

Tim Allen with a hand up his butt.

Think about that, people. Not an image I've ever wanted in my brain. It's there to stay now though!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--pIO9L0kGC...m-Allen-38.jpg

Erm... what?
:confused:


Random Post Of The Day goes to Medusa2012

I don't think you could have picked a better photo to illustrate this.