I get where you're coming from, but you should embrace any movie that gets an emotional response out of you. The most depressing films for me are ones where I don't feel anything at all.
Plenty of awards films fit that bill (Mr. Turner, Thin Red Line, Manchester by the Sea) but there is an ocean of commercial-tuned fluff with zero heart or soul put into them (Jurassic World, Avengers 2, Spectre, Ant Man, Rogue One, Hobbit Trilogy, Iron Man 3, Amazing Spiderman, Captain America 2) |
Originally Posted by Dani8 (Post 1650734)
Serious question because this comes up a lot on the other place but I never get an answer. Why exactly is 'oscar bait' seen as a bad thing? Doesn't bother me at all. Either does nepotism in hollyweed. They're cast and crew networking, not politicians IMO. I am open to both sides of the debate.
As for nepotism, it's sort of the same thing since the concept of a person's success being attributed more to their connections than their ability reflects the rather disagreeable idea that filmmaking is less an inherently artistic medium than it is a heavily commercialised industry. |
Originally Posted by meatwadsprite (Post 1651132)
I get where you're coming from, but you should embrace any movie that gets an emotional response out of you. The most depressing films for me are ones where I don't feel anything at all.
Plenty of awards films fit that bill (Mr. Turner, Thin Red Line, Manchester by the Sea) but there is an ocean of commercial-tuned fluff with zero heart or soul put into them (Jurassic World, Avengers 2, Spectre, Ant Man, Rogue One, Hobbit Trilogy, Iron Man 3, Amazing Spiderman, Captain America 2) |
Re: Why are Oscar movies so depressing
Eloquent answer, Iro. I appreciate that. Maybe down the track this needs it's own thread to flesh it out some more because it's very interesting IMO. Or if the OP doesn't mind we can keep discussing it in here.
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Originally Posted by Dani8 (Post 1651149)
Eloquent answer, Iro. I appreciate that. Maybe down the track this needs it's own thread to flesh it out some more because it's very interesting IMO. Or if the OP doesn't mind we can keep discussing it in here.
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Re: Why are Oscar movies so depressing
Ok so I'll continue on a bit unless the OP doesn't like the direction. I can't remember when I first saw 'Oscar bait' mentioned but I don't think it was long ago. To use an example The Danish Girl was bashed for being 'Oscar bait' and 'the hollywood gay agenda'. What do you think? To me it was just a beautiful, expensive film about two people going through a journey that doesn't necessarily have a happy ending. The gay agenda, as such, doesn't affect me; I just like seeing lush productions that make me think, feel, and do some research so historical, even loosely based, is going to prick up my ears. Flame and Citron, for example, has me sniffing around for references re Denmark in WWII. Danish Girl has me wanting to read the diaries. so in this sense, is 'award bait' a bad thing?
Make sense? |
Originally Posted by Iroquois (Post 1651141)
Would you consider getting angry at a movie's badness preferable to not feeling anything at all over a movie's badness?
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Originally Posted by Dani8 (Post 1651168)
Ok so I'll continue on a bit unless the OP doesn't like the direction. I can't remember when I first saw 'Oscar bait' mentioned but I don't think it was long ago. To use an example The Danish Girl was bashed for being 'Oscar bait' and 'the hollywood gay agenda'. What do you think? To me it was just a beautiful, expensive film about two people going through a journey that doesn't necessarily have a happy ending. The gay agenda, as such, doesn't affect me; I just like seeing lush productions that make me think, feel, and do some research so historical, even loosely based, is going to prick up my ears. Flame and Citron, for example, has me sniffing around for references re Denmark in WWII. Danish Girl has me wanting to read the diaries. so in this sense, is 'award bait' a bad thing?
Make sense?
Originally Posted by meatwadsprite (Post 1651198)
Sometimes. Movies that I really genuinely hate (The Room) are at least are a little bit more memorable than stuff that was just mildly mediocre. Although in the case of Human Centipede 2, I would prefer that the movie be removed from existence.
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Re: Why are Oscar movies so depressing
I have to mull over this a bit but good post. I don't have an opinion on a cisgender man playing a transitioning person anymore than if a gay man plays a straight man or vice versa. I have to ponder this some more. I know it caused a stir at the time, but the initial choice I believe was Nicole Kidman so yeah, I can see that he might have just been going for a 'Name'. I know Hopper consulted quite a few (dont remember numbers) trans people but I've never read an interview where he was asked how he went about the casting choice.
re Tropic Thunder with a white guy playing a black guy who is actually white, I actually thought that was a dig at the controversial skit of the Jackson Five on hey Hey it's Saturday Night. (you're aussie, I think?) You would have seen the fall out when the american singer on the panel called it racist. the guy playing Michael jackson with white skin foundation is actually a POC and he was dumbfounded. |
Re: Why are Oscar movies so depressing
Any actor should be allowed to play any role. Political Correctness will kill creativity and pigeon hold us with unnecessary labels.
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Re: Why are Oscar movies so depressing
That's the stance I tend to take as well, Rules. I also don't mind in reboots if a gender or ethnicity is changed. Not sure how I feel about an all women's ghostbusters or ocean's 11, though. Why not write a new story all together.
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Originally Posted by Citizen Rules (Post 1651600)
Any actor should be allowed to play any role. Political Correctness will kill creativity and pigeon hold us with unnecessary labels.
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Re: Why are Oscar movies so depressing
"Oscar bait" is a term thrown around a lot, but actually has some weight to it; there are indeed types of movies that get awarded more than others. For example, zero science fiction films have won Best Picture, and one horror film has won it (The Silence of The Lambs).
The Oscars also have a tendency to get Best Picture winners "wrong"; Annie Hall won over Star Wars, Jaws lost to One Flew Over The Cukoo's Nest, The English Patient beat both Fargo and Jerry Maguire, and Shakespeare in Love won over Saving Private Ryan. Even performances are subject to this; subtly loses a lot of the time, and not always for the right reasons. Why do you think performances about real people or those with diseases win so often? But despite this, it doesn't mean that the Academy is worthless, many of their decisions age well, like The Silence of The Lambs. Overall, the Acedemy isn't worthless, but needs to open its spectrum of what can be considered "award - worthy", and shake some of their bad habits. |
Re: Why are Oscar movies so depressing
Good post, Dex, but I would also ask, how much of it comes down to campaign dollars being thrown at them? Is this an urban myth or real?
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Originally Posted by Dani8 (Post 1651539)
I have to mull over this a bit but good post. I don't have an opinion on a cisgender man playing a transitioning person anymore than if a gay man plays a straight man or vice versa. I have to ponder this some more. I know it caused a stir at the time, but the initial choice I believe was Nicole Kidman so yeah, I can see that he might have just been going for a 'Name'. I know Hopper consulted quite a few (dont remember numbers) trans people but I've never read an interview where he was asked how he went about the casting choice.
re Tropic Thunder with a white guy playing a black guy who is actually white, I actually thought that was a dig at the controversial skit of the Jackson Five on hey Hey it's Saturday Night. (you're aussie, I think?) You would have seen the fall out when the american singer on the panel called it racist. the guy playing Michael jackson with white skin foundation is actually a POC and he was dumbfounded.
Originally Posted by Citizen Rules (Post 1651600)
Any actor should be allowed to play any role. Political Correctness will kill creativity and pigeon hold us with unnecessary labels.
But seriously, when people play the "being PC kills creativity" card I contend that there is a flip-side where being un-PC can also kill creativity by encouraging low standards and thoughtless complacency. In the examples cited, it goes beyond whether or not the creators are failing to appease the narrow standards of some restrictive boogeyman and into actively questioning how much they really care about making something that is artistically worthwhile. Dallas Buyers Club becomes an example of mediocrity for the reasons I mentioned above - namely, that its creators' decisions and justifications indicate ignorance and insincerity regarding the very issues that their film is supposed to address. This naturally reflects poorly on the film itself and ends up being further indication of how it comes across as a cynical exercise in award-baiting instead of a sincere dramatisation of an important and still-relevant true story. This isn't about imposing a rigid set of arbitrary standards onto every single film regardless of context, it's about actually thinking critically about what the film is doing and whether or not it can genuinely justify any choices that immediately stand out for the wrong reasons. It's not so much about reflexively saying "this is bad!" so much as asking "but how exactly is this supposed to be good?"
Originally Posted by Dani8 (Post 1651601)
That's the stance I tend to take as well, Rules. I also don't mind in reboots if a gender or ethnicity is changed. Not sure how I feel about an all women's ghostbusters or ocean's 11, though. Why not write a new story all together.
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Re: Why are Oscar movies so depressing
Give me Roadhouse over a Oscar movie anyday.
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Re: Why are Oscar movies so depressing
You have multiple Oscar-winning movies in your top 10 - but not Road House.
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Originally Posted by Iroquois (Post 1652332)
I didn't think that skit actually got any notoriety outside Australia, but both reflect a greater problem regarding blackface and the degrees to which people will consider it acceptable or unacceptable, whether for the sake of a novelty act or award-baiting grand-standing. Also, does one of the guys being a POC (which kind of POC exactly?) in whiteface really make the four white guys doing blackface acceptable? It comes across as a defensive measure, and unlike Tropic Thunder it doesn't even have some deliberately absurd satirical justification. I remember seeing some american panels bash it.
(which kind of POC exactly?)
in whiteface really make the four white guys doing blackface acceptable?
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